Killian/Liver Disease ?

[Sudilar]

Again, Killian has unusual symptoms and ailments that just don't fit with the text books. His eonsinophylic gingivitis is common in cats, not dogs and now this.....

Here goes...ask questions, if you have any...make corrections.....give advice if you have it....

The doctor (ultasound Dr. gives his opinion and diagnosis and recommendations) said that Killian's liver is very small. His veins were very dilated so if he would have done a biopsy, he could have hemorrhaged to death. He found high blood pressure in the liver, not all over his body, just in the liver.
Possible causes for this are:
1.Vascular shunt- when you eat, the toxins pass through the liver to be detoxified, his liver was being by-passed and the toxins are going into his blood stream throughout his body.
How do you get a shunt? Born with it. No, because shunts are usually in small dogs, with neurological problems, seizures, etc. symptoms that show up as a pup. Many times they die very young. Killian is large and used to weigh a lot and never had a seizure or any neurological problem.
Acquired shunts. Come on later in life. High blood pressure could cause a shunt and a shunt could cause high blood pressure. What came first and why?
An aquired shunt can be caused by cirrhosis of the liver (none) or tumor (none evident).

2.Vein disorder or clot

3.Scarring from chronic hepatitis from a low grade bacterial infection.

In Nov. of 2000, Killi's liver enzymes were still normal. In April of 2001, they were 220 (elevated), then came the crash you all know about.
He does not exhibit the signs of most of the problems listed. However, #3 may fit a bit if his gingivitis was caused by a bacterial infection (I'll have to ask the vet) or way back when we first got him, could the unknown infection that he had , could that have been bacterial and has it slowly been working on him since? Must ask that question.

The options:
1. Go to U of I for a technizium (sp?) enema (an enema with radioactive dye) and see if the dye goes to the liver or to the heart or wherever. All this test will tell you is that he has a shunt. It will not locate it, it will just tell you that there is one. He'd have to stay overnight until he's no longer radioactive!

2.The dreaded Exploratory Surgery with two specialists. This would be a mesenteric (sp??)venogram. They would inject dye and then xray where the shunt was and then the surgeon specialist would open his liver and tie it off. HOWEVER in MOST acquired shunt cases (if it is what he has and a big IF it is) there are multiple shunts and when you tie them off it can cause more damage, even possibly death.

3. Diet and medicine. Put him on a low protein, high fat and carbo diet and administer amoxicillin 5 days out of the month. Monitor him regularly and see how he keeps doing.

The u/s doc said that maybe the bad breath is caused by the ammonia toxins in the bloodstream. The next time his breath gets really bad, there's an ammonia test we can take. Why did the mouth biopsy come back eosinophylic gingivitis then??? Just my question.

So there are the options. The enema will tell you only that it is a shunt not where or how many. The surgery is extremely invasive with it's dangers and Killi's liver can't handle many anesthetics. His liver blood vessels are very dilated with a hemorrhage risk.

I chose diet and medication and monitoring. I asked my vet what she would do if it was her dog and she thought for a while and agreed with me. All we can do is pray that we have him for a few more years.

Any thoughts or suggestions or ideas are welcomed. Thanks, guys, you've been great through all of this.

Sue

[Cinder & Smoke]

Good Choice, Momma Sue!

The meds/observe course of action should buy some time... Spend that time surfing the net and talking to any Vet Specialists you can reach.

And don;t be afraid to ask the loaded question: "If he was YOUR FurKid, what would you do?"

Continued prayers for You, Killian, and of course Shiloh, too.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Sue, I am so sorry Killi has to go through all this, I guess I wonder why it always happens to one we love so much.
Of course you need to decide yourself what you feel is the best coarse of action.
I can tell you honestly, if it was Perry or Daisy and I had to make that decision, it is difficult to make but I would go with the diet and medication and hope that would do it.
I would do the technizium and the exploratory surgery as a last option.
I know this is a difficult decision for you to make, I'm just saying if it was my dogs
I would go the same route that you have decided on. Please give Killi a hug and a few smooches from Daisy, Perry and me. He is very brave to go through all this, Bless him.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Jackie ]

[lizbud]

Sue, I agree with your conclusions.
The first number #3 was probably the original cause, and the second #3 is the best course to take(given Killian's physical state given by your Vet's evaluation).
Sue.. I know that you are very 'in tune'
with your babies and will instinctively choose what you feel is the best course to take. You have my complete support and continued prayers. All the best. Liz

[Logan]

Sue, you and your husband are the ones closest to the situation, and I know you will give long thought to your decision. I tend to agree with your first assessment, based on what you said in your post. There are too many unanswered questions, and is it worth putting him (and yourself) through the trauma of an exploratory operation and the recovery, as well as the risks associated with surgery? I think I would side with meds and diet, and research, research, research to see if there are other options or ideas.

You know we love you and are all praying for many more years of happiness with Killian. I am so, so sorry for this latest news. But I sure do believe in the power of prayer when it comes to our family, human and pet. And whatever happens, my biggest hope is that Killian can be comfortable and continue to enjoy his family.

I'm thinking of you often.

Logan

[4 feline house]

This has not been a happy night to browse Pet Talk. First I read that sweet little Charlie is gone, only five months after Thelma learned he was ill. Now brave Killi is very ill and the good news we were praying and hoping for will not be forthcoming.

Everyone, give your little guys extra hugs and skritchies, because they are here way too short a time. And in the meantime keep praying for Sue and Killi for healing, and Thelma for comfort.

[KYS]

I am so sorry for you and Killi.
My heart goes out to you.
I hope the medication and the change
of diet does the trick.
Poor baby.

[Eudora]

Poor Killian... first his liver and now this... the medicine should buy some time so go find the best vet you can! This seems to be a really special case....

[Daisy's Mom]

Poor Killi! This wasn't the news I was hoping for :( Sue I would have chosen the medicine too. Daisy and I are praying with our paws and fingers crossed for you both. Good luck with everything.

[Angels3]

Sue, I agree entirely with everything Cinder & Smoke said. I shall keep looking out for any further info that might help. And loads of prayers will be coming your way...

[joycenalex]

dear sue, i am so sorry to read such news. i would like to make a few suggestions. since you live in llinois could you have the ultrasound reviewed by one of the board certified vet radiologists at the university of illinois at champaign to see if there is a concurring opinion. yahoo groups has a chat group for dogs with liver disease, i encourage you to join us, its' addy is groups.yaho.com/groupcanineliver-d.
what recommendations did the vets/nutritionists make specifically for food for killian? it sounds as though commercially prepared food is not a good option, would it help killian if you were to prepare foods for him?
since my dog has a chronic disease(epilepsy) i am taking advantage of the talent at my state university, i am very glad i did, and i would HIGHLY recommend it to anyone, at least getting a second opinion. i was also very surprised at how reasonable the costs were.
i wish you, killian and the rest of the pack the best. joyce and alex the wonder dog, columbus ohio

[RachelJ]

I think Joyce has an idea that may be worth pursuing. After all you have been through, it may not hold out any solutions but certainly worth the effort to confirm what you already know or the chance that there may be some other explanation or options.

This is one of those situations where you are learning more than one ever wants to know. I am so sorry you and Killian have to go through this ordeal. He is so lucky to have a Mommie who tries to hard to help him.

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Sue, This is not the news we were all hoping for. But now, knowing what the cause of the problem is, we can all brainstorm and help and support you to do what is best to get Killi back to full health. He WILL be here for many years to come; I just know it. I agree with Phred and Logan and Rachel and Joyce. I don't think Killi's system is up to the surgery or enema right now. I would start with the diet and medication, close monitoring, ask every question you can think of your vet, especially, as I always do and like Phred would. "What would YOU do if it were your furkid?" The more invasive options will still be there if necessary.
And if you can, Joyce's recommendation of a university/teaching hospital would be ideal. They are usually the ultimate resource for cases like Killi's. Here in Mass., we are lucky to have Tuft's U. and Angel Memorial Animal Hospital as major teaching hospitals for furkids. If you can, try and get any info. you can from U. of Ill./their opinion. The Yahoo group Joyce mentioned has a wealth of info. about liver disease in doggies. Like Phred says, being armed with as much knowledge as possible is your first line of attack.

Sue, I can't begin to tell you how much we all here are thinking of you, praying for you and sending you all our support to help get you through this. We have come to know and love Killian so. I wish there wasn't the great distance there is between us all. You know we would all do anything and everything in our power to help you and Killi. If only to be there as friends who truly care and love you. Please give Killi, the bravest, most beautiful boy, all our love. We'll be waiting to hear from you. Sandra

[Karen]

We will all, of course, keep Killian in our thoughts, I agree with your decision for diet and monitoring being the best option of those you were given. Are there any foods/activities you should avoid or anything? I have never dealt with liver disease in a dog, so I can't do anything but keep you all in our thougts and prayers.

