Downloading Music [Archive]

popcornbird

11-18-2003, 10:34 PM

I have never used Kazaa or any of those other sites. Its stealing, in my opinion. I will not support *thieves* by contributing to their *theft*. I think those sites' existance is totally wrong, because the things they have up to download for free are things that actually cost a lot of money and are copyright. I'd rather pay the money than do something wrong. My friends always tell me to download stuff off of Kazaa. :rolleyes: Sorry, I won't do that. I will not do something that will make me feel guilty afterwards. They tell me what would anyone know. Well God knows. Even if the whole world doesn't know, God knows, and I know. I won't support such sites ever, and I won't do something that I believe is stealing.

I know a lot of people don't consider it stealing..........but I do.

But I do think its wrong to charge a 12 year old for this. They should charge the folks who made the sites available.

Relentless

11-18-2003, 11:09 PM

I download songs all the time I use a special type of Kazaa that can't be tracked so I can't get sued or whatever. I'm not about to pay 15 dollars for a CD when I only like one or two songs on it.

babolaypo65

11-18-2003, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by Relentless
I download songs all the time I use a special type of Kazaa that can't be tracked so I can't get sued or whatever. I'm not about to pay 15 dollars for a CD when I only like one or two songs on it.

If this is your argument, why not BUY the one or two songs from a pay site. That way you don't waste your 15 dollars, but the artist gets paid for his work.

Let's not kid ourselves guys. It's really no different that movie pirating, stealing cable, or any other kind of stealing. You're even describing the lengths you go to to avoid detection.

Do it if you'd like, but let's call it what it is.

popcornbird

11-18-2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by babolaypo65
If this is your argument, why not BUY the one or two songs from a pay site. That way you don't waste you 15 dollars, but the artist gets paid for his work?

Let's not kid ourselves guys. It's really no different that movie pirating, stealing cable, or any other kind of stealing. You're even describing the lengths you go to to avoid detection.

I agree. Stealing is wrong and a sin, whether its stealing money from a bank, robbing a house, or taking stuff off of illegal sites, its STEALING. Anything illegal is wrong in my book and I would *never* do it. I don't cheat myself with going to sites that cannot be detected. I know that even if people won't know, God will know. I cannot do something wrong like this, and I find it sad that SO many teens download stuff from illegal sites on daily basis. :(

Relentless

11-18-2003, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by babolaypo65
If this is your argument, why not BUY the one or two songs from a pay site. That way you don't waste your 15 dollars, but the artist gets paid for his work.

Let's not kid ourselves guys. It's really no different that movie pirating, stealing cable, or any other kind of stealing. You're even describing the lengths you go to to avoid detection.

Do it if you'd like, but let's call it what it is.

Because buying costs money and I don't have that much to spend. =p

CathyBogart

11-18-2003, 11:23 PM

Actually, I buy far more CDs now than I would if I didn't download music. My strategy is this: download a bunch of music from a band or from one CD. If I like it enough, I buy it. If not, it gets deleted. I don't feel that this is stealing, I feel that this is protecting myself from wasting money and supporting bands I don't like.

After all, I wouldn't ever have heard of Saran Mclachlan if it wasn't for Kazaa, and I've given her well over $100 of my money now. ^.^

trayi52

11-19-2003, 03:21 AM

WolfChan
Like you, I will hear them on Kazaa and then go out and buy the CD, like for instance I heard a song on the radio, I loved that song, but they never would tell who the artist was, so I done a seach on Kazaa and found it, by Sonique- It feels so good. I really loved the song, and I went out and bought the whole Cd, the same with Tal Backman- She's So High. Loved that one, could not find out who the artist was, I have that CD now.
Like Relentless said, some of the prices are so high just to get one or two songs you like. There are songs that you would not have heard if you didn't hear it first on Kazaa, or whatever you choose to use. I have bought a lot of cds, just because I heard it first on one of these programs.

mahayana

11-19-2003, 06:33 AM

We tried downloading music back when we first got internet. It was horrible! With a phone connection it took over an hour to get one song, and most files were full of skips, incomplete, etc..

I did get one song that I had already bought on vinyl and on tape in the past......was that stealing?

My lawyer son works in the music industry. He says copying digital is illegal, making a tape recording is legal. Yet DIRECTV is actively promoting the technology to privately copy movies and everything they broadcast (all digital)!!!!!!!!

Wonder where they will find a jury to convict the "examples" now being prosecuted...

Dogz

11-19-2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by G.P.girl
i don't know:rolleyes:
i still download music sometimes.

Hopefully they don't sue you.

Dogz

11-19-2003, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by 2kitties
I don't think they should sue 12 year olds. I think they should sue those making the music available. however I realize that isn't physically possible so they go after 12 year olds.

But I think downloading music is wrong. It is stealing.

I agree.

Originally posted by RICHARD
Bill Gates?;)
lololololol:D
That's what my friend said too.;)

2kitties

11-19-2003, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Relentless
Because buying costs money and I don't have that much to spend. =p

So your arguement is that peopel should just be able to take what they can't afford???:confused:

trayi52

11-19-2003, 11:32 AM

mahayana
you have a point, I wonder how many has taped movies off television?

RICHARD

11-19-2003, 11:45 AM

Now...

Should play writers be able to sue the hundreds of schools that perform their plays each year??

Same difference.

They made money on the first run/performance and then years later the 10th grade class does 'Oklahama' for free...

But then again people SHOULD get sued for LISTENING to some of
of today's music.

I love to hear about musicians talking about song as 'their kids'..

If you love them THAT much keep them at home.....
;)

babolaypo65

11-19-2003, 12:44 PM

Ahh, but different rules apply to plays, which are published. You simply have to acknowledge that it isn't yours.

Same goes for information you use in papers and on websites.

