Something that has been bothering me

[aly]

I know a ton of you will get mad at me for posting this, but it is really bugging me and I sort of need to get it off my chest.

I know the Dog House is for controversial topics, but I don't think it is a place for complete vulgarness. This is still a family site, and quite frankly, from what I've seen in this section, I would never let my own child on to this site.

I'm not prude by any means and I'm sure worse things have come out of my mouth than what I've read here. However, I would never say anything remotely close to any of that here on a public forum and in front of young children.

I know some of you will tell me to just not read the topics here, but its not myself I'm worried about. I feel bad that kids have access and are reading it. Trust me, I am not easily offended.

So I guess this is a plea to tone down the crudeness for our youngins' sakes.

[Aspen and Misty]

So true Aly! I'm worried to invite my friends here because PT has become such a adult based web page.

Verry well said Aly! I agree 100%


Ash

[micki76]

Have to agree. I was reading the “Where did it go” thread and if my kids were on here I’d be ticked off about some of the stuff in there.

Sorry guys, but maybe we should take it down a notch.

[Kater]

I agree!

Don't forget this....

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

[G.P.girl]

i disagree. i am a kid and i have no problem
reading that stuff. the doghouse is actually
my favorite forum. i like being able to have
contraversial discussions because i like to
agrue. just because i read something sex-oriented that doesn't mean that i am going to go out and have sex the second i get off the computer. adults are too protective of us kids *innocent minds* .
if it bothers anyone they dont have to read it.

but i can se how adults think that it is bad for kids to read "bad" things on the internet.

[Kfamr]

I agree with you Aly....

What really makes me sick is when alcohol is being spoken about.
Probably the number 1 thing I hate, alcohol.

[micki76]

Thanks for posting that Kate. This is a Family site and I know it can't be completely G rated or we couldn't have such great debates, let's try to keep it so that my niece can check out PT when she's at my house. She's only 9.

[Karen]

Good topic, Aly. As I posted in the other thread, please always keep in mind that children visit our website. We work hard to keep Pet of the Day, Dog of the Day and Cat of the Day family-friendly websites. Younger children may not be allowed to register for Pet Talk, but they can certainly read it, and we know some do. And most of Pet Talk is perfectly fine. We are mainly a community of kind, friendly, knowledgeable, pet-loving folks. Any "questionable" "humor" would best be kept to Private Messages, in my humble opinion.

[Tonya]

I guess I don't read the Dog House often enough, or I'm crude because I haven't noticed.

[Tonya]

BTW, Aly, good subject. I agree. Sometimes I forget how young some of our members are. But we do need to remember the younger crowd.

[G.P.girl]

i've been reading some of the older posts and i guess you're right. we have gotten worse. but not too much worse.i guess i just forget that younger kids use this site too.

[jenluckenbach]

Reading this makes me GLAD that I stay (mostly) away from the dog house. I have been know to look at the first post of a dog house thread, but hardly ever venture deeper. I repeat.......I am GLAD that I do not.

[2kitties]

I have to respectfully disagree. I haven't seen anything I would categorize as vulgar. Have you guys watched prime time TV lately? I do not see talk of alcohol as offensive at all and the sexual inuendo- well again, perfectly innocent.

We ask that people not be so thin-skinned here in the dog house because we discuss controversial topics. We allow teenagers to completely trash talk their parents, we allow religious arguements, discussions that sometimes get outright mean. It's all life, folks. Learn to deal. If it gets so sensored that we can't even have a real debate or if we completely lose our sense of humor- well, then it's lost its appeal as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: and here is a Dog House idea: if someone is too immature to read very veiled, mostly innocent sexual joking, then are they really mature enough to be surfing internet message boards? Probably not. It's most likely a situation where parents should be better monitoring their child's internet usage. I can't imagine a child under the age of 12 being allowed to use the internet without supervision. I am sure that supervision isn't happening as it should, but it is not my responsiblity to parent cyberspace.

[micki76]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I have to respectfully disagree. I haven't seen anything I would categorize as vulgar. Have you guys watched prime time TV lately? I do not see talk of alcohol as offensive at all and the sexual inuendo- well again, perfectly innocent.

We ask that people not be so thin-skinned here in the dog house because we discuss controversial topics. We allow teenagers to completely trash talk their parents, we allow religious arguements, discussions that sometimes get outright mean. It's all life, folks. Learn to deal. If it gets so sensored that we can't even have a real debate or if we completely lose our sense of humor- well, then it's lost its appeal as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: and here is a Dog House idea: if someone is too immature to read very veiled, mostly innocent sexual joking, then are they really mature enough to be surfing internet message boards? Probably not. It's most likely a situation where parents should be better monitoring their child's internet usage. I can't imagine a child under the age of 12 being allowed to use the internet without supervision. I am sure that supervision isn't happening as it should, but it is not my responsiblity to parent cyberspace.

My nine year old niece doesn’t watch much prime time TV. She’s busy with homework and (gasp) chores, but she does like to come to my house on the weekend and read pet talk and look at all the animals. She’s not exposed to the vulgar stuff on TV that IMO kids shouldn’t be viewing. (Don’t they all have the amount of homework she has?)

I let her get on PT and that’s the only site she visits other than radio Disney. She thought the doghouse was about dogs, but I told her some of the stuff that’s written here is for more grown up people. She took that fine and stays out, but not all kids do. By promoting Pet Talk as a family friendly site, many parents and guardians wouldn’t think twice about allowing their kids free access to it, just like Nickelodeon and the radio Disney site.

And I don’t think talking about pasties and sliding down a pole are innuendos, especially when kids ask their parents what that means. If Taylor asked I’d have to explain it to her, and while she understands about sex and has had the talk with her mother, I think there’s a lot of info she doesn’t need just yet.

[Cataholic]

I must jump on board with 2Kitties, once again.

While I don't want this to become some soft porn site, or anything, I don't, either, want this to become some PC site, too. The fun of the internet is 'meeting' all walks, types, etc. Threads about controversial subjects should be welcomed for the thought process.

Harmless 'adult' banter is just that- harmless ADULT banter. Topics about sex, drugs, alcohol, politics, religion, whatever are not bad, in and of themselves.

Micki76, I will pick on you(because I would hope you know I am not really PICKING on you, but, using your situation as an example)

Your 9 year old neice shouldn't be reading the dog house....The other sections? Yes. Dog House? No. It isn't age appropriate. She shouldn't be watching certain cable tv stations (if you have cable), seeing certain mainstream publications (if you receive mags in home)...I don't really mean this about YOU, specifically, but, in general....My point is, there are certain things, as a youngin, that shouldn't be seen. That doesn't mean one bans ALL from their home, but, that there are limitations.

As an adult, on this site, I don't think my 'rights' should be subservient to the non adults...but, that certain limits should be imposed. Namely, that all 'lewd' topics are confined to the DH, and that our younger members should NOT read the DH...nor, should anyone that feels offended by the topic.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Anyone posts the slightest inappropriate thing, and its gone in a flash........before anyone even gets the chance to see.

And, Pops, remembering that I love you! Not everyone has the same definition of inappropriate as you do. I don't find the things we joke about, especially in the weekly Thursday threads inappropriate, or offensive. We just have different measuring sticks.

I really think those things that people find offensive shouldn't be read by those people so offended. Stay out of Bar on Thursdays, if you see something you find offensive, then, leave the thread immediately.

[gini]

Although I agree that we do need to be careful, I think watching television would be far more corrupting that what is written in Pet Talk.

First of all, I don't think a younger child under the age of ten, would wade through all of the posts - mainly because most of it would be boring to them.

And, this is certainly a generalization, if you were to read some of the teenagers "journals" that appear on websites, they would make your hair stand on end. These kids get right down to it.......and every foul word that has ever been created is included in every sentence. If you know how to use a computer and have the site address - it is available to anyone to read.

Recently, I have had the 4:00 PM news on and as they review the days events on the Kobe "situation" I was surprised by the very explicit information the newscasters talked about. At the time, I thought about my own 9 years old niece. What if she had heard that and turned to me for an explanation. She isn't allowed to watch television until the weekends and is then supervised. But a lot of kids are not supervised and they DO hear it. And they are hearing far worse than they would ever read on Pet Talk.

We have a strange large home in our area that has caused an uproar. It is stark white and there is a semi-circle of statues of David along the driveway. There must be 25 of them. They also have two cars - both are flaming orange. It sits on a corner of a main street. I drove by with my 9 year old niece and she commented "I just don't get it - a pure white house and two orange cars." She never mentioned the statues.

At Christmas time, every one of the statues wears a Santa hat.

In a nutshell what I am trying to express is that the real world is far more harming to a child than anything that has ever appeared on Pet Talk.

[wolfsoul]

I have to agree that sometimes we can go overboard. I'm not offended at all, nor do I think someone 13 or over would be, but, like has been said, some younger children can still read what we say.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, so forgive me, but sometimes I go on to other internet forums and see that you aren't able to go into a thread unless you are registered. Like a lock. Can't we do that with the dog house? Karen? :)

[Logan]

Aly, I for one, appreciate your willingness to bring up this topic. I guess I take more offense at how many of us, as adults, respond to certain posts than I do at the content of the posts. I get most "turned off" when there is what I view as attacks on individuals for a multitude of reasons, especially when it is something that is completely innocent or out of the poster's control (example: the length of someone's nickname, poor decisions by the parents of one of our members, etc). Good grief, it is probably better to leave it alone if you can't offer a supportive word. At least use the PM feature if you have a gripe, and be able to offer a solution when you do it!

