Speaking English in America?

[dukedogsmom]

I would like to know opinions on this. I'm not trying to single any one specific group out here. However, I've noticed a large amount of people that speak Spanish here in Florida. I realise that we have many different nationalities here and I greatly applaud those that make attempts to speak English. However, there are those that want we English speaking people to cater to them, or that's my view on it. At work, some people get downright rude when they find out that we don't have anyone that speaks Spanish. And, we can only transfer to the language line if it's an emergency. And, if I moved to another country(would love it to be Italy) I certainly wouldn't expect the majority to speak English just because I had moved there. What really gripes me is when the parents get their English speaking children to call in for them. I would love to learn Spanish as it would come in handy. Maybe someone can give me a different view on this?

[Tonya]

My spanish is horrible. It is so bad that I generally tell a person that I don't speak or understand Spanish. It saves me the headache of getting myself in to deep.

Well, last year, I went to a house to fix their phone jacks. They were Spanish speaking. I told the guy that I didn't speak Spanish and went on to fix the jacks. He said to his friend while smiling to my face (in Spanish) "They send this stupid white b!t@h to fix my phone that can't even speak Spanish." They carried on saying all kinds of degrading things about me in Spanish. I was fuming so bad. I so wanted to tell him that he needs to learn better English; I don't need to learn better Spanish. I kept my mouth shut, but boy was it hard!

I think that it should be a requirement to know our language before you come here. I have met plenty of people that wanted to come to the US so bad, so they studied the American language and culture. That is how it should be. You should want to know about the place you are coming to. I understand that there are special circumstances that make that impossible, but I think for the most part, everyone is capable of learning English.

[tatsxxx11]

My mother and father emmigrated to the U.S. from Norway and Sweden, respectively. My husband moved with his family here from Japan when he was 6 years old. My parents immersed themselves in the culture and language and without any formal instruction, manged to obtain jobs and succeed and later raise a family and maintain both their cultural heritage and their language while at the same time, learn what it meant to be an American, including learning the language. My husband spent Saturday mornings being tutored for 2 hrs. in Japanese and 2 hrs. in English. He was put straight into 1st grade in the public school system two months after coming to the U.S. I understand how difficult it must be to come to a foreign country and not know the language. But I firmly believe that anyone who wishes to reap the rewards of living in a country such as this, should make every attempt to learn the language. It's simply impractical, if not impossbile, for the beauracracy to meet the needs of so many different cultural groups. And unfortunately, I have traveled with Americans to foregin countries who DO expect them to understand English and make no attempt at all to converse in that country's language. Just as bad!

[GoldenRetrLuver]

There are lots of people in Southern CA who are spanish speaking. My grandma came down here from Quebec, where she learned to speak English. Her first language is French. My mom can speak *some* French, and I'm learning. :)

I think if you're living here, you should learn how to speak English. Of course they could still speak their native language, but they should learn English as well. IMO :)

[2kitties]

When I visited France my French was so horrible most of the French people tried to speak english with me. But, if we weren't in a hurry, I sometimes asked them to please speak French with me so I could improve. Many times, it turned into interesting and educational conversations for me. And even after only a week, my french was greatly improved.

Too bad I haven't used it in years and now it's worse than ever.

[Kfamr]

I agree. If they chose to come to a English speaking country, they should learn to speak it.

[2kitties]

The thing is, English is not the official language of the United States. We don't have one.

[Kfamr]

But that's what the majority of America speaks. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need English 1,2,3, & 4 to graduate in most highschools.

[2kitties]

but the point is, if it isn't legally the "official national language," then constitutionally, they can't require it and public schools have to provide ESL or alternative educaiton.

[G.P.girl]

i don't thionk it's right for any forieger to expect thier host country to speak thier language when they are visiting or living in a country . when i lived in hungary i didn't expect the hungarians to learn english and i didn't try to talk to them in english, i learned hungarian. bu ti think americans do that the most, where they don't even try to learn the language and jsut expect everybody else to accomedate (sp?) to them and learn thier language. in my experience anyways.

[tatsxxx11]

As it's not the "offical" language, then why would we be compelled to provide ESL programs to school age emmigrants? Apparently our speaking English in the public school system is arbitrary? Official or not, there is a legal precept called "past practice." It carries great weight in ajudicating such cases. I would be interested to learn what other countries have on the "books," their native tongues as the "offical" language?? Correct me if I'm wrong Canadian PT'ers, but in Montreal, it has been madated that all shop signs be written in French, or at least, with French being the first and most prominent lettering in efforts to preserve their cultural heritage. Hopefully the efforts to pass a constitutional amendment to make English the "official" language of the U.S. will succeed. I detest the idea of ammending the constitution further, but if that be the argument, so be it. Regardless, whether ESL is taught in schools or not, it does not solve the problem of adults, parents of those children, residing in this country who are illiterate in English and choose not to make any effort to learn the language that the vast majority of it's citizens speak. It is a practical impossibility to accomodate the dozens if not hundreds of languages represented by the many immigrant groups that reside in the U.S. re: the banking system, shcool system, govt. offices, etc. My parents did it, my husband and his family did it without any governmentally subsidized program. I am all for some sort of transisitional accomodation to assist children entering the school system. But after speaking with academician friends and teachers who have been frustrated by the present system, I convinced that as it's exists, the ESL program only serves to enable those attempting to assimilate into a linguistacly homogenous society.

[babolaypo65]

I guess my experience is a little different. New Mexico is a bilingual state. It's in our constitution. And, in my opinion, it makes our state richer.

And yes, the other posters are correct the U.S. has no official language.

When I get frustrated that someone doesn't speak English in the U.S. I remember my own relatives arriving at Ellis Island, and wonder how long it took them to learn English, while working all day, raising a family, and trying to survive. Living within communities they could afford, which were often inhabited by others who knew only their language. It's a wonder they ever learned English. Especially considering they could neither read nor write. Second languages are hard to learn, as evidenced by the fact that many of us don't have one.

[Cincy'sMom]

I think that if you are living in a country that the majority of people do not speak your language, it is you that shoud attempt to learn the language, not have expect others to cater to you.

A woman I work with is married to a man from Chili. She is a blond hair, blue-eyed, farm girl who grew up in Ohio, went to Chili as a missionary, where they met, and they have lived in Ohio for 4 years now. They speak Spanish in their home, and their son, who is now 3, speaks primarily Spanish. I think it is great that they have taught their child spanish, however, he is living in Ohio and an American...he should also speak English!! recently, her son ate a few TUMS and her husband called, wanting her to call the doc and make sure he wouldbe okay. I asked why he didn't just call himself,a nd she said "cause he wouldn't understand what they said" I'm sorry, her husband has been here 4 years now, he should have at least a basic understanding of the language by now...JMO.

[KYS]

Copying Sandra's words, My grandparents and same with my husbands grandparents
also came to this country and immersed themselves in the culture and language, manged to obtain jobs and succeed and later raise a family and maintain both their cultural heritage and their language while at the same time, learn what it meant to be an American, including learning the language.

