This made me soooo mad.

[Kfamr]

This is basically a small, yet aggrivating rant. so, if you odn't want to read such a thing, click "back". :p


I have Jewelery class with this freshman, Bobby, that I met this year and have become good friends with.

He's a very unique kid, always happy and always able to make you laugh.

He doesn't have the best family life, but he's still always happy.

He put eyeliner on today, which alot of people wear, lol. I mean just aobut everyone I know (except me :p) wears eyeliner.

So, anyways, to the aggrivating part.

The teacher, Ms. Vargas, whom i've known and has classes with since my Freshman year, calls Bobby into her office.

When Bobby came back, I asked him what she needed him for.

He said that she told him to take his eyeliner off, that it was a class disruption (Ummm... No one was even paying attention to it) and that he reminded her of Preston (another good friend of mine, and why would she bring him up anyways?!?) He didn't take it off.

A teacher has NO RIGHT, imo, to tell a student to take their make up off, unless it was completely covering his face like face paint. There's plenty of girls who cake on their make up, far more than a little eye liner.

He's the only guy on the class and she's been so rude and hard on him since class started.


On our first project, which was making a necklace out of sculpey clay.. After watchin him over the 2 weeks we had, even helping him with making his beads, wathcing him put the necklace together -- she says when he goes to put the necklace up on the desplay board that it was unacceptable, not good enough, and made him take it apart.


:mad:
She makes me so angry. She ALWAYS complains aobut how students don't treat her right, how she dislikes most of her job, how she doesn't get paid enough money, and how she always ends up paying for most of the tools we use.

WELL, THERE'S NOTHING US STUDENTS CAN DO TO CHANGE HER LIFE!!!


Ughh.... I'll end this rant for now. :p

[Tonya]

That's to bad. To me that's discrimination. Who is she to decide rather a male or female can wear makeup? :mad:

[mugsy]

I don't like it when guys wear makeup, but generally don't say anything about it unless the kids are laughing about it or it disrupts the learning process. I do know, however, some of our teachers that would send him to the office. Now, keep in mind I also teach middle school where the kids have even fewer rights than high school kids.

I would hope that if it's as bad as that, that his parents would call and request a conference with the teacher. Or at least call. I never have a problem talking to parents, so that they can get the story straight from the horse's mouth.

[Pam]

KayAnn back when I was in school when the dinosaurs roamed the earth you wouldn't believe the dress code we had in public school. This poor boy would have most definitely been called down to the office as well. Kids today are pretty much allowed to dress in a very relaxed manner (jeans, etc.) where when I was in school girl had to wear dresses or skirts and blouses - absolutely no slacks! No sandals in the summer and we had no air conditioning in the schools back then. We begged to be able to wear shorts during final exams but the answer was always NO! See I told you I was older than dirt! LOL!

I think the thing that is so sad with your story is that this boy might be being singled out and that is a shame. The teacher sounds like she is putting in hours to get a paycheck and probably should find another profession. Obviously she isn't teacher material. I hope you just keep on being his friend. In the meantime be glad you don't have to dress the way us *old folks* did back in the Dark Ages. :p

[ILoveMyAbbyGirl]

*cough* Personally, a little eye liner on guys is... *ahem* charming... *cough*

I love eye liner on guys. It just shows everyone that they will and can stand up for what they want and not be too shy to try something new.

Bravo for him for being the only male in a jewelry class. Another good example of being brave.

Have him talk to the counselor or something... someone who has authority and can set that stupid teacher straight...

[Kfamr]

I see no problem with boys wearing make up. The school board/ teachers shouldn't either.

No one's ever laughed about boys wearing make up here, although I can't say they're more mature in highschool than in middle school.


He doesn't have parents, he was adopted by his grandmother.


I love eyeliner on guys too, Honestly I think a little looks great on everyone. It well, outlines the eyes, obviously, and makes them stand out a bit more :)

[Karen]

Hmmm, who is your teacher's boss? Maybe a well-worded polite complaint about her, signed by other students in the class, and turned in to her boss might have an effect?

Next time she complains about teaching, ask her why she is a teacher, anyway? What job would she rather be doing?

[Kfamr]

That's a good idea Karen, and I bet I could get tons of signatures.

But, then again I doubt it'd do anything in my school, especially since she's good at lying.

Actually, I remember a girl who complained about her last year, because I got called up the the office to be questioned aobut it.

The girl gave them ym name because I told her i'd stand up for her, since Ms. Vargas continuously said degrading stuff aobut her to other students.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Strange, stupid teacher. :mad:
All of my friends wear eyeliner, guys and girls. But I don't. :p None of my teachers have said anything to the guys about it, but I have one who just rolls their eyes at it and continues on.

[mugsy]

KayAnn, his grandmother could request the conference. I think that both sides should present their side of the story. I would be interested in what her explanation would be.

Please don't misunderstand, I am much more for free expression than any of the other teachers at our school. I just don't care for men wearing makeup, but, whatever blows your hair back...they're not there to please me....they need to make themselves comfortable.

I would probably take your friend aside and give him the options that have been presented here and see what HE thinks. Maybe you could offer to go as moral support and ask to speak to the principal (who would be her boss).

[catnapper]

Hmmm... when I went to school, girls were sent home for similar reasons. But that was then and this is modern society!

Now, the thing to do is to get another boy to wear eyeliner in her class (not so obviuos - like tomorrow) and see how she responds. If she allows him to remain in class without a word, then your friend has a valid complaint.

Has your friend's grandmother spoken to the teacher? I have had to go to my kids school for various reasons (one thing I've learned is to never ever go storming in a blaming the teacher... always go in to "discuss the matter and get both sides of the story.")

I had one teacher that was being blatantly unfair to my daughter last year (she almost got suspended for laughing during a game in class - even after the teacher admitted she was encouraging laughter!) We took it all the way to the superintendant and my daughter got pulled out of the class and into a new one.

Personally, I'm too old fashioned to like the look of makeup on males, but that's me. I realize that its a whole lot better form of personal expression than permanent tatoos, so with the choice, I'd say put all of the eyeliner on you want and stay away from permanently marking your body!:D

[Amber]

Okay first of all, makeup isnt only just for women. So he DOES have a right to wear it (unless against school policy), if they want...Right? Alot of my friends were eye liner, I do. But I personally havent seen a guy at my school wear it. Anyway, your teacher is unfair. And if she is complaining of being a teacher, then why on earth, is she being a school teacher? :confused:

[carole]

What amazes me is you are even allowed to wear make-up of any description to school, my daughter has just started her new school with a uniform and she is not allowed any make-up of any kind, no jewellery except a watch and one earing in each ear, which must be studs,and her hair if shoulder length to be tied up,I think the kids look great, and none of them seem to mind that much, as they all have to do it..

Maybe I am being old-fashioned but I don't think make-up has a place in school, and if you wear a uniform certain standards should be met, I am pleased we have these rules, the kids look smart, clean and tidy, no hair gels, or outrageous hair colours or piercings, as for expressing their individuality I think that is a crock, JMHO, but as for the teacher complaining all the time, now that is a NO NO , she is not a good example to you kids.

[Amber]

I wish our school were more like that. But it isnt. Kids at my school are aloud to were anything that isnt revealing. But still they do, and it grosses me out!

[slleipnir]

I can't say that I -love- eyeliner on guys..but then again I haven't seen a whole lot with it. But I believe we are intitled to have our own freewill..I think it's so stupid your teacher does that. People like that really bug me :( I remember a girl in my jr high school..she dressed different from other people..like very gothic like. Dog collor, the whole works..at this point, really no one dressed like that (WhenI was in high school however, you saw a lot of it) anyway, I always heard people saying bad things about her, and making up all this crap and stuff..anyway, turns out she owned a horse at the barn I rode at. So I was talking to her one day about her horse, and she turned out to be one of the nicest people I've met in a while. She even let my friend and I ride her horse a lot and took time to help us with our riding. She ended up moving away shortly after which sucked..she also lived in my moms apt which I didn't know till she was moving. Anyway, didn't mean to take up your thread, but it kinda shows how judgemental people are :mad:

[carole]

Amber most schools in NZ, with the exception of a few and primary years that is from 5 to 11, wear a school uniform and have these kind of rules, some are even stricter, the uniform is practical and sensible, blues, greys,maroons and greens being the prominant colours.

I actually thing the dress codes (from what you and others on PT say are disgraceful), there is a time and place for everything, school is a place for learning, not to be confused with dressing up to be cool or fashionable or to impress the opposite sex , so make-up and clothes like that donot have a place in school IMO, it also stops the competition thing especially amongst girls, not everyone can afford the latest gear, so there is no class distinction.

Whether you are wearing a uniform or not, why is make-up necessary,? most young people have beautiful skin that should not need to be covered with foundation and the likes,(I can understand those with blemishes needing to use it) but thats the only exception..

I think eye-liner should be off the list, its a very dramatic make-up, very obvious, man aren't you all lucky I am not your head-mistress!!!!?

[dukedogsmom]

I'm sure lots of girls use way more than him. And it does sound like he's being singled out. If I were you, I'd tell the principal or someone pretty high up of her actions. Tell them everything that has been going on. That kind of treatment should not be allowed and it sounds like he's already got enough problems without her adding more.

[popcornbird]

Personally, I don't like eyeliner on guys..........not one single bit. I really don't think makeup is a guy's thing, but that is just how *I* see it. That being said, as long as it isn't against the school rules, its his choice what he wants to wear, and though some may not like it, its still his right. I think its discriminatory on the teacher's behalf to do this. :(

[cali]

there only one guy in my school that has ever worn make-up and that was last year, he came to drama where blush and lipstick, the teacher was like"what the?" he said he got bored in film, what I wanna know is, what was he doing with blush and lipstick in the first place?(and I mean like dark pink blush, and pink ladys lipstick!) lol thats the only time I have ever seen a guy with make-up on though :eek: but whatever, that teacher needs to get a life.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

What a rude teacher! I agree with Karen.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by ILoveMyAbbyGirl
*cough* Personally, a little eye liner on guys is... *ahem* charming... *cough*

I love eye liner on guys. It just shows everyone that they will and can stand up for what they want and not be too shy to try something new.

Bravo for him for being the only male in a jewelry class. Another good example of being brave.

Have him talk to the counselor or something... someone who has authority and can set that stupid teacher straight...

ewwwww! lol. I'll pass on a guy with eyeliner. They are either a) to prissy or b) to different for me. I'll send them all your way, Meg! :D

[Kfamr]

Lol, most guys I know can out make up on WHOLE LOT BETTER than the girls I know. They also look better in it too.

My friend Preston is the only one i've seen that can actually look good in black lipstick, although I don't like black lipstick much at all.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by carole
so make-up and clothes like that donot have a place in school IMO



Oh, and I honestly agree.

But, if she's going to yell at him for it -- she needs to yell at the fake-dyed blonde girls and others who CAKE it on IN CLASS.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Oh, and I honestly agree.

But, if she's going to yell at him for it -- she needs to yell at the fake-dyed blonde girls and others who CAKE it on IN CLASS.

Exactly.

[Tonya]

Honestly, though...Sorry if I change the subject or start a debate...This is going to sound stereotypical, but oh well...

Every guy that I have ever met that wears makeup and even *almost* every female that is into the black makeup is totally depressed and angry. (Aside from transvestites and drag queens, I'm talking the morbid stuff...) And I'm not totally speaking out of naiveness. I have quite an array of friends. But looking back, it was so cool to be depressed when I hung out with (what they called back then) mods. Even my middle brother is still kind of into that stuff still. Luckily, he's growing out of it. It just seems to me along with that black makeup, comes all the other wierd self hate stuff. Like carving on yourself, hating life, etc...

Kayann, is it like that everywhere, or am I just old and sheltered? I guess I'm a bit prejudice, because when I see people like that, I automatically assume that they are going to be the pessimist type. So, I'm not interested in getting to know them.

Regardless, as I said before, I think the makeup rules should apply to all or none.

[Kfamr]

Nope! It's not always like that.

Like I said, Bobby is a happy kid. Seriously, he's so high on life and always so happy to be around.

The only time i've seen him down was when Ms. Vargas said stuff aobut him. She's even said his hair was "Goofy". He has normal hair, it's probably a bit past his ears, and it's blonde.

As well as alot of other friends of mine who wear eyeliner or black clothing. They're completely happy and love themselves (In fact, Preston's a bit conceited :P )

I don't wear make up or black clothing all of the time. I don't wear make up at all, unless I'm playing around to take pictures(which I did once)

As for black clothing, I do wear it but again, not all of the time.
I dunno how I could be "labeled" at all, because well.. i'm just me.
Lol, I don't limit mysefl to one sort of music, I do limit myself to the "kind of friends" I have. I have friends that are "labeled" differently.


Okay, I think I went off topic too -- did I atleast answer your question? :o :D :p :o

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Tonya
Every guy that I have ever met that wears makeup and even *almost* every female that is into the black makeup is totally depressed and angry. (Aside from transvestites and drag queens, I'm talking the morbid stuff...) And I'm not totally speaking out of naiveness ... It just seems to me along with that black makeup, comes all the other wierd self hate stuff. Like carving on yourself, hating life, etc ... is it like that everywhere, or am I just old and sheltered? I guess I'm a bit prejudice, because when I see people like that, I automatically assume that they are going to be the pessimist type. So, I'm not interested in getting to know them.

Regardless, as I said before, I think the makeup rules should apply to all or none.



I have to agree with you, Tonya.


I know that I live in a rather "backwards" state ... although not as bad as some. But, in all honesty, a boy would NOT wear makeup to school here. He would NOT have a pleasant time of the rest of the school year. I've never seen any boy wearing makeup in public here.

[Kfamr]

It's really too bad it's like that.

Some teachers are completely fine with it, other's are completely idiotic about it, Ms. Vargas for example.

[Kfamr]

Oh, and Tonya -- When I started out my Freshman year, I totally thought the same way. Sort of like " wow, those kids are weird."

But then I met them and talked to them. They're completely opposite fo what I had thought, which has basically stopped me from judging anyone again until I actually talk to them.

[Shelteez2]

My cousin David wears eyliner....but only when he's doing a drag show. Man oh man does he make a hot girl!!!! But that's another story.

When I was in high school there were maybe a few guys that wore it.

Personally I don't like it, but to each their own, right? That teacher had no right to single him out for it though.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Twisterdog



I know that I live in a rather "backwards" state ... although not as bad as some. But, in all honesty, a boy would NOT wear makeup to school here. He would NOT have a pleasant time of the rest of the school year. I've never seen any boy wearing makeup in public here.

Personally, I have never seen a guy wearing makeup in my life (unless you want to count Michael Jackson :p). He he. I don't think makeup is a guy's thing. I think it looks nasty on them..........like they're *girl-wannabes*. Don't know how people are in Florida, but around here, its something you really wouldn't see. Maybe there are boys who do wear makeup here, but none in my school. Even on girls, I don't like *too much* makeup. Just a little modest amount, to make you look *good*, but really, I don't think makeup has a place in a guys life. Of course they should be free to use it if they like. Its just that I don't like it. :p

Ps. Tonya, I agree with you on the black makeup thing. Everyone I've met who uses black makeup is always very down, depressed, and has a strange, snotty personality.

[Kfamr]

Wow, it really sucks to not know where you live because people seem very odd and different there, from what you've told us.

No one in my school is like that, definitly not snotty.
Everyone has depressed times in life, but I don't believe their make-up has anything to do with it.

[Tonya]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Wow, it really sucks to not know where you live because people seem very odd and different there, from what you've told us.

No one in my school is like that, definitly not snotty.
Everyone has depressed times in life, but I don't believe their make-up has anything to do with it.

Well, that is good to hear. I guess the particular crowd that I know around here is different. I don't normally judge by looks; I have a whole circus of friends. I myself used to do alot of different stuff to myself before I was a mommy. I had all the piercings, hair colors, dressed like a freak, etc...I suppose I'm still a little different, but for the most part I think I've become an old lady. lol.

It's just that one particular crowd has always bothered me. Maybe it's because I saw my brother go through some really crazy and rough times when he started hanging out with them.

[catnapper]

Ok, I went and asked my husband about this.. he's a teacher and he said that teacher was way out of line. Even if it was specifically written in the student code book, she was out of line. If she seriously thought it was a class disruption issue, she should have sent him to the office and have the office decided what to do about it. they could have sent him back with or without the eyeliner and she could resume as normal. If they sent him back with the eyeliner, then she can never ever say anything to him about it again. If he returns without, then she can send him there til kingdom comes as long as he shows up to her class with it. He said that your friend actually has a harassment suit going there.

You'd be amazed at how easy it is nowadays to sue a school district over things:mad:

[HoRsELUvR]

I think some guys look ok in eyeliner,but anything beyond that is a little extreme.The teacher definetly should not have made him take it off.He has a right to wear it, its none of her business if he wants to wear it.

[K9soul]

Sounds like that teacher just personally didn't like it so made up some bogus thing about disrupting the class. Like others have said, if it was against the rules for anyone to wear makeup that would be different but he definitely seems singled out. When I was in high school I only remember the girls wearing makeup but some of them looked awful with so much on.

It definitely sounds like that teacher is out of line.

[My Peanuts]

I'm from Chicago and a male wearing eyeliner wouldn't even raise eyebrows around here. I just graduated from college and have been in school for 17 consecutive years; it's my opinion that a lot of teachers hate their jobs. It seems that many, especially high school teachers, are at their jobs because when they were 22 years old it seemed like a good idea, but now, years later, it doesn't. Many teachers are bitter and awful. Of course they aren't all like that. I have had many wonderful teachers. I would tell Bobby just to ride out the semester because no matter what he does he isn't going to change the teacher. Remember these teachers have had their jobs for years and years and the students are only there for four years. The school administration will always side with teachers. Tell Bobby that he should express himself and an art/jewelry teacher should appreciate that.

[carole]

Hey I wear a lot of black clothing, I don't consider myself to be depressed all of the time, now and then just like a normal human being, so I don't see that people who wear that kind of clothing and make-up would fit that stereotype, maybe the people you knew did Tonya, but it would be not the norm IMO.

I honestly believe school in America should be much more stricter in their dress codes, to me its unbelievable that they can dress like that and wear make-up, apart from the very few schools in NZ it just does not happen here, its hard to even imagine kids going to school like that., weird to me !!

kay-ann I am in agreement with you on your last comment to me..

[lovemyshiba]

I am in agreement that it does sound like he was being singled out, and the teacher is in the wrong. It does seem as though she has it out for him for some reason.

That being said, I grew up in a small town, and if ANY guy would have come to school wearing makeup, it wouldn't have been the teachers he would have had to worry about. I'm sure other guys in school would have beat the crap out of him.
I don't believe I have ever seen a guy with eyeliner on, and cannot even imagine it.

I will have to talk to my sister (she's 16), and see if that stuff goes on at her school, just out of curiosity. Also, I have a friend with a 16 year old daughter, I'll have to ask her too.

I guess I'm old, I didn't know that was the newest thing:p

I cannot stand a ton of makeup on anyone, male or female, so I can only imagine how it looks. But, I seriously doubt it was a class disruption. Maybe your teacher needs to be a little more tolerant of other people.

As for what Tonya said about the black clothing, I have a lot of it too, but I like how black looks on me, it has nothing to do with being depressed. I know what she meant though--that whole gothic look--ick!

[guster girl]

I've read all of the posts on this thread, and, it's a pretty healthy debate. ;) I have definite opinions on it. I think the teacher should keep her mouth shut on any complaints she may have about teaching, or what she makes or doesn't make, that's for sure. As far as her singling the only guy out in class, that's almost human nature, but, still should be avoided and definitely reported if it continues. He's obviously interested in making jewelry, and, that really should be all that matters to her. As far as anyone wearing makeup, I don't personally care. I know what I do and don't find attractive, but, beauty really is in the eyes of the beholder. And, regardless of what things were like five, twenty, a hundred years ago.....things are different now and it's not fair to compare generations. What's funny is that any generation that complains about the following generation, generally was complained about by the one before them, too. It's always going to be that way, unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast, so to speak. And, I definitely don't think that expressing your individuality is a crock, but, rules are rules. If they have rules where you're at, and, you disagree with them so fervently, go about it the right way. Petition, etc....Don't just blatantly break them and expect to get away with it or not be made an example out of or be singled out. If it's work or something, then get a different job. Like Ms. Jewelry teacher should look into doing. And, I also completely disagree with the stereotype that people who dress in all black are angry people. Stereotyping sucks. But, anyway, I'm enjoying this thread. Keep it going..... :)

[Tonya]

I think I got misunderstood a little bit. You guys might think I'm a weirdo, but I'll reveal to much personal information in order to explain. lol.

I hit a rough spot my senior year in highschool and mixed in with the wrong crowd. The morbid stuff wasn't as big back then. But I had a shaved head (with an exception of these stupid bangs :rolleyes: ) and black hair. I had the piercings and wore chains and spikes. My little crowd went out of our way to look dirty and freaky. All we ever did was sit around and have these wannabe intellectual talks about how the world sucks, people suck, politics suck, life sucks, everything sucks. We all abused our bodies at one point or another. We were so hateful and pretty much suicidal. Only two of us pulled out of that and now have productive lives. The rest are druggies, in mental hospitals, etc... My best friend at the time, who was an honor student and beautiful girl...who changed with me our senior year, is now a lunatic. She just sits and rocks herself and doesn't speak.

Then, my brother (we're 5 years apart) went through similar crap. He was a perfectly ok kid, and then started hanging out with this crowd. They all painted their faces white and wore black lipstick, eyeliner, nails. They walked around in capes and misc. vampire attire. My brother and his wife are now adults and they have embarrassing scars on their bodies from cutting on themselves.

That's my only experiences with people that dress gothic. I'm talking specifically about gothic dressing, not black clothes, body piercing, etc...

I know that I am totally stereotyping. And I hate people like that. I guess I'm the hypocrite that Kayann's referring to in her siggy. ;) If some person in goth walked by me and smiled, I'd stand corrected. lol.

BTW, look! We all turned out pretty ok! The brother I'm talking about is the one in the darker hair. Don't let our looks decieve you though. We're still wierdos. :D


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid98/p3c6d149c392330241667f28a9e07d935/fa01d1be.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pa4b29187dcee76d33813477f2ef94371/fa953818.jpg