I Am So Mad!!

[Desert Arabian]

(WARNING: THIS IS MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME)

Ok, so I am at school. It is 7th hour, and I walk into my Biology class. I walk over to my seat, which is right next to the counters and sinks, and I notice these big thick plastic bags on the counter. They were laying in shallow long dishes. I really didn't think much of it, and I set down my backpack, and I looked over at the counter. To my horror, I discover CATS in the bag! Dead, skinned (some of them), dissected cats TWO FEET AWAY FROM ME & MY DESK!

I wanted to cry so bad, one of the kitties was orange- it made me think of my Sammy. Some of my (female) classmates walked in the room and saw the cats and they all started screaming. I had to switch seats with Wes, there was no way I could sit next to those poor kitties. Somebody asked the teacher were they get the cats from and she said they where all stray cats who were put to sleep and donated to the school to be dissected.

WHY DO THEY HAVE TO USE CATS!?!?!??! I really don't have a problem with frogs, fish, worms, cow eye balls, etc- BUT WHY CATS? No way in hell am I going to dissect cats!

And of course some guys walked into the class and saw the cats and poked fun at them and made rude comments about cats.

UGH, I am so sad & upset. I had to rant. I am sorry.

:( :( :( :( :( :(

[Logan]

I think you know by now that I am a pet lover....and I own cats.

When I was in the 11th grade, we dissected a cat in our anatomy class. Four of us worked on one....that "cat" was even at my mother's dining room table, believe it or not, so we could prepare for our exam. At first, I thought I couldn't handle it, but you know what, I did. There is a mental state you have to get yourself into to handle these dissections, but you know our vets and our human doctors have to get experience somewhere.

I had the same issues with frogs, fetal pigs and of then the cat. But it was for learning....no abuse, just learning the facts about that cat's anatomy and how it compared to human anatomy.

I'm sorry it was tough for you. Loving animals the way we do, things like that will probably always be hard.

Logan

[Desert Arabian]

Yeah, I am sure I could probably get over it and dissect a cat. It just caught me off guard, I mean, I am not used to looking at skinned cats laying on a counter!

:eek: :eek:

[catcrazylady]

How ASOLUTELY HORRIBLE!! Especially to someone who loves cats!! It's sickening enough to have to see something like that but it just makes you think about the bigger picture. Those poor little kitties were just like all of ours but nobody loved them.http://petoftheday.com/talk/images/our_smilies/frown.gif It breaks my heart just hearing it so I can only imagine what it must have been like to actually see it! I'm so sorry for you and so sorry for all the lost kitties who will meet the same fate because people are so STUPID!!
Ok, before I go ballistic, we have to hold onto what good people like us are doing. The sad truth is that no matter how hard we all try we can't do it all. If you stop and think back not so long ago there was no such thing as a no kill shelter or places like Best Friends. A lot of innocent animals have died in the past but things are slowly improving! Maybe, just maybe, people like all the PT talkers are making a difference! Just keep praying that what you saw today will soon be a thing of the past!! The only thing we can do is to turn the anger into something positive. Keep supporting no kill shelters and try our best to convince IDIOTS that animals have feelings and need love just like we do.
I'm sorry you had to experience something like thathttp://petoftheday.com/talk/images/our_smilies/frown.gif It must have been horrible.

[jenluckenbach]

It would have been unbearable to me as well. I simply have a super soft spot when it comes to cats. I had NO problem doing frogs in school, but if I had been asked to do a cat.........:eek:It is the same for dead animals on the road.....I can handle seeing groundhogs, squirrels even deer, but when I see a dead cat I bawl my eyes out. :(

[bisi.cat]

This seems so strange to me!!!

Okay, we don't have to do this at any school form over here, no dissections at all...no frogs, no cats, no animals...and I really wonder, what should it be good for?!

Is this the approach how we should handle animals that is taught at schools?! Do we have to cut them to learn more about them?!
There are so many good books about biology and plastic models so I really can't bear the idea of students cutting animals to pieces...

I know that it is important for people who are at University and become a doctor or vet, but I can't see any sense in doing this at a school...

I can feel how you must have felt YellowLabLover...
Maybe there is another way to learn more about biology and body functions than dissecting animals?!

I don't want to offend anyone, but this dissection of animals is not a part of biology classes at schools in Germany...it's sometimes so strange how different some things are handled in other countries and I hope you all don't mind my point of view here, but I am totally against this and I can't see any proper reason for dissecting...

[Logan]

I wanted to clarify one thing. The Anatomy class I was taking was a college level class that I chose to take, thinking I was going to go into the medical field. It was not a mandatory class for anyone.

But to answer your question, bisi.cat, I think perhaps the frog dissection is about as heavy as it gets for the normal Biology student in the US, of course, I'm only basing that on my small knowledge base of SC, specifically the community I grew up in and the one I live in now. And truly, as bad as it sounds, I don't think one can really understand all the different systems of the body without "seeing" the real thing. That was the importance.

[BastetsMum]

Isn't there a law where you live that if you have a fundamental objection to dissection that you are exempt from it?

I certainly couldn't do that to a cat. Its barbaric and inhumane. We have better facilities and technology to see comparisons without traumatising our brains. It just sickens me that dissection of ANY animal still goes on in this day and age. Here I was sitting in my ivory tower thinking how advanced we are and we still have to cut, stab, butcher animals to find out what makes them tick. SICK.

BTW I am not a vegetarian and that is a whole different story - I just personally don't think anyone gains anything from this.

[stacwase]

Now come on. We dissect PEOPLE! So what's wrong with dissecting cats? They're dead. You're learning. They can't feel it. They weren't killed just so that you could dissect them - they would have died anyway.

Just do your best to think of your cat as an object and not as a pet while you're doing your work. Block it out of your mind. Once the skin has been taken back, it will be OK. Maybe you won't have to participate while it still looks like a kitty. Maybe you could get out of that part - call in sick or something! Then when the hard part is over, you'll be shocked at how easy it is.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by stacwase
Now come on. We dissect PEOPLE! So what's wrong with dissecting cats? They're dead. You're learning. They can't feel it. They weren't killed just so that you could dissect them - they would have died anyway.

IT'S LIKE CUTTING UP MY SAMMY (& Dudley)! Especially when I saw that orange one! :(

The job that I want to do when I graduate, is it going to have anything to do with the anatomy of a cat? NO! So I don't need to learn about it!

Have you dissected a cat before? Have you seen a skinned cat before? Have you seen a cat with its stomach ripped open? Blech!!

:( :( :( :(

[Cataholic]

Stacwase-
Wow. I want to keep this polite, but, WOW. I couldn't disagree with your attitude more. I found your response quite intolerant, and insensitive. WOW WOW!

It is NOT necessary to dissect ANY animal in a high school biology class, just like it isn't necessary to have sex to sit through 8th grade health.

We are very intelligent life forms, with the ability to learn in ways other than by doing. I objected to all forms of dissection. I managed to graduate high school, college and law school by sticking to my guns.

WOW.
:(

[stacwase]

I apologize for my insensitivity.

But just because dissection bothers some people - that doesn't mean it's immoral! They're not being mean to cats, just like we're not being mean to people when we do it. Really - if it's OK for people it should be OK for animals, too.

So - maybe it's wrong to make the children do it. OK - not maybe. It is definitely wrong. But it's cruelty to children, not animals.

Schools should keep in mind that there are some children who won't use anatomy and physiology in their future careers and should make the dissection portion of the class optional. But I really don't think that dissection is cruelty to animals or is immoral in any way.

What IS immoral and cruel is that people allowed the cats to be born when there is already an overpopulation of cats. The people who are wrong are the people who don't have their animals spayed or neutered. If they had their animals altered, then all these cats wouldn't be put to sleep and wouldn't be available to high school biology classes.

Once again - I apologize for being insensitive.

[wolfsoul]

There are jars of disected cats in my biology room. :( Also rats, pigs, starfish, mussels, among other things. Seeing the rats makes me the saddest. :(

I thinkthat disecting is discusting. Why don't they use books? Why dont they use chalkboards? NOOO They HAVE to use the real thing. WHY? It isn't any more educating, and it's also discusting. :mad:

[catcrazylady]

I know I have already posted once but I have to say that I see no need for this in High School!! It is just another form of desensetizing some kids to the welfare of animals! There are enough animal mis-guided kids already, so I see no sense in adding this to very impressionable minds!!! Not to mention the trauma for those with much loved cats at home!
I agree that they are already dead and the reason behind that is the sad part. It all goes back to "The big picture". Have your pets spayed or nuetered and stop the killing of those that are already here!!!!

[stacwase]

I see your point, cataholic. And I know it is extremely difficult for people who love cats. We didn't do cats in high school - we did frogs. In regular college biology we dissected pigs, and of course in human biology we dissected humans.

I have found the information I learned in those experiences to be extremely valuable. In fact, the information I learned through dissection has actually saved human lives. But I'm an ICU nurse. Not everybody is going into fields where this will be useful to them, and those people shouldn't be subjected to the emotional trauma.

I think I should delete my original, insensitive post. Is that Kosher, or are we not supposed to delete posts?

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by stacwase
Now come on. We dissect PEOPLE!
But we don't breed people for the purpose of cutting them up and playing with their insides.

[Uabassoon]

While I don't think that someone in an entry level bio class should be dissecting a cat, I agree kind of agree with stacwase. Keep in mind that I am saying it is NOT ok for an entry level bio class. But in college when you are studying any medical field dissection is a big part of learning. If my cat needed surgery I want to be comfortable in the fact that my vet has had a good education, and that includes him working on dead animals before he got to work with the live ones. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with a vet if the first time he saw the inside of a cat was my when he was operating on my cat.


But we don't breed people for the purpose of cutting them up and playing with their insides

As far as I know these cats aren't bred for dissection, usually the companies go to the humaine societies and collect animals that have already passed on.

We do the exact same thing with humans. Doctors to practice on human cadavers when they are in school.

But like I said earlier I really see no point in doing this for an entry level bio class.