If I was to go live in a non-english speaking country
I would learn or try to learn the language.
I also think it's a shame it is not
manditory for our children not to learn
spanish as a secondary language starting in grammer school.
JMHO


As for the children.
My sister is a bilingual teacher for the public
Unified school system for grammer school.
Kids at that age are like sponges and learn very fast.
She does not support the bilingual program!
(when she was in college she was very pro, but
once she started teaching, she saw that
it kept the spanish speaking students behind.
As a bilingual teacher, with the permission
from their parents, she teaches the non-
english speaking children in English
with some spanish.
By the time they are out of her
class, they understand and can do the work
in English. Other bilingual teachers, only
teach their kids in Spanish with very little or no english.
These children go through semester, through
semester having trouble with English, and
remain behind, the other English speaking
students. Who is this program hurting?
THe children.
My sister has never come across a parent that
did not want their child not to learn in English.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by KYS

I also think it's a shame it is not
manditory for our children not to learn
spanish as a secondary language in grammer school.
JMHO



At my highschool it is manditory to have a year of a foreign language to graduate. It's either a year or two years, and alot of the kids go for taking Spanish, or even 2 different languages.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Kfamr
At my highschool it is manditory to have a year of a foreign language to graduate. It's either a year or two years, and alot of the kids go for taking Spanish, or even 2 different languages.

Same here. We need 2 years of a foreign language to graduate. The choices are Italian, Spanish, German, French, and I think one more.

[dukedogsmom]

KayAnn, do you take Spanish? Maybe I can learn some from you :)

[babolaypo65]

Originally posted by Kfamr
At my highschool it is manditory to have a year of a foreign language to graduate. It's either a year or two years, and alot of the kids go for taking Spanish, or even 2 different languages.

Most high schools have a foreign language requirement, which is good, though most of us would admit we retained, or rather acquired very little of the second language. It's good for a generally understanding of how languages work, but I agree with KYS if it's gonna stick it's best introduced earlier, elementary, or younger. And then used.

[Kfamr]

I know *SOME* spanish.. Just the basics like, " how are you?", "what's your name?", " where are you from?", and I also know how to answer the questions. I know how to say a few phrases I wont mention. :o

I took Spanish1 my freshman year, And I *was* in Spanish2 but I didn't want to be, so I got switched out of it.

[micki76]

I work in an office for a company that remodels swimming pools. All of our workers are Mexican and most can speak at least enough english to get by. Not all of them can though. Like said, it would be hard to learn the language when you’re surrounded by your fellow countrymen and, when not around english speaking Americans, everyone still speaks spanish. On the other hand, my friend Maricella came to America as a child. Her grandmother spoke a little english and wanted to be sure that she learned english. She only allowed her to watch english programs during the day when they were at home alone together. Maricella said this was the best help that she received in her quest to learn english.

I personally think that if you live here, you should speak english which is the primary language spoken. Although, I do understand how difficult it must be to learn, especially as an adult. I’m trying to learn spanish and it’s been extremely difficult, but when I was 12 and learning french, that was much easier. Not that I remember any of it. :rolleyes:

Also realize that many who you think can’t speak english, can. They usually feel to self conscious to attempt to speak it, especially the men. It’s very degrading for many Mexican men to seem inferior or “stupid”, or not macho. This may be mainly a Mexican thing.

[tatsxxx11]

Great points, Karen and Micki! And you're right Micki, doing our best to make our immgarnt citizens feel welcome, to be kind and caring and helpful in assisting their transistion, could make all the difference in the world. So many may feel insecure, frightened, threatened, lonely and understandably, choose to retreat to the comfort of that which they know, that is familiar and and those who accept them rather than appear foolish or ignorant:(

[gini]

Oh my, what a potentially controversial subject. Up front let me tell you that I believe everyone who comes to this country should learn to speak English.

My paternal side of the family is German. They came to the U.S. in the 1850's. I would imagine it was very difficult for them. But because they came here to prosper and raise their children, English was learned quickly and German was dropped. My Grandfather could not speak a word of German - and his English was excellent.

That said, I feel it will take several generations or maybe even only one as the youngsters learn English and continue in English as they grow older and raise their own families. They will keep their native tongue and may speak to their elders in that tongue, but their primary language will be English.

Many of my neighbors are Korean and every single one of their children speak excellent English - often times they will have to translate for their parents.

The Hispanics come from many countries and each one is just a little bit different. My experience is that El Salvadorians immediately want to learn and speak English.

They want to earn a living here, bank, shop, etc. It will be to their own interest for them to learn English - so that they are not taken advantage of.

A high school teacher that I know told me that in his school alone there were over 59 different languages spoken. He said that it was a nightmare teaching.

My niece taught fifth graders. She taught in both Spanish and English. In other words, at that time, she had to say everything twice. That theory did not work........and now they are immersing the kids in English right away.

Young children are sponges - and they pick up the language very rapidly - and there is peer pressure as well.

I do have trouble with immigrants "demanding" someone be available to speak to them in their native tongue. Imagine if all 59 of the languages represented at the high school did the same.

We have our ballots in English, Spanish and Korean. Are there only three? Hmmm, what do the rest of the people do?

I also have trouble with all of the signage being in Spanish or Korean. Why? There was a serious fire at a restaurant a while back. The firemen did not read the native language and because the addresses are not clearly marked.....could not find the right address.....by the time they saw the smoke the restaurant was well engulfed in flames.

My point being only, that there are safety matters to be concerned about as well.

Well, that is my two centavos!

[Twisterdog]

I think if you move to a country, you ought to learn its primary language ... preferably before you arrive, or as soon thereafter as possible. I think this is a huge no-brainer.

Would any of us move to Germany, Mexico, Italy, etc. without a clue of how to ask where the restrooms are or how to count money? And, more importantly, would we move there and make no attempt whatsoever to learn the language, even after years and years? I highly doubt it! I frankly don't know anyone who even vacations in a foreign country for a week that doesn't make some attempt to learn at least a few pertinent phrases of the language before going there.

My great grandparents were all immigrants, arriving in the USA from Germany, Scotland and England. My German relatives learned English, and did as well for themselves here as my Englsh relatives. They were hard-working people, who were ambitious and did what had to be done.

Case in point: my neighbors down the street. The mom and dad moved here from Mexico fifteen years ago. The dad spoke a few words of English, the mom spoke none. They now have been here for fifteen years, and have five children - ages fourteen, twelve, nine, seven and five - all of whom were born here in Wyoming. All five children are in ESL classes at school, arriving in kindegarten not speaking a single word of English. Neither parent has learned much English, and they speak only Spanish at home. I find this pathetic - those poor kids struggle. And why?!? Why would you not want to learn the principal language of the country you have chose to live in? No one forces these people to come here, they come here by choice. They should also choose to learn our language, at least for their children's sake.

[Soledad]

Personally, I think it's pretty shameful that most Americans can only speak one language (and many can't even manage that one language very well). I think it's even more shameful that around 20-25% of us actually have passports, meaning many of us haven't had to experience life beyond our borders. And requiring a couple of years of a foreign language in high school is hardly doing the trick.

Yes, of course, people coming to the U.S. have it in their best interests to learn English. But that's easier said than done. The difficulties can be overwhelming, especially when you consider than many immigrants work gruelling jobs with long hours and have large families to support. This makes for little time for extracurricular activities. We must also take into account the level of education people have when coming here. My grandfather has a third grade education and is not fluent in English despite living in the States for 25 years. But then, he was pretty busy picking tomatoes and cherries for Americans and supporting his eight kids, making his opportunities for learning English pretty damn slim.

Oh, and Cincy's Mom, a three year old speaking only Spanish in Ohio who has two English speaking parents is NOT a problem. That kid is going to pick up English no matter what. I mainly spoke Spanish until I was five, and I started and completed kindergarten with no problems. The language abilities of children are truly amazing.

[gini]

Very well said PCB - and congratulations to you and your parents.

The one key in learning a language whether from grade one or later in high school - is that you need SOMEONE TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE TO........on a regular basis.

Obviously speaking Spanish in many states is a huge asset.......but if for example, (my own) I took French. I live in California - at the time - not too many people around to help me keep up my newly learned language skills. So over the years I recall only a smattering of words and phrases here and there.