I try to set good examples for my own child, and that is sort of my "rule" on all the groups I belong to, including Pet Talk. I don't want to say anything here that I wouldn't be comfortable saying in front of my 12 year old daughter. She reads here, although she doesn't participate, and we talk about things that go on at Pet Talk that upset me, and the things that make me smile. She knows my value system and as far as I know, she lives it. :) We drink in moderation, don't try to hide that, but letting her and our other children know that moderation is the key is very important! That is just one example, of course, and usually the Thursday posts are fun and relaxing for all of us.

The key thing is that probably all of us came to Pet Talk initially to share about our pets! The friendships came along as a result of our love for our animals, thus our interest in other parts of each other's lives, good and bad. And with friends, we all develop an interest in sharing and learning more about each other, including our political, religious and personal views, our health, our families, our grief, our joy, etc. That's healthy conversation that lets each of us know more about each other.

If everyone could stop and think before they post and try to analyze whether what they are getting ready to say really adds any benefit to the discussion, things like this might never even arise. I'm far from perfect :o (darn it). No one is perfect. But we can all remember the purpose of this site to begin with, which was to share the love of our pets, and post accordingly with respect for all members, young and old.

OK.....I'm stepping off my soapbox now.

Logan

[catland]

In defense of Thursday's.

When we're at Thursdays -
we don't smoke
we don't do drugs
we don't swear
we do drink - but there's no real alcohol involved since its a virtual bar.
we tell jokes - but we try to keep it clean.
we have a great time together
we don't turn anyone away at the door
we don't serve "liquor" to minors
we check our political opinions at the door
we help "clean up" afterwards.

If any of us cross the line, please let us know or PM us because we don't want people to feel uncomfortable.

If the idea of a virtual bar is offensive to you, but you like the idea of the camaraderie of Thursdays - you are most welcome to open up your own "restaurant" or "club" with a no alcohol rule.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by catland
If the idea of a virtual bar is offensive to you, but you like the idea of the camaraderie of Thursdays - you are most welcome to open up your own "restaurant" or "club" with a no alcohol rule.

Fantastic idea! Yes, and if you aren't comfortable with Dog House discussions, stay in the General Forum.

As the offending party in the situation where the login name was too long- well the darn thing was too long. It was bunking up the thread. If your avatar photo is too large, then it should be adjusted--- as should that nickname. It's just common courtesty and I refuse to belive that particular person didn't notice her name was too long. She just chose not to do anything about it.

[lbaker]

I started to read some of that other "teenage" site that Karen manages and I couldn't stand it. Now THAT was filth. We've had discussions here at PT before about "working girls" and go-go dancers that have never raised an eyebrow. Differences of opinion yes, but it was respectful and healthy. WE WERE JOKING and trying to lighten up with humor (ok, sarcastic humor maybe) yet another thread that was getting too serious... as if THAT's never happened before. I'm a hard working, older, widowed woman and pet caretaker to many animals and find the break in a busy, tense day that joking around with a few friends can give me - friends from all over the world even - a most refreshing thing in my life. nuff said, end of story

[Kfamr]

Most of the time sex, drugs and so on aren't really offensive to me -- But sometimes you all get WAY too out of hand, and it gets really gross.

Alcohol offends me no matter what. I guess some of you would just have to be in my shoes to understand, and you're not so I guess you never will. Alcohol isn't something that makes me happy, but Pet Talk is -- That's why I find it offensive when the two cross.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by lbaker
I started to read some of that other "teenage" site that Karen manages and I couldn't stand it. Now THAT was filth.

Oh dear, that's why I never joined that board. :eek:
It was so disgusting how some of them talked,
and even Karen, our Snow Princess :p seemed alot nicer on this board.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Alcohol offends me no matter what. I guess some of you would just have to be in my shoes to understand, and you're not so I guess you never will. Alcohol isn't something that makes me happy, but Pet Talk is -- That's why I find it offensive when the two cross.

Kfamr, I am honestly sorry for whatever effects alcohol has had on your life. But to insinuate that all those who drink or talk about alcohol are alcoholics or offensive- well, that's too much for me. I would respectfully suggest you stay away from threads which you know will offend you.

I also have to point you to your very own posts in the "Where did it Go" thread where you ask more than once to know what you missed. Clearly, if it was deleted, then it was subject matter found to be offensive. If you are easily offended by material, specifically that related to alcohol, then I also respectfully suggest you do not go in search of that offensive material.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Kfamr, I am honestly sorry for whatever effects alcohol has had on your life. But to say insinuate that all those who drink or talk about alcohol are alcoholics or offensive- well, that's too much for me. I would respectfully suggest you stay away from threads which you know will offend you.

I also have to point you to your very own posts in the "Where did it Go" thread where you ask more than once to know what you missed. Clearly, if it was deleted, then it was subject matter found to be offensive. If you are easily offended by material, specifically that related to alcohol, then I also respectfully suggest you do not go in search of that offensive material.

I never said anyone and everyone who drinks is alcoholics or offensive -- But, Alcohol IS. Alcohol is brought up in more than one thread, how am I supposed to know when and where?
And I don't know what will and won't offend me, until I read it.


And about "Where did it go?" - I was confused onto what "it" was. Again, never know if it was offensive to ME or not.

As for staying away from the Dog House(like some have suggested), Not all threads contain alcohol and get "Adult humor" like some of you like to call it. :rolleyes:

[Cataholic]

2Kitties+Cataholic= a perfect (but, non-sexual, union). I just couldn't agree more! Do you have a brother, by chance? ;)

[Soledad]

I think this whole discussion (as necessary as it may be to establish ground rules) is just annoying.

We were having a laugh. I doubt there's too much a kid could have gleaned from that (had they patience or inclination to even READ a thread on the war on Iraq) that they didn't already know or immediately dismiss.

Some people here just like to get offended, end of story. The mere mention of alcohol, cigarettes or nudity/sex sends them into an eye-rolling fury. So be it. But they can CHOOSE to stop reading such threads rather than force their tastes onto everyone else. As long as no one is outright swearing and writing about explicit acts, I don't see the problem.

If you can't stand the heat...

[Cataholic]

Kfamr....this is one of those threads that SEEMS likely to get out of control, and upset you....why don't you just stop reading it now, before you get upset? So often we go at it, and at it, and by then, it is too late to 'undo'. My suggestion is just a warning, before we all reach that point.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Soledad
If you can't stand the heat...

....then, get your butt outta my kitchen!:D

p.s., my 'butt' as referenced above, is fully clad.:p

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
Some people here just like to get offended, end of story.



As it seem some are here just to offend others....

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Kfamr
As it seem some are here just to offend others....



See? It is starting already....you are starting to get upset, and point fingers.....just go to another thread, ignore this one...

[Kfamr]

Nope, not offended at all -- Just stating my opinion ;D
But yes, I do need to stop being lazy and post more Sim & Nala pictures from yesterday.. ;D

[Soledad]

Originally posted by Kfamr
As it seem some are here just to offend others....

As someone who as been the center of many a controversy (like me), you should be careful with your words...

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I never said anyone and everyone who drinks is alcoholics or offensive -- But, Alcohol IS. Alcohol is brought up in more than one thread, how am I supposed to know when and where?
And I don't know what will and won't offend me, until I read it.


And about "Where did it go?" - I was confused onto what "it" was. Again, never know if it was offensive to ME or not.

As for staying away from the Dog House(like some have suggested), Not all threads contain alcohol and get "Adult humor" like some of you like to call it. :rolleyes:

I suppose I am confused to why you feel alcohol is such an awful thing. Many of-age adults enjoy an alcoholic beverage and manage to stay out of too much trouble. Either way, alcohol is not offensive to everyone and I do not feel it is necessary to sensor it out of the Dog House. I'm hard pressed to to see how anyone could avoid the topic of alcohol in this life anyway, unless you walk around with your eyes closed and your ears plugged all the time. I'm offended by alot of things, but I am able to separate myself when necessary, or simply deal with it.

Cataholic, I do have a brother, but he's only 24. Are you still interested?

[lbaker]

Kfamr, please do post more pix of Simba & Nala (in their own thread?). I've told you before that just looking at Simba's face makes me feel good. Not only are your pictures very professional, your "models" make Naomi Campbell look dowdy :)

[2kitties]

Soledad, you rock. I like you- in a completely sober and non-sexual way.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I suppose I am confused to why you feel alcohol is such an awful thing. Many of-age adults enjoy an alcoholic beverage and manage to stay out of too much trouble. Either way, alcohol is not offensive to everyone and I do not feel it is necessary to sensor it out of the Dog House. I'm hard pressed to to see how anyone could avoid the topic of alcohol in this life anyway, unless you walk around with your eyes closed and your ears plugged all the time. I'm offended by alot of things, but I am able to separate myself when necessary, or simply deal with it.


That's exactly why I said you'll never know, unless you're in my shoes, and maybe a few others.

No, I don't think it should be out of the dog house, i don't even pay attention to that thread -- I really don't even know what it's all aobut. But, It does come up and many other threads.

Anyways -- This is PET Talk, right?