[Sudilar]

Hi, I've been researching liver disease and shunts, etc. and talking to people who have something similar maybe..... My head is spinning. Killian just sits there very content and happy! He has to eat less protein and more fats and carbohydrates. This morning I made him American Fried Potatoes without the onion and salt. My husband asked why I never cook for him like that. LOL Killi ate half of it and I asked my husband if he wanted the rest. He declined. Could it be he didn't like the little pieces of dog food stuck to it??? Ha-ha. Gotta laugh or else I'd cry. :( I'm going to check out that Yahoo group, too. One minute I think that I should do the surgery and the next, I don't. One person I talked to said her dog went through that and they didn't find anything conclusive just that her immune system was attacking her liver. I'm waiting for more info on that cause maybe that could be happening to Killi, too with all his immune system problems. If anyone comes across any more leads, please let me know... I want to know everything about this, but I don't know if we'll ever know for sure...
Thanks, everyone....again and again!!

Sue, Killian and Shiloh

[AdoreMyDogs]

Sue...I know Killi will make it out of this OK...he has to, he is way too loved by your family and us Pet Talkers. I was saddened by the latest news, but I think you are making a great decesion in weighing all the options. From what you said, if it was my dog I think I would opt for the diet/meds and see how that worked. It's hard for me to say, though, since I have not yet been faced with this with any of my doggies.

You are in my prayers.

[Albea]

Sue, I'm so sorry to learn that you still don't know what is causing Killie's problems. I agree with everybody that has told you to try diet and medication first and leave surgery as a last resort.
I know exactly how you feel, I went through a long illness with my second Golden. :( My thoughts are with you and Killie. Give him many hugs from me. :)

[3-greys-and-a-mutt]

So very sorry to hear this news. It is so distressing when a pupper is sick.
I don't know if this will help at all: a friend whose dog can't eat anything with more than 12% protein said that the only quality, low-protein treat she could find was Purina Right Bites. I think they are kind of like jerky squares?

[tatsxxx11]

Sue, I found a veterinary info. sight with a large section on liver shunts. I am copying one letter and the response. There are others as well. As you get more info. I will go through them to see which ones pertain to Killi. It gave hopeful news about surgical treatment. Hope it helps you. Love you Killi...Always.

Mike Richards, DVM
4/3/2001



Portosystemic shunts in Golden Retriever puppy

Question: Dear Dr. Richards,

My wife and I recently purchased a Golden Retriever puppy. After a few
weeks we awoke to find her dragging her nose and was wandering around
seemingly intoxicated. After several tests at our local vet (bial
analysis, sonogram etc.), she was diagnosed with an intraheptic
shunt. The vet prescribed a low protein diet together with a lactulose
supplement and suggested we speak to a specialist as soon as possible.

I understand that the new diet will "slow" down the effects of the disease
although the only long-term hope is surgery. My question to you is, how
long can she be expected to live a healthy life before the onset of
seizures, complications etc., and how successful is this surgery?

Finally, I understand that treatment for intraheptic shunts is fairly
revolutionary. Do you know where I can go to find a surgeon that has
treated this condition successfully? We live in the NY/NJ area, but are
prepared to travel further afield if necessary.

Thanks in advance for your help.


Answer: John-

Some dogs with portosystemic shunts can be maintained long term with
dietary therapy, combined with lactulose and an antibiotic such as
neosporin or metronidazole. However, surgery is still considered to be the
best option for most dogs with this problem.

There isn't a good way to predict how long dietary therapy will work to
control the clinical signs associated with portosystemic shunts. This
therapy doesn't really slow down the progression of the problem, it just
controls the symptoms associated with it.

What happens with a portosystemic shunt is that blood returning through the
venous circulation through the liver, where toxins are removed, simply
by-passes the liver and is returned to the circulation unchanged. In
addition, portions of the liver which are dependent on this circulation do
not develop, so dogs with portosystemic shunts do not have normal liver
development or liver function. By surgically tying off the shunt, the
blood is forced back through the liver, as it should have been, and this
allows it to be cleansed of toxins and for the liver to develop in areas it
could not.

This is a high risk surgery. There are increased anesthetic risks, although
these can be reduced by proper planning. There is an increased surgical
risk due to the location of the shunt and the tendency for increased
bleeding in patients with decreased liver function. Finally, when the
surgery is otherwise successful, the increase in blood pressure in the
liver can cause problems in some patients in some patients several hours to
a day or so after surgery.

Despite the risks, surgery is still considered to be better than medical
therapy by most specialists, since it does stop further deterioration of
the liver, when it works. The mortality rate within the first month of
surgery was 29% in a review of 160 cases (Wolschrijn, et al, Utrecht
University, April 2000). If total ligation of a shunt is possible and the
patient survives the surgery and immediate post-surgical period, the
prognosis is very good for long term success. If only partial ligation of a
shunt is possible, about 45% of dogs will have a recurrence of clinical
signs within 4 or 5 years.

Intrahepatic shunts are more difficult to repair than extra-hepatic shunts
and for both it is important to find a surgeon who has some experience in
treating these shunts. I am not aware of a radical new surgery for this
condition, I think it is just difficult enough that it is necessary to find
a good surgeon. I do not know who the most experienced surgeon in your area
is, but I suspect that there are good surgeons at the Animal Medical Center
in Manhattan, at the University of Pennsylvania and at Cornell University.
It is entirely possible that there is an equally competent surgical
specialist closer to you. Your vet will have an idea of who the best
surgeon in your area is, or may suggest one of the referral centers above.

I am sorry you are faced with this problem. Finding the right surgeon is
important. It is worth making a long trip to find an experienced surgeon if
that is necessary.

Mike Richards, DVM
8/25/2000

[Angels3]

Sue, we had an elderly dog who had to be on a low-protein, low-fat diet because her liver wasn't working well any more. I'd give her rice, mixed with cooked vegetables & only a VERY little bit of a protein food...like chicken. I used balsamic rice because it's lower in starch than ordinary rice.

[Sudilar]

Thank you, Everyone, for your advice and continued prayers. Thanks, Sandra, for your research!

I think that the surgery is too risky for Killian. I would hate for him to hemorrhage and die on me. :( I'm told that acquired shunts are usually multiple and tying them off in itself is risky and can cause death. The surgery works well for puppies with only one shunt, they say. Killian doesn't exhibit the usual signs of having a shunt, like neurological problems, etc.

This is the part in the above article that scares me:

If total ligation of a shunt is possible and the
patient survives the surgery and immediate post-surgical period, the
prognosis is very good for long term success.
The IFs of surviving surgery and post-surgery. So if the surgery and post-op don't kill you, then you'll be ok! Scary thought.

Thanks for all your help. Please keep the info coming if you find anything!!!

Sue Killi and Shi

[tatsxxx11]

Just wanted you to know Sue, that I was sitting here thinking of you and Killian. I hope you and he have a quiet, peaceful night. Did you eat your din-din Killi? Please give him a big hug and kiss Sue.
Sandra

[Sudilar]

Sandra, you are so wonderful to be thinking of my sweet Killi today. I think he feels pretty good. He's acting so close to normal now except for not eating as much. He does eat some dog food every day. The bad part is that I can't feed him fish or steak or any of all that good food full of protein anymore. I guess it's up to him to decide that he must eat what's there in his bowl if he wants to live longer (how do you explain that to a dog?) I don't think he'll ever see 110 lbs. again, but if he stays at 95, it won't be so bad. It's kind of hard, but we must fight this. We're hangin' in there!!I am taking in everyone's advice (keep it coming, please) and using every bit of information.
Thank you all for your continued support!!

Slurps and wags, Killian, Sue and Shiloh

Sue

[Gio]

I was off work for a few days and I didn't have a chance to check if there were any news. But I thought of you and Killi a lot and I am really sorry about the news. I would also leave surgery as the last resort. As I can understand Killi is not in any pain and seems happy enough and that's important.

I will keep the prayers up.
Take care
Gio

[Stenograsaurus]

Oh, Sue, I'm so sorry. I know the news must have been very devestating. I honestly believe you made the right choice. I also wanted to let you know that when I first brought home my shepherd/collie mix and weighed her, she only weighed 40 pounds (yes, she was full grown).
Anyway, Killi, keep eating what you can when you can. I'm sending you lots of hugs, kisses and scratches. Keep fighting. You are one strong boy!!!

[Daisy's Mom]

Hi Sue, Killi, and Shiloh. Just wanted to let you know that Daisy and I are thinking about Killian. How is he today?
-Bridget and Daisy

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Hi Sue, I came across this and I don't really understand the problem, but maybe this will help. It comes from the Enclyclopedia of Canine Veterinary Medical Information - Authored by Michael Richards, DVM - the site is http://www.vetinfo.com
there are other things about this medical problem in the question and answers. I hope this helps some. Love and kisses to Killi.
PS in the alphabet under L there are other people with dogs who have the same problem as Killi.
Liver Shunt
Liver shunts are a congenital problem in some dogs. During gestation the placenta delivers blood with food and oxygen from the mother through the umbilical vein. This means that in the fetus, circulation is the reverse of circulation after birh, because the fetus veins have the oxygenated blood and arteries return unoxygenated blood to the heart. In order to make this work, there is a shunt from the liver venous circulation to the arterial circulation. At birth, the pressure within the circulatory system changes as respiration occurs and this shuts the shunt, which eventually disappears. If this reverse in circulation doesn't happen for some reason, the liver is deprived of a blood supple and doesn't develop properly after birth. Many puppies can live with the small functioning portion of the liver for some time but eventually have problems and usually die if the situation is uncorrected. It is possible to surgically close the shunt and the surgery works well. I can remember hearing of one sheltie that was 6 years of age or possibly older before a congenital liver shunt was recognized, so some dogs can live a long time with this problem.

