a weight on this kid's shoulders..... [Archive]

mugsy

03-01-2004, 04:17 PM

I'm sure I will get slammed for my opinion, but, as an educator, I support the office. Amazingly, we JUST had this discussion today in our faculty meeting!

Here's why I support it. If it is in the dress code that open shoulders are not allowed, then she should have had to change clothes. If you have a policy and let it go, then the whole discipline program goes out the window because it becomes, well you don't do anything about this, so why should it be different for this....

My question for the family is this..."If you put her in a private school, she'll wear a uniform. Why not have her dress in that manner for school?" And the statement she'll be teased is tired. Also, who CARES if they donated a piano and a fax machine....so, it's ok to bribe your way into breaking a school rule.

We actually discussed the possiblility of going to uniforms to stop the misbehavior. All of us have noticed that the kids are becoming more and more unruly and dress whatever way they please...girls in jeans cut so low you can see their crack when they sit down and shirts so short you can see their bras and everything so tight that it leaves nothing to the imagination. Guys were their pants around their ankles and muscle shirts yada yada and don't make me go there with those stupid doo rags. We have a no hat rule, but they argue non the less and often it's sprinkled with a lot of profanity. A lot of this can be prevented when the staff and adminstration work together to make sure the rules of the school are followed. And this particular school has the rule and the girl needs to follow it period...or face the consequences fax machine or not. As for the teacher that allowed her to take off the jacket was wrong to allow it. Perhaps they didn't know that the shirt had no shoulders, but, she should have been told to put it back on. Now my other question is why is a 6th grader wearing a shirt like that anyway? But, that's another thread.

This is just the opinion of an educator that deals with crap like this everyday. I realize it seems small, but, when you let the small stuff go, then the big stuff goes too.

catland

03-01-2004, 05:00 PM

the fact that the parents plan to sell the sweater on e-bay once this is all over kind of explains everything. Also, why did the mom want her to wear a code-violating piece of clothing to school?

Kids have always hated dress codes. Still, as long as the dress code is applied fairly - then she should have taken the lunchtime detention and called it a day.

cali

03-01-2004, 05:08 PM

while I understand where you are comming from mugsy, its still the teachers fault for allowing her to remove the jacket! the girl did everything she was asked, and she got permission to remove the jacket, that is the TEACHERS fault NOT the girls. they asked her to put on her jacket, she did that, she was hot after gym, asked if she could take off the jacket for a bit the teacher said yes, so she did, as soon as she did she got in trouble for not putting on her jacket when she DID. she was only given the detention and such for not complying and wearing her jacket when she DID comply and where her jacket. that is all the fault of the school NOT the girl.

mugsy

03-01-2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by cali
while I understand where you are comming from mugsy, its still the teachers fault for allowing her to remove the jacket! the girl did everything she was asked, and she got permission to remove the jacket, that is the TEACHERS fault NOT the girls. they asked her to put on her jacket, she did that, she was hot after gym, asked if she could take off the jacket for a bit the teacher said yes, so she did, as soon as she did she got in trouble for not putting on her jacket when she DID. she was only given the detention and such for not complying and wearing her jacket when she DID comply and where her jacket. that is all the fault of the school NOT the girl.

I'm going to respectfully disagree cali.....it's the parent's fault for allowing the girl to wear it and the girl's fault for wearing it to school in the first place. I did say that the teacher was wrong for allowing her to KEEP it off.

When it comes right down to it, we only know what is being reported by the press.

Karen

03-01-2004, 05:38 PM

I think the blame rests entirely on the parents' shoulders, pun intended.

1. For giving their daughter a garmet that they had to know violated dress code.

2. For permitting - even encouraging - her to wear it to school

3. For making such a big stink about it - that makes it more traumatic for their daughter

4. For giving her an "out" of switching to a private school - which teaches her that responsibility can be avoided by running away.

Beyond the parents, blame can be equally distributed, but they literally "started it" and are "prolonging it."

catland

03-01-2004, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by mugsy
When it comes right down to it, we only know what is being reported by the press.

yes - and since the press wants you to read/watch their news, they have to make you feel an emotion, in this case - outrage at an inflexible school system - and in order to feel that emotion they might choose to leave out annoying little facts that might stand in the way of this reaching the 6:00 news.

Important lesson in life for all students - life isn't always fair - and even though someone tells you its ok to do something, you can still get in trouble for it. You can whine or you can suck it up and move on. Too bad this girl didn't get this advice from her parents.

