How can i bond with my mums dog?

[Rio and Me]

I knew Beth before we even got her, and never had a problem.
This may sound really bad but since she came to live with us, I cant stand her (I love all dogs shape and sizes) but this one dog ? ? ? i dont know there is somthing about her that i hate.
She's obedient (working sheepdog), good temp, pretty etc, i cant work it out, if she comes near me inside im screaming, i dont touch her if i can help it.
I walk her, feed her and groom her, but even then its hard.
I dont abuse her or hit her or shout at her but i cant stand her!
I really want to bond with her a grow to love her like i do any other dog.

Please any advise (nothing like consaling,lol)
Ky and Rio

[Rio and Me]

Please anyone??
Ky and Rio

[lbaker]

WOW, rather heavy situation :( but the first question I have is - how does she feel about YOU?? You feed her, groom her etc. Have you asked her how she feels? Or talked to her or read her a story? Don't give up, you know better than that .. man, good luck and keep us posted.

[binka_nugget]

I would just do what you're doing now. Feed, groom, walk etc. But just do it more. Training actually seems to help bonding as well. When we got Kaedyn, he drove me crazy for the first few weeks but we bonded nicely after we started training together and doing all the things you listed. It just takes time and an open mind. Start fresh and ignore the fact that you didn't like her before.

[lbaker]

I have six (use to be seven but the Cheeky One went to RB Dec. 2) Border Collie Ausie Shephard mix and they are verrrry smart but hard headed. Their eyes can be spooky but look behind those eyes. ahhhh

[Rio and Me]

I know its hard but I groom her once a day, feed her daily and walk her daily.
We've had her for about a year and its been the same all the way through, i thought and hoped this hate feeling would go.
I feel that she likes me and wants me to like her, she does the typical collie thing sits close and offers her paw, no matter how much i (it sounds horrid i know) ignore her she keeps offering her paw.
Allthough she was a top working collie she was a pet for about 6 years with no training kept up, yet every comand i give there is an instant response, she is so willing to please me, i just cant figure out this hate for her, it may not even be hate feeling but i dont know what else it could be.



Ky and Rio

[lbaker]

Ky, I know you said don't recommend seeing a shrink or anything but seriously dear.. this, from someone like you, is not right

[Rio and Me]

Well i will ignore your coment!
and delete my previous post
KY

[guster girl]

I don't think there's anything strange about believing in ghosts. But, if you don't like the dog, you don't like the dog. Why force it? I mean, if you were being mean to her, or abusing her or neglecting her, that would be different. But, as long as you take care of whatever responsibility your mother has placed on you as far as the care of the dog, then, that's the best you can do, IMO. That sucks that you don't dig her.

[Rio and Me]

I know what you mean but i would like to like her.
It's undiscriable the way i feel about her and i dont like it as i'm a total dog lover, our other dog i love too but this one its different.
Ky

[aly]

I guess I missed the ghost conversation.

I'm sorry I have no advice because I can't relate and don't understand why you have a feeling of hatred toward a dog.

All I can say is thank you for ignoring the dog instead of doing something worse like pushing her away or something. I know you'd never abuse a dog.

Sorry. Hope you work things out.

[3CaniBellisimi]

I don't abuse her or hit her or shout at her but i can't stand her!
and

I feel that she likes me and wants me to like her, she does the typical collie thing sits close and offers her paw, no matter how much i (it sounds horrid i know) ignore her she keeps offering her paw.

and


Why force it? I mean, if you were being mean to her, or abusing her or neglecting her, that would be different.

I am not trying to sound mean here and I want to tell you honestly how I feel here because my heart is breaking for this poor dog. And I sincerely feel empathy for you because you are feeling that there is something not quite right about this situation or else you wouldn't have posted asking for opinions. It sounds like deep down inside you know that this situation is somewhat out of control and heavy, and maybe you are sharing it with us for input. It takes guts to admit to something so personal like this and I admire your courage to ask for opinions.

Sometimes the opinions of others aren't what one really hope to hear if they aren't in agreement with one's own idea's. And, I hope you won't be offended and won't shut out what I feel needs to be said.

First of all, I totally disagree that the way the dog is being treated is not abusive. It most DEFINITELY is emotionally abusive to the dog to withold affection from it.

Depriving a dog of the love, positive praise, and affection is a passive aggressive and cruel things to do to a companion animal. And it harms the animal just as much as physical beating or hitting the dog. Because although you aren't abusing its physical body and are meeting its physical needs for food and shelter, you are abusing this animal by being averse to its presence and by witholding your love, affection, petting, etc.