[ July 23, 2001: Message edited by: jackiesdaisy1935 ]

[lizbud]

Hi Sue...Just wanted to post a reference point for you to check out; but saw that
Jackiesdaisy had beat me to it.The Vetinfo
site is excellent!! All info is listed from
A to Z.Check out (L) and Liver disease In DOGS... I,ve used the site to research
Lameness in dogs for Buddy.
There is tons of info there.
Good Luck...Liz

[thelmalu99]

Sue,
I just saw this and wanted to say that your sweet Killian is in my prayers. Hang in there and keep giving him all the love you have!
Tell Killian that we are pulling for him!
love,
Thelma and Yertle
(Charlie is now at the Rainbow Bridge, but I'm sure he's pulling for Killian, too!)

[Corinna]

Sue for what it's worth I think the diet and meds are the best idea . You can get his weight up and maybe the counts down . It gives you time to learn more and strengthen him up. Who knows with all the research beinng done in a year or so they may have the easy answers. Chin up and ever forward. Please also don't go in to info overload, limit you search or it becomes one big blur and you can miss a very good idea. I know we missed a really good why of enhancing Tim's immune system before surgury which could have cut recover in a third of the time. We have a saying be a turtle slow and steady.

[Sudilar]

Thank you all for your continued support and information. I wish I knew a little more than I do. I could be looking at a connection between Killian's mouth problem and his liver and I wouldn't even know it! There is a lot of information out there. I've also been getting advice from other sites that may or may not help Killian.

All in all, Killian feels pretty good. He dug out all his toys and was running away from Shiloh with them! LOL I feel bad that I can't give him the people food because of the high protein content. I can't explain it to him so I guess he wonders why. He is eating some of his dog food, but not a lot. Maybe he shouldn't eat a lot with a small liver?

I'll keep you all posted! Thanks!! :) :)

Sue

[aly]

Sue - I think about you, Killian, and Shiloh constantly. I really feel like buying a plane ticket just to give you a hug. Please stay strong during the hard times. I am sure that along with the diet and meds, your love will nurse Killi back to health. My thoughts and prayers are with you ALWAYS!

http://www.swt.edu/~aw1024/getwellkillian.gif

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: aly ]

[Logan]

Aly, you do good work! Killian got his own get well card! If you sell them, we will buy! :D

Sue, we're thinking of you and your family constantly. Hope Killian is adapting to life without the wonderful gourmet food.

Logan

[Sudilar]

Oh, Aly!!!! What a wonderful surprise this morning!!!!!!! :) :) This is fantastic. We LOVE it!!! Thank you so very much. I printed it out and it's going to hang on my fridge for encouragement!!! You are so sweet!

I don't know how I would have been able to cope with this without all of you great people at Pet Talk. This is by far the BEST BB on the entire Internet. It feels like you all are family. No other BB that I have come across is like this!!! Thank you all for being so kind, caring, thoughtful, encouraging, etc. etc.........

YOU ARE ALL THE BEST!!! http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

Love, hugs, waggy-tails, and slurps to all,

Sue, Killian and Shiloh

[Sudilar]

You are NOT going to believe this. I went to the doctor's today for my check-up and she told me that I have to have bloodwork done including a liver enzyme test because the asthma medication I take (Accolate) has been known to cause Liver Disease!! Can you believe it? My mouth dropped!! I've been taking this med for almost two years now and they're finding more and more liver disease in connection with the drug. How ironic is that??? I'm sure I don't have any problems because I don't have any of the common symptoms. Just thought I'd share my disbelief even though this is a DOG board.

Sue

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[Logan]

Well, Sue, maybe this is all in "sympathy" for what Killian has endured. But I'm sorry to hear that you have to go through it too! Bless your heart, seems like the vet bills would be enough for now.

Now you're going to have to report back to us on yourself too!

Our love and prayers to your whole family.
Logan

[Sudilar]

Thanks, Logan. I'm sure I'm ok. It's just a precaution that all Accolate users are going to have to go through every 6 months or so. It's just a blood test and unlike Killian, I have insurance!! :)

Sue

[Corinna]

I can identify with the feelings .I heard a month ago on the radio not(from my Dr.) that the thyroid medicne, I'm on has never gotten FDA approval! It has been prescribed to people for 25 years, now they find the side affects. Great couse they tell you once on it not to get off cuz you can have a heart attack. I ask you all do I get off and risk a heart attack or stay one and possible have a stroke?
Sorry to get off track,It is very maddning when suddenly you can have a new problem caused by the treatment for another.

[Gio]

So many of these drugs cure you for one thing but make something else worse.

Sue, I hope everything will be OK with your tests.

Corinna, I'm so sorry to hear about your worries.

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Sue! The irony of that is unbelievable! Now don't you come back and tell us you're not well!!!!! I'm sure it's just a precautionary thing. So MANY drugs are potentially liver toxic! Yes, cure one thing, create another problem!!

Aly, your card is so beautiful! Thank you for putting "on paper" what is so often in all of our hearts and minds! You talents are only surpassed by your loving compassion!

And Killian, I want you to have a really good day today, sweet boy. Play a little, rest and eat lots of your yummy new food, OK? We love you Sue and Killi!!!

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[tatsxxx11]

"Star light, star bright
First star I see tonight
I wish I could
I wish I might
Make this wish
Come true tonight"

Killi Man...There have been so many "shooting stars" in the beautiful sky here the past few nights. Tonight, Star, Cody and I will go outside and say the biggest prayer on the first one we see, that soon you will we well again. We love you Killi.

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[jackiesdaisy1935]

A Get Well Wish for Killi From Daisy, Perry and me.

http://schnauzerville.homestead.com/files/dogginsniff_md_wht.gif

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: jackiesdaisy1935 ]

[Sudilar]

Star, Cody and Aunt Sandra, thank you for the starry wishes 'cause I think they're workin'. Today I dragged out some of my toys to throw around the house, attacked the vacuum monster and ate somma that plain ole doggy food with no yummies added!

Miss Daisy, Perry and Aunt Jackie, thanks for the boo-kay of roses. I like roses. Mom had some inner garden spot til those Japanese Beetle buggers came and ate all the budlings! :eek:

Shaianne, Kylie and Aunt Staci, thanks for the get well card from that blue place. Mom showed me on the 'puter. It made me feel good.

Everybuddy, thank you all. You make me feel like I got a bunch of friends all over the world. Big slurpy kisses to you all!

Love, Killi

[Daisy's Mom]

Daisy here. Hi Killian! I wanted to tell you that I havbe my paws crossed that you get better soon. My mommy and all the other mommies here on Pet Talk are awfully worried 'bout you. You gotta get better real soon, 'kay? And now that yer mommy has her own tests to take, you gotta be a good boy so she doesn't have any extra stress. I know it's hard to be good sometimes but you gotta try yer hardest. I 'member when Grandpa was inna hospital for a month, I hadda be a real good girl 'cuz the family was a lil' edgy. So just be good, and tell Shiloh that same thing. Slobbery kisses to all of you. Killi, get well soon! We love you!

Love,
Daisy

[tatsxxx11]

Hey Killi, Star and Cody here! Glad yer up to some a yer ole antics and chowin down that good stuff!!! Killi, rip apart a stuffie for me too, OK? That's my favorite thing to do 'xcept eatin. Well, it's nite-nite time. Always gotta send my bestest GSD pal sweet dream wishes 'fore bed! Woofs to ya Killi man and we'll bark again tomorrow! Love, Star and Cody

[Logan]

Sue, you're right, you do have friends, literally all over the world!! Isn't that a great feeling?

Killian is constantly in our prayers. I hope you are getting some results with your research. Good luck to you on that.

It was so great to read that you saw some of the old Killian playing with his toys tonight. Hope the good things continue.