RICHARD

03-01-2004, 06:11 PM

A caller to a local talk show spent 35,000 dollars
to fight a case where his son was suspended for for six months for wearing cargo pants to school..

A stiff penalty????

The dress code forbid that kind of attire because the pockets could be used to hide weapons...
The laywers the father hired finally got the child into another school in the same district-because
they argued that back packs could be used to transport weapons onto a campus.

The host asked the father why such a stiff penalty for such a small offense....

The father explained that the kid was suspended THREE times, the first time for one day.....
The second time for three days and the final time for six months..

The last two times came about because the FATHER INSISTED THAT HIS SON STAND UP FOR HIS RIGHTS..

I am all for people's rights, freedom of speech and all the other things that make life and the world spin in an orderly direction but.....

Here is the 64,000 dollar question....

Why bother to make any kid obey any school rule?

---------------------

Now translate that into an ADULT situation...

At one of our facilities a lenghty and detailed memo was drawn up about a dress code...

No fingernails over a certain length, no nose rings, no multiple piercings on ears..no thong underwear and no colored/printed undies (For all nurses!)....no multihued hair styles and no crop tops..

One gal would show up with a pair of scrubs on and a crop top w/a sweater over it....her reasoning?

I work hard to get a stomach like that!

She wasn't pleased when they asked her to put on a scrub top and tuck it in.
--------------------

I remember teasing girls about wearing a bra-I went to a school where we wore uniforms and the best part was the late spring-early summer waterfights.....HUBBA HUBBA...those were the good days.....:rolleyes:

I think that they school district should have rules like that in place, It protects the gals and guys from themselves and the school districts from getting sued when kids cannot control themselves..

I am amazed that the parents, who obviously care enough to volunteer and support the daughter in her academic years, are so inflexible and unwilling to support the school and the rules.

mugsy

03-01-2004, 06:26 PM

From what I am gleaning from the article is that the parents are probably those that yell and complain when something happens to their daughter, but, because they volunteer and donate stuff to the school that whatever their daughter does is just fine.

These parents are teaching this girl a fine lesson now aren't they? :rolleyes:

I agree with Karen, although the girl needs to take responsibility for her actions also. I still wonder why the parents would buy that kind of sweater for a 6th grader anyway. Hello!!! And they wonder why kids are so sexually active today...it starts with the attitudes that pervade our society and the clothes that are now acceptable. 30 years ago the mini skirts were the scourge, but now, the mini skirt is no skirt, it's like underwear. I can't imagine it getting much more revealing before it's ok to wear nothing.

I know, I sound like a huge prude, but, I don't really care....I'm just tired of kids running their parents and the schools because the adults are afraid to do anything for fear the kids will call CPS.

Rottieluver45

03-01-2004, 06:36 PM

I think this is so dumb! I do NOT agree with the school board at all. It's stupid. Why do they have to make a big deal out of that. The girl wanted to look good. She probably wasn't trying to seduce anybody so- what's the big deal. And she even had permission from a teacher to take off her jacket.

The way they're describing the sweater doesn't even seem that bad- ooooo her shoulders were showing!! OMG!!!! :eek: :rolleyes:

I just don't get it!!!

RICHARD

03-01-2004, 06:53 PM

Two years ago Rita Wilson from the San Diego School District was demoted after she did a 'thong panty check' at a scool dance...

She asked the girls wearing dresses what kind of undies they were wearing and sent the 'thongies'
home -she also lifted the skirts on some ladies to make sure.....

Why?

FREAK DANCING!!!!! Yeah!!!

It's when the gal backs into the guy's groin and they simulate the "nawtee thing"..There were reports that the girls would lift their skirts and flash the crowd..

Now maybe Ms. Wilson was a bit too intense in her search for offenders, but why were the gals so hurt and offended by Wilson's search when they were gonna pull up their skirts anyway???

And why were the parents so mortified that the teacher would check on their children like that??
They were told NOT to wear thongs to the dance, yet some choose to do so anyway...

Now, had a gal been assaulted on the dance floor after showing her tushy to some immature 16-18 year old boy, who would have been to blame for letting these gals 'freak'....

"Good Old Ms. Wilson.........."

DENNIS!!!!!!!!!

CathyBogart

03-01-2004, 06:56 PM

Rules are rules. If they're made clear, why violate them and then get mad when you have to face the consequences.