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by lbaker
Kfamr, please do post more pix of Simba & Nala (in their own thread?). I've told you before that just looking at Simba's face makes me feel good. Not only are your pictures very professional, your "models" make Naomi Campbell look dowdy :)

Hehe :) I'm on it right now -- I had them posted last night, but my computer messed up and my post erased. :(

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Anyways -- This is PET Talk, right?

Yes, this is Pet Talk, and there are 21 forums inside Pet Talk wherein you can talk about Pets to your hearts content. There are 3 forums for talk outside the world of pets. See, something for everyone. So I see no reason for anyone to get offended by anything when there are plenty of places to go to talk about whatever you like.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Cataholic
And, Pops, remembering that I love you! Not everyone has the same definition of inappropriate as you do. I don't find the things we joke about, especially in the weekly Thursday threads inappropriate, or offensive. We just have different measuring sticks.

I really think those things that people find offensive shouldn't be read by those people so offended. Stay out of Bar on Thursdays, if you see something you find offensive, then, leave the thread immediately.

Catapault, I love you too! :) You know, I don't think *most* things in the dog house are offensive at all. Just some, occasionally, some posts, make me gag. Its not too often, and its definitely not your posts.......not most peoples', but occasionally, I think people do post things that shouldn't be on this site, IMHO. :p

I don't think there's any problem with discussing religion, politics, things that bother us, etc. Such things shouldn't be offensive to kids...........it increases their knowledge. :p I know people really don't say sexually vulgar things here, not really...........not something that's really exposing and wrong just at sight of the post...........at least I haven't noticed, but alcohol is talked of a lot, and I usually avoid those threads. Its not like I can't come to PT without seeing those threads...........I avoid them, because I don't like alcohol, but I do think some go overboard at times. :)

But I understood Aly's point more as pointing out the language that's occasionally used. :confused: I don't know how right I am on that, but that's what I understood.

I have seen things..............pics, that *I* find offensive on other boards *Dog General/General*, again very rarely, only once or twice. I don't even remember who posted this and when, but I remember someone cropping a pic of their pet with a lady in a very exposing bikini............I know it was a joke, but I didn't like that. It was so gross.......it hurt my eyes. :p He he he he. I don't like seeing pics of people in exposing clothes, and I know most people of PT are very decent, because we've had discussions, about people in nasty clothes, and almost everyone agreed that its gross. Those are the things I'm *more* offended by, especially when you're not expecting it from the title. :p :D

[gini]

I believe alcohol (virtual alcohol) has been discussed only in the Dog House.

If I am wrong, please I welcome the correction.

If the word alcohol sends you into a tizzy - then please, please, excuse yourself and go to the other threads.

[lbaker]

Edwina's Sec'y, her hubby and several other Euro PetTalker's all met in GERMANY, during OCTOBERFEST and took pictures and talked and laughed and told happy stories about their wonderful fun meeting. They happened to mention beer that they drank while eating and visiting a beer garden. Some people found it - I believe the word was - GROSS. You can't please everybody all the time.............

[Soledad]

The horror....:rolleyes:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

EVERYTHING in the world will offend SOMEONE, SOME TIME, SOME WHERE! We could all sit in the corner and never move and SOMEONE SOME WHERE would be offened by that.

[lbaker]

If I remember correctly, while in Germany there was also comment about Sara (The E's Sec'y) rolling around in saurkraut but that might of been said in some tawdry sarcastic comment. A weak attempt of humor no doubt.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
EVERYTHING in the world will offend SOMEONE, SOME TIME, SOME WHERE! We could all sit in the corner and never move and SOMEONE SOME WHERE would be offened by that.

Agreed 100% MOFF. :D

Anyone ever hear of the saying "Live and let live?" Seems appropriate here.

I have no idea how all this started since I mostly avoid the doghouse topics. Not because I would be offended, but because I have enough controversy in my life without adding more. And actually, I try and keep controversy to a minimum in my life because it's just not worth the aggravation. :)

Well, I'm off to the Thursday thread and some nice relaxing, fun banter and oops - heaven forbid - possibly a cyber drink or two! :eek: :rolleyes: :D

[Randi]

Originally posted by lbaker
Edwina's Sec'y, her hubby and several other Euro PetTalker's all met in GERMANY, during OCTOBERFEST and took pictures and talked and laughed and told happy stories about their wonderful fun meeting. They happened to mention beer that they drank while eating and visiting a beer garden. Some people found it - I believe the word was - GROSS. You can't please everybody all the time.............
Uhhh, I even think wine was mentioned in one post. :eek:

No, seriously, I can understand perfectly well that some people hate alcohol. Dealing with alcoholics is NO fun!! I've known a few.
BUT, the thursday thread is pretty harmless in my opinion. AND most of the members must know by now what it's about (virtual drinks, fun and joking), so why not stay away from that forum if you dislike it so!

Some people seem to go out of their way to look for something offensive they can complain about!

Loosen up and join the fun! :D

Just my 2 Kr. (danish)

[gini]

Originally posted by lbaker
Edwina's Sec'y, her hubby and several other Euro PetTalker's all met in GERMANY, during OCTOBERFEST and took pictures and talked and laughed and told happy stories about their wonderful fun meeting. They happened to mention beer that they drank while eating and visiting a beer garden. Some people found it - I believe the word was - GROSS. You can't please everybody all the time.............

Yes, Laurie, you are absolutely correct. That Sara - wouldn't you know! And Barbara and Randi.......what is the world coming to.

Let's pull that post back up and go rant and rave. As I recall, there were EVEN PICTURES!!

I sit corrected:D

[Soledad]

I saw it was all the Europeans' faults. They're so permissive!! The second our pure Sara leaves our shores she falls into their spell.

[micki76]

Well. Not surprisingly so, you’ve all taken Aly’s post an turned it to a completely different topic. I think the original point (let me speak for you here friend :p ) had nothing to do with alcohol (of which I personally freely partake :D ), but more of the language that’s appropriate for a family oriented site. I personally am not asking you all to close Thursdays, or stop having heated debates, or lively discussions. I usually like to participate in those too. But I think we need to curb a bit of the innuendo, to use a word that was used earlier. Think about the things you would say out loud if young people were sitting in the same room with you. Think about the other people that are cyberly sitting in the room while you’re “talking”.

I don’t think vulgarity requires swear words or talking about explicit acts, Soledad. It can be as little as an insinuation.

Johanna, use me and abuse me! :D Actually, me niece isn’t exposed to any of those things. Her mother does her job as a parent and I try to be a good aunt as well. I know she shouldn’t be reading the doghouse and she doesn’t, but without that supervision she probably would. All I’m saying is that to a lesser parent, Pet Talk is deemed a “family friendly” site, much along the lines of Nick and Disney. Some parents don’t have the time, or won’t make the time to sit next to their kids while they surf, but I too wish they did.

I know it’s no one’s job to parent the kids but the parent, but as a family (and that’s what we are, aren’t we?) shouldn’t we care enough about our young people to restrain ourselves a bit. Just as you would (hopefully) do in front of young family members or a friends children?

Oh and BTW – believe me Aly’s truly not a prude and I’m far from it, so don’t think we’re offended by anything said here, we’re just thinking of the kiddos! :D :p

[Pam]

Once again Logan has spoken the thoughts that have been rolling around in my mind, although much more eloquently than I could ever put down. Prime Time TV is much more bothersome to me than a thread in Pet Talk. A lot of the shows that are geared to young kids are sending messages which are much more harmful in my opinion. TV is hardly worth turning on any more. I would hope that parents are paying attention to what their kids are reading/looking at on the computer as well as watching on TV. They have the ultimate responsibility.

The thing that irks me these days about Pet Talk is the "argumentative few" who seem to want to fight and be as mean and nasty as they can whenever they can. This type of hostility has driven away many members and that saddens me. After being at work all day, people would like to come home and read something fun (yes even the Thursday threads!) but they often have to sift through endless arguments that should be handled by PM. OK, I'm off the soapbox too.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by Soledad
I saw it was all the Europeans' faults. They're so permissive!! The second our pure Sara leaves our shores she falls into their spell.

LOL! Beware of Europeans!

Cataholic, Soledad, Gini......
you're very welcome;)

[catland]

Originally posted by Pam
The thing that irks me these days about Pet Talk is the "argumentative few" who seem to want to fight and be as mean and nasty as they can whenever they can. This type of hostility has driven away many members and that saddens me.

You are quite eloquent Pam. Well said.

So the question remains, what do we do about this? How can we come together to police this site and make it once again the jewel of the internet?

I know that one solution is to PM people that you think may have crossed the line.

You can also PM Karen when you believe that a person or thread is out of control.

What solutions do others have?

Here's just one idea - How about if each of us promises ourselves that for every reply we make in the Dog House, we'll go and read a pet-related thread in the Dog/Cat/Pet forums or go look at a Dog/Cat/Pet of the Day?

[Soledad]

Ya know, I really don't want to be receiving PMs because someone's offended by a mention of alcohol or because of a heated political discussion. I've had the unfortunate experience of getting some rather rude PMs as is. I'd like to not continue the experience.

