Opinions on this story???

[Logan]

I still have mixed feelings.......wonder what all of you think

Puppy Chews Off Fingertips Of 6-Year-Old Asleep In Bed
By CASSIO FURTADO [email protected]
Published: Oct 15, 2003




TAMPA - Six-year-old Dontavius Bryant went to sleep Sunday night with Chauka, his 5 1/2-week-old puppy his aunt gave him two weeks ago.
When Dontavius woke up Monday morning, he saw blood in his bed and looked at his hands. Chauka, a mix of chow and pit bull, had chewed four fingertips down to the second knuckle of the boy's left hand.

``My brother told me to look at my hand,'' said Dontavius, sitting in a wheelchair Tuesday afternoon during a news conference at St. Joseph's Children's Hospital. His left hand was wrapped in white gauze.

``I looked at it, and it was bleeding,'' he said.

Dontavius, who is right- handed, didn't feel the dog biting his fingers because an accident a year ago caused numbness in his left hand.

Dontavius was hit by a pickup truck in October while trying to cross East Columbus Drive, according to police reports. He was heading home after playing football in a church parking lot across the street. He darted into the road and was hit by the pickup, which didn't stop to help him, according to police reports.

The accident left him partially paralyzed on his left side, said his mother, Shawn Dewberry.

Asked by reporters if he felt any pain or was scared when he woke up Monday morning, he said no.

His mother was.

Dewberry woke up to take her older children to school, saw Dontavius' hand and started screaming.

``When I woke up, four of his fingers were off. It was a lot of blood,'' she said. ``He went to sleep with 10 fingers, woke up with six.''

Dewberry rushed Dontavius to St. Joseph's Children's Hospital.

Dewberry said her son underwent reconstructive surgery at St. Joseph's. She said doctors used skin from his stomach to cover his damaged fingers.

Chauka was taken by Hillsborough County Animal Control and euthanized. A necropsy determined he had chewed the child's fingers.

Dewberry said Dontavius didn't wash his hands after dinner Sunday, and Chauka licked his fingers before both went to bed.

Chauka will be the last dog Dontavius will have, his mother said.

``I don't want more dogs,'' Dewberry said. ``We're going to stick to fish, to birds. No pets like dogs.''

He will still be able to play video games, one of his passions. Dontavius, a student at Potter Elementary, enjoys playing his Nintendo video game. He was playing at the hospital.

``I'll be OK. I can still play video games with one hand,'' he said.

The boy could be released from St. Joseph's as soon as today, and he already has plans for when he returns home.

``I want to go outside and play ... and watch TV,'' he said.


Reporter Cassio Furtado can be reached at (813) 259-7616.

[Logan]

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGAH2HPSSLD.html

[Kfamr]

I don't think a 6 year old should have a 5 & 1/2 week old puppy.
And his aunt gave it to him TWO weeks ago!?!?!? Meaning the puppy was ony 3 & 1/2 weeks when the child recieved it!?!??! :mad: :mad: :mad:
What was this lady thinking??

He especially shouldn't have been able to have the puppy in his bed, while sleeping. Who knows what the puppy could have gotten into, and look what he did get into.

If the dog was safely in a cage while the child slept, nothing would have happend.

What's going to happen with the puppy?

Idiots are probably going to hold this against the breed of the puppy and are going to make the breeds look even worse, if that's possible.
:mad: :rolleyes: :mad:

[Soledad]

Typical PT response: It was the kid's/parent's fault!!!

:rolleyes:

[lovemyshiba]

Wow!
I can't form an opinion yet, I'm too stunned.

I am not surprised that the dog was euthanized, I have never heard of that.

And it was just a pup???

Although they do mention that the kid didn't wash his hands before he went to sleep.........

That is why responsible owners crate train their dogs.

I am not blaming the mother, but they probably shouldn't have had a dog anyway.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
Typical PT response: It was the kid's/parent's fault!!!

:rolleyes:

Well, obviously.

No child should have a 3 & 1/2 week old puppy.

[Soledad]

It was five and a half weeks old. And why shouldn't a child be able to be near one? And should it be HIS fault when his *&@!$ fingers get CHEWED off??!!

This puppy was not well. End of story.

[Kfamr]

OMG. I didn't read the euthanized part!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :( :( :( :(

[2kitties]

Okay. Are we HONESTLY supposed to believe this dog chewed off the kids fingers adn the kid DIDN'T WAKE UP?
Give me a break. There is more to this than reported.

[Soledad]

He was PARALYZED on his left side.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
It was five and a half weeks old. And why shouldn't a child be able to be near one? And should it be HIS fault when his *&@!$ fingers get CHEWED off??!!

This puppy was not well. End of story.


Ok, but he got it at 3 & a 1/2. I puppy shouldn't even be away from it's mother at that age, let alone owned by a 6 year old.

No, it's not his fault that his fingers were chewed off, nor was it the puppies fault it wasn't properly taken care of.