Logan

[bugmom]

Sue,
I have this huge urge to send you comfort food - toll house choco chip cookies and milk! and i would except i ate them. bug and i think about you and Killian every day. okay i think and talk, bug listens and rips up stuffies, but i'm sure she's doing it in Killian's honor...killi would be so proud of shredding messes!
I hope you and Killian and Shiloh have a splendid weekend. We're all pulling for Killian!!
:D

oh, and thanks for the cookies - fun to make, great to eat.... ;)

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: bugmom ]

[Sudilar]

Killi and Shiloh both are Proud of the bug's ability to defend the earth from those fuzzy squeaky monsters by eviscerating their innards!! That's what dogs are supposed to do, as told to me by Shiloh, the squeaky-slayer!!
Killian is acting pretty much his old self again. He's eating much better, but not gaining weight. His coat is getting glossy again (it was so dull). To look at him, you wouldn't know he has liver disease! I hope he can feel this good for the rest of his years before this disease takes over!!
Sue

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[tatsxxx11]

Oh what a beautiful morning
Oh what a beautiful day
I've got a beautiful feeling
Killi is better today!!! :)

Morning Killi!!! Hope yer up and causin mischief and wolfing down a tasty bowl a krunchies! Me and Codster just wanted to wish you and Shiloh and yer mom a happy weekend and send ya our love!
Talk to you soon Killi. I know I've woofed this before...But you're my hero....I don't fall for many boys. ;) But you are sooooo handsome!
Love, Star and Cody

[ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[jackiesdaisy1935]

So glad Mr. Killi is feeling like his ole self right now, just keep it up. We think about you every day. Keep those positive thoughts coming.
Jackie

[Sudilar]

Hi Star, Cody and Aunt Sandra, Daisy, Perry, Aunt Jackie and Everyone,

Me and the Shi-girl are up and causin' trouble already this mornin'. Mom and Dad are havin' somebodies digging up r plants inna front of the house and puttin' up some wall thingy sose it looks all perty again. I think they called em land scrapers or somethin' like that. So me and the Shi-one had to bark bark bark and grrrrrrr at them when they r at the front window (which goes allaways to the floor sose we can see everythin'. "Scuse me, BRB, gotta go bark... Ok...back again. Me and the Shi can look em right inna face and not even hafta bite em cause that clear wall witha doggy snots is tween us!! Haha. We sound so mean!!!!!! Well, thanks for thinkin' of us and what r youse guys up to today? Runnin' outside & playin' and stuff? We can't go out cause those scrapers are inna yard, too. As soon as they leave though, we got some serious sniffin' to do.
Have a fun day today!

Love, Killi and Shi

[ July 28, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[K9karen]

K9K and the Big C are soooo happy :D :D :D that their pals Sue and Killi are doin better! Sorry we're a tad behind on PetTalk but want you to know you've been in our prayers and we've had our fingers and paws crossed for ya! Some of their other PetTalk pals have been fillin us in! C-boy says to K & S to make sure they keep on barkin and snarlin at those garden guy intruders with the big noisy machines, cause they gotta protect their hooman pack from serious danger at all times! :D :D We luv ya!! kisses and slurps!

[Daisy's Mom]

Daisy here. Killi I am SO glad you are actin' like yerself! That makes me so happy! My tail is waggin' so hard that my whole body is shakin'. You keep on gettin' better okay??? You have lots of Pet Talk Mommies prayin' for you!

Love,
Daisy

[KYS]

Best wishes from me, and the furry gang
that Killi is doing so much better. :D

[tatsxxx11]

Woopppppeeeee! Star here, and I'm doin the labbie polka, dancin with joy, shaking ALL OVER that my Killi pal is feelin better! Kisses, licks and lots a love to my hero Killi!!!

[Pam]

Sue...It's been so hard to read these posts about Killian. Now that he has turned the corner I am breathing a little easier. My Ashley went to the Rainbow Bridge after her liver became enlarged. One day she just stopped eating. When she tried to eat it came right up. She went down hill terribly quickly and spent the last 5 days of her life in the vet's hospital on IV trying to fight off whatever was damaging her liver. A biopsy was mentioned as a possibility but at her age of 14 it was decided against. Now that Killian has turned the corner I feel that some of my most worrisome fears can be put to rest. I have read each and every post and held my breath through bad news and good news and am so, so happy that he is eating and playing. God bless you Killian!! Continue to feel well and keep on improving!! Lots of love to you and your mom. :)

[Sudilar]

Pam, I had no idea about Ashley. I am so very sorry. That must have been so hard on you. It really hurts when you can't do anything to help your furbaby. You have my deepest sympathy.

It's so hard to decide whether or not to do that biopsy with all the dangers that go with it. As my vet told me with the event of multiple shunts (if he even has that), the cure can kill him. I feel much better that Killi feels good now. In a few months we will start with the testing again (unless he starts acting sick before then). Hopefully the enzymes will be the same or even better.

Thank you everyone for your wonderful support throughout this long ordeal. I know it is not over, but for now it seems that Killi's holding his own. He is really acting like his old self except for not eating very much. I don't think he is less than 95lbs., though. If he stays at that weight, he'll be ok. We're just hanging in there and taking every day with our precious Killian as a blessing!

Big hugs to Everyone, you are all wonderful!!

Sue

[lizbud]

Sue,
I want to echo Pam's sentiments about
Killian .. i am much relieved to hear such GOOD NEWS concerning his fight to 'come back'
to continued GOOD HEALTH..
The fact that he is acing so much like he
did before this episode began gives cause
for REAL hope of a TOTAL recovery...
All the best to you ,Killi,and Shiloh!!!
Give them both BIG HUGS from me...

P.S. I am so very sorry about your beloved
baby Ashley.

[lizbud]

If i knew how to use those emoticans i
would preface this note with many of the
little RED FACED smilies..
i'm a terrible typist(i can spell really!!)
and the P.S. was meant for PAM...
Thanks

[TheAntiPam]

Hi Killian, I hope you are feeling good today! You and your family have sure been through a lot together lately! :(

I was sure thinking of you today while I watched my favorite TV show "Emergency Vets" on the Animal Channel. They had a tiny little teacup poodle puppy, only 6 months old, that had a liver shunt.

It was very informative to watch the process of figuring out what was wrong, especially when they took the pup to the University (Colorado) hospital for special liver tests. Many of the issues sounded familiar because of you!

For this pup, there was only one hope - to have surgery to fix the shunt. Even with all the special care, they said that there was a 25% chance that the surgery would be fatal. That must be very frightening for the loving family. Thankfully, the surgery went fine, and in only 1 week after getting back home the pup had grown some and was acting more like his silly puppy self.

As a side note, the lady that owned the puppy was herself the recipient of a liver transplant. She had only had her new liver a few months before getting the puppy. She said she felt as if all that happened was meant to be.

Your PetTalk friends are proud of how brave you have been through your tough times. And we are proud of your mom for trying to get the best and safest care for you. We will keep hoping that surgery isn't needed. But if it is, we know it can come out good!

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: TheAntiPam ]

[Sudilar]

I found out in my research that liver shunts in puppies are not uncommon. They are born with it and it is usually a smaller breed. It is usually one shunt and surgery has to be done or the pup may die from it. In older dogs it's not so easy. They develop for some reason and usually it's multiple shunts. When they tie off all the shunts is when the problem arises. I was told that doing that can cause more problems and even death. That's the scary part. I'm going to try and catch the segment of Emergency Vets!! Thanks, Pam for the info!!

[shipugtzus]

Sue am really sorry to hear all this news.I have been away for a few days and am just now checking in on Pet Talk. I agree with everyone else as far as KillianIf it was oneof my babies I would just try the meds and diet for now,as long as he is reasonably comfortable and happy.There are just to many risks involved with the surgery for me to take the chance.As for you we are all there for you andkillian and my prayers are with both of you .....Sandy

[Sudilar]

I finally got the results of MY liver enzyme test and I am normal. No ill effects from the Accolate medication. Hooray! Wish I could say the same for my poor Killi.

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[Karen]

Yay Killian! Good boy! Yay! Yay! Go tear up a stuffie in celebration! :)

[tatsxxx11]

I'm so, so glad for you Sue. I hope Killi is continuing to do better and eat well. Please give him all our love and kisses. Sleep well tonight sweet boy.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Wonderful news Sue, that is one step in the right direction, I'm glad Killi is going back to his ole self, at least things are looking better. I think those positive thoughts and prayers work. :)

[RachelJ]

Great news Sue. We need an icon for "whew" (sigh of relief).

[tatsxxx11]

Hi Sue and Killi! How are you guys doing? Killi, I hope you are eating well for your mommy. We think of you every day, and wanted to send you a long distance hug and lots of love. Let us know how you're doing Killi man. Love, Sandra, Cody and Star

[Sudilar]

Hi! Big hugs and slurps to Aunt Sandra, Cody and Star and Everyone!! Thank you for continuing to think of Killi. He still doesn't eat as much food as he should and now that he can't eat all of that people food, he isn't gaining any weight. Hubby says it looks like he lost more weight. I'll have to take him in and weigh him to see how he's doing. That's the bad part. However, he seems to be his old self (except for the really hot days when even Shiloh sleeps all day), so that's good. I guess you can say he's holding his own at the moment. We'll take one day at a time and for now, the days are pretty good!
Woofs and slurps, Killi, Shiloh and Sue

[tatsxxx11]

Killi, just wanted you to know we are thinking of you. We love you beautiful Killi man. Love, Sandra and Cody and Star.

[Sudilar]

Hi Aunt Sandra, Cody and Star,
Thank you so much for thinking of me. As for right now, I am doing pretty well! I really haven't gained any weight, but I haven't lost any more either! I do yelp once in a while and Mom is trying to locate the area that is the problem (mouth? neck?). The gingivitis is back, but since I have liver disease, we can't do anything too much about it. In a while, I have to go back to the vet and see how my liver enzymes are doing, do an ammonia test and see if my diet is helping the disease. So, I guess I'm doing as well as I can for what ails me!! I really appreciate your thoughts and well wishes!! Big Slurps to Aunt Sandra,Cody and Star!

Love, Killi

[Daisy's Mom]

Hey Killi, glad to hear you're doing good! Daisy and I have been thinking of you. You are still in our thoughts and prayers.