[clara4457]

Originally posted by micki76
Well. Not surprisingly so, you’ve all taken Aly’s post an turned it to a completely different topic. I think the original point (let me speak for you here friend :p ) had nothing to do with alcohol (of which I personally freely partake :D ), but more of the language that’s appropriate for a family oriented site. I personally am not asking you all to close Thursdays, or stop having heated debates, or lively discussions. I usually like to participate in those too. But I think we need to curb a bit of the innuendo, to use a word that was used earlier. Think about the things you would say out loud if young people were sitting in the same room with you. Think about the other people that are cyberly sitting in the room while you’re “talking”.

Ummm... was wondering when this thread would get back on track. ;) Have to agree with Aly and micki76 on this one. I don't think it is the joking, humor, cyberbar or political debates that she was referring to. Rather the sexual innuendos that give you a visual image of what you would watch on HBO after 10pm. So although I personally do not find it objectionable, I would never discuss it in a room of 10 year olds.

I do not think that you can stop the topics that are unobjectionable (is that a word - the grammer police may get me) to all people. Religion, politics, abortion, dating, medical decisions, etc. have all been discussed here and many times they are interesting lively debates that are very interesting and informative. I for one would miss hearing different opinions about different topics.

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by micki76
It can be as little as an insinuation.

Johanna, use me and abuse me! :D

I'm calling you on this one, Micki. You know I think of you as a great friend but 'practice what you preach' comes to mind.


Kayann, I think it's ironic for one who listens to music with many vulgarities -including lyrics from your fav. artist- to rant how much alcohol/drugs/sex/etc. offends you (granted, you said the latter two "sometimes" offends you while the first ALWAYS offends you). I also looked back to your first post in which you simply stated your opinion; you did not out-and-out seek controversy thus, I hope you don't feel as though I am picking on you. I know you have had not-so-good situations with alcohol as a facilitator however, it is as someone said: what offends you may not offend others. What if I said pictures of Simba offend me? (They don't, just using an example.) Would you cease to post those pictures or would you continue to post so that the mass of pet talk -members or not- can enjoy them? I could be wrong but I think you'd continue to post them, with the attitude of "If you don't like it, don't look."

That attitude is what is being conveyed here. If you don't like it, don't look. I can see where the sexual references were deemed inappropriate. In the same stride, they are/were toned down and innocent compared to COMMERCIALS that appear during kids' television programming. (herbal essence, anyone?)

I do like wolfsoul's idea of only being able to view doghouse as a member. But even that would not resolve all problems.

I do agree "the" teenage site is yucky-gross but understand (or as *I* understand) Karen does NOT own that board. This one is owned and therefore things CAN BE done. I don't always agree with her moderating policies but hey, it's another matter of "you say tomatoe, I say..."

This is of particular interest to me, as in class we are discussing ethics of the internet. Should you assume that, by logging on, you will be subjected to distasteful scenarios? Is it a matter of 'becareful what you click?' What rights do users have? What guidelines are established and who establishes them? While this is fascinating--and timely-- it is also disheartening. I've spent the last couple of weeks on pet talk 'vacation' due to strife both on and off the board. I began browsing the forum two days ago only to find it was SSDD. (If you don't know what that means, don't ask as it might offend you.)



Sorry to intrude, I'll return to my self-imposed term-paper exile now.

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Soledad
Ya know, I really don't want to be receiving PMs because someone's offended by a mention of alcohol or because of a heated political discussion.

Me either. If I call someone an ugly name or say something in reference to something illegal- feel free to flog me.
I'm am sorry but I am simply not interested in being policed- I do not feel I've ever said anything that would warrant that. Any controversial remarks I make are restricted to the Dog House, where I feel they are appropriate. While I pledge not to be explicit or out of hand, I do not feel it necessary to censor myself to children in this forum. If that becomes the case, I will respectfully leave when asked, because that isn't why I come here in the first place. The appeal would be gone.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by zippy-kat


Kayann, I think it's ironic for one who listens to music with many vulgarities -including lyrics from your fav. artist- to rant how much alcohol/drugs/sex/etc. offends you (granted, you said the latter two "sometimes" offends you while the first ALWAYS offends you). I also looked back to your first post in which you simply stated your opinion; you did not out-and-out seek controversy thus, I hope you don't feel as though I am picking on you. I know you have had not-so-good situations with alcohol as a facilitator however, it is as someone said: what offends you may not offend others. What if I said pictures of Simba offend me? (They don't, just using an example.) Would you cease to post those pictures or would you continue to post so that the mass of pet talk -members or not- can enjoy them? I could be wrong but I think you'd continue to post them, with the attitude of "If you don't like it, don't look."


Tonya you have NO idea on how much I DON'T listen to that sort of music anymore. A year or so ago, I would have LOVED to go to the rap concert I went to a few weeks ago. I didn't want to go. I didn't one bit actually. My sister wanted me to go, my sister wanted to bring me to my first concert. I'm not even into that sort of music which talks about sex, drugs, alcohol and so on. Yes, some of Nelly's songs may have it in there, but, again I rarely listen to songs like that.

If pictures of Simba offended you, I ALWAYS state in my subject like that there are going to be pictures, thus, you have the choice of not going in or going in. I don't see any thread stating"Adult Content" -- Which there should be, I think -- But it's sad PET Talk has to have such things, as they shouldnt be here in the first place.

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by Kfamr
If pictures of Simba offended you.....


Originally posted by zippy-kat
What if I said pictures of Simba offend me?
(They don't, just using an example.)

Somehow I have a hard time picturing you listening to country or worse...B-r-i-t-t-a-n-y! :p

Ok, back to the term papers I go...

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Somehow I have a hard time picturing you listening to country or worse...B-r-i-t-t-a-n-y! :p

Ok, back to the term papers I go...

Yes, I know you didn't mean pictures of Simba offended you,
That's why I said "IF".....

As for what music I listen to, more so Alternative..
Country and Britney? NEVER.

I used to be so obsessed with music, Now it's more obsessed with my dogs. :)

[catland]

Welcome back Zippy - we've missed you! :D

(ok, that's off topic - I'm just happy:) )

[aly]

*sighs* I've not read past page 2 of this thread yet (due to lack of time), but it seems like some of you think I was aiming this thread directly at you. It was no one specific thing that made me post this. Its been a culmination of things over months and months.

As I said, it is not ME who is offended. I just want to look out for our younger members. Nowhere does it warn them that the Dog House can get crude. Sure, controversial topics are welcome, but I think we need to draw a line somewhere being that this is a family site.

A couple years ago, some of us from PT started up a yahoo group so we could have a forum to discuss whatever we wanted. Perhaps this would be a good option for the Thursdays crew. AND NO I WAS NOT AIMING THIS THREAD AT YOU GUYS, but only using you as an example.

Soledad, in no way did I mean to annoy you by my thoughts. But as you said, if you don't like it, don't read it. You've started many threads (or posts in threads actually) that I didn't agree with so I just ignored them. I'm sorry you had to state your dislike of my thread.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I go out of town for a few days and return to find my name has been slung around in the saurekraut!

Is it true that until my recent trip to Europe the fermented juice of the grape had never crossed my innocent lips???? Nor the brew of yeast and hops????

Not exactly.....

There are threads on here that bore me, there are threads on here that offend me so.....I go to the threads on here that are the highlight of my day and suggest everyone do the same!

(amen and pass the potato salad please.....)

[2kitties]

ES, I wondered when you were gonna get over here and clear your name! I can't even imagine what you looked like in the saurekraut!;) Stay away from the Europeans. Big trouble!

[aly]

Originally posted by micki76
Well. Not surprisingly so, you’ve all taken Aly’s post an turned it to a completely different topic. I think the original point (let me speak for you here friend :p ) had nothing to do with alcohol (of which I personally freely partake :D ), but more of the language that’s appropriate for a family oriented site. I personally am not asking you all to close Thursdays, or stop having heated debates, or lively discussions. I usually like to participate in those too. But I think we need to curb a bit of the innuendo, to use a word that was used earlier. Think about the things you would say out loud if young people were sitting in the same room with you. Think about the other people that are cyberly sitting in the room while you’re “talking”.

I don’t think vulgarity requires swear words or talking about explicit acts, Soledad. It can be as little as an insinuation.

Johanna, use me and abuse me! :D Actually, me niece isn’t exposed to any of those things. Her mother does her job as a parent and I try to be a good aunt as well. I know she shouldn’t be reading the doghouse and she doesn’t, but without that supervision she probably would. All I’m saying is that to a lesser parent, Pet Talk is deemed a “family friendly” site, much along the lines of Nick and Disney. Some parents don’t have the time, or won’t make the time to sit next to their kids while they surf, but I too wish they did.

I know it’s no one’s job to parent the kids but the parent, but as a family (and that’s what we are, aren’t we?) shouldn’t we care enough about our young people to restrain ourselves a bit. Just as you would (hopefully) do in front of young family members or a friends children?

Oh and BTW – believe me Aly’s truly not a prude and I’m far from it, so don’t think we’re offended by anything said here, we’re just thinking of the kiddos! :D :p

Thank you micki!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what I meant!

And thanks for blowin my cover that I'm not a prude - hehe ;)

[Soledad]

ALY - YOU did not offend or annoy me. Rather, it was the the way this thread had turned out that annoyed me.

You are more than welcome in my book to express your concern, but I am returning my opinion on the matter.

I was most annoyed by the suggestion that we were being lewd and vulgar, as I think all things said were said in jest with a dash of the saucy. As others have said, nothing you can't see in even more detail on your tv these days.