[Soledad]

Maybe it wasn't an ideal situation, but that does not mean it would turn a NORMAL dog into a finger eating monster.

The dog was obviously unwell. It probably would have gotten worse as it grew. I think it needed to be destroyed.

[Kfamr]

"A finger eating moster"

LMAO.:rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:

If the puppy had something it was supposed to chew on, it would have i'm sure.

Since normally, puppies DO chew on your fingers while their teething, a person with full feeling in their hands would say OUCH or NO, and correct the puppy.

[Soledad]

I don't believe that for a minute. A normal dog would not do that. I've had four puppies in my lifetime and none of them were capable of eating my fingers. I never kennel/crate trained one of them, they slept in my bedroom even as little puppies, and *SHOCK, HORROR, GASP* I always woke up with my fingers (washed or unwashed).:rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

No ones telling you have to 'believe it', but it's my opinion.

Such a young child should not have had such a young puppy.


Poor poor child, poor poor poor puppy. :(

[wolfsoul]

I'm having some troubles believing some of the things that have been said. Sounds more like another "oooh pit bulls and chows are evil" stories. I also don't believe that a five and a half week old puppy would be able to chew on four -- or any -- fingers. Their teeth are sharp, but they aren't yet designed for cutting through bone. I know I don't usually enjoy comparing wild dogs and domesticated dogs -- but their teeth are the same. Wolf pups aren't weaned onto solid food until 2 months, and even then it's regurgiated for them, because the bones and hide are too hard for them to chew off.

Maybe some of the story has some truth, but it just sounds like another publicity scandal.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
I'm having some troubles believing some of the things that have been said. Sounds more like another "oooh pit bulls and chows are evil" stories. I also don't believe that a five and a half week old puppy would be able to chew on four -- or any -- fingers. Their teeth are sharp, but they aren't yet designed for cutting through bone. I know I don't usually enjoy comparing wild dogs and domesticated dogs -- but their teeth are the same. Wolf pups aren't weaned onto solid food until 2 months, and even then it's regurgiated for them, because the bones and hide are too hard for them to chew off.

Maybe some of the story has some truth, but it just sounds like another publicity scandal.

Good points--

Iwish it wasn't a truth or a lie, but I do hope it's a lie, i hope they wouldnt put such a young puppy to sleep because it chewed.:(

Come to think of it, I havn't heard anything on the news about it...
But, I have found other articals.

[CamCamPup33]

WTF..:mad: Kayann is totally and completly right.. Im sorry but it sounds a little stupid when you say that a puppy chewed off someones fingers.. I cant believe they are gonna be putting the dog down.. kay your right now chows and pitt bulls are gonna even have a worse reputation then they already have.. GIVE me a break.. its a little stupid for a 6 year old kid to have a dog with him in the room obviously the puppy isnt gonna be perfect and not do anything.. puppies do need something to keep them occupied if they arent in the cage.... So now the little puppy is a finger eating monster? :rolleyes: um..


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Kfamr]

Here's another story...
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/15/Hillsborough/6_year_old_boy_loses_.shtml

"I believe the dog didn't know what he was doing," Thomas said. "He was friendly. Everybody loved him."

[Soledad]

Yes, the puppy is a finger chewing monster. I'm sure there were shoes, furniture or any number of things the dog COULD have chewed on.

And I don't think the next door neighbor is the utmost authority on this issue. :rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Here's another story...
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/15/Hillsborough/6_year_old_boy_loses_.shtml


I found a few grammar mistakes in this one. You'd think a real editor would check over it..........

[Kfamr]

I really can't believe this lady....... oh my gosh... :mad: :mad: :rolleyes: :mad: :mad:

[CamCamPup33]

Soledad- maybe there wasnt anything the dog could chew on.. how do u know the kid isnt homeless and doesnt have furniture? .. :rolleyes:

that story seems full of more explanation.. Maybe it was just like a corn dog tasting rawhide bone.. But no its a vicious cruel animal who needs to be euthinized because he scented food and chewed.. its not like the dog could actually say.. "hmm this tastes like finger lets stop chewing" the dog didnt know what he was doing.. but yet their gonna euthinize him... stupid kid shoulda washed his hands..


:rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:

[Soledad]

CamCam - I guess I'd take your arguments a lot more seriously if you tried to learn how to spell. The child is clearly NOT homeless!!? I can't believe I'm dignifying your post with a response.

[Kfamr]

Oh dear, That post REALLY made you sound mature!:rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by CamCamPup33
Soledad- maybe there wasnt anything the dog could chew on.. how do u know the kid isnt homeless and doesnt have furniture? .. :rolleyes:

Cuz it said he was in bed? :D :p

[Soledad]

Yes, I am greatly concerned with what a fifteen year old internet stranger thinks of my maturity level. Intensely. Passionately.