Music is different. In the past, we didn't all know it was illegal. Now we do.

Should they go after 12 year olds? no.

Should the laws be changed to allow you to download for free, without violating federal law? Perhaps.

But it IS the law now. It seems odd that we choose which laws to ignore and have rationalizations for our choices. That's all.

RICHARD

11-19-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Ahh, but different rules apply to plays, which are published. You simply have to acknowledge that it isn't yours.

So that means I can act out scenes of the FULL MONTY in my bathroom and no one will sue me????
:cool:

lbaker

11-19-2003, 01:28 PM

If you do, and if Eddie gets an eyefull, don't let him near the phone or start looking up "lawyers" in the phone book :eek: :eek: and ESPECIALLY don't let him get his paws on a camera :rolleyes: :p blackmail city fer shur

primabella

11-19-2003, 02:36 PM

We used to have Napster and then got Kazaa, until we got a virus through it. Then my dad forbid us to use any music-downloading programs (it took 3 weeks to get the PC back up). In a way I miss it, in a way I don't.

Sueing someone for downloading music is wrong. If they wanna stop this the only thing to do is to make each one of these sites a pay-site where you pay 1$ for each song or something. Sueing won't solve anything and I find it completely ridiculous.

2kitties

11-19-2003, 02:41 PM

Itunes is a great pay download service. Songs cost as little as $0.75 and because you pay, the quality is great and guaranteed and is virus free. I believe Napster is now pay.

Go to www.apple.com and you can download the itunes program. It is great and works on both mac and pc.

babolaypo65

11-19-2003, 03:08 PM

If you act out the scenes OUTSIDE of your bathroom, they might.
But for different reasons. ;)

Originally posted by RICHARD
So that means I can act out scenes of the FULL MONTY in my bathroom and no one will sue me????
:cool:

babolaypo65

11-19-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by 2kitties
Itunes is a great pay download service. Songs cost as little as $0.75 and because you pay, the quality is great and guaranteed and is virus free. I believe Napster is now pay.

Go to www.apple.com and you can download the itunes program. It is great and works on both mac and pc.

That's what I use. Itunes for Mac. :D

ramanth

11-19-2003, 03:38 PM

I don't personally download the music, but I own a few CD's of 'driving music' that friends have made for me.

I've also owned a few pirated movies, like LOTR, Finding Nemo, and Pirates of the Caribbean.

I paid the high dollars to see these movies on the big screen and now I own FOTR, TTT, and Finding Nemo (going to get Pirates, when it comes out).

To me, watching the crappy pirated version sates my thirst for the movie till I can own it.

dukedogsmom

11-19-2003, 06:46 PM

*Raises hand* I'm guilty too! I don't understand why the powers that be went after Napster like that but Kazaa(where I go now) is allowed to do exactly the same thing. It's so cool to hear a new song you like on the radio, get home and download it. Why in the world would we want to have to buy a whole cd for one song? It may be "politically incorrect" but it's great.

babolaypo65

11-19-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
*Raises hand* I'm guilty too! I don't understand why the powers that be went after Napster like that but Kazaa(where I go now) is allowed to do exactly the same thing. It's so cool to hear a new song you like on the radio, get home and download it. Why in the world would we want to have to buy a whole cd for one song? It may be "politically incorrect" but it's great.

See, it's not just politically incorrect. IT'S ILLEGAL. It's stealing. The musicians work. They make music. They earn money when YOU pay for it.

popcornbird

11-19-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
It may be "politically incorrect" but it's great.

Its not *politically incorrect*. Its wrong.........its stealing. Its like someone goes and steals someone's jewelery, and then comes and sells it for a low price to someone who is well aware that its stolen. You KNOW the jewelery is stolen, but you still take it. Its just as wrong as that. Its contributing to stealing, and that's wrong.

babolaypo65

11-19-2003, 07:53 PM

That's a great analogy pop. It's very much like receiving stolen goods, but rationalizing that YOU didn't actually steal it, just bought it.... ITs still wrong.

2kitties

11-19-2003, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by babolaypo65
See, it's not just politically incorrect. IT'S ILLEGAL. It's stealing. The musicians work. They make music. They earn money when YOU pay for it.

^^ what bab said. It's stealing.

binka_nugget

11-19-2003, 11:38 PM

I use Kazaa. I try to limit it since I've gotten so many viruses from it and also realize that it's illegal.

Here's something you might find interesting..I got the opportunity to speak to a recording artist about her view on this. She said that she was for it because she felt that if people truly liked her music, they'd support her by buying her cd. She mentioned that having people like her music meant alot more to her than the dollars she earned.

But I guess, stealing is stealing. Period. It's wrong and I admit that I've done it.

Kfamr

11-19-2003, 11:53 PM

I may download a song once or twice in a blue moon.
I downloaded many over the years -- like back when Napster was first coming out.

I hardly download or use it anymore, because i'm just too impatient for the crappy things to actually connect.

Why don't think target the big download programs like Morpheous and KaZaa, instead of children?

Rio and Me

11-20-2003, 06:55 AM

I dont know how so "not gultiy" of that!!!
but if downloading music/DVD movies on the internet is illegal, why do the websites allow you to do it??? if they didnt have that little "download" button that you can eaisly click on it, then people wouldnt be able to download therefor no need for it to be illegal because you cant do it!!!!!!
i also herd that its illegal to record films of the TV!! so again why do they make VCR's with record buttons???
this world is messed up!!!!
Ky and Rio

Dogz

11-20-2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Kfamr

Why don't think target the big download programs like Morpheous and KaZaa, instead of children?

