Should illegal aliens have the right to vote and receiving Social Security?

[mugsy]

I was listening to the radio and heard that Tom Ridge thinks that all illegal aliens here in the States should have the right to vote. What do you guys think? Also, the Bush administration is contemplating paying illegal aliens Social Security benefits if and when they go back to wherever they came from.

[2kitties]

Well, at first glance, my thought is Hell No. But, before making that judgement, I'll need more information. My instinct tells me there is more to this policy than what you have posted.

[mugsy]

That's all I heard....I was in the car and talking so only caught part of it.

[2kitties]

Well, I would look up the information myself, but I'm too busy googling "penis" for Soledad and lbaker.
I'll try to get to it over the weekend;)

[catland]

Like 2k said, there's probably more to this but my initial reaction is "no" and "no".

First, by definition, being an "illegal" alien means they've broken the law. We strip felons of the right to vote - why would we give the vote to non-citizens who are breaking the law by their very presence?

SS benefits? This is really a republican wanting this? (sounds like a contratiction in terms)

[popcornbird]

Giving foreigners the right to vote.............not even foreigners, but ILLEGAL aliens? Though I agree with 2kitties in needing more information, my first initial reaction was.........NO! :eek:

[Freckles]

NO!

[RICHARD]

no and no....

That is a big point of contention here in CA...

Illegal aliens want the right to get a DL........

To register a car you need insurance.....

We have tons of people driving around with neither and when you get into an accident there is no way to get your car fixed-
If there is no-one hurt and the car is drivable you just watch them drive off because the cops will not send anyone out unless
there is an injury or death..


Social Security is for the folks that have put into the fund.....

I guess it's a 'humanitarian' arguement, but we have already 'taxed' our social services, school, and medical programs all across the country.....we need to make reforms as it is-adding to the confusion will not help.

[KYS]

NO and NO for me too!

[Pam]

Short and sweet - NO!

[trayi52]

No, and No. I repeat NO!

[dukedogsmom]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

[Twisterdog]

NO and NO



First, by definition, being an "illegal" alien means they've broken the law. We strip felons of the right to vote - why would we give the vote to non-citizens who are breaking the law by their very presence?

Excellent point.

[CathyBogart]

Abso-friggin-lutely NOT!

[trayi52]

Very well said WolfChan!!!!

Tray

[Heather Wallace]

Here in the UK, asylum seekers (legit or not) are given a flat and social security, i think the UK government are to soft.

This basically means that we have a housing problem due to the fact the uk takes everyone and anyone in.

[moosmom]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!! :mad: :mad: The key word here is ILLEGAL alien.

Why the heck should they? They are in OUR country ILLEGALLY. U.S. citizens should get what they are rightfully entitled to. No one knows whether there's gonna be enough Social Security around when I get old, let alone worry about some stupid people who have entered OUR country ILLEGALLY, paying no taxes or contributing to society!!

Even considering it would be a slap in the face to every single American Citizen who has worked long and hard for the right to vote and collect SS when the time comes.

On another note, I also think that ANYONE who has committed a serious (murder, child molestation, cop killers) should have their right to vote revoked.

[carole]

If this was proposed in my country I would also say a big flat NO, it cannot be a free ride for all, we have to take care of our own first.

Until recently women were coming to NZ to have their babies from overseas, and getting it all on the NZ taxpayer, at last they have finally put a stop to it, not before time either.

[mahayana]

I doubt that this story is credible. Bush was in talks with Pres Fox of Mexico before 911 about amnesty for illegals, which is a chance to register and either become a US citizen or (at the discretion of Immigration), be deported.

You can't get a SS# or vote without a birth certificate showing proof of citizenship. Can't get a DL without a SS# and proof of liability insurance.

Now some folks may have false documents.

My main reaction is to say that most of these people are good, productive citizens who have to look over their shoulders all the time. They do pay sales taxes, but don't pay income taxes. The people who hire them are lawbreakers, too.

It would be great to find a solution that doesn't hurt either us or them!

[babolaypo65]

My vote, which may come as a surprise is NO and NO. Though the driver's license one has me a little mixed.... we keep talking about "them" learning our language and assimilating, but then don't make that possible. Can we actually make "them" leave? no, but we do sorta make it impossible to assimilate.... so I'm a little mixed....

[Soledad]

Actually illegal aliens do pay taxes. Each year the government receives a load of money that cannot be accounted for. This is from illegal aliens.

Here is just one article to back that up....

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2003/042003/04132003/938187



No one knows whether there's gonna be enough Social Security around when I get old, let alone worry about some stupid people who have entered OUR country ILLEGALLY, paying no taxes or contributing to society!!

[mugsy]

I'm sorry, I haven't posted because I wanted to sit back and watch. Honestly, if they pay taxes, great, but they DO NOT deserve the benefits. They are breaking the law by being here and if they pay taxes....that's the breaks...if you don't like it...go back where you came from and save us all a lot of bother.

Actually, I was listening to an INS person and someone else close to the law makers that are trying to get this passed being interviewed.

I know that my opinion probably won't be very welcome, but, that's the way I feel and always have felt. Oh and Soledad....just so you know I was raised by 2 Democrats. ;) And I am an Independent, with liberal views on many things (most actually) and some conservative views.

[Soledad]

I'm not bothered at all by your post, Mugsy. You always make salient points.

I guess my issue is that a lot of people run their mouths about how "these people" don't pay taxes and are breaking the law. But they ARE paying taxes and our government reeps the benefits of it. That's to say nothing about the boost they give our economy by doing the jobs that the vast majority of Americans refuse to do.

I think, like all things really, the issue is VERY complex and we seem to be told selective information about it.

*Shrug*

[mahayana]

And, once again, the AMERICAN citizens who hire them are breaking the law. Saving a buck by not paying the legal wage, and stigmatizing the majotity of Hispanic citizens.

Figuring out how to get the good people into the citizenship process before our new Patriot Act INS starts jailing them is the pertinent issue. The time is approaching when we all will regularly be asked for our papers by the cops.

[lbaker]

NO NO & NO! and yet... and yet, when I lived and worked on a horse ranch in Marin County CA we could not find any snotty young Marin County boys, or people at all that would come to help clean the stalls and feed the horses. OK, not a glamorous job but it paid (legal wages) and we offered a free place to live, albeit a trailer - but most of us lived in trailers too. We found Mexicans that probably were illegal but worked hard, showed up on time and were willing to do anything they were asked. A conundrum for sure. But I feel we should NOT offer social security rights or voting rights. There is a process to become a citizen if one would care to try.

[Soledad]

Exactly, Mahayana. The illegal immigrants only come here to get work and make a better life for themselves. But why is it that all we hear about is them and not the people who break the law to make an extra buck and hire them? Hmmmmmm.....

[mahayana]

But you can't presently go apply for citizenship, if you entered the country illegally. And, at this time there are not enough police to arrest, or jails to hold, the ones here from Mexico.

[dukedogsmom]

Believe me, there are plenty here that get arrested. I don't know about them being illegal or not, though. We have daily reports about who got arrested and for what crimes.

[babolaypo65]

I don't think we can say that illegal immigrants are law abiding or law breaking (other than sneaking in). Some are good folks some are not. Just as some AMERICANS are law abiding good folks, and some are not.

If I had not had the luck of being born in a wealthy country who's to say I wouldn't have snuck in here. I'd like to think I'd want a better life, and a chance to do better.
Lord knows I didn't do anything to be born here. I just was. Lucky me.

[trayi52]

I agree with you about the lawbreaker.

Did anyone happen to think about the movie Chico starrd in, I think it was called "Born in the USA", at least thats what I think it was called.

This just made me think of that movie. Sorry to get off the subject.

[zanzanfergie]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
I don't think we can say that illegal immigrants are law abiding or law breaking (other than sneaking in). Some are good folks some are not. Just as some AMERICANS are law abiding good folks, and some are not.

If I had not had the luck of being born in a wealthy country who's to say I wouldn't have snuck in here. I'd like to think I'd want a better life, and a chance to do better.
Lord knows I didn't do anything to be born here. I just was. Lucky me.
I agree with everything you've said. Many of these people just want a better life.

This has become an issue in Australia too, although we struggle more with asylum seekers, and I don't know if that's what you're referring to by "illegal aliens", or just people who come to live in the US without permission.

I don't know very much, so please don't all jump on me if I'm ignorant. But from what I do know, I feel very sorry for many of these people. Even though 95% have immigrated purely to find a better life for themselves and their family (that's in Australia), they have no rights as a mass. The Government can do with them what they please, even though there are children involved, and parents who will abide by the countries laws, pay tax, learn english, all that kind of stuff.

So it upsets me when a whole lot of people just say 'No' straight away.

And again, I'm sorry if it's different for the US. Or if I have any of my facts wrong. It's all IMHO.

[mugsy]

An illegal alien is someone who comes to the country without permission. I don't have a problem with people who come here with a green card and live law abiding lives. I have a good friend who lives here on a green card and has since 1979 when he came here from England to play soccer at Bowling Green University. He does not want to give up his English citizenship, so therefore he just stays with his green card. I don't have a problem with people being here in visas as long as they don't overstay their visit. I admire anyone who comes here for a better life and takes the necessary steps to become a citizen so they can reap the benefit of being an American. I DO have a problem with people who come across the border or have a temporary visa and then just stay and reap the benefits of being an American, when they AREN'T one, and they have no INTENTION of becoming one.

zanzan....I'm not jumping on you, just trying to explain. Does that help define my position?

[KYS]

Illegal's do reap the benefits, such as free
medical care, public schools and free meals program
in the public schools. While illegals do pay some taxes,
they do not pay their fair share.

While it is also true that many take jobs such hard labor jobs as
farm work that most American's do NOT want to do, they
do take away other jobs that poor american's
will take, such as house cleaning, printing etc.

But lets us not only blame the illegals, we need
to place the blame on the employers that will pay the illegals
below minimum wage so they do not have to
hire legals/americans at minium wage who would take
these jobs.

JMHO

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Well, I would look up the information myself, but I'm too busy googling "penis" for Soledad and lbaker.
I'll try to get to it over the weekend;)


WHAT? What did I miss?

[2kitties]

lol. cat, you don't even want to know. I got in so much trouble!!!!! It was much much much fun!

But be careful. I don't think we're allowed to say "penis" on pet talk.

[Fuzzy317]

I vote NO on both items.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by mugsy
An illegal alien is someone who comes to the country without permission. I don't have a problem with people who come here with a green card and live law abiding lives. I have a good friend who lives here on a green card and has since 1979 when he came here from England to play soccer at Bowling Green University. He does not want to give up his English citizenship, so therefore he just stays with his green card. I don't have a problem with people being here in visas as long as they don't overstay their visit. I admire anyone who comes here for a better life and takes the necessary steps to become a citizen so they can reap the benefit of being an American. I DO have a problem with people who come across the border or have a temporary visa and then just stay and reap the benefits of being an American, when they AREN'T one, and they have no INTENTION of becoming one.

Good post, I agree completely.