[popcornbird]

Sad sad story. I feel for the child. Poor thing will have to live his life without his fingers now. :(

As for the breed getting a worse name, the breeds with bad names only have bad names because they do such things much much more than other breeds. Its a fact that cannot be denied. Most likely, because people do not raise them properly, but still, the reason their name is bad is because they do such things a lot more commonly than other dogs.

*shrugs*

Camcam? Homeless? You don't know how much that made me laugh! LOL LOL LOL :eek:

[Kfamr]

Obviously!

:D

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Sad sad story. I feel for the child. Poor thing will have to live his life without his fingers now. :(

As for the breed getting a worse name, the breeds with bad names only have bad names because they do such things much much more than other breeds. Its a fact that cannot be denied. Most likely, because people do not raise them properly, but still, the reason their name is bad is because they do such things a lot more commonly than other dogs.


Actually it's the exact oppisite. The reason they get such publicity isn't because of how often they bite -- which isn't often at all -- but the extent of damage the bites cause.

It's a fact that you are ten times as likely to be bitten by a golden retriever than a pit bull. 1.) because they are more common 2.)because they are bred more unscrupulously. But it's still a fact.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by Soledad
CamCam - I guess I'd take your arguments a lot more seriously if you tried to learn how to spell. The child is clearly NOT homeless!!? I can't believe I'm dignifying your post with a response.

um... k? :rolleyes: so i cant spell? Ok ill try to get back in school right away.. :rolleyes:

LOL jordan he could have a bed made from wood.. :D :D

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Most likely, because people do not raise them properly,


And that's the ONLY reason they do such things.

Because of breeds such as chows, pit bulls, rotties and so on and their built and muscles, people use them as weapons and don't treat them as living beings. They treat them as property, without feelings. In reality, dogs have as much feelings as humans do, whether it be pit bull or labrador.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Camcam? Homeless? You don't know how much that made me laugh! LOL LOL LOL :eek:

well they never really said anything so hey u never know!! LOL plus it was kinda a joke until people take things too seriously :rolleyes:

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Kfamr
And that's the ONLY reason they do such things.



Yeah but that's the thing. Its because people don't raise them properly that they cause damage and harm to others, but people don't realize that. When they hear a pit bull did this and a rottie did that on the news all the time, that's the message they're getting. I don't blame them........its not their fault. They don't know how the dogs were raised. They only know that they did this and did that, and its very often done by the same few breeds.

Wolfsoul, no, its not the complete opposite. I wasn't talking about bites. I was talking about damaging bites.........:p

Camcam, homeless people can't afford to care for themselves, let alone a dog. Its clear that that kid isn't any homeless. That's a silly argument. :p (ps. I know you're joking)

[2kitties]

But, I'm still not clear on this. bear with me i'm slow
Don't you think you'd wake up if something was biting off your fingers?

[Soledad]

Not if your entire life side was paralyzed, meaning WITHOUT feeling.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Camcam, homeless people can't afford to care for themselves, let alone a dog. Its clear that that kid isn't any homeless. That's a silly argument. :p (ps. I know you're joking)

That is a very false statement.. I know plenty of people who are homeless and have dogs.. The dogs are much more cared for then the owners.. like i said i was joking until people turned it around.. your right its a stupid argument but like i said did they ever say in there that they werent homeless? :p ok done..

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
.

Wolfsoul, no, its not the complete opposite. I wasn't talking about bites. I was talking about damaging bites.........:p

Oh, okies lol. But either way, it's such a rare occurence, but the media makes it seem like people die from dog bites from pits and rotties every day. It's just like shark attacks. You're 10 times as likely to get struck by lightening than attacked by a shark, but the media over-portrays it.

[2kitties]

OH DEAR! hits self on stupid side of head
My mistake. I read too quickly. I read that he was left paralyzed for some reason, not that he was paralyzed before.

Now the story makes much more sense to me and is plausible.

:rolleyes: how'd miss that?

[Soledad]

Don't worry, I do it too. I'm an overly eager reader. ;)

[Kfamr]

The story says

caused numbness in his left hand.
Which sounds like he wasn't COMPLETELY paralyzed, but couldn't feel much.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Kfamr


Which sounds like he wasn't COMPLETELY paralyzed, but couldn't feel much.
And in most cases of numbness, you may not be able to feel pain, but you can definatly feel. If I has a puppy chewing on my "numb" hand I think I'd feel it. And you would also think that the puppy would brush another part of the kid and wake him up. You know how dogs grab bones with their front paws and chew? That kind of thing. I don't buy the story a bit.

[Soledad]

I think we'd have to know this individual's medical history to know the level of numbness, etc. Add that to the fact that little kids sleep HARD, they have more REM sessions as a child than ever in their adult lives.

[popcornbird]

Slight numbness, maybe you can feel a bit, but extreme numbness................nope, you can't feel a thing. When they use anesthesia on patients when doing a surgery, it makes the patients NUMB, and they cannot feel the surgery, no matter how much the doctors cut them open, until the effect is gone.