I think that they should do this also.

babolaypo65

11-20-2003, 08:26 AM

2kitties

11-20-2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
I dont know how so "not gultiy" of that!!!
but if downloading music/DVD movies on the internet is illegal, why do the websites allow you to do it??? if they didnt have that little "download" button that you can eaisly click on it, then people wouldnt be able to download therefor no need for it to be illegal because you cant do it!!!!!!
i also herd that its illegal to record films of the TV!! so again why do they make VCR's with record buttons???
this world is messed up!!!!
Ky and Rio

1. It is perfectly legal to record programs off your television. And you can watch them all you want in your own home. You can't, however, use them for broadcast because they are copywritten.

2. You can buy child pornography on the internet- but that doesn't make it legal. Not everything you are "able" to do is okay. You are perfectly "able" to murder. But you will probably go to prison.

3. The reason they target children instead of Kazaa is because Kazaa is an interface. It is simply a mask hidden on the gnutella service which is impossible to target because it is a cybermedium. If they shut down one interface, another will open. That is the beauty of the internet- it's virtually unstoppable.

Dogz

11-20-2003, 09:50 PM

"If you can afford a computer, you can afford a CD."

-Nelly

Kfamr

11-20-2003, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
"If you can afford a computer, you can affort a CD."

-Nelly

Hehe :)

I have all of Nelly's songs on MP3 but, i've also bought every single on of those CD's as well. :)

IttyBittyKitty

11-22-2003, 10:04 PM

I admit to downloading a few songs back when I was a poor teenager whose tiny little allowance bearly stretched to clothing and lollies, let alone CD's. I had a computer, thank you Nelly, but it was owned and paid for by my mother. It still resides in the familial abode.

Downloading music. A hot issue indeed.

Yes, it is stealing. Yes, it is "wrong," but judge not lest ye be judged and consider a few new aspects to the debate:

1) The record companies talk of all this lost "profit," but let's use our noggins for a moment. A 12-year-old girl downloads a thousand songs, which they consider to be worth $3,000 dollars. Had she not downloaded them, she would never ever been able to afford them, and probably would never have heard most of the music. Therefore, it is not "lost profit." It never existed in the first place! What it amounts to, in fact, is greater exposure for artists with the teenage crowds. Which will later generate "real" profits. When these teenagers are adults, some will continue to download music but most will "get a life" away from their internet friends, use their computers less and buy music from music stores because, let's face it, it's much classier to do so. How many 40 year olds do you know that download music? LOL!

2) Continuing from point 1, I "discovered," through the medium of downloading music, artists such as Travis, James and Coldplay long before their music was available in Australia. My Internet friends overseas recommended that I download this song and that song. Now that I have the money, I very rarely download music - I pay for it - and the artists I choose are those that I once listened to "for free" and took a liking to. If I do download music, it is for a "sample." In my opinion, you cannot beat the quality of a CD, because the MP3 format is compression, no matter which way you look at it.

4) Sure, you can download a song for a dollar but how many teenagers own a credit card? They may have a dollar in their pocket, yes, but if they go into a store they will be charged the "highway robbery" prices in the CD shops. And it's not just us being robbed, by the way, the artists themselves see pitifully small portions of the profit ending up in their pockets. Yet, no one speaks up about this issue!

5) I have a strong distaste for most "popular" and "top 40's music," thus some of the music I like is very difficult to find in stores. Some of the MP3's I have aren't even available in this country yet. But, when they do become available here, myself and others who have listened to them already know the artists and their style and will happily pay for it. I am still waitng for Boa to become available in Aussie stores!

6) I 100% disagree with new data security algorithms that allow CD producers to stop you copying your own music. If I buy a CD, paying $30 bucks, I want the right to keep a copy of a song on my computer and have the hard disk in my car if I so choose. I do not run Kazaa or any such programs, therefore no one else can access and copy that song.

Let's remember folks, there is no such thing as "black and white" arguments when you are trying to define something as vague as intellectual property.

EDIT: damn typo! And I just have to add that I really can't call Britney Spears an "Artist." Sorry, I just can't bring myself to do it .........;)

Aspen and Misty

11-22-2003, 10:31 PM

For those who like to listen to music -- I recomend

www.launch.com

It's free and legal!

Ash

Dogz

11-22-2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by IttyBittyKitty
If I buy a CD, paying $30 bucks, I want the right to keep a copy of a song on my computer and have the hard disk in my car if I so choose.

$30?!? Is that in Australian money, or... :confused: Here in MN, we pay about $14-20 for a CD. Kmart can be such a rip off.:rolleyes:

Dogz

11-22-2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
For those who like to listen to music -- I recomend

www.launch.com

It's free and legal!

Ash

I am going to check this out.:)

CamCamPup33

11-23-2003, 04:28 PM

Yep! I have Downloaded a few times before, not lately, the site that i go to *guarentees* its Free and legal.. The prices of cd's are alot (here at least) And what if you only wanted one song? Uh hello! 25 bucks down the drain, if your only going to listen to that one song you like.. Sorry but thats my opionion.. I think it's nicer to just download a few mixed songs on one cd.. I dont think its considered stealing, really.. *but thats my opionion*

wolfsoul

11-23-2003, 07:05 PM

If downloading music is such a terrible offence, why isn't it illegal to have a site where you can download?

Jynnelle and I went to the movies yesterday and they had a preview that mainly said to stop pirating. Their attempts mean well, but will they work? I don't think they will. While the prices of CDs are so high, and while downloading off the computer is free and more convenient, I don't they they will.

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 12:01 AM

I have a cd burner lol, but I dont know how to use them lol my brother does it for me. I think ppl in the music buisness get paid too much anyways, so Why not burn cds. they have millions of dollers anyways. meh ...

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I have a cd burner lol, but I dont know how to use them lol my brother does it for me. I think ppl in the music buisness get paid too much anyways, so Why not burn cds. they have millions of dollers anyways. meh ...