Nomilynn

03-01-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by WolfChan
Rules are rules. If they're made clear, why violate them and then get mad when you have to face the consequences.

I totally agree here.

Also, in defence of the parents, they may not have known it was against dress code. When I was in highschool, there were (apparently) dress codes about backless shirts but when a girl got suspended for wearing one, NO one in the school knew they weren't allowed - not even her. Perhaps it should have been common sense, yes, but still - if there is a dress code it should have been accessible for all the students, and it wasn't.

Maybe instead of saying the girl had to wear a coat, the counsellor should have asked her to call her parents right then for a new shirt. Either way, for all the fuss it's caused, I don't understand why the girl didn't just serve her punishment, which really isn't THAT big of a deal (come on - lunch detention? She doesn't even have to stay late after school!!). Rules are rules.. while it may have been a misunderstanding, it still is a school rule.

cali

03-01-2004, 08:13 PM

I still side with the kid. so I showed my mom the artical as well and she laughed saying how stupid the school board is being. for heaven sakes what in heavens name is so relvieling about a turtle neck sweater with little ovals cut on the shoulders! I mean really I was wearing off the shoulder outfits in kindergarden, this girl is in grade 6, and is a TURTLE NECK. when I was in grades 3 and 4, I was wearing off the shoulder shirts to school,and I still do, even if they were not off the shoulder shirts I purposly wore them off the shoulder. why? simple its comfortable. school are going WAYYYYYY to far with dress codes latley, my school has gotten to the point where I own 3 outfits, the same ones for 2 years, because there is absolutly nothing sold in stores that is not against the dress code anymore. I have a total of 3 outfits because of it. I wish there were uniforms because it would be a he77 of a lot easier.

mugsy

03-01-2004, 08:27 PM

I'll just keep my mouth shut about dress codes...

I have no clue what that school does about dress code, but where I teach, the first week of school there are class meetings and the principal and asst principal read the handbook to every kid and every kid and parent are given the handbook when they register, so, no excuses. Usually, if the kids wears something against dress code (thinking they're cute and getting away with something) we make them go down to the gym and put on their gym clothes and they wear those until suitable attire is provided. We have stupid parents who argue about it and threaten to sue and they just tell them to go ahead. I just wish ALL schools would go to uniforms and then these ridiculous arguments go out the window and the students can just deal with it. Whine and cry all you want, but, that's the way it is. The argument would last about a week and then they'd be quiet and get on with the matter at hand. Let's face it, school is not about having a fashion show, it's about learning and the fewer distractions the better.

Nomilynn

03-01-2004, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by mugsy
I have no clue what that school does about dress code, but where I teach, the first week of school there are class meetings and the principal and asst principal read the handbook to every kid and every kid and parent are given the handbook when they register, so, no excuses.

We were given school planners on the first day of school. All it said about dress code was "no hats or gang attire" (whatever that means.. :rolleyes: ). Really, the school dress code should have been in the front of our planners, so everyone could read it.

Twisterdog

03-01-2004, 10:20 PM

I totally agree with Karen and Mugsy.

A rule is a rule. Period. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But you DO have to follow it.

I personally happen to think the 65 mile per hour speed limit on the highway between my town and the next town is STUPID ... especially since I got my turbo-charged car. ;) I want to go 80 miles per hours. Can I? NO. A rule is a rule. If I break the rule, I get a ticket, I pay a fine, my insurance premium goes up or my insurance company drops me. I am an adult, I still have to follow the rules. We ALL do.

Why is this little chickie so different? So special that rules do not apply to her? She's not. She broke a rule, she pays the price. Just like the rest of us. That is life.

If her parents and enough other parents think the dress code is stupid, then they have a recourse. Voters elect the school board, the school board makes the rules. If enough people want the rule changed, then they need to campaign and nominate school board candidates that think like they do. That is how you change something you don't like in a democracy. You VOTE. You don't whine and complain and sue. You vote. Plain and simple. Don't like this school board's rules? Well, the vote in a new school board. It's called democracy.

However, in the mean time, Ms. Sweater-Girl STILL has to follow the same rules that everyone else does. Period.

carole

03-01-2004, 10:28 PM

If you bend the rules for one, you have to for all, Rules are Rules,and should be adhered to, they should all have to wear uniform like here in NZ and then there would not be these problems.

catnapper

03-02-2004, 08:19 AM

This sounds very familiar. My husband is a 6th grade teacher and as Mugsy said, the first day of school there's rules spoken out loud, its sent home for parents to read and sign, and even posted in every teacher's room.

The dress code is very simple and very easy to follow: dark or tan slacks. no capris or shorts. No jeans. White shirt that covers chest, shoulders and belly. Sweaters are permitted, but cannot have hoods, no sweatshirts are allowed. No gang colors or symbols. No bandannas (a gang thing) White sneakers or shoes, no sandals. Now, I'm paraphrasing here, but its really that simple. He's got girls that are in 6th grade that have ample C-cups (really) and they flaunt those with very cleavage revealing shirts. He can't say anything because the parents would say that he was sexually harassing their daughter - "why else would he have noticed her boobs if he wasn't looking at them?" Its really bad. I went in to visit him for lunch a week ago and I was rather shocked at what these kids were wearing. 6th graders looked very sexy! I sure didn't look like that at 12, then again, we weren't allowed to wear make-up or clothing like that.

The schools are basically scared to say or do anything because of parents like that. A rule is a rule and everyone needs to follow them. I would say that the sweater described in the article was not in line with the dress code policy.

Ha! My husband just called me on the cell phone... he wanted me to go shopping for a size 8 pair of white sneakers for one of his students... they're cracking down on dress code and he wants to get her a pair before she gets into trouble. Ain't he sweet?

Logan

03-02-2004, 08:58 AM

The primary objective of Greenville County Schools is to provide a World-Class instructional program and learning opportunity for every student. The personal appearance of every student is an important component of establishing a safe environment for optimal learning and respect for one another.

Students are expected to dress in an appropriate manner while on school district property or representing the school. Personal appearance shall be such that it does not disrupt student work or school order, become distractive to other students, or violate health and safety guidelines.

The following minimum standards apply throughout Greenville County Schools and will be vigorously enforced. Principals may make additions to these standards.

Student dress and grooming must be neat and clean.
Middle and High Schools - Shirts/Blouses should be tucked in unless designed to be
worn outside the pants/skirt. At no time should the student’s midriff be visible while standing, sitting, or participating in normal school activities, e.g., raising hand.
Clothing that inappropriately exposes body parts is not permitted, including: low-cut shirts, tank tops, spaghetti strap tops, halter tops, and vests or see-through or mesh garments worn without shirts. Shoulder straps must be at least three inches wide. Bra straps and bra sides must not be visible.
Students shall not dress in such a way that partially or totally exposes underclothing.
Trousers/slacks/shorts must be worn at waist level. Excessively baggy trousers and clothing are not permitted. Clothing may not drag the floor.
Skirts should fit and be in good taste and not be shorter than mid-thigh.
Shorts may be worn, however, they must be properly fitted and in good taste and may not be shorter than mid-thigh. Biker shorts or athletic shorts of any kind are not permitted.
Hats, sunglasses, hair curlers, skullies, or do-rags may not be worn.
Shoes or sandals must be worn. Flip-flops (shower-type shoes) and thong-type shoes are not permitted.
Clothing or jewelry is not permitted that displays profanity, suggestive phrases, alcohol, tobacco, drug advertisements, or other inappropriate phrases or symbols.
Hair of a non-human color is not permitted.
Extraneous articles hanging from clothing such as chains are not permitted.
Facial jewelry is permitted to be worn only on the ears.
This was taken directly from our School District's web site. I appreciate the fact that they are being careful about how students dress. Molly, I am in total agreement with you and others on why rules like this are important, and that the punishment that this 6th grader received. I would like to challenge her parents, given the opportunity!

G.P.girl

03-02-2004, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by catnapper

The dress code is very simple and very easy to follow: dark or tan slacks. no capris or shorts. No jeans. White shirt that covers chest, shoulders and belly. Sweaters are permitted, but cannot have hoods, no sweatshirts are allowed. No gang colors or symbols. No bandannas (a gang thing) White sneakers or shoes, no sandals. Now, I'm paraphrasing here, but its really that simple. He's got girls that are in 6th grade that have ample C-cups (really) and they flaunt those with very cleavage revealing shirts. He can't say anything because the parents would say that he was sexually harassing their daughter - "why else would he have noticed her boobs if he wasn't looking at them?" Its really bad. I went in to visit him for lunch a week ago and I was rather shocked at what these kids were wearing. 6th graders looked very sexy! I sure didn't look like that at 12, then again, we weren't allowed to wear make-up or clothing like that.

what exactly are gang colors?:p that's a pretty harsh dress code!
my brother is in 5th grade and there this one "little" girl in his class and she wears bright blue eye shadow, glitter all over her face, dark eye liner...the whole works, it shocked me when i saw her i was liike "who's that kid with the dumbmake up?" to my brother and he was just like "oh that's my friend" :rolleyes:
i wasn't allowed to waear makeup when i was twelve! not that i really even wanted to, i don't even wear much make now either, only alittle eye shadow or mascara and stuff:cool:

catnapper

03-02-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by G.P.girl
what exactly are gang colors?:p that's a pretty harsh dress code!