[Kfamr]

Still I stand by my original opinion, the YOUNG child should NOT have such a YOUNG puppy.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Still I stand by my original opinion, the YOUNG child should NOT have such a YOUNG puppy.

and i stand with you! ;)

[Soledad]

Lots of young children have young puppies. You may not like it and it may not be the best thing, but it happens. At least someone is taking the dog in and feeding them, etc.

What's not normal is for a six year old child to wake up with four fewer finger than he had when he went to bed. Unwashed hands or not, this is NOT normal puppy behavior.

I'm not putting it down to breed or age, I just think this puppy was a dud.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Soledad


What's not normal is for a six year old child to wake up with four fewer finger than he had when he went to bed. Unwashed hands or not, this is NOT normal puppy behavior.

That's why I don't believe the story. I don't believe it's possible for a five week old puppy to bite through a person's fingers.

[Soledad]

It may not be LIKELY, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. There's a difference.

I'm sure that the doctors would have noticed if the injuries were inconsistent with dog bites. What do you think these people have to gain by lying?:confused:

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Soledad
What do you think these people have to gain by lying?:confused:
Publicity, entertainment....

I'm not saying that something like this happened and that the doctors and the victims were lying, I'm just saying that maybe the article was false, just like the Macdonalds one we encountered a while ago.

[Soledad]

Really? The thing is, I never saw those Scopes.com type stories in the news. Only through emails.

I think it's true as the whole thing seems too weird NOT to be.

[luckies4me]

I don't believe this story one bit. First off there are TONS of errors in almost every article I read about it and it seems that things keep changing and changing. They also talked about it on the radio as well, and hrmm, seems like they have a different side as well.


I agree with Kayann, yes kids have young puppies but Soledad you are missing her argument. They aquired this puppy at THREE weeks of age!!! That is not old enough for a pup to leave his mother, period, I don't care who the hell owned it. If it was motherless maybe, but that is way too young.

[micki76]

Originally posted by popcornbird
When they use anesthesia on patients when doing a surgery, it makes the patients NUMB, and they cannot feel the surgery, no matter how much the doctors cut them open, until the effect is gone.

Actually, the anesthesia doesn’t make the patient numb. It only puts the mind and body in a state of suspension. The body can’t feel pain without the brains help. There have been numerous cases of patients who are totally awake in surgery, but unable to move and tell the doctors. They are completely aware and feel all the pain from the surgery.

Numbness and paralysis are two different things. If your hands numb, that means you have sensation in it. Paralysis means the nerves were damaged and no feeling will be possible, particularly if the nerves were severed.

On the subject of the pup eating the fingers. I believe a pit pup has the jaw power to chew through a child’s fingers. Many times I had to stop Chester from chewing on my hands, fingers, and toes when he was a pup. Now, if I were asleep and therefore couldn't feel it or see him to stop him (and my hands smelled of, and probably still had on them, people food) he probably would have kept on chewing. Chester wouldn't have had the capabilities to eat my hand, but a different breed would.

And this is really no ones “fault”. Just one of those truly horrible things that happen to people. No the tiny pup shouldn’t have been in the bed, but in a crate. No the pup shouldn’t have been taken from its mother so young. And yes the child should have washed his hands after eating. Did any of these things cause this? Yes all of them contributed to the horrific incident. But still, really no one’s fault, except maybe the breeders that would allow a pup to be taken at 3 and a half weeks.

I do not think this is the pups fault either. It was doing something quite natural to a pup that should have still been with his mother. Eating at the smell of food. I think the fact that the kid didn’t wash his hands after dinner was the entire reason that the pups instincts took over and kicked in his hunger drive. That’s what made him eat the fingers. Not a bad pup, just one that smelled food of some sort and ate. Survival instinct.

Many times I was severely bitten (to the point of blood once) after eating chicken and not washing. Should Chester have been destroyed? No, of course not.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Soledad
Really? The thing is, I never saw those Scopes.com type stories in the news. Only through emails.



Which would make me suspect that it is false even more so. Most stories like this that are true are usually on the news.

[Soledad]

These puppies (http://dogsindia.com/picture_of_the_week_pg2.htm) look large enough to bite tiny fingers to me.

[Kfamr]

Their large, but it doesn't mean their teeth are strong enough or large.

[Soledad]

I've seen puppies that age tear through a rawhide bone and pig's ear. Can you tell me, scientifically, if a six year old's finger bones are so tough that they cannot be bitten off by a puppy?

[luckies4me]

I think ANY dog can do damage to a finger, especially if hungry. How do we know they even fed the dog and it wasn't starving? One of my rats bit Dylan once so badly he had to have 6 stitches in his finger, because he had the smell of food on his hand. Did we euthanize the rat? NO, why? Because she thought it was food and bit first and asked questions later. Was it our fault? Damn right it was, Dan should have closed the door behind him and never let Dylan in there as he knew that doe was fed through the bars in the past, teaching her that everything that came into the cage was food, not human fingers.