[BastetsMum]

I would like to point out that humans have a CHOICE to be disected after they die. Animals (of any kind) do not. That is what annoys me the most. We treat animals like they are to be exploited not as a gift from the Gods to be utilised in a way that we see fit as a society. I don't believe disection at highschool level is one of those areas of utilisation.

However, I do agree at college and university level I would prefer the vets of the future to be using euthanised animals for means of learning about diseases and *doing* surgery. I cannot see anything wrong with that. I am sure the animals would think the same.

[bluekat]

omg, I know how you feel:( My sister said that her school disects black cats. Bags of them too:( She said that they're from the street.
I hate how humans just have to kill animals for no reason. Here's what I think. If we can dissect animals, why not dissect humans?
Animals have no choice, if a human plans to kill them, they do:(

[Sia1]

I don't normally post here but I do feel very strongly about this posting. I have three cats, and when I was a senior in high school we had to dissect a cat. Yes, it wasn't very pleasant--I hated every moment of it...but now I'm a graduate student at a Veterinary college. Vet student perform surgery, dissections, you name it...to learn how to properly care for your animals.
It sickens me that people aren't responsible and don't spay and neuter their animals. I also realize that there are thousands of animals being PTS in shelters because no one wanted them. No, these animals did not have a choice on being born or when they would die...but at least they are being used to help others. These cats can at least be used to further education, instead of just being thrown away. Students need hands-on training; not just a book or some interactive learning.
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, I love my cats as much as anyone here. I just feel that if these animals are going to die (and thousands do die whether we like it or not) that they can at least be used for some good.

[Uabassoon]

hate how humans just have to kill animals for no reason. Here's what I think. If we can dissect animals, why not dissect humans?


Actually humans are dissected. Medical students work with cadavers, in case you aren't sure what that is, it's the dead body of a human.

[All Creatures Great And Small]

I guess what really bothers me about it is that they used an animal that is commonly kept as a pet, and an animal that unfortunately is more often the victim of abuse by teens than dogs or other animals. This is just not a good age group to be showing dead cats to, especially with Halloween right around the corner. It just reinforces the idea that it's "OK" to mess with cats, and if they are used for lab work, they must be a "lesser" creature, not a potential cherished pet. You know, they put an awful lot of dogs to sleep every year too, but I don't hear about schools using dead dogs for dissection. I am so tired of cats being considered the "second class" citizens of the pet world, at least in this part of the country.

[popcornbird]

They do disect humans actually. Doctors do.........and they need to. Imagine a doctor doing surgery without actually experimenting on an animal/human beforehand. They need to cut them open to learn.......there's just no way out. BUT.............I think its absolutely unneccessary in school. Its important for students in the medical field, in college, going to be doctors, but why should an average school kid have to disect? Why should a kid that's going to be a computer science, etc. major in the future need to disect animals? I think disection should be left for college, depending on what field a student is going into.

Personally, I *hate* disections..........absolutely makes me cringe. I've done a frog, and a cow's eye, but when they brought a cat, I refused to do it. I just refused.........I said I won't. They were fine with it and let me go.

My mom majored in microbiology, so she had to disect just about everything..........frogs, cats, rabbits, all those cute furries. :( She said she hated it, but because it was her major, she had to.

I'm going to tell a story..........that if you don't have the heart to read, stop right here. Just a warning for the more sensitive folks.

My friend told me when her aunt was going in the medical field to become a doctor, she had to disect all sorts of animals. She told me at the end of the 2nd year, they called them in for a test. A test to determine if they had the heart, mind, and capability to actually become a doctor. They called the students in, and brought the most precious dog...........a white fluffy gorgeous dog. She said it was the most beautiful dog her aunt had ever seen. Anyway, the teachers told the students.......if they could stand to see the dog killed, opened, and worked on, they should stay. If they can't, leave the class and forget about being a doctor. Half the class left. Her aunt stayed.
Anyway, they killed the poor dog somehow.........think put him to sleep, and then began cutting him open, to study his organs and body parts and all that stuff. Her aunt stayed, she worked with it and finished. After completing the disection, she fainted. Really, she just couldn't take it. I don't think I would've gone as far to let myself faint. I would've run out and dropped the becoming a doctor future. Anyway, she said when she finally awoke, she came home crying, and crying and crying. Then she fainted again. It was so hard on her. Its not an easy thing. Really painful, especially for an animal lover. :( Its not only killing the animal, but its messing around with its organs and stuff that I cannot take. I just can't see that for hours straight you know. I can't. :( Her aunt dropped out of the medical field, because they told her this was a test if they could take it...........and a human was next. She said no way, bye, and forgot about it. :o

My uncle's a doctor too, and he tells me of how many humans he's had to disect. Grosses me out. Bleh.

[carole]

What everyone is saying making sense, one way or another, but personally I am opposed to dissection of cats, I think at least the students should have a say as to whether they wish to participate in this procedure, for me I would be out of there smartly.

Whereas it might be ok for vet students to do this, I think there is a purpose there, but with students in a high school classroom, I fail to see how much they will benefit from doing this. Just MHO.