Gang colors are, well, the colors that represent particular gangs in the area. For example, wearing a red shirt is fine... but red is a very well known gang color in the area, as is blue, purple, and yellow. So, that said, if you wer a red shirt simply because you happen to like red, hey, that's fine. But if you wear a red shirt as a banner to show solidarity to the gang, then thats a problem. Believe me, the schools know who is involved in gangs and who is not. Last month, my husband was saying that a girl wearing red every day was definately in a gang, then she handed in a project with this gang's symbols drawn all over it. I don't know how else to clarify.... the teachers can more or less tell by a kid's actions and attitude whether they are wearing a color because they like it or if they are wearing it for gang reasons. We definately have a real big gang problem here.

As for the dress code, no I don't think its harsh. I went to private school, so obviously my unfirom had to be exacting to their dress code. But this is an inner city school and the clothing problem has become very very bad. They want to try and make it mandatory black pants & white collared polo shirt for both boys and girls. I think it makes sense. That way, everyone is on a level playing field... nobody is showing off their wealth or poverty while the dress the same.

In my husband's middle school alone, there are over 1,300 kids from 6th-8th grade. There are 4 middle schools in the district, each with as many kids. Thats a lot of kids. They need a pretty straight-forward dress code in order to provide some order.

PS: not that this has anything to do with dress code directly, but a lot of my husband's sexier dressed girls are already <ahem> "active" and quite a few 6th-8th grade girls are waddling around pregnant. The school wants to get rid of the "temptation to play" while they are in school. The dress code needs to followed and needs to be rather strict to keep these kids from hurting each other. The hurt can be in forms of taunts because the kids can't afford nice clothes. Taunts of ethnic bias, taunts of calling a girl a Sleeze (well, they use stronger words not fit for me to type.) You'd be surprised what goes on in a large school. I was.

carole

03-02-2004, 02:13 PM

Believe me these dress codes are anything but harsh, Gosh in my day they were so darn strict, we had to have our skirts at a certain length, hair always tied up if past shoulders, etc etc, I am all for reasonable dress codes, sometimes the schools go overboard, like my friends daughter was just finishing her last year at middle school, only two weeks to go and they made her mother buy the PE shorts, now to me that is unfair, complete waste of her money, she has no further use for them, and could have worn her own shorts just for two weeks.

The kids here take pride in their uniforms(well most of them) and they are expected to be neat and tidy in uniform, they are ambassadors for their school , so why not..

I have no time for make-up and having to be in the height of fashion at school, the kids are there to learn not to compete with each other in the fashion department, there is plenty time in years to come for them to express their individuality, did me no harm, I have no problem dressing today,and feeling ok about myself, I don't think being in uniform stunted my individuality at all.

I say stick with the dress codes or get them in uniform, my feelings are very strong about this, more important things to worry about, like the safety at school today, whether our children are really getting a decent education ,etc etc.

P.S our children have a mufti day, one coming up this week, and have about 4 to 5 a year, they pay two dollars(this goes to the school or charity) and can wear their own clothes, jewellery etc, for that whole day.,so they still get the opportunity to display their Individuality.

Twisterdog

03-02-2004, 10:55 PM

quite a few 6th-8th grade girls are waddling around pregnant

*faints*

Pregnant 6th graders?!?!

:eek:

My son is in the 7th grade. I think I'll call my veterinarian tomorrow and see if he will neuter him.