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think Sam Walton makes too much money, adn I think toaster ovens are too expensive. Therefore I can go to Walmart and take a toaster oven without paying for it.

lbaker

11-24-2003, 08:25 AM

good point BAB...... I myself just play my old "vinyl" albums or hum to myself :rolleyes: Radio's are still free.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 08:47 AM

I too have a CD burner (built into the computor)!
Why is it there? to make a copy of your CD?
so it cant be illegal if every new computor usualy has them?!?
a blank CD cost money, so you record a CD onto it a give it to a friend or somthing? i dont see a problem with that, ive done loads for my family, its not like im mass producing them to make money!
Ky and Rio

2kitties

11-24-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
I too have a CD burner (built into the computor)!
Why is it there? to make a copy of your CD?
so it cant be illegal if every new computor usualy has them?!?
a blank CD cost money, so you record a CD onto it a give it to a friend or somthing? i dont see a problem with that, ive done loads for my family, its not like im mass producing them to make money!
Ky and Rio

Your cd burner is so you can burn your files to a cd for archiving or transferring. Or you can make mixes of music you have purchased.
Every household has a butcher knife- it isn't legal for you to take it out and stab people with it.
You know it is stealing, everyone knows it is stealing. I think it is hilarious that so many people spend so much time trying to justify what they know is a crime.
And it is rediculous to think the nickle you paid to the cd manufacturer to buy the blanks goes to the artist you are stealing from.

For those who wonder why the interfaces are out there, just do some reading. They can't be targeted because they are cybermedium which simply mask a large gneutella database that is unreachable.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 09:04 AM

Ok i know what you mean now, with the files and stuff and the knife thing!
but surly if they were that desperate for people NOT to burn CD's and make a "trade" out of them, then surly with all the technoligy we have today they could make them so you can burn files but not CD's!
i dont think that me burning off a few CD's is going to hurt the artist to much!! i mean its not like their struggling to eat etc!!
Ky and rio

lbaker

11-24-2003, 09:15 AM

So Ky, if your favorite artist were struggling to eat you would give them some money. Otherwise not. This makes sense to you??

anna_66

11-24-2003, 09:18 AM

And no, I don't think it's stealing. If it is made available for free, then it's not stealing.

2kitties

11-24-2003, 09:28 AM

So anna, do you believe it is okay to take goods someone else already stole? That is what you are saying.

It is a crime. It is stealing. Why is this so hard for people to understand. You are simply finding an easy way to get something for free that you rightfully should pay for.
It doesn't matter if you think music costs to much at Walmart. You are not in charge of setting costs of things in this world. Just because we don't like the price of something, does not give us the right to steal it.

2kitties

11-24-2003, 09:30 AM

It is stealing and everybody knows it is stealing. So, if you choose to do it, be man or woman enough to say "yes, I know it is stealing and illegal, but I choose to do it anyway." Don't try to justify it as okay. We aren't Robin Hood. And, if you choose to do it anyway, and the record companies or recording artists choose to prosecute you, then you should be man or woman enough to face the consequences of your actions. Fines or jail time- you earned it.

popcornbird

11-24-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by 2kitties
So anna, do you believe it is okay to take goods someone else already stole? That is what you are saying.

It is a crime. It is stealing. Why is this so hard for people to understand. You are simply finding an easy way to get something for free that you rightfully should pay for.
It doesn't matter if you think music costs to much at Walmart. You are not in charge of setting costs of things in this world. Just because we don't like the price of something, does not give us the right to steal it.

Well said!

I have a CD burner, and ALWAYS burn CD's, but I ALWAYS do it legally. I have *never* downloaded stuff off of illegal websites and burned them onto a CD. I usually burn CD's to CD's.............like computer games for example. We buy one and make a copy (for personal use), so my brother and I can play against each other from different computers, etc. That's ok I believe, since we bought the CD.............we already have it, and then the copy........we're using it ourselves, just to have a duplicate. I also burn my digital pictures onto CD's, etc. That's all legal use of a CD burner, and there are SO many other reasons one would have to use it LEGALLY. CD burners are not there to use illegally. You can do wrong things with any product........whether its a cd burner or a computer or whatever. Its how you choose to use it..........and really, everyone's accountable for what they do.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by anna_66
And no, I don't think it's stealing. If it is made available for free, then it's not stealing.

Devil's advocate again. Let's say I go in to Walmart, look at toaster ovens, but I'm bummed because they cost so much.

I then go outside and there's a guy there with a truckload of clearly stolen, still in the box toaster ovens. He offers me one. Is it a crime to take it? YES. it's called receiving stolen goods.

just because it's free on the internet doesn't make it legal. You can get kiddie porn on the net for free.

Someone else mentioned it, and I'd like to follow up. Is this a crime. YES. is it a horrible crime? not in the big scheme of things but it IS illegal.
Do I really care if you steal music? nah, not really. But I'm impressed and apalled at the lengths some of you will go to to rationalize breaking the law. To make it seem alright, heck to make it seem that it's not illegal.

I also marvel that some of you were very quick to jump on..who... tikeya's mom I think, when she didn't cite stuff off the internet on her own webpage. Can you not see the irony in that?

Again, I don't really care if you're doing it, I'm not judging you negatively for downloading (not that my opinion matters to any of you), but I am shocked at the degrees to which you'll go defending the breaking of laws.

I don't like that the speed limit on Coal ave. is 30. Sometimes I go 35mph, but I know I'm speeding, I know I'm breaking the law, and heck I even know it can be dangerous. I wont tell you it's a dumb law, and an arbitrary law, and I wont tell you that speeding isnt *really* breaking the law. That gosh, they wouldn't make the road so smooth and cars so powerful if they didnt want you to go faster. they wouldnt have the lights timed so you could go either 30 or 35 or 40 without missing a light....