But I am confused and completely bewildered as to why people who congregate at a VIRTUAL bar need to be shunted off elsewhere. Why??? What's offensive about a FAKE bar. That's life, people. Children have to accept the fact that adults drink beverages that they are not yet able to consume.

I suppose these same children cannot be allowed to watch Cheers. :rolleyes: :confused:

[aly]

Ok Soledad - I thought you were referring to me directly in all your comments. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion.

I wasn't trying to "usher" the Thursdays people off the board. I really just used that as an example because I couldn't think of another "group" to reference to.

Again, if I am offended or annoyed by threads, I ignore them completely - well, usually :p So I didn't start this thread on my behalf, but on the childrens' behalf.

I respect the opinion of everyone who has posted on this thread and I can see it from your eyes too. I'm just really motherly by nature (look at all my bottle babies I am constantly fostering) and love kids. It is sad for me to turn on the television and see all the lewd content. If/when I have kids, I don't know what I will do. I always thought of PT as a safe haven away from all that junk.

[Cincy'sMom]

I read the beginning of this thread before work this morning ( I think it was at the start of page 2 then), and then first thing that came to my mind was cartoons. Has any one, as an adult, or older teenager, gone back and watched the old Bugs Bunny/Looney Tunes? They are totally different from an adult prospective, and like it or not, much of the humor is "adult" As kids, we didn't realize it was there, but it was.

I have posted a few possibly inappropraite or suggestive things and laughed at many others. And I guess maybe the sad part is that a lot of the "kids" understand it! I had no idea at 15 what pole dancing was, and while somedays it feels like, 15 was not that many years ago for me. I have read someof the online journals and I am shocked by the language and discussions of the teens. They now A LOT more now then I ever did at that age and could tell all us adult things to make us blush. 9Not to say all teens are that way, I also know some who are still very innocent)

Yes, I think we should watch what we say and keep it mostly clean. But I don't think everything should be kept G rated either.

[anna_66]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I have seen things..............pics, that *I* find offensive on other boards *Dog General/General*, again very rarely, only once or twice. I don't even remember who posted this and when, but I remember someone cropping a pic of their pet with a lady in a very exposing bikini............I know it was a joke, but I didn't like that. It was so gross.......it hurt my eyes. :p He he he he. I don't like seeing pics of people in exposing clothes, and I know most people of PT are very decent, because we've had discussions, about people in nasty clothes, and almost everyone agreed that its gross. Those are the things I'm *more* offended by, especially when you're not expecting it from the title. :p :D
I don't have anything to add to this thread, just wanted to say
I'm very sorry that "I" (I did the pic with Angus) posted something that you found so very offensive pop.
Next time I'll post in the subject that there is a scantly clad woman in the pic;)

[primabella]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
I read the beginning of this thread before work this morning ( I think it was at the start of page 2 then), and then first thing that came to my mind was cartoons. Has any one, as an adult, or older teenager, gone back and watched the old Bugs Bunny/Looney Tunes? They are totally different from an adult prospective, and like it or not, much of the humor is "adult" As kids, we didn't realize it was there, but it was.

I agree with you on the Looney Toons thing! I realized that some of those jokes (even on other family TV shows) had quite a bit of adult content. :p

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by aly

A couple years ago, some of us from PT started up a yahoo group so we could have a forum to discuss whatever we wanted. Perhaps this would be a good option for the Thursdays crew. AND NO I WAS NOT AIMING THIS THREAD AT YOU GUYS, but only using you as an example.
:confused: Then why point out this option? I don't feel we are harming any one. That's why the bar is in the DOG HOUSE.
Maybe we should make this an absolutley pets only site: no more talk about jobs, school, families (other than our pets), no current events, no more helping each other out, no more caring for each other. I would HATE THAT! AND probably leave.

[catland]

Originally posted by aly
A couple years ago, some of us from PT started up a yahoo group so we could have a forum to discuss whatever we wanted. Perhaps this would be a good option for the Thursdays crew.

cool - I've never been part of a crew before. I feel like I've been sent to detention:D

(btw - I was the good grades, never got in trouble kind of kid, so this is fun);)


I don't like Pet Talk because of Thursdays, I like Thursdays because of Pet Talk. (does that make any sense?)

[aly]

You guys are twisting my words and making it seem like I'm attacking you. I'm almost in tears now because of this. I didn't mean it to be a whole issue like this.

If you feel attacked still at this point, I'm sorry. I can't explain myself any further or I will be regurgitating words. I can only ask you re-read my posts and hopefully my intentions will become apparent.

I'm done with this thread.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
I had no idea at 15 what pole dancing was, and while somedays it feels like, 15 was not that many years ago for me.

Hmmmm.........what's pole dancing? :p:p

No seriously, I don't know........have no idea, absolutely clueless. :o And..........I'm quite older than 15........hmmm.........

LOL

Anyway, Anna, so that's who it was! ;) Tee hee hee. That's ok, I know you were joking...........I just um.........well, get grossed out by such women, and I don't like the thought that innocent Angus is going out was such people. Oh my! :eek:

LOL LOL

Ps. Aly, I've been trying to PM you but I can't. :( Could you please allow the PM's for a while. I want to tell you something.

Also, don't be in tears........you had the best of intentions, and I agree with you.

{{{hugs}}}

:(

[carole]

Well I think it has all been said, some I agree with and some I don't, however now I know about the Thursday's bar , I am off to join in, oh damn thats right its only wed over there, hey and I don't even drink lol.

Come on guys lets not get too heated over this, I think aly was merely pointing out some things, which have validity,so Aly dry those tears, I am certain no-one has gotten too upset here, hope not anyhow.

Obviously Kay-ann has issues with Alcohol for good reason, it has more than likely caused her pain in her life, so lets be a tad sensitive here to her, she is young and until we have walked in her shoes, we never know how we will react.

Enough said from me.:)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Aly, please don't cry! I'm sorry! I just mis-understood you! :(

[micki76]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
I'm calling you on this one, Micki. You know I think of you as a great friend but 'practice what you preach' comes to mind.

That attitude is what is being conveyed here. If you don't like it, don't look. I can see where the sexual references were deemed inappropriate. In the same stride, they are/were toned down and innocent compared to COMMERCIALS that appear during kids' television programming. (herbal essence, anyone?)


I'm sorry Tonya, but the only insinuation there is that people can be used and abused, not the same as insinuating that someone's dancing on a pole naked with pasties on. Little different, as Johanna was using my example to state what I had already stated, and I felt perhaps she thought we let my niece get away with watching that stuff and was therefore calling me a hypocrite. Used and abused - in other words using me as an example that kids shouldn't have access to some things and abusing me by saying letting my niece watch that was bad. I guess my meaning would have been more obvious if I had just gotten angry and yelled at her, but I was choosing to keep the situation a little less volatile. :)

And those Herbal Essence commercials make me sick. How gross! I've not seen them during children's programming, though! That's awful! :(

[ILoveMyAbbyGirl]

Personally, I think I am mature enough to read this forum and if it's something that bad I won't read it. The Dog House is for controversy, and that's what's here. I have no problem with it.

[Karen]

I do not think anything lewd belongs on Pet Talk. Even in a joking manner. And just because some teens here aren't offended does not mean it is okay! This is not to be meant as an attack on or against anyone, just a reminder that you should think before you post.

We want Pet Talk to be a happy, friendly place! A safe place for everyone, age 5-150, to read. And just because your post may be "aimed at" someone you know will appreciate such humor, doesn't mean it's okay. In a case like that, PM the person!

The Dog House, as it states in the opening post of the forum, was "created "The Dog House" so that our members may share their thoughts in a friendly, caring considerate manner." on topics that are "in some way controversial, upsetting, or just makes us go eeeew!"

"caring considerate manner"

"friendly, happy place"

And KayAnn, even at the virtual bar, Thursdays, I only "drink" non-alcoholic drinks anyway!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Hmmmm.........what's pole dancing? :p:p







Dancing people do in Poland....

What else could it be?

[Soledad]

*Snort*

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Soledad
*Snort*



and you mean to tell me that people are always happy in IRE-land?

[RICHARD]

I just filtered thru the thread and saw that some people have questions about the Thursday's thread...

As the 'bartender' there I want to apologize to the people who may take offense to the content.

It was born from a touchy situation and since it's inception everyone has been good enough to participate with almost no supervision.

We have had no fights, flames or ?????

It is an 'understood' rule that we police ourselves and even though there are times that the content MAY border on the edge, I think we pull it back, in time without being offensive.

It may seem like an advertisement for drinking, smoking and behavior only adults participate in,
I think that it is more parody than anything else..

The idea of a 'cyber bar' lets us tell dumb jokes, laugh, eat and act silly-without being drunk.

The thing that amazes me is the people who regularly stop in and contribute their personalities to the thread...

In last week's thread someone posted a note saying that they do not post, but they do read and do enjoy the banter.....to me, If someone can laugh about a joke or some banter, I feel good about myself and the people who really enjoy the silliness.

I personally DO NOT LIKE the threads where people post sick animal tales.....not because they are offensive to me-for the simple reason that it breaks my heart to read about them.

There are threads that TICK ME OFF but I would rather keep my Ire (land) to myself....

Sometimes it's better swallow you ideas than to open the flood gates up and really get angry...

Just because we have a site to 'flex our speech muscles' doesn't mean we HAVE to bench press every topic.

The best part about the Thursday thread is while I have had 'interactions' with people before, they are good enough to stop by and participate in the thread. It's not for everyone post in and would not expect everyone to do so....

I'm sorry if I have made it SOUND like it's MY thread.....it's not..it belongs to everyone and
I do take pride in the fact that Karen and Paul haven't had to shut it down or repirmand anyone about the posts within...

That is a source of pride to me and I think it can survive in that mode......

Again, Apologies to all who are offended....

and thanks to Karen and Paul for letting us do this week after week!

[Soledad]

The thing is, the Dog House is often a pressure cooker because of the controversial topics. It stands to reason that being the nice people we PTers are, we'd like a place in the Dog House where we can all chill, regardless of former issues or differences. I think that removing the "bar" would make the Dog House a much more divisive and unfriendly place. :(

[lizbud]

Richard,

I think your previous post was one of your best ever.

Congrats. :D I love reading "Thursday's" postings even if
I have nothing to say myself. It's just plain fun. I love the
adult conversation & humor.:)

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by micki76
I'm sorry Tonya, but the only insinuation there is that people can be used and abused, not the same as insinuating that someone's dancing on a pole naked with pasties on.

I've only heard the used/abused terminology in reference to relationships (more often than not, involving the the man walking out after "getting what he wanted.") My apologies then, as I misunderstood your context.

and can someone --without offending anyone else-- tell me what pasties are?! :o

[gini]

It is British - I think they are called Cornish Pasties and they are very good. It is a pastry sandwich with meat inside.

liar, liar, pants on fire!

[gini]

EASY CORNISH PASTIES




1 lb. ground beef
1 c. frozen potatoes O'Brien or frozen hash browns, defrosted
1/2 c. thinly sliced or coarsely chopped carrot
1/3 c. finely chopped celery
1/2 c. chopped onion or frozen chopped onion
1/2 tsp. garlic salt (or 1/4 tsp. powder)
Black pepper
1/4 tsp. fine herbs or bouquet garni
1 (10 3/4 oz.) can cream of mushroom soup or 1 (10 1/4 oz.) can beef gravy
1 (15 oz.) pkg. all-ready pie crusts
Preheat oven to 375 degrees. In medium skillet, brown beef; drain well. Add potatoes, carrots, celery, onions, garlic salt, pepper, herbs, and soup. Mix well with spoon and heat through.

Unfold crusts and cut into quarters at fold marks. Place 2 tablespoons or so of meat mixture on one side; fold other side over to cover meat mixture. Quickly seal edges by pressing together with fork tines. Prick tops with fork to allow steam to escape.

Place on ungreased cookie sheets. Bake in preheated oven for 25-30 minutes or until golden. Remove with spatula and serve immediately.

Nothing new about Cornish pasties, but they are exceptionally good and enjoying a resurgence in popularity.

Cornish pasties are those wonderful meat and potato filled turnovers named after the town of Cornwall, England where children and miners carry them for lunch. Frugal housewives would chop leftover meats from roasts; combine them with vegetables and spoon the mixture into a pastry and then bake them.

Our easy version today calls for ground beef, but any leftover trimmed meat could be used. Freeze a batch (already bake and reheat in microwave). Great for after school snacks.

[lizbud]

Gini,

The recipe sounds delicious. Could you whip up a batch for
tomorrow? I'll be at a seminar all day so please save a
serving for me. Do they have "to go" containers at Richard's.
I hope so. ( Think it was the mushroom soup that intrigued me)

Thanks.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Karen
Sent you an email, kiddo!

Thanks Karen, I was wondering how to explain without being too crude or offending anyone. :)

Richard, you hit it right on the head when you said people need a place to chill, and the Thursdays thread is just the place to do it. Even if I don't participate a lot in it, I love reading it because it's just silly, and it's amazing how things can get off on different tangents.

And I like what E's Secretary said about going to the threads that highlight her day. Maybe that's what we should all do - to to the threads that highlight our days and ignore the ones that bring us down.

[carole]

See ya all on thursdays from now on then, Richard can you get my orange juice on the rocks ready thanks., its getting hot here in NZ, and by then I will be mighty thirsty, considering its Friday here, gasp gasp .

[Logan]

Originally posted by lizbud
Richard,

I think your previous post was one of your best ever.

Congrats. :D

I totally agree with you on this one, Liz! :)

[Aspen and Misty]

The orignal post, I beleave, was not about thursday's but about some other threads that have gone WAY off hand. Me, personally, I am not offended. However, I am shocked to find out some things that are said on this used to be "family oriented" site. I, personally, enjoy the Thrusday threads, but have a hard time keeping up with all the fuss.

This thread make me so sad :(

Ash

[shais_mom]

Just got caught up.
I felt like I was watching a soap opera!
I as a rule stay away from the Dog house but do check it out occasionally. I would just hate the thought of 2 people actaully hating each other over their views of different things found here in PT land. There is too much of that in the world anyway.
:confused:

[captain]

Aly

Wanted to PM you.
Only to say {{{{{{{{ hugs }}}}}}}}

[Barbara]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Stay away from the Europeans. Big trouble!

Yeah, but the Americans came over and bathed my cats in catnip:D

:p

[ChrisH]

Liz, you read my mind! :D

Originally posted by lizbud
Richard, I think your previous post was one of your best ever. Congrats. :D
I agree! :)

I love reading "Thursday's" postings even if I have nothing to say myself. It's just plain fun. I love the adult conversation & humor.:)
Me too! :D :D

Chris

[Cataholic]

Aly-
I never took this thread to be directed at any ONE person, and I respect your opinion on it. I just have a different opinion. Shoot, I have different opinions on lots of things, with lots of people. I am not mad/offended/upset by your posts..I just don't agree. I don't like you less, respect you less, etc. I enjoy differences of opinion, and probably am a little bit more comfortable with conflict than lots of people on this board. I hate to think that you are upset about this. When I read it, I don't think I see the 'nasty' stuff you might be seeing.

Micki- I was using your neice as an example only, just because you had just mentioned the situation. I wasn't, in any way, being critical of your parenting/aunting skills. It was just as an example. As to using and abusing me...well, I don't find that offensive. I didn't take it in a sexual way...but, it does, once again, serve as an example. You said it to me. You didn't mean it offensively, I didn't take it offensively, but others did....you just can't please people sometimes. I could find insult in nearly every post, if I searched.

I stick by my original comments. This is the DH, and I don't want to have to censore myself because of some (or any) child. I would find PT alot less enjoyable, and would contemplate leaving, because it wouldn't be serving my needs any longer. I think my opinion should 'count' just as much as some child's.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
more often than not, involving the the man walking out after "getting what he wanted." [/SIZE]


home cooking???


cornish pasties?


On the flip side.....

It's easy to hold a grudge with someone over their views. The hard part is putting it aside so you can get on to the more important grudges.

;)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by RICHARD

The idea of a 'cyber bar' lets us tell dumb jokes, laugh, eat and act silly-without being drunk.
Or gain weight!!!
I never drink liquor either, in real life or in the cyber bar. I have fun without it. I will admit to eating nachos too often though.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by zippy-kat

...and can someone -
- without offending anyone else -
- tell me what pasties are?! :o

Zipp ~

An E-mail
(with informative :o *click-link* included)
is on it's way... :D

Cut her a break, Folks ~
She's lived a sheltered life. :cool:

/s/ Phred

[gini]

And now Zipp gets to know more than she ever wanted to know:D :D :D

[2kitties]

As far as I'm concerned, Pasties are nothing dirty, nor offensive or anything like that. Alot of women find them quite convenient. I don't know why we wouldn't be able to describe them tastefully.

Pasties are stick-on bras (much like large bandaids) so women can still wear a supportive undergarmet without having straps that would show with some tops.

I wore my first pair of pasties with my prom dress my freshman year in high school- age 14. Nothing dirty, just a bra.

[micki76]

Originally posted by 2kitties
As far as I'm concerned, Pasties are nothing dirty, nor offensive or anything like that. Alot of women find them quite convenient. I don't know why we wouldn't be able to describe them tastefully.

Pasties are stick-on bras (much like large bandaids) so women can still wear a supportive undergarmet without having straps that would show with some tops.

I wore my first pair of pasties with my prom dress my freshman year in high school- age 14. Nothing dirty, just a bra.

Uh, that's not the same thing as the pasties strippers wear. :o

[2kitties]

Well, I guess I'm not completely up on my stipper slang! :cool: I was just under the impression that a stripper's version was smaller and usually adorned. ;)

[micki76]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Well, I guess I'm not completely up on my stipper slang! :cool: I was just under the impression that a stripper's version was smaller and usually adorned. ;)

LOL! WAY smaller!:p

[Soledad]

Actually, as someone who has had stripper friends, they are not that small. :rolleyes:

[micki76]

Originally posted by Soledad
Actually, as someone who has had stripper friends, they are not that small. :rolleyes:

The ones that my friend was required to wear are very small (only cover a certain area) and can be clear or colored and adorned. It used to be a law here, I don't know if it still is, that they be worn. I always thought clear kinda defeated the purpose. :confused:

Great, now I'm talking about stuff that shouldn't be said here! :o

[Soledad]

You know those things on your upper body. You know how they are round. They cover those things. And since those things differ in size, the little cover upper things have to cover a broad range. I'd say the smallest they come in is bigger than a silver dollar.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[2kitties]

"nipples" people. They're called "nipples." Since when did that become a dirty word??? Sorry, but I refuse to accept that a non-slang term for a female body part, when used in anatomical, not sexual, reference, is dirty. Please tell me we don't have to teach children that the term "nipple" is dirty.

[Soledad]

Good question. I don't find the word offensive, but considering the new PT standards, who knows....:rolleyes:

[Aspen and Misty]

I'm sorry Aly :(

I'll send you a PM

Ashley

[carole]

Well I am glad someone else had the courage to ask what pasties are? I have never ever heard of them, mind you we probably call them something else here lol!:)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Gosh, do NONE of you read The Cat Who book series by Lilian Jackson Braun? There is a bistro in Moose County that serves Nasty Pasties which are "like turnovers filled with meat, potatoes, and turnips." No one in Moose County has been known to wear one, but to each his own.:eek: :D

[carole]

HA HA very funny, actually I mean't to add that is the only kinda pasties I know of the eating kind.:) :D

[IttyBittyKitty]

"Won't someone please think of the children?"

http://havok.lothlorien.nu/helen.jpg

:D

Come on, lighten up guys!

EDIT: having trouble getting the IMG code to work as an img instead of a url .. weird.

[primabella]

Originally posted by IttyBittyKitty
"Won't someone please think of the children?"

http://havok.lothlorien.nu/helen.jpg

:D

Come on, lighten up guys!

EDIT: having trouble getting the IMG code to work as an img instead of a url .. weird.

LOL IBK! :D Good ol' Simpsons...;)

[mahayana]

Greetings to everyone- I am a fan of the Doghouse forum. I live in a house full of pets and my wife spends a lot of time at Pet Talk. This is my first post since I joined up.

What bothers me is intolerance, name-calling, put-downs, and hostility. I love the controversial subjects and hope you will continue discussing them. I am a pacifist ( though I spent the last two years working on an Air Force base), a long-time opponent of the death penalty, and (as you may have guessed by the name I chose) I have an affinity for zen buddhism.

"I strive to become enlightened, for the sake of all living creatures" is a buddhist precept. Peace and love!

[tatsxxx11]

Wonderfully said, Mahayana:) You echo my sentiments completely! It's not the controversial nature of the subject matter discussed in the Dog House that concerns me. But the manner in which it is addressed, the tone of the discussion , is what either draws me in or turns me away. I've always found great wisdom in the thinking of Mark Twain...To paraphrase, when engaging in debate, one is most convincing when the rhetoric is kept civil!:) When the dialogue becomes too personal, all credibility, as well as your point, is lost! Welcome to Pet Talk...hope you join in the discussion sometime soon!:)

[trayi52]

Welcome mahayana, I agree 100% with you. Its good to debate an issue, but when the subject starts getting ugly and insulting on a personal bases, then the subject becomes uninteresting to me.

[Twisterdog]

I stick by my original comments. This is the DH, and I don't want to have to censore myself because of some (or any) child. I would find PT alot less enjoyable, and would contemplate leaving, because it wouldn't be serving my needs any longer. I think my opinion should 'count' just as much as some child's.

I agree. That's what this forum was created for in the first place - things that might offend. Right?

And, if I remember the rules correctly when I signed up, there is an age limit on this site. Fourteen, I believe? So, there really shouldn't be anyone under the age of fourteen reading anything on here, according to the official rules. We shouldn't have to keep every conversation suitable for a six year old. So, basically, conversations need to be "Rated PG-13" ... not rated R or X, for sure ... but also, not necesarily rated G, either.

I've never personally seen anything on Pet Talk that I wouldn't let my twelve year old read. There's a big wide world out there, people, and these teenagers a part of it. I'm quite sure they hear and see far worse things on television, at school, hanging out with their friends than they ever do here. Pet Talk, at it's bawdiest, is still very, very tame.

[gini]

7:00 PM - Prime Time Television - Saturday Night

Jack in the Box Commercial

Scene: Conference room - filled with men and women

Discussion: Naming a new sandwich made of chicken breasts.

Jack: What should we name this new sandwich???? Jack continues and says - "chicken" "breasts" hmmm......breasts.......

Scene: All of the men start to snicker and pass notes.
The women are stone faced.

Man raises his hand and Jack says "don't go there Steve"

Cut to picture of a bag that says Jack in the Box Chicken Breast Sandwich.

What do you do when you have kids in the room watching this?
Turn off the television? Go out and get some Jack in the Box sandwiches?

There have been many lewd things posted on Pet Talk. I recall one Sunday morning years ago and Karen was breaking her neck to race around and delete someone's filthy comments - and they were filthy. Then she banned the poster.

I have deleted a thread not because of the political comments, but because people were becoming nasty and hurting other people's feelings. Totally unnecessary.

It is one thing to be a sharp wit and totally another to post biting comments that might hurt someone else.

Can we stop it? Probably not. Unless you initiated the thread all you can do is complain and share your feelings with Karen or Paul.

There are those who just cannot resist.........and we all know who they are.

This is such a fun place, all about pets, photos, meetings and sharing a part of your lives. And yes, Thursdays, it is a great place to drop by for a laugh and a virtual drink.

And this is the Dog House.....what did you expect to find down here.... angels on fluffy pillows...wings fluttering in the breeze?

[micki76]

Originally posted by gini
7:00 PM - Prime Time Television - Saturday Night

Jack in the Box Commercial

Scene: Conference room - filled with men and women

Discussion: Naming a new sandwich made of chicken breasts.

Jack: What should we name this new sandwich???? Jack continues and says - "chicken" "breasts" hmmm......breasts.......

Scene: All of the men start to snicker and pass notes.
The women are stone faced.

Man raises his hand and Jack says "don't go there Steve"

Cut to picture of a bag that says Jack in the Box Chicken Breast Sandwich.

What do you do when you have kids in the room watching this?
Turn off the television? Go out and get some Jack in the Box sandwiches?

There have been many lewd things posted on Pet Talk. I recall one Sunday morning years ago and Karen was breaking her neck to race around and delete someone's filthy comments - and they were filthy. Then she banned the poster.

I have deleted a thread not because of the political comments, but because people were becoming nasty and hurting other people's feelings. Totally unnecessary.

It is one thing to be a sharp wit and totally another to post biting comments that might hurt someone else.

Can we stop it? Probably not. Unless you initiated the thread all you can do is complain and share your feelings with Karen or Paul.

There are those who just cannot resist.........and we all know who they are.

This is such a fun place, all about pets, photos, meetings and sharing a part of your lives. And yes, Thursdays, it is a great place to drop by for a laugh and a virtual drink.

And this is the Dog House.....what did you expect to find down here.... angels on fluffy pillows...wings fluttering in the breeze?

Was this a show that kids should be watching? Just curious. My niece doesn't watch much prime time. Mostly WB stuff like 7th Heaven and such. A lot of stuff that's on TV during prime time shouldn't be viewed by kids, obviously. (By kids I don't mean teenagers. Everyone keeps talking about the teens and believe me THEY could make this board a lot nastier than we could if they chose to!)

Please do not respond nastily or snidely people (there's been enough of that), I am just asking a simple question and stating what my family's kids watch. I really don't want anyone getting defensive, I'm just curious.

[gini]

Micki76 - I am not sure, but I think it was CBS.

I was cooking and had the television on and just happened to turn around and see that commercial.

My niece wasn't here tonight so it was just me and the chicken breast commercial taking on the world:D :D

[captain]

Sorry ...... but I was glancing through the posts, read pasties ........... and thought you were talking about PIES! Then read the stipper comments ........

Cornish Pasties ................... :D . :rolleyes:

...... walks off chuckling ...........

[RICHARD]

Here I go......

Finding out what makes people tick ( a good bath with flea repellant does the trick;) ....) is the thing I love about PT....

Yes we are all pet lovers, but we do operate in other parts of the
'world'.

The 'pet facet' of our personalities is why we are here, but
we also eat, sleep, love, care, wonder, cry, yell and carry on just LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

So why should we be different?

Someone posted a thread about heart break.

In any other place on the 'net you'd get all kinds of BS and crap.

The person thought enough about us to ask for OUR opinion....

PET TALKERS!!!

SHE ASKED ADVICE FROM PET TALKERS!!!

She trusted everyone on the site to make her heartbreak known and then asked us our opinion about it...

We may all be Pet Talkers, but we are all humans first....
and when we lose sight of that, we are all lost.....

Everyone!!!

Get over yourselves, your opinions and beliefs....have a little faith in humanity and let go of your beliefs.....


it's good to sin every now and then......
but make sure it's your sin, not someone else's!

[Twisterdog]

Good post, Richard. I agree.

[captain]

Well Done Richard!

[mahayana]

The world situation bothers me. I miss the Iraq thread. I shudder every time there is news of people killing people with bombs, rockets, bullets....Do you think we will get past discussing lewdness and rudeness, and maybe talk about national and international problems again?

[Kfamr]

Or maybe get back to what PET Talk was made for ? :p

[mahayana]

perhaps you are right, Kfamr....but my pets don't really bother me!Sometimes a cat will nearly trip me, rubbing against my ankles. Or a possession will get chewed or scratched....writing a $700 check to the vet bothers me if I'm short of cash!

Do you think it's inappropriate mention big worries, like nuclear war and social injustice, in Pet Talk?

[2kitties]

Originally posted by mahayana
The world situation bothers me. I miss the Iraq thread. I shudder every time there is news of people killing people with bombs, rockets, bullets....Do you think we will get past discussing lewdness and rudeness, and maybe talk about national and international problems again?

You can start a thread on any topic you like.

[babolaypo65]

I have not posted on this thread til now. Here's my .02:

I respect Aly's feelings. I have often taken a second look at what I'm typing and with the younger members of PT in mind have deleted or rephrased what I was saying. Before any of the younger members tell me not to lump them together or what not-I'm a teacher. Always will be. Can't help how that shapes my thinking.

As a teacher I also think PT has been good. We've seen some good solid debates, and some good discussions of the issues. I like knowing the younger members are getting some experience with debate and discussion.

THURSDAYS: it's a cyber bar. No one is drinking alcohol. And, in fact probably half of the regulars don't drink cyber alcohol even.

Now, the one thing that bothers me? The bickering and immature arguing that happens (mostly in general) among some posters. Usually the same ones. I don't want to see it, so usually I don't read it.
HOWEVER, each time one of these junior high arguments happens I wonder how many people are visiting PT for the first time and what is their impression. How many great folks are we never going to meet because they have to sift through
20 eye roll posts, and nasty comments. They don't know that the eyerollers are kids. I didn't know when I first began. It's a bad first impression. I wouldn't come back if I'd seen that silliness my first few visits.

I think Richard has a great point though about PT-ers coming to eachother to discuss non pet things. We are like people with a common thread, it's logical that we would feel comfortable talking about non- pet things with eachother. Back to Thursdays. Two or three weeks ago lots of bad stuff was happening to PT-ers. Thursdays was a somber place. A place folks could go for some solace. Each of us looks for something different from the group. Don't take that away.

There. My two cents.

Again, I think this is a good discussion.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Or maybe get back to what PET Talk was made for ? :p


If you look at the different forums, you will see there are MANY things PT was 'made' for..not just pets. Some people like to talk/argue/debate things besides pets....while I love my pets, and they take up alot of my life, they are NOT my life...

[Soledad]

*snort*

[2kitties]

Originally posted by Cataholic
If you look at the different forums, you will see there are MANY things PT was 'made' for..not just pets. Some people like to talk/argue/debate things besides pets....while I love my pets, and they take up alot of my life, they are NOT my life...

you said it sister!

And since Soledad covered the *snort* sound effect, I'll chime in with *waaaaaa*

[Kfamr]

LiKE OMG ARE YOU SeRIOUs!?!?!?111111!!1

I never realized such a thing! *snort nsort snorT*

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Cataholic
If you look at the different forums, you will see there are MANY things PT was 'made' for..not just pets. Some people like to talk/argue/debate things besides pets....while I love my pets, and they take up alot of my life, they are NOT my life...

Your pets *aren't* your life?!?! :eek: OMG! Are you serious?!?!?! ;)

He he. Just kidding. I agree with you. While I love my pets with all my heart and a MAJOR part of my life is devoted to them, they are not my *life*. My *life* is my life. They are a big part of it, an enormous part of it, but not *it*. :p I mean...........there are other things that I spend my life on as well, and they are all little *parts* of my life, but not my *life*. Everything in my life is a part of it, but I cannot call it my life........just a part of my life; pets a major part........ so I do understand what you're saying by they are not your *life*, and I agree.

Now..........must copy Soledad

*snort*

LOL

Ps. I think Pet Talk would become boring if the one and ONLY thing we talked about was PETS..........nothing else, but PETS. I like diversity. While I LOVE LOVE LOVE pets, I like to talk about other things too.........with passion. :)

[aly]

I know I said I was done with this thread, so shoot me.

I don't know where half the stuff you guys are talking about is coming from. My original post said nothing about talking about subjects other than pets :confused: :confused: I also stated several times that controversial topics are fine and dandy. I don't mind the good debate threads - it would be boring if we all agreed. The only thing I was pointing out in this thread was adult language and adult references. Thats it.


PS - My pets ARE my LIFE !!!!! (But in no way do I expect everyone to be like that)

[tatsxxx11]

Actually, it wasn't all that long ago that Pet Talk WAS strictly pet related. There was no "General" catagory, no "Marketplace" and no "Dog House." The General catagory came about because too much of the Dogs General forum was being taken up by members discussing personal matters. Correct me if I'm wrong Karen:) Either that, or no one was posting in General and all such subject matter was then directed to General. The "Dog House" evolved when some of the threads in General started to address some rather controversial topics. There was none of the current enhancements such as html coding, "color" the ability to "attach." and we actually did manage to fill up pages and pages of "just pet" discussion iin boring black and white.:D

Many new members were befuddled as they had joined for the purpose of discussing dogs and instead found pages of personal chatter about the weekend, favorite movies, etc in the "pets" sections!:D I find nothing wrong with strictly "one subject" related forums. It doesn't mean that because you go to a particular site that defines itself as a "pet"forum or whatever, and does not include personal/"other" subject catagories or "talk", your life revolves around that exclusively. It may be your passion, your profession, your love, whatever. Actually, I know some people who go to such sites to get AWAY from their peronal lives!:D And many sites, such as PT, are able to blend both subject and personal discussion quite nicely. I too like discussing my opinions and current events, things going on in my life, etc. and I can hold my own in any debate and enjoy a good intellectual challenge. But as has been stated ad nauseum, I really hate when the level of discussion takes on a nasty, jugemental tone. I get enough of that in my "real life." I often wonder if people who are so rude on the internet have the courage and strength of their convictions to be so blantly offensive when discussing matters face to face. There is something to be said for taking a tactful approach, if only to make one's point more aptly.

I remember when I first got my computer. I was so excited to search out all of those forums and chat rooms I had heard so much about. I have a background in horticulture and was especially interested in checking out such forums as well as animal/pet related ones. I was shocked when I visited a few, only to find anything BUT that subject being discussed and as well, a lot of flaming, slamming, aruging and nasty, really nasty language. It swore me off to internet forums for a long time until I found Best Friends Animal Sanctuary message board, which led me to Pet Talk.

Aly, I know what you're saying. But I think this thread has taken the turn it has as much of the "talk" you may find objectional is found on the "other" non pet related forums.

[popcornbird]

Ah, Sandra.......you sure know the history of PT better than us! I had no idea there was no General before! :eek: How interesting! And I know Pet Talk WAS created for PETS, but I do like the fact that we can discuss other things here as well. :)

PS. Sorry for going off-topic Aly. I know very well what you meant by creating this thread, and as I said before, I agree with you on that. :)

[IttyBittyKitty]

My $AU 0.02 is worth even less in American currency!

:D


Originally posted by Kfamr
Or maybe get back to what PET Talk was made for ? :p

Those who agree with this sentiment need to remember why Karen and Paul created the "Other" forums in the first place. As tatsxxx11 so eloquently said, it was to "purify" the rest of the Pet Talk forums of non-related material so that posts in those forums focussed on the matter at hand - pets, pets, and more PETS! :D

If people want to just talk about pets, hey that's fine, because for many it is an escape from the harsh realities discussed in the Dog House and sometimes General forums. Many people do stick to the pet forums. For those of us who want to share something else, something profound on different levels, with our new Pet Talkin' friends that's alright too. We have much to offer each other in terms of support, a friendly argument/debate (and lets leave subjective put downs out of it please) and a giggle (thanks Richard! :) )!

Be the watchdogs, folks, nothing like a little peer group pressure to raise standards. If you see an inappropriate post REPORT IT straight away to Karen/Paul.

[clara4457]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
I really hate when the level of discussion takes on a nasty, jugemental tone. I get enough of that in my "real life." I often wonder if people who are so rude on the internet have the courage and strength of their convictions to be so blantly offensive when discussing matters face to face. There is someting to be said for taking a tactful approach, if only to make one's point more aptly.

Well said!!

[Cheshirekatt]

It seems like some people are very judgemental of things they may not know anything about. It's sad.

[aly]

Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
It seems like some people are very judgemental of things they may not know anything about. It's sad.

What are you talking about?

[Karen]

Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Actually, it wasn't all that long ago that Pet Talk WAS strictly pet related. There was no "General" catagory, no "Marketplace" and no "Dog House." The General catagory came about because too much of the Dogs General forum was being taken up by members discussing personal matters. Correct me if I'm wrong Karen:) Either that, or no one was posting in General and all such subject matter was then directed to General. The "Dog House" evolved when some of the threads in General started to address some rather controversial topics. There was none of the current enhancements such as html coding, "color" the ability to "attach." and we actually did manage to fill up pages and pages of "just pet" discussion iin boring black and white.

General has existed all along. The only "new forums" - ones that were not present at the birth of Pet Talk, are the Dog House, Marketplace and now the Meetings forum. Perhaps, Sandra, you just didn't scroll down there right away, so discovered it later! ;)

I do want Pet Talk to be a friendly place. We should all be respectful of each other. If we disagree, do so politely. And, as I have said before, if a particular post offends you, PM me! The sooner you do, the sooner I can address the problem.

What we have in common - the love for pets - is far stronger than any differences between us, I believe. And we believe that every pet is special. And every person is, too, right?

[Logan]

Yes Mam!!! I do believe we are on the same page, Karen!! :)