I did in later years take Italian lessons which became invaluable when I went to Italy. However, again, most has been lost as I have no one to converse with on regular basis

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Soledad
[B]Personally, I think it's pretty shameful that most Americans can only speak one language (and many can't even manage that one language very well).

I agree, it is shameful. Something is definately wrong with our school system when thousands upon thousands of functionally illiterate teenagers walk away with high school diplomas every year. Teach two languages fluently? Our school system isn't even requiring competency in one language!




I think it's even more shameful that around 20-25% of us actually have passports, meaning many of us haven't had to experience life beyond our borders.

Perhaps only 25% of us can afford to travel abroad? I would say that foreign travel, and gaining life experiences beyond our borders, is unfortunately something reserved for those with a bit of disposable income to spare. I would venture to say that the other 75% are working class people, trying to make ends meet, put food on the table, pay for the kids' braces, etc. Perhaps vacation for them is a long weekend camping or visiting grandparents. I don't believe that the sole reason only 25% of Americans hold passports is that 75% of us are "Ugly American" hicks ... perhaps 75% of us are just not wealthy enough to tour Europe.

[gini]

I agree Twisterdog. The other side of that equation is that some people have absolutely no interest in traveling - even outside of their state. I have no idea what percentage that might be.

Personally I have always felt that traveling broadened my mind - my spirit - especially as an American. It was important enough to me that I made sacrifices in other areas of my life to be able to travel. But as you mentioned, it isn't that easy for thouands of families trying to raise a family.

We are such a young country - and there is so much more to be learned in countries that have thousands of years of history.

I just saw an excellent play - TRANSLATIONS. It is about the English going into Ireland - remapping their country and RENAMING their cities and counties.

[trayi52]

Well, I only know one language, English. I don't have a passport, and have never traveled to any other country. I would love to do all these things, but when you can't afford to travel abroad, then that's a huge problem.

My dad's parents and grandmother came here in the early 1900's from Germany, and I don't know whether they already knew English or not, I wish I had asked my dad when he was alive, but that just never entered my mind until now.

I know that my dad did say they spoke German to each other and slowly, as they started using English fluently, they stopped altogether speaking German. Daddy knew very little German. He taught Ann and me some of words, but I have forgotten those too.

I agree with all of you, and Poppy 100%.

It would be nice to travel, but oh well.:)

Tray

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Something is definately wrong with our school system when thousands upon thousands of functionally illiterate teenagers walk away with high school diplomas every year. Teach two languages fluently? Our school system isn't even requiring competency in one language!

Thank God Somebody Brought This Up!! Amen to that Twisterdog!
First of all, 2 years of spanish at your local high school- begun at the high school level- is nowhere near enough to learn a language. I had 5 years of French and, today I'm at ground zero again (dur to nonuse). Had I begun learning in first grade, I feel certain I'd be fluent.

Our school systems fail kids on a regular basis. I'm not dissing the schools or the teachers. In fact, I think often they are doing the best they can. But parents and teachers do not exactly make good teams these days. Kids enter school with no experience with the alphabet or numbers. My parents made darn sure I could read basic books, write my full name and certain other words and perform basic flash card math- all at the age of 5 when I entered school, so I wouldn't fall behind the other kids. That head start served me well. It costs nothing for a parent and child to read together or learn to count. Parental responsibility is not an education of priviledge, it is basic.

We graduate virtual illiterates all the time in this country. There are plenty of high school graduates who can't diagram a simple english sentence. If you doubt that, just read through some of the posts on Pet Talk. I don't mean to hurt feelings, and I'm not talking about typos. But there are some posters in these forums who do not have a grasp on their native language at all. Embarrasingly, there are plenty of posters here who were born and live in countries all over the world who have a MUCH BETTER command of english than some of our own citizens.

[babolaypo65]

We have an interesting dichotomy in this thread. We all agree that folks who live here should learn English. We all say it's great when kids are bilingual, yet most who posted their family's history said they lost the heritage language. If your family moved here and never spoke it's heritage language to the next generation, its a chance for another generation to be bilingual that is lost.
Kids who are raised in bilingual homes are very fortunate. Statistics show they learn to read more quickly, and excell in English in school.
Our government is very motivated for folks to learn English, I only wish they were equally motivated to maintain heritage languages. Pop and Soledad are excellent examples of heritage language maintenance and they are richer for it.

I have a friend whose parents were monolingual Spanish speakers. When he was born doctors and educators told his parents they should only speak English to him. Because they did not know English, his parents were instructed to NOT speak to him, but to let the TV be his model. Shameful. To tell parents NOT to speak to their child.

Heritage language maintenance programs are gaining momentum, in my state at least, and I hope it's a growing trend.

[Soledad]

Traveling abroad is actually not all that difficult or expensive. With the amount of crap that most Americans spend on consumer goods, there is no excuse for the lack of travel. It is simply a matter of priorities. In America, traveling abroad is a sort of "wouldn't that be nice" experience whereas in other countries it's a rite of passage, something a young adult MUST do in order to get a better sense of themselves, the world and how they fit into the grand scheme of things.

How many of us drop 30 bucks at PetSmart on non-essential items? How many of us buy unnecessary items for our entertainment? No, the issue is not money. It's where our priorities lie. And to many Americans, they see no reason why they should ever leave. And that's the root of many a problem.

While living in New Zealand, I met young people who faced greater financial difficulties than most Americans. Yet, somehow, they managed to save the money to go out and see the world.

People will always make excuses, but where there's a will, there's a way still applies. We just don't have the will.

[2kitties]

A person can get to Europe, backpack and stay in youth hostiles for so very little money.

[Soledad]

Yup. I'm sure people spend more money eating out and going to the movies in a year than what it would require to get you to backpack through Europe.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Soledad
Oh, and Cincy's Mom, a three year old speaking only Spanish in Ohio who has two English speaking parents is NOT a problem. That kid is going to pick up English no matter what. I mainly spoke Spanish until I was five, and I started and completed kindergarten with no problems. The language abilities of children are truly amazing.

I don't think it is a problem for the child. I just think that since my co-worker is the only member of her side of the family that speaks Spanish, they should do more to teach their child to be bi-lingual. I understand they want to teach him his father's culture and that is great, but it should go both ways, and he should learn his mother's as well.

And I have to admit I judge this particular person harshly for things that do not belong in this thread. Just because I don't agree with her choices views and opinions doesn't mean they are wrong.

[trayi52]

Some of us live on fixed incomes, and cannot even think about going to a movie or dropping 30 bucks at Petco.That would indeed be a luxury, I make toys for Grover, which everything is a toy to her anyway, even me. That 30 bucks goes for life’s necessities.

My husband got sick about seven years ago due to heart and lung problems. It is all we can do to just pay for the necessities of life. So traveling to another country would be a luxury we could not even think of doing, because of health problems and a fixed income of Social Security.

Social Security just does not pay enough for a couple to take trips abroad of any kind. Think you could take a trip on 1200 dollars a month. Some even draw less and have to decide whether to pay for their electric bill or their medication. You decide, what to leave off. It is very hard on people living on fixed incomes. Eating out? Going to movies? No such thing here. Last time I went to a movie was a treat from my daughter. I wish it were as easy as you think it is. Besides, it is not easy when you reach a certain age, to go backpacking if you have health problems that do not allow that kind of activity.

Of course, young people should think of traveling, that is great! They are able to think about putting traveling into their plans for the future.

I am sure there are people that spend money on items, that could be left out, and saved for these trips abroad, but you have to look at the age and the actual income of these people. Lots of other circumstances keep them from that luxury.