The ability to rationalize is important, rationalizations are important. But it's imperative that we are aware we are doing it.

trayi52

11-24-2003, 09:51 AM

I am sorry to bring this up, but when you buy a computer game, you can make a backup of it in case something happens to the original CD, but you can use it on only one computer. Even if you bought it and you own it, you still have to buy different games to put on a different computer. Companies like Microsoft consider it stealing if you put it on more than one computer. If you are going to use it on another computer, then like the schools that run a certain program, then you have to pay extra for that too.
Read the labels. If it says you can share it then it is okay.
If you notice with the new operating system XP, it is only allowed to be used on one computer, you buy the system, install it on your computer and then try installing it on another computer.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 09:54 AM

Good point tray. and they do THAT to stop piracy. If people didnt pirate, they wouldn't need to do that.

2kitties

11-24-2003, 09:59 AM

Yes. A program I use often, Quark, has extreme security measures on its newest version. You can't even install at all without registering. In order to use on more than one computer you either have to buy a seat license or multiple copies. I think that is only fair, though. People are ruthless and will buy it for their company and install it for all their layout artists. That isn't right. The software manufacturers have to do something to protect their interests.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 10:07 AM

Indeed, if they didn't do that, folks would be downloading Quark from free sites.

2kitties

11-24-2003, 10:09 AM

exactly.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 11:14 AM

Ok as popcornbird said i have brought the CD first, then i might burn it off for my car or to keep as a copy or just to give it to a friend who cant afford a CD! so i have given the artist what they asked and they havnt lost anything by me burning one off!
I sometimes burn some CD's for my gran so she can have a spare, she also has brought that CD!
lbaker i dont understand what you mean!!!
ive NEVER downloaded off the internet, but as ive said before its so easy to download stuff (acctually i dont know who, :) )
off the net so why dont they stop the people allowing it to happen that way noone can do it, problem solved!
Ky and Rio

2kitties

11-24-2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
Ok as popcornbird said i have brought the CD first, then i might burn it off for my car or to keep as a copy or just to give it to a friend who cant afford a CD! so i have given the artist what they asked and they havnt lost anything by me burning one off!
I sometimes burn some CD's for my gran so she can have a spare, she also has brought that CD!
lbaker i dont understand what you mean!!!
ive NEVER downloaded off the internet, but as ive said before its so easy to download stuff (acctually i dont know who, :) )
off the net so why dont they stop the people allowing it to happen that way noone can do it, problem solved!
Ky and Rio

If you copy the cd for yourself and you've paid for it, then it is legal. But you have broken the law when you make a copy for your friends who can't afford a cd.

I'm going to say ONE MORE TIME: The gneutella system is a cybermedium. Kazaa, napster, morpheus, etc are simply interfaces. They can be shut down, but gneutella, being a cybermedium, can't. It doesn't exist anywhere. When they shut down napster, morpheus popped up, then Kazaa, then more and more. The actually gneutella system, being out in cyberspace, can't be penetrated with technology available to the government at this time. That is the reason 12 year olds and old men are being sued. It is the only way the companies have at this time to make people understand that it is WRONG and they aren't planning to put up with it.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 11:33 AM

ok im not breaking the law when i do it for myself, and fare enough when i do it for a friend i am!
all those websites your on about (for downloading music) ive never herd of them, wont visit them and will not be downloading any music off the net, because my computor has had a virus (from where i dont know/how i dont know) but i dont want it to get another one.
we all have our own opinions and while you say you dont do this, you must have done something illegal before?
Ky and Rio

trayi52

11-24-2003, 11:49 AM

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. When I said copying a game and installing it on another computer you own, even if it is in the same home, it is still considered stealing, so we all do things we are not aware of, that is illegal. I know it is a law that really sucks. We go out and pay a very large amount of money for these games, and programs, but it is like we are just paying for the right to use them, and they don’t really belong to us to do what we want to with them.

Dogz

11-24-2003, 11:50 AM

Ok, I heard that PCB was saying that you can copy a CD, well now they are trying to make it so all of the songs are hidden, so you can't make copies anymore. Have you heard about this? I was trying to make a copy of a CD, I got all the songs on the computer, and then the last song said *Hidden File*, you could listen to it, but after you tried to put it on another CD it wouldn't go on there. And yes, this was for my own personal use, if you were wondering.:)

I think it IS stealing. Period.:)

Kfamr

11-24-2003, 11:55 AM

There's a Tupac CD of mine that has a hidden song on it, I've copied it onto my computer and onto another CD (because I like to make mix CD's of all my favorite songs on each CD) and it came out fine. So, I doubt that's going to stop anyone.

Besides, You can "un-hide" hidden files. I believe that's just so people can't download that file off your computer.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
we all have our own opinions and while you say you dont do this, you must have done something illegal before?
Ky and Rio

I've broken laws before. As I said, I've been known to speed on Coal ave.

and yes, I've downloaded. I have not since the naptster lawsuits. Since the courts determined legally that it was stealing.

Yes, I've personally broken laws, my point is, don't rationalize it, just see it for what it is. :)

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by babolaypo65
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think Sam Walton makes too much money, adn I think toaster ovens are too expensive. Therefore I can go to Walmart and take a toaster oven without paying for it.

you dont seen toaster manufactors making millions of dollers each year for doing pratically NOTHING :rolleyes: .... but whatever floats your boat.

micki76

11-24-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
you dont seen toaster manufactors making millions of dollers each year :rolleyes: .... but whatever floats your boat.

Well, of course they do or they wouldn’t be in business. They make a good profit, but they also have costs that every manufacturer incurs. Those include packaging, advertising, costs of theft, damaged goods, lost shipments, payroll, etc.

Hopefully many manufacturers will make profits, but they all have costs too.

Because they make millions, doesn’t make stealing right. Theft is theft, whether you steal a pack of gum from a homeless person or a million dollars from a bank.

