Nature vs Nurture

[Shelteez2]

Anyone familiar with this age old debate? What are your thoughts on it?

For those who aren't familiar with it I'll give a brief summary of it and how it relates to dogs.
Basically there are 2 beliefs. One is that a dog is born a clean slate and will learn everything through it's environment. It's temperment will be shaped through it's experiences in life, and how it is brought up (nurture). The second is that a dog is born with it's temperment hardwired in, passed down from it's parents (nature). How it is is how it will always be. ie)A shy pup will be a shy dog.

If I had been presented with this issue only a few years ago I would have said nurture wins all the way. I believed anything could be solved if a dog was brought up in the proper environment and given the proper training.
Now, after meeting a lot more dogs, and spending time with breeders, I'd have to say that I believe it's a combination of nature and nurture, with a heavy emphasis still going towards the nurture side. I do believe temperment is in part inherited. If not, breeders would not put so much stock in it. however I also believe that given the right training methods in most cases, a dog can overcome almost any temperment issue.

So what are your thoughts?

[aly]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
I'd have to say that I believe it's a combination of nature and nurture, with a heavy emphasis still going towards the nurture side. I do believe temperment is in part inherited. If not, breeders would not put so much stock in it. however I also believe that given the right training methods in most cases, a dog can overcome almost any temperment issue.


I completely agree with that!

I've seen everything from old, abused dogs who overcame horrific pasts to aggressive young puppies that could not be helped.

[Twisterdog]

When my dogs do something wonderful and brilliant, of course it is because of nuturing, because I have trained them so well.

When my dogs do something horrible and disobedient, of course it is because of nature, an inherited issue that can't be resolved.

Hey, works for me! ;)



Seriously, I think it is a combination.

For example, my dog Lacie hates kids and is aloof and not at all snuggly and cuddly. She has been like this since the day I got her, at about five weeks old. I have tried and tried to change these things, but it's just the way she is. Nature.

However, there are many, many things that my rescue dogs did or didn't do when I got them, that I have since taught them to do/stop doing. Nurture.


The same is true of humans. A huge amount of what we do and know is learned behavior. However, there is a lot that is not. I don't like loud noises, crowded places, or the taste of asparagus. I like the color purple, the taste of vanilla. I am afraid of heights and insects. These are nothing I've learned, it's just how I am. Nature.

[Glacier]

Well, I can't say it any better than Twisterdog did. I too believe it's a combination.

Through a bizarre chain of events, I have met someone who saw my dog, Franklin, being born. She worked for the musher who bred Franklin's litter. According to her, from the moment he was born, Franklin has been shy. His mother's shy, his littermates are shy--not the same extent Franklin is. Three of his littermates went home with my friends as soon as they were old enough. They are still a bit timid with new things, but they are generally happy dogs--actually quite competitive on our local sprint mushing circuit. Franklin wasn't so lucky and he ended up in our shelter at a year old and stayed there until he was 2. He's been here almost 2 years now. He's happy and outgoing with me and my husband. He's a confident dog in his harness. Take him somewhere new, introduce someone new, he freaks out. That genetic shyness is still there. Unfortunately, I am seeing more and more of what I believe is genetic shyness in husky lines.

I have another dog, Kayleigh, who arrived here starved, aggressive, incredible prey drive, food protective...you name the bad habit, Kayleigh had it! Almost three years later we've overcome many of Kayleigh's issues. However, she's still dog aggressive at times and she still has a high prey drive. I used to think that with enough time and training, we could overcome those things too. I blamed much of it on Kayleigh's puppyhood, which I know was awful. Then I met a guy who owns her littermate. Tika has always had a great life, spoiled, trained, well treated...a great life! She's dog aggressive and like Kayleigh, anything smaller than her is a snack!

For my own dogs, I have to know what it is that sets of the "nature" things and control their access to those triggers--Franklin doesn't come to town with me unless he has to go to the vet. I lock all the cats up when Kayleigh comes in the house,ect.

[wolfsoul]

My opinion is that dogs are shaped through both. I can't say it's 100% accurate on dogs, as there is no way to tell whether or not nature or nurture has certain impacts on dogs unless you take the time to find two dogs that were concieved by two sperm entering one egg, and having the egg split.

However, it is known now that both nature and nurture shape a PERSON to be who they are.

Tests have been done on identical twins for quite some time. Identical twins share the exact same genetic code, therefore are identical. So what do you do? Split them up! Scientists have taken identical twins who were seperated at birth and noted their personalities. They note any differences and similarities between the identical twins. It's actually remarkable what is always found. I remember one case where they reunited identical twins. One was a Jewish man who was raised by his father, and the other was a Nazi who was raised by his grandmother. So you'd think that because of their environment (nurture) they would act completely oppisite. Rather, they acted quite alot the same because of the genes they inherited (nature). Alot of times, when the twins meet, they go to the interview in the same make of car, wearing the same type of clothes (These personal preferences may not be inherited -- for instance, identical twins may both wear many rings because they both have pretty hands).

So, therefore we know that we aquire traits from both nature and nurture. That is why reputable breeding is so important! You want to make sure you have the best dogs that compliment eachother's personalities so that the puppies will inherit the wonderful personalities! And of course, you want the owner to provide a loving caring household so that the dog can further shape it's personality with nurture. :)

Sorry to ramble.

[lv4dogs]

I'd have to say that I believe it's a combination of nature and nurture, with a heavy emphasis still going towards the nurture side. I do believe temperment is in part inherited. If not, breeders would not put so much stock in it. however I also believe that given the right training methods in most cases, a dog can overcome almost any temperment issue.

I strongly agree with that!

[KYS]

Quote: I'd have to say that I believe it's a combination of nature and nurture, >>>>

Yep! I agree too!
A list I am on, breeders/vets/trainers periodically have a debate about this very same subject every time
an Akita attack, Insurance companies will not insure our breed or a breed band.
I will say that the census is, that genetics plays a very
important role, and the owner can inhance the behavior
either in a bad or good way.
But a dog that is not mentally sound,
can never be trusted, even with property training
and socializing.

[K9soul]

I very much agree that it is a combination. Tasha has always been timid of people outside my husband and I. I got her from the shelter at 7 weeks old and socialized her extensively, took her to obedience school for the socialization aspect and so on. It just didn't matter. Once she got used to people she was ok with them, but she still barks and growls and stays well clear of visitors, especially men, even though she has never had a bad experience with a man. And the more loud/confident/aggressive the person is in personality, the less she trusts them. But I know she has never had an actual traumatic experience with people to cause the behavior, and she has been socialized as much as a pup could be.

She's MUCH more willing to approach and trust someone who has their own dog with them. Almost as if "hey if that dog is fine with them, maybe they are ok." Can hardly blame her for that though. I trust doggy people more too!