[Sudilar]

Thank you very much Aunt Bridget and Daisy!!

[Gio]

Hey Killi,
last night I was talking about Pet Talk to my sister and I was thinking that I should ask how you were doing since we had not heard from you for a while (honest). When I looked at the board this morning there was an update, what a coincidence! I'm pleased that you're back to your own self, just try to eat a little bit more for your mom.
Big hugs & kisses
Gio

[carrie]

Good news for you Sue, it must be a weight off your mind. I wanted to let you know that I think of you often and am so glad Killian is responding so well to all the care and attention you give him. Keep it up Killian!

[lizbud]

Dear Sue, Killian & Shiloh..

Have not wanted to bug you all to much by asking how Killian is feeling & getting along
.. But lately find myself thinking about that
Handsome boy most every day..
Please post when you have time Sue or learn
anything new & encouraging!!!
Meantime..will continue to pray for all the
critters & humans at your house.
All The Best, Liz & Bud.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Killian, you are our hero, you have been through so much but have been a wonderful pup just doing what they tell you to do., taking it one day at a time. We think of you often and wonder how you are doing and glad you are still doing well. Hope your Mom will give you a hug from Daisy, Perry and me.
Jackie

[Sudilar]

All of you are still the BEST!! I thank you for your concern over my furbabe! Your encouragement means so much. The people on this BB are wonderful.
Killi sends his love (Shiloh and me, too)!

[delidog]

glad to hear that killian is doing better!!!!!!!! :D you are in our thoughts and prayers every day!!!!!!! the deli dog!!!!! :D :) :D :)

[Albea]

Hi Killi!
Is good to know you are feeling better :D Keep it up! Carina and I hope you are on your way to a complete recovery and send you many hugs.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Time to crank up the Prayer generator machine for our boy Killian. Sue has just reported on the another thread that Killian isn't eating very well and is loosing some weight :(.

Dad gotz an idea :D.
Look on this site, bout 4 screens down fromma top, at the section called "The Monday Pet Loss Candle Ceremony". Link to: http://www.petloss.com/.
How'z about we Pet Talkers all join up wiffa Pet Loss folks an light sum candle stikz for not only our Critterz that have gone to wait at the Rainbow Bridge; but also for our Sickies that need sum Prayers and Get Better Wishes?

Iffin we all joined in it wuld make a lot bigger Warm Glow :) all ober the wurld ~ Gotta help make the Sickies feel better :D.

Dad sez ebberbuddie gotz ta be REEL Careful wiffa candle stikz - don't want nunbuddie ta be setting the house ranchez on fire :eek:. Dad asks that allua "younger folks" be sure ta have a Mom or Dad helpin set the stikz alight. Might even be a good idea to get a lektrik candle to put inna front window stead of a burning candle.

Whadda you all think?

[Sudilar]

Cinder and Smokey-Boy, that is a great idea!! We'll do it!!

Thanks, everyone. We need a little of your prayers again. With all that was going on, I wasn't going to bother you all with my worries, but I need all the prayers we can get again. I do know that one day Killi will succumb to this disease, but that should not be for a while yet. I'm hoping that this is not the time. I don't think it is because his mouth is also acting up and I'm hoping the appetite loss is due to this. However, there is not much we can do because the treatment for his mouth can affect his liver. BUT, I am going to request a referral to a mouth Specialist to see if there is anything we can do anyway.

It really hit hard yesterday when the little girl across the street said, "How come Killian isn't big anymore? Why is he so little?" I told her about the disease. Then she said, "When he gets well, will he be big again like he was?" It hurt to tell her that he will never be "big" again like he was. It is such a battle just to keep the weight he has left on him. Sometimes when he won't eat, I get so upset that I yell out at him in extreme desperation to "Go ahead, don't eat, you're gonna die!!!" Then I break down.
I'm even trying to get him to eat things he should avoid because of his liver. At this point anything is better than nothing.

So sorry to trouble you with this, but I just had to get it off my mind and now I feel better saying it. Now I can go on and fight the battle that eventually can't be won, but we will hold it off for as long as we can.

Thanks, Sue

[lizbud]

Sue,
It just breaks my heart to hear that Killian
is not doing well...
The way you spoke of your feelings of anger
and helplessness at this latest turn of events makes me want to just beg heaven to
help You & Killian !!!
Please know that Bud & I think of you guys
often and will pray even harder for you both.
Liz.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Oh Sue, I feel so bad I don't even know what to say except you and Killi are so brave and you are fighting the battle with all your might. If there was anything I could give you or anything I could do for you I would do it in a second. The only thing I can do is pray for you and send the most positive thoughts to you both. Killi is one of ours and it breaks our hearts to see him like that, we all love him so much, please give our brave boy hugs and kisses from all of us.
Jackie

[Daisy's Mom]

Oh Killian, you have to start eating again!! I will pray that you gain some wieght. We love you sweetie!

Sue I know how you feel when you talked to that little girl. Little kids always ask why my dad doesn't talk anymore and we have to explain about his disease. Sometimes they ask when he will talk again... it really hurts. Keep your chin up!

[Albea]

Cinder, Smoke. and Dad:
Thank you for that link. We will lit a candle, very carefully, for our ailing furry friends, and in remembrance of the ones waiting at Rainbow Bridge.
Killian dear, hope this will help you recover very soon. We love you and send you many get well wishes with hugs and kisses.

[KYS]

Sue,
I am so sorry to hear he has taken
a turn for the worse.
I will add Killian to my prayers.

Group hug/prayer from Sheba, Rocky and Pepper too.
}}}^..^{{{

[Sudilar]

Thank you so much everyone. It means so much to me.

[Gio]

Sue, I only just read this. You and Killian are in my thoughts. I wish I had a magic formula to convince him to eat a bit more. Hugs to all.

[Stenograsaurus]

Killian, I am so sorry to hear of your setback. Keep eating, Buddy. I'm sending you a hug and a kiss and lots of prayers.
Sue, my prayers are with you too. I'm so glad you're doing all you can for Killian. A lot of people wouldn't bother going the extra mile. They'd just end it with one trip to the Vet. Keep fighting, both of you.

[karen israel]

C'mon, Killi, you can do it! Mom will make you all your favorite people foods! Please, please Killi for all our sakes, PLEASE get better soon! We've all been so sad lately and you bein sick, just makes all your pals even sadder! You don't want that do you? :( We love you, you and mom are a part of our family! Cody and I are sending you kisses, hugs, puppy rubs and prayers for you to feel better soon and fast!

[RachelJ]

I have to agree with Jackie. You and Killian are so brave and fighting so valently. Killian is lucky to have such a dear Mom like you. Please know that you all are in our thoughts and prayers. We are lighting our candles tonight for all our ailing fur friends.

[shais_mom]

Kylie here, I have to post on the dog board since my sister Shai became an angel last week. I am taking care of momma, licking her tears away and snuggling with her. I know she misses the big goof something fierce.
Mom has been worried about Killi since Shai crossed to the bridge. For some reason he was on her mind. Killi boy, I know you don't know me but my big sis had a crush on you and I know she is worried about you now too. You gotz ta eat!! You are causing your mom way tooooo much stress!! I hope ya start to feel better

[Sudilar]

Thank you, Kylie, and Everybody,
I sure am sorry about Shai. Me and Shiloh will miss her, too. She's your Mom's Little Angel now. It sure does hurt when you lose one of "the Family."

I'm just not hungry too much anymore. Sometimes I eat a little just so I have some energy. Mom is taking me to see the Lady Doc this week for some more testing (I'm gettin' tired of all this). She's in Wednesday-Saturday. Mom says I'm gonna hafta go see a specialist. Do I have to go meet another Doc? Oh well, maybe I'll go eat a piece of chicken that Mom made me. Thanks for carin' everybody. Mom will let you know what the Lady White Coat says. Goodnite for now!

Killi

[Logan]

Killian,
I hope the lady doctor will be able to give your mom some answers and that you will feel better real soon. You just have to eat, Killi,so you'll have the strength to heal.
Sue, I think of you constantly. This is horrible for you to watch, and you must feel so helpless. :(
We will continue to pray for a miracle for Killian.
Logan

[Sudilar]

Killian update:

We visited the vet today. We spent an hour with her. We seem to think that this recent "episode" may be mouth related and not liver related directly. Killian's liver can't remove the poisons from his bloodstream so it seems that the bacteria in his mouth (caused by the gingivitis) just seems to multiply causing havoc in his mouth. (A vicious cycle)! :( He is having another tooth removed tomorrow!! (Like I said before, how scary is a large toothless GSD?) The vet went through her drug book and checked to see what antibiotic is processed through his kidneys instead of his liver and also what anesthetics can be used on him that will not cause his liver any more damage. Luckily she found two which will be used tomorrow. Amoxicillin (Clavamox) is the antibiotic he is on. The liver enzyme test could not be done because the results would be high anyway because of his abcess. The ammonia test is no longer done by a blood test so she will have to research how to do one some other way. I also have a new diet for him that I will have to cook for him everyday. We will fight this til the end. Wish Killi luck on the tooth removal and that he does not react to the meds again. Thank you, Everyone, very much.

