The 2004 presidential election.

[RICHARD]

Well,

It's time to start laughing at politics again...

"We are going to Arkansas, Michigan, California..."


WHOA........let me know when John Dean shows up in my neighborhood.....

What was that scream at the end of that tirade??

[Logan]

LOL!!! John Dean????

I told a friend, this morning, that I laughed, loudly, when I found out that silly Howard Dean had placed 3rd in the Iowa caucus after all the pundits and polls said he would finish first.

I have no problem saying that I usually vote Republican, but I have been watching this Democratic saga closely. If I were a Democrat, my vote would be for Joe Lieberman, first, then Richard Gephardt. I was surprised, and somewhat happy about how well Edwards did. Howard Dean does nothing for me, and I did really laugh at his outburst last night. What a bunch of hot air!!!!! :D

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Logan
LOL!!! John Dean????
What a bunch of hot air!!!!! :D



SHUT UP!!!:p


Shows you what ERA I came from......
HOWARD DEAN..


Hot air or a wedgie????

:eek: :confused: :rolleyes: :D

[Logan]

Something evil, for sure, Richard! I wondered today if he might be embarassed by his "war whoop". It has been played over and over on talk radio, although everyone has been politically correct saying it sounded like a "Native American" war whoop, rather than an Indian cry!!!! :o

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Logan
Something evil, for sure, Richard! I wondered today if he might be embarassed by his "war whoop". It has been played over and over on talk radio, although everyone has been politically correct saying it sounded like a "Native American" war whoop, rather than an Indian cry!!!! :o

Thanks for not commenting on my faux pas...John Dean...indeed...


And everyone knows that there's no "indian crying in politics"....:rolleyes: :D

Maybe I should delete this thread before I get into trouble????


Naw....:D

[Logan]

Don't you worry...........I'm old enough to remember John Dean, too, so that was a mistake that any of us could make!!!! :) I thought maybe you had done it on purpose!!!

Don't delete the thread.........I was going to start it if you didn't!!! :o That's what the Dog House is for, right???? :)

[2kitties]

I enjoy a little John Dean for Breakfast.


Wait a minute... that's Jimmy Dean.

So there's John, Howard and Jimmy. And none of them will ever be President. :p

[mugsy]

I was wondering if they weren't going to carry Dean out in a strait jacket!! lol

He's just plain wacko!!

I'm with you Logan, I like Lieberman...but, alas, he won't last long.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I enjoy a little John Dean for Breakfast.


Wait a minute... that's Jimmy Dean.

So there's John, Howard and Jimmy. And none of them will ever be President. :p


What about ZEPPO AND GUMMO, the lost MARX brothers???:rolleyes:


Logan,

See I'm funny when I am stupid!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

My vote will be for ABBB.......................................

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
My vote will be for ABBB.......................................

The floor recognizes the representative from Illinois..........



WHO?:confused:

;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry! I just remembered (with a little help from a friend) my vow to avoid politics....and religion....and any other controversial topics.

I'll just crawl on back to the cat cruise........

[tatsxxx11]

Hey 2 Kitties. I grew up with the Jimmy Dean family in Tenafly NJ. Jimmy Dean was a friend of mine. (And a damn fine sausage maker too) Howard, you're no Jimmy Dean!:p Amd speaking as a nurse, let me tell you, there are more drs. out there JUST like him. WHOA!!!!!!!:eek: Forget about not wanting his finger on THE button. I wouldn't want his finger on my belly button!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
WHOA!!!!!!!:eek: Forget about not wanting his finger on THE button. I wouldn't want his finger on my belly button!


"I did not Pap smear that woman....."

:confused:


ES,

Remember as the election heats up......

your fingers will burn at the chance to post on this thread.......

Or as Ahrnold would say....."YOU'LL BE BACH"..


I think it's time to get the "Election Satan" running for office......He belongs to the
Rock and Roll All Night and Party Everyday Party





:eek:

[tatsxxx11]

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! Really, Richard, how low can you go!!!:D:D:D Never mind, dont answer PLEASE; that was rhetorical!:D

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! Really, Richard, how low can you go!!!:D:D:D Never mind, dont answer PLEASE; that was rhetorical!:D

Are you talking about me posing as Election Satan or my taunting Edwina's Secretary?

:rolleyes:


Politics CAN be fun....

[tatsxxx11]

Gentleman's choice!:p Actually, I was talking more anat...oh, forget it!:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Gentleman's choice!:p Actually, I was talking more anat...oh, forget it!:rolleyes:


Satan?


A gentleman???


Now THAT's funny......


Would you like to rule the Underworld with me???

Good benefits and a 401....paid vacations and merit raises.....as applicable. Half Day Fridays but there are some weekends you WILL HAVE TO WORK......SATAN DEMAN.....

oops!

[catland]

The delegate from Oregon, home of microbrews, no sales taxes, a screwed up state budget that the voters are planning to repeal in a special election next month to send a message to the state legislature to remove thier proverbial heads out of their ****'s, high unemployment, and Racheed Wallace....

oh wait, our primary isn't until May - by then this will all be a moot point -


never mind....


AAAARRRRRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland



AAAARRRRRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH


LOL,

can you shorten that up, bumperstickers, ya know??:D



lmao,

A few weeks ago Cah lee fuh nee uh was the crazy place to be.......a few square feet in Iowa was the HOT SPOT last night...

[tatsxxx11]

How'd ya know???? Ooooooo, I love it HOT, HOT, HOT and I simply adore red! Hmmm, decent hours, excellent benefits.....but I do insist on my own pitchfork and forgot the tail; so de rigeur:D And I'll trade you weekends for Thursdays at Chez Ricardos! (Do I get time and a half for weekends...? I am a union girl you know)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
(Do I get time and a half for weekends...? I am a union girl you know)


lololol..

I am a union man....You know unions are evil...


This is one of the best days I have had on PT...

[tatsxxx11]

This is one of the best days I have had on PT...

No finer feeling than knowing you've satifsfied your man! It was good for me too!;)


You know unions are evil... I'll bet Gephardt's muttering those exact words this minute!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11


No finer feeling than knowing you've satifsfied your man! It was good for me too!;)



To steal a line....

Politics make strange bedfellows....:D


Poor Dickie,

think of all the money he spent...time to collect the DG for Prez memorabilia!!!

[tatsxxx11]

Bed, did someone say bed? Which is where I shall be heading, shortly, after my Cord On Blue. I know, you Left Coasters are just getting warmed up! Hey, it's cold and dark here. Can you spell S*I*B*E*R*I*A??? Satan, turn up the heat!;)

[RICHARD]

[i]
Hey, it's cold and dark here. Can you spell S*I*B*E*R*I*A??? Satan, turn up the heat!;) [/B]


lol... you got it....

Did anyone watch thr state of the union last night???

[2kitties]

Dean Loses Endorsement!!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108942,00.html (Dean Loses Endorsement)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
[B]Dean Loses Endorsement!!!!!



on the same week Kobe Bryant loses the Mc Donald's endorsement......

Something evil is underfoot....

[2kitties]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Something evil is underfoot....
Tru daat, Richard.:D

[catland]

2k - I coudn't see the story from your link.

Yes, I saw the speech last night - got so bored that I went in the bedroom and sorted out my shoes.

Later I watched Americal Idol;)

[2kitties]

wonder what I did wrong.

Anyway, ti's a story about Jimmy Dean being dropped by Sarah Lee as the spokesman for Jimmy Dean sausage.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
wonder what I did wrong.

Anyway, ti's a story about Jimmy Dean being dropped by Sarah Lee as the spokesman for Jimmy Dean sausage.

Actually, it's what did JIMMY do wrong?:eek:

[RICHARD]

Howard Dean played a Van Halen song at his party on Monday....


So it gives me great pleasure to announce that
I, as Satan, announce my candidacy for the Office of the President of the United States.....

My Van Halen song???....

Running With The Devil

Yeah, Yeah!
Ah, yeah!

I live my life like there's no tomorrow
and all I've got, I had to steal
Least I don't need to beg or borrow
Yes I'm livin' at a pace that kills

Oooh, yeah
(Ahh!) Runnin' with the devil (Ahh-hah! Yeah!)
(Woo-hoo-oo!) Runnin' with the devil
I'm gonna tell ya all about it

I found the simple life ain't so simple
When I jumped out, on that road
I got no love, no love you'd call real
Ain't got nobody, waitin' at home

(Ah, yeah-ah!)
Runnin' with the devil
(G*d d*mn it lady. You know I ain't lyin' to ya)
(I'm only gonna tell you one time-ya!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Yes I am! Yeah!)

Woo!

Woo!

You know I, I found the simple life
Weren't so simple, no
When I jumped out, on that road
Got no love, no love you'd call real
Got nobody, waitin' at home

(Ah, yeah!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Hold on. Hold on, I'm runnin'! Ah, yeah!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Uh! Uh! Come on, one more time)



(Ha-yeah!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Oh, yeah! Ya-yeah!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Woo! Woo!)
Runnin' with the devil
(Ah-ha, yeah! Ah-ha, yeah! Ah-hah, yeah!)
Runnin' with the devil (Woo!)
--------------------

Whoa, that will teach me.....I was laughing so hard I almost choked on my jalapeno cheese roll...
:eek:

I just have to get Howard to do the 'WOO' part of the song.

[Logan]

Richard, this morning I was listening to the local talk radio program as I was driving home from taking Helen to school. This guy called in and said he was reading his Newsweek magazine yesterday and there was an article about the election. When asked about all the endorsements that John Kerry got recently, Al Sharpton said that "the only people who need cosigners have bad credit" or something to that affect! He is just too funny!!! :D

[mugsy]

I didn't see the debate last night, but I guess when Sharpton was asked about the federal reserve the only thing he could come up with was that he would fire Greenspan! lol

They were talking about it on Imus this morning and he was interviewing Andrea Mitchell (Greenspan's wife) and he asked if she was concerned about Sharpton's comment (tongue firmly implanted in cheek) and she just laughed and said that they weren't too worried.

Between Dean and Sharpton, they are making a mockery out of this election and making the Democrats look REALLY bad.

[2kitties]

Dean did the top 10 list last night on Letterman. Hilarious.

[2kitties]

Okay. If anybody thinks that by electing Howard Dean, they will be ridding themselves of the popular Bushisms, they are wrong.

Let the Deanisms Begin:
Dean Has Warts (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/23/dean.interview/index.html)

[RICHARD]

I saw that George Bush was out at the Roe versus Wade rally........


Are people really THAT stupid......


If you Roe,you stay dry.:confused:

[RICHARD]

Dean: 'I have all kinds of warts'



"But there's nothing I can do about it. I did
it. I own it. And now we have to get back
to running for president."

"Was it over the top? Sure, it was over the
top. Do I do things that are a little nutty?
Sure, I do things that are a little nutty. But
the truth is, I was having a great time."

"I'm not apologetic because I was giving
everything to people who gave everything
to me."

The Monday speech lost Dean the
endorsement of Alvaro Cifuentes, the
chairman of the Democratic National
Committee's Hispanic caucus.

"I have been struggling for the past 48
hours with the performance I saw on TV. I
instinctively turned it off after the first few
minutes. I respectfully withdraw my
present endorsement to Dean's
candidacy," Cifuentes wrote in e-mail to
the Dean campaign.

---------------------

LOLOLOL...


I'm nutty, I want to be your president.

It took Senor Cifuentes a few minutes to figure a way to distance himself from what happened during the Iowa CACAS..........


His sense of smell must be off.:eek:

[Lady's Human]

After that performance I can just see Dean at a summit meeting........LOL . I'd rather have a cowboy in office than a pro wrestler

[Soledad]

I am so glad Dean showed his true colors. The man is a walking volcano.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Lady's Human

LOL . I'd rather have a cowboy in office than a pro wrestler


lol,

At least you know pro wrestlers are lying.............;)

[Soledad]

A Yale educated cowboy is not cowboy at all.

[2kitties]

Hey, whatever happened to that guy- the wrestler in Minnesota. I know he didn't run again, but why? I recall him being popular??? Ventura, was that his name?

[moosmom]

*sigh* I SAID I would never talk about sex, politics or religion, but I just HAVE to comment.

Originally posted by Soledad:


I am so glad Dean showed his true colors. The man is a walking volcano

Sounds like he forgot to take his Prozac!!

If Al Sharpton wins, I am SO outta here!! (New Zealand sounds like a nice place). I wonder if Dr. Kevorkian can get calls from prison??

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Hey, whatever happened to that guy- the wrestler in Minnesota. I know he didn't run again, but why? I recall him being popular??? Ventura, was that his name?

Jesse "The Body" Ventura has retired from politics and is now a pitch man for some phone service that allows people to be really lazy...;)

Al Sharpton?

Win????

Visit NZ, but don't sell your house.

This guy is another Don King.....

IF he had any shame he wouldn't bother.........there are stories about that Al has stiffed quite a few of the people who have trusted him...

Hotel bills, limo services and the like.....

[mugsy]

Let the games begin today!! NH is next....

Any prognostications?

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy
Let the games begin today!! NH is next....

Any prognostications?

I go with the guy that does the states and yells at the end....:confused:

[2kitties]

I have a question about Al Sharpton. What does he do for a living? I mean, clearly he's a public figure, but I don't know that he has a job per se. What pays his mortgage and buys his kitty litter?

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I have a question about Al Sharpton. What does he do for a living? I mean, clearly he's a public figure, but I don't know that he has a job per se. What pays his mortgage and buys his kitty litter?


Reverend, activist and politician?