Everything is not as easy as you think it is, it is hard on some of us from the older generation. We are not rich; we live on a fixed income. It would be nice if we had youth and income on our side, but we do not have that luxury. Simple as that.

I wish my dad had kept his ability to speak German, but he did not. He did teach us some of what he remembered, but as he got older, he could not even remember that. Age is a killer to our memories and a hazard to our health.

You are right, they should teach a second language in school, and start at a very early age. That is a great idea, sounds wonderful. :)

Tray

[amoore]

Tray, Dad said his parents could not speak any English when they came here. Dad said he didn't know a word of English when he entered the first grade in the state of Ohio.

[trayi52]

Ann,
You know I cannot remember that! So he had to learn to speak English from the first grade up, and so did his parents. :confused:

Like I said, growing old is hazardous to your health.:)

[micki76]

Originally posted by Soledad
Traveling abroad is actually not all that difficult or expensive. With the amount of crap that most Americans spend on consumer goods, there is no excuse for the lack of travel. It is simply a matter of priorities. In America, traveling abroad is a sort of "wouldn't that be nice" experience whereas in other countries it's a rite of passage, something a young adult MUST do in order to get a better sense of themselves, the world and how they fit into the grand scheme of things.

How many of us drop 30 bucks at PetSmart on non-essential items? How many of us buy unnecessary items for our entertainment? No, the issue is not money. It's where our priorities lie. And to many Americans, they see no reason why they should ever leave. And that's the root of many a problem.

While living in New Zealand, I met young people who faced greater financial difficulties than most Americans. Yet, somehow, they managed to save the money to go out and see the world.

People will always make excuses, but where there's a will, there's a way still applies. We just don't have the will.

Oh I have the will, I just would personally go and sun myself on the beach in Mexico than back pack through Europe. Nothing wrong with that. :)

[Soledad]

Mexico, Europe....doesn't matter, as long as it's out of the country!!! :)

Trayi52, I know there are plenty of people who actually CAN'T but they are a lot who can and just don't. They put more value in shopping than saving their money for travel. Oh well. Whatever.

But don't get me wrong, Trayi52, I have been on public assistance. I'm not a spoiled person, but there is such a thing as budgeting and planning ahead if you really, really want it.

[gini]

Soledad, your point of view is interesting to me because for a few years I was exposed to many young girls (right out of high school) that took out a "student travel loan" that New Zealand banks offered to young people.

When they came to the United States they took positions as nanny's - stayed for six months in one place, saw as much as they could and then moved on to another city. The whole time they did not make a great deal of money here, but they also had little expenses. For many, the ultimate goal was to get to England and then finally return home to New Zealand.

I think we also have a generational gap here. What today, might seem easy to save for - travel in particular - was not as easy for people say in the 1930's - 40's - 50's. Travel was very expensive. If you were raising a family it was out of the question.
And think back to then - there were not all of the "toys" that we now have and seem to want. Parents just got by.

How many of this generation also made sure their kids had a good education right through college and THEN made their travel plans in their retirement? And they did not live lavish lives.

This is all way off the subject of the ability to learn English or a second language.

I think in the next generation you will see many young adults who can speak fluent Korean, or Spanish or another native tongue and also English. But as the generations pass on, how many will keep their mother tongue?

[Soledad]

I still don't buy it, Gini. Traveling has been something people all over the world have been able to do, and Americans, with the highest standards of living in the world, can somehow not make it out of their country? Nope. Sorry, not buying it. :)

I know that the British, Australians and New Zealanders have a tradition of traveling. It's something that is just done. It's a part of growing up to them. But not in America. In America, we have this idea that while it would be "nice" it doesn't really matter, because, well, we're AMERICA.

[gini]

I have no idea of the statistics, but probably a check with all of the airlines traveling to various countries and the cruise ships doing the same - would give us an idea of the increase in travel over say the last what? 50 years.

But you are right - there are those who do just not care to travel, have no interest in a foreign country or their language. But it is their choice and ultimately their loss.

[amoore]

I have friends from all over the world that I love talking to in the chat rooms. I really love hearing about their countries and their cultures. I plan to travel someday. I would love it! I want to take my sister with me.

Tray, Dad said his parents were speaking English, too. They picked it up after they lived here awhile. But they spoke mostly in German at home with family. I'm sorry I left that out.

[trayi52]

Oh great, I am going to travel after all!!!! Going with the sister.

Tray:D

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Soledad
Traveling abroad is actually not all that difficult or expensive. With the amount of crap that most Americans spend on consumer goods, there is no excuse for the lack of travel. It is simply a matter of priorities. In America, traveling abroad is a sort of "wouldn't that be nice" experience whereas in other countries it's a rite of passage, something a young adult MUST do in order to get a better sense of themselves, the world and how they fit into the grand scheme of things.

How many of us drop 30 bucks at PetSmart on non-essential items? How many of us buy unnecessary items for our entertainment? No, the issue is not money. It's where our priorities lie. And to many Americans, they see no reason why they should ever leave. And that's the root of many a problem.

While living in New Zealand, I met young people who faced greater financial difficulties than most Americans. Yet, somehow, they managed to save the money to go out and see the world.

People will always make excuses, but where there's a will, there's a way still applies. We just don't have the will.


You are speaking of the uppper-middle and upper classes, and I would agree with your assessment of that. You are also, I infer, speaking of single people or married couples without kids, for the most part. And, I would also agree with your assessment there. If you are a young, dual-career, couple with no kids you can absolutely afford to travel all over the world. However, if you are a single mother working for $6.00 per hour, raising two or three kids, there is NO WAY you are going to travel to Europe for your summer vacation. No way. You say you are "not buying it" that many, many people live from hand to mouth in this country. Come on. You know better than that. You have spoken many times about your own less-than-luxurious roots, and of the hardships of your parents and grandparents. There are millions of people in this country who live at or below the poverty level, or are spending every dime they have for the bills, school clothes and medical care. We all know this.

Travel abroad is a wonderful experience, no arguments from me there. However, I do not think it is fair to label everyone who doesn't hold a passport as basically shallow, egocentric flakes who want to spend all their money shopping for frivolous items. Not true, and not fair. Many people have valid reasons for not making foreign travel a top priority. It doesn't automatically make them lesser people.

I've traveled out of the USA several times. When the circumstances in my life are different than they are now, I will probably do it much more. However, if I had never left this country, I would not suddenly be a backwards, closed-minded person who knew nothing of the world beyond my front door. Actual travel is great, but it is not the ONLY way to learn and experience and grow.

[amoore]

True, some of us don't have money for traveling.:( My sister Tray has a husband that has been sickly since he had open heart surgery. Tray also has a yard full of stray dogs that she feeds and takes to vets. She even takes in kids that people neglect. She feeds them and sends them to school without being reimbursed by the parents. She does this with the little money she has. Yes, she could choose to travel.

Other reasons that people don't get to travel are jobs and responsibilities.

I'm sorry to get off the subject. I think it is good to learn different languages. I have been trying to learn Spanish. I even bought a book and cassette to teach myself. Some of my friends here speak Spanish.

[Soledad]

Good God. :rolleyes:

Twisterdog, I am NOT in any way saying those on welfare, living paycheck-to-paycheck, or responsible for many young ones or disabled loved ones are backwards hicks for not leaving the country.

NOT. AT. ALL.

It annoys me that someone would even think that was my intention. I didn't realize I had to have disclaimers on everything I've said.

What I said before, and what I will say again, is that there are MANY, MANY, MANY Americans who can do this, but don't. Of course there are more ways to learn about the world, but traveling, getting out there and "doing it" are the most direct ways. You can't just talk about other countries or read about them to truly know them. It requires more. Many people here are complacent to just stay here in America. They have the money and resources to do it, but they don't. They put their money elsewhere.