The animal senses the lack of love and just tries harder and harder to please the human and it ruins the dog's spirit just like a parent doing the same to a child would mess up the child. It IS ABUSIVE even though it is not hitting or beating. And if the animal sees you being nice and sweet to another dog while you don't treat it as well as you could/should, then the dog gets upset that you play favorites. And, this kind of treatment of the dog is being mean to the dog and is definitely a form of emotional abuse and emotional neglect. You are breaking this dog's heart and weighing down its spirit.

Just your feeling jumpy around the dog -- the dog surely senses that and just keeps trying harder to please you. The dog is trying so hard to please you by promptly obeying commands to show you it wants to be friends. And you are blowing the dog off by witholding your love. The sad fact is, this dog will never please you and will never meet your expectations because it cannot talk you out of what you have associated this dog with. It is up to you to change this situation if you really want to make it better for yourself and for this dog.

It sounds like you have associated this dog's barking with the paranormal and this fear is taking over you and causing you to treat this poor dog in a way that it sounds like you haven't treated other dogs. You admit that ghosts are something you are scared of. You said that this dog has made your safe place not safe anymore. You are blaming the dog for something over which it has no control; if it saw something paranormal and barked-- the dog has no control over seeing such a thing. You aren't mad that he barked -- you are mad that you don't feel safe anymore and you want to blame the dog. As a result, you are in essence making a scape goat out of him.

If the dog barks to protect you -- doesn't that say that the dog cares about you and loves you? If he truly is barking at a ghost, it isn't his fault. Instead of taking on the ghost or your fear of a ghost, you are taking out your fear on an innocent dog who doesn't deserve this.

There are ways to get over phobias and deal with them in a way that doesn't damage those around you. I'm not trying to be mean when I tell you that you are damaging this dog's esteem with your behavior towards it. If the possibility of a ghost unsettles you to the point that it is causing you to behave in a way that you wouldn't ordinarily behave towards a dog, then perhaps you should confront the ghost or your fear of a potential ghost?

You could invite over one of those paranormal people to drive the ghost from your home and then wouldn't you be free to love this dog like it deserves to be loved? OR, invite a priest or some spiritual person to bless and protect your home to make it safe. Have them bless the dog too. Maybe some type of blessing ritual that will make you feel like there is a new start? Maybe it could allow you to feel inner peace, confidence in your safety that you are protected so that you can start healing from the scare and feel more positively towards this dog. I can tell by your description of this dog's behavior that it wants desperately to be loved by you and approved of by you. If this presence you attribute to a ghost isn't attacking you or ripping your home apart, perhaps you could confront your fear head on and make peace with this presence so that it doesn't unsettle you and take away your control in your own household? After all, who is in charge here, you or the ghost? You have alot more power than you are giving yourself credit for here.

If you can't love this dog, you should not be subjecting the dog to emotional neglect by ignoring its emotional well being while safeguarding your phobia. It hurts the dogs feelings and its emotional well being. A dog can only take this kind of thing for so long before it either gives up with a broken heart/broken spirit and becomes sick or it starts acting out with behavioral issues.

I really hope you will do something to make peace with this dog and so that you have the peace of mind to be calm and at ease in your own home. You do not deserve to feel this rattled in your own home. Perhaps you could focus on making your home a sanctuary and take comfort in the dog's love and protection for you. Perhaps you could try having a spiritual person confront this ghost so that you are free to love this dog. Or, if it is a paralyzing phobia that is consuming you, there are counselors who can help you turn this situation around so that it doesn't have total power over you.

I do sincerely wish you well.

Best regards,
Anna Lisa

[guster girl]

Originally posted by 3CaniBellisimi
.

First of all, I totally disagree that the way the dog is being treated is not abusive. It most DEFINITELY is emotionally abusive to the dog to withold affection from it.

Depriving a dog of the love, positive praise, and affection is a passive aggressive and cruel things to do to a companion animal. And it harms the animal just as much as physical beating or hitting the dog. Because although you aren't abusing its physical body and are meeting its physical needs for food and shelter, you are abusing this animal by being averse to its presence and by witholding your love, affection, petting, etc.