When you become a parent you have a special responsibility to keep your children safe. If I knew my son was paralyzed and could not feel biting I would make sure I supervised my son and the dogs interaction together, since puppies are known to playbite and knawl etc.

[Soledad]

You have a good point, Luckies. However, I don't think it's unreasonable that a mother wouldn't think that letting her two sons sleep with their new puppy would end like this.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Their large, but it doesn't mean their teeth are strong enough or large.

A friend of mine breeds American Bulldogs similar to that breed and yes they could very much chew off a finger. These dogs are HUGE. Her new 6 month old pup already weighs 125 pounds.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Soledad
You have a good point, Luckies. However, I don't think it's unreasonable that a mother wouldn't think that letting her two sons sleep with their new puppy would end like this.


I don't think any mother would ever dreamed something like this would happen. It's terrible this happened, if it did, and I feel sorry for both the dog and the son. But the truth is, none of us knows what really happened. Could have been the kids fault and no one is saying anything, or it could have been that the dog was just starving or had a few screws lose in his head. We will never know.

[Kfamr]

Micki, this is scary -- We've been agreeing too much lately. :rolleyes: :p :p :p

[luckies4me]

I don't like the mother comment about dogs though. Saying how she would stick to fish and birds, and not have animals "Like dogs".

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by luckies4me
I don't like the mother comment about dogs though. Saying how she would stick to fish and birds, and not have animals "Like dogs".


Yeah, that bothered me too.
Doesn't seem like the mother is too bright.

[Soledad]

I don't know...I'd be pretty scarred if I were her. That's about the nicest thing I could probably come up with.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Micki, this is scary -- We've been agreeing too much lately. :rolleyes: :p :p :p

:eek:

LOL! I know KayAnn. We need to stop it and get back to fighting! :p :D

[popcornbird]

If a loved one of mine had his/her fingers bit OFF by ANY type of animal, I wouldn't have anything to do with that type of animal again. I think its a very valid point. She's obviously upset about what happened to her child, and if she doesn't feel comfortable to have a dog as a pet anymore, that's none of anyone's business. Its her choice. If I was bit hard enough by a cat that it would even cause me to have stitches, I don't think I would be brave enough to go near a cat again, despite how much I love them. Just an example. Why should we care if she doesn't plan on having a dog again?

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by micki76
:eek:

LOL! I know KayAnn. We need to stop it and get back to fighting! :p :D


*HISSES*:p ;)

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by popcornbird
If a loved one of mine had his/her fingers bit OFF by ANY type of animal, I wouldn't have anything to do with that type of animal again. I think its a very valid point. She's obviously upset about what happened to her child, and if she doesn't feel comfortable to have a dog as a pet anymore, that's none of anyone's business. Its her choice. If I was bit hard enough by a cat that it would even cause me to have stitches, I don't think I would be brave enough to go near a cat again, despite how much I love them. Just an example. Why should we care if she doesn't plan on having a dog again?

Even your own birds?

[micki76]

Originally posted by Kfamr
*HISSES*:p ;)

*Scratches out KayAnn’s eyes*

Wow, I feel better now that we're back on normal terms. :D

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Even your own birds?

MY own birds would never bite an ant, not even play bite. Birds as little as cockatiels, even when not tamed and evil, do not have the power to bite someone to that extent. They might be able to make someone bleed, but its not more than a little cut. No way possible for a little tiel to bite hard enough to really injure someone severely.

As for a macaw or larger bird, I have always had good experience with them, but if one went as far as to bite me that hard, I'm quite certain that I'd be scared of those birds for life.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by popcornbird
MY own birds would never bite an ant, not even play bite. Birds as little as cockatiels, even when not tamed and evil, do not have the power to bite someone to that extent. They might be able to make someone bleed, but its not more than a little cut. No way possible for a little tiel to bite hard enough to really injure someone severely.

As for a macaw or larger bird, I have always had good experience with them, but if one went as far as to bite me that hard, I'm quite certain that I'd be scared of those birds for life.


I'm not saying they would or they could but if it was possible and if they did, how would you feel?

And what if your birds happened to be a larger bird, and you loved them the same as you did Popcorn and Muffin, how would you feel?

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by micki76
*Scratches out KayAnn’s eyes*

Wow, I feel better now that we're back on normal terms. :D

Oh it feels good, even the scratching of eyeballs -- cause I know such actions come deeply and passionatly from the bottom of your heart. YOU DO LOVE ME!:D :D

[luckies4me]

Well I have been bitten by several different animals but am still around them. I have been attacked by dogs and cats several times, but it's not their fault. Either they were scared or it was my fault, like in the case where I got too close to a pits face and he bit me in the nose. MY fault, not his. And I still love dogs. I have been bitten by rats, and I still love rats. Her comment was very stupid because is she was bright enough she should know that one bad apple doesn't ruin the whole crop.