Sue and Killi

[Cinder & Smoke]

Hey Killian ~ Try lookin atta brite side of this :rolleyes: ~

After they take anudder toof, it'll be wun less yer Mom tries ta brush! :D An mebee wiffa sore toofy gone, you'll feel like tryin out the new grub yer Mom's gonna cook. Bet you'd make her reel Happie :) iffin ya took sum big bites an akted like ya enjoyed the new stuff.

Sure hope ya starts ta feel better soon ~ Smoke an me are gettin *krampz* wiff all the paw crossin we're doin for ya! Say Hi! to Shiloh, and Dad sends sum {{{Huggz}}} for yer Mom. SmokeMan an me send a whole buncha *schlurrpie kissez* for you! Luv Ya! :cool:

[lizbud]

Sue,
I am wishing Killian every success tomorrow
with the tooth extraction; that all goes well
& only GOOD results !!!!
Will wait to hear how everything goes.
Killian has TONS of fur-buddies wishing him
All The Best !!!!!

[Daisy's Mom]

Hey Killian, it could be worse, sweetie! I am glad you got no really bad news. Keep that furry chin up and get well soon! Good luck tomorrow.

[Sudilar]

Thank you Everyone! I'm hoping removing that tooth will cure his loss of appetite this time!!

[TheAntiPam]

Sue and Killi, your story is a great example of how we can help our fur babies by never giving up. Asking lots of questions, getting another opinion, pushing the doctors to think - that is the right stuff!

I'm so proud of you both, and I hope that the new plans will be a big help. A doggie without a bite does seem strange, but we'll care about sweetie Killian no matter what.

Best wishes from me and my kitty Murf, who has tooth trouble too! He wants to know when I am going to start cooking special food for him.... :eek:

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Killi Man...Having a toofie pulled is icky!! But if it helps my hero, one a my bestest pals, feel better and helps ya to wolf down yer dinner, I'm gonna be real glad fer you and my aunt Sue. I know you'll be real brave. But let us know asap how yer doin. Love, your pals, Star and Cody

[AdoreMyDogs]

Killian, this is Graham. best of luck on your toofie removal. i hope you get better and are reel hungry when you get home and you eat all of that yummy stuff your mamma cooks for you. i am thinking about you, buddy, and i sure do hope everything will go good.
your friend,
Graham

[Gio]

Dear Killi, I hope it went OK at the vet today and that having your tooth pulled will help you eat. Please let us all know how you're doing since we are all thinking of you. Lots and lots of kisses. Love Gio

PS Maya and Prema told me to tell you that they would send you somthing yummy from over here if that would make you eat (Maya has plenty of ideas but she is so greedy and so it does not surprise me one bit)

[karen israel]

So sorry Sue & Killi for missing this thread yesterday..I hope all goes ok today! My Cody told me to tell you that you guys can do a toofless smile contest! Cody is missing 2 on the side, but his big ole tongue covers it and he's still so beautiful. I'm glad the vet took the time to do research beforehand! And I will be praying for you both all day that this helps eliminates Killi's suffering. Love to you from K9 and Cody! xoxo

[Stenograsaurus]

I'm sorry I missed the update on Killian. I hope all goes well for you today, Killi. How many teeth have you lost so far? I hope that the pain from the bad tooth was what was causing you not to eat. I hope you start eating again after it's gone. Let us know how you are doing. I'm still praying for you daily.

[Sudilar]

Hi, All
This time THREE teeth were removed. They were all towards the back. That makes it a total of 6 teeth removed because of the eosinophyllic gingivitis. The anesthetic seems like it was ok for him. Right now he is passed out. They gave him something similar to morphine, so he's really sleeping!! I keep checking on him to see if he is ok. Whenever he has been put out in the past, he always was hyper the rest of the day. This time he's fast asleep! Poor baby. The vet said everything went well. She started him on antibiotics that we will continue to take every month for 5 days out of the month (pulse therapy). This way he should not become immune to the antibiotic and we should be able to keep the bacteria in his mouth under control. We hope. Soon he should be able to eat again.
Hopefully this was the cause of his lack of appetite and not the liver acting up!!

Thanks everyone for your prayers. We truly appreciate all that our friends have done for us!! I don't think I could have gotten through all this without your encouragement! You are the BEST!

Sue and the sleeping Killian

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[Gio]

Hi Killi,
I hope that the anesthetic didn't leave you with any unpleasant side-effects. And since I'm sure you will be feeling better soon can I ask you a small favour? Will you eat something so that all your cyber aunties, uncles and friends will not be so worried? I count on your help. A huge kiss to you.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Gio ]

[Albea]

Hi Killian dear:
Were you dreaming with all the yummy things you'll be able to eat when you wake up from your after-surgery sleep? If so, I'm sure your mom will have them ready for you ;) Get well soon, we are sending all our best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Hi Sue and Killi, I just read this post and poor Killi, he is having such a tough time of it, at least while he is sleeping he is not in pain, that's a lot of teeth to come out at one time. What a strong boy he is to go through all this. Of course our prayers and all the positive thoughts are with you both.
Daisy, Perry and me

[RachelJ]

Killian, I am so sorry that you had to lose more teeth, but I hope that having them out will make your mouth feel better. I've been making myself "smoothies" as a comfort food, putting all kinds of fruits and juices and some milk in the blender and lettin it rip.
Have your mom make you one of them, I think you might like to lap it up. Be sure to have her put some blue berries in it. Real good.

[tatsxxx11]

Are you up yet Killi? Hope your mouth doesn't ouch too much. I think some nice icy cold frosty paws would go down nice an eazy and the cold would make your mouth feel good. Follow it up with a smoothie :) I like mango myself. Hope you feel lots better real soon, and start enjoyin some home cooked yummies real soon. Love, Cody (Star's making zzzzzz's but would want me to say hi to her bud for her :)

[lizbud]

Hi Sue & Killian ....
If all else fails to tempt Killian in the food department, try some cottage cheese and rice(white 5 min. kind).
Buddy inhales it whenever he has a spell
of stomach trouble & doesn't want regular food.Not much chewing involved,so would be
easy on the sore spots.Might be worth a try..
Hope Killian starts to PERK UP real quick!!!
Liz.

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Lizbud that is funny you mentioned rice and cottage cheese. When we had Kona and she had stomach problems the Vet told us to give her a mixture of "cooked rice, cottage cheese and hard boiled eggs". That worked really good for her.
Jackie

[lizbud]

Jackie..
The cottage & rice menu is not my own idea,
but one that my Vet recomended for Buddy..,
so I felt safe in recommending it.
I never thought dogs would like cottage
cheese, but Bud likes it anytime..

[Sudilar]

Hi Eberybuddy,

I sure did get a good snooze. I didn't want to eat anything til 6:00 and then I only ate a little bit. My mouth is still healin'. Mom's special diet for me isn't too hard:

1/4 lb of regular ground beef with the fat
1 large hard cooked egg
2 cups of cooked rice
3 slices of crumbled bread
1 t calcium carbonate
This will equal 1 1/4 lbs of "dog food"

Maybe I'll eat more tomorrow.

I'm still kind of tired......thanks for thinking of me......good nite....zzzzzzzzz

Love, Killi

[Daisy's Mom]

Killi I am glad you're eating. Your menu sounds pretty good! Keep your fuzzy little chin up and get well soon.

[RachelJ]

Hannah and Tucker checking in to see how Killian is feeling today. That food your mom's making sounds mighty good to us. Hope you feel a little better today.

[lizbud]

Dear Killian,
Buddy (before he flopped over& went to sleep)
told me to be sure and check in with You & see how you are feeling today..Also sends
All Good Wishes to Your Momma Sue & Shiloh!!
Hope you're doing Better each day!!!!
Lizbud.

[Sudilar]

Hi, All,

Thanks for asking about me. This morning I ate and I felt pretty good, so I went on the "Strut Your Mutt" walk fundraiser for the animal shelter me and Shiloh came from. I was feeling pretty good, so after a while after I came home, I ate some more, but....I threw it all up!! Ugh! So I slept some more and then thought I'd try some of Shiloh's Eukanuba and so far it stayed down. I'm goin' back to sleep again. I did have fun meetin' all those dogs who were adopted from the same shelter we came from, though. Lots of people said me and Shiloh were beautiful. It made us feel good!! :) :)
Bye for now!
Killi

[Sudilar]

OK. It looks like Killian made it through this episode. It seems like this was mouth related. He's eating again!! I think he made it through this because of all of your prayers and best wishes. The power of prayer can create miracles! Thank you everyone!!!

[Logan]

Well, Hallelujah!!! :D :D You go Sue!! You go, Killian!!! What wonderful news.

[Sudilar]

I guess I didn't realize how deadly this disease is. I've just recently joined a canine liver disease bb and found out that any one of these "episodes" could become fatal very quickly. Just in the last week, two members lost their dogs quite quickly to the disease. I'm glad that this episode was a result of Killi's mouth and not his liver. This is scary.

[Gio]

I'm so relieved that Killian started to eat again. Way to go Killi.