2kitties

11-24-2003, 12:44 PM

What is this idea that it is okay to steal from someone who makes alot of money? That is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Guess what, they are talented people who make alot of money. Doctors are smart people who went to school for years and made alot of money. Lottery winners are just damn lucky and have alot of money. But you don't have the right to steal from anybody- no matter what they have.
Go out and make your own damn money and stop stealing.:mad:

binka_nugget

11-24-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I have a cd burner lol, but I dont know how to use them lol my brother does it for me. I think ppl in the music buisness get paid too much anyways, so Why not burn cds. they have millions of dollers anyways. meh ...

Actually, they don't get paid much for the cd's they sell. The recording artist I talked to said that even famous groups like Destiny's Child lose money when they release a cd. I think she said they only recieve a couple cents per cd. The rest of the money goes to the company that signs them. She also said that a majority of their money comes from touring and promoting for other people. :)

I think (for the most part), downloading music is stealing. It's whether or not you care (or even admit it).

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by binka_nugget
I think (for the most part), downloading music is stealing. It's whether or not you care (or even admit it).

I dont care, I admit that lol. I dont care if I burn a cd or download a movie. I mean common I am not going to go out and buy a new CD for 25$ when it only has one song on it that I like on it. What is the point, there isnt any... Sooooo, you pay for the internet, and use a dowloading process and download music then burn it on a blank CD. tell the stores to stop selling the damn blank rewritable cds if you dont want ppl to burn music onto them. :rolleyes:.

popcornbird

11-24-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by trayi52
I am sorry to bring this up, but when you buy a computer game, you can make a backup of it in case something happens to the original CD, but you can use it on only one computer. Even if you bought it and you own it, you still have to buy different games to put on a different computer. Companies like Microsoft consider it stealing if you put it on more than one computer. If you are going to use it on another computer, then like the schools that run a certain program, then you have to pay extra for that too.
Read the labels. If it says you can share it then it is okay.
If you notice with the new operating system XP, it is only allowed to be used on one computer, you buy the system, install it on your computer and then try installing it on another computer.

I use the copy on my computer........the one where I installed the original CD, and the original we use anywhere. I don't think there's anything wrong with it if we make a duplicate of something we bought, and don't share it with ANYONE other than ourselves. We bought it. :p But I've only done this to like two games anyway. :p At least I hope there's nothing wrong with it. I would hate to do something *wrong*. :o

2kitties

11-24-2003, 01:08 PM

great. another teen with no regard for the difference between right and wrong. Just what we need.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 01:08 PM

Exactly Tikeyasmom they make its so easy, its on a plate for people to take!
ok so its stealing from artist who "dont" make alot of money, but they DO make alot more money than i and some others who burn CD's!
its not doing any harm really!
Ky and rio

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by 2kitties
great. another teen with no regard for the difference between right and wrong. Just what we need. I know the difference between right and wrong but i dont think burning a mix cd is wrong because it isnt IMO..

2kitties

11-24-2003, 01:13 PM

Nobody said anything about burning a mix cd. That is legal. It is not legal, though, if you've stolen the music.

And Ky, your logic is just backward. You continue to argue over and over ad nausea that it is okay to steal so long as it is easy. You want to do whatever you want and lay the blame on everyone else.
Thieves can be thieves all they want- but take responsibility for your actions.
At least T_M admits she knows it's wrong but doesn't care. So, if busted, I assume she'll own up to her actions and take responsiblity. You'll just continue to hunt for someone else to blame.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 01:23 PM

I never said that it is someone else's fault, i was stateing that it is easy for anyone to do it!
I do amitt that i burn CD's for a copy for myself and SOMETIMES for a friend! IF i was caught i would admitt it!!
you dont know me and what i would do if i was caught, so you are just assuming AGAIN of what i would do!
Did you read my words saying "it is ok to steal"? NO because a wrote no such thing!!
Ky and Rio

2kitties

11-24-2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
its not doing any harm really!
Ky and rio

In this post and most of your posts, you say it is okay to steal. Just like in the above quote. Reread your own posts, Ky, very carefully this time.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
Exactly Tikeyasmom they make its so easy, its on a plate for people to take!
ok so its stealing from artist who "dont" make alot of money, but they DO make alot more money than i and some others who burn CD's!
its not doing any harm really!
Ky and rio

How do you know it isn't doing any harm? Are there not folks whose job it is to mix the cd, the sound engineers, the producers, directors.... someone to press the CD, to package it, to market it? You take from all of their incomes. The artist earns less than he would if you hadnt stolen his music, the fellow in Tower records earns less money than he would had you bought the music. The mom and pop store earns less money.

I don't mean to be rude but I find the argument that it's easy, therefore excuseable, to be laughable.
If someone leaves a briefcase on their front step for a moment it would be so easy for me to take it. I could do it in 5 seconds, and aren't they really asking for it, after all, being so irresponsible??

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 01:36 PM

Ok sorry 2kitties i did say it wasnt doing any harm! but i didnt say that it makes it right!
ok since if had a computor i have mixed 3 CD's (which i have brought) for my own use, copyed 1 of my mixed CD's (which i made) for a friend, copy 2 CD's for my gran (which she to brought), so out of all the CD's ive burnt have ALL been payed for!
it is illegal, its is easy to do, it does not make it excusable, i would take punishment for my crime, i will buy more CD's mix them and keep them!
Ky and Rio

2kitties

11-24-2003, 01:38 PM

I quit Ky. I don't know how many times I have to say this.
If you buy the cd and make a mix for yourself- you have broken no laws. If you steal music to make your mixes, however, you have broken a law. You also can't copy your cds to give to other people.

I give up.

popcornbird

11-24-2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by 2kitties
I quit Ky. I don't know how many times I have to say this.
If you buy the cd and make a mix for yourself- you have broken no laws. If you steal music to make your mixes, however, you have broken a law. You also can't copy your cds to give to other people.

I give up.

That's why I don't think what I do is illegal. I buy a CD and make a copy for myself...........no one else touches it. :p If I were making copies for friends.....now THAT would be illegal. I wouldn't do that, although more than half the world does. :rolleyes:

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 02:02 PM

2kitties you dont have to repeat yourself, i "herd" you the first time!
so out of all this i did 1 thing illegal (which i was not aware of, i am now,lol) thats i giving a burned CD away!
so thats it 1 thing all this arguing, sheesh
Ky and Rio

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by popcornbird
That's why I don't think what I do is illegal. I buy a CD and make a copy for myself...........no one else touches it. :p If I were making copies for friends.....now THAT would be illegal. I wouldn't do that, although more than half the world does. :rolleyes:

exactly, when you buy a cd you buy that right. to make an archive copy for yourself.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 02:51 PM

ok i get it now!!!
im not the only one whos done it and there are far worse things in the world than burning CD's!
such as animal neglect!
Ky and Rio

Cataholic

11-24-2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
ok i get it now!!!
im not the only one whos done it and there are far worse things in the world than burning CD's!
such as animal neglect!
Ky and Rio

I may be making a mistake, as I am having quite a difficult time following your LANGUAGE (and, you do speak English primarily, don't you?), but, the argument above is NONSENSE.

If everyone in the world was jumping off the bridge into the ocean, would you do it too? I can just see you saying to a judge, "Well, my friends Tom, Dick and Harry do it....and, it isn't as bad as killing someone....."

Where did you learn this type of logic? You can dress it up, take it out to dinner, but, it is still stealing.

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 03:19 PM

I guess Rio, that folks are getting frustrated because you are so adamant about defending your right to do it.

I'll leave you to your rationalizations now, and shant pick on you further.
:D

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 03:37 PM

you can pick on me all you like, im not the type of person to go off crying about it!
I was not saying that I have the right to do it, i was just saying that i did do it (in ignorance the first nd last time becasue i didnt know)
catoholic why do you find it hard to understand me?
Ky and Rio

2kitties

11-24-2003, 04:27 PM

She can't understand you because you don't use spell check or any form of accepted rules of grammer. I'm not picking on you, we all understood you when you said you have a disability. But please understand that your thoughts are impossible to follow. They're difficult because the posts are hard to read, but also because they contradict themselves and because you seem to post without thoroughly reading the other posts in the thread.

I'm the world's worst typist. If I don't use a spell check, you'd never read anything I type. We all have to recheck ourselves.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 04:35 PM

ok im just typing this to see if and how i can get a spelling checker!
ok i dont read my post before i post them!
where is the spell checker?
i want it now :(
Ky and Rio

Dogz

11-24-2003, 04:40 PM

Ky- You don't need to argue. There is NOTHING to argue about. OK? You KNOW it is wrong. It is WRONG to steal music and then burn a cd. That is all there is to it.:rolleyes:

Cataholic

11-24-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
catoholic why do you find it hard to understand me?
Ky and Rio

The spelling, lack of punctuation, and lack of sentance structure. I just can't determine where one thought stops and another starts.

Rio and Me

11-24-2003, 05:09 PM

sorry!!

Dogz

11-24-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
sorry!!

No problem.:)

popcornbird

11-24-2003, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Rio and Me
you can pick on me all you like, im not the type of person to go off crying about it!
I was not saying that I have the right to do it, i was just saying that i did do it (in ignorance the first nd last time becasue i didnt know)
catoholic why do you find it hard to understand me?
Ky and Rio

I don't think Cataholic meant to pick on you. :( I know you have a disability, but not everyone knows that, so sometimes its hard to understand exactly what you're saying. I know you try your best though! Do you have Microsoft Word? If you type your posts there before posting them, it can check the spelling and grammer....and you can fix it and then post it. :) Good luck!

trayi52

11-24-2003, 06:47 PM

Just want to repeat something here:

Originally posted by Karen

Be Nice
Just a word to everyone, new and old.

When someone new comes, be nice to them. Assume the best until proven otherwise. Do not assume anyone has bad intentions, is someone else "in disguise" or is a bad person just because you do not yet know them. And if there is someone here - even someone who has been here a long time - that you do not like, then please avoid that person's threads, or at least try to look at each one as a new start. People learn, people grow, and we can help each other do so!

Pet Talk is meant to be a friendly, welcoming place. We are all here because we love animals, love pets. Let us extend that to our fellow human beings, and be kind to each other.

If you are thinking of posting something unkind or hurtful, remember, that may be the first impression someone will get of Pet Talk.

I am not saying we cannot have heartfelt discussions, debates or disagreements, I am just saying we should be polite when we do.

I want Pet Talk to be the happiest place for pet-loving people it can be!

I just read that in another forum.:)

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
Ky- You don't need to argue. There is NOTHING to argue about. OK? You KNOW it is wrong. It is WRONG to steal music and then burn a cd. That is all there is to it.:rolleyes:

I dont think it is wrong that is why I do it lol.

Dogz

11-24-2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I dont think it is wrong that is why I do it lol.
It MUST be wrong, it is AGAINST THE LAW.

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
It MUST be wrong, it is AGAINST THE LAW.

everytime I talk about it in public I dont get in trouble.
It must not be that bad

I do it because I want to and I dont think it is bad, I dont consider it stealing.

Dogz

11-24-2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
everytime I talk about it in public I dont get in trouble.
It must not be that bad

I do it because I want to and I dont think it is bad, I dont consider it stealing.

IT IS STEALING. But whatever Jynelle.:rolleyes:

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
IT IS STEALING. But whatever Jynelle.:rolleyes:

I dont think it is, I am not TAKING anything, and My parents dont care lol. But whatever Emma

Dogz

11-24-2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I dont think it is, I am not TAKING anything, and My parents dont care lol. But whatever Emma

Ugh.:rolleyes: You are TAKING music without paying for it. That IS stealing. Get it through your head.

I give up though.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 08:37 PM

I sense that we've beaten this topic dead.

tikeyas_mom

11-24-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
Ugh.:rolleyes: You are TAKING music without paying for it. That IS stealing. Get it through your head.

I give up though.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am paying for it, I am paying for the blank cd, and the internet so uh!

Dogz

11-24-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I am paying for it, I am paying for the blank cd, and the internet so uh!
Like I said on AIM: but the people that MAKE the cds, don't get any money out of this.
So it is stealing from THEM. If you get sued, I could care less. If you don't think so, I don't care.:)

babolaypo65

11-24-2003, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I am paying for it, I am paying for the blank cd, and the internet so uh!

...and neither of those fees go to the people who made the music.

Okay, I'm done here. It's illegal, you can ignore it, and pretend it isn't but it is.
You can rationalize it all you'd like, it will still be illegal. Again I personally don't care if you break the law or not, it just blows my noggin how stubbornly you rationalize it.

okay, I'm officially done. Have at it.

micki76

11-24-2003, 09:35 PM

Ever feel like you’re talking to a brick wall? LOL

Dogz

11-24-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by micki76
Ever feel like you’re talking to a brick wall? LOL

:confused: LOL :confused:

popcornbird

11-24-2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Dogz
:confused: LOL :confused:

She means..........talking to someone constantly about the same thing and getting the same response.......like it didn't go through. Kind of like a brick wall isn't it? ;) I'm not going to say anything to Tikeyas mom....I think she should have gotten the message by now. I'm with everyone........its wrong, its illegal, its stealing, and that's that. :D

Dogz

11-24-2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by popcornbird
She means..........talking to someone constantly about the same thing and getting the same response.......like it didn't go through. Kind of like a brick wall isn't it? ;) I'm not going to say anything to Tikeyas mom....I think she should have gotten the message by now. I'm with everyone........its wrong, its illegal, its stealing, and that's that. :D
Oh, I get it hehehe.:p

CathyBogart

11-25-2003, 12:55 AM

Hey, BACK OFF everyone! People are going to download music no matter how much we argue about it here.

Many things are against the law that a lot of people don't consider wrong. I could bring up one example that comes to mind, but it's inappropriate for this forum. *Chuckles*

Again, it's going to happen no matter what, so harping on a few members who aren't ashamed to admit that they download music is going to change nothing.

How's this...I have upwards of $1k worth of downloaded SOFTWARE on my computer. Photoshop, Premiere... Heck, my copy of Windows 2k! Even my AIM client is one that I downloaded off of Kazaa to avoid a fee.

Windows 2k Pro: $148
Adope Photoshop: $619.99
Adobe Premiere Pro: $699.99

OK everyone, time to change targets and bash on MEEE!! 'Cause I DON'T CARE! BWAHAHAHAHA! I'm not using any of these programs to make any money, just for my own pleasure and enjoyment.

Shelteez2

11-25-2003, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by WolfChan
OK everyone, time to change targets and bash on MEEE!! 'Cause I DON'T CARE! BWAHAHAHAHA! I'm not using any of these programs to make any money, just for my own pleasure and enjoyment.

I don't think anyone in this thread has a problem with those who admit that they do it, as long as they fully know that it's illegal.
I think the problem lies within those not admitting that what they are doing is illegal.

As for doing illegal things, I'm sure we all have at one time or another. Look up your state and see if you've broken any laws ;)
http://www.dumblaws.com/states/index.html

trayi52

11-25-2003, 01:29 AM

WolfChan,
My point exactly, it seems everything we do is being scrutinized by somebody, somewhere.

Shelteez2,
Another good point, I think I will check that link out. Sounds like an interesting subject, I just hope spitting on the sidewalk is not against the law. Of course TN probably has all sorts of funny laws. LOL.
:D

IttyBittyKitty

11-25-2003, 05:09 AM

Let's tone down the vitriol shall we? Regardless of what the record companies may think, downloading and burning music for your own use (as opposed to running a warez site or interface) is NOT a criminal offence (at least in Australia), it is a civil offence. So, everyone should stop treating those who do it as dirty criminals! Save it, please, for the animal abusers, murderers and rapists - those who truly deserve it.

Everyone should remember the simple caveat, especially those of a religious background: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Translated: Let he or she who has NEVER committed a summary offence, broken a by-law or contravened a school rule throw the first stone. And, let he whose grammar and spelling is perfect be the first to cast a stone at someone with a disability!

Originally posted by Dogz
It MUST be wrong, it is AGAINST THE LAW.

It seems some of us are confusing morals with the law of the land! Occasionally, what is morally "wrong" in the eyes of most also happens to be illegal, e.g. murder. On the flip side, no one would agree that men should be able to film their female flatmates without their knowledge. This was legal (via a loophole) here until legal precedent paved way for a civil trial (yes, civil, not criminal!). Also, it is perfectly legal, for example, for an unmarried adult aged 18 and above to engage in coition with another unmarried adult - yet many young adults on this board would not do so unless they were married.

For the religious amongst you, if Bush made it illegal for you to practice your religion, would you continue to do so? Of course! Other people, also, follow their own moral code even if it contravenes the law. Does this make murder right, you ask, if it is not against the law? Of course not, and the law will deal with a murderer swiftly. As it will a 12 year old mp3 thief!

But there is a little thing called "free will" ... and can our law enforecement officers stop worrying about a few teenagers stealing music and start catching the murderers and rapists? Sheesh.