[stacwase]

I've taken care of lots of paralyzed people before and it's entirely possible that the child couldn't feel what was going on.

So - just to play devil's advocate, let's pretend like we believe the story's true:

We can assume that, to the little puppy, they wouldn't really be like fingers - because they wouldn't have been moving. I mean - when you're playing with puppies they bite your fingers all the time, then you jerk your hand back and say "Ouch", and the puppy learns not to chew on them. Fingers are supposed to move when you bite them.

So let's imagine an innocent little teething puppy (they are teething by that age, aren't they? I really don't know) licks these fingers and notices they taste really good. So he starts chewing on them, and they don't move so the puppy thinks it must be OK to chew them. So he just keeps chewing. Then he gets down to a nice bone to chew on, and it feels good to chew it because it's massaging his cute little gums.

So - I guess if I stretch it, I can imagine that a puppy could chew off a finger of a paralyzed person.

But 4 fingers? And the kid just got up and walked around the next morning? Come on!!! The puppy would have chewed through arteries. The kid would have lost a LOT of blood. Don't you think the kid would have at least lost consciousness from blood loss? The entire bed would have been covered with blood - you'd think that he would have gotten cold from the wet bed long before morning, assuming he was conscious.

If this did indeed happen, nobody did anything wrong though. Most people don't know that much about dogs so the mom might not have thought twice before putting the puppy in bed with her child. I'm sure she never would have imagined something like that happening. And the puppy certainly didn't do anything wrong.

Now I'm going to have to go read the story, which I haven't done yet.

[stacwase]

Oh jeez - I just read the second link. It actually sounds somewhat plausible to me. The truth is stranger than fiction. But why on earth would they euthanize the puppy? For crying out loud.

[wolfsoul]

But 4 fingers? And the kid just got up and walked around the next morning? Come on!!! The puppy would have chewed through arteries. The kid would have lost a LOT of blood. Don't you think the kid would have at least lost consciousness from blood loss? The entire bed would have been covered with blood - you'd think that he would have gotten cold from the wet bed long before morning, assuming he was conscious.
I never even thought of that, and I have to agree with you. There are lots of arteries in a hand. This is a child, a weak little child. He would be out for sure. The only way one wouldn't bleed or atleast not very much would be if he/she was in shock, which apparently wasn't the case here.

As for the anesthesia thing, when my mom had a cesarean section with me, I'm not sure what they did to her, but she could feel the entire thing. The was awake, and her body was numb, but she could still feel when they cut her open and stitched her back up. However, that was 16 years ago and so the methods have probably changed. 5 years ago when she had another C-section with my brother, she couldn't feel a thing and they stapled her up. She was sad that she didn't get to feel it, lol, she said it felt cool.

Anyways that got off topic.

[lizbud]

Logan,

Hi. You said you had mixed feelings about this, but didn't
elaborate. If you've had time to think about it, I'd really like
to know your opinion. Thanks. Liz.

[Pam]

Although I haven't read the news link, just the story, and only just now finished reading all of the comments, it does seem to me that the story could be true. Several people here have had the same thoughts that I initially did. A couple of fingers that taste good and don't move could lead a dog to believe it was food. I never met a puppy who wouldn't chew on a finger at some time in his/her puppyhood if allowed. Of course we feel the pain and pull away.

I see lots of bad things all coming together here which caused this. First of all the age of the puppy is incredible. As others have said, why was it ever adopted at such a young age. It should have remained with its mother for at least another 3 -4 weeks minimum! Secondly, the irresponsibility of the parents for reasons that others have stated. Thirdly, I do also assign some blame to the dog. I know many people get upset when they read that pit bulls and some other breeds are getting bad raps in these types of instances. Well we have discussed over and over again here at Pet Talk *RESPONSIBLE BREEDING!* This is breeding done by a professional who is always trying to improve the breed by breeding in the positive traits and and breeding out the things that are not desirable. Since pit bulls and others are so popular among those who use them for fighting, etc. it is not surprising to me that they would be the same people breeding these dogs, however with the intent of breeding the undesirable things (aggressive temperament, etc.) for their own sick ends. I don't doubt for a minute that there are sweet pit bulls available but I think that irresponsible breeding on the part of a lot of sickos has resulted in dogs that are totally inappropriate as pets. I'm not saying this dog was, but I can see it happening. Also, I am not singling out pits as the only dogs irresponsibly bred, but I think the intent there is to make as mean a dog as possible in a lot of instances. JMHO!

[lizbud]

Pam,

Do you think the breed & breeding of this particular dog made
a difference in the outcome ? In other words, was this dog
typical of other puppies his own age? (in these circumstances)

[Pam]

Liz, no I have no idea what caused this dog to do what it did. I feel that the smell of the food on the child's fingers is probably what started to put this whole scene into action. I was simply addressing something that someone had said regarding the fact that this story will just add fuel to the fire regarding pits getting a bad rap. My comments about breeding were to explain why I think pits (and others) are getting a bad rap these days. We often hear people say that "it's bad owners, not bad dogs" and that is very true. In the case of these dogs in particular I think there is a lot of poor breeding going on for the purposes I mentioned and we have a situation now where they have gotten such a bad rap from this that they are the breed we most often see in shelters because of the fear factor in adopting one from just these types of stories.

[lizbud]

Pam,

I do see what you mean & I agree. A whole lot of different
things happened & with a sad result for the child & the pup.
I do know that a 5-6 week old pup should not be left alone
overnight with any child, in bed or not. There are some people
who consider a puppy a" toy" & just hand it over to any child to
handle just like any another" toy". The adults in this picture did
not act responsibly toward the dog or the children involved. I
believe another child brought the puppy into the bed to sleep
overnight with them.(from the account that I read).

[Soledad]

Isn't the whole concept of crate training rather new? I never did it with any of my dogs, and they were all well-behaved animals.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Soledad
Isn't the whole concept of crate training rather new? I never did it with any of my dogs, and they were all well-behaved animals.

I've crated for 13 years and know people who crated for about 20 years now.

[Soledad]

Well, I got my first dog when I was seven. That was twenty two years ago. I don't think this was mainstream until I well after I had my pups. Somehow, someway, people managed to train their pets before all of this.

[Twisterdog]

Well, I got my first dog when I was seven. That was twenty two years ago. I don't think this was mainstream until I well after I had my pups. Somehow, someway, people managed to train their pets before all of this.

I agree, I don't recall ever hearing about crate training with much force until fairly recently. And I do think it is perfectly possible to train a dog well without a crate. Every dog? No. But most dogs? Certainly. Crates are a useful tool, but not the end-all, be-all solution to every canine problem. And dog owners who don't have to crate their dogs and choose not to are not evil and negligent.




But 4 fingers? And the kid just got up and walked around the next morning? Come on!!! The puppy would have chewed through arteries. The kid would have lost a LOT of blood. Don't you think the kid would have at least lost consciousness from blood loss? The entire bed would have been covered with blood - you'd think that he would have gotten cold from the wet bed long before morning, assuming he was conscious.

I agree with this. My brother cut the very tip of one of fingers off with a saw once, and the amount of blood was simply horrifying. HUGE amounts of blood, and that was the tip of one finger. What this story is claiming makes no sense.


I don't believe this story is the truth. But, giving some benefit of the doubt here, assuming it happened sort of like it was told, here's my opinion:

My opinion on the puppy: There's nothing evil about this puppy. It's a teething puppy. Maybe a hungry puppy, we don't know. If you gave a puppy a raw beef bone with some meat attached, wouldn't you think it would be perfectly normal for the puppy to chew and eat it? Of course. So, not to be gross, but to a puppy, don't you think paralyzed fingers are just the same as a beef bone with meat on it? Sure. No one is telling the puppy "No!", no one is saying, "Ouch!" and pulling their hand away. Of course the puppy isn't going to stop, why would it? It's a baby, it doesn't know any better, it hasn't been trained or taught. Maybe the child ate, say, chicken for dinner and had chicken on his hands. (Although if the child's hand is paralyzed, how is he eating dinner with that hand? Hmmm .... but I digress.) And maybe they gave the puppy some chicken too. So the fingers now smell and taste just like the chicken the puppy was given to eat. Puppy doesn't know, it's just a puppy.


My opinion on the parent: I don't think letting a new puppy sleep with a partially paralyzed six year old is the greatest idea. But it's not the worst idea either. Honestly, would 99% of parents think, "Better not do that, what if the puppy eats his hand?" It's just too bizarre; the normal, rational person wouldn't think of it. I don't think the parents were negligent. Maybe not the best choice, but not negligent.

[Kater]

Very well said, Twister.
I too wonder about blood loss, etc. This story seems a bit 'fishy.'

[carole]

Excuse my ignorance, but i have never heard of crate training a dog, except when I came to PT, please what is it? I don't think New Zealanders do this!

[Pam]

(Although if the child's hand is paralyzed, how is he eating dinner with that hand? Hmmm

Twisterdog - excellent observation! I never even gave that a thought. Have you ever considered a career in law enforcement or detective work! ;) :cool: Now I am having my doubts too. Hmmm...

I first used crates for training in 1984 - YIKES almost 20 years ago! It was at the suggestion of the breeder whom I bought my dog from that year. Initially I thought the concept was cruel but gave it a try at her suggestion. It did help in quicker housetraining and each dog that I have gotten since then has been crate trained. Of course once they proved themselves 'trustworthy' to have the run of the house it was put away. I would never want to see a dog in a crate for hours on end though. Fortunately I only worked part-time while using the crate.

[lbaker]

I don't believe it for all the valid points above. The truth will come out. Pam, tell little Ripley my Badger says "HEY BUDDY!" Hope to see you again in Doylestown next year. Three 1/2 weeks old, that pup could not survive without feedings every few hours, ask Aly.

[Kfamr]

I haven't heard anything on the news about it yet......

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by carole
Excuse my ignorance, but i have never heard of crate training a dog, except when I came to PT, please what is it? I don't think New Zealanders do this!

A crate is a portable "kennel" that is just large enough to contain the dog it is intended for, made of either metal or plastic. "Crating" is the practice of using this kennel for training purposes, usually in housetraining and houseproofing a dog.
Crating is a controversial topic. There are those who believe that crate training is indefensible and others who believe that it is a panacea. The reality is likely somewhere in between. And, Dogs are by nature den creatures and the crate, properly introduced, is its den. It is a safe haven where it does not need to worry about defending territory. It is its own private bedroom which it absolutely will not soil if it can help it. Judicious use of the crate can alleviate a number of problems, stop others from ever developing, and aid substantially in housetraining. The major use of a crate is to prevent the dog from doing something wrong and not getting corrected for it. It is useless to correct a dog for something that it has already done; the dog must be "caught in the act". If the dog is out of its crate while unsupervised, it may do something wrong and not be corrected, or worse yet, corrected after the fact. If the dog is not corrected, the dog may develop the problem behavior as a habit (dogs are creatures of habit), or learn that the it can get away with the behavior when not immediately supervised. A dog that rarely gets away with anything will not learn that if nobody is around it can get away with bad behaviors. So people use crates to train there dogs to not chew and housebreaking plus the million other things people use them for. :)

[2kitties]

I've decided that while it is a plausible story, I believe it is fiction, or mostly fiction. So I will bow out of the discussion.

[lizbud]

Just wanted to include a link to the ABC story I read about
this event.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2003/10/031015dogbite.shtml

Also wanted to add that I don't think the pup was evil or
demented, just a very young pup. Ever get nipped on the toes
or fingers by those razor sharp teeth that puppies have? Lastly, I
don't think it was sensible to leave a pup that age unconfined
anywhere. I'm sure it was not potty trained & most likely not
fed properly. Even if the animal curled up & slept, it would very
likely make a huge mess in the bed. Bad idea.

[Cataholic]

Never liking to reveal my age...but, I grew up with crate trained doggies, and I am, gasp, 38 this year!

My thoughts? WOW. This, like most things in life, comes down to education. If I have to place blame, as lawyers like to do, I do place it with the 'adult' in the house.

Taking the facts as true, who in their right mind places a baby animal with a partially paralyzed child? My thoughts would be FIRST for the animals safety, as that is what I signed on for when I brought them into my home, and the LIKELIHOOD of injury is with the pup, rather than the child.

I am NOT saying I don't owe a responsibility to the child, obviously, that is not accurate. But, in this situation, I would have thought the risk laid with the puppy, not the boy.

But, to PTS the dog? Come on. However, in the age of PP (permissive parenting) that makes much more sense, I guess, then saying to little Johnny, "no, puppy needs to sleep in his crate, the floor, outside your room, etc.":rolleyes:

The whole thing reads like fiction. And to the person that said, "what do they gain by lying about it"? Lies are abound, all the time, everywhere, in the news, internet, and sadly, in our own lives.

[KYS]

posted by Cataholic:
Taking the facts as true, who in their right mind places a baby animal with a partially paralyzed child? My thoughts would be FIRST for the animals safety, as that is what I signed on for when I brought them into my home, and the LIKELIHOOD of injury is with the pup, rather than the child.>>>>>>.

I agree, THe puppy is to young to be left
un-supervised with a young child whether or not the child
was partially parayzed.

(lets hope the story is fiction)

P.S.
Given an entirely different scenero:
Even an adult dog can be harmed by a very young
child, and the dog may protect itself by using it's teeth.

Why take the chance?

[carole]

Thanks CamCam, that was very informative, I donot think this is practiced here in NZ, but I am not certain, as I don't know a lot of doggie owners.,but it is new to me.:)

[aly]

Ok, I haven't read all responses to this thread yet (haven't gotten past the first page actually) but come on! This puppy was not a monster. Examine the facts.

- Puppy taken away from mother 5 and a half weeks too early
- Child's hands smelled like dinner from the night before
- Puppy started chewing because the hand smelling like food was right there and puppy probably had no idea what it was doing

IRRESPONSIBLE mother lets puppy sleep with young child. A number of things could have happened.

Not to mention, why when he was 5 yrs old was he walking home alone???????????????????? Thats when he got hit by a truck!!!! GEEZ.

Bottom line: 100% blame on mother. The puppy should still be alive.

[Uabassoon]

Yes, the puppy is a finger chewing monster.

I'm not putting blame on anyone here, but I would hardly call this dog a monster. Almost every puppy or kitten I have ever met likes to nibble on fingers, Corkscrew still tries to bite my toes at night, but that doesn't make him a monster. The reason why Corkscrew stops biting me is because I pull my fingers or toes away and say "