[3-greys-and-a-mutt]

So glad that Killi has bounced back! We'll keep thinking of him in our prayers, so that he doesn't ever get hit with an awful 'episode!'

[jackiesdaisy1935]

So glad Killi bounced back, he sure is a brave soul and of course we continue to pray for him and think positive thoughts.
Jackie

[Stenograsaurus]

I am always a little leary when I pull this post up. I worry so much about Killi. I am so glad it was mouth related and he is feeling better now. Keep up the good work, Killi. I know this is a scary time for you, Sue. Unfortunately, you're doing all you can for your boy. My prayers and thoughts are with you frequently.

[tatsxxx11]

That's our Killi! You are just the best Killian. What a brave boy. We love you SO much!!!! I'm so happy I could burst. Keep up the good fight. EVERYONE'S on your side and rooting for Killi. Remember the Killi cheer from a while back???

Killi, Killi he's our man
He can do it
We know he can!!!!! :)

[AdoreMyDogs]

Killian, I am very pleased to see that you are feeling better and eating again. I, also, am so nervous to open this thread to read the latest news just in case it's not good. I will continue praying for you so you will never have an episode again :) We all love you, Killi Man, and so it's real important that you stick around for a long, long time :)

[Daisy's Mom]

Killian I knew you could pull through this! We love you sweetie! You jsut have to get better with this many people on your side!

[Sudilar]

Killian update:

Good news this time.
Killian is eating heartily now. In fact, I think he is gaining weight!!!!!!!! Don't want to get too excited, though, but he's starting to look good!!!!!!! I think all your prayers have done this!! Thank you, all, a million times!!

Sue

[TheAntiPam]

Thanks for the update on our buddy Killian! We'll keep that "cautious optimism" going for him to continue improving and gaining some weight. After such a long struggle, and with so many other disheartening events lately, its terrific to hear a bit of good news!

C'mon Killi, keep going! We're still hoping and praying for ya! And we're proud of you and your mom for being so strong!

[KYS]

Woo WOO woo!!! GREAT NEWS!!
Keep it up, we are all routing for you. :D

[RachelJ]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11:
<STRONG> Remember the Killi cheer from a while back???

Killi, Killi he's our man
He can do it
We know he can!!!!! :)</STRONG>


Alright Sandra, we're letting it rip at our house in celebration of the good report from Sue.

[Sudilar]

Hehehe!!!!! Thanks, Guys!!!!! :) :)

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Yaaaaa The sun is shining just for Killian, o.k. good friend time to gain some weight.

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/032/mi/Xs/U7/Gp80098.jpg

Perry and Daisy

[tatsxxx11]

YIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I am so happy I could shout!! And cry!!! And cheer! Wooooo Wooooo!!! Good Boy Killi!!! Try and keep it up :) We're celebrating tonight! Love You SOOOO much Killi!!!!


Love, Sandra, Cody and Star!

Killi, Killi, He's our man
He can do it
We know he can!!
Yay, Killi!!

[ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[Cinder & Smoke]

Way to go, Killian! :D

Good teefs = good appetite, huh guy?
Be sure to keep lookin *hongree* after the regalur food is all gone - that's when ya get sum extree *Treatz*!

We all knew ya could do it, Killian!

[Daisy's Mom]

GO KILLI GO!!!!

Daisy and I are throwing a party! ;)

[zippy-kat]

YAY KILLI!!!!!!

Keep it up Sweetie!
Sophie and I send kisses your way!

[lizbud]

YIPPEEEEE KILLIAN !!!!!!!
I am SOOOO Happy to hear that you're wolfin
down the good stuff!!!!!God Love YA Big Guy.
Keep up the good work! Prayers are still
coming your way for You & your Momma....

[Phred]

Hey Killian ~ How'z ya feeling, Big Guy? :D

It's been more than a month since we heard from you! Are you still munchin on the Good Stuff yer getting inna grub bowl?

Ask yer Mom ta give you sum puter time so's you can give us all an update. Hope you have some good Tails to tell! :D

We're still Crossin Pawz an sayin Prayers for ya! Hang in there and Get BETTER!

[Logan]

I was wondering the same thing, Phred! Sue, update us on your Killian when you can. :)

Logan

[tatsxxx11]

Just in case the Killi man is buzy this weekend, thought I'd give yuz all an update. Killi man wrote me jest this Halloween.....He's doin great! And though his momma wouldn't fork over the choco krunchies like he wanted, she treated Killi and Shi to burgies wif rice, bread, eggs and all kinds a yummies and the "kid" is wolfin it all down! Check in an tell em yerself when yuz gits a chance Killi! Love from Star
P.S. Hope yuz didn't mind me woofin in for ya, Killi...

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[Sudilar]

Thank youse for thinkin' of me. Mom's puter servers guys couldn't get us connexted yesterday and Mom was upset cause she couldn't talk to you guyz!

Thank you, Star-Shine, for tellin' about me. It's an honor to have you report on me. I'm a lucky dog to have you as my friend!! (and she's cute, too http://www.plaudersmilies.de/love/luvlove.gif ......)! Huh? Oh! I'm feelin' real, real good right now (won't say that too loud or I'll jinx myself he-he)! I started takin my monthly antibiotix treatment for 5 days a month and maybe that'll keep me feelin good and no "episodes" will happen. Even Dad said he thinks I'm lookin pretty good again. I did gain weight, Mom says so!! When I go back to the white coat lady, we'll see how much, but Mom says I look normal again!!! :D I have to eat that cooked food everyday, but I eat it all up. It's mostly rice and bread with not enough ground beef (if ya ask me) and egg. Shiloh likes it too, but she'll eat anything. She's on Eukanuba large breed reduced fat dog food and she likes that. She's loosin a little weight, too. So everythin is lookin good at my house at the moment. See, all those prayers DO work!!!! Thank you all so very much!!!

Love, Killi

[RachelJ]

Killian, we are so happy for you. Your Mom is the bestest Mom. She takes such good care of her big fella. I know you love her too.

Rachel, Hannah & Tucker

[sammi]

So happy you are better Killian!

[Albea]

What good news Killian!!! We are so happy to learn you are doing well. Keep on gaining weight and think how lucky you are to be able to munch as much as you like when some other of your Pet Talk friends have to be on a diet :D :D :D Love and kisses from Carina and Alicia.

[Stenograsaurus]

wooohoooo!!! I'm doing the happy dance!!! I'm so glad things are looking good for you guys!! Good job, Killian.

[K9karen]

YYYAAAA HHHOOOOO!
You GO Killi Boy! :D :D

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Killian, we are so happy that you are feelin like your ole self, just keep eatin the good stuff, your Mom is the best.
Love Dais and Per :)

[Daisy's Mom]

Hurray Killi!!!!!!

[Logan]

Sue,
I've had Killian on my mind since Saturday. How's he doing? Is the appetite any better???

Please update us when you can. You have lots and lots of people praying for you out here.

Logan :)

[Sudilar]

Thank you, Logan and everyone, for the prayers. He still isn't eating very much again. I gave him all of his medicine and that didn't help. However, this time, he is at least eating something, even if it isn't the ground beef/rice/egg/bread concoction he is supposed to eat. I gave him some chicken and he ate it. If this keeps up, I'll have to call the vet again and see if she has any ideas. I'm on the canine liver bb and Killian is doing exactly what their dogs have done. They are fine for a while and then the disease strikes again. It is so sad because just when everything seems to be going well, BAM! It hits. I was sure we had this under control, but now even the antibiotics didn't work. He is still playing with Shiloh, though, and not moping around, so that's good. Every time this happens I think of all the dogs on the liver bb that didn't pull through. That is what is going to happen in the end. I've learned a lot from them. It is so frustrating. They said that we have to enjoy every good day that we have with them because it can end so quickly. Well, at least he is eating a little. Maybe tomorrow he'll eat a little more. Thanks for all your prayers. I know they help a great deal!!

Sue and Killi

[zippy-kat]

Oh Killi, kisses to you for being such a brave boy. But please, please, please eat so mommy and others won't worry about you!

Sue, you are still in my prayers.

{{hugs}}
Tonya

[tatsxxx11]

Dear Sue. You know how much I adore Killi and Shiloh. You have been the best, bravest, most caring Mom. I don't have to tell YOU how this horrible disease has it's good and bad cycles. It is so hard on us parents. As I told you long ago, I went through this with my Rainbow Angel Jingles, and I know what you are going through completely. Star, Cody and I WILL NOT allow ourselves to think that this is anything more than a brief set back. Please know that EVERY day we think of you all and send you our love, straight from our hearts. Hang in their Killi. We love you. Sandra, Star and Cody

[RachelJ]

Sue I didn't realize Killian had hit another rough patch. I guess I must have missed one of your posts somewhere else. I'm so sorry that he is having more trouble. We all will be thinking of him and praying that he will regain his appetite and his spirit.

[Sudilar]

Thank you all. I know I can count on you to help me through this again. Killi is still the same today. He ate a little at least. It is always so scary because I know that any one of these can be his last and it goes so fast (as seen repeatedly on the canine liver disease bb). How terribly sad. However, his spirit is still up and he just doesn't know that he has to eat. :( Well, he WILL pull through this again, I'm confident that all your prayers will help again!! Thanks everyone.