I think we could really stand to learn from other countries like New Zealand, Australia, Britain by vigorously encouraging our young people to get out there while they're relatively unburdened and free.

That was my only point. I was not singling out individual members of PetTalk for their lack of travel. :rolleyes:

[Logan]

There is so much of America that I have yet to see, that I don't long for a trip anywhere out of the country until I can take advantage of what is here.

[trayi52]

You know where I have always wanted to go? Colorada, I really don't know why, maybe it was a movie I saw a very long time ago. I am hoping to someday get to see it. Not just the cities, but the country part of it, the trees, the mountains, and the wildlife. That is my dream.

Tray:)

[amoore]

Tray, I wish I had taken you when I went there . It is beautiful! Those mountains are beautiful. I went up into the mountains and there was snow in June up there. It was hot in Denver, daylilies were blooming.

Denver must have different nationalities from everywhere. It was a very nice place. My brother-in-law is Greek. He took us to a Greek restraunt for Mother's Day. When he ordered our food he spoke Greek. :) I love that lanquage.

I'm sorry I keep getting off the subject! Here I go again.:rolleyes:

[2kitties]

I can never get enough of Colorado. In fact, it's on my list of places to settle when we retire someday. We go skiing in Colorado every March. Every year, we swear we're going to go somewhere else, but we always end up back in Colorado because it's amazing on so many levels. This year I'm extra excited because my dad is coming back with us. He's convinced that by next year he'll be too old to make it down the black diamonds. (No way, he's as chipper as a 20 year old.) So, we're taking him out for a week this year.
In terms of city living, Denver is nice, but I'd choose Colorado Springs in a minute. Pikes Peak scenery and small town city feel- you can't beat it.

[trayi52]

That really sounds so beautiful, make me want to get there so bad, like I said that is my dream. I have been to the Smokey Mountains, but Colorada is where I really want to go.

Maybe one of these days, I will get there. Well after our lives are straightened out anyway. Right now, my husband being ill all the time, just keeps me from going anywhere, I am sort of housebound, and he is afraid to go too far from his doctor. He also suffers from panic/anexiety attacks as well as depression, to go along with the heart and lung problems too.

But as I said someday I am going to Colorada, and see the mountains, and all the countryside. I am and I will.

Tray :)

[Soledad]

I reallllllyyyyy want to go to Alaska. It looks so pristine.

[Kfamr]

I want to MOVE to Alaska!

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Hopefully.............some day! Hawaii too. I want to see Hawaii!

Hawaii is BEAUTIFUL. If you ever get the chance to go, go! :p

My family and I are planning to go on an Alaskan cruise either this year or next. :)

[2kitties]

Chris' mom took an Alaskan cruise with her sisters for her 55th birthday and said it was the most amazing place on earth. The pics are just incredible.

[Cataholic]

I want to EAT baked ALASKA!:D

[2kitties]

Chris and I went to hawaii this past summer. We stayed just on Kauai, the garden island. It was the most beatuiful scenery I've ever seen. We stayed at Bali Hai, where they filmed South Pacific. Amazing.

[trayi52]

Oh, Alaska sounds like a great place to visit, I want to go there after Colorado. I have heard lots of stories about Alaska too. I had some friends that went on the Alaskan Cruise, they had pictures, it really looked grand.

I think I am dreaming now. LOL.:D

Tray:)

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Soledad
I didn't realize I had to have disclaimers on everything I've said.

No, not necesarily disclaimers ... but you may want to watch out for pat overgeneralizations that instantly put people on the defensive. Or not, whatever you choose. Just MHO. For example, some things you said in this thread:


Traveling abroad is actually not all that difficult or expensive.

With the amount of crap that most Americans spend on consumer goods, there is no excuse for the lack of travel. It is simply a matter of priorities.

How many of us drop 30 bucks at PetSmart on non-essential items? How many of us buy unnecessary items for our entertainment? No, the issue is not money. It's where our priorities lie. And to many Americans, they see no reason why they should ever leave. And that's the root of many a problem.

People will always make excuses, but where there's a will, there's a way still applies. We just don't have the will.

I'm sure people spend more money eating out and going to the movies in a year than what it would require to get you to backpack through Europe.

They put more value in shopping than saving their money for travel. Oh well. Whatever.

I'm not a spoiled person, but there is such a thing as budgeting and planning ahead if you really, really want it.

I still don't buy it, Gini. Traveling has been something people all over the world have been able to do, and Americans, with the highest standards of living in the world, can somehow not make it out of their country? Nope. Sorry, not buying it.

In America, we have this idea that while it would be "nice" it doesn't really matter, because, well, we're AMERICA.





That was my only point. I was not singling out individual members of PetTalk for their lack of travel. :rolleyes:

I never said you were. No one else did either.

[Soledad]

If people are going to get defensive over what I've said, perhaps there is a reason they're feeling so guilty? I don't know...

I know that I did qualify my statements with "most Americans" and "many of us." I don't recall saying "all Americans can travel and they're just lying to themselves if they think otherwise."

:rolleyes:

But, whatever, moving on...

We have a seriously beautiful country and I hope to be able to explore every bit of it as possible. But I will still always want to see how people outside of it live and think. That's truly thrilling to me.

[KYS]

Ok! I wasn't going to get involved with this, because
it is off track of the original thread.

But....

America is HUGE, and their is so much to see.....


American is so vast and and humungus compared to
many other countries. I have only traveled twice
over seas. I HATE to fly, and I also get sea sick.
I prefer to do my traveling by ground, except for
one of my favorite vacation spots, beautiful HI
because it is only a 4.75 hour flight from CA.

I have visited Canada and Mexico a few times, because
I can get their by ground transportation.
I have not even traveled thought out my country yet,
which when I retire, I would love to do.


My friend whom lives in England, travels easly to
other European countries, because most everything is a drive
away once she crosses the channel.
When she visited the states, she went to
one state only, Texas. She could not believe how big that one state is compared to traveling in Europe.
One of our states is as bit as many countries.

Yes it is very nice to see, and experience other countries,
but at the same time, it is also nice to see and experience your
own. When I retire, I would love to just travel
and see my own beautiful country.

One of my must do's on my lists is to see beautiful Alaska.



JMHO

[2kitties]

I def. think there is so much to see in America. Seeing you own country is wonderful. I hope to be able to say I've been to all 50 by the time my traveling days are over.
But experiencing other countries is completely different. America, with all it's wonders, is just too young to provide the history of other countries. Seeing Europe is like being right inside the history books. IF a person can, then it is a truly humbling experience to stand in front of the Louvre and know you're going to come face to face with Mona Lisa herself.

One of the main reasons I haven't had children yet is because I'm not yet financially prepared to be sure I can show them these things as a part of their education. I was in college before I traveled abroad. I read about the ruins and the art and the history in high school, but it wasn't real until I saw it. I hope and pray my future will allow me to share those things with my children. For that reason, I've made the personal choice to be financially secure before having kids. I want them to have the options of studying abroad and becoming fluent in any language they choose. I pray to God I never have to close a door for them.

Okay, now I'm way off track. I wax on and on when I start talking about what I want for my kids.

In 2000, I was fortunate enough to climb the Sydney Harbour bridge in Australia and it was one of the most incredible experiences I can imagine. My dream trip at this point is Thailand. I've seen photos and have friends who visited. They all say it is an amazing place.