[2kitties]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Reverend, activist and politician?
Right, but who signs his paycheck.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Right, but who signs his paycheck.

From what I understand he has the same kind of system that Jesse Jackson uses......

Jackson used the claims of racism to gain a Coca-Cola dealership (?) in the south for his son......

There has always been claims that Sharpton strong arms business and companies to 'settle' his claims ....by donations or some other skeezy under-the-table deals......that way he can keep his 'church' going......he uses those funds to keep him dressed and traveling.....

I saw where he has raised 283,000 dollars to run for president..when you see Dean, Kerry and the other merry men running a campaign with war chests in the millions....it makes you wonder, eh?

[Logan]

Politics (democratic) are running rampant in SC right now! There will be a debate, here in Greenville, SC, tonight. Even Tom Browkaw from NBC is here with his nightly news, and will moderate the debate tonight.

:confused: because I don't do the whole democratic thing

[RICHARD]

I am sad that David Letterman dropped out of the race....

[joycenalex]

...february, march, april, may, june, july, august, september, october, november...is just TOO LONG TO CAMPAIGN. why can't we do this as the British do for their elections? sigh, 8 1/2 months of campaign commericials....argh

[RICHARD]

Now it's a two horse race.....

We just have to wait to see who will come up lame.....

Yep a whole spring and summer of stupid campaign ads.....I wonder what they will scare us with this time around????

[G.P.girl]

Go John Edwards! too bad i can't vote yet:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by G.P.girl
Go John Edwards! too bad i can't vote yet:rolleyes:


For twenty bucks I'll sell you mine!:)




(That was a JOKE, I know it's against the law to sell a vote.......)

[joycenalex]

Originally posted by RICHARD
For twenty bucks I'll sell you mine!:)




(That was a JOKE, I know it's against the law to sell a vote.......)
...and so cheaply too.... :p

[G.P.girl]

Originally posted by RICHARD
For twenty bucks I'll sell you mine!:)




(That was a JOKE, I know it's against the law to sell a vote.......)
lol!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by joycenalex
...and so cheaply too.... :p

I'm a capitalist, but I can't gouge the kid....:cool:
:)

[moosmom]

I'd rather eat cat poop with sand in it than vote for Bush!!!

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by moosmom
I'd rather eat cat poop with sand in it than vote for Bush!!!

ME TOO! :p

[RICHARD]

who is Ralph Nader and what does he want from us???


I hear he will be touring the U.S. in a
Corvair...:rolleyes:

[Logan]

Originally posted by moosmom
I'd rather eat cat poop with sand in it than vote for Bush!!!

Why don't you tell us how you really feel, Donna?? ;)

[PJ's Mom]

Originally posted by moosmom
I'd rather eat cat poop with sand in it than vote for Bush!!!

Amen!! :p :D

[ILoveReptiles]

Originally posted by moosmom
I'd rather eat cat poop with sand in it than vote for Bush!!!

I second that!

[Corinna]

ok I just received a word from the great beyond . Pat Paulson wants in the race . I guess I had better get by shirt out of the closet.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Corinna
ok I just received a word from the great beyond . Pat Paulson wants in the race . I guess I had better get by shirt out of the closet.
Pat Paulson!!!!!


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....

One vote here!!

[RICHARD]

Take bribes, steal, cheat, lie, assasinate character, throw mud, know where the bodies are buried, keep skeletons in your closet.....


Criminals???


No!

Politicians!!

lololol,

The Lyndon LaRouche people were out in force last night..

Who is Lyndon LaRouche and what does he want from us...;)

[K9soul]

Hey, I voted for Ventura! :p. He didn't do a bad job besides being too blunt, which is a no no for politicians these days, but something that was kinda refreshing actually. We got a nice tax return the year he was voted in! :D (MN apparently had excess taxes from the year before... some candidates wanted to use it for something else, but Ventura was for returning it back to the people. Probably why he won!)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by K9soul
Hey, I voted for Ventura! :p.

Our governator didn't do too bad this election...
he got his propositions passed and there is a feeling of better things up the road for us......

The waiting is the hardest part!

[Logan]

I hope the "governator" will do good things in Cal-e-for-nee-a, Richard. ;) I sincerely do!!!

I like our governor too. He doesn't worry too much about who he steps on. He just says it like it is and he throws a lot of ideas out there for people to "chew" on. His name is Mark Sanford, and hopefully he will have time to do what he has set out to do for our state (meaning hopefully he will have a second term to see some of these ideas through, since our last two governors, one Republican, one Democrat, have only had one term each).

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Logan
I hope the "governator" will do good things in Cal-e-for-nee-a, Richard. ;) I sincerely do!!!

I like our governor too. He doesn't worry too much about who he steps on. He just says it like it is and he throws a lot of ideas out there for people to "chew" on. His name is Mark Sanford

What movies has he starred in?;)

I think the move of the future will be toward more politicians like Sanford...trying to get things done for the people in the state..good luck!

[Logan]

Originally posted by RICHARD
What movies has he starred in?;)

I think the move of the future will be toward more politicians like Sanford...trying to get things done for the people in the state..good luck!

We can only hope, huh, Richard?? What I remember most about Mark Sanford is that when he was in the US House of Representatives, he slept in his office to save money. I liked him immediately, although he wasn't my representative. :)

[Pam]

Originally posted by Corinna
ok I just received a word from the great beyond . Pat Paulson wants in the race . I guess I had better get by shirt out of the closet.

Oh my gosh! Pat Paulson - now that's a name from the past!! LOL! LOL! That was a long time ago! :)



(Is he even still alive?) :eek:

[RICHARD]

No, he passed away....

http://www.paulsen.com/:(

[Pam]

Originally posted by RICHARD
No, he passed away....

http://www.paulsen.com/:(


:(

[RICHARD]

They good ones go away and we get stuck with Ralph Nader..

This is from the site......it made me laugh and wonder what four, maybe eight years would have been like with him at the helm..

"......answering the too-serious questions with shoulders shrugged: "How the hell do I know? I'm just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny."

[RICHARD]

1.) Never vote or support a man with-
a. a funny haircut
b. who parts his hair on the side.

2.) Can't spell

3.) Lies about interns

4.) Can link Iran and Contra in a sentence.

5.) Has wooden teeth.

6.) Has the slogan, Tippecanoe and Tyler Too!
;)

[G.P.girl]

Originally posted by RICHARD
1.) Never vote or support a man with-
a. a funny haircut
b. who parts his hair on the side.


do you ever vote? ;)

[RICHARD]

This is the bumper sticker on the door of the Kerry/Edwards campaign bus....

Driver,
Kerry's know money.






:confused:

[RICHARD]

Here's another way to base your vote on....

Bike riding....I just heard that Kerry went for a bike ride before he addresses the Dem Convention.

A few days ago GWB took another header while riding his bike....


Where is my vote going?


Lance Armstrong, Of course!
;)

[leslie flenner]

and yes I was aware and saddened by that... Don't know whether to vote for Tiny Tim or Snoopy and The Red Baron.

[RICHARD]

I heard that Bruce Springsteen and a few other artist have scheduled a series of concerts in the 'swing' states in order to influence the election this year.

What a novel idea....seriously!

-------------------------

I heard this the other day....

Have you ever seen ANY of the liberals in the movie/music industry run and WIN a political seat??

:confused:

No wonder they are bitter about the current administration.;)

[RICHARD]

I LOVE politics........

It's tired old men arguing about where they were 30 years ago.

I will vote for the first muffin who promises to do something about

Healthcare, gas prices, campaign spending and the border...

Not in that order and he has to mention at least three topics.



I'm just saying that so I don't have to vote.;) :p :o :confused:

-------------------------------------------

And MY personal favorite bumper sticker.

Re-defeat George Bush.:D

[Karen]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I'm just saying that so I don't have to vote.;) :p :o :confused:

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

If you do not vote, then you have no right to complain about or poke fun at anything in politics.

Yes, I'm serious, even though this is the Dog House. There's nothing funny about people not voting.

[dukedogsmom]

I don't let musicians sway my vote. I can't believe people are that gullible! I don't guess I'll post my view here. I will say I'm more than likely in the minority.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Karen
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

If you do not vote, then you have no right to complain about or poke fun at anything in politics.



And pass on four years of the best comedy on the planet??

naw.......:D

[RICHARD]

Public disobedience is!!

I was watching the wrap up for the Monday Night football game last night.

One of the 'highlights' was a clip of a man with a GWB/04 poster
standing curbside.

From camera left a man, with a Kerry poster, walks up to him and clocks him on the side of the head, from behind...

I don't know what may have happened before the incident took place but I sure am glad that there was a cop in the background.
-------------------------------------------------------

The other thing that makes me laugh were the 250 cyclists that were arrested a few days ago.

At the end of their peaceful demonstration one gal is being interviewed and she claims that the police 'just arrested'
her co-horts.

Blocking the roads and disobeying and order to disperse is enough to get you arrested. That's one of the first things you learn in Public Disobedience 101.

Ya gotta love democracy.;)

[lizzielou742]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9567757.htm

Posted on Fri, Sep. 03, 2004

Bush Glosses Over Complex Facts in Speech

CALVIN WOODWARD

Associated Press

NEW YORK - President Bush glossed over some complicating realities in Iraq, Afghanistan and the home front in arguing the case Americans are safer and his opponent cannot deliver.

On Iraq, Bush talked of a 30-member alliance standing shoulder to shoulder with the United States, masking the fact that U.S. troops are pulling by far most of the weight. On Afghanistan and its neighbors, he gave an accounting of captured or killed terrorists, but did not address the replenishment of their ranks - or the still-missing Osama bin Laden.

Bush's acceptance speech Thursday night conveyed facts that told only part of the story, hardly unusual for this most political of occasions.

He took some license in telling Americans that Democratic opponent John Kerry "is running on a platform of increasing taxes."

Kerry would, in fact, raise taxes on the richest Americans but as part of a plan to keep the Bush tax cuts for everyone else and even cut some of them more. That's not a tax-increase platform any more than Bush's plan for private retirement accounts is a platform to reduce Social Security benefits.

And on education, Bush voiced an inherent contradiction, dating back to his 2000 campaign, in stating his stout support for local control of education, yet promising to toughen federal standards that override local decision-making.

"We are insisting on accountability, empowering parents and teachers, and making sure that local people are in charge of their schools," he said, on one hand. Yet, "we will require a rigorous exam before graduation."

On Iraq, Bush derided Kerry for devaluing the alliance that drove out Saddam Hussein and is trying to rebuild the country. "Our allies also know the historic importance of our work," Bush said. "About 40 nations stand beside us in Afghanistan, and some 30 in Iraq."

But the United States has more than five times the number of troops in Iraq than all the other countries put together. And, with 976 killed, Americans have suffered nearly eight times more deaths than the other allies combined.

Bush aggressively defended progress in Afghanistan, too. "Today, the government of a free Afghanistan is fighting terror, Pakistan is capturing terrorist leaders ... and more than three-quarters of al-Qaida's key members and associates have been detained or killed. We have led, many have joined, and America and the world are safer."

Nowhere did Bush mention bin Laden, nor did he account for the replacement of killed and captured al al-Qaida leaders by others.

He attacked Kerry for voting against an $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan operations that included money for extra sets of body armor and other supplies, mocking his opponent for saying the issue was complicated. "There's nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat," Bush said.

But the bill in question was not solely about supporting troops and Kerry's campaign said he ultimately voted against it because, among other reasons, it included no-bid contracts for companies.

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, who tracks the accuracy of campaign rhetoric at the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg School for Communication, said Bush overstepped on a few claims about Kerry.

"The speech distorts Kerry's positions by suggesting that he opposed Medicare reform when he instead favored an alternative, and opposed tax cuts for all when he in fact supported the middle class cuts and opposed cuts for those making more than $200,000," she said.

And on Bush's second-term domestic initiatives, she was not surprised to find missing dollar signs.

"One expects acceptance speeches to make grand promises without specifying the ways that the money will be raised to pay for them," she said. "This speech is no exception."

----------------------
I was dissapointed in Bush's speech. It seemed like nothing special, just a standard speech he probably gives 10 times a week. Just watching him speak turns my stomach.

And the $87,000,000,000.00 (http://www.crunchweb.net/87billion/) - come on! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: To say John Kerry doesn't support American troops is just absurd. John Kerry voted against the funding package because Bush didn't provide a way to pay for it. His concerns are well founded. The national debt (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm) is out of control, as is Bush's budget deficit (http://defazio.house.gov/020304BURelease.shtml). And it's people my age who have to worry about inheriting it. Anyway, the bill Kerry preferred would have simply passed the funding but offset it by rolling back tax cuts for those making over $200,000 a year. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/shared/news/politics/stories/04/11flipflop.html). George W. Bush himself threatened to veto $87 billion in funding for operations in Iraq. If the money wasn't provided in exactly the way Bush requested, he threatened to veto the bill. In other words, Bush did the exact same thing that he is criticizing Kerry for doing. Bush argued for a particular set of requirements for how the money would be appropriated and was willing to oppose the funding package if he didn't get his way (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/30/politics/main580877.shtml). Kerry's vote was not a flip-flop. He voting for a spending proposal when it was responsibly funded and against it when it wasn't. That does not show indecision. It shows a basic understanding about public policy. I don't believe here is anything contradictory or weak about changing your vote based on how things are funded. :rolleyes:

Can't wait 'til the August jobs report comes out today.

Can't wait until the 1,000th American casualty in Iraq is named (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm).

Can't wait to see Ben Barnes (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/01/barnes60minutes/index_np.html) on 60 Minutes on September 12th.