[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Sue, I haven't checked in a while, sorry to hear Killi is having problems, we will be thinking of him and praying that he will keep his strength and eat better. He has been through so much and we will think positive thoughts for him. Hug and kisses to Killi from Daisy and Perry and me

[tatsxxx11]

Hey Killi! Cody here...Just checkin in on my half-brother and sister, sorta...I'm half purebred GSD! And, while I know I'm not nearly as purrrrty as you guyz, I feel a real kinship with my pals, Killi and Shiloh. How are ya feelin Killi Man? Have you and Shi made out yer Crismy lists? I don't have to tell you what's nummer #! on mine and Star's. Check in when ya kan. Love, yer pals, Cody and Star

[Logan]

Me too, Sue....I have certainly been wondering about Killian. I hope he's eating again....let us know, good or bad. We want to be here for you. Lots and lots of prayers coming you way still. :)

[Sudilar]

Hello, Killi here.

Thank you for askin bout me! I feel a little better now. I'm eatin more and more. Mom is givin me medicine for my mouth every day sose my mouth doesn't send germs to my liver and the liver doesn't tell me I'm not hungry. I just don't unnersand this liver!

Cody, you are beautiful!! I think so! Thank you and Star for axin Santa to make me better. I think he gave me an early present. I'm gettin my appetite back again! Mom axed for the same present, too.

Thank you Aunt Sandra and Aunt Logan for thinking of me. Sending you a great big slurp (and I do have a big mouth)!! Thanks everyone again and again. Mom says that sometimes she feels like a prayer hog. She doesn't wanna keep axin for xtra prayers so much, but I can't help it if I keep gettin episodes. We know that all your prayers are makin me better every time an episode comes on!

Have a great holly-daze season! Slurps to all!
Killi

[Albea]

Hi Killian! This is Carina. I'm so happy to know you're getting better and your apetite has come back. Great holiday news!
Have a wonderful, healthy Christmas and New Year, with no more trips to the "white coat" guy for a while. :)

[tatsxxx11]

Killi, Star here! Cody, mom and I are sooooooooo relieved!!!! You've made our Christmas wish come true! We wuv you and Shi and send you lots of kisses and head butts and high fives :) Keep it up Killi!! Love, yer pals, Star and Cody

[Cinder & Smoke]

Hi, Killian ~

We're sure happie that yer back to eat'n summa yer grub again! Member that Crismus is comin inna few daze - Ya gotta get yer strength up so's ya can help Sandie Pawz haul all yer treats and toyz :) in unner the Tree!

You an Shiloh need ta start doin allu 'rite stuff' (like eatin yer grub) so Sandie Pawz will stop at yer chimney and leave lotsa new thingies for ya!

SmokeMutt an me are askin the Big Guy inna Red Outfit ta leave summa our stuff at your houze - We hope that'll make you and Shiloh feel more better.

Best wishez and Prayers to you guyz an yer Mom for a reely Happie Hollidaze!! :D

[Sudilar]

Hey Cinders and Smoke! Thanks for askin Santa to give me and the Shi-one some of your presents. That makes me feel real good. The furkids here are some of the bestest friends a dog can have! I think Santa's got somethin hidden at our house for me and the Shi. I can smell it on the top of the ar-ma-wa dresser in the bedroom high up in the air. I just sniff and I smell bones!!! I think there are some stuffy squeaky things there too. Shiloh smells it cause she goes in there and stares at the top of that dresser. :) Have a great hollyday with lots of goodies and some slurps from the humans!!

Killi

[KYS]

Woof Woof! We are glad you are feeling better.
I can't imagaine not wanting to eat.
Have fun finding all your presents.

ROcky, Sheba and Pepper

[tatsxxx11]

Woof, Woof!!! Star here, Killi! You can have ALL my presents too! And, if you want, I can have Santa and the raindears drop me off at your place Chrissmy day and I could help you and Shi hunt for for yours!! :D Mmmmmmmm! I can almost smell the bonz and hear that stuffie squeaking from here! Love to you Killi, my bud. And kisses to the Shi-one of course! Yer pals, Star and Cody

[tatsxxx11]

Ooops, pawed off too soon! ROCKSTER, how's yer paw pad doing? Have you been let outta jail yet, runnin and jumpin and stuff? I had a buzzzer stick me inna paw pad this summer. Ouch! Hope yer all healed! Love to you Rocky, Sheba and Pepper from yer pals, Star and Cody :)

[KYS]

Thanks Star and Cody,
Still under house arrest,
But my toe is looking better.

Thanks for asking about me.
Going to a different vet on Tuesday,
so I am sure he will look at my paw. :(
It will feel good again to be able to
chase the squirrels.
Ouch! That must have
smarted a stinger in your paw! Bad BUG!!
Slurrpy hugs to you guys, your pal
ROcky. :D

[Sudilar]

Killi, here.
Not eatin' again. Got the pukies and the runs. Hope I'm not goin back to another episode. :( Their gettin too close together.

Why don't all you furpups come on over for Crismiss and we'll raid Santa's toy bag when he comes donna chimney-hole? Won't he be surprised to see allus dogs greetin him? Ha! We could share those bones sittin in the bedroom upstairs, too. I axed Mom to make cookies but leave out that toxic chocolate stuff though.
[Carrie...don't read this part!]
Gotta tell ya somethin funny. Last night I stole Mom's spot on the bed and she slept on the floor!! I gave her those "Oh, I don't feel good eyes and I'm feelin better onna big bed in YOUR spot, Mom. Shiloh won't move for me, so what can I do?..." Well, I moved out of her way later cause I had to go patrol the house. Moms..... gotta love em!

Bye for now! Killi

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Sudilar ]

[lizbud]

Sue,
So very sorry to hear that you & Killian
have to go through this again.I know you
would move heaven and earth if it would
help Killi..It just breaks my heart to hear
that he has to go thru these episodes, it
must be 1000 times worse for you to try and
keep up a positive attitude & emotions in
check..Want you to know that Buddy & I wish
you many many happier times ahead..
You & Killian are in my thoughts and
prayers...

[RachelJ]

Oh, Killian, don't be doing that, the not eating part... the part about taking her spot on the Big Bed is okay dokey but it is more better if she is up there next to you where you can stick you poker feet into her ribs.

signed, Hannah

[Cinder & Smoke]

Hi, Killian ~ Sorrie ya got the "tummie *ugh's*" agin...

Work on tryin ta eat sum grub so's ya feel good for Chrismus - ya wanna be in good shape for openin yer :) presunts. Don't furgetz ta help Mom an Shiloh hang yer sokz onna mantle - Bet Sandie Pawz will fill em up wiff speshul *treetz* that will taste good :D.

We're Prayen and crossin Pawz that you getz a special presunt this year - Fellin Good :) Again!

Yer pallz...

[sammi]

Is that really you Phred?????? :D

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by sammi:
<STRONG>Is that really you Phred?????? :D</STRONG>

Yep! That's Zippy-Kat's pixshure of Our Dad, doin his Phreddy Firefighter thing...

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/031/x9/9I/Ll/EC53601.jpg

Sumtimes he furgetz ta take a Fire Truk... :rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Sue & Killian should get a Good Chuckle
out of this one.It's very cute Phred !!!
Thanks to Zippy-Cat for the drawing the
picture !!! Thanks for the laugh...

[AdoreMyDogs]

Killi...I am SO sorry to hear about this episode :( You are such a good boy, and so brave, you HAVE to get better because we all love you SO much. You are exactally what my future dream dog is like, both in looks and in good personality. You are a special dog and you are very loved by alot of people. I hate to think of you not eating and getting sick, I sure do hope that this one passes quick and you get all back to normal again.

Sue, it's because of his teeth, right? I am sure you have already tried this, but brushing his teeth twice a day with floride doggie toothpaste probablly wouldn't help, right? I just don't know what else to say :( Please, Killi man, get better! No more runs or pukies, and skipping meals!

[Sudilar]

He-he-he, funny Phred!

Killi's eating on and off now. If he eats, it's only half as much as he used to. He still has his playful moments, though. He doesn't lay around ALL day, moping.

Leslie, it's because of his liver disease which sends bacteria into his bloodstream. In his case, it seems to show up in his mouth. His mouth is ok at this time, he's just not eating much. It's a vicious circle.

Oh well, we'll take one day at a time. (sigh)

[KYS]

Killi, still thinking of you.
Feel better ALL the time.

Sheba, Rocky and Pepper.

[tatsxxx11]

The computer Gods had me out of the loop for a couple of days. But Killi, your thread was the first one we checked on. We want so badly for you to be feeling better for Chrissmy. You are the best doggie pal to Star and Cody and we all love you so much. Just wanted you to know we are praying and thinking of our most beautiful, loving and brave friend every day. And if any doggie deserves "the big bed," it's YOU! :) Hope you're feeling a little better each day. Love from Sandra, Cody and Star

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

[zippy-kat]

Ok--I'm playin' catch-up!

Killi dawgie hope you are feeling much much better by the time you read this! You're in my prayers sweet one!

And since Mizzer Phred won't post his pikture, I found one for him! lol