[Logan]

Colorado is beautiful. I only had one chance to visit there, went to Vail, and loved the Rocky Mountains!!! I also want to go to Alaska, one day. (Fingers crossed)

[popcornbird]

Seeing our own country is definitely wonderful, but seeing other countries is a totally different experience. I know, because I've done both. Other countries are *different* in pretty much everything. Its very interesting to get out and see them, and get to know how life is in other parts of the world. America is a beautiful country, and I would definitely LOVE to see more of it, but at the same time, I still like to travel overseas, and see other countries too. I do get sick from flying, but if I take my medicine before going, I sleep in the plane, and the experience in another land is, in my opinion, worth the few.......or many hours of travel. Its true about seeing *history* in places like Europe. I remember reading so much about Yorkshire, the Vikings, all of that stuff in history, for years after years in school. I never took much interest in it, until I saw it in real life. When we last went to England, my uncle took us to see York. Its amazing, because it feels like you went many centuries back in time. The city is still old and *ancient*, the buildings 800-900 years old. I thought it was cool to get to see that in real life. Its not something I could see here at home.

So, personally, I love to travel in my own country and see different places here, but along with that, I still like to travel to OTHER countries, because they are just so different and its a totally different experience going abroad.

[amoore]

Popcorn, I love stuff like you just described. I would love to see all that. England is a place I have longed to visit. I have also, wanted to see the beautiful gardens there.

[carole]

I think if you shift to another country you are duty bound to learn the language, correct me if I am wrong here, but the French in particular get annoyed if you don't at least try to speak their language.

What really bothers me here, is we have some foreign doctors, who speak such poor english, We are unable to understand them, this happened to my mother when in hospital a few yrs ago, I was appalled , something like that is important to understand what he was telling us, to beable to practice medicene in NZ their is tough criteria, but apparently the language doesn't count for much.

An example, the other day two Indian men were selling the American express cards, I was interested, then this guy starts talking and I can not understand hardly a word he is saying , to top it off two young Asian men were beside me, laughing and talking very loud in their language, so hence I just said NO thanks and walked away in fustration, surely it would be more sensible to employ people who speak English better. Just MHO

[Soledad]

Carole, NZ barely has enough doctors for its population. I think the health care system there is in such crises that they have to take in doctors who are qualified but perhaps lacking in English skills. But it doesn't seem as though NZ has the luxury of being too discriminating.

[carole]

To be honest Soledad if I lived in USA, I would want to see as much of my own country first before venturing overseas, it is such a vast huge country, it could take some years to do that, then perhaps I would take the plunge.

I have tried to see most of my own country first, granted its very small by comparison, but there are still some beautiful parts of NZ I have yet to see.

Soledad is right, New Zealanders in general are big on Travel overseas, its not just the upper middle class, and the rich, alot live on modest incomes in NZ and still manage the big OE., travel just becomes a priority on a lot of NZer's lists.

For me now its low on the list, because we have a modest income, kids, cats a mortgage, but its high on the list when my daughter leaves home.

Infact my son is just about to embark on his big OE details at a later date lol. will keep you all posted he he.

Soledad I donot think our health system is great, but I was not aware it was in that much of a crisis, perhaps I have been going around with the wool pulled over my eyes.however I do have private medical insurance, so that makes a difference , well at least for surgical anyhow.no waiting time,etc etc.

Maybe we cannot afford to discriminate, but geez its really hard when you cannot understand your doctor who is going to operate on you. believe me.
p.s.
On a lighter note is hubby getting all prepared to watch the Cricket?

[Soledad]

Ah, private insurance! How nice. I didn't have insurance when I was there and I was constantly fed up with the amount of time it would take me to get elective surgery and specialists visits. Blasted! Not that the system over here is perfect, either.

Carole, traveling thru the States is a great experience, but it really isn't comparable to going to another country. It is a different life not just different scenery. Ya know?

And I think Sam is trying to secure some sort of channel through the cable company that will allow him to get some cricket for his fix. :(

[cocker_luva]

in my opinion, everyone who comes to live in america should have to speak english BEFORE they get here.

not to be mean or anything, i have many friends from other countries (mexico, germany, thailand, dominican republic).
but i think its ridictulous that we should learn other languages for them, when they're in OUR country. :rolleyes: :)

[2kitties]

Originally posted by cocker_luva
in my opinion, everyone who comes to live in america should have to speak english BEFORE they get here.

not to be mean or anything, i have many friends from other countries (mexico, germany, thailand, dominican republic).
but i think its ridictulous that we should learn other languages for them, when they're in OUR country. :rolleyes: :)

Which would make sense if OUR country had a NATIONAL LANGUAGE. But Congress has never declared English as the National Language of the United States.

[Soledad]

Yeah, what a great idea. Have language tests before anyone can come over. I'm sure American's would just ace those tests if things were reversed. :rolleyes:


Even funnier that you have a "fight racism" thing on your tagline. Irony, anyone?

[Kfamr]

I don't see how animal racism has anything to do with speaking languages, but I don't agree that she should have to take a test before coming.

I think everyone who comes here should know the basics, like Everyday things we say in English.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Soledad
Even funnier that you have a "fight racism" thing on your tagline. Irony, anyone?

Soledad, it reads "rascism" on my browser. I guess that speaks volumes for how well cocker-luva would do on her English test.;)
I'm going to get yelled at for that, aren't I?

[Soledad]

Um, ANIMAL RACISM??? WTF....

[trayi52]

It says stop Stop animal abuse/racism.;)

[2kitties]

no, it says "rascism" not "racism"

[Soledad]

Yes, but KFamr belives that means stop animal abuse and animal racism. In which case, I'm wondering why someone would use racism in relation to animals.

PS - 2Kitties, stop!! ;):p

[trayi52]

2kitties, does not ;) :D

[2kitties]

Soledad started it!
*kisses Soledad*

[trayi52]

She did not!!!:D ;)

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Soledad
Yeah, what a great idea. Have language tests before anyone can come over. I'm sure American's would just ace those tests if things were reversed. :rolleyes:


Even funnier that you have a "fight racism" thing on your tagline. Irony, anyone?

She did

[trayi52]

Okay you win, but don't let soledad hit me, please!!!!:) ;)

[2kitties]

Soledad, don't hit Trayi.
Actually, I don't think hitting is allowed here at the softer side of PT.
So no one will be hitting anyone. However, I think we could all have a good giggle. No reason mind you, just giggle.:p

[trayi52]

Me too, your both very sweet. And you have to look over me, I'm old, feeble and I'm in my second childhood!! Isn't that great?! :p

Tray:)

[babolaypo65]

Originally posted by cocker_luva
in my opinion, everyone who comes to live in america should have to speak english BEFORE they get here.

not to be mean or anything, i have many friends from other countries (mexico, germany, thailand, dominican republic).
but i think its ridictulous that we should learn other languages for them, when they're in OUR country. :rolleyes: :)

I disagree. 100%. I also think it's interesting that folks feel this way in our generation when it's likely our own ancestors did not speak English when they arrived here....

[2kitties]

babolaypo65, alas, it is time to bring our little thread back on track. And you are exactly right. Only those of English (the nationality) decent can claim true english (the language) heritage. The rest of us are products of every other language around. In fact, the original Americans- the Native Americans- would probably have preferred English (the language or the people) would have stayed far far away!

[trayi52]

True, true, the real American is the Native American. I agree with you there 2kitties. 100%.


Tray

[Kfamr]

"animal racism" or not, I don't see how she was being racist, if that's what you mean by irony.

[2kitties]

Well, I'm going to go on the far side of crass now.
I'm not actually concerned with what language a certain body part speaks. I'm more concerned with it's physical attributes and mannerisms;)

[trayi52]

You got that right Soledad!!;)

[Soledad]

Gosh, you girls are fun.:D :p :)

[Kfamr]

Uh.....wow.
:rolleyes: :eek:

[Soledad]

All right, fold it up, girls.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Soledad
All right, fold it up, girls. The Prude Patrol has found us out.

really? oops.

