“Indian” mascots – appropriate or not?

[Kater]

The Squabbling Illini: Rallying Cries Lead to Rift

December 16, 2003
By MIKE WISE

URBANA, Ill. - The history books say the last Indian tribe
in Illinois was forcibly relocated to Kansas and then
Oklahoma early in the 19th century.

But there is one Indian left, according to members of the
Honor the Chief Society: Chief Illiniwek.

Of course, the chief is not a typical Indian, and he is not
even a real one. He is a student dressed in Hollywood-style
regalia, created 77 years ago by an assistant band director
at the University of Illinois. He dances at halftime of
football and basketball games.

A debate over whether mascots with Indian themes are
offensive or harmless has played out on college campuses
and at professional stadiums for more than two decades. But
there is something singular here, a fierce loyalty to a
student in war paint that makes the hair stand on grown
men's forearms. The passions aroused by the chief also make
the great-great-granddaughter of Sitting Bull, a junior at
Illinois, fear for her safety.

The catalyst for the debate was a proposal last month by
Dr. Frances Carroll, a new member of the university's board
of trustees, to have Chief Illiniwek "honorably retired."
She set aside her proposal after her support on the board
eroded unexpectedly, but she intends to raise it again in
March.

The proposal has divided the board and the university along
political and, at times, racial lines. A symbol of pride to
many students and alumni, Chief Illiniwek can at the same
time be a hurtful reminder to American Indians of their
mistreatment, of a misappropriation of their culture.

The chief's presence at football and basketball games flies
in the face of a national trend. In 1970, more than 3,000
American athletic programs referred to American Indians in
nicknames, logos or mascots, according to the Morning Star
Institute, a Native American organization. Today, there are
fewer than 1,100. At a time when American Indians are
reclaiming their heritage, the use of Indian mascots and
nicknames has ceased at all but a handful of major
universities.

At Illinois, though, the forces of change have met strong
resistance. Roger Huddleston, a local home builder and the
president of the Honor the Chief Society, calls Carroll's
proposal the "November ambush at the O.K. Corral."

"Chief Illiniwek is part of my geographic heritage," he
said. "For anyone to dismiss that because I'm Caucasian,
that's racist."

Whose Symbol Is It? John Gadaut, a lawyer in Champaign,
said he had spent more than $5,000 on keep-the-chief
billboards and buttons.

"I'm a Native American," said Gadaut, who is white. "I was
born and bred in Illinois. The chief means something to me,
too. People keep saying we have a mascot. No, we have a
symbol."

But those who think it is time to do away with the chief
note that the symbol for the past three years, and for
almost all of the past eight decades, has been portrayed by
a white college student.

More than 800 faculty members have signed petitions,
contending that the mascot interferes with fulfilling an
academic mission, diversity. Nancy Cantor, the chancellor
of the university's Champaign-Urbana campus, supports doing
away with the mascot.

Carroll said: "It's time for it to be put to bed. It's
tough, but we have to do it."

Their success is still very much in doubt, with
well-financed boosters and alumni determined to keep the
chief.

"It's got all the subtexts," Lawrence C. Eppley, the
chairman of the board of trustees, said. On one side, he
said, are "the people who see themselves as the do-goodie
white person."

"On the other, you got the old, bad white people from the
Midwest who can't change with the times," he said. "This is
about the chief, of course, but it's partly about the tail
end of the p.c. backlash of the 90's. When you start
throwing the word racist around, the other side becomes
firmly entrenched."

Genevieve Tenoso, an anthropology major who is a
seventh-generation descendant of Sitting Bull, the
legendary Hunkpapa leader, experienced a dose of the
roiling emotions when she ran into a group of students
demonstrating on behalf of the chief under the banner "The
Illini Nation."

"I think I said, `Look, now they've got their own tribe,' "
she said. "And a guy told me if I didn't shut up he was
going to pop me in the lip."

"Who knew," she said, "that this would be the issue on
campus to get people to resort to a threat of violence?"

The Battle Begins

The movement to abolish American Indian
nicknames began in the 1960's in Indian communities and on
several college campuses. Oklahoma's "Little Red" was the
first nickname to be retired, in 1970. Stanford and
Dartmouth soon followed, dropping Indians from their team
names.

The movement to do away with the nicknames and mascots
appeared to have won a key battle in 1999, when a panel in
the United States Patent and Trademark Office ruled that
Redskins was a disparaging moniker and violated federal
law. Six trademarks involving the Washington Redskins were
revoked.

Last month, federal District Court Judge Colleen
Kollar-Kotelly overturned that ruling. Suzan Harjo, one of
six plaintiffs in the case, said they had appealed.

At Illinois, Charlene Teters, a member of the Spokane
Nation, took her children to a football game in the late
1980's and decided to do something about Chief Illiniwek.

Soon after, Teters, a graduate student at the time, started
holding up a handmade placard outside the stadium that read
"American Indians are people, not mascots." News accounts
of her protest spurred the movement.

"When you see a community erode your child's self-esteem,
you act," said Teters, now an artist and professor at the
Institute of American Indian Art in Santa Fe, N.M. When she
arrived at Illinois, a campus sorority was still holding a
Miss Illini Squaw contest.

"I felt then we needed to kill the fake Indian," Teters
said. "They say, `We're doing it to honor Native Americans
and the history of the state.' But it just seems like
misplaced atonement, especially when they want to dictate
the boundaries of that atonement."

Ever since, the chief's three-minute halftime performance
has divided the university, sometimes along political
lines.

Carroll, the trustee seeking to retire the mascot, is an
African-American former schoolteacher with Democratic
leanings who grew up and still lives on the South Side of
Chicago. Carroll insisted that her motivation had nothing
to do with being an African-American woman and everything
to do with "being a human being."

Marge Sodemann, one of two voting trustees on the
university's 10-member board who adamantly defend the
chief, is a staunch Republican from the prairie. The
license plate on her sedan reads "GOP Lady."

"The chief stands for the values, trust and honor of
everything that went on in the past," Sodemann said. "It's
not a racist mascot. Everything he's done is honorable. The
people here really dote on him."

More than 200 students, including dozens of members of the
marching band, held an all-night vigil in support of the
mascot before the board meeting Nov. 13. The day of the
meeting, other students demonstrated in favor of retiring
the chief. And during the public board meeting, some white
students sang Indian songs and performed tomahawk chops.

Proposal Must Wait

Carroll needs 6 of the board's 10 votes to retire the chief.
At the 11th hour, she said, at least two trustees waffled in
their support, so she shelved the proposal until March.

Anti-chief factions contend that wealthy alumni have long
pressured Illinois governors to maintain the mascot, and
they say that governors, through channels, have pressured
their appointees on the university's board. Governor Rod R.
Blagojevich has said that the decision is a university
matter.

While her fellow trustees were aware of Carroll's passion
for the issue, they did not know the ancestry of the woman
for whom she is named. Frances Graves, Carroll's
grandmother, was a Creek Indian from York, Ala. Carroll
brought a photo of Graves, a light-skinned woman with
straight hair who was wearing a cloth hat and a collared,
white powdery sweater, to an interview at the university's
Chicago campus.

"I haven't really told anyone about that, just didn't see
the need," Carroll said. "They always said she was
full-blooded, but I'm not really sure.

"Anyhow, I never thought about it, being a black woman
sticking up for the American Indian or doing this for my
grandmother. I just thought about doing what's right."

Chief Illiniwek was created in 1926 by the university's
assistant band director, Lester Luetwiler.

The chief's first appearance came during a game against
Penn; he offered a peace pipe to a mascot of William Penn.

Red Grange was the Illini star then, and many alumni
associated the Galloping Ghost with the advent of the chief
era. An icon was born.

Meet the New Chief Matt Veronie, a white graduate student
with spiked, gelled hair and neatly ironed khaki pants, is
the current chief. (An assistant chief sometimes fills in
for him.) At games, Veronie's cheeks are painted Illini
orange and blue. He wears a matching feathered war bonnet
and Lakota-made buckskin; at halftime, he dances and leaps
with a solemn countenance. He wonders about all the fuss.

"I think what I'm doing is a good thing," he said.

After graduating next semester, he said he would work to do
"whatever I can to help people to see the chief tradition
in the way I see it, for the good that it is, for the
respect that it deserves."

"It would be very tough to see the Chief go right now," he
said.

The pull of the mascot for many people involves tradition,
the lure of Illini athletics and college memories.

"I can still remember the first time I saw the chief in law
school," Gadaut, the lawyer from Champaign, said. "The hair
stood right up on my arms. It's my whole heritage in front
of me. Hey, these people can be my heritage even though
this guy's skin is not my color."

He dismissed Carroll and other opponents of the chief as
"leftist social engineers."

The people who want to retire the mascot note that
virtually every major American Indian organization has long
called for the elimination of sports-based Indian
references, as has nearly every civil rights and national
church organization.

American Indians have rarely been heard in the dispute over
the chief, but several members of the university who are
American Indians talked about it one afternoon at the
Native American House on campus.

"The chief is symptomatic of how American society co-opts
the Indian identity and simultaneously romanticizes and
denigrates that identity," said John McKinn, a Maricopa
from the Gila River Indian Community who is assistant
director of the Native American House. "Pseudo-spiritual
dances are passed off as authentic. It just dismisses who
we are."

Tenoso, the great, great granddaugther of Sitting Bull,
described herself as a "reluctant activist."

"I wanted to ignore it and join the Native American club to
learn to make fry bread and go to powwow," she said. "But I
looked up on the wall at a fan shop and saw the chief head
on a seat cushion. Then I went online and noticed one of
the new items for sale is a chief bathroom scale and a
little two-piece toddler set that said, `Love Me and Love
My Chief.' I was pulled in."

Eppley, the chairman of the board of trustees, acknowledged
that he was uncomfortable with the rationale for retaining
the chief.

"A lot of people see it as the dancing rabbi or the black
minstrel," Eppley said. "Logically and historically, it is
really tough to build a case for having it. It's likely a
Boy Scout dance, at best.

"But you can't draw a straight line back to that for people
who like the chief. It's more complex."

Eppley said he would have voted against Carroll's
resolution last month, because he thought she had rushed it
onto the board's agenda.

"I do think it's a matter of when rather than if," he said,
"but we have to find the right time."

Carroll, among others, isn't willing to wait much longer.

"We're in the 21st century in a global society," she said.
"We have to be sensitive to images, thoughts, behaviors
that affect other cultures - cultures that we now know we
were misinformed about."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Chief Illiniwek is part of my geographic heritage," he said. "For anyone to dismiss that because I'm Caucasian, that's racist."
I had never thought of it this way. But I still can’t agree.


"The chief is symptomatic of how American society co-opts the Indian identity and simultaneously romanticizes and denigrates that identity," said John McKinn, a Maricopa from the Gila River Indian Community who is assistant director of the Native American House. "Pseudo-spiritual dances are passed off as authentic. It just dismisses who we are."
This sums up my thoughts very nicely.

I think U of I and the other remaining 1,000 U.S. Universities with athletic programs still referring to American Indians in nicknames, logos or mascots need to change them.

But this is coming from someone who isn’t a typical fan of UW Athletics (I support my friends that are on sports teams but that’s where my interest ends) and couldn’t care less about Bucky the Badger. This point is view is that of someone who is active in the multicultural groups on my campus.

What do the rest of you think about this issue?

[micki76]

My Great Grandmother was 3/4 Cherokee. I personally don't find it offensive that my ancestors are the model for a team mascot.

It doesn’t hurt me, though I’ll readily admit that meeting me you’d never know I have Native American heritage.

I personally don’t think that’s how people see Native Americans. Unfortunately, I think a lot of whites have a view of Natives as alcoholics that don’t do much except gripe about what they lost (not my view, but a widespread one). Alcoholism is actually a huge problem within the native community and I should think time and resources that are being devoted to the school mascot issue would be better spent on more serious matters. Diabetes is an enormous problem that's killing tribal members in huge numbers every year. I think it’s much more important to focus efforts on life saving and life altering causes rather than cry about a tomahawk wielding “Indian” on the jerseys of the local high school’s team.

In one of our neighboring towns the team mascot was a coon. They were the Frisco Fighting Coons. Now, these weren’t the “coons” you may be thinking of; it’s short for racoons. They are little furry creatures, and they were the furry “Coons” for nearly 80 years. In March of 2002 they changed the name to the Raccoons. Not a big deal really. It was a pretty easy transition, but there were still people who hated that the tradition changed.

From the Amarillo Globe-News:

FRISCO (AP) - The Frisco Fighting Coons are no more.
1. Some students and parents in the North Dallas suburb had complained the nickname was racially offensive, and the Frisco School Board agreed Monday night, voting unanimously to change the nickname from Coons to Raccoons.
Superintendent Rick Reedy recommended the change.
Of several dozen people at Monday night's board meeting, many were vocal in their desire to keep the nickname the same as its been for 78 years. Some wore T-shirts and had signs in their yards reading, "Don't Rac my Coons."
Supporters said they had never learned to use "coon" as a racial slur and were proud of the nickname, created in 1924 when no one attached any racial significance to the name.

I don't know the answer, except that you can't pease all of the people all of the time.

[moosmom]

I should think time and resources that are being devoted to the school mascot issue would be better spent on more serious matters.

That is EXACTLY what came to my mind when I first read this thread. *sigh* There are SO many more important issues than a freakin mascot.

[Soledad]

Yes, if I was a white American living comfortably in the suburbs this whole issue would certainly seem to be at the bottom of my list. HOWEVER, this is a HUGE issue for those who want to see themselves fairly represented in America. The way American Indians have been mistreated and are continually mistreated is shameful enough, then we go and make mascots of them??!! That's just pouring salt in the wound if you ask me.

As far as I'm concerned, this is not an issue for non-American Indians to weigh in on. It should be up to them to tell US how they want to be represented. Jeez, if it's such a small detail, why can't we just give it up???

:rolleyes: :mad: :confused:

[2kitties]

<<--- glad she's a Tarheel. Offsensive to no one that I know of.:D

[Soledad]

Excuse me, but as I come from a long line of people disabled with calloused feet, I find it rather derogatory.:p

[2kitties]

lol!
Actually, the term Tarheel for North Carolinians comes from the Revolutionary war. The legend says that when the British came to battle, the North Carlolinian soldiers stood steadfast and corageous as if they had tar on their heels.

Another legend is that the school mascot is Tarheel because Hinton James, the University's very first student, walked all the way to the campus from his home on the coast and when he arrived, had road tar on his feet. But he was so determined to come to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he walked the distance anyway.

Either way, no indians or animals were harmed in this experiment:)

[mugsy]

Well, let's think about this. Sports teams are in place to win and be the best around. So, they choose strong images as mascots. We have no sports teams named the Kittens, no, we have the Lions. I think that it was meant to be complimentary to have mascots and nicknames named after Native Americans. I have always thought that way. I think that there is no group in America that has been more degradated than the Native Americans. But I do not understand why they are disgusted, although, some of the activities that take place are in poor taste, but, the idea of a mascot based on Native Americans should be taken as a compliment. Where I teach, our nickname is the Braves and the term is always used in a most respectful way. The image of the Brave is one of a strong faced, regal looking Native American.

Just my thoughts.

[2kitties]

When I was in 2nd grade, our elementary school allowed the students to vote on a new mascot and colors.
BIG MISTAKE.
To this day, the school is called the Unicorns and the colors are pink and purple. :eek:

True story. I swear.

[Logan]

I can't imagine life in the South without the "Braves", even if they don't win enough games!!!! :)

You make good points, Molly. :) And 2Kitties, wouldn't you give an arm to be able to rename that mascot????? :o

[RICHARD]

I wonder what Ghandi would have thought about the use of Indian names for mascots....:confused:

[2kitties]

Honestly, you just never know what Richard is going to say, do you?

[Soledad]

A stereotype that is thought of as good is still a stereotype. They want representation. Not to be slapped onto a helmet.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
A stereotype that is thought of as good is still a stereotype. They want representation. Not to be slapped onto a helmet.

I rather be slapped on a helmet than slapped on the rear.
That hurts.

And I suppose the calloused-feet people will unite soon to get the name 'football' changed????;)

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by Soledad
As far as I'm concerned, this is not an issue for non-American Indians to weigh in on. It should be up to them to tell US how they want to be represented. Jeez, if it's such a small detail, why can't we just give it up???

I'll second that. After taking away their homeland and livelihoods, are we also going to tell Native Americans that they have no right to be offended when a bunch of white college kids co-opt their image and ceremonies?

Illinois is not exactly a hotbed of sensitivity when it comes to names for team mascots. Pekin (IL) High School's teams used to be called the Chinks. :eek:

[Soledad]

Finally!!! I thought I was the only one who thought this!!

If it's so not a big deal, why not just change the name? What's that saying about being magnanimous in victory....:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

So the Braves will become the Wussies???



I don't think so.:D



And what about the states, cites, and counties named after
the AmerInd tribes???

Isn't the development of those areas a slap at their heritage??


Chief Knock-a-Homa was added to the unemployment roles
because he was being culturally sensitive-and he WAS AN INDIAN!

http://www.laep.org/essay/9_19/pollresponse.html

[Soledad]

Is it either or? I'm sure there are other symbols of bravery to choose from. And what's with the RED SKINS??? That's pretty damn over the top.

[gini]

Originally posted by Soledad
Is it either or? I'm sure there are other symbols of bravery to choose from. And what's with the RED SKINS??? That's pretty damn over the top.

Richard has been training me in his humor.......

RED SKINS???? Aren't those peanuts?;)

[2kitties]

It is just NOT FAIR that I have the funniest, wittiest, most hilarious reply but I can't say it because it's a bit dirty.

Ya'll are missing out too cause it's a good one:D :D :D :cool:

[catland]

My high-school was the "Cardinals" - ooh - I can feel the fear in you now (yea, we sucked at most sports;) )

But my college was the "Vikings". As a decendant of Norway, I consider this to be kind of cool and I don't feel exploited.

I think that some of the resistance is from feeling like we've been PC'd to death.

btw - I like this web site - shows there's nothing like fighting fire with fire:) http://www.fightingwhites.org

[Soledad]

It's not about making a Fighting Whities team, it's about a power imbalance, people.

Fighting Whities is a-okay considering whites in this country are richer, healthier, better educated and more powerful. So, calling a team the Fighting Whities is really no big deal.

However, you take a bunch of white people who are organizing a football team and decide to use the most unrepresented and poory mistreated people in our country and use them as a logo or a mascot and you have a problem.

This is not about being PC, it's about being fair.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
Is it either or? I'm sure there are other symbols of bravery to choose from. And what's with the RED SKINS??? That's pretty damn over the top.

But what would the Wussie mascot look like????

as long as it's no cartoony figure like Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians...

I grew up with Speedy Gonzalez and it gave me a little bit of a charge to to see some 'color' in my cartoons-Not just the
Anglo figures like Shaggy, Josie and the Pussycats, Fred Flintstone and Elmer Fudd -actually Josie was smart, she had a black girl playing in the band......

Where were the 'people of color' in Bedrock?

The Washington Wizards were once known and the Bullets-but to be PC they changed their name.....

LOLOLOLOL..

I find it more offensive if they were called the Washington MAC-10s or the Washington AK-47's.....

The Washington Drive-By Shooters!!!

I vote that all Indian names be taken out of the American lexicon and pushed into obscurity....We did it once with the actual people, are we gonna do it again with their names???

[Logan]

This whole thing is another issue for people to sue about........but there are much more meaningful things in life that are important, than the names of high school, college and professional teams. My goodness we could find fault with every one of them, from Lions, Tigers and Bears to Chiefs, Braves and Redskins. Seems to me that people are looking for an "out" rather than focusing on other life threatening issues. Just my humble opinion..

[2kitties]

*pouts*
I still wish I could tell my dirty joke.

[Soledad]

Nope. Totally off the mark again, Richard. The names don't need to be taken out of usage, but they don't need to be used as mascots so a bunch of non-Indians can profit from it greatly.

*Must keep trying to explain it to people like they're all four year olds*

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
It is just NOT FAIR that I have the funniest, wittiest, most hilarious reply but I can't say it because it's a bit dirty.

Ya'll are missing out too cause it's a good one:D :D :D :cool:


lol


PM ME!!;)

FIGHTING WHITIES?????

Name the last WHITE heavyweight champ!

I rest my case.

Seriously,

I think that instead of wasting time picketing the RFK stadium or whereever Laurie's team plays, why not help out the people themselves...

I do remember watching a documentary about an Southwestern Indian woman who was getting ELECTRICITY in her home...

The 21st century and there are someplaces that are barely getting juice???

Maybe we can help them get flushing toilets before 2050.

Being proud of your heritage is great-but getting your spine out of whack because of a name is a little overboard for me....

But then again, I kinda like the Los Angeles Fighting Wussies....


My last point is about the Olympics.....isn't archery a thing that they AmerInds were good at??? Isn't making it a sport where a bunch of pot head white guys (Jason Huish-american gold medal winner and pot salesman) dominate a slap in the face of the Indians, whose expert skill at killing animals and white folks with arrows was part of THEIR heritage??

If we start to dig deep enough we can find fault with every thing on the planet......


I can hear it now......


"And here's the starting line-up for YOUR LOS ANGELES WUSSIES....."

insert crowd noise here.

[2kitties]

you've been pm'd you wussie.

[RICHARD]

2K....

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

Ahem, it's Fighting Wussie to you!

Soledad,

How long have we been at it?

Relax and sit back for a second.......I was being facetious!

My points is that as long as it's not a stupid show of ignorance
any culture, heritage or background should be or can be recognized.


The Anaheim Angels were just purchased by a Mexican American business man....one of his first priorities was to lower the prices of beer.

Now there's a real problem.....The Catholic Church should protest the Mexican for selling beer while Angels Play, then the community should picket for him lowering the beer prices and promoting alcoholism....

Now they even have the ball games being called in Spanish!!

People will want more hispanic ball players and selling sushi at a
will undoubtably irritate some people of Japanese descent..

And where is PETA while the old 'horsehide' is being tossed around???

The best way to handle a stereotype is to ignore it.

Isn't a Fighting Wussie an oyxmoron???

I opened that can of worms........PM me with any 'moronic complaints'

;)

[Prairie Purrs]

As I see it, having some kid dressed in feathers prancing around the field at halftime is disrespectful toward Native American traditions. Wouldn't there be an outcry if the Fighting Popes sent some kid out in Catholic regalia to do an entertaining dance across the field? Or if the Mighty Baptists showed up with a dunk tank and "baptized" the mascot after touchdowns?

[Soledad]

Or better yet, the Fighting Christians. Their halftime routine could entail nailing Jesus to the cross.

Hmmm...wonder if people would suddenly THEN find this to be an issue of importance.:rolleyes:

[andrea_NMAggie]

wow, look at all of the passion revolving around this topic!

[2kitties]

At this point, I have this image of a fighting Pope chasing a Mighty Baptist to a dunking pool by a Fighting Crucifiction while the Marching Band plays onward Christian Soldiers.

I can't help it. I'm rofl.

[moosmom]

2kitties,

PM me PLEEEEEEZE!!!!

Careful Soledad, you might fall off your soapbox!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by CatsinDenver
As I see it, having some kid dressed in feathers prancing around the field at halftime is disrespectful toward Native American traditions. Wouldn't there be an outcry if the Fighting Popes sent some kid out in Catholic regalia to do an entertaining dance across the field? Or if the Mighty Baptists showed up with a dunk tank and "baptized" the mascot after touchdowns?

Everyone knows that Popes don't fight and Baptizing players on the field is a 15 yard penalty.

I wouldn't trust ANY kid around a bunch of popes anyway.....;)

There have been cases where kids who are of AmerInd descent wanted to portray the Indian mascots themselves.....

I wonder what the team mascots names are in the areas where there are predominately AmerInds in the areas??

How's about a John Wayne High School....

Do they have a cancer riddled John Wayne leading the team out on the field??



One of the most fascinating thing that I have seen is going to cultural events and watching 'ethnic' dances.....

And what about the cheerleaders on the sideline?

Isn't that a smack in the face of women all over????

Here in L.A. they are called the 'LAKER GIRLS'...


Girls???? indeed!

[andrea_NMAggie]

2kitties, i'm dying laughing over here!!!

[2kitties]

Watch it Richard! I was a cheerleader my whole life. I can shake a pom pom with the best of em!:p

[mugsy]

Well, it's the 4 year old weighing in. I agree, there are so many other issues in the Native American communities that protesting the name of sports teams seem rather ridiculous. I was going to apply for a teaching job at a reservation school in Wisconsin and they told me not to bother since I was blonde and green eyed the people wouldn't listen to me. People still have dirt floors, no running water, no heat except a wood stove.....etc. I'm sorry fixing those things seem far more important.

AND I would have to change everything with my state on it....Hmmmm....Hoosierana??

I'm sure we could argue the nicknames and mascots of every school or professional sports team....what about the crazy leprachaun running around Notre Dame stadium??

[2kitties]

I think the Irish love that crazy green leprachaun.

Moosmom- you've been pm'd. I have a sick mind.

[Soledad]

I don't see the Irish living in squalor and being grossly underrepresented. :rolleyes:

[mugsy]

Oh and should they paint over "Touchdown Jesus" at Notre Dame? (It's Christ with outstretched arms that is painted on the chapel...I think...and you can see it from the endzone at the stadium)

[mugsy]

Originally posted by Soledad
I don't see the Irish living in squalor and being grossly underrepresented. :rolleyes:


Ahhh yes, but they are portrayed as drunks..:rolleyes:


And how exactly is it relevent that they are living in squalor and being grossly underrepresented when the discussion started out to be whether or not Native Americans should be represented as mascots for sports teams?

You are not getting an argument from me about fixing the problem of the living conditions on the reservations. Now, that being said, THEY have to do something about fixing it also. I am more than willing to do what I can to help fix it, but I'm not willing to do it if they aren't willing to meet me halfway. There is also the fact that they do not HAVE to live on the reservation. They are citizens as well and are not being kept from running for public office where they could go a long way in helping their People. I think what some people are missing is that there are more important things than fighting a mascot when people are living in 19th century conditions.

[Soledad]

Only if it's a bunch of non-Christians misappropriating their religion and symbols. You can do it to your own, but not to others.

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by mugsy
Oh and should they paint over "Touchdown Jesus" at Notre Dame? (It's Christ with outstretched arms that is painted on the chapel...I think...and you can see it from the endzone at the stadium)

I bet if they moved Touchdown Jesus into the stadium and used him as one of the goalposts, someone would complain.

Then they could sing that old country song, "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life."

[moosmom]

Careful Soledad, you might fall off your soapbox

Fall OFF her soapbox??? Quick, somebody SHOVE her, QUICK will ya???!!!

[mugsy]

Originally posted by CatsinDenver
I bet if they moved Touchdown Jesus into the stadium and used him as one of the goalposts, someone would complain.

Then they could sing that old country song, "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life."


You're talking about Notre Dame here.....football is God there (except maybe academics being that most of their athletes get their degrees in something other than underwater basketweaving.) I seriously doubt anyone would complain....have you ever been to a Notre Dame game??

They would probably welcome it....it might help to have a littel divine intervention....Please God, don't strike me down! ;) :p

[Logan]

Originally posted by moosmom
Fall OFF her soapbox??? Quick, somebody SHOVE her, QUICK will ya???!!!

I'm ready to shove her, quick. Soledad, I think you're looking for argument...........and I think you're fighting for the wrong thing here. There are much more productive arguments out there besides what a silly nickname does or doesn't do for a group of people.

[2kitties]

I think this is something that Soledad clearly feels very strongly about. So I don't think it's fair to make light of her views.

But I'd like to point out that in this thread I have refrained from posting a dirty joke AND I have managed to stay off any soapbox. It's a Wild Feeling! When does Thursday's open.

[mugsy]

Dont' forget.....we are 4 year olds! :rolleyes:

Oh yeah....I'm sure I'll get a sarcastic response....so I'll wait here in breathless anticipation! ;)

But, Logan, you're right....that's what I've been trying to say, but some are not getting the point.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy


I'm sure we could argue the nicknames and mascots of every school or professional sports team....what about the crazy leprachaun running around Notre Dame stadium??

NOW HE GIVES ME THE CREEPS!!!

And some of the guys on that football team aren't Irish.....

that's a bit disconcerting!!;)


2K....

My point was that they are called 'girls'..

NOT WOMEN.....It's hard to fixate on ladies doing the splits when the are reffered to as 'girls'..


Soledad,

Here's a question for you..

If you were an AmerInd living in a dirt floored hut in some back woods area would you rather have a person representing your
tribe...

A) fighting against a sports team named after your tribe

B) going to washington and fighting for more money for your area

Actually it would be so UN-PC to have the christians nail Jesus to the cross...........If memory serves me correctly it was the OTHER team who did it:eek:

[Soledad]

I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.

Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.

[moosmom]

Why the heck doesn't she quit while she's ahead??? Geez, there are SO many more important issues than a stupid mascot!!

[Soledad]

If you feel the issue is so trivial, why do you keep posting???

So, you feel this issue is unworthy of anyone's time? Why do you keep posting to argue that with me. Surely, it should be beneath you.

[Prairie Purrs]

Why should anyone who is facing many injustices have to pick only one to fight against???

Do you really think that someone who is offended by having his or her heritage belittled by team mascots doesn't also speak out against other forms of prejudice?

Are y'all really saying that it's OK to be a little bit racist, as long as it's in good fun?

[moosmom]

I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.

And you aren't a few fries short of a happy meal???

Uh-huh. That is DEFINITELY the pot calling the kettle black (oops, sorry, didn't mean to stereotype anyone) :eek: I meant to say "dark". Yeah, that's it...DARK!!! :rolleyes:

At least I know when to quit.

[mugsy]

Originally posted by Soledad
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.

Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.

You know Soledad, this thread is getting a bit heated, but no one has stooped so low as to sling insults until you did.....can't you come up with something better? At least Richard can inject humor into it to lighten the mood AND be serious at the same time....it's a special talent. And moosmom is just voicing her opinion, just like you and did not do the name calling game.

[Soledad]

Funny, you're telling ME I don't know when to stop. You can't help yourself, can you?

Take the pills, honey. You can do it.

[moosmom]

Thanks Mugsy!!

[mugsy]

Originally posted by CatsinDenver
Are y'all really saying that it's OK to be a little bit racist, as long as it's in good fun?

Where do you get that it's racist? They are complimenting them for God's sake. The teams want something that is strong and decisive...how is that racist? Yes, the mascots could be A LOT less stupid acting and more respectful if they are dressed in Native American garb.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
I never take Moo's Mom's posts seriously. She's so clearly emotionally unstable.

Who's to say that those fighting against the use of American Indian mascots aren't ALSO fighting other fights for the community. It's not always so black and white and so either or.

come on....

I was having fun until you said that.

I'm the emotionally unstable one....

Like one coach said 'It's not the size of the dog in the fight, It's the size of the fight in the dog.'

Fighting injustices in America is a great thing!

Why?

Because we can!

Passion is great when you are in love, But passion gets in the way when you don't see eye to eye....

Sometimes fighting the 'good fight' will wear you down and it ends in a draw.....

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by mugsy
Where do you get that it's racist? They are complimenting them for God's sake. The teams want something that is strong and decisive...how is that racist? Yes, the mascots could be A LOT less stupid acting and more respectful if they are dressed in Native American garb.

The Native Americans don't see it as a compliment. They see it as someone appropriating and parodying their traditions and dress. Kinda like a minstrel show.

[Soledad]

I guess it is a compliment. Just like telling black people how good they were at picking cotton and playing banjos.:rolleyes: :mad:

[moosmom]

ES&D!

Ya know, for an athiest, you sure have a Holier-Than-Thou attitude. Sounds like you could use some boody, girlfriend.

[Logan]

Soledad, you have proven yourself to be cruel and uncaring time and time again, which is why your arguments for Native Americans or any other minority group fall on deaf ears, as far as as I am concerned. You, who make jokes of those who are illiterate, or can't speak proper English, should be careful who you defend. Just remember your cruel words in regards to respected Pet Talk members before you start casting stones at our opinions on other members posts. I would think you, of all people, would remain silent on an issue like this one.

There is no one that I have seen that is not in support of the Native American needs........all that I have read just think that fighting against mascots on teams, whether they be high school, college or professional is a drop in the bucket compared to the other needs of that particular culture.

[Soledad]

Boody? Do you mean booty?

I assure you, I am regularly serviced.

[mugsy]

Ok, nevermind....you'll never get the point I'm trying to make and obviously have no interest in doing so, so I am not going to waste my time. I've talked to A LOT of Native Americans who feel the same way I do and are offended at the people who are doing the protesting, so I choose to listen to the people who are actually a part of the "fight" and not those who think they know what every minority group in the world wants. Unfortunately, the protesters are the ones who get the publicity.

[moosmom]

I assure you, I am regularly serviced.

Oh well, geez! TMI for me!! I'm done now. I get more mature conversation from my cats than Humpty Dumpty (Soledad) here.

BTW, thanks for the support everyone!

[RICHARD]

here in CA we have the AZTECS from the UNI of San Diego...

They had (another un-pc mascot) a guy dressed up as Montezuma and the Hispanic community raised a stink about him...

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/campusconnection/2699648/detail.html

Now he is a more accurate representation of
and Aztec warrior.....

Would that help in the ND mascot case???

Get him a better looking pair of shoes and make him taller???

The Florida State Seminoles have an ass kicking mascot. This guy comes flying out on a horse with a huge headdress on....
_-----------

The Florida State Chief is steeped in history and tradition. Perhaps the most spectacular tradition in all of college football occurs in Doak Campbell Stadium when a student portraying the famous Seminole Indian leader, Chief Osceola, charges down the field riding an Appaloosa horse named Renegade and plants a flaming spear at midfield to begin every home game.

The history of the Seminole Indians in Florida is the story of a noble, brave, courageous, strong and determined people who, against great odds, struggled successfully to preserve their heritage and live their lives according to their traditions and preferences. From its earliest days as a university, Florida State has proudly identified its athletic teams with these heroic people because they represent the traits they wanted their athletes to have.


While it may be a little disrepsectful to some to see that happen, how can it hurt to see someone portray a group of people?

Again,

If they had some guy carrying a jug of firewater and doing a crazy drunken indian dance while trying to scalp a cheerleader I'd have problems with that....

But then again, if you go into some states and choose to view a real Indian do a real Indian dance so you drop a few buck in town-who's doing the exploiting??

[2kitties]

RICHARD! It's time to open the bar!

[Prairie Purrs]

http://www.racismagainstindians.org/UnderstandingMascots.htm

[catland]

excelent article CinD.

I did not know for example, about Indians being forbidden to practice their religion.

I think one of the issues here is how people who support the mascots are branded as "racist" when they are really just uninformed. This can then make them defensive because they know that they aren't racists.

There are traditions of using strong warrior names for school teams such as "Vikings", "Trojans" (stop giggling 2k and Gini), and "Spartans". I think that many people, myself included, thought of the word "Braves" in this same fashion, as a compliment, and not a put-down. Which is why we cringe when someone calls us racists.

Education is the best way to tackle this issue.

[gini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catland
[B].


(stop giggling 2k and Gini)

I have to admit that I am giggling............along with a bunch of other folks.........but not about your comments:D :D :D

[2kitties]

Trojans, she said Trojans.giggles

[gini]

Yeah, 2k - I went to a big party for the football game between USC AND UCLA......there were lots of Trojans there.............and some Bruins too:D

[2kitties]

See, now ya'll just get me in trouble. I'm a smart girl. I know where you're trying to get me to go with this. Then everybody will be all in a huff about it.
Say No To Smutt!

[RICHARD]

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Office of Indian Affairs--Washington

Supplement to Circular No. 1665
February 14, 1923
Indian Dancing

To Superintendants:

At a conference in October, 1922, of the missionaries of the several religious denominations represented in the Sioux country, the following
recommendations were adopted and have been courteously submitted to this office:
1.
That the Indian form of gambling and lottery known as the 'ituranpi' (translated 'Give Away') be prohibited.

2.
That the Indian dances be limited to one in each month in the daylight hours of one day in the midweek, and at one center in each district;
the months of March and April, June, July, and August be excepted.

3.
That none take part in the dances or be present who are under 50 years of age.

4.
That a careful propaganda be undertaken to educate public opinion against the dance and to provide a healthy substitute.

5.
That there be close cooperation between the Government employees and the missionaries in those matters which affect the moral
welfare of the Indians.


These recommendations, I am sure, were the result of sincere thought and discussion, and in view of their helpful spirit, are worthy of our
careful consideration. They agree in……



-----------------------------------------------

Check it out.........

now let me get this straight...

In 1923 the government was trying to stamp out Indian Dancing in the Sioux Nation and in 2003
the Indians are trying to stamp out Indian
Dancing in the American Nation.

I know there is a difference in the two- but isn't the basic message of both movements that Indians-in any shape or form shouldn't dance???

I'm a little more rattled about St Paddy's day and Cinco De Mayo......

You see people wearing buttons saying,"Kiss me, I'm Irish!"

AHA! Drunken Irish Sex Fiends must be the norm-
Not to mention the all the college frat kids
wearing a Mexican sombrero slamming down Coronas
on May 5th...

Actually the May 5th group doesn't bother me that much.......slurred english is just as unintelligble as slurred spanish....I know, I speak both.

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by catland
excelent article CinD.

I did not know for example, about Indians being forbidden to practice their religion.

I think one of the issues here is how people who support the mascots are branded as "racist" when they are really just uninformed. This can then make them defensive because they know that they aren't racists.

There are traditions of using strong warrior names for school teams such as "Vikings", "Trojans" (stop giggling 2k and Gini), and "Spartans". I think that many people, myself included, thought of the word "Braves" in this same fashion, as a compliment, and not a put-down. Which is why we cringe when someone calls us racists.

Education is the best way to tackle this issue.

I agree entirely that education is needed--but sometimes a wake-up call is needed, too.

My belief is that a practice that is offensive to a large percentage of a particular racial group is a racist practice and should be discontinued. And I don't think schools will bother to change their mascots until they recognize that it's a racist practice.

Here's another interesting link on the issue:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/levesque/106471_leve30.shtml

And to emphasize a quote from that editorial:

"It's entirely possible that not all ethnic and racial nicknames started life as pejoratives. But when cultural evolution does make them offensive to a segment of society, shouldn't all of society strive to remove the thorn rather than jam it in deeper? Instead of saying, "Deal with it," shouldn't we be bigger than we were yesterday, better than we were yesterday, and seek common ground?"

[RICHARD]

CID,


My high school team was named the 'Parrots'.

http://poly.lausd.k12.ca.us/index.html

Tell me, you would fear a giant parrot in a yellow cardigan sweater??

It didn't do my fragile ego any good to sit across from a crowd yelling, POLY WANT A CRACKER???

I would have chosen a more masculine, warrior like
mascot to represent our high school and our sports teams......


I just thought of the Fighting Wussies too late.
;)

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Geeeez what a good time to visit PetTalk. I know one thing the Indians are getting plenty of money here in California from their casinos, I know because I help contribute. Their casinos are huge many of them outdoing Las Vegas, and it is all California tax free. I think it would be wise of them to take the money that they give to people in politics and spread it around to their own people throughout the country who are living in poverty.
As far as mascots, Soledad your a little more intelligent than to worry about what a mascot is named. We have a baseball team here called "The Padres" I guess all you liberals will be running to the Supreme Court to make them change their name, let's see it's called "PetCo Stadium" so we could call them "The Dogs", no that would be infringing on dogs rights.
Come on Soledad wake up and smell the coffee.
Jackie

[catland]

Give me a W.... Give me a U... Give me an S... Give me another S....

;)

[Soledad]

You're so right, JackieDaisy. I guess I never thought of it that way. Wow. You've totally changed my entire outlook on life with your clear and fluid logic. :rolleyes:

[mugsy]

"W", "U", "S"!!!!


Ok, so I did post again, but, someone had to help with the cheer.....;) :D :)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy
"W", "U", "S"!!!!


Ok, so I did post again, but, someone had to help with the cheer.....;) :D :)

shortchange the team an 's' why don't you!;)

[Prairie Purrs]

Originally posted by RICHARD
CID,


My high school team was named the 'Parrots'.

http://poly.lausd.k12.ca.us/index.html

Tell me, you would fear a giant parrot in a yellow cardigan sweater??

It didn't do my fragile ego any good to sit across from a crowd yelling, POLY WANT A CRACKER???

I would have chosen a more masculine, warrior like
mascot to represent our high school and our sports teams......


I just thought of the Fighting Wussies too late.
;)

My high school team was named the Hilltoppers. Nobody had the foggiest idea what a Hilltopper was.

And how sexist of you to want a "masculine" mascot! What about the girls' (er, womyn's) teams? ;)

[lizbud]

A few years ago some area groups protested against our
Indianapolis Indians Baseball team's (American League) logo.
It was awful. A caricature of an American Indian with a blood
red face , big nose & skinny body, welding a tomahawk. After
some discussion & shared views it was changed to an American
Indian like art symbol like this

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hotcorneronline/inbas.html

Everybody agrees it's a much better logo & not at all offensive
to any group of people.

[mugsy]

Well....catland only had 1 "S"....give me a break! lol

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by CatsinDenver
My high school team was named the Hilltoppers. Nobody had the foggiest idea what a Hilltopper was.

And how sexist of you to want a "masculine" mascot! What about the girls' (er, womyn's) teams? ;)

what?

womyn can't be wussies either??

----------------------------
Main Entry: wuss
Pronunciation: 'wus
Variant(s): also wus·sy /'wu-sE/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural wuss·es also wus·sies
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1983
: WIMP
- wussy adjective

----------------------------

the fighting wimps isn't as edgy....

----------------------------

Main Entry: hill·top
Pronunciation: 'hil-"täp
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
: the highest part of a hill
----------------------------

Now, that one has me stumped!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
A few years ago some area groups protested against our
Indianapolis Indians Baseball team's (American League)

Everybody agrees it's a much better logo & not at all offensive
to any group of people.

I told you Chief Wahoo was a troublemaker!

Just wait until all your address labels have to be changed to Nativeamericanapolis, Nativeamericana.

:eek: ;)

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by 2kitties
At this point, I have this image of a fighting Pope chasing a Mighty Baptist to a dunking pool by a Fighting Crucifiction while the Marching Band plays onward Christian Soldiers.

I can't help it. I'm rofl.

I couldn't get any further in the thread. without commenting...too funnny!!!! Love the visual!!!


My high school was the "Black Knights" I was so glad I went to one of the small schools outside Findlay, instead of Findlay High School...did not want to be a Trojan!

[Karen]

Thank you, 2Kitties, for being a grown up and showing restraint. Big hug to you!


I don't mind debates, folks, but BE POLITE! No slinging insults back and forth, or questioning anyone's sanity - after all, many non-pet-lovers would think we're ALL crazy.

[micki76]

My high school team was the Fighting Farmers. Now, that was embarrassing.

Edit to add this:

Soledad, you would make your point better and people would take you and your opinion a lot more seriously if you cut the sarcasm, the name calling and the insinuations. Oh, your attitude that you are better than all of us is getting a little old.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

My high school mascot are the "Hunters". It's a guy, aiming a gun at something. That's realllllly appropriate for school, eh? :rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

My school's mascot is the "Sponger"....We were listed on the top ten stupidest highschool mascots on David Letterman.

[mugsy]

My high school's mascot was the Spartan and IPFW (college) was the Mastodons because they've found 3 mastodon skeletons on the campus.

Now, if my parents had moved to Wisconsin when I was in high school, I would have attended a school whose population was 150 K-12 and whose nickname was the Fighting Evergreens and the mascot was a pine tree....top that one!!

[micki76]

Originally posted by Kfamr
My school's mascot is the "Sponger"....We were listed on the top ten stupidest highschool mascots on David Letterman.

Sponger? As in an absorbent material used to wash cars and wipe counters???

[Kfamr]

" Mr. Sponger" (like Prom King) wears a sponge on his head. EAT THAT.

Edit:

LMAO.... BEAT THAT, too.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by micki76
Sponger? As in an absorbent material used to wash cars and wipe counters???

Sponger as in the people who dive for sponges.:p

[gini]

LIKE SPONGE BOB, SQUARE PANTS:D :D

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by gini
LIKE SPONGE BOB, SQUARE PANTS:D :D

LOL! That's what I first thought of too. :D

[micki76]

KayAnn, you win. :p :D

[mugsy]

You mean to tell me that Sponger beats an Evergreen tree??? :p ;)

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by gini
LIKE SPONGE BOB, SQUARE PANTS:D :D

Actually, I heard a while back that they were considering using him as out mascot.

[micki76]

Originally posted by mugsy
You mean to tell me that Sponger beats an Evergreen tree??? :p ;)

Uh, no. I think we actually have a tie. Trees and spongers.

As a person with a bit of Native American blood coursing through my veins, I would like to rename all these lame team mascots on your beahlf and change them all to something noble and proud from my heritage. :)

[andrea_NMAggie]

Dare I ask what you'd rename them as? :p

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Karen

I don't mind debates, folks, but BE POLITE! No slinging insults back and forth, or questioning anyone's sanity - after all, many non-pet-lovers would think we're ALL crazy.

I'l be the first to admit it.:eek:
I'm crazy..

another BTW..the Cal State Northridge team is named the
"matadors" which literally means 'killers' and the guy that 'dispatches' the bull in a bull fight-in spanish.

Now, is that offensive to all killers or just killers who are Latino?


Monty Montezuma was not an option in San Diego but Being a killer in Los Angeles is?????


let me scratch my head for a moment....

[micki76]

Originally posted by andrea_NMAggie
Dare I ask what you'd rename them as? :p

Nope. I'd get scalped if I did! :p

Wow, that was b a d. :p

[Karen]

Well, you'd have to be careful and considerate of history. Say, for example, the Micmacs (where my bit of Native American heritage comes from) played against the Nipmucs (the tribe that inhabited my hometwon before white folks settled it (the third time) I'm pretty sure the Nipmucs would "slaughter 'em" every time. They wiped out the first two attempts by immigrant white folk to settle my town ...

and, by the way, our high school teams were "Pirates" - but with our orange blazers and black pants, we called ourselves the marching pumpkins!

Hey, I know! Lets rename all teams with the names of diseases or bacteria - far more deadly than Pirates, "Indians" or Vikings, and more successful over the long run!

"Gooooo Small Pox! Yeah!"

[micki76]

Originally posted by Karen
Hey, I know! Lets rename all teams with the names of diseases or bacteria - far more deadly than Pirates, "Indians" or Vikings, and more successful over the long run!

"Gooooo Small Pox! Yeah!"

LOL

Headline:

Anthrax kills Small Pox 21-14!

:p :p :p

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Karen


Hey, I know! Lets rename all teams with the names of diseases or bacteria - far more deadly than Pirates, "Indians" or Vikings, and more successful over the long run!

"Gooooo Small Pox! Yeah!"

Hmmmm, sharing a mircroscope with 64,999 other fans would take some getting used to.

In my best howard cosell voice......


"The Pox are immune to the Anthrax' attack!- Listen to those fans!!!The atmosphere here in the Dome is infectious...!"

[mugsy]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Hmmmm, sharing a mircroscope with 64,999 other fans would take some getting used to.

In my best howard cosell voice......


"The Pox are immune to the Anthrax' attack!- Listen to those fans!!!The atmosphere here in the Dome is infectious...!"


OMG....That is so BAD!! You make me laugh Richard....

[Pam]

Originally posted by Logan
Soledad, You, who make jokes of those who are illiterate, or can't speak proper English, should be careful who you defend.

So true Logan. It's called talking out of both sides of one's mouth. Oh and let's not forget, this is the person who taught her dog all of his tricks in the first day she got him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[aly]

Whoa guys :eek: I know Kate did not mean for this thread to go in this direction. I'm afraid to even say my opinion on this topic now :o

Anyway, my high school mascot was a Highlander. I thought he was pretty cool, but other schools had fun teasing us about our mascot being a guy in a "skirt" :rolleyes: (kilt).

[RICHARD]

lol,

being a deist and a recovering catholic.....

this bugged me...

Moi???

offended???

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/bobbleheadworldstore/footjesbobhe.html


My horror aside-- don't you think Jesus deserves a QuarterBack Number, as opposed to a kicker???

Quarterbacks are real men......Kickers are wussies.

[RICHARD]

and if that wasn't enough to shake my being to the core...

http://www.catholicshopper.com/products/inspirational_sport_statues.html


Come on...........

Hey Jesus, you better change your robe before your mom sees you playing in your school clothes.:o

My favorite is 'layup Jesus'.....

White men can jump.

[Kfamr]

LMAO. Those are hilarious! :o :D

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Oh Richard. :D
Those are HILARIOUS! I like the football one. :p

[wolf_Q]

There was a big debate recently here about renaming a high school mascot...they were the "Red Devils." People thought that was portraying a bad image to the children. :rolleyes: If I remember right, the mascot name has been around since the school was built...they were named after some company (cement maybe?) that donated supplies to build it. I'm not sure if they ended up changing it or not.

I was a Viking in high school...now I'm a Wolverine. I want to be the mascot at the school my mom works at, they're the Huskies! :D

A college here has an Indian mascot, the University of Utah Utes. I haven't heard of any controversy over it, but I did notice that their actual mascot (guy dressed up) is now a hawk.

[RICHARD]

Jesus' favorite teams are the Cardinals and the Saints...

Just so you know.

He doesn't like the Raiders tho.....:(

Red Devils!!!!

Aren't you posting that a little to close to Football Jesus???:eek:

[Twisterdog]

When I was in junior high, I was a Panther.

My son is in junior high now, and he is a Cougar.

The high schoolers here are Tigers.

I guess we're just a feline kind of town ... rather strange since nary a panther, cougar or tiger has ever inhabited this area. LOL


In college I was a Boilermaker.


Don't know why I'm posting this, it doesn't answer the original question, and no one cares. LOL Must mean it is time to go to bed! :p

[2kitties]

I think the worst are the poor souls who attend the University of South Carolina.
Gamecocks.
All innocent enough since it refers to a rooster.
But the school chants Go Cocks during games.

To avoid the risk of being dirty and offensive, I conclude my arguments on this school. :D

[primabella]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I think the worst are the poor souls who attend the University of South Carolina.
Gamecocks.
All innocent enough since it refers to a rooster.
But the school chants Go Cocks during games.

To avoid the risk of being dirty and offensive, I conclude my arguments on this school. :D

LMAO!! I'm getting tickets to their next game. :p

We're the Rams. Not bad, I guess.

[Logan]

2kitties, do you know that the school has made the decision, this year, to "ban" the use of "Cocks" in any of their advertising, cheers, t-shirts, etc?? It raised quite a riot among Gamecock fans! I am not a Gamecock fan, as I attended the archrival, Clemson.

[2kitties]

lol- I guess they like calling themselves cocks! (again treading lightly with this term...;) )

We call ourselves Heels. But I don't think anybody gets angry about it- especially when we're kicking the heck out of Duke.

Go TarHeels!

How does that work, Logan, Clemson and USC being arch rivals but not being in the same conference? No championships battles, but still regional braggin rights?

[catland]

First, Dear Mugsy - please re-read my post - I did have two S's:eek:

Second, you think gamecocks are bad? Our two major state universities here are the University of Oregon Ducks (ok, not bad, just not very threatening) and the Oregon State Beavers.

[2kitties]

hee hee she said beavers hee hee

[catland]

you think that's bad. Its also our state animal and is on the back of our state flag.

http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst061b.gif

[Logan]

How does that work, Logan, Clemson and USC being arch rivals but not being in the same conference? No championships battles, but still regional braggin rights?

The conference doesn't matter anymore.......it is "state" bragging rights. We definitely have that in football this year (definitely not in basketball, though).

[gini]

I once went to a game between the Oregon Ducks and UCLA.

It rained and rained and rained.....................I was with some diehards who would just not leave.

My friend and I complained that we could be in a nice place with a fireplace, having a drink, watching it on television.

The next year I asked the guys who played in the game when it rained so hard. NOT ONE OF THEM REMEMBERED!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Gini...do you mean it was like water off a duck's back to them??????

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
First, Dear Mugsy - please re-read my post - I did have two S's:eek:




LOL,

I wasn't gonna correct the teacher.....;)

[mugsy]

Leave me alone!! I'm stressed!! hehehehe Ok....here you go.


"W" "U" "S" "S"!!!

Ok....is that better?? lol


Boy have we ever gotten derailed!!

[2kitties]

could you two please stop calling one another names?

[catland]

only if you pm me your joke;)

[2kitties]

done deal catland!

[RICHARD]

Cruising thru the channels and came across a commercial on
MTV.....

The commercial talks about a school team with the nickname of
"Nimrods"...


The commercial goes on and talks about how everyone is excited about basketball season when the Nimrods play.....
The tag line is something like..

"If it weren't for sports, who would cheer for the Nimrods...."

Now, isn't that kinda disrespectful to the nimrods in the world???