I was under the impression that this is the mother's dog, and, I'm assuming (hoping) that the dog is getting love and affection from her. Ky did say that she brushes the dog, walks the dog, etc. If the dog is being neglected emotionally in the household by everyone, then that's different. That's all I was saying. I agree with what you say, though. I do feel badly for both Ky and the dog. :(

[aly]

Originally posted by guster girl
I was under the impression that this is the mother's dog, and, I'm assuming (hoping) that the dog is getting love and affection from her. Ky did say that she brushes the dog, walks the dog, etc. If the dog is being neglected emotionally in the household by everyone, then that's different. That's all I was saying. I agree with what you say, though. I do feel badly for both Ky and the dog. :(

Thats the impression I was under also. I totally agree it would be a different situation if it was her dog and getting no attention elsewhere.

[guster girl]

Yeah, I was under the impression that she was not the primary person for that dog, and, she already does quite a bit with the dog, as far as grooming, walking, etc. That's more than a lot of people would do with their mother's dog. ya know? I don't know the whole situation though. It does sound like, for whatever reason, the dog is really trying to be friends with her. I wonder, and, this is to Ky, does she do the paw thing with other people in the household? What is her relationship with the other people and with the other dog? Who spends the most time with her? This situation just sounds sad, but, it doesn't seem like we know enough about it to really give good advice.

[3CaniBellisimi]

Hello All,

Here is how I'm assessing the posts: In the first post from Ky, she was asking for help because she feared she "hated" Beth, the dog who is her mother's dog. Unfortunately, in that 1st post, KY didn't really go into what exactly was the root cause for her discomfort with Beth the dog and no one was replying to her post. It wasn't until she asked for help a 2nd time, that she got some answers and some requests to be more specific. In response to another poster, Ky detailed a situation of how Ky has linked this dog's barking at night to a ghost that supposedly used to haunt the house in which Beth the dog used to live.

Until that "ghost post", KY didn't identify a specific trigger for her feelings associated with the dog. And when a poster suggested a shrink/psychiatric help was in order, Ky seemed to get upset or embarassed and deleted the ghost post. She also said she'd ignore the poster's sugestion of psychiatric counseling. It is unfortunate that the ghost post got deleted because it seemed like they represented Ky's honest feelings and assessment of this situation. That particular post provided much more background and clarity to this situation than is apparent if you view the thread after that post was deleted.

I get the impression that KY lives with her mother. And from Ky's posts, I got the impression that the dog Beth lived in another household until Ky's mother took in the dog. And if Ky is walking, and grooming, feeding the dog and living in the same household with it, if the dog's presence unsettles KY to this great extent, then you had better believe that the dog is being affected by it too. If Ky is spending that much time with the dog, her witholding of affection towards it most likely impacts the dog.

I feel really bad for KY and believe her when she said she wanted help with this situation and wanted our advice. I was hoping that she reads our postings and I hope that they speak to her heart. It isn't to pick on KY or tell her nasty stuff to make her feel bad. Ky herself was questioning why she is treating the dog in this fashion and that seems healthy to me -- like she realizes it isn't the best way and maybe there is another way?

It seems to me like we should offer some solutions for her to make the situation more peaceful and positive for all involved. That is what I was hoping to accomplish with my previous post -- to get her attention and offer some suggestions to challenge the phobia and heal things with the dog.

I think we are on the wrong track here if we are talking about how much abuse and by whom is too much for a dog to take. Who cares if the the abuse isn't coming from the person who is the dog's registered owner if it is happening in the same household? Even if it wasn't in the same household, would anyone here tolerate a neighbor abusing their pet? Abuse is abuse and talking about how much is minimal or expected just discounts the severity of the situation. Just because the postings in this thread might have caused discomfort to some of us, I think we would be doing a diservice to KY and to her dog if we aren't honest.

If you hired a dog sitter to walk, feed, and groom your dog, would you tolerate that sitter being emotionally abusive to your pet (even though they did feed,groom and walk the dog)? You wouldn't tolerate it because sometimes emotional abuse is a stepping stone that can easily escalate to verbal and physical mistreatment. If you had a teenage or young adult child in their 20s living at home who was having conflicted feelings, intense fear of ghosts, and exhibiting emotionally abusive behavior to your family pet...would you tolerate that situation? I hope not. I hope you'd love your daughter and offer help, guidance, and find away to make it healthy for the daughter and the pet's mental health too. Maybe KY's mom isn't aware of the situation but KY brought it to this forum to us and asked us to provide feedback. Maybe KY doesn't want to hear some of what we have to say but I think we can provide the honest feedback she herself requested.

Make no mistake, witholding affection is a vicious form of abuse. Ask any mental health professional what that will do to a child in a home where affection is witheld -- they will tell you (without hedging on the answer) that deliberately witholding affection is abuse.

And no, I don't think KY is crazy. I think she sounds confused, upset, and has alot of fear behind her behavior. And I think she is transferring that onto the dog. I also think she can be a caring individual because she recognizes that she doesn't treat other dogs in this fashion and so she is trying to assess her responsibility in this particular situation.

If she really does NOT want our sincere advice, then there isn't much that can be done. Perhaps she will take our advice to heart and decide that she doesn't want to treat the dog in this fashion anymore.

There is nothing new about this type of dynamic with pets -- people have linked superstition and paranormal things to their pets for centuries. Unfortunately, black cats and pets have paid the price for when this type of dynamic gets out of hand. If fear takes over and rules a person's judgement, it can contribute to a person doing things which they may later regret or question.

I hope that KY, the dog, and her family make some changes so that this situation doesn't continue.

Best wishes to all,
Anna Lisa

[aly]

Anna Lisa,

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to share your concerns and insightful advice. I agree with you and hope your posts will help Ky out.

[K9soul]

I'm rather stumped on any actual advice to offer here, but wanted to share a few thoughts.

When I had to live with my mother-in-law for a time, I had to send one of my dogs, Cody (RB) to live with someone else for a time because she could only have two dogs in the house and she already had a sheltie named Devon. I chose Cody as the one to live apart rather than Willie because Cody bonded more easily with anyone and everyone, Willie and I were much more inseparable. Anyway, I noticed after awhile that I felt more detached and unenthusiastic with Devon than I usually felt around dogs. Though I did not feel hatred towards him, I definitely had a feeling of "he's not one of mine" and became more easily aggravated with the doggie things he did, like when he chewed up a piece of my clothing, woke me up at 5 a.m. weekend mornings barking wildly at the paper boy, etc.

I explored my feelings of discomfort around him, and came to the conclusion that it was a mixture of things involving the situation that I was somewhat reflecting onto the dog. I think the biggest was that his presence caused me to have to be separated from Cody. The other thing that aggravated it was my mother-in-law, and brothers-in-law when they visited, indulged Devon a lot, letting him do things that my dogs were strictly not allowed to do, such as getting on furniture, etc.

I made an effort to help some of these feelings by taking over Devon's care quite a bit while I was there. I groomed him, walked him, fed him his evening meal. After awhile, I began to feel more maternal feelings towards him, I would get irritated to see people sneaking him treats of people food because he was already overweight. I took on training him better behavior as he was an incessant barker about anything, I started making him sit when ever he cut loose barking crazily. I also threw frisbee for him and worked on teaching him to come more reliably. Like everyone suggested previously, all of this really seemed to help me work through my own particular problem.

I think what this definitely shows though is it isn't just random dislike or hatred for the dog you are feeling, there is a cause that you associate with the dog and so project it onto the dog, without intending to at all of course. You don't WANT to dislike this dog, obviously. The only way I can see you working through it is finding the source, and working through the source. I am not sure how possible this would be for you though.

Have you spoken to your mother about your feelings any, or are you afraid to? If she's the understanding type who would listen to you, I think it could be a very helpful thing bringing this to her to talk about. She knows you personally the way none of us do, so she might have much greater insight to offer you. It really sounds to me like, deep down you want to take her paw when she offers it. It hurts you not to, and it hurts you to see her trying and yet just not feel what you want to feel, but right now there is something walling off your ability to feel and respond the way you normally would with a dog.

I wish I had more to offer you Ky, I truly wish the best for all involved in this situation. I know you must be tormented inside by it all.

[Rio and Me]

I think i may have figured it out???
Well i live with my mum, Beth is mums dog, Mizzy is my bro's dog (mizzy does nothing, craves nothing, like a large bear), Rio was here before beth so her being the "Top" dog getting all the attention, now beth is here Rio does like to share anything, people mostly, so rio is no longer top dog.
Rio see's beth as somthing she has to kept away from me (rios main provider of everything), so beth trys harder to get close and rio pushes her away harder, corsing fights now and then, rio is my angel and i take rios side therefore disliking beth.
Rio getts upset when i'm petting any other dog so i never had a chance to bond with beth because i was giving more attention to rio, sort of habbit of ignoring beth.
Also i gave beth a bath, groom and walk today and not once did i wounder why m i doing it, i enjoyed it, so the first step i think is to do more with her.
Thansk for the tips etc
Ky and Rio

[guster girl]

I really hope it works out for you and Beth. :) You can love both puppies. ;) Good luck!