[trayi52]

2kitties, it your turn to sing, get back!!!

We are fun:)

[trayi52]

oops!

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
All right, fold it up, girls. The Prude Patrol has found us out.

That was very uncalled for.:mad:

[2kitties]

If someone doesn't like the thread, why do they continue to read it? You know, I don't like the Dennis Miller Show. It almost always pisses me off. So I haven't watched it in a couple of years.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
If someone doesn't like the thread, why do they continue to read it? You know, I don't like the Dennis Miller Show. It almost always pisses me off. So I haven't watched it in a couple of years.

Because the topic you guys were talking about was not the original topic and not what I intended to read.

[2kitties]

lol

[trayi52]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Twisterdog]

Because the topic you guys were talking about was not the original topic and not what I intended to read.

Sorry. :o

Maybe we should start a penis thread? LOL Think we could? :p

[trayi52]

Yes there are so many out there!!:D

[amoore]

Wow, what happen to speaking English in America?

What was on your minds last night?........Oh never mind.

:eek:

[micki76]

Perhaps in the future you ladies could use an instant messenger like AIM or MSN. That's what my friends and I use for topics or convos that really don't belong on PT.

I certainly don't belong on the "prude patrol" (ask any of the late night chatters ;) ) but there's a time and a place for everything. This is really not the place for this type of thing. :(

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Wow. :eek: :rolleyes:

I agree with PCB. You guys should take that stuff outside of Pet Talk. It doesn't belong on a family-friendly website. And calling someone a prude, is very, very uncalled for.

[cocker_luva]

Originally posted by Soledad
In which case, I'm wondering why someone would use racism in relation to animals.


i meant that some people hate the bully breeds because of their reps. So if i said breedism, it wouldnt make sense. so lay off! :mad: :rolleyes:

[cocker_luva]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I think everyone who comes here should know the basics, like Everyday things we say in English.

thats what i meant, like when we went to the dominican republic, i didnt expect people to know english, so i tried to speak spanish as much as i could.

[babolaypo65]

Originally posted by cocker_luva
i meant that some people hate the bully breeds because of their reps. So if i said breedism, it wouldnt make sense. so lay off! :mad: :rolleyes:

Actually, I think breedism makes perfect sense.

[Dogz]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
And calling someone a prude, is very, very uncalled for.

Agreed. This is supposed to be a family-friendly place, not a place where you talk about "things" that do not belong here. PCB made some very good points. Take it outside girls.

[Karen]

I deleted most of the posts that were only about a certain part of the male anatomy. Nope, I'm not the Prude Patrol, I'm the Moderator. Keep it clean, folks, and polite. Silliness is fine, sure, but keep it out of others' threads, and keep it non-vulgar.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Thanks Karen! :)

[Kfamr]

Thanks Karen.

I'm not necessarily prude either, but I do know wrong from right.

[trayi52]

I'm sorry everybody. Didn't mean to offend anybody. Okay?

[Dogz]

Thank you, Karen.:)

[Karen]

Now, for the thread topic at hand ...

My father's parents were multi-lingual. My grandmother was French-Canadian, so French was spoken at home during her childhood, and she learned English outside her home. My Father's Dad's family were recent imigrants from Sweden. So my grandfather Peterson spoke Swedish, English, French, and learned Portugese and could get along pretty well in SPanish as well. The extra languages came in handy being Chief of Police in a community with many immigrant mill-workers.

I was fascinated with language as a child, and wanted my granfather to teach me Swedish, at least. I learned a few phrases of French-Canadian, but my grandmother did not want me to speak anything but English, so would not speak French around us kids, and didn't want Grandpa to speak anything but English to us. She had been looked down on as a "foreigner," and did not want us to go through the same trouble.

Having traveled to Beijing, it was amazing how many people there were learning English, and eager to practice it on Paul and me.

I find it very interesting to travel to other countries. But I know people who have no desire to leave the town they grew up in, never mind the state or the country. It's not that they have anything against people in other lands, (or towns), they just like it where they are. Different people have different interests, which I think is fine. What is adventurous for me might be torturous for you, and vice versa.

[2kitties]

I apologize for anyone who was offended by our fun last night. But I'll note that our terms were entirely biological and nobody used any of the slang terms usually considered offensive. :)
I do wonder, for all who were so "disgusted" by our lively jokes and fun time, what do you do in your real lives to shield yourselves from anything you may find remotely offensive? I considered our conversation last evening to be way less offensive than most of the things you see in your everyday lives. In fact, they were silly jokes that I never dreamed would have fallen prey to the censorship troop. Just all in fun ladies, all in fun. Sex is the reason we're all here, you understand. There is nothing dirty about it. It's an entirely natural part of life. The reason for life, if you will.
I'm sometimes offended by the anti-George Bush stuff but I'm certainly not crying to have it deleted.
I'm assuming you don't walk around "disgusted" all the time. So how is it you shield yourselves from the world around you?

[Kfamr]

There is no way I can "sheild" myself from the world around me, but I shouldn't have to do that here, on Pet Talk, a FAMILY site.

And yeah, most of the time I am disgusted from what I hear, but i'd never expect to here it on Pet Talk, I thought you girls knew better. :p

Yes, sex is the reason we're here, but sex, male genitals, and dirty jokes about it have nothing to do about speaking English in America. Nor did I expect to read that in here.


And I don't see anyone crying to have it deleted.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
There is no way I can "sheild" myself from the world around me, but I shouldn't have to do that here, on Pet Talk, a FAMILY site.

And yeah, most of the time I am disgusted from what I hear, but i'd never expect to here it on Pet Talk, I thought you girls knew better. :p

Thanks Mom. I often enjoy a nice moral lecture on a Saturday afternoon.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Thanks Mom. I often enjoy a nice moral lecture on a Saturday afternoon.



What?

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Kfamr
There is no way I can "sheild" myself from the world around me, but I shouldn't have to do that here, on Pet Talk, a FAMILY site.

And yeah, most of the time I am disgusted from what I hear, but i'd never expect to here it on Pet Talk, I thought you girls knew better. :p

Yes, sex is the reason we're here, but sex, male genitals, and dirty jokes about it have nothing to do about speaking English in America. Nor did I expect to read that in here.


And I don't see anyone crying to have it deleted.

Agreed. It went WAY off topic. :rolleyes:
"Things" like this shouldn't be on Pet Talk. That's what AIM, Yahoo, or PM's are for.

[Dogz]

2kitties- It may have been 'all fun and games' to you, but some people were offended, so it doesn't matter if there are worse things to be offended by. Next time have your little 'chat' using PMs, AIM, yahoo, etc.

[gini]

This made me think about the email that I had just sent to my brother. I said that I thought we must have gotten the travel bug from my paternal grandmother and double dosed it with the adventures of my maternal grandfather.

It seems as though one of us in the family is always out of the country.

My brother is working in Brazil. He speaks fluently French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese and can get by in German.

My nephew is going to school in Italy. He speaks Spanish, Portuguese and all of his classes are in Italian - so he is mastering that language now. He was born in the United States.

My other nephew is on a holiday in Panama. He speaks Spanish and Portuguese. He was born in Brazil.

My niece takes advantage of the airmiles my brother racks up so rapidly, and any opportunity to travel to Europe - she's gone.

My adventure this year was to Australia and New Zealand. I can speak a very limited Spanish and also can understand a good deal of Italian. French was my college language and I failed miserably at that language. I could never get the accents.



And Karen, thank you, I personally just hate it when our members feel they have to be so snotty to each other.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Dogz
2kitties- It may have been 'all fun and games' to you, but some people were offended, so it doesn't matter if there are worse things to be offended by. Next time have your little 'chat' using PMs, AIM, yahoo, etc.

Clearly it was "all fun and games" to others besides myself, as I wasn't having a conversation on my own. We were having a good time. The posts are gone now, but if they were still here to evidence themselves, I would challenge any of you to prove to me they were dirty. They were silly fun jokes the women have with one another. Possibly not children, but in my opinion, no one on this site is a child. They may be young adults, but all old enough to know what a penis is and what it does. And old enough to laugh at a joke that can be found in any PG rated movie. I don't know a single woman who is honestly so uptight she can't giggle at a little penis joke.

I don't consider it to be offensive matierial. It would not have been considered pornographic by any court in the land, yet was censored on Pet Talk because a few didn't like it. Well, there are plenty of things in life we don't like.

[dukedogsmom]

I really didn't do anything except type that one word. All I was trying to do was get that topic out of my thread. I'm not a prude either and enjoy sexual humor but that's not what this thread was about.

[Dogz]

Let me just say one thing.
It is called Pet Talk for a reason.

[Kfamr]

I doubt if it was acceptable for a family friendly site, that Karen would just delete it. And if it was acceptable, no one would have said anything.

But whatever, daughter, you're right-- everyone else is completely wrong.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
I really didn't do anything except type that one word. All I was trying to do was get that topic out of my thread. I'm not a prude either and enjoy sexual humor but that's not what this thread was about.

Does that mean we can have a sexual humor thread?

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Dogz
Let me just say one thing.
It is called Pet Talk for a reason.

So here in the dog house we are only allowed to talk about pets?

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
But whatever, daughter, you're right-- everyone else is completely wrong.
I may be the only person here with the stones to put it in writing, but I wasn't the only person having fun with it last night. And I'm getting plenty of pms from people who also had fun with it and agree it was unoffensive material. So, do not assume I am alone in my opinions about this subject.

[Dogz]

I didn't say that, hun.:) But it is a family/friendly site.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

It doesn't belong in this thread, or on Pet Talk. Like I said, that's what PM's, Yahoo, AIM, etc..are for.

[Kfamr]

But it's obvious it was offensive BECAUSE KAREN DELETED IT.


Geez...:rolleyes:

Lets just get back to the subject that's SUPPOSED to be talked about.

[Dogz]

We don't think you were the only one being "humorous" but I don't see anyone else still arguing about it.

[Dogz]

Originally posted by Kfamr
But it's obvious it was offensive BECAUSE KAREN DELETED IT.


Geez...:rolleyes:

Lets just get back to the subject that's SUPPOSED to be talked about.

Agreed. If anyone still wants to talk about it, use PMs.:)

[Soledad]

2Kitties, I don't want you to feel like you're the only one defending last night's conversation, but I learned long ago there's just no reasoning with some people. Period.

I said what I said and I'm not ashamed of it. If it needed to be deleted for other people's comfort, fine by me. Such delicate souls need all the protection they can get.

[trayi52]

Soledad, 2kitties you are my heros.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Kfamr
But it's obvious it was offensive BECAUSE KAREN DELETED IT.


Yep, agreed.

[2kitties]

You're right, no one is still arguing about it.
They realize there is no point trying to reason with you all. It's a waste of breath.
I quit. Please continue with your morally irreproachable conversation. Certainly we'd never want to say anything to make anyone else feel bad or offend their ears. We must always be politically correct.

[Kfamr]

:mad: I'll just keep to myself. :(

I really don't get you two......
:rolleyes:

[2kitties]

Thanks Trayi and Soledad.
Kisses.
Is that okay, that I send you kisses? I wouldn't want it to offend anyone offended by the idea of women kissing one another.

okay okay.. I quit.

[Kfamr]

Oh gosh. :rolleyes:

Please do quit, already. Because it's really getting immature and out of control, not that it wasn't before, but i'm really sick of it.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Geez. :rolleyes:

Let's just get back to what the thread was originally started for.

[Kfamr]

To the orginal topic..


What really makes me think, how are people who don't speak English, going to succeed in a country that mostly speaks English?

I know some of you have said that they mostly live in an area that is surrounded by their people, but still, I think it would be nearly impossible to live in an English speaking country if I knew nothing about the language.

[2kitties]

I think I'll take this advice from Kayann'e favorite musician Nelly (whose hip hop lyrics are about everthing from sex to drugs to shooting people):


"Somebody probably jealous cause they bi**h got hit
But ain't nobody else droppin s**t like this
Should we apologize? Nah f** 'em, just leave 'em pissed

But a penis joke offends you?

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I think I'll take this advice from Kayann'e favorite musician Nelly (whose hip hop lyrics are about everthing from sex to drugs to shooting people):


"Somebody probably jealous cause they bi**h got hit
But ain't nobody else droppin s**t like this
Should we apologize? Nah f** 'em, just leave 'em pissed

But a penis joke offends you?


I didn't say it offended me. I giggled and laughed. but it does NOT belong here nor does the lyrics to that song.

If you'd like to take some advice; grow up.


P.S. That's a good song. :)

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
If you'd like to take some advice; grow up.

And my advice to you is lighten up.

ps: yea, it's an awesome song. Peace.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
And my advice to you is lighten up.


Thanks for the advice! I may think of taking it when I need to lighten up, Because i'm just fine right now. :)

[Dogz]

Originally posted by Kfamr
it does NOT belong here nor does the lyrics to that song.

You know what? I agree.;)

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Kfamr
P.S. That's a good song. :)

I like the song too. :D

[Amber]

Originally posted by 2kitties
and agree it was unoffensive material.

Then why did you even posted it in the first place? :confused:

[micki76]

You know, I found the jokes funny and would have joined in the fun if this had been on AIM, MSN, Yahoo or any place other than a public forum. I have enough consideration for others who may not enjoy that type of humor that I won’t speak that way here, anymore than I would in front of my grandmother or anyone else that may not be comfortable with it. Like I said there’s a place for that, but this is not it.

[Twisterdog]

I apologize for anyone who was offended by our fun last night. But I'll note that our terms were entirely biological and nobody used any of the slang terms usually considered offensive.

No doubt.

I will admit that we took a thread off-topic. Sorry. It happens ALL the time.

But, puhleese .... we were silly, but I'm sorry, we were not vulgar or filthy or particularly crude.

And this is the Dog House .... "For slightly controversial topics" ..."We have created a new forum for any post that is in some way controversial, upsetting, or just makes us go eeeew!" ..."If you are easily upset, The Dog House is not a place you want to go." Therefore, I don't think we broke any rules whatsoever. We talked about something slightly controversial, we did not swear or use profanity, we didn't mention sex per se and any inuendos were highly veiled, and we had this conversation in the proper forum. Wrong thread, for which we apologized, but right forum ... the Dog House.

Quoting Karen .... "If you are easily upset, The Dog House is not a place you want to go." Perhaps this ought to be taken to heart by those of you who are so easily offended by the biological, classroom, textbook term for male genitalia.

[Kfamr]

Karen herself deleted it, so it's obviously something that should not have been here.

[Fiachra]

Originally posted by KYS
Copying Sandra's words, My grandparents and same with my husbands grandparents
also came to this country and immersed themselves in the culture and language, manged to obtain jobs and succeed and later raise a family and maintain both their cultural heritage and their language while at the same time, learn what it meant to be an American, including learning the language.

If I was to go live in a non-english speaking country
I would learn or try to learn the language.
I also think it's a shame it is not
manditory for our children not to learn
spanish as a secondary language starting in grammer school.
JMHO



I agree 100%.