Court to Hear Case to Reopen Roe V. Wade

[CathyBogart]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040219/ap_on_re_us/roe_v__wade_3

Court to Hear Case to Reopen Roe V. Wade
Thu Feb 19, 5:18 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

By LISA FALKENBERG, Associated Press Writer


DALLAS - A federal appeals court has agreed to hear a request from the woman formerly known as "Jane Roe" to reconsider the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) decision Roe v. Wade (news - web sites) that legalized abortion.

Norma McCorvey, who joined with anti-abortion activists nearly 10 years ago, is seeking to have the decision overturned, citing what she says is more than 30 years of evidence that abortions are psychologically harmful to women.

A federal district judge threw out her initial request in June, saying it was not made within a reasonable time. But the New Orleans-based 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) has agreed to hear McCorvey's arguments March 2.

"It's something that I've wanted ever since Day One, and it's happening," McCorvey said from her Dallas home.

Dallas County District Attorney Bill Hill, whose predecessor Henry Wade who was named in the original lawsuit, has not filed a response to McCorvey's appeal. That may put the appeals court in the unusual position of hearing arguments from only one side.

Wade was named in the original case because he was charged with enforcing the Texas law that prevented McCorvey from having an abortion. Hill's office has argued that since that law no longer exists, Hill has no authority to prosecute and should not be sued.

More than 20 Texas law school professors concerned about an unbalanced hearing filed a brief Wednesday asking to be allowed to argue the other side of the case.

"It's important that the court hear from somebody representing the position that the district court took, which I think is clearly right," said David Schenck, a lawyer representing the professors. "At this point, the case is moot, and she's presenting at best a political question."

The Supreme Court decision came after McCorvey had her baby. The baby was the third child McCorvey put up for adoption; she was a 21-year-old carnival worker at the time.

She publicly identified herself as Jane Roe in 1980.

***************************

This is, in my opinion, the WORST IDEA EVER.

[Sirrahsim]

She's gotten older and wiser now. All I can say is good for her!! There are countless studies regarding how emotionally damaging abortions are to the mothers. Realistically, I doubt the ruling will get overturned after this much time, (:() but I think it's fantastic that she's putting forth an effort. Perhaps at the very least this will help to educate the general population about the emotional consequences of taking the life of a child.

[CathyBogart]

Look at http://www.imnotsorry.net/ for proof to the contrary. I don't feel that I am emotionally damaged or traumatized in any way for my experience, and many of the people I've talked to felt the same way.

Removing a zygote from your body that has the potential to ruin the rest of your life in many ways is drastically different from killing a child IMO.

[Pam]

Originally posted by WolfChan
Removing a zygote from your body that has the potential to ruin the rest of your life in many ways is drastically different from killing a child IMO.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who who will fight for all kinds of animal issues, draw the line when it comes to fighting for the rights of the unborn human child. :confused:

A 'zygote' has all of the DNA it will ever need to become a human being. We do not have the right to end its life. There are countless childless couples who would give their all for the chance at being parents. Someone who doesn't want to be 'bothered' with their 'zygote' need just look for them. Believe me they are there! That child need not 'ruin' anyone's life but has the chance of being the biggest blessing that the childless couple could ever have.

Sorry for being rude but this is one issue that just burns me up. :mad: Wake up people. We have been killing tiny innocent humans for too long!

[moosmom]

I don't feel that I am emotionally damaged or traumatized in any way for my experience.

I'm with you WolfChan. My experience also never left me traumatized or emotionally scarred.

I think that trying to get Roe vs. Wade reversed is like beating (pardon the pun) a dead horse.

In my opinion, if you don't like abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE!!! It is every woman's right to decide what she can and cannot do with her own body.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Pam
It never ceases to amaze me that people who who will fight for all kinds of animal issues, draw the line when it comes to fighting for the rights of the unborn human child. :confused:

A 'zygote' has all of the DNA it will ever need to become a human being. We do not have the right to end its life. There are countless childless couples who would give their all for the chance at being parents. Someone who doesn't want to be 'bothered' with their 'zygote' need just look for them. Believe me they are there! That child need not 'ruin' anyone's life but has the chance of being the biggest blessing that the childless couple could ever have.

Sorry for being rude but this is one issue that just burns me up. :mad: Wake up people. We have been killing tiny innocent humans for too long!

Have to agree with you, Pam. I've never wanted children, so I just never got pregnant.

I knew I didn't want kids, but I also knew I couldn't murder a child (or what some people call a 'zygote', which is at the very least a potential child).

BTW - I began having sex at a very early teen age and was responsible enough to prevent an unwanted pregnancy even then! Surely it's easier to carry a condom or take a pill every day, than to have a very invasive medical prcedure done!

Before you even start in on me people, I'm not talking about anyone who was raped or molested. I'm not sure how I feel about that, as I've never been in that position.

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by moosmom

In my opinion, if you don't like abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE!!! It is every woman's right to decide what she can and cannot do with her own body.

I couldn't agree with you more Donna!!

[CathyBogart]

Originally posted by micki76
BTW - I began having sex at a very early teen age and was responsible enough to prevent an unwanted pregnancy even then! Surely it's easier to carry a condom or take a pill every day, than to have a very invasive medical prcedure done!

Before you even start in on me people, I'm not talking about anyone who was raped or molested. I'm not sure how I feel about that, as I've never been in that position. [/B]

What about manipulated by someone who you've been in a long-term relationship with? Having someone try to "force" you to marry them at sixteen by popping a condom? I personally feel that's rape.

It astonishes me that with 6.4 billion people in the world we don't concentrate more on the fact that we have reached the water usage capacity of earth, and in some places we're still growing exponentially.

[micki76]

Originally posted by WolfChan
What about manipulated by someone who you've been in a long-term relationship with? Having someone try to "force" you to marry them at sixteen by popping a condom? I personally feel that's rape.

It astonishes me that with 6.4 billion people in the world we don't concentrate more on the fact that we have reached the water usage capacity of earth, and in some places we're still growing exponentially.

To the first part, they were using a condom. Yes, that's another "different" situation of which I have no first hand knowledge, and no real strong opinion on. That is obviously manipulation, but rape? No, more like forced insemination. The woman would be a willing participant in the act, so it's not rape or sexual assault. Is it wrong? Yes!

To the other part of your comment, so should people stop reproducing? I don't even understand what this comment has to do with abortion. :confused:

Should anyone who gets pregnant have an abortion because we're using up the water supply? :confused:

Sorry, I just don't even understand what that has to do with the topic at hand.

[Corinna]

I have too many friends who can't have children and WANT them . Adoption was the only option for my folks after having me (Iwasn't suppose to be either) I think it is very selfish to think only of your self, i almost was a surrigate for a freind .They luckly found and were able to adopt a child of their ethnic past.
If 3 women I know had not been brave and care enough my pastor and his wife would not have the 3 lovely boys they have now.
I also do not apoligise for my feelings! I was on the pill both times with my 2 children it is not 100% no matter what you do. I wasn't ready to have kids didn't even know if I wanted them, but i wouldn't trade them for the world. I can't say that given the chose that I would not have had them later I don't know.
So me people shouldn't be parents ,but a lot who should can't . I think the first lession in Kindergarden should apply. SHARE!!!!!

[mugsy]

I have never had children, never wanted children, and never will have children. I have also never been pregnant. For me, I would not have an abortion (I don't think), however, it's not my business what other women choose to do. I have a huge problem with trying to legislate morality. My view is that if you don't want an abortion or believe that it's wrong...don't have one, but, do not invade someone else's privacy and tell them what they can and can't do with their body.

Sorry, but, this is a really touchy subject with me because I don't want people to tell me what to do with my body, so I don't think anyone should be able to tell anybody what they can do with their body. I get REALLY angry about the whole thing, so I'm trying to be really careful what I say.

[Soledad]

Wow, what a topic.

I think abortion/conception is too complicated an issue for black and white slogans. That's why I'm pro-choice.

As some of you may know, I'm an epileptic. For some years I was on a combination of medicine for it. I was seventeen when I was put on them. At the age of 20, Sam and I found out that I was several weeks late for my period. I mentioned this to my neurologist at my appointment. She immediately sent for blood and urine tests. Turns out the medicine I was on "scrambled" fetuses. She told me that if I was pregnant, my fetus would be disfigured beyond all recognition. It wouldn't have a complete spine or limbs. She said that in her opinion, I'd have no real choice but to abort. Thankfully, the tests came back negative.

After that, I stopped taking the medicine. I would rather have a seizure than create a child so mangled and in pain that it would require an abortion.

That really brought home the whole issue of abortion for me. Before that, I'd never thought I'd be capable of having an abortion. I didn't and still don't want to make that decision for any other woman. It's a decision between her, her partner, and their doctor. I don't think anyone ever takes abortion lightly, and I think it's wrong for other people to judge you until they have been in your position.

[moosmom]

My view is that if you don't want an abortion or believe that it's wrong...don't have one, but, do not invade someone else's privacy and tell them what they can and can't do with their body.

Exactly Molly! The decision was right for me in MY case. Every case is different. Would I do it again? Probably not. But at the time, that was the only option for me. I'm just glad that the choice was mine and the option was there.

[Lady's Human]

IMHO,Frankly, the Roe V. Wade decision was one of the worst supreme court decisions ever, ranking right up there with the Derd Scott case in judicial idiocy. It was a power grad by the federal bench, plain and simple. The federal government has no place in the case, as the 10th amendment is very clear on where the power over issues not clearly delineated in the constitution lies.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Very simply, Roe V wade should never have been accepted by the courts.

(Okay, let the barrage begin)

[Soledad]

What about slavery?

[Lady's Human]

1) Oops, Dred scott, not Derd scott.

2) Slavery and many issues dealing with it were outlined in the constitution, making federal cases dealing with it plausible.

3) Bad comparison on my part. Dred Scott was an idiotic decision, whereas Roe V Wade was a case which should never have gotten to the federal bench, as the answer is clearly contained in the 10th amendment. However, the courts have been trampling on states rights for a number of decades now, so it doesn't shock me in the least.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Life is rarely simple and NEVER fair.


There are countless studies regarding how emotionally damaging abortions are to the mothers.

What about the emotional damage done to a child raised without a father?....what about the emotional damage done to a woman who carries a child she doesn't want for nine months?.... what about the emotional damage to a woman who gives her child up for adoption?....what about the emotional damage to a child who is given up for adoption??????

The whole issue is much too complex for simple statements.

[CathyBogart]

Adding to what Edwina's secretary said, What about the amotional damage done to a child who grows up with a mother who resents it for ever being born? What about the emotional damage done to a woman who gives birth so young, even if she doesn't end up keeping it?

I agree with everyone who is saying that if you don't want an abortion, don't have one, but don't mess with another person's right to their own body.

Micki: Yes, I meant that to say that people should stop reproducing as much as we do. We're killing our own habitat, and we have more important things that we should be focused on than what some people chose to do, which does not affect the people who are trying to stop them in any way. I just chose the water supply as an example.

Maybe if our world wasn't to kid-centric we wouldn't have 6.4 billion people and growing. This (http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Feb04/AAAS.pimentel.hrs.html) article scares me! It is ridiculous that so many people should want to bring more people into a world already overflowing.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by WolfChan

It is ridiculous that so many people should want to bring more people into a world already overflowing.

Just out of curiosity, how would you control this? If people want children, why should they not be allowed to have them? Would you impose limits? Or not allow certain people to reproduce? How would they be allowed to choose? Or maybe the better answer is to just let the species die off. WhenI see what some people do to each other and animals, they may be the right answer!!

I guess my point is, if you want your right to choose NOT to have children to be respected, you also must respect those who choose TO have children... Saying that "It is ridiculous that so many people should want to bring more people into a world already overflowing" Is not respecting someone else right to choose to have those children.

[CathyBogart]

Ah, but wouldn't it be great if reproduction was a privelage instead? Make sure all parents had enough time and money to feed/clothe/house their kids and enough common sense to raise them? I sure think so.

[Cincy'sMom]

I'm not saying that every person you can reproduce should...time and money should be a consideration. But in reality? If we wanted to pay off all our debt and finish remodeling our house and have everything just perfect, we'd be too old to enjoy our children. Some people learn or figure out ways to do what they need to becuase they want children and love them. Would you deny them becuase they only make X amount of dollars? So what criteria do you use?

I have to admit, Sometimes I do think it is a little ridculous that you have to take a class and pass a test to drive a car, but anyone can have a child. :rolleyes:

[Denyce]

WOW!

So many thoughts running through my head I can't get them out coherently or quickly enough.

1. NO ONE...and I mean NO ONE has the right to tell me what I can or cannot do with my body. The morality or correctness of abortion has not a darn thing to do with the issue. IT is about CHOICE and always has been about CHOICE!