Can't wait until Kitty Kelley (http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/thefamily/)'s book comes out 14th September.

Can't wait until Fahreheit 9/11 comes out on DVD October 5th.

Can't wait until November 2nd.

:p

[Logan]

Can't wait until the 1,000th American casualty in Iraq is named (http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit..._casualties.htm).

You can't wait?? :( :( :( I'm sure our soldiers appreciate your great support. :( :( :(

[lizzielou742]

I can't wait for the public reaction. It's already happened, but they don't make it official until the names are released.

Come on, of course I didn't mean it like that. :rolleyes:

That's another thing that bugs me - when people assume because I don't support the President, I don't support the troops. The current administration would like you to believe I'm a traitor because I want to get the coalition troops out of harm's way and bring them home ASAP. :rolleyes:

[Logan]

I was only responding to what you wrote, and it certainly appeared that you were "hoping" for more deaths in order to make the President look bad. I prefer other ways of making a person look bad than that. Unfortunately, in forums like this, when reading, it is hard to tell what one means. Of course we all want our soldiers to come home safely! I appreciate their dedication and loyalty to this country during a period that we need to defend it against terrorism.

And if Kitty Kelley's book is the way we choose to elect a President, then this country is in a heap more trouble than we thought. I liked this quote that I found on the internet regarding her writing. I guess we can find and believe whatever we want to in the long run:


Kitty Kelley (born April 4, 1942) is an American author, journalist and biographer — famous for her tabloid-esque approach to biography writing, and her books often contain many embarrassing and sordid anecdotes about the people she profiles. Kelley will name some sources, conceals other if she feels it necessary, passes on some rumors and scotches some others. Like most muckrakers Kelley's truthfulness has been called into question. She has had the tables turned on her by George Carpozi, Jr. with his 1997 book Poison Pen -- but it likely didn't have the effect expected Her most famous biographies were of Frank Sinatra, Nancy Reagan, and the British Royal Family. One on the Bush family is due in 2004, after Labor Day. Less famous are her books on Elizabeth Taylor and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis.

[RICHARD]

Honey, Bill Clinton is stealing all our press with his damn heart.....

DO SOMETHING!!!!!!:eek:

[RICHARD]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20040915/ap_on_el_pr/heinz_kerry_1&printer=1

This story made me smile....

Nothing like getting the blessing to prance around the Carribean
naked as a newborn....


I'm sure Ms Kerry Heinz wouldn't mind to show us how....
:D

[Logan]

:D

[Pam]

Don't even get me started on "the pickle and ketchup lady!" What an embarrassment she would be as a first lady. She may have a big bank account but the woman has no class. :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think it would be a nice change to have a first lady who isn't a doormat for her barbaric and misogynistic husband! One who knows something of the world and is willing to speak her OWN mind and not just parrot the ignorance around her!

Laura is just such a .....nothing....

[Pam]

But Sara, tell us how you really feel. :p :rolleyes:

[mugsy]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
[url]Can't wait until the 1,000th American casualty in Iraq is named

The ignorance of that statement is unbelievable! And I wonder why I have pretty much stopped posting....

Stupid statements like this one give anti-war people a bad name.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Just don't understand why vapid would be preferable to zesty. Spare us another Nancy Reagan gazing -- as if in a trance -- at her husband. I'll take a Betty Ford any day! :p :)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
One who knows something of the world and is willing to speak her OWN mind and not just parrot the ignorance around her!



So she speaks of her own ignorance?

:confused:

I love zesty women, a little ketchup and MMMMMMM GOOD!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
I'll take a Betty Ford any day! :p :)

SO....
I guess that leaves me with a....

Tricia Toyota!!


I came home one night tuned my T.V. in
my favorite show was about to begin
as I was scanning across the dial
I saw her read the news with delectable style
Then I was sure that within a while

I was Stuck
Stuck in a pagoda
with Tricia Toyota
I'm Stuck
We were watching Abe Vigoda
then every thing will be fine

Later that night we went for a drive
and I can say I never felt more alive
taking in the sights of old Tokyo
with Tricia by my side and money to blow
I knew then I never wanted to let her go

-----------------------------------------------


Tricia Toyota is a real person. She was a newsanchor for CBS for years, here in the southland. She was a source of bitterness to my old girlfriend. I wanted to get a personalized license plate with "Tricia" on it for my new TOYOTA truck......

After a few days of fighting with the GF about "who is this Tricia??" I explained it to her, when she agreed, I gave up.....

:D ;) :confused: :cool: :)

[RICHARD]

First

Tah-raise-sa wants the kids in the Carribean to run around in the buff,

Then
John-boy insults the acting Bigwig of Iraq when he
offers his thanks the the Senate, Congress and People of America for sending troops to his country..

Tsk, Tsk Senor Kerry!

That's why they call it foreign RELATIONS....
You have to get along with the other kids in the class.


Those wild and crazy kids!

-----------------------------------------------

One thing about Nancy Reagan.

She was a class act during the week that Ronald died. No matter what her politics are, who her husband was or how she 'gazed' at
her hubby...............

Nothing touched me more than watching her break down on the casket on the day of the funeral.

I think every woman wants to be the First Lady....

Second place is no fun.

[Pam]

Well, I personally can't wait for the debates and especially the VP debate. I think once they get past asking Edwards what conditioner he uses on his hair he will be out of answers. I almost feel embarrassed for him. :o

[Edwina's Secretary]

{shakes head and looks with bemusement}

there you go again......

Theresa said that food and water are more important than clothing at this moment to the people devastated by the hurricane. Everyone is sending clothes when what they need is potable water and food.

Sort of like Pollyanna and the crutches......

and people with unsavory intent twist her words to suggest...

Tah-raise-sa wants the kids in the Carribean to run around in the buff

tsk, tsk, tsk.

And then making fun of people who speak in accented English.

tsk, tsk, tsk....

Let's send them some more wool coats.....

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think once they get past asking Edwards what conditioner he uses on his hair he will be out of answers.

They could ask him how it feels to have more government experience than the current appointed president???

Okay Pam...I like you too much to continue this. Let's make a deal. If we ever meet, we WON'T talk politics!

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Pam
Well, I personally can't wait for the debates and especially the VP debate. I think once they get past asking Edwards what conditioner he uses on his hair he will be out of answers. I almost feel embarrassed for him. :o

Oh Pam, you can't be serious, can you? Please say no. :eek:

I personally can't wait till Dick Cheney tells John Edwards to go
F**** himself during the debate. Talk about crude.

[CalliesMom]

http://www.insultmonger.com/assorted/george_w_bush_dumb_quotes.htm

This is our president. :rolleyes:

[Soledad]

Originally posted by Pam
Well, I personally can't wait for the debates and especially the VP debate. I think once they get past asking Edwards what conditioner he uses on his hair he will be out of answers. I almost feel embarrassed for him. :o

There are people dying because of this administration and the way they've misled the public. All you can think of is this petty and completely inconsequential tidbit?

If you're going to be so completely out of tune with what's important you could at least be original and funny about it...:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
Oh Pam, you can't be serious, can you? Please say no. :eek:

I personally can't wait till Dick Cheney tells John Edwards to go
F**** himself during the debate. Talk about crude.


The actual term was EFF OFF...

:confused:

I think you have twisted his words around.;)

------------------------

Soledad,

I think Pam's line about Edward's hair was really funny.....by the way where is other half of the ticket???

Is he grounded?????

Would you care to say WMDs, Bush lied and Texas National Guard again???

--------------------------

Edwina,

I'm not making fun of people with accents.....My dad had one....

It's that Tah raise a is too close to "da risa"....

[DJFyrewolf36]

This thread will always make me go :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by DJFyrewolf36
This thread will always make me go :rolleyes:


Keep doing that and your eyes are gonna STAY that way...........:o

[DJFyrewolf36]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Keep doing that and your eyes are gonna STAY that way...........:o
No loss, makes me blend in with the rest of my Cow-orkers lol :D

[tatsxxx11]

I think Pam's line about Edward's hair was really funny.....by the way where is other half of the ticket???

He's in an "undisclosed location" along with the Prince of Darkness, Dick Cheney until the debates :p FYI, he'll be on Imus on Wednesday, was on Larry King last week.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
He's in an "undisclosed location" along with the Prince of Darkness, Dick Cheney until the debates :p

Dick Cheney??

Who's he??? ;)

He better not be trying to horn in on the Prince of Darkness moniker..........

That's my AOL account name....:cool:

--------------------

I can't listen to Imus.......I'm a Howard Stern fan.:D

[tatsxxx11]

I can't listen to Imus.......I'm a Howard Stern fan

I knew it, I just knew it!!!:D :p

Acutally, Imus voted for Bush last go round and is "currently" if not enthusiastically, backing Kerry. His favored choices would be John McCain or Joe Biden.

[mugsy]

I vote they both go away...far far away. I can't remember an election where I actually liked one of the candidates, but, this one is nearly as bad as the 2000 election's choices. Maybe I'll just vote for Nadar! lol I don't think either one of them has an honest bone in their bodies. It has to be pretty bad when the most stimulating conversation is about the first ladies and the conditioner that Edwards uses (I thought it was hysterical too Pam)....and I even LIKE Edwards!! (at least more than anybody else involved in this election).

[Miss Meow]

Originally posted by mugsy
I vote they both go away...far far away. I can't remember an election where I actually liked one of the candidates, but, this one is nearly as bad as the 2000 election's choices. Maybe I'll just vote for Nadar! lol I don't think either one of them has an honest bone in their bodies. It has to be pretty bad when the most stimulating conversation is about the first ladies and the conditioner that Edwards uses (I thought it was hysterical too Pam)....and I even LIKE Edwards!! (at least more than anybody else involved in this election).

Psssst, Molly, this ain't the football thread?!?! ;) :D

[mugsy]

Pssst.....Nicole.....I posted both places!! hehehe

[RICHARD]

I am really looking forward to the debates tomorrow night.

I'm just trying to figure out what to wear.....
Since I plan to listen to John Kerry very closely I might as well
put on my pajamas, sit back and enjoy a hearty breakfast.....



He'll be serving up "waffles", won't he???

:rolleyes: :confused: :eek: :p :D

[Soledad]

Hmmm...waffles. Hilarious. Another original comment.

I suppose I'd rather have waffles than tax cuts for the rich, more dead and injured American soldiers and no job growth. :p :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
Hmmm...waffles. Hilarious. Another original comment.

I suppose I'd rather have waffles than tax cuts for the rich, more dead and injured American soldiers and no job growth. :p :rolleyes:

Or ketchup and pickles on the side???

I'm glad you think I'm funny.........I strikeout when it comes to "cute"..:(

I WAS thinking of something dramatically sweet for your birthday....But, people would talk.;)


I'm not really looking forward to job growth, I do way too much already.

As far as the soldiers go......No jokes about this.....

Why does each side have to use them as pawns in the political game? I was watching an interview with Ms. Edwards and some other gal that stumping for her...

The other gal had two kids in the service, one in the Marines...

When the BHBB (Bubble Headed Bleach Blonde) asked her why she supported Kerry, who voted for the war but nixxed the 87 billion zillion dollars that would have gone for more, better materials for her sons she said something like, "Bush didn't have a plan to spend the money..."

WTF??????

You'll support someone who took the equipment out of your son's hands because they have a plan and the Prez doesn't????

When her son comes back in the aluminum casket she'll be crying that her son didn't have the right equipment and blame anyone except Kerry...

I yelled at the TV set for a few more moments and then I laughed at her friggin ignorance.

There have been different stories posted about military material shortages/makeshift fixes......Pistol magazines, the 'fences' on Bradley Fighting Vehicles and welding metal plates on the sides of Humvees because soldiers weren't sent with proper equipment.

Yes, Dubya is partially to blame for that....But, it's up to us and the morons (like John Kerry) in Washington to make sure they get WHAT they need.

Waffles.......I tried to put a twist on the old 'waffle' joke....It just doesn't seem right to suggest or call Kerry names.

But,I did see they new Dem Mascot....they axed the donkey and brought back the "pushme, pullyou" from Dr Doolittle....


Kinda apropo, doncha think?

[Soledad]

Kerry didn't object to giving the troops $87 million, he disagreed with the way it was going to be paid for. It happens all the time. The President should know, he's done it any number of times.

I'd also like to know just how much of that $87 million went straight to the soldies in terms of payment and equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to pay for things like personal body armor before doing other things?

I think it's despicable that this President can talk about supporting the troops while cutting their funeral and imminent danger pay and claiming he raised military pay when he absolutely did not (see quote).



President Bush's Department of Defense (DOD) budget increase of $14.2 billion (4.8%) over FY 2001 levels is essentially identical to the increase proposed by President Clinton in January. Although President Bush's DOD budget of $310.5 is $100 million above President Clinton's January budget, it includes the transfer of the Maritime Security Program - a program authorized at $100 million a year - from the Maritime Administration to the DOD. As a result, the net "increase" above the Clinton budget is zero.

[Soledad]

Also, I hear Bush can cook up some pretty good waffles of his own. Here's a tip: when trying to discuss politics, try not to just read off of the RNC's talking points...



Nation Building and the War in Iraq

During the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush argued against nation building and foreign military entanglements. In the second presidential debate, he said: "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.'"

The United States is currently involved in nation building in Iraq on a scale unseen since the years immediately following World War II.

During the 2000 election, Mr. Bush called for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from the NATO peacekeeping mission in the Balkans. His administration now cites such missions as an example of how America must "stay the course."


Iraq and the Sept. 11 Attacks

In a press conference in September 2002, six months before the invasion of Iraq, President Bush said, “you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror... they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive.”

In September of 2004, Mr. Bush said: “We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11th." Though he added that “there's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties,” the statement seemingly belied earlier assertions that Saddam and al Qaeda were “equally bad.”

The Sept. 11 commission found there was no evidence Saddam was linked to the 9/11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.


The Sept. 11 Commission

President Bush initially opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 attacks. In May 2002, he said, “Since it deals with such sensitive information, in my judgment, it's best for the ongoing war against terror that the investigation be done in the intelligence committee.”

Bowing to pressure from victims' families, Mr. Bush reversed his position. The following September, he backed an independent investigation.


Free Trade

During the 2000 presidential election, Mr. Bush championed free trade. Then, eyeing campaign concerns that allowed him to win West Virginia, he imposed 30 percent tariffs on foreign steel products from Europe and other nations in March 2002.

Twenty-one months later, Mr. Bush changed his mind and rescinded the steel tariffs. Choosing to stand on social issues instead of tariffs in steel country – Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia – the Bush campaign decided it could afford to upset the steel industry rather than further estrange old alliances.


Homeland Security Department

President Bush initially opposed creating a new Department of Homeland Security. He wanted Tom Ridge, now the secretary of Homeland Security, to remain an adviser.

Mr. Bush reversed himself and backed the largest expansion of the federal government since the creation of the Defense Department in 1949.


Same-Sex Marriage

During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Bush said he was against federal intervention regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. In an interview with CNN's Larry King, he said, states "can do what they want to do" on the issue. Vice President Cheney took the same stance.

Four year later, this past February, Mr. Bush announced his support for an amendment to the Constitution that defines marriage as being exclusively between men and women. The amendment would forbid states from doing "what they want to do" on same-sex marriage.

Citing recent decisions by “activist judges” in states like Massachusetts, Mr. Bush defended his reversal. Critics point out that well before the 2000 presidential race, a judge in Hawaii ruled in December 1996 that there was no compelling reason for withholding marriage from same-sex couples.


Winning the War on Terror

"I don't think you can win it," Mr. Bush said of the war on terror in August. In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, he said, “I think you can create conditions so that . . . those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

Before the month closed, Mr. Bush reversed himself at the American Legion national convention in Nashville. He said: "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win." He later added, “we are winning, and we will win."


Campaign Finance Reform

President Bush was initially against the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform bill. He opposed any soft-money limits on individuals to national parties.

But Mr. Bush later signed McCain-Feingold into law. The law, named for Senate sponsors John McCain, R-Ariz., and Russell Feingold, D-Wis., barred both national parties from collecting soft money from individuals.

During the 2000 race, Mr. Bush showed support for the so-called 527 groups’ right to air advertising.

In March 2000, he told CBS News' "Face the Nation," "There have been ads, independent expenditures, that are saying bad things about me. I don't particularly care when they do, but that's what freedom of speech is all about.”

In late August of this year, in an effort to distance himself from controversial anti-Kerry ads by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Mr. Bush reversed his position, announcing he would join McCain in legal action to stop these "shadowy" organizations.

Though it would close the Swift Boat group's funding, court action would also silence well-funded liberal 527 organizations like MoveOn.org and America Coming Together.


Gas Prices

Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that's been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton “must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.”

As gas topped a record level of $50 a barrel this week, Mr. Bush has shown no propensity to personally pressure, or “jawbone,” Mideast oil producers to increase output.

A spokesman for the president reportedly said in March that Mr. Bush will not personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds.

[lizzielou742]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/29/MNGE590O711.DTL

President Bush portrays his position on Iraq as steady and unwavering as he represents Sen. John Kerry's stance as ambiguous and vacillating.

"Mixed signals are the wrong signals,'' Bush said last week during a campaign stop in Bangor, Maine. "I will continue to lead with clarity, and when I say something, I'll mean what I say.''

Yet, heading into the first presidential debate Thursday, which will focus on foreign affairs, there is much in the public record to suggest that Bush's words on Iraq have evolved -- or, in the parlance his campaign often uses to describe Kerry, flip-flopped.

An examination of more than 150 of Bush's speeches, radio addresses and responses to reporters' questions reveal a steady progression of language, mostly to reflect changing circumstances such as the failure to discover weapons of mass destruction, the lack of ties between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network and the growing violence of Iraqi insurgents.

A war that was waged principally to overthrow a dictator who possessed "some of the most lethal weapons ever devised'' has evolved into a mission to rid Iraq of its "weapons-making capabilities'' and to offer democracy and freedom to its 25 million residents.

The president no longer expounds upon deposed Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein's connections with al Qaeda, rarely mentions the rape and torture rooms or the illicit weapons factories that he once warned posed a direct threat to the United States.

In the fall of 2002, as Bush sought congressional support for the use of force, he described the vote as a sign of solidarity that would strengthen his ability to keep the peace. Today, his aides describe it unambiguously as a vote to go to war.

Whether such shifts constitute a reasonable evolution of language to reflect the progression of war, or an about-face to justify unmet expectations, is a subjective judgment tinged by partisan prejudice.

Yet a close look at the record makes it difficult to support Bush campaign chairman Ken Mehlman's description of the upcoming debate as a "square-off between resolve and optimism versus vacillation and defeatism.''

A careful reading of Bush's statements on Iraq reveals many instances of consistency, just as The Chronicle's examination of Kerry's words found consistency in the Democratic challenger's statements. Over and over, Bush stated that the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, changed the way Americans -- including the commander in chief -- viewed the threat of terrorism and lowered the threshold of risk Americans were willing to accept.

"Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take,'' Bush said in a well-received speech before the U.N. General Assembly on Sept 12, 2002.

Bush echoed those words earlier this month as he accepted his party's nomination for president a few miles away, at Madison Square Garden in New York:

"Do I forget the lessons of September the 11th and take the word of a madman, or do I take action to defend our country? Faced with that choice, I will defend America every time.''

Yet the more specific explanation of a mission that has cost more than 1, 000 American lives, thousands of Iraqi lives and well over $100 billion has undergone a transformation.

Prior to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, Bush focused on weapons of mass destruction and stated the U.S. goal in straightforward terms.

"Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it would mean regime change,'' Bush said at a news conference two weeks before he took the nation to war.

"And our mission won't change,'' Bush continued. "Our mission is precisely what I just stated.''

Six weeks later, speaking to workers at an Army tank plant in Ohio, the goal seemed to expand.

"Our mission -- besides removing the regime that threatened us, besides ending a place where the terrorists could find a friend, besides getting rid of weapons of mass destruction -- our mission has been to bring humanitarian aid and restore basic services and put this country, Iraq, on the road to self- government.''

Last month, speaking to supporters at a campaign event in Wisconsin, Bush put it more plainly: "The goal in Iraq and Afghanistan is for there to be democratic and free countries who are allies in the war on terror. That's the goal.''

In the course of the campaign, such shifts have been characterized by Bush's opponents as lies.

"He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war,'' Kerry said during a speech at New York University last week in which he said Bush has offered 23 different rationales for going to war. "If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded.''

The count comes from a study conducted by an honors thesis written by a University of Illinois student, which actually attributed 19 rationales -- none mutually exclusive -- to Bush and four others to members of his administration.

Most of the rationales were on the table from the beginning. What changed was the emphasis.

Bush voiced no doubt from the beginning that Hussein possessed chemical, biological and potentially nuclear weapons.

"Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks, to build and keep weapons of mass destruction,'' Bush said in his State of the Union address in January 2003.

By the following year, after no such weapons had been discovered and evidence suggested that much of the intelligence was wrong, Bush had toned down such talk and begun to speak of the "threat'' of Hussein developing such weapons.

In his State of the Union address last January, Bush spoke of Hussein's "mass destruction-related program activities."

"Look, there is no doubt that Saddam Husein was a dangerous person,'' the president told ABC's Diane Sawyer in an interview several weeks before that speech. "And there's no doubt we had a body of evidence providing that. And there is no doubt that the president must act, after 9/11, to make America a more secure country.''

Sawyer asked the president about the distinction between the "hard fact that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons.''

"So what's the difference?'' Bush responded. "The possibility that he could acquire weapons, if he were to acquire weapons, he would be the danger.''

"What would it take to convince you he didn't have weapons of mass destruction,'' Sawyer persisted.

"Saddam Hussein was a threat,'' Bush responded. "And the fact that he is gone means America is a safer country.''

In the months since, Bush has changed his standard speech to reflect that failure to discover the weapons.

"Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq,'' Bush said in July in Tennessee. "We removed a declared enemy of America who had the capability of producing weapons of mass murder and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them. In the world after September the 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take.''

There are a few instances where the president's words contradict developments or his previous statements.

On March 6, 2003, for example, Bush insisted during a prime-time news conference that he would offer a resolution before the United Nations calling for the use of force against Iraq even if other nations threatened to veto it.

"No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote,'' Bush said.

A few days later, after it became apparent that the measure would not only be vetoed but might fail to win a majority of the Security Council, the Bush administration dropped its demand for a vote.

The president also said last month on NBC's "Today Show'' that "I don't think you can win'' the war on terrorism, explaining instead that the nation could greatly minimize the likelihood of terrorist attacks. The comment came after months of asserting the United States was winning, and would ultimately triumph, in its war on terror. The statement appeared to be little more than an inelegant way of adding nuance to his explanation, and the president quickly retreated from the words the following day.

Some statements now look off-base after developments in Iraq, such as Bush's response in the first days of the war after learning that Iraqis may have captured some Americans.

"I do know that we expect them to be treated humanely, just like we'll treat any prisoners of theirs that we capture humanely,'' Bush said, many months before American soldiers committed the atrocities at the Abu Ghraib prison.

President Bush on Iraq

Sept. 12, 2002

Speech before the U.N. General Assembly

"Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take.''

Sept. 19, 2002

Response to a reporter's question

"If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force. ... This is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep the peace. That's what this is all about.''

Oct. 7, 2002

Speech before the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Cincinnati

"Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. ... Knowing these realities, American must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.''

March 6, 2003

News conference

"Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it would mean regime change.''

March 17, 2003

Address to nation (two days before invasion)

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. The danger is clear: Using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other.''

May 1, 2003

Aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. ... The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on."

Nov. 11, 2003

Veterans Day address

"Our mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is clear to our service members -- and clear to our enemies. Our men and women are fighting to secure the freedom of more than 50 million people who recently lived under two of the cruelest dictatorships on earth. Our men and women are fighting to help democracy and peace and justice rise in a troubled and violent region. Our men and women are fighting terrorist enemies thousands of miles away in the heart and center of their power, so that we do not face those enemies in the heart of America.''

Aug. 16, 2004

Speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Cincinnati

"Even though we did not find the stockpiles that we thought we would find, Saddam Hussein had the capability to make weapons of mass destruction, and he could have passed that capability on to our enemy, to the terrorists. It is not a risk after September the 11th that we could afford to take. Knowing what I know today, I would have taken the same action."
-----------------------


This administration thinks if it just ignores things, like Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, Osama Bin Laden, that they will just go away. They think that if they just make it nearly impossible for people to vote, then they just won't. They're in a fantasy world, but they're about to get a real harsh reality check on November 2nd.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
Kerry didn't object to giving the troops $87 million, he disagreed with the way it was going to be paid for. It happens all the time. The President should know, he's done it any number of times.

I'd also like to know just how much of that $87 million went straight to the soldies in terms of payment and equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to pay for things like personal body armor before doing other things?

I think it's despicable that this President can talk about supporting the troops while cutting their funeral and imminent danger pay and claiming he raised military pay when he absolutely did not (see quote).

Bullets and gas, tanks and trucks are free.

Isn't equipment and BA the same thing???

Waffles...tee hee.

George Bush lied......He misrepresented.....
----------------------------------------

You are supposed to toss in a slam against Bush!
You know, something about his past, drug use or military service....I'm see you are slipping....
-----------------------------------------

PS.

I read the first three lines of the articles......it's just too boring to read someone else's opinions....


Honey,

Do you think a tan would be appropriate for the debate???

[Lady's Human]

Soledad,


President Bush did indeed push for and get a larger military pay raise and got targeted pay raises through congress. Instead of everyone getting the same raise, the pay tables were altered so those with more responsibility got more money......It used to be when a soldier got promoted from PFC to Specialist it was the biggest raise they'd ever see. No change in duties or responsibilities, just more money. Now senior NCO's and Staff Sergeants are (almost ) getting paid in accordance to their responsibilities. The raises in the Bush administration have been about one percent higher than they had been in the previous decade. We have also seen far more money put into the training and ammunition funds. No longer do we have to worry about going over budget on mileage, which was a major concern in the '90s. (and yes, this began prior to 9/11).From 1992 to about 1999, the armor units were limited to 25 miles per month on a tracked vehicle because there were no maintenance spares available to fix the equipment if we went over that figure. . We can actually request and get ammunition for training, and the new COS of the Army is pushing a new training cycle that should make an impact across the board. I could go on for pages about changes in the military, but the point is that the military has vastly improved since the Bush administration was elected.

[RICHARD]

I shudder to think about sending mechanized units and their troops to a war with only 25 miles a month to train on.

In the Gulf War I the mechanized divisions traveled some 180 kilometers into Iraq...in some 80 hours...It may be more - I don't have the facts at hand....That's three months of training mileage!
:eek: in three plus days.

I think is a disservice to speak of supporting the troops and then voting down monies that would make their mission a whole lot easier..

The other thing that makes me ill is the point being made that WHERE THE money comes from is MORE IMPORTANT than the PEOPLE it's meant for........

----------------------

Years ago I met a very nice woman who volunteered her time in our office. She was a grandmotherly type, who was an absolutely charming lady.

One day I noticed her hands.
Press your hands flat on the table in front of you.
Look at your thumbs-see the way they curve out.
Now try to curve your index/pointer finger out the same way...

You probably can't do it.

I was pretty taken by her crooked fingers, They looked painful and the work of arthritis.....

I asked her if I could ask her a question about her fingers.

NO problem, ask away......"Do they hurt???
She smiled at me and said, 'No, they don't hurt'.
Her smile was from ear to ear, so I figured that I could ask her HOW they were bent.

Again a HUGE smile on her face.....During World War II she pulled wiring for bombers.......

"I pulled so much wiring my fingers bent that way..."

Huge smile to finish our conversation

No regret, no hesitation.

She was proud of her work, she was proud of her contribution and she was proud of her fingers. That was literally years ago...

I still remember Bea because of her charm and her fingers. When someone starts to complain about where the money should come from to support the troops, I think about this gal, who busted her rump to put wires thru wing spars and the fuselage of bombers that were needed.

Sometimes money isn't the cure all. But I don't see the American public going to an aircraft company to pull wires for bombers...

Since George Bush sent the troops our ill prepared for Iraq, then we only have Clinton to blame for 25 miles a month and no ammo.

As a matter of fact, It's a message to us, as taxpayers, to make sure that we get the troops we support, ANYTHING they want.

Some forty years after her fingers were bent all to hell this gal didn't have any regrets....you could see the spark in her eyes and the pride in her voice as she told me about her job.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

So you support the troops...and you support the fact that some nitz WON'T approve the 87 mil for them...Just because he doesn't know how we are going to pay for it..

MY wallet or OUR soldiers??????

I can get a wallet any day of the week.

[Soledad]

President: "You can not change positions in the war on terror if you expect to win"
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" (President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01)

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him." (President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02)

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."([President Bush, 9/25/02)

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." (President Bush, 9/17/03)

[Albea]

President Eisenhower's Son Endorses John Kerry

Republicans have been deserting George Bush all summer long, but in the New Hampshire Union Leader, John Eisenhower, son of President Eisenhower and a lifelong Republican, declares that he is switching to Independent and plans to vote for John Kerry in November.
Here's the complete endorsement and biographical information about John Eisenhower:

Why I will vote for John Kerry for President
By JOHN EISENHOWER
Guest Commentary

The Presidential election to be held this coming Nov. 2 will be one of extraordinary importance to the future of our nation. The outcome will determine whether this country will continue on the same path it has followed for the last 31⁄2 years or whether it will return to a set of core domestic and foreign policy values that have been at the heart of what has made this country great.

Now more than ever, we voters will have to make cool judgments, unencumbered by habits of the past. Experts tell us that we tend to vote as our parents did or as we “always have.” We remained loyal to party labels. We cannot afford that luxury in the election of 2004. There are times when we must break with the past, and I believe this is one of them.

As son of a Republican President, Dwight D. Eisenhower, it is automatically expected by many that I am a Republican. For 50 years, through the election of 2000, I was. With the current administration’s decision to invade Iraq unilaterally, however, I changed my voter registration to independent, and barring some utterly unforeseen development, I intend to vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry.

The fact is that today’s “Republican” Party is one with which I am totally unfamiliar. To me, the word “Republican” has always been synonymous with the word “responsibility,” which has meant limiting our governmental obligations to those we can afford in human and financial terms. Today’s whopping budget deficit of some $440 billion does not meet that criterion.

Responsibility used to be observed in foreign affairs. That has meant respect for others. America, though recognized as the leader of the community of nations, has always acted as a part of it, not as a maverick separate from that community and at times insulting towards it. Leadership involves setting a direction and building consensus, not viewing other countries as practically devoid of significance. Recent developments indicate that the current Republican Party leadership has confused confident leadership with hubris and arrogance.

In the Middle East crisis of 1991, President George H.W. Bush marshaled world opinion through the United Nations before employing military force to free Kuwait from Saddam Hussein. Through negotiation he arranged for the action to be financed by all the industrialized nations, not just the United States. When Kuwait had been freed, President George H. W. Bush stayed within the United Nations mandate, aware of the dangers of occupying an entire nation.

Today many people are rightly concerned about our precious individual freedoms, our privacy, the basis of our democracy. Of course we must fight terrorism, but have we irresponsibly gone overboard in doing so? I wonder. In 1960, President Eisenhower told the Republican convention, “If ever we put any other value above (our) liberty, and above principle, we shall lose both.” I would appreciate hearing such warnings from the Republican Party of today.

The Republican Party I used to know placed heavy emphasis on fiscal responsibility, which included balancing the budget whenever the state of the economy allowed it to do so. The Eisenhower administration accomplished that difficult task three times during its eight years in office. It did not attain that remarkable achievement by cutting taxes for the rich. Republicans disliked taxes, of course, but the party accepted them as a necessary means of keep the nation’s financial structure sound.

The Republicans used to be deeply concerned for the middle class and small business. Today’s Republican leadership, while not solely accountable for the loss of American jobs, encourages it with its tax code and heads us in the direction of a society of very rich and very poor.

Sen. Kerry, in whom I am willing to place my trust, has demonstrated that he is courageous, sober, competent, and concerned with fighting the dangers associated with the widening socio-economic gap in this country. I will vote for him enthusiastically.

I celebrate, along with other Americans, the diversity of opinion in this country. But let it be based on careful thought. I urge everyone, Republicans and Democrats alike, to avoid voting for a ticket merely because it carries the label of the party of one’s parents or of our own ingrained habits.

**********

John Eisenhower, son of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, served on the White House staff between October 1958 and the end of the Eisenhower administration. From 1961 to 1964 he assisted his father in writing “The White House Years,” his Presidential memoirs. He served as American ambassador to Belgium between 1969 and 1971. He is the author of nine books, largely on military subjects.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
President: "You can not change positions in the war on terror if you expect to win"
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" (President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01)




If you want to catch a rat you have to patiently and quietly wait for him to stick his head out of the wall. Having people run all over the place ain't gonna help, you just scare the rat deeper into hiding...

----------------------------------------------------

I got a letter from John Kerry to make a contribution.

I thought about how much money Tah raise ah has and wondered why he'd need my hard earned bucks...

I stuffed the return envelope with some crisp new bills-the best part is he paid for the postage.

I sent him 4,000 dollars.

Now I have to replace the Monopoly money from my nephew's
game before he finds out...

:cool:

[Logan]

Originally posted by RICHARD
If you want to catch a rat you have to patiently and quietly wait for him to stick his head out of the wall. Having people run all over the place ain't gonna help, you just scare the rat deeper into hiding...

----------------------------------------------------

I got a letter from John Kerry to make a contribution.

I thought about how much money Tah raise ah has and wondered why he'd need my hard earned bucks...

I stuffed the return envelope with some crisp new bills-the best part is he paid for the postage.

I sent him 4,000 dollars.

Now I have to replace the Monopoly money from my nephew's
game before he finds out...

:cool:

:p :p :p Hehehe!!!!

[christa]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I sent him 4,000 dollars.

Now I have to replace the Monopoly money from my nephew's
game before he finds out...

:cool:

LOLOLOL!!! Richard, are you serious!?!? That's too great! You're AWESOME!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by christa
LOLOLOL!!! Richard, are you serious!?!? That's too great! You're AWESOME!

You betcha.
I believe in supporting presidential candidiates.....

I would have send him more but I didn't want to use ALL the 500 dollar bills.

I used to have some GIANT fake money but I couldn't find it in time..

--------------------------------

I got tired of the mailings so I decided to support them in a different way.

Instead of protesting or bumperstickering my car I decided that it was a childish way to show how I felt ....


P.S.

It felt deliciously evil to lick the envelope closed and place it on the mail slot...

[DJFyrewolf36]

LOL I would pay good money to see the look from whoever opens that little tidbit of mail.

Better hope they don't send you a nastygram back, Richard...although if they do, I'd love to see it!

[mugsy]

Only you Richard!! You're funny. I hope the candidates have a sense of humor....nah....that would be asking too much.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by RICHARD

I got a letter from John Kerry to make a contribution.

I stuffed the return envelope with some crisp new bills -
the best part is he paid for the postage.

I sent him 4,000 dollars.

Now I have to replace the Monopoly money from my
nephew's game before he finds out...

:cool:

:D
:D
:D

DANG-IT!!

Wish *I'd* thought of that -
before I tossed the envelope! :(

:cool: Idea, Richard!!

/s/ Phred
..

[RICHARD]

I heard an interesting stat about the 2000 election.


Florida was FIFTH in the number of states that threw out votes in '00...

That smells of a fix.......

[RICHARD]

New bumpersticker...

A pic of John and Tah Raise Ah together,and the caption....

"Cash" and Kerry in '04



:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :o :eek:

[christa]

LOL

Maybe she's his secret weapon to cut the deficit!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Logan]

:D That is a good one, Richard!!! :)

[mugsy]

Originally posted by RICHARD
New bumpersticker...

A pic of John and Tah Raise Ah together,and the caption....

"Cash" and Kerry in '04



:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :o :eek:

You're so bad Richard!! lol I think you've missed your calling....you should write bumper stickers!! lol

[lizzielou742]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/viewsofamerica/story/0,15221,1327568,00.html?=rss

Poll reveals world anger at Bush

Eight out of 10 countries favour Kerry for president

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Friday October 15, 2004

George Bush has squandered a wealth of sympathy around the world towards America since September 11 with public opinion in 10 leading countries - including some of its closest allies - growing more hostile to the United States while he has been in office.

According to a survey, voters in eight out of the 10 countries, including Britain, want to see the Democrat challenger, John Kerry, defeat President Bush in next month's US presidential election.

The poll, conducted by 10 of the world's leading newspapers, including France's Le Monde, Japan's Asahi Shimbun, Canada's La Presse, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Guardian, also shows that on balance world opinion does not believe that the war in Iraq has made a positive contribution to the fight against terror.

The results show that in Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Japan, Spain and South Korea a majority of voters share a rejection of the Iraq invasion, contempt for the Bush administration, a growing hostility to the US and a not-too-strong endorsement of Mr Kerry. But they all make a clear distinction between this kind of anti-Americanism and expressing a dislike of American people. On average 68% of those polled say they have a favourable opinion of Americans.

The 10-country poll suggests that rarely has an American administration faced such isolation and lack of public support amongst its closest allies.

The only exceptions to this trend are the Israelis - who back Bush 2-1 over Kerry and see the US as their security umbrella - and the Russians who, despite their traditional anti-Americanism, recorded unexpectedly favourable attitudes towards the US in the survey conducted in the immediate aftermath of the Beslan tragedy.

The UK results of the poll conducted by ICM research for the Guardian reveal a growing disillusionment with the US amongst the British public, fuelled by a strong personal antipathy towards Mr Bush.

The ICM survey shows that if the British had a vote in the US presidential elections on November 2 they would vote 50% for Kerry and only 22% for Bush.

Sixty per cent of British voters say they don't like Bush, rising to a startling 77% among those under 25.

The rejection of Mr Bush is strongest in France where 72% say they would back Mr Kerry but it is also very strong in traditionally very pro-American South Korea, where fears of a pre-emptive US strike against North Korea have translated into 68% support for Mr Kerry.

In Britain the growth in anti-Americanism is not so marked as in France, Japan, Canada, South Korea or Spain where more than 60% say their view of the United States has deteriorated since September 11. But a sizeable and emerging minority - 45% - of British voters say their image of the US has got worse in the past three years and only 15% say it has improved.

There is a widespread agreement that America will remain the world's largest economic power.

This is underlined by the 73% of British voters who say that the US now wields an excessive influence on international affairs, a situation that 67% see as continuing for the foreseeable future.

A majority in Britain also believe that US democracy is no longer a model for others.

But perhaps a more startling finding from the Guardian/ICM poll is that a majority of British voters - 51% - say that they believe that American culture is threatening our own culture.

This is a fear shared by the Canadians, Mexicans and South Koreans, but it is more usually associated with the French than the British. Perhaps the endless television reruns of Friends and the Simpsons are beginning to take their toll.

· ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,008 adults aged 18 and over by telephone between September 22-23 2004. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.

---

I am being serious when I say as an American, reading stuff like this embarrasses me. :(

[Pam]

Originally posted by RICHARD
New bumpersticker...

A pic of John and Tah Raise Ah together,and the caption....

"Cash" and Kerry in '04



:confused: :rolleyes: ;) :o :eek:

LOL! I just heard on GMA that Bush uses mustard on his hamburgers. I think they were trying to imply that he stays away from ketchup and pickles! LOL!

[tatsxxx11]

At least she puts her money where her mouth is. (Insert Richard's reply here....);)
Teresa Heinz Kerry Philanthropist (http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/univ03/sep03/heinz.html)

And in case you choose not to read the article, believing perhaps that this recognition was awarded by a partisan, "left wing" group, Geroge Bush, the current president's father, was also awared the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism:)

Disagaree with her politics, her outspokenness; dislike her "look," her hair, mock her accent...but is it necessary to relegate a woman of such accomplishment and compassion to terms such as "ketchup lady," and "pickle lady?" Interesting that not one person made note of the term that most people I know first associate with her...PHILANTHROPIST. Among the awards presented her for her philanthropy is the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism, presented to her last year at Johns Hopkins.

When I think of Teresa Heinz Kerry, I see a highly educated woman, a devoted wife, a caring and loving mother who raised 3 fine, accomplished sons and helped to raise the Kerry daughters, again, 2 well spoken, accomplished, lovely young women.

Teresa Heinz Kerry was married to John Heniz, a REPUBLICAN senator from PA and heir to the Heinz fortune. When her husband of 25 years was tragically killed in a plane crash in 1991, just days after their anniversary, she was strongly urged by many on both sides of the aisle to run to fill his seat in the Senate, but declined, interested more in devoting her time to raising their sons and supporting the philanthropic causes her husband championed and so deeply cared about.

Some people may feel threatened by strong, outspoken women but I am not one of them! One of the most outspoken politicial wives in my memory, and most admired, is Barbara Bush. She speaks her mind on all issues with GREAT passion, (and sometimes spicy language) commenting on everything from politics, to family. She supports and defends her husband, her sons, her family and her views, loudly and clearly and without apology and I think that's great! Even G.W. Bush proudly admits that he gets the fiery/defensive qualities of his personality/speaking style, from his Mom!

Can't we elevate the political dialogue to a level above that of petty name calling? "Breck Girl," "Lurch," "Pickle Lady," "Cash;" "Shrub," etc. It's no wonder we've gotten to the point where we are unable to even begin to entertain a legitimate argument or point from the other side. It's just gotten too petty and too personal for my liking. I'd rather spend my time educating myself on the issues, familiarizing myself with the positions of the candidates, rather than vilifying them with impunity. It's strains credulity that any one side can claim that their candiate has all the answers, is without fault, while seeing absolutley nothing valid, worthy or commendable in the other. My comments are directed to both Democrats and Republicans.

With only a couple of weeks left before the election, I'd love to see us all participate in some real debate, taking an issue, with each poster, stating points she/he likes and dislikes about each candidate's stand...with no personal invectives. Anyone up to the challenge?

[jonza]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Can't we elevate the political dialogue to a level above that of petty name calling? "Breck Girl," "Lurch," "Pickle Lady," "Cash;" "Shrub," etc. It's no wonder we've gotten to the point where we are unable to even begin to entertain a legitimate argument or point from the other side. It's just gotten too petty and too personal for my liking. I'd rather spend my time educating myself on the issues, familiarizing myself with the positions of the candidates, rather than vilifying them with impunity. It's strains credulity that any one side can claim that their candiate has all the answers, is without fault, while seeing absolutley nothing valid, worthy or commendable in the other. My comments are directed to both Democrats and Republicans.
With only a couple of weeks left before the election, I'd love to see us all participate in some real debate, taking an issue with each poster, stating points she/he likes and dislikes about each candidates' stand...with no personal invective.


How nice to see a decent, intelligent comment at last, one that I can agree with 100%.
Thank you tatsxxx11, a breath of fresh air in a polluted political world!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
With only a couple of weeks left before the election, I'd love to see us all participate in some real debate, taking an issue with each poster, stating points she/he likes and dislikes about each candidates' stand...with no personal invective. Anyone up to the challenge?

I guess I'll just have to delete this thread.;)

Debating politics is a sport unto itself.

I have fun with it. And while my comments are mostly slanted to one side, you can't take either one seriously.

I mean, you have a alleged coke user, draft dodger running against G.I. Joe, who can't shoot an M-79 grenade launcher without hurting himself....

The draft dodger is married to a woman who committed vehicular manslaughter and the other gal, Ms Tah Raise Ah married into money that she can give away because she didn't 'earn' it...

Unfortunately,

The guy who was cheating on his wife in the oval office can't stump for "Joe" because he had heart surgery. The second in command is under suspicion his old company is in bed with the current administration.

And that's just at the top!

Cah lee fuh nee ah has a foreign born governor, New Jersey's Gov is gay. and god knows what is happening in the other 48.

You couldn't get this type of a screen play from Hollywood.

I know who would play Don Rumsfeldt....Tim McCarver from Fox sports..........I was watching the game the other day and thought I saw Donny sitting in for the game.


----------------------

TRIVIA!

In the last 17 elections when the Washington Redskins LOSE the home game BEFORE the election the incumbent loses.










;)

[tatsxxx11]

Richard wrote:


The draft dodger is married to a woman who committed vehicular manslaughter and the other gal, Ms Tah Raise Ah married into money that she can give away because she didn't 'earn' it...

I had a feeling you would say just that, Richard. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy political satire and humor as much as anyone. And all should be held accountable for their actions. But political satire should not to be confused with political sarcasm and uninformed commentary. I enjoy the fun side of political debate, but too often, these personal attacks, not being tempered by a bit of calm reflection and erudition, tends to morph into something more diabolical, devisive and destructive. How about some real dialogue interspersed with the humor?

Well, I guess she could have jumped for joy that finally, her husband was out of the picture and proceeded to pawn the kids off on a nanny and spent her time jet setting around the world, spending her husband's money frivously and selfishly. As the award commentary states, she gives most importantly, of herself. The Heinz Foundation exists and would continue to exist and the money entrusted to that foundation awarded regardless of Teresa Kerry's role or lack thereof. She chose to honor her husband's legacy by actively participating. And as has been reported in numerous articles (most recently in the Wall Street Journal) after her involvement, a much higher degree of accountability, scrutiny and descretion were applied to the dispensing of those grants and prizes. The Wall Sreet Journal described her philanthropic philosophy as "dispensed with tough love."


"She is willing to invest herself in these things she cares passionately about. She doesn't just give money; she gives of herself," said Jared L. Cohon, president of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, who nominated Heinz for the award. "I applaud her personal and passionate efforts, but I marvel at the way she also brings out the best in others. She is a catalyst of humanitarian acts."

By the way, I just managed to drop a good helping of boiling chili on my hand and am off to get some treatmetnt. Whoa, does that hurt...took off the skin! Anyway I'm off, so don't misinterpret a timely response to the reply I know is coming for taking my marbles and "going home." As your governor would say, "I'll be back!":D

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11



By the way, I just managed to drop a good helping of boiling chili on my hand and am off to get some treatmetnt. Whoa, does that hurt...took off the skin! Anyway I'm off, so don't misinterpret a lack of response to the reply I know is coming for taking my marbles and "going home." As your governor would say, "I'll be back!":D


Go take care of yourself.

I understand. It's too easy to get vicious when talking politics.

Heinz Kerry makes me uneasy- Not for her openness.

Notice that there has been no more public quotes from her-John's handlers have had to keep her in check-she has the "power" to derail his bid.

I am puzzled at her 'non-bid' for her deceased husband's office.
Either, she decided not to, or someone she consulted told her, "no".

With her resources and a chance to make a difference as a US politician, she would have the world as her oyster.

A gal with lofty goals, as she has, would JUMP at the chance to go beyond her status as a mere 'politician's wife".

There is something that makes me very uneasy about her,
It has nothing to do with her openness......it's her agenda...

And I'll be danged if I can put my finger on it.




:confused:

[tatsxxx11]

Thanks for the get well wishes Richard:D It was an inexpensive albeit painful attempt at dermabrasion:eek: But CVS is stocked with all sorts of new thingys to treat burns and I think I bought them all!:rolleyes:

On to serious things...

Intuitions, hunches, gut feelings are good things to follow and "listen to!" And bolstered by facts, follow up, may indeed reveal the truth of those hunches!

I wish more women especially, would listen to that "little nagging voice" telling them that something is "not right" when say, a stranger offers to help them into the apartment with those heavy packages:(

As for Ms. Kerry!!!:D Well, actually, now that you mention it, I think I understand why she chose not to run. From what I've read about her, surmised from listening to her, I think she would definitely feel too limited in affecting the changes/causes she champions within the confines of the Congress...too much the "ol' boys club" and too much compromising! I don't think she sees herself at all as a "politician" in the classic sense of the word and I don't really she cares so much for title and power in that respect, as having her voice heard re: issues she has a passion for, literally or figuratively.

And yes, I'm sure she was "given notice" re: keeping a lid on it. That is the way of politics and the world, be it right or wrong. We all know what happens when a spouse's penchant for gab is left unchecked...Anyone remember Martha Mitchell???:D:D:D Loose lips sink ships AND political careers!

Poor Pat Nixon, as politically benign as she was, drank away the anguish of her enforced silence and I'm sure the list goes on! I actually believe whatever your thinking re: the appropriate role of the First Lady, it's probably just as difficult a role, albeit in a different way, than being the Pres.! I know I'd have a very hard time "keeping quiet." Just think of the platoform and bully pulpit I'd have for animal rights issues!:)

[RICHARD]

another great bumper sticker.



9 our of 10 terrorists say "anyone but Bush!"

Bush '04

[lizzielou742]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/187838-8290-010.html

Iran endorses Bush for president

Security council chief: 'We haven't seen anything good from Democrats.'

Associated Press
October 20, 2004

TEHRAN, Iran -- The head of Iran's security council said Tuesday that the re-election of President Bush was in Tehran's best interests, despite the administration's "axis of evil" label, accusations that Iran harbors al-Qaida terrorists and threats of sanctions for the country's nuclear ambitions.

Historically, Democrats have harmed Iran more than Republicans, said Hasan Rowhani, head of the Supreme National Security Council, Iran's top security decision-making body.

"We haven't seen anything good from Democrats," Rowhani told state-run television in remarks that, for the first time in decades, saw Iran openly supporting one U.S. presidential candidate over another.

Though Iran generally does not publicly wade into U.S. presidential politics, it has a history of preferring Republicans over Democrats, who tend to press human rights issues.

"We do not desire to see Democrats take over," Rowhani said when asked whether Iran was supporting Democratic Sen. John Kerry against Bush.

"It's not an endorsement we'll be accepting anytime soon," Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said in response. "Iran should stop its pursuit of nuclear weapons, and if they continue in the direction they are going, then we will have to look at what additional action may need to be taken, including looking to the U.N. Security Council."

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
"We do not desire to see Democrats take over," Rowhani said when asked whether Iran was supporting Democratic Sen. John Kerry against Bush.



That's funny!

I wonder what they think of Ralph Nader?

[lizbud]

This is a quote from an article written by someone who says
he has a proud tradition of voting for Independant candidates,
but not THIS time around.


" But -- perhaps more than any other president in American history -- George Bush deserves to be fired by the American people.

The list of reasons why is a near-exhaustive litany of his entire record, one of corrosive ideological rigidity combined with stunning incompetence: the Iraq invasion and the subsequent near-comic disaster of an incompetent occupation, loss of civil liberties and our ever-expanding prison systems, compulsive secrecy, the lousy economy and steady loss of decent jobs, repeated tax cuts for the wealthy, environmental degradation, corporate corruption, blurring the separation of church and state, the danger to reproductive freedoms, the list goes on, and on, and on.

If Bush is not re-elected for a second term, it will be a repudiation, the opposite of a voter mandate. It will be a referendum on Bush's record, and particularly his decision to wage a reckless war for dishonest reasons. It will serve as a powerful disincentive for Kerry or any other future president to mount any sort of similarly reckless imperial campaign.

I don't hate George Bush. I just want to fire him.

John Kerry deserves my vote because he can do something that Nader and Cobb cannot, something no other candidate can do: he can defeat George Bush. If he does, Iraq will still be with us, but we'll also have a clear message that presidents who try to wage aggressive wars in the future do so at the risk of their jobs.

That's a message I can get behind.

John Kerry for President. "


Geov Parrish is a Seattle-based columnist and reporter for Seattle Weekly.

[Kfamr]

The only reason I really don't like Bush is because I don't like how he puts his religion into everything. I've only watched a few, but everytime i've seen him give a speech he's said something about "God"

While running a nation that is so diverse and respresenting the people in i as their leader, he should not push his religion and beliefs into everything.


This however is my opinion, please do not bash me for it.


I really can't wait for this to be over.... no matter who "wins"

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by Kfamr

While running a nation that is so diverse and respresenting the people in i as their leader, he should not push his religion and beliefs into everything.


Or into ANYTHING (I believe). Faith-based initiatives, mistreatment of gays, etc....even promoting abstinence over birth control....it makes me sick. Where's the separation of Church and State, I say?

[lizzielou742]

See, this is what I am talking about.

Allentown, PA:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p6e427e2a3602e96f72719423f32febff/f68c9c9c.jpg

[lizzielou742]

Aaargh, why are all my pictures lately showing up as links?? I used the IMG tag! ???? :confused:

[Kfamr]

It's not just yours. for some reason the Dog House doesn't allow images.


It's probably a setting Karena nd Paul have turned off for the Dog House.

[K9soul]

Originally posted by Kfamr
It's probably a setting Karena nd Paul have turned off for the Dog House.

Yeah I'm guessing that they disabled it here not wanting controversial or graphic pics posted right in the threads, but rather as a link with a warning :)

[lizzielou742]

Aaaaaah OK that explains it. Thanks!

[RICHARD]

Senor Kerry is concerned about tons or material that disappeared from an Iraqi ammo dump....He blamed it on the military for not guarding the site.


I wonder if it's a guilt thing for not signing the 87 million dollar bill to get more soldiers and equipment over there.

[caseysmom]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Senor Kerry is concerned about tons or material that disappeared from an Iraqi ammo dump....He blamed it on the military for not guarding the site.


I wonder if it's a guilt thing for not signing the 87 million dollar bill to get more soldiers and equipment over there.

President Bush is so worried about the unborn child I wonder if that is because he feels guilty for all the young men and women he has sent to Iraq to die.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by caseysmom
President Bush is so worried about the unborn child I wonder if that is because he feels guilty for all the young men and women he has sent to Iraq to die.

I have yet to see an embryo in combat boots or carrying an M-16.....

I don't see the connection.
:confused:

[Lady's Human]

The troops in Iraq are not there to die. They have been trained and equipped (the body armor issue has been dead for a year) the best that we can. If three years ago someone told me we were going to invade Iraq, put stabilization forces in place and have them there for a long time and then told me that there would be less than 5000 KIA's I would have told them they were smoking hash. We lost more troops in the opening hours of operation overlord than that.

[RICHARD]

One thing that has me thinking about the 'Day After' this election is the way the political supporters are gonna react if the election doesn't go their way.

I fear all the lawsuits, accusations of voter fraud, machine malfunctions and the other BS that will suddenly surface on 12:01 a.m. on Wednesday November 3, 2004.

It used to be that the second place finishers were gracious in their comments and actions...

What happened between then and now??

:confused:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by RICHARD
One thing that has me thinking about the 'Day After' this election is the way the political supporters are gonna react if the election doesn't go their way.

I fear all the lawsuits, accusations of voter fraud, machine malfunctions and the other BS that will suddenly surface on 12:01 a.m. on Wednesday November 3, 2004.

It used to be that the second place finishers were gracious in their comments and actions...

What happened between then and now??

:confused: Both sides all ready have their lawyers ready and waiting with lawsuit papers in hand! Per both FOX and CNN news!!!!

Just think, this time next week, the media can be telling us who has won, even though half the country won't have voted yet! Then, with egg on their faces, retract THAT, change their minds, retract THAT, and try again to get it right. Why don't they just wait until ALL the votes are counted before they open their yaps this time? (fingers crossed) :eek: ;)

Then the election will be analyzed ad nauseam until the swearing in ceremony in January!

After that no matter what ever happens in the country any where, it will be the President's fault!!!! (no matter who wins):p

[RICHARD]

John Kerry was asked about the chance of the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series......

He gave the appropriate answer and said something about Manny Ortez having a good game....

Being the Senator of Massachusetts, He picked the right team....


Manny Ortez isn't on the team....I don't think he's a real person...


He meant to say David Ortiz....I am willing to give him a pass on his error!

Now that I know he's human, it makes me feel that Jim Kerry is the right choice for president!!!!

:confused:

[aly]

Well, I should hope he's spending more time on politics than baseball anyway :p I would be a bit concerned if our President knew all the baseball players by heart, hehe!

[Pam]

I'm not even going to stay up late to see who wins because we probably won't have a winner for several days.

[dukedogsmom]

I voted and am done with it. I won't waste my time watching the coverage. Like Pam says, it'll be days before we know, anyway. Hope there's no more voting fiascos to stir up more trouble.

[Kfamr]

You know.. besides all of this election stuff together... something i'm really sick of..


We were talking about the election in English class yesterday.
The teacher allowed us to speak our opinion on the election, if we wanted to. We all took a class vote -- a majority of the class voted for Kerry, a few for Bush, and one for Nader.

After that, we were able to say why we voted for so-and-so.
I was the ONLY person who came up with a reason/explanation. I was the only child in my classroom able to say why/why not.

I'm so sick of all of these kids in my school bashing Bush, or bashing Kerry, or bashing ANYONE without a reason. I think, if they can't say why or why not they choose/didn't choose a canidate, they shouldn't say anything at all. They're so quick to say "Oh, I hate Bush" or "Oh, I hate Kerry"

There's one girl in particular that i'm not necessarily fond of right now because her loud @$$ mouth keeps running and running about how she hates John Kerry but she's so far been incapable to say why..... "I dunno" is the typical answer. :rolleyes:

Sorry for the little rant.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by Kfamr
You know.. besides all of this election stuff together... something i'm really sick of..


We were talking about the election in English class yesterday.
The teacher allowed us to speak our opinion on the election, if we wanted to. We all took a class vote -- a majority of the class voted for Kerry, a few for Bush, and one for Nader.

After that, we were able to say why we voted for so-and-so.
I was the ONLY person who came up with a reason/explanation. I was the only child in my classroom able to say why/why not.

I'm so sick of all of these kids in my school bashing Bush, or bashing Kerry, or bashing ANYONE without a reason. I think, if they can't say why or why not they choose/didn't choose a canidate, they shouldn't say anything at all. They're so quick to say "Oh, I hate Bush" or "Oh, I hate Kerry"

There's one girl in particular that i'm not necessarily fond of right now because her loud @$$ mouth keeps running and running about how she hates John Kerry but she's so far been incapable to say why..... "I dunno" is the typical answer. :rolleyes:

Sorry for the little rant.

I agree totally. It's why I don't complain or gripe either way, because I'm still unsure myself who to vote for. I think people like what you're describing (and, I know a lot of them that aren't still "children"), shouldn't vote. Anyway, I don't think it's really a rant, I think it's a valid complaint.

[Lady's Human]

One lawsuit that will probably never happen.....A Class action suit against the State of Pennsylvania by the troops who have just been disenfranchised to to the Ex DNC chairman and Governor of PA, Ed Rendell. GOV. Rendell has refused to extend the deadline for absentee ballots, which, when combined with the actions of the PA SC, which removed Nader from the ballot, has taken the right to vote away from the people who are defending the rights of everyone in the country. Congradulations to the DNC.

[Lady's Human]

Two soldiers from PA have filed suit from Iraq, demanding an extension to the absentee ballot return time. However, one would think that they would have better things to be doing while in a combat zone than worrying about some political hack trying to keep them from voting.

[RICHARD]

I heard that one of the space station astronauts was going vote by a special means.....Nasa was going to send him a ballot, and he would send it back....encrypted of course!!

[Lady's Human]

One minor detail I forgot to add in about Gov. Rendell.......


He has sent all the prisons in PA memos reminding the prison staff to make sure the prisoners vote.

Prisoners can vote but not troops? Thank you again, Governor

[Logan]

I didn't think prisoners were allowed to vote! :confused:

[Lady's Human]

In some states, including PA, they are allowed to vote.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Logan
I didn't think prisoners were allowed to vote! :confused:

I accidentally clicked on this thread. I haven't taken time to read the entire thing, but Logan, from what I understand, it's only felons that can't vote. If you are convicted of a felony crime, you can't vote for the rest of your life. However, a lot of crimes are not felons - just petty crimes I guess - so those prisoners don't loose their voting rights.....from what I understand.

They are also talking about reversing the felony thing. If you've done your time and paid for your crime, you should be able to go back into society as full blown member with all the rights afforded to a regular citizen. Don't know if I agree with that, but just wanted to throw that out there for you all to chew on too. ;)

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled debate. :)

[tatsxxx11]

One lawsuit that will probably never happen.....A Class action suit against the State of Pennsylvania by the troops who have just been disenfranchised to to the Ex DNC chairman and Governor of PA, Ed Rendell. GOV. Rendell has refused to extend the deadline for absentee ballots, which, when combined with the actions of the PA SC, which removed Nader from the ballot, has taken the right to vote away from the people who are defending the rights of everyone in the country. Congradulations to the DNC.

The suit was heard and as is explained, that is a decision (extending the absentee ballot deadline) that only a fereral court judge can make, and did. If you don't care to read the entire letter, (long) here's a pertinent excerpt from a letter written by Gov. Rendell to Senator Santorum in respone to the charges.

"As Judge Kane noted in her Memorandum and Order, the proposal by the federal government would have "invited unpredictability to an otherwise orderly and
time tested elections process" and "may do more to disenfranchise overseas
voters than the harm they seek to cure."
Despite these facts and the existence of a federal court decision on the matter, members of the media and others continue to call on me to extend the deadline for receipt of military and overseas ballots. As an attorney, you
know that I do not have the power unilaterally to extend deadlines set by
statute - and it is disingenuous for anyone who believes in the rule of law
even to suggest such action".



HARRISBURG, Pa., Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Governor Edward G. Rendell
released a letter he wrote to U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum regarding misinformation
about military and overseas absentee ballots.
The Governor's letter follows.

October 25, 2004

The Honorable Rick Santorum
United States Senate
511 Dirksen Senate Building
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator Santorum:
As Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I have a constitutional
obligation to protect the right of every eligible Pennsylvania citizen to vote
and to ensure that these votes are properly counted. This is the same duty
that I discharged as Mayor and District Attorney of the City of Philadelphia.
I believe that the right to vote is fundamental, and I will never allow that
right to be compromised for any reason.
So let me be absolutely clear concerning the votes of our servicemen and
women and other overseas Pennsylvania citizens: We have received written
certifications from 65 of Pennsylvania's 67 counties that they have provided
absentee ballots to military and overseas voters in accordance with applicable
Federal law. The two remaining counties have cured problems with the issuance
of absentee ballots through an expedited mailing and ballot return process as
explained below. These certifications support the conclusion that all
Pennsylvania military and overseas ballots have been sent out in accordance
with Federal law. All of these ballots will be counted in accordance with law
for the November 2nd General Election.
As you know, several weeks ago, Attorney General John Ashcroft through the
United States Department of Justice (DOJ) requested a federal court order
requiring Pennsylvania counties (a) to deliver to military and overseas voters
a second absentee ballot that did not include the names of Ralph Nader and
Peter Camejo and (b) to grant a two-week extension for the counting of
military and overseas ballots cast in the November 2nd General Election. The
Pennsylvania Republican and Democratic parties and the presidential campaigns
were given notice of this court proceeding.
The commonwealth opposed Attorney General Ashcroft's request because all
military and overseas ballots had been issued in time to be received and
counted in accordance with law, and because a second absentee ballot would
create significant voter confusion. After two days of hearings and arguments
last week, United States District Court Judge Yvette Kane - who served as
Secretary of the Commonwealth under Governor Tom Ridge and is intimately
familiar with Pennsylvania election law and procedures - agreed with the
commonwealth's position and denied the DOJ request.
Some have noted that the commonwealth agreed to an extension of time for
the return of military and overseas ballots for the April 2004 primary
election. In fact, the commonwealth agreed to an extension for the primary
election because many county boards of elections in March failed in their
statutory duty to deliver and mail special write-in absentee ballots under the
applicable statutory deadlines. Moreover, as a consequence of the late
mailings, commonwealth officials were convinced that at least some overseas
voters were unlikely to receive their absentee ballots in sufficient time to
return them by the statutory deadline. Because many absentee ballots were
delivered late in advance of the primary and to protect the rights of voters
overseas, the commonwealth agreed to an extension of the filing deadline,
which was memorialized by a federal court order.
Unlike the primary election, for the November 2nd General Election the
county boards of elections (with two exceptions discussed below) have
certified in writing that they delivered or mailed absentee ballots to
military and overseas voters either by September 20th - the deadline under
Pennsylvania law - or a day or two later to accommodate changes made to the
absentee ballot required by state court actions on whether Nader and Camejo
should appear on the General Election ballot.
We are aware of two relatively small counties that failed to deliver and
mail ballots as required by law. When the Department of State learned of
these counties' omissions in early October, it directed these counties to send
out special write-in absentee ballots immediately by express mail and to
provide military and overseas voters an expedited method of returning absentee
ballots free of charge. Judge Kane and the Department of Justice approved of
this remedy for these two counties.
Beyond these two counties, neither the DOJ nor any other voter or
interested person has claimed in legal submissions or at the hearing last week
that other county boards of elections failed to send absentee ballots to
military or overseas electors as required by Pennsylvania law in time for
these voters to receive and vote absentee ballots by the statutory deadline.


As Judge Kane noted in her Memorandum and Order, the proposal by the federal government would have "invited unpredictability to an otherwise orderly and
time tested elections process" and "may do more to disenfranchise overseas
voters than the harm they seek to cure."
Despite these facts and the existence of a federal court decision on the matter, members of the media and others continue to call on me to extend the deadline for receipt of military and overseas ballots. As an attorney, you
know that I do not have the power unilaterally to extend deadlines set by
statute - and it is disingenuous for anyone who believes in the rule of law
even to suggest such action.


Moreover, even if I had the power to extend the
deadline, I am convinced, based on my review of the facts and the
well-reasoned and thorough opinion of Judge Kane, that there is no reason to
do so. However, if any credible evidence is presented in a timely manner that
any county has not in fact complied with the law, the commonwealth is prepared
to seek an appropriate judicial remedy.
As we enter the last week of this election cycle, I am confident that
despite our philosophical differences, we will be united in continuing to
protect the voting rights of our citizens.

Sincerely,

Edward G. Rendell
Governor

CONTACT: Kate Philips of the Pennsylvania Office of the Governor,
+1-717-783-1116

[Lady's Human]

The problem comes in when the overseas ballots are ruled invalid because they had Nader on the ballot.

[tatsxxx11]

Agreed!:) But it is the courts that have to recitfy the problem; the legislature, governonr, cannot intervene unilaterally.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Agreed!:) But it is the courts that have to recitfy the problem


She said 'rectify'.........huh, huh huh!!!;)

[Lady's Human]

The governor's office could, however, take some action in the courts to get resolution, instead of stonewalling. After all, it was the DNC in PA that created this mess when they filed lawsuits at the last minute to keep Nader off of the ballot. A remedy could have been sought as part of that action, but wasn't, as it was not in the interests of the parties that filed suit.

[lizbud]

I don't think it's a Judge's or a Governor's job to seek remedies to wrongs.That's the job of the lawyers on each side of an arguement brought before the court.

[Lady's Human]

The purpose of the lawsuit was to theoretically right the wrongs of oh my god having a third party candidate on the ballot. In causing the problem of having multiple versions of the ballot floating around, they could have asked the judge in the case to rule that the absentee ballots that had Nader on them were legitamate. They did not, creating the current problem.

Old military rule....If you're' going to complain about something, you had best have a valid solution.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
I don't think it's a Judge's or a Governor's job to seek remedies to wrongs.That's the job of the lawyers on each side of an arguement brought before the court.

Judges and governors have their fiefdoms to run, they don't have time for that...


Thanks for coming back before the election.....


I needed some one to help me decide who to vote for.

----------------------------------

I was watching the Bill 'its braver to crash a plane into the WTC'
Maher tonight.....He had on Wesley Clark, Richard Belzer and Kevin Costner.

The person that I thought would make an intelligent comment didn't, the person who I thought would be funny wasn't and the person who I thought was an airhead made the most brilliant observation.

-------------------------------------

Americans are stupid, they need to be told again and again and again.

You know how to get the hair on the spine of a policitian stand up???

GO VOTE....

Blah, blah blah, blah George Bush blah blah blah.

In order

Richard Belzer. Not funny.

Kevin Costner, Brilliant.

Wes Clark, " "

Wes, dude, have those eyes checked out, looks like a runaway thyroid.

When the 7 lost minutes of the Bush/school children visit came up
(Bush sitting in the Sarasota classroom on 9/11) AGAIN ......
the conversation drifted as to why people bring this up again and again......,Belzer made his observation. Lovely, a comedian who I thought was smart, ain't!

I personally think that since George Bush didn't duck into a local phone booth, put on his super hero outfit and keep the PA flight from hitting the ground, He's no Superman....

He was the president.

I find it rather funny that people still bring that up.....

Let it go..........it's history, learn from it...

Fool me once shame on you.....
Next time you have a plan to work from.


The one think that I have enjoyed about this election is listening to people bash our politicians.

One of the funniest parts of this whole discourse are the snipes I have read on the threads.

I'd make a great politician, I've done most the things that the candidates have.

Except marry for money.

Women seem to find me out before I can get my claws into them.
But that's what I get for dating smart women.:confused:

So, sometime in the near future put your presidential hat on and gaze into the mirror.....Say, "I could be president!"

For a second think about all the nasty stuff in your past,
Then wink at the person in the mirror put the hat back on the shelf and let's work on the nastiness and BS for 2008

There's a lot of living to do between now and then....I hate to see us lose our edge.
:rolleyes:

[Lady's Human]

Gov Rendell doesn't have the power to extend the absentee ballot deadline?

From MSNBC:

Yesterday, in hotly contested Pennsylvania, Gov. Edward G. Rendell (D) agreed to a seven-day extension to settle a federal lawsuit in that state after initially resisting the idea. As a result, military ballots there may be received through Nov. 10. Republican officials are considering a new lawsuit to push back that extension further.

Oops, guess he did.

[mugsy]

In regards to prisoners: As far as I understand, you may vote, felon or otherwise, as long as you are not physically in prison. That's what I understand....they may have changed it, but, I know people with felonies that have done their time and are very active on the political front.

As far as PA and the absentee voting...that's just not right. EVERYONE 18 years or older should have the right to vote...especially those men and women in the military who are oversees fighting for our country....God I hate trick plays....by either side.

I am truly at a loss in this election....I can't abide by either candidate. Neither one of the them would know the truth or speak the truth if they tried. And of course, in IN, the 2nd most conservative state in the Union behind KS, Nadar was not allowed to be on the ballot....I love how the government can keep candidates from running by keeping them off the ballot.

[Lady's Human]

In PA, Prisoners can vote in elections. The rules vary state to state. As far as Nader and the other third party candidates getting on the ballot, there should be nothing keeping them off of the ballot as long as they are eligible to run under federal law. Third parties not being listed on ballots is one of the things that keeps the two party system as it is. Frankly, both major parties are letting the lunatic fringe take control, and it is truly pathetic.

Bill n' Opus for president!

[ramanth]

Originally posted by RICHARD
TRIVIA!

In the last 17 elections when the Washington Redskins LOSE the home game BEFORE the election the incumbent loses.

;)

GREEN BAY 28, WASHINGTON 14 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/2004/10/31/1199_recap.html)

[mugsy]

They also said that it might not be the same this year because the BoSox broke their World Series curse! ;) :eek:

All I know is that I am SO ready for this to be over. What I find scary is that my 8th graders are better versed on this election than a lot of adults who are actually GOING to vote. We just got done with a 2 week unit on U.S. government and how it works and the differences in the parties and stands that each candidate is taking yada yada yada. The kids were really frustrated because they couldn't figure out which way I leaned....I'm so bad! lol

[ramanth]

LOL! You're bad Molly. :D

Can't wait for tomorrow. :) If you can, go vote! :D

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Here's a new one for you to chew on:
SHOULD DEAD PEOPLE GET TO VOTE:

I saw on Yahoo news yesterday about an elderly lady who legally voted early but has since passed on. Now there is a debate as to whether her vote or any vote cast by someone who dies before the election, will count!

Personally, I think it should. She was alive when she voted, it was a legal vote and no fraud was intended.

Any opinions on this? ;)

[ramanth]

Of course her vote should count!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Well.... John Ashcroft....the current attorney general...ran for Senator of Missouri against a dead guy (AND LOST!!!) So I say...if a dead guy can run and win...her vote should count!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces


Personally, I think it should. She was alive when she voted, it was a legal vote and no fraud was intended.

Any opinions on this? ;)

There are plenty of Republicans and Democrats who show no brain wave patterns...........

What's the difference?;)

[RICHARD]

By the way.....

Where's Osama??

At first he denied he "did 9/11"

Then he praised the people who did it..

Now he shows up in a video and claims it as his doing.

Flip flopper!!!!

He's been watching too much American politics.

[Logan]

I have an ethical problem with early voting for the very reason that is stated in an earlier post! What is the voter dies? I do NOT think these votes should count and it sounds to me as if many will in many states who allowed early voting!

Isn't there an Election Day for a reason??? :confused:

[aly]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Here's a new one for you to chew on:
SHOULD DEAD PEOPLE GET TO VOTE:

I saw on Yahoo news yesterday about an elderly lady who legally voted early but has since passed on. Now there is a debate as to whether her vote or any vote cast by someone who dies before the election, will count!

Personally, I think it should. She was alive when she voted, it was a legal vote and no fraud was intended.

Any opinions on this? ;)

I think it should count. It would be different if she voted months early or something, but this is just days. Ugh, how sad :(

[mugsy]

Originally posted by Logan
I have an ethical problem with early voting for the very reason that is stated in an earlier post! What is the voter dies? I do NOT think these votes should count and it sounds to me as if many will in many states who allowed early voting!

Isn't there an Election Day for a reason??? :confused:

Thank you Logan....that is exactly how I feel.

As far as the woman's vote counting...she voted before she died...it should count....just my opinion.

[Logan]

I guess you misunderstood me, Molly, because I don't think her vote should count. Shoot, the whole thing is so confusing isn't it? I want people, like our soldiers who are in other countries, and people, like me, who have jobs that take them away from their local polling places on election day, to have their votes count, but I have trouble understanding why states have chosen to open early for those who just want to do it for convenience as many have done, and to count the vote of someone who wasn't even alive on Election Day just seems wrong to me.

[RICHARD]

Cops: Democrat drove car at Katherine Harris

SARASOTA, Fla. -- A man who told police he was ''exercising my political expression'' was arrested Wednesday on charges he nearly ran down U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris and a group of her supporters with his car.

Witnesses told police a silver Cadillac sped through an intersection and hurtled onto a sidewalk, heading straight toward Harris before swerving at the last minute and driving off.

The Republican congresswoman told police she froze with fear as the vehicle sped toward her Tuesday evening, authorities said.

Witnesses gave the car's license plate number to police, who tracked it to Barry M. Seltzer, 46, a registered Democrat.

''I intimidated them with my car,'' he was quoted as telling police. ''I was exercising my political expression.''

He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The charge carries up to 30 years in prison.

As Florida secretary of state during the 2000 presidential election, Harris was vilified by Democrats for overseeing the recount that gave the presidency to George W. Bush by 537 votes. AP

-----------------------------
LOLOL


The Democrats I know exercise their political freedom with their cars too!

They purchase the vanity/enviromental license plates with the whales swimming in the background, have a support our troops ribbon, next to the Kerry/Edwards '04 and No Blood for Oil stickers on their SUVs bumper.......

Did I mention that they pay 60 dollars to fill their gas tanks??:confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Logan...I've been thinking about this all day. I have voted already as I did an absentee ballot. Convenience? I suppose so. But what if a member of the armed forces votes absentee and then is killed in action? Should that person's vote count? Do we want to hold up an election to determine cause of death? I agree with you in questioning the early voting. I seem to have lost the reasoning on that one but I think the question still remains whether death between the time of casting your ballot and...??? when it is counted? When the polls open officially?? Election day??

So I don't think it is an easy question nor does it have a simple answer.

[RICHARD]

It took me 45 seconds to get from my car to the polling place

I waited a grand total of 30 seconds to vote. Sign in and get a ballot.

It took me 3 minutes to vote and another 45 to get back to the car.

5 minutes.

Why are people waiting 6 hours in some places?

:confused:

[Maresche]

I took me 2 hours to vote this morning. In at 7am, finished up at 9am. I guess just everyone and their brother in my precinct decided to vote this morning.

[ramanth]

Originally posted by Maresche
I took me 2 hours to vote this morning. In at 7am, finished up at 9am. I guess just everyone and their brother in my precinct decided to vote this morning.
It was about the same for me too. Polls opened at 7 but I didn't get there until 7:30. Got to a voting booth about 9 a.m. :)

[lizzielou742]

I got in line to vote at 6:00 am this morning. I waited in line for 30 minutes to get my ballot, took 5 minutes to cast my ballot and was home by 6:45 am.

[aly]

The total trip for me to vote (drive there, vote, drive home) probably took about 15-20 minutes. Feel great about my vote and am excited to watch and wait for results.

[joycenalex]

got to my polling place at 7, i was #173, i waited 1 hour and 20 minutes to vote, i left at 8:25. considering that the polls here in columbus ohio open at 6:30, that's an amazing number of people . idle thought #1, since it was a school site, why doesn't the pta run a bake-coffee sale, i'd have bought both while i stood in line chatting with neighbors. second idle thought, there were more people waiting then i'd seen since the 1992 election, wonder how the numbers will be for this HOT HOT HOT campaign. i'm joyce and i approved this message.

[RICHARD]

I thought that GWB was going to produce Osama right before the election....

WHAT HAPPENED???:eek: :eek:

And I was trying to figure out what the D and R next to the candidates names meant...

R - Right!

D- Don't do it!


:confused:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I did my civic duty and voted too!
By the way, who were those other people on the ballot? I've heard of Ralph Nader but there was and Independent pair I've never heard of. Why bother to put their names on if no one knows who they are? Maybe they hope they will get votes from people who don't want any of the others? :confused:

[Logan]

Scott and I arrived at our polling place (a church about 5 minutes from here) at 8:20 am. We finally walked up to the voting machine at 9 am. Overall, it wasn't too bad. They had 8 machines set up and there were a lot of people there to vote. They say that the turnout has been excellent today, even though we had rain this morning. Ever wonder why someone would choose not to vote just because it is raining?? :rolleyes:

[caseysmom]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I thought that GWB was going to produce Osama right before the election....

WHAT HAPPENED???:eek: :eek:

And I was trying to figure out what the D and R next to the candidates names meant...

R - Right!

D- Don't do it!


:confused:

No actually it stands for:

R - radical
D - democracy

[Samantha Puppy]

Hmmm... funny. I'm an "R" and I'm pretty much polar opposite of "radical." :rolleyes: ;) :D :p

[RICHARD]

Where is the campus of the Electoral College at?:confused:

[christa]

Me and my hubby voted at 11:20 this morning.

Only stood in line for about 15 minutes.

Stood in line for about 10 . . .

Showed ID & signed in . . .

Stood in line for another 5 or so . . .

Cast my vote!

Then we went & watched TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE!!!

Great movie!

[Logan]

At some point (I think it was in this thread), I said that the governor of SC usually overrides the law that requires liquor stores to close on Election Day. I was wrong. Liquor Stores are closed today! (I only looked when I was riding by ;) )

[Lady's Human]

The electoral college campus SHOULD be in the middle of the marshes surrounding D.C., either that or in a wastewater treatment plant. Frankly, both candidates should be put on Academic probation.

I genuinely wish there was a third block on the ballot for "none of the above". If none of the above wins, the whole slate of candidates should get thrown out and give them 30 days to re run the election, with no candidate on the current ballot eligible.

Bill 'n Opus for President!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Lady's Human


I genuinely wish there was a third block on the ballot for "none of the above". If none of the above wins, the whole slate of candidates should get thrown out and give them 30 days to re run the election, with no candidate on the current ballot eligible.

Bill 'n Opus for President!


How's about feeding them beer and beans, locking them in a room and the last person in gets to be the prez???

Kinda like Fear Factor???!!!???



:eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

[aly]

Originally posted by Lady's Human

I genuinely wish there was a third block on the ballot for "none of the above". If none of the above wins, the whole slate of candidates should get thrown out and give them 30 days to re run the election, with no candidate on the current ballot eligible.


That would be great! Or at least I wish we could have like 15 candidates, but I guess that could get messy.

[Lady's Human]

With 15 candidates you'd have to use a runoff format, and the electoral college (Which works fine in its intended manner) would get messy.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by ramanth
GREEN BAY 28, WASHINGTON 14 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/2004/10/31/1199_recap.html)


Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!


:confused: