BARF/Raw Diet

[veegan]

Im thinking about switching Brock to a raw food diet mainly because Ive heard from several people its healthier for EPI dogs and helps them absorb more nutrients. Some questions..

BARF is raw right?

What does BARF stand for anyway??

Are there other raw foods besides BARF?

Is raw a lot more expensive than kibble? (I buy higher priced kibble right now).

Do you have to do any preperation, or does it come ready to eat?

How do you know how much to feed/buy?

I have seen those little mini freezers of raw food at pet stores, but know nothing. How does it all work? Any links or tips/info would be much appreciated! Im completely clueless as you can see! Information please!

thanks very much!

[tomkatzid]

Bones And Raw Food

[guster girl]

I feed my dog homemade diets. BARF isn't a meal, it's just basically a way to feed, ya know? Like BARF is to kibble, not BARF is to Pedigree. Does that make sense? So, yeah, there's preparation involved, depending on what you feed. I have to puree veggies in a blender, but, other than that, it's just a matter of buying the food. I buy beef for stew, so, it's already chopped up and then I separate into containers and freeze them. I also freeze the veggie puree into containers, and, thaw daily what I need for Finn. And, there are tons of ways to feed raw food, and, a million (or more) sites on how to do it. there are books, too. the one I got is The Veterinarians' Guide to Natural Remedies for Dogs by Zucker. Talk to your vet, too. Especially because they know your pet(s). I feed my puppy over a pound of meat a day, plus veggies pureed, and, egg shell powder for calcium. But, he's also a growing puppy, about 13 weeks old, so, he actually has to eat a lot more now. I don't know how much cheaper it is than kibble, because honestly I haven't fed dog food in awhile. I know that it's worth it, though, regardless. I'll try to remember some of thes sites I've gone to for advice. If I remember, I'll post them. It's a good decision, though, you won't regret it.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by veegan


BARF is raw right?

Yes, I don't believe that BARFers useany cooked food. :)

What does BARF stand for anyway??
Bones and Raw Food, or Biologically Approriate Raw Food

Are there other raw foods besides BARF?
if you mean other raw diets, I'm sure there are, but BARF seems to be the one most relied upon.

Is raw a lot more expensive than kibble? (I buy higher priced kibble right now).
They say that it only costs a bit more than the high quality kibbles.

Do you have to do any preperation, or does it come ready to eat?
you can buy prepared packages in stores, but I think that most prefer to prepare it themselves. Maybe it's a price issue; I'm not too sure.

Shelteez and cali both do raw diets. They could help you out better than I can. :)

[tatsxxx11]

Pasted this from an "old" thread re: BARF. Check out the links below! If you are at all concerned that Brock might not be getting the complete "nutritional compliment" on raw meat and veggies alone, there is a "modified" version of the BARF diet using a great product, Sojouner Farm dry flakes, which is a nutritional supplement that is mixed in WITH raw or cooked meat and veggies/fruit. A link to their website is pasted below.

The "experts" claim that it is only COOKED bones that can injure your dog. Raw bones do not splinter like cooked ones do. And there's a lot of debate about the bacteria issue re: feeding raw meat. The experts also claim that a dog's gut is not adversely affected by salmonella and other such "toxic" organisms in the way that humans are. Persumably, dogs, since their early days as wild scavengers, have developed an immunity or tolerance to them. But most BARF advocates do encourage you to cook the meat (not bones) if you feel at all uncertain.

Here's a link to one of the more detailed Pet Talk thread's on the B.A.R.F. diet and a couple of more links to informative websites re: BARF! One is very pro BARF, the other decidely anti, so you can weight the pros and cons for yourself! Hope it helps!

Barf Thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22381&highlight=Barf)

Barf Support and FAQ (http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm)

Sojourner Farms/BARF Supplemental (http://www.sojos.com/products.cfm)

[guster girl]

One of the things I've continuously heard about the bacteria issue is that dogs don't keep food in their system for very long, so, supposedly bacteria doesn't have time to just sit around and cause problems. It's passed relatively swiftly, unlike humans. And, I didn't hear that about raw bones not splintering....hmmm... it's the one thing I'm not comfortable with. I've done a lot of reading, too, and, one of the things (supposedly) that kills wild dogs is splintered bones. I've been able to get past all my old preconceptions about diets for pets, except for the bone thing. I am cool with beef bones, but, the fowl bones just seem to be unsafe (although I know plenty of people that feed them and their dogs are fine). Anyway, I'm still looking for the sites I got some info from.

[wolfsoul]

One of the things I've continuously heard about the bacteria issue is that dogs don't keep food in their system for very long, so, supposedly bacteria doesn't have time to just sit around and cause problems. It's passed relatively swiftly, unlike humans. And, I didn't hear that about raw bones not splintering....hmmm... it's the one thing I'm not comfortable with.
For most dogs the bacteria passes through without harming the dog, but it can still affect some dogs. My aunt's golden retriever died from a bacterial infection in her intestines due to raw meat. :( Raw bones CAN splinter, it just doesn't happen very often because they are softer an more palatable. My GSD Leather had two raw pork bones at different times and each time she puked up splinters and blood after. You just have to watch your dog really carefully because anything can happen. I still think the BARF diet is a great diet, I just think people should be vigilant when feeding bones and whatnot.

[veegan]

thanks so much for all the input. I figured there was probably a thread on BARF someone would link me to- thanks!

I will look at the links and do a search myself.

[binka_nugget]

**It wouldnt hurt to answer this again right? :p


BARF is raw right?
Yes.


What does BARF stand for anyway??
Bones and raw foods/biologically appropriate raw food


Are there other raw foods besides BARF?
Barf is just a term for raw feeding. There are different ways of feeding raw. Some supplement, some don't. Some feed whole bones, some grind them up. Some give more veggies than others, etc.


Is raw a lot more expensive than kibble? (I buy higher priced kibble right now).
When we fed barf, it cost us $4 a week (feeding two dogs) for the prepared meat and veggies. Then it was an additional dollar or two per week for bones. It wasn't expensive at all. I actually think we saved money in the long run. I think if we had more space and bought bulk packages, we would have saved even more on it. It just depends on how good of a shopper you are. ;)


Do you have to do any preperation, or does it come ready to eat?
Some barfers make everything themselves. When I started out, I wasn't comfortable with preparing it all by myself so I bought prepared meat and veggies from "Mountain Dog Food". All I did was throw in organ meats, eggs and daily bones.


How do you know how much to feed/buy?
It's generally 2-3% of your dog's body weight. It fluctuates but that's the general amount.


I have seen those little mini freezers of raw food at pet stores, but know nothing. How does it all work? Any links or tips/info would be much appreciated! Im completely clueless as you can see! Information please!
Here's a good site that might help: http://www.simplyschnauzer.net/sshnnutrition.html#BARF

Lots of dogs do really well on this diet (including mine) but there are some who don't do well at all. It's important that you research as much as you can. I started researching last year and am still researching to this day. I fed my boys raw for about half a year and they did excellent but I somehow became really paranoid with the bones so I stopped and went to ask the vet questions and researched more. I think it's really important that you look for negative things that happened to raw fed dogs so you can educate yourself more and make a more informed decision.

Some good books to check out are:

Give your dog a bone
by Ian Billinghurst (it seems to be the bible of raw feeding but I know of some barfers who aren't a fan of his work)

Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats: The Ultimate Pet Diet
by Kymythy R. Schultze

Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats

Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health
by Tom Lonsdale

Home-Prepared Dog & Cat Diets: the Healthful Alternative
by Donald R. Strombeck

K9 Kitchen Your Dogs' Diet: The Truth Behind The Hype
by Monica Segal

Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog
by Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown, DVM

Raw Dog Food
by Carina Beth MacDonald

[Shelteez2]

Since everyone has answered most of your questions fairly well I will just pipe in with my links. I hope you like to read :D

Here is a really good FAQ site.
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

A site made by a lady who really knows her stuff. She would be a great person to contact if you have any questions.
http://www.rawdogranch.com/

As for cost most people find that if they shop around enough they are able to provide the food for cheaper than a high quality kibble.

I feed Innova to my dogs (and supplement with raw on the weekends) for less than $10.00/week.

If you use a premade raw diet then your costs will be higher than if you make it.

[NoahsMommy]

I feed my IBD cat, Micah a raw diet. I've found a pet store that actually sells it, frozen. I'll have to find the link for you, but basically he can now eat "Special" by Royal Canin without any symptoms now. SO worth a try. :)

[guster girl]

I know I'm spending way too much on meat for Finn. Can anyone give me any suggestions? He's eating over a pound of meat a day right now, and, he only weighs about 13.5 pounds! YIKES. Please, any advice would be nice! I'm all for the raw diet, and, I'll continue feeding him as much as he'll eat, without sacrificing his fitness, but, I'd love to save some dough. :)

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by guster girl
I know I'm spending way too much on meat for Finn. Can anyone give me any suggestions? He's eating over a pound of meat a day right now, and, he only weighs about 13.5 pounds! YIKES. Please, any advice would be nice! I'm all for the raw diet, and, I'll continue feeding him as much as he'll eat, without sacrificing his fitness, but, I'd love to save some dough. :)

:eek: WOW! That's alot of meat! Kai didn't even get close to a pound of meat a day. The costs of homecooking and barf really depend on how good a shopper you are. If you have room for it, you could save loads by buying bulk. When I get back to raw feeding, I want another freezer just for the dogs' food so I can save more by buying bulk.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by binka_nugget
:eek: WOW! That's alot of meat! Kai didn't even get close to a pound of meat a day. The costs of homecooking and barf really depend on how good a shopper you are. If you have room for it, you could save loads by buying bulk. When I get back to raw feeding, I want another freezer just for the dogs' food so I can save more by buying bulk.

Yeah, I know! But, Finn is not in the slightest bit chubby. Is it too much? He eats four meals a day, 1/4 pound meat, couple of spoonfuls of veggie puree, and, a spoonful of eggshell powder. And, he eats it in less than a minute. He's getting bigger, now, though, and, I'm actually going to make the meals bigger. Ugh. I'm a newbie to big dogs, not to raw food. So, my RB dog, Bruno, never ate enough for me to worry about buying in bulk. Where can I go to do that? We can get a freezer.

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by guster girl
Yeah, I know! But, Finn is not in the slightest bit chubby. Is it too much? He eats four meals a day, 1/4 pound meat, couple of spoonfuls of veggie puree, and, a spoonful of eggshell powder. And, he eats it in less than a minute. He's getting bigger, now, though, and, I'm actually going to make the meals bigger. Ugh. I'm a newbie to big dogs, not to raw food. So, my RB dog, Bruno, never ate enough for me to worry about buying in bulk. Where can I go to do that? We can get a freezer.

I'm not sure if it's too much..it's hard to say. I was reading a barf site that said that raw fed puppies should be fed more than they would be fed as adults. I guess that's because they're still growing. If he appears healthy, then I guess it's doing him good! Just be careful with the amount of other things he gets as well. If you add more meat, you want to balance it out with all the other stuff he gets. I can't remember, do you feed BARF or home cooked?

I'm not exactly sure where you'd go.. checking the phone book might be good. If you can find some local barfers/home cookers, they may be able to tell you about some good places. I was reading the site that Shelteez posted and noticed that she bought HUGE amounts at a time. I think she had some cases that were about 80 pounds or so.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by binka_nugget
I'm not sure if it's too much..it's hard to say. I was reading a barf site that said that raw fed puppies should be fed more than they would be fed as adults. I guess that's because they're still growing. If he appears healthy, then I guess it's doing him good! Just be careful with the amount of other things he gets as well. If you add more meat, you want to balance it out with all the other stuff he gets. I can't remember, do you feed BARF or home cooked?

I'm not exactly sure where you'd go.. checking the phone book might be good. If you can find some local barfers/home cookers, they may be able to tell you about some good places. I was reading the site that Shelteez posted and noticed that she bought HUGE amounts at a time. I think she had some cases that were about 80 pounds or so.

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how much more veggies to feed in comparison to the meat I'll be adding....and, the eggshell powder. And, yeah, I'd heard that as puppies they eat a lot more. Geez, I hope so. :)

Thanks for the advice. I kindof thought I might be hijacking this thread, but, then I thought the advice I get could be beneficial to Veegan, too. Hopefully, no one is offended by the offshoot here. Thanks for the info. :)

[veegan]

lol no it is perfectly fine guster girl! any and all info is helpful to me!

if I do end up going to a raw diet, I definitely think buying in bulk is a good idea! I know a lot of people do that for their own meals. I dont know how many of you have Costco, but I know its a great place to get meat in bulk. Its a great place to get ANYTHING in bulk for that matter, lol.

I just went to pet pros this afternoon to find out info about raw advantage (http://www.rawadvantagepetfood.com), its a pre-made/pre-packaged raw diet, made here in WA. However, for Brock, he'd need 3/4-1 lb a day, and one lb is anywhere from $5-$7! Thats like $150 a month minimum! So.. if I decide to do this, I will definitely be making it myself!!

[guster girl]

Originally posted by veegan
lol no it is perfectly fine guster girl! any and all info is helpful to me!

Cool. :) Yeah, and, I think buying in bulk is a great idea, too. I just really need to get out there and do some looking around. I know there's a Costco around here somewhere!