2. All you right to lifers...what about the life of the teenager who goes to a backally abortionist because the CHOICE to have a safe and legal abortion was taken away. So they make a mistake...or are raped...and suddenly they have the choice of having thier bodies changed forever. NOT just for 9 months but pregnancy can have afteraffects that last a lifetime. Not just emotionally but physically. So now this little teenager is going to have to take her life into her hands because she is terrified to carry on with the pregnancy for whatever reason? Perhaps her parents will disown her, throw her out on the streets...you would be amazed at what some people will do. So now she is looking at a dirty coathook with some quack looking to make a quick buck. So she dies from septicemia...but I guess her life didn't matter did it...I mean...she had the choice didn't she. It wasn't all that long ago that this scenario was happening all over.

Or perhaps she has the child and dies in childbirth. But that is ok...because you SAVED a life!

Like Wolfchan and others have said...if you don't like abortion and think it is murder and morally wrong that is fine. DON'T HAVE ONE!!!! But don't you DARE force the lack of choice of a SAFE AND LEGAL abortion on the rest of us!!!!


As for the population explosion....one day something will have to be done about it. We have a finite amount of space on this earth and a finite amount of resources. They are running out people. But hey....go ahead and keep on breeding...someone has to experience the future:rolleyes:

Denyce

[CathyBogart]

Bravo Denyce, thanks! :)

[moosmom]

Bravo Denyce, thanks!

DITTO!!!! You said EXACTLY what I wanted to say! I applaud your candor!

[Twisterdog]

There are countless studies regarding how emotionally damaging abortions are to the mothers.

I have no doubt that is true. However ... there are MANY emotionally damaging things in life. Divorce, for example, is terribly emotionally damaging. Does that mean the federal government should ban marriage? Going to war is emotionally damaging. Working in an emergency room is emotionally damaging.

Everyone must have the right to lead their life as they see fit. If they make a mistake, they must deal with the consequences. What people do NOT need is a paternalistic government telling them what is and is not emotionally damaging to an individual, and attempting to legislate our choices away.

Making mistakes, making choices and dealing with the consequences is part of becoming a mature, responsible adult. I resent someone telling me I am too stupid to make those choices on my own.

[moosmom]

Everyone must have the right to lead their life as they see fit. If they make a mistake, they must deal with the consequences. What people do NOT need is a paternalistic government telling them what is and is not emotionally damaging to an individual, and attempting to legislate our choices away.

Making mistakes, making choices and dealing with the consequences is part of becoming a mature, responsible adult. I resent someone telling me I am too stupid to make those choices on my own.

RIGHT ON!!!!!

[dukedogsmom]

I agree Denyce! And, another thing that really burns me up is seeing all those commercials for impoverished countries. Asking for my money to feed all the children so they can create more victims to their poverty. I refuse to donate to something like that. I would, however, donate for birth control for them. And yes, maybe a limit on how many kids they could have should be issued when it's proof that they can't even provide for themselves. Instead of depending on others for donations and welfare.

[kevinrats]

Holy crap.
First off, the moment the egg is fertilized, it IS NOT YOUR BODY your dealing with anymore. It is a whole new being.

For the comment about teens "making a mistake" about having sex too early. Well, too bad cuz they made that choice and they should deal with the consequences. Its the only way your going to learn in life.

About abortion being made illegal...I think it's probably dumb, because people are still going to have them, and it would be more dangerous. On the other hand, it might deter some from getting one.

About getting raped/molested. I know how terrible this is, because people in my family have been there. But no matter what, if you get pregnant, you're going to be carrying that baby some of the time. Why not give it a chance and adopt it out? Would it scar you anymore that killing the baby?

You all have almost no respect for the miracle of life. It really sickens me.

Okay, now you can start yelling.

[dukedogsmom]

Leave it to a male to not care about the woman that's pregnant. Easy for you to say. Also easy because you are very young and without any life experience, it is much simpler to have things black and white. Life is not that easy. I also see that these are your first posts. Did you join just to fire up people?

[kevinrats]

Yeah, pretty much. I just saw this thread and it made me mad. And don't tell me just because I'm male, I don't care. I do care, a lot, because this goes on all over, in my family and whatnot. Don't generalize the entire male gender. It's not fair.

[trayi52]

I guess, as for my body and the fact that I am too old to have children anymore:( , sad because I'm old not because I want more children!

There is no way I want more children! I have raised 3, and had one misscarrige. I have 4 grandchildren. So what would I want with more children?

The way I feel about abortion, is that personally I couldn't have one myself. My body, and my feelings. When I first became pregnant with my children, even the one I lost I felt a bond. I am OLD, that is just me. I just couldn't do it myself. The children I have right now, I wouldn't take anything for. I am glad I kept them. Hey I got grandchildren!

If you want to have an abortion, then its something you are going to have to work out on your own, its your life, your body.
I certainly don't want anybody telling me or when I was younger telling me what I could do with my body. I chose to have my children. If you do not, then that is your right, and it is certainly your body.

Willie

[Denyce]

Kevinrats,

Sorry but it is MY BODY! And until you can experience the "joy" of giving birth then don't you dare to presume to tell a woman what she can do with HER BODY.

It is my opinion that until the zygote or fetus is able to sustain life outside of the body WITHOUT the use of machinery then the primary concern should be with the woman carrying the potential human.

As far as "mistakes" since many boys/men are unable to give birth they have no real regard for the consequences of their overactive hormones. Many a young girls life is ruined by some selfish irresponsible male. While they go off without any regard for either life they stomped all over. It takes two to tango you know. It also takes two to create life. I am not saying that females don't have any responsibilty in this matter. I am a strong believer in personal responsibilty and consequences. But boys/men should be held just as responsible. Once they impregnate a female and it can now be scientifically documented they go into the system. Until that child is able to support themselves without government assistance the male is COMPLETELY financially responsible for that child. Perhaps that will make the male think twice knowing that they too will have a consequence for the MAJORITY of their adult life. Perhaps they will keep it in the pants more often.

However, saying all that, the choices that young woman have to make should be safe and legal. There should be counseling and help from other women in making the best choice for them.

But the bottom line is...................THERE SHOULD BE A CHOICE! PERIOD.

[kevinrats]

Yes, the male gender is overly hormonal. But as you said, it takes two to tango. Unless it's rape.

I'm not telling you what to do with your body, I'm simply stating my opinion on the matter. Holy cow.

I think there should be a choice if its rape or incest or molestation, but otherwise, I think you should give your child up for adoption, because you made the choice to have sex. Sex is not an accident or a "mistake." It is a choice you make. (Unless it's rape, like I said.)

Also, don't males have to deal with the consequences? Yes, but unfortunately, not as severly. It is sad that males don't get held down to responsibilities, I agree.

And you said that until it's able to support itself. All I said was that it is a different life you are dealing with when conception has occured. It has it's own DNA, etc. Its a scientific fact. That's all I said.

[dukedogsmom]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Holy crap.
First off, the moment the egg is fertilized, it IS NOT YOUR BODY your dealing with anymore. It is a whole new being.

For the comment about teens "making a mistake" about having sex too early. Well, too bad cuz they made that choice and they should deal with the consequences. Its the only way your going to learn in life.

About abortion being made illegal...I think it's probably dumb, because people are still going to have them, and it would be more dangerous. On the other hand, it might deter some from getting one.

About getting raped/molested. I know how terrible this is, because people in my family have been there. But no matter what, if you get pregnant, you're going to be carrying that baby some of the time. Why not give it a chance and adopt it out? Would it scar you anymore that killing the baby?

You all have almost no respect for the miracle of life. It really sickens me.

Okay, now you can start yelling.
I sense a little contradiction in statements.

[kevinrats]

Theres no contradiction. I said there should be a choice if you are raped. But I said I thought it would be better to keep the child and adopt it out, though.

[CathyBogart]

Yes, carrying a fetus in me for nine months would be more traumatic than removing a zygote.

Thanks, this was a nice civil discussion from both sides before you stepped in. Now tempers are flaring, and I don't want to see this post licked because even the opinions of people who disagree with me are interesting to read, particularly if they back it up.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by WolfChan
Yes, carrying a fetus in me for nine months would be more traumatic than removing a zygote.

Thanks, this was a nice civil discussion from both sides before you stepped in. Now tempers are flaring, and I don't want to see this post licked because even the opinions of people who disagree with me are interesting to read, particularly if they back it up.


We need to all hit our ignore buttons, IMO. The only posts this charming gentleman has made on this board thus far are the ever-so-enlightened opinions in this post, or the even more Neanderthal ones where he assures us of God's own viewpoint on same-sex marriages, and accuses us all of being "Christian haters".

Me thinks me smells a troll.

[CathyBogart]

Good idea. No sense in getting all worked up over a troll. :) Thanks for reminding me about that button!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Pam
It never ceases to amaze me that people who who will fight for all kinds of animal issues, draw the line when it comes to fighting for the rights of the unborn human child. :confused:

A 'zygote' has all of the DNA it will ever need to become a human being. We do not have the right to end its life. There are countless childless couples who would give their all for the chance at being parents. Someone who doesn't want to be 'bothered' with their 'zygote' need just look for them. Believe me they are there! That child need not 'ruin' anyone's life but has the chance of being the biggest blessing that the childless couple could ever have.

Sorry for being rude but this is one issue that just burns me up. :mad: Wake up people. We have been killing tiny innocent humans for too long!

I agree 110% !!!

Ash

[kevinrats]

Wow WolfChan, thanks! :) Way to spread the love.

Hmm. I guess I am troll. :eek: Wait!!! Where are my billygoats gruff? I seem to have misplaced them!


Again, I am deeply sorry I started a controversy in the Dog House, a CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS message board.

And another question. Why is everyone calling me a troll when Aspen and Misty, and Pam are having the exact same opinions as me? Please enlighten me. You forgot to label them as trolls as well.

[Denyce]

I would like to see someone have this discussion without bring up the morality of abortion. Because it REALLY isn't about abortion. Never in any of my posts do you see me say that I feel abortion is ok. My position on abortion is really irrelevent. The controversy is about Choice. But Right to Lifers always resort back to whether or not abortion is morally correct. I think they are afraid to try and argue that women shouldn't have a choice without bring up the morality issue.

Everyone on this earth has differing values and morals and no one wants someone else's forced upon them. That is why this is about Choice. Everyone should have the freedom to choose how they wish to live their own lives.

I happen to think that with the population explosion and the increasing lack of natural resources that it is extremely immoral and irresponsible to have more than one child. So how would everyone feel if this became the popular opinion and those that became pregnant a second or third or fourth time were FORCED to submit to abortions because of the "right to lifers"?? With the lack of resources it isn't fair to bring into this world people that cannot be fed and clothed properly and having extra children takes food away from the people already born?? People wouldn't like that either. Don't we all just want the freedom of choice to make our own stupid decisions?

Think about it?

Denyce

[ILoveReptiles]

Wow - where to begin.

I'm most definitely Pro-Choice. For me, getting pregnant would be nothing short of my worst nightmare... Naturally I've taken steps to prevent it by getting myself sterilized, but if it ever happened I'd have an abortion without a second thought.

And I resent anyone who would preach to me that I don't have the right to do that. It's a personal decision, and nobody has the right to force me to choose something I do not want.

What about the emotional trauma I would suffer carrying the child for 9 months and resenting every moment of it? Does anyone think about that? Of course not. Because when the allmighty baybee is involved, suddenly my life and my emotional well being don't make a damn bit of difference anymore, is that it? :mad:

Well - sorry, but I disagree. I think it should always remain a personal choice. And I always find it appalling that everyone seems to care about the child more so than the parent, that is, until after it's born. Then they don't want a damn thing to do with it. It's the mother's job at that point.

Everything these days is about the children. Do it for the children, it's all for the children. But have you ever noticed that as soon as they hit a certain age, they instantly become second-class citizens? Nobody seems to give a rat's arse about the well being of an Adult versus a Child.

If there's a major world incident and say 100 adults lost their lives, the only thing the media can think of to concentrate on is that ONE PRECIOUS CHIYULD that lost their life, as if the adults mean nothing - everyone must bow down to the precious children. Screw the adults. We don't mean diddly squat.

[dukedogsmom]

And I agree with ILoveReptiles! Getting pregnant would be my worst nightmare. When someone takes precautions not to get pregnant and that happens, then whomever it happens to deserves the right to choose. I would get it done illegally if it was not allowed otherwise. That is how strongly I feel about it. Why can't we just accept the fact that we all feel strongly about our own opinion and just agree to disagree?

[mugsy]

Well....I have to agree....people have made this a moral issue, which is why I said that I have a problem with legislating morality. It's just like the controversy about making a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriages.....HELLO!! It's none of the government's business.

Like I said before, while abortion is not something I would wish to consider, I have a medical condition that may get much worse if I were ever to get pregnant....I'm way to selfish to let that happen...I would terminate any pregnancy I would have now...although it would bother me tremendously...and I am just now realizing I am contradicting what I said initially, but, the more I thought about it, the more I changed my mind.

Kevin, I see that you are really young, I think perhaps you may change your perspective as you get older and more mature. I teach kids your age and so I am well aware of most opinions of middle/high school students, and I also know that former students have come back to see me years later and we laugh about their attitudes when they were in 8th grade and how much they have changed as they have gone out into the real world and formed opinions of their own.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by kevinrats
Holy cow.



Oh oh......

That's what got the people camping with Moses in trouble.:eek:


The Billy goats are on the bridge.;)

[kevinrats]

You're right. My perspective might change. Maybe not. But for right now, I'm firm into this. I will agree to disagree.

[mugsy]

Originally posted by kevinrats
You're right. My perspective might change. Maybe not. But for right now, I'm firm into this. I will agree to disagree.

That's you're right, all I ask is that you try to keep an open mind and possibly investigate the other side. It's always best to study both sides even if you vehemently disagree with one of the sides. It will either solidify your position or sway you a bit. Please do keep in mind that you are a male who will never be able to have children so will never be able to understand a woman who has had an abortion. My husband and I have had that conversation before and he and I have to agree to disagree also, but he is considerably older than you are, so, perhaps you're right you might not change your mind! lol

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy
Please do keep in mind that you are a male who will never be able to have children


Toss that into our faces, will you??;)

[mugsy]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Toss that into our faces, will you??;)

I try my best!!

[dukedogsmom]

Richard, you're not the typical male. You're actually a great one! :)

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Denyce
I would like to see someone have this discussion without bring up the morality of abortion. Because it REALLY isn't about abortion. Never in any of my posts do you see me say that I feel abortion is ok. My position on abortion is really irrelevent. The controversy is about Choice. But Right to Lifers always resort back to whether or not abortion is morally correct. I think they are afraid to try and argue that women shouldn't have a choice without bring up the morality issue.

Everyone on this earth has differing values and morals and no one wants someone else's forced upon them. That is why this is about Choice. Everyone should have the freedom to choose how they wish to live their own lives.

I happen to think that with the population explosion and the increasing lack of natural resources that it is extremely immoral and irresponsible to have more than one child. So how would everyone feel if this became the popular opinion and those that became pregnant a second or third or fourth time were FORCED to submit to abortions because of the "right to lifers"?? With the lack of resources it isn't fair to bring into this world people that cannot be fed and clothed properly and having extra children takes food away from the people already born?? People wouldn't like that either. Don't we all just want the freedom of choice to make our own stupid decisions?

Think about it?

Denyce


I agree. It is called Pro-CHOICE, not Pro-ABORTION. I had my son when I was a twenty-two year old single mother. And yet, I'm pro-choice. I chose to have a child. But, it was my CHOICE. I didn't need a middle-aged, male senator telling me I was too stupid to know my own mind.

Once we start taking away the rights of a certain group, everyone's rights are in danger. The stripping away of liberties is dangerous ground, one thing leads to another. In the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller after World War II, "First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Whatever your personal feelings about abortion are, they should not keep you from being a proponant of free will and educated choices. If abortion is a "sin", then God or whomever you worship will take care of that part of the issue on Judgement Day. Let's not try to do God's job for him. Let's do ours: get out and vote in November, and vote for freedom and choice ... choice in whatever it is in life that merits it.

[dukedogsmom]

Very good, Twisterdog! I had forgotten about that speech and it's very true and effective. I saw something interesting on TechTv channel I believe it was. Sorry for going off topic(before I start) Anyway, it was about the police who had put a GPS locater on a suspected rapists car. The attorneys tried to throw it out because they didn't get a search warrant to put it on the suspect's vehicle. However, it was ruled that you don't expect your vechicle to be private since it's out in the open(parking lots, etc) So, now if law enforcement wants to track you, they have the right. I'm all for law enforcement but I think this is a bit much. Wonder how much trouble you'd get into if you removed that from your vehicle? Ok, through ranting.

[Denyce]

Another point came to me this afternoon while I was discussing this issue with someone at work. And this pertains to all the Bible Thumping Christians out there.


When God created humans he gave us free will and the ability to choose how to live the lives he gave us.

Denyce