;)

Sirrahsim

03-03-2004, 01:22 AM

I think that school uniforms are a good concept (though getting parents to freaking pay attention and care about what their kids are wearing would be better...) I went to a VERY conservative little private school from 8th-11th grade. The experience was a great one. I made a lot of friends and found that the classes weren't dumbed down for the masses as MANY public schools are *shudder*. There was a very strict dresscode the entire time I attended, and they ended up changing to uniforms my Junior year. My biggest gripe with uniforms and sometimes tight dresscodes is the cost. Do you know how difficult it is to FIND articles of clothing that adhere to a strict dresscode if you can't afford to buy all your clothing at stores such as Abercrombie? The school charged thousands of dollars a year for tuition but didn't even give a penny towards the insane cost of uniforms. They provided a catalogue, but I'm pretty sure it was from Land's End, so everything was enormously overpriced and not at all fitted to young shapes. I think that if a school is going to adopt a uniform code then they should at LEAST offer the clothing at a discounted price. Take the Air Force way for example- everyone has to wear the same thing from the same place, but we recieve a clothing allowance at least once a year to help out in the purchase of uniforms. I understand that part of the reason that the school charged so much was to make sure that only "serious" students attended, but come on, not all serious students can afford to spend all their money on freaking ugly clothes just so they can get a proper education. Don't even get me started on the policy that allowed for a teen father to stay in school while the pregnant teen was immediately expelled. If they're going to expel the girl they sure as anything should've expelled the guy too... *deep cleansing breaths*

Originally posted by catnapper
That way, everyone is on a level playing field... nobody is showing off their wealth or poverty while the dress the same.

By the way, at least in my experience this statement is completely false. There were two main subdivisions in the school- the students who could afford to buy their khakis and polo shirts at Abercrombie, American Eagle, Aeropostal, etc. And then those students who couldn't afford to spend $50+ on a polo shirt. In my experiences there, there was even more division into cliques when we had the uniform code as opposed to just a strict dress code.

popcornbird

03-03-2004, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Twisterdog
*faints*

Pregnant 6th graders?!?!

:eek:

Ditto. *faints* I can't imagine an 11 year old having a baby. :eek: I didn't even know that stuff at that age! I was such an innocent child.:o :p LOL

*faints again*

Sirrahsim

03-03-2004, 02:02 AM

I'm married and nearly 20 and I practically faint at the thought of someone my age having a baby!:rolleyes: :D :D :eek: :eek:

popcornbird

03-03-2004, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Sirrahsim
I'm married and nearly 20 and I practically faint at the thought of someone my age having a baby!:rolleyes: :D :D :eek: :eek:

Wow. You're already married at only 19? I faint at that thought too! :p

Just kidding. Only teasing you. ;):p

Sirrahsim

03-03-2004, 02:18 AM

lol :)
not to make you faint again or anything- but when I got married i was only 18 years and 7 months old :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :D :D

Pam

03-03-2004, 06:13 AM

I agree 110% with Mugsy. I think these two lines from your posts hit the nail on the head. ;)

This is just the opinion of an educator that deals with crap like this everyday. I realize it seems small, but, when you let the small stuff go, then the big stuff goes too.

These parents are teaching this girl a fine lesson now aren't they?

catnapper

03-03-2004, 09:13 AM

Ha Ha! I'm glad everyone is fainting around here!;) Its true! My husband intercepted a note from a girl to a boy two weeks ago... in it she described in detail what she wanted to do with him. It was very graphic.:eek: This may or may not be a direct result of dress code restrictions - you could plausibly argue it either way. I feel, as carol said, that kids are there for learning. Not for anything else and we seem to have lost sight of that.

My husband's school district does give discounts towards clothes because it is such an impoversihed district. Even the poorest kids somehow find themselves walking in Tommy Hifiger shirts - they'll just have one instead of eight. But that was THEIR choice to spend their money on one shirt over more.

As for my private school, they spelled out where to buy the clothes. It was Catholic school, so you all know what that uniform was like! We were not allowed to wear makeup, funky hair colors, or earrings that dangled. No rings or necklaces.

Yes, we had to pay for the uniform out of pocket, without any help from the school. But think of it this way: Most parents buy clothes for school throught the year. I spend an average of $200 per kid in September, a bit more at Christmas, and then again for spring clothes. I figure about $400 per kid a year - thats outside sports and their casual or dressy stuff... this is all stuff for them to wear to school. We're not buying extravagantly. I had three unifroms that I rotated and mom washed during the week. Each uniform today might cost $60 complete... so if I buy three, then my total cost per kid is $180. WOW that is a consderable savings! So I don't think the cost of uniforms should be considered as an issue.

sirrahsim: I thought you looked like a young-un!:D When you know its right, then why fight it? I took a bit longer, I was a month away from 28 when I got married.

carole

03-03-2004, 02:27 PM

I find the cost of the uniform cheap in comparison to buying clothes, as they want to look good and be fashionable like most of the other kids.

It cost us around 250 dollars to get the uniform for my daughter, and I will have to buy a jacket at 80 dollars and shoes for winter later on, but I still prefer uniform anyday.(you only get a subsidy if you are on welfare).

Funny thing today my daughter has mufti day, where she can wear her own clothes, etc, she choose to wear something very sensible, Nice jeans, top and long sleeved knit jacket, hairband, some jewellery, necklace, ring and braclet and earings, and when I asked if she wanted to wear some lip gloss or paint her nails, she said No, Interesting, as she normally likes to wear a little of these things when we go out somewhere special.I was very pleased with her choice of suitable clothing , it was not at all provocative in anyway.(not that she has many of those type of clothing , but half-tops are the fashion here, and many wear them.

I find it so hard to believe that kids can wear what they do at some of the schools in the states(just going by what some young PT people have said) parents just would not stand for it here, I know there are a few schools in NZ who do allow stuff like that, but few and far between.

To me school uniform stops competition, and let's face it the young girls are right into their fashion these day's, which is not all-over a bad thing, and its pretty hard to tell who is rich and who is poor, my daughter has a second hand skirt, and you cannot tell, it looks like brand new. This is the first year she has had uniform, and I for one am very glad.,it also means I can just buy her cool clothes for after school and going out, and not have to worry is it going to wear well etc etc, great burden lifted off my shoulders.

As for getting married young, my niece and her husband were 19 and 20 when they married, and my sister was only 19 too, and my mother 18, me I waited until 24 then 34 lol, personally I hope both my children wait until they are at least 28 or so, I want them to travel the world and have lots of fun before settling down.

RICHARD

03-03-2004, 02:43 PM

Since everyone has their pipes out.....

At the middle school up the street I saw a 12-14 year old girl with this shirt on....heading onto the campus....

Take me drunk, I'm home.

carole

03-03-2004, 02:51 PM

Good Grief you have to wonder just how much control these parents have over her don't you,? the t-shirt that gets me is the one with Bitch written on it, I cannot understand why any girl would want to wear that, there is one about barbie, can't remember it but its kinda funny. guess I am just getting old......sigh......:)

catnapper

03-03-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by carole
Good Grief you have to wonder just how much control these parents have over her don't you,? the t-shirt that gets me is the one with Bitch written on it, I cannot understand why any girl would want to wear that, there is one about barbie, can't remember it but its kinda funny. guess I am just getting old......sigh......:)

Ha! Ha! I think the Tee shirt says "I want to be like Barbie, the B$%*@ has everything."

LOL. My girls do have tees with Princess written across it. I don't mind those, its the ones where they do curse or say provocative things.

cali

03-03-2004, 03:48 PM

honestly I find those dress codes EXTREMLY harsh, I go to one of the top private schools around and those dress codes are worse then mine. :eek: I thought my dress code was bad because of other schools around here. but all the other schools around here the dress code is simply no clothing that adverises drugs or anything, no shorts or skirts above a certain length and thats it.

popcornbird

03-03-2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Sirrahsim
lol :)
not to make you faint again or anything- but when I got married i was only 18 years and 7 months old :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :D :D

*faints again* ;) He he

I know this girl who is 18, and got married at only 17. :eek: Personally I think that is WAY too young........but if she's happy, I guess its ok. :confused: Anyway, when I first met her, I asked her how old she was, and she said 17. Then she told me she just got married, etc. and I was sitting there, listening, like this........:eek:. Then I told her, *WOW! That is so young to get married. So young I think I'm going to faint!*

She told me she nearly fainted when she realized how young she was getting married herself. :o LOL

G.P.girl

03-03-2004, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by RICHARD

At the middle school up the street I saw a 12-14 year old girl with this shirt on....heading onto the campus....

Take me drunk, I'm home.
i didn't know you lived near me:p

my mom was 18 when she got married, she got divorced about 14 years later...shes always telling me school comes first and to go to college and get my degree THEN i can get married or whatever i want

carole

03-03-2004, 06:55 PM

Catnapper yes that's the t-shirt I mean't, I can kinda see the funny side of that one about barbie.

Cali you should come and live over here if you think your dress codes are harsh, count yourself lucky.

like I said before without sounding like a broken record, You are there to learn, not be a fashion statement.

I don't mean to sound harsh here Cali, but I have very strong views on this one, which is pretty obvious I think.:) nothing personal mean't ok.:)

RICHARD

03-03-2004, 07:14 PM

We had to wear...

a white shirt, blue necktie, t-shirt underneath, blue pants, black or blue socks, black shoes.

The school's emblem on the shirt pocket had to be centered, the neck tie HAD to touch the top of the
belt, it could not be shorter or longer.....

Your hair could not touch your collar, no jewelry unless it was a saint and even then you could not wear it out of the shirt.

Girls had to have a skirt no higher that 2 inches about the knee...LOL, watching the girls pull their skirts down to make the cut was hilarious!

MAKEUP??? VERBOTEN!!! none nada nothing....

Same regs except for the necktie..girls wore a little bow....

things have changed.......do not complain because there is nothing worse than a nun wailing the tar out of you because you forgot to put you clip on neck tie after P.E......

carole

03-03-2004, 07:22 PM

Hey Richard my husband went to a catholic(sp) school and them nun's were pretty harsh for sure, I sure ain't advocating let us go back to the good ole day's, some of the rules were ridiculous, let us have a nice inbetween, which I think is what most of the schools in NZ have achieved, BTW I had to wear a tie at school, no pretty bows for me, Aww see how underpriviliged I was!!! Boo Hoo!!

But seriously yes times have a changed, and I am all for that, but let us not go overboard, let us have some Rules that have to be adhered to .:)

mugsy

03-03-2004, 07:35 PM

As for pregos...in 1990, I taught for one semester at our alternative school and I had 3 pregnant 8th graders and one of them went into labor in class....that was interesting.

I do believe that the clothes make a difference in how the kids act. Sorry Cali, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Twisterdog

03-03-2004, 11:44 PM

I saw a shirt in a store the other day. It was a hot pink belly shirt with rhinestones, and it said, "SEXY!" I saw another one near it, also a belly shirt, that said, "I LOVE FOOTBALL ... players!" And yet another that said, "I'M A BIG FLIRT! (When my boyfriend's not around!"

So, you're thinking now ... Sheesh, Shanna, lighten up already. Those shirts aren't what you'd wear to church or anything, but it's not that bad for a teenager to wear them.

Probably true ... except I saw these shirts while shopping for my seven year old niece a birthday present. These three shirts were in the little girl's section, in sizes as small as 6X.

:(

Nomilynn

03-04-2004, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by Twisterdog
I saw a shirt in a store the other day. It was a hot pink belly shirt with rhinestones, and it said, "SEXY!" I saw another one near it, also a belly shirt, that said, "I LOVE FOOTBALL ... players!" And yet another that said, "I'M A BIG FLIRT! (When my boyfriend's not around!"

So, you're thinking now ... Sheesh, Shanna, lighten up already. Those shirts aren't what you'd wear to church or anything, but it's not that bad for a teenager to wear them.

Probably true ... except I saw these shirts while shopping for my seven year old niece a birthday present. These three shirts were in the little girl's section, in sizes as small as 6X.

:(

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I totally agree with you!!!! :( That is just so sad :(

popcornbird

03-04-2004, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by Twisterdog

Probably true ... except I saw these shirts while shopping for my seven year old niece a birthday present. These three shirts were in the little girl's section, in sizes as small as 6X.

:(

:(Sad:( Its no wonder that children are losing their innocence at such an early age these days. I am amazed at how much 6 year olds these days know. I mean sheesh...........some of these kids know things I had no clue of until I was 13 or so. :o Sad.

catnapper

03-04-2004, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by popcornbird
:(Sad:( Its no wonder that children are losing their innocence at such an early age these days. I am amazed at how much 6 year olds these days know. I mean sheesh...........some of these kids know things I had no clue of until I was 13 or so. :o Sad.

True... I'll admit this even though it'll prove how nerdy I was, but in 6th grade, I was still playing with Barbie. I didn't know what any kinds of kisses were outside my mom's goodnight kiss on my cheek. I was 11 in 6th grade.

When I married my husband, his youngest was in 6th grade and she knew LOTS of stuff. I almost fell over when she said some of the stuff she did. It wasn't just her, all of her friends said the same stuff. She was 12 in 6th grade.

I remember being in 6th grade and my mom having a hard time finding nice shoes for my Confirmation. We needed dressy shoes more grown up than the Mary Janes that seemed to be available, but my feet didn't fit adult sizes. She went nuts looking for something more appropriate to someone my age. Now, you walk into any kids shoes store and find a ton of strappy, sexy shoes. I saw HEELS the other day.:eek: :eek: