Signs she's going into heat?

[My Peanuts]

My vet told us that we could spay Sylvia when she was 6 months old, but if it was his puppy he would wait till the first heat. We really trust him so we are waiting for her first heat to take her in. Don't worry, she is never out of our sight and Harley is already altered so she won't get pregnant. Anyway, are there any signs that she will be in heat soon. It looks like her genitalia is swelling a little. She isn't acting sick, so I wasn't worried about the swelling. The swelling could also be me being paranoid. Is this a sign that she will be in heat soon??

[tikeyas_mom]

you really should get her spayed befor she goes into her first heat. If you get her spayed after her first heat she will be 70% more likely to develop cancer in her overies as she gets older :(:(:(... please spay her asap. WE are spaying our *almost* 5 month old great dane this friday. There must be a vet around your area that will spay at 5 months... Mine does..

[pitc9]

This point can be talked about till were ALL blue in the face!
Everyone will make there points and share there thoughts, listen to them all, and make your own choice! The MOST important thing is that like you said, she does not get out and hook up with some young stud!!!:D

I had an appt to get Sierra fixed when she was 6 months, but went into heat one week before the appt. So we had to wait, she's only 2 1/2 now. As far as the swelling ... yes, I noticed that with Sierra.

[lv4dogs]

YES spayine BEFORE the first heat greatly reduces the risk of cancer in BOTH the ovaries & the mamrary glands as well.

Personally I would seek another vet if I was told that.

[lv4dogs]

Spaying after the first heat MAY help with her growing body (mostly in larger dogs) but cancers are greatly greatly reduced.

Signs of going into heat may include one or more of the following and possibly other behavioral signs: swelling, bleeding, the nipples may enlarge, she may be more clingy or more distant, not wanting to listen, wanting to roam, wanting her butt area touched more, putting her butt in other dogs faces.

Even though your male is neutered he still can easily notice the signs & smells she produces, he may start to mount her & be close to her, follow her.

[lv4dogs]

smaller dogs USSUALLY go into heat later than larger dogs, tiny dogs ussually go into heat around 7-9 months some tiny ones may not even go into heat until a year of age, larger dogs ussually go into heat around 5-6.5 months.
Sylvia is a pug & is 8 months? she should go into heat around now.

[micki76]

Originally posted by lv4dogs
YES spayine BEFORE the first heat greatly reduces the risk of cancer in BOTH the ovaries & the mamrary glands as well.

Personally I would seek another vet if I was told that.

I would too. What an old fashioned idea. It will greatly reduce the chances if cancer if done early.

They are spaying puppies and kittens at very early ages now. Aly's former foster Piper was spayed around halloween and she was, I think (?), approx 3 mos. Her foster boy, Sebastian was neutered even earlier.

[Amber]

We got Katie spayed when she was 6 months old. I hope you get your dog spayed though soon. *Which I know you will! :)* I have no clues for sighs for dogs, but I do know some for cats.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
you really should get her spayed befor she goes into her first heat. If you get her spayed after her first heat she will be 70% more likely to develop cancer in her overies as she gets older :(:(:(... please spay her asap. WE are spaying our *almost* 5 month old great dane this friday. There must be a vet around your area that will spay at 5 months... Mine does..

Umm if she's spayed, no matter what age, she won't have ovaries.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
Umm if she's spayed, no matter what age, she won't have ovaries.

Really? I was under the assumption that they left the ovaries for estrogen, since lack of estrogen can cause incontinence. That’s one of the main reasons human Dr’s leave the ovaries in women, for the estrogen benefits.

[My Peanuts]

Ok, I'm not going to even mess with something like cancer! Right after the first reply from tikeyas_mom I called the vet and took the earliest available appointment. Sylvia is going to be spayed and microchipped on December 2nd. Thanks for all your help everyone. I'm sure I'll be posting on this subject in about a week and a half because I'm already nervous for her. :(

[micki76]

Originally posted by My Peanuts
Ok, I'm not going to even mess with something like cancer! Right after the first reply from tikeyas_mom I called the vet and took the earliest available appointment. Sylvia is going to be spayed and microchipped on December 2nd. Thanks for all your help everyone. I'm sure I'll be posting on this subject in about a week and a half because I'm already nervous for her. :(

So glad to hear that you've already made the appointment. Try not to worry too much (though I did with Chester) and let us know as soon as she's out! I'll be saying a prayer on the 2nd for Sylvia. :)

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by micki76
Really? I was under the assumption that they left the ovaries for estrogen, since lack of estrogen can cause incontinence. That’s one of the main reasons human Dr’s leave the ovaries in women, for the estrogen benefits.
Well I was under the impression that they took everything out. ??
Hmm now I'm off to do some research.

[Shelteez2]

The surgeon makes a small incision on her abdomen (belly area) and removes the two ovaries and uterus, usually just above the cervix. All vessels and tissues are ligated (tied off) to prevent bleeding and lessen chances of post-operative bleeding or infection. Once the ovaries and uterus are removed, the surgeon begins the closure of the body wall and skin -- muscle, subcutaneous, and skin are sutured (stitched) back together

I got this from this site:
http://vetmedicine.about.com/library/weekly/aa100500a.htm

[K9soul]

I remember my vet advising that Tasha be spayed asap, and she was spayed at 5 months. I worried too and I swear I was in tears on the way home cause it was the first time I had ever "left" her somewhere and she had cried as I walked away from her. She couldn't have understood I wasn't leaving her. It broke my heart.

We all got through it just fine though. :)

[Pam]

In my 30+ years of having dogs I have had 4 females and have gone to two separate vets because of where we were living at the different times. Both vets encouraged us to spay before the first heat. I am just curious as to why your vet wanted to wait. Maybe you could ask him/her when you take Sylvia in just to satisfy our curiosity. I am glad you are taking Sylvia sooner rather than later. We will be thinking of your little sweetie on the 2nd!

[Twisterdog]

Waiting until after the first heat to spay has NO medical documentation behind it. It's basically an "old wive's tale" of the doggie world.

There is an argument that spaying later, after growth is complete, is better for dogs, especially large breeds. While this has never been proven, it at least has some basis in logic. Waiting until after the first heat has NO basis in logic, as the dog is still growing at six months.

I, personally, would be very, very disappointed if my vet believed this.

Ovaries and uterus are both removed in a spay. Ovaries are often left in human hysterectomies to avoid calcium loss that leads to osteporosis, as well as the onset of symptoms produced by reduced estrogen levels, such as chin hairs for example, that most human females are NOT happy to see. This isn't a problem with female dogs, however, their chins are already hairy. Hence .. out with the ovaries!

Some dogs do suffer spay incontinence, but it is a fairly rare condidtion. I have never had a dog with spay incontinence, and I've had dozens and dozens of female foster/rescue dogs spayed. If it does occur, an estrogen pill once or twice a week solves the problem in the vast majority of cases.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
This isn't a problem with female dogs, however, their chins are already hairy. Hence .. out with the ovaries!

Some dogs do suffer spay incontinence, but it is a fairly rare condidtion. I have never had a dog with spay incontinence, and I've had dozens and dozens of female foster/rescue dogs spayed. If it does occur, an estrogen pill once or twice a week solves the problem in the vast majority of cases.

Ha! And I have to take an estrogen pill every day to prevent those chinny chin chin hairs!

NOT fair! :D

[amoore]

My vet wants to spay tiny at 5 months old . she is now 5months and two weeks old . Im just dreading her having pain , and being with out her . I somtimes wonder if i would like to keep her where she can have puppys. I have no male dogs here . I mostly want her to be at no risk . I really don't know signs to look for . I do worry when i take her out she is sniffing bushes and trees . That worrys me .
I think that was a very good question to ask . Thank you because i need to know to . :confused:

[My Peanuts]

I have another question. We got Harley from a shelter when he was about one and already fully mature. When we adopted him the shelter altered him before we took him home. Are there any adverse effects from altering a male dog that is already matured?

[micki76]

Originally posted by My Peanuts
I have another question. We got Harley from a shelter when he was about one and already fully mature. When we adopted him the shelter altered him before we took him home. Are there any adverse effects from altering a male dog that is already matured?

I don’t think there are any adverse effects from a late neuter. All his plumbing is gone, so I don’t think there’s anything that could become cancerous with regards to the male reproductive organs.

[lv4dogs]

Originally posted by My Peanuts
I have another question. We got Harley from a shelter when he was about one and already fully mature. When we adopted him the shelter altered him before we took him home. Are there any adverse effects from altering a male dog that is already matured?

Isn't the colon still left? I know that it is common for un-altered dogs to get colon cancer, so if the colon is still left then yes there is still a chance they can develope colon cancer. But for altering a male dog 1 yr of age will not up the chances of cancer too much than if they were 6 months.

[lv4dogs]

Originally posted by amoore
My vet wants to spay tiny at 5 months old . she is now 5months and two weeks old . Im just dreading her having pain , and being with out her . I somtimes wonder if i would like to keep her where she can have puppys. I have no male dogs here . I mostly want her to be at no risk . I really don't know signs to look for . I do worry when i take her out she is sniffing bushes and trees . That worrys me .
I think that was a very good question to ask . Thank you because i need to know to . :confused:

You will have a lot more chances of encountering risks if whe were to be kept in-tact, cancers of a few sorts, pyometra, birthing problems (especially if timy gets loose & encounters a much bigger dog!!!).
There is ussually not much pain from being spayed, it's more like discomfort than pain. Some dogs have higher pain tollerance, my dogs were always wnating to run right after the surgery. Some may be in slight pain/discomfort for a day or two but that is ussually it. And you only have to leave your dog for the day so you won't be seperated that long.
Please do not breed unless you want to better the breed, then your tiny would have to be a perfect example of the breed w/ many tests preformed & the same w/ the male. Do you know how many unwanted animals are being put to sleep EVERYDAY? What happens if her puppys are given to home that does not properly care for them or they decide they do not want them anymore & they end up at the shelter or in line for euthanasia juice?
I am not trying to be rude just that there are way too many homeless animals out there already & way to many improperly breed animals as well.
My list can go on & on if you want more info let me know, this is just the tip of the iceburg!
Because she is so tiny (recent pic?) she PROBABLY won't go into heat until around 7 months BUT IT IS POSSIBLE anytime now. The longer you wait to spay her the greater the chances of health problems occuring!
Look at my sig.

[My Peanuts]

Originally posted by lv4dogs
Please do not breed unless you want to better the breed, then your tiny would have to be a perfect example of the breed w/ many tests preformed & the same w/ the male. Do you know how many unwanted animals are being put to sleep EVERYDAY? What happens if her puppys are given to home that does not properly care for them or they decide they do not want them anymore & they end up at the shelter or in line for euthanasia juice?
I am not trying to be rude just that there are way too many homeless animals out there already & way to many improperly breed animals as well.


I completely agree

[micki76]

Seriously amoore, please have Tiny spayed. Pyometra is very often fatal and the dog is usually in serious condition before the owners even get her to the vet. Not to mention the mess of her cycles. Most dogs won’t wear the panties and pads and it’s just gross. Imagine her menstruating on your furniture, carpets, and floors. I know she’s small so there won’t be that much blood, but yuck!

I didn’t want to be without Chester either, and I worried the whole time he was gone. But he came home safe and sound. Just verify that your vet uses the latest technology and that Tiny will be in good hands before hand.

[amoore]

Thank you for the advice ,I don't think It would be hard to find homes for her puppys since she is a small full blooded registered chihuahua , I like to have not got her ! I called every Chihuahua breeder when I decided I It was time I got one ,They were already sold . Then i went to a ladys house where my vet sent me to ,(he told me she was selling her last dog ) Tiny came running to me like she was expecting me ! I fell in love with her right there on the spot ! I had been wanting a chihuahua all my life ! dreamed of holding her . I have had several sweet little homelss dogs that people dumped in front of my house , so i agree with you about homeless dogs . I always got them fixed as soon as they could be ,because it is so hard to find homes for them . So I really don't know the signs of a dog going into heat !
People has told me not to get tiny fixed because she is a tiny unusual color chihuahua and of course they are asking for her babies !
I can't risk her getting sick . So Im going to get her spayed as soon as I get the nerve to leave her . I have not been away from her for more than 3hrs since I got her . I thank you very much for helping me with the tough decission . The last thing i want is for her to suffer . She is my baby .:eek:

[amoore]

Thanks all of you , for the advice , Im just a worrier . when I got jojo fixed the vet was ready to start hanging up on me , I was a big pest ! I appreciate all your good advice . Tiny is just so tiny ! I had no idea a chihuahua could worry me like this ! Every time she makes little sound of pain I jump to check her ! I think I been looking for an excuse to not take her to get her spayed because I don't want to leave her ! Im terrible !

[Twisterdog]

I think I been looking for an excuse to not take her to get her spayed because I don't want to leave her !

Better to leave her for less than a day, than risk her death. Pyometra is a very real, very serious disease. Ovarian/uterus cancer is common, and often deadly. And, because you can never be 100% sure, 100% careful 100% of the time ... what if she did get pregnant? What if it was a much bigger dog? What if she died having the puppies? Get her spayed, potentially save her life.

[mahayana]

Just wanted to say that Tiny will be spayed in the next few weeks. Amoore has been encouraged to breed her to another white chihuahua by many of Tiny's admirers, but has never wanted to be a dog breeder. Tiny only goes outside on a leash and there are no male dogs here.

The discussion on when to spay or neuter is interesting. I think everyone agrees that this is the responsible thing to do.

And small dogs can and do get bred by large ones. We know someone now whose Shitzu got bred by a Rottwiler. Not a pleasant circumstance to contemplate!

On the other hand, we loved our Schnauzer-Beagle mix, but Snoopy was sure funny-looking!

[amoore]

When did this change from" signs she's going into heat ?" into amoore is a irresponsible dog owner ? Did anyone read my post ?
:confused:

[lv4dogs]

Originally posted by amoore
When did this change from" signs she's going into heat ?" into amoore is a irresponsible dog owner ? Did anyone read my post ?
:confused:

We never said you were irresponsible, you asked our opinions & we gave them, forgive me if I mis-read your post but I did read it a few times before replying to it.

who is mahayana? Just wondering as they replied for you as it seems?

Anyways if it is true your are spaying Tiny I want to congradulate you on doing so! And wish you the best of luck!


Thank you for the advice ,I don't think It would be hard to find homes for her puppys since she is a small full blooded registered chihuahua , I like to have not got her ! I called every Chihuahua breeder when I decided I It was time I got one ,They were already sold . Then i went to a ladys house where my vet sent me to ,(he told me she was selling her last dog ) Tiny came running to me like she was expecting me ! I fell in love with her right there on the spot ! I had been wanting a chihuahua all my life ! dreamed of holding her . I have had several sweet little homelss dogs that people dumped in front of my house , so i agree with you about homeless dogs . I always got them fixed as soon as they could be ,because it is so hard to find homes for them . So I really don't know the signs of a dog going into heat !

Also if Tiny came from a reputable breeder & was a very well breed & her color is that "unusual" than I am sure the breeder would of kept her for breeding purposes or AT LEAST have you sign some sort of contract (which most reputable breeders do even w/ pet dogs). She is awful pretty but I have seen chi's that color quite often. She is a cutie though! :p

[amoore]

The breeder was going out of dog bussiness into babysiting . I have her akc papers . Tinys colors are not seen so comen here . I paid plenty for her .
My husband did reply because he knows im very protective of her .
Ill be sure not to ask questions on here again . If im only going to get put downs ,

[micki76]

Unless a post was deleted, I don’t see anyone saying you are not responsible amoore. We just want the best for Tiny and for the dog population. I too have seen some chi’s with Tiny’s coloring, but that doesn’t make her any less special to you! :D And it doesn’t make her any less special to Pet Talk.

I’m very glad that you’re getting her spayed. I knew you would once you were given the possibilities of harm to her health. :) I also understand your fear that something could happen to her in surgery. I was sooo afraid for Chester, cause I had always heard that small dogs were more susceptible to the anesthesia, but I questioned his doctor thoroughly and he made me feel a lot better and I felt that Ches was in good hands.

[lv4dogs]

I am sorry you feel that way after all we are only trying to help & voicing OUR OPINIONS. We only have the dogs best interest in mind & heart. And yours as well just letting you know that it is ussually safer to spay. It reduces many many risks.

I was not aware that was your husband I just wondering who it was. thats why i asked.

She is a cutie & I wish you the best of luck no matter what you decide. I just hope that if you breed her you wait until she is 2 years of age, test for all medical possibilities (not quite sure what is common w/ chi's) but find out & do tests & x-rays. Also do bloodwork to make sure no signs of diabetes or anything of the sorts. All medical tests should be done at 2 years of age as that is when most problems are detecible. I do believe they should have eye tests of some sorts done. Also make sure the male you breed her w/ has the same testing done. And if you are breeding for color there is a good chance that you may end up w/ totally different colors. And please contact the breeder you got her from if you do not already have ALL of her history & her parents history (which should include registrations for the breed, akc papers, all vet paper work & test results, any showing titles etc etc.) please talk this over w/ the breeeder as well as the vet. And please screen all potential owners for the pups when the pups do arive & visit their potential homes etc. Also make up a contract w/ the owners to be.

Good luck. Puppies sure are cute & cuddly.

[micki76]

Originally posted by mahayana
Just wanted to say that Tiny will be spayed in the next few weeks. Amoore has been encouraged to breed her to another white chihuahua by many of Tiny's admirers, but has never wanted to be a dog breeder.
I think everyone agrees that this is the responsible thing to do.

They’ve already said that she’ll be spayed in the coming weeks.

[amoore]

Im sorry That I went haywire about tiny , but when I say she is my baby I really mean it ! She is the baby I planned for her
for years ! I get books from librarys on chihuahuas and they scare me how easy it is for one to die . Im very protective towards her ! I am like a mother with a human baby . I get offended if any one implys I would let her get hurt !
As far as the owner she is the first one that sujested i go into breeding . Hey she is my baby ! If i got her bred I know I would want to keep them ,for myself . Tiny is a handful already I have let my house and garden go because I don't want to leave her for very long . I have always been a responsible pet owner . My sister in law has decided that she does not like me cause we would not come to colorado and visit with her cause she wanted me to put my animals in the garage and not in the room she offered for us if we came there . I never ask her to put her human children in a garage !
I would have screened my son-in-laws if my daughter would have permited ! but after humans are 18yrs old thats hard to do ! LOL!
:eek: Thank you micki76 for your nice words . Im just waiting a few more weeks cause she is so small .:(

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by amoore

I would have screened my son-in-laws if my daughter would have permited ! but after humans are 18yrs old thats hard to do ! LOL!
:eek: Thank you micki76 for your nice words . Im just waiting a few more weeks cause she is so small .:(

it doesnt make a difference if the spay her and she is small. I have been to the vet befor for many job shadows and seen kittens get spayed, I bet your tiny isnt that big of a difference. you should really get her spayed asap. Just because her breed is naturally small doesnt mean you can use that as an excuse to not get her spayed. .... . My great dane is 5 months almost and she is getting spayed tomorrow.... Vets know how to do their job so let them, and get your tiny spayed.

[amoore]

Tiny is my baby . I will know when she is ready . :rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

Yes, get her spayed and find a different vet! :) I hope everything goes well.

Shelteez is right, they remove the ovaries and the uterus. However, sometimes a hysterectomy is performed (the same thing they do to human females) and they will just cut the falopian tubes. It isn't always fool proof though. It can actually heal itself and the dog will still bleed. :eek:

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by amoore
Tiny is my baby . I will know when she is ready . :rolleyes:

i dont mean to sound rude, but you dont know when she is ready. A vet will. I really hope you get her spayed by the time she reached 5 months old. because if she goes into her first heat and ends up getting cancer, you will be kicking your self. JMHO.

[Samantha Puppy]

Samantha was spayed when she was approximately 6-7 months old and before her first heat. My vet also told me the chances of cancer are greatly decreased if you have her spayed before the first heat. I've never heard of anyone telling someone to wait until after. :(

[trayi52]

I agee you will know when she is ready and when you are ready. I like you worry about whether they are going to die on the table. The vet I talked to said that it is the waking up that they worry about, and when they wake up, then you can start feeling better.:)

[wolfsoul]

Just wanted to point out that most dogs will go through their heats 3-7 days before they start to bleed.

[trayi52]

Sometimes it is hard to tell when they are coming in heat, they stay in heat for 21 days, and are what you would call standing heat on about the 7th or 9th day. Some bleed a lot some don't bleed that much. 21 days is a long time isn't it?:)

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
[B]it doesnt make a difference if the spay her and she is small. I have been to the vet befor for many job shadows and seen kittens get spayed, I bet your tiny isnt that big of a difference. B]
That's true. Some vets (for reasons I don't know) prefer to spay smaller dogs.

[trayi52]

wolfsoul
I wonder about that too, they would rather spay a smaller dog? Looks like it would be harder don't it? I mean all these tiny insides and then the larger dogs, looks like everything would be in plain sight? LOL. The vets around here go by the size of the dog, the larger the dog the more it cost. Do they do that where you live? I keep looking at my Rottweiler and thinking wow how much are they going to charge me for her, more money than I can come up with. Thats what I get for living in a small town I guess, and living on a fixed income.:confused: :)

[wolfsoul]

Yes, the vets here will make you charge extra if you're dog is alot larger or is overweight or has other problems. I'm getting my cata pup (future puppy) neutered when his testicles descend. The surgery and recovery is easier on a puppy. :) So I won't have to worry about those extra costs lol.

[trayi52]

Yeah, it true, isn't it, they don't charge as much to do a male does it? It really hard when you live on a fixed income to have stuff done, so you just have to put money in a piggy bank and save, save, save. My husband is diabled and its hard, has all kinds of heart and lung problems. So my pets are my comforters. :)

[K9soul]

I understand the procedure for males is much simpler (for pretty obvious reasons). I know a neutering costs less here than a spaying.

Maybe they charge more for larger dogs because they take more anesthesia?

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by K9soul


Maybe they charge more for larger dogs because they take more anesthesia?
Good point! That's probably it. :)

And yes, castrating is much easier. They will even let the vet techs do it. You know that they can do it without anesthesia if you want? I think that's just terrible!

[My Peanuts]

I'm pretty sure that they charge more for bigger dogs because they use more anesthetic.

[trayi52]

I want to tell you about what happened a few years ago, the vet in my very small town, had to finish cutting the tail off of my capauchin monkey, I know I am getting way off the subject, but I wanted to tell you what he done.:mad: and I didn't know this until he started cutting, well anyway, here is little bugger, that was her name, laying there while he is cutting her tail off, and I said she don't look like she is asleep, and he says oh shes not asleep, I just gave her a drug to make her not move, and that she still feels the pain. OOHH, I will never, never take my babys to somebody like him again. She was feeling the pain!!!!! May he have a surgeon like that!

[My Peanuts]

trayi52, that is horrible! You'd think a vet would be more compassionate! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[trayi52]

Honey, if you just knew the full story on this guy! Lots of horror stories it would make your hair turn gray. When any of mine get sick, I go out of town.:eek:

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Good point! That's probably it. :)

And yes, castrating is much easier. They will even let the vet techs do it. You know that they can do it without anesthesia if you want? I think that's just terrible!

that is not really the reason, I asked the vet about why they charge so much for larger dogs to get spayed, and it is because they have more fat to cut through and it is a longer procedure.

[trayi52]

I forgot to add that he has picture up in his office of him as a little boy, working on his stuffed doggie, and it says " and he always wanted to be a vet" :mad:

[My Peanuts]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
that is not really the reason, I asked the vet about why they charge so much for larger dogs to get spayed, and it is because they have more fat to cut through and it is a longer procedure.

yeah, well I got that info from my vet that wanted me to wait to spay Syl. I swear he is really great. He was good with Angie when she needed blood transfusions and he did everything possible. He is also a millionare, which I like because he does this because he likes to help animals and not for a living. However, my family has known him for over 20 years, so he is older and some of his thoughts may be a little dated. Although this spaying thing is the first thing I have found that his opinions differ from the Pet Talkers.

[My Peanuts]

Originally posted by trayi52
I want to tell you about what happened a few years ago, the vet in my very small town, had to finish cutting the tail off of my capauchin monkey, I know I am getting way off the subject, but I wanted to tell you what he done.:mad: and I didn't know this until he started cutting, well anyway, here is little bugger, that was her name, laying there while he is cutting her tail off, and I said she don't look like she is asleep, and he says oh shes not asleep, I just gave her a drug to make her not move, and that she still feels the pain. OOHH, I will never, never take my babys to somebody like him again. She was feeling the pain!!!!! May he have a surgeon like that!

I worry about how Harley's tail got cut. I think he came from a home where a dog is "just a dog" if you know what I mean. Also Sylvia had an operation for hernias when she was at the breeder and her thumb claws (I can't believe I forgot their real name!) removed. I hope everything was performed properly! :(

[K9soul]

that is not really the reason, I asked the vet about why they charge so much for larger dogs to get spayed, and it is because they have more fat to cut through and it is a longer procedure.

I'd certainly understand that for a spay procedure but I was wondering more about the neuter procedure. Surely that bit of difference in the size on a neuter procedure wouldn't warrant a price increase?

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by K9soul
I'd certainly understand that for a spay procedure but I was wondering more about the neuter procedure. Surely that bit of difference in the size on a neuter procedure wouldn't warrant a price increase?

It is the weight of the dog. Anesthetic goes by weight. The vet weighs the dog and then assigns the ammount of anesthetic to be given, a bigger dog requires more. :)

[Shelteez2]

Just a little more info on spaying/neutering to fill your heads :)

I think almost everyone here agrees that it's best to spay/neuter your pets, to prevent cancers and what not.
I recently heard about a study, though, in which the initial findings were that early spay/neuter can substantially increase the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer), *especially* in breeds prone to it. The study, done on Rotties, showed that males neutered prior to 7 months were 400% more likely to develop bone cancer in their lifetimes.)
The person I heard this from didn't have a link to the info, but did have a copy of the abstract which I'll post here:
Influence of Gender and timing of Gonadectomy on risk for appendicular bone sarcoma in Rottweilers

Cooley DM, Beranek B, Glickman LT, Waters DJ.
Departments of Veterinary Clinical Sciences and Veterinary Pathobiology Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907

Background: The role of sex hormones in bone sarcomagenesis has not been extensively studied. In a previous study using the Veterinary Medical Database (VMDB), Ru et al. (Vet J 1998:156 ??-39) found a significantly increased risk for osteosarcoma in castrated males and spayed females compared with sexually intact dogs. However, this VMDB-based study could not evaluate whether age at neutering significantly influenced osteosarcoma risk. Purpose: To determine if gender or lifetime duration of gonadal exposure influences the risk for appendicular bone sarcoma in Rottweilers. Methods: Data were obtained from owners of 746
purebred Rottweilers as part of a nationwide, population based study. Each dog owner completed a questionnaire regarding gender neuter status, age at spay or castration, bone tumor occurence, age at diagnosis, current vital status and age of death. The incidence of appendicular bone sarcoma per 1000 dog years at risk was determined for intact males, castrated males, intact females, and spayed females. The relative risk (RR) and 95% confidence limit of appendicular bone sarcoma
was calculated by dividing the incidence rate for each gender-neuter category by the incidence rate for intact males (reference category; rr=1.0). For males and females, the influence of lifetime exposure to gonadal hormones on bone sarcoma was determined by comparison of the incidence of four subgroups stratified by age at neutering. Results: Appendicular bone sarcoma affected 111 of 746 (14.9%) Rottweilers. The RR for bone sarcoma was 1.64 for castrated males, 1.36 for spayed females and 1.04 for intact females. Females spayed at <1 year of age had a significantly increased risk for appendicular bone sarcoma compared with intact
females (RR=2.21). Similarly, males castrated at <1 year of age had a significantly increased risk for bone sarcoma compared with intact males (RR=3.12%) Conclusions: In this population-based study, Rottweilers that underwent gonadectomy at <1 year of age had a significantly increased risk for bone sarcoma. These observations may be explained by either a direct effect of sex hormones on skeletal homeostasis or by indirect effects on body conformation or physical activity.
Alternately, confounding factors unique to dogs that undergo early spay or castration may account for this association.

And also here's a link to an article on the etiology (cause) of different canine cancers. http://ravenwooddals.tripod.com/cancer.htm
Here's the section on osteosarcoma:
VI. Osteosarcoma

Bone tumors in dogs are very similar to those in humans. The small region between the shaft and ends of the long bones (the metaphysis, where growth occurs) is the most common site. These tumors are usually high-grade, aggressive, and usually spread to other parts of the body. The lung is most commonly involved.

Osteosarcoma tends to affect larger breeds with a slight increase in incidence with age. Males are more likely to be affected than are females. And since neutered dogs and bitches have twice the risk of developing the disease as compared to intact dogs, hormonal factors are thought to play a role.

Weight-bearing long bones of the legs are most frequently involved, especially the metaphysis of the radius. Breeds which weigh over 80 pounds are 61 times more likely to develop bone cancer than dogs weighing less than this amount. Also, the rates of developing bone cancer between breeds increases with standard height of the breed independent of the dogs' weight. This means, for example, that when you consider two breeds which weigh over 80 pounds, say an Irish Wolfhound and a mastiff, the wolfhound has a higher likelihood of getting osteosarcoma because he is taller at the withers. However, within a given breed, heavier animals are more likely to develop the disease.

As in human children, development of bone cancer in dogs is related to rapid bone growth. It is postulated that strenuous activity causing microscopic fractures of bones during periods of rapid growth induces cancer formation. Since taller dogs have a longer growth period than smaller ones, they are exposed to the risk of getting the cancer for a longer period of time. Likewise, heavier dogs are more likely to stress their developing bones leading to the microscopic fractures that start the tumor development process.

Ionizing radiation (as is given in radiation therapy) and having a metallic implant in the repair of a fracture are both associated with developing osteosarcoma. However, given their rarity in dogs, neither of these two factors is likely responsible for a significant number of bone tumors.

Anyways, interesting reading to say the least.

[Twisterdog]

Ill be sure not to ask questions on here again . If im only going to get put downs

I hope you don't really feel that way. I honestly didn't see anyone putting you down anywhere in this post. We were just giving our opinions, trying to give you good advice and help you.

Besides ... after I come snatch Tiny, she'll be living with me anyway! ;)

[[email protected]]

I don't know when it changed, but amoore is the most responsible dog owner that I know! She spoils all of her babies to no end...I spoil my little April too, but amoore, she is so great with tiny and jojo and all her little pets. That's a fact.:confused:

Amoore, please do not become discouraged, let it pass. I read the page here, and all you did was ask a question and I saw no call for the question to be answered in such ways. It was undeserved, and it reminds me of Karen's thread that I thought was such a blessing, "Be Nice". That wasn't so long ago, and it does seem that you got a few attacks here from your very good question you asked. Remember, you are here to talk about your pet, that you love so very dearly and to tell people your kind thoughts on their dear pets, not to be attacked. Keep asking your questions, and when you get attacked, just ignore it. Keep telling us about your sweet, well-cared for pets! I love hearing about them and I am sure you have plenty of other Tiny fans here too. Think of us! :)
I hope you are okay. I know how that hurts.

[lv4dogs]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Good point! That's probably it. :)

And yes, castrating is much easier. They will even let the vet techs do it. You know that they can do it without anesthesia if you want? I think that's just terrible!

They charge more for larger animals due to a combination of reasons, they use more anesthesia (which to complete the anesthesia they use a multiple of drugs, a pre-op shot, one that makes them wake up smoother etc), the procedure takes longer because everything is larger (more to cut, more to remove) they use more sutures, the amount of cleanup takes longer.

Although you can castrate an animal easier than spaying it should still have anesthesia, especially in dogs!
Never seen a vet tech neuter a dog (it is illegal anyways in my area) although they do alter male cats.
Male cats are so easy I have neutered quite a few while working as a vet tech. If I had anesthesia I would go around to all the farms etc... & neuter them for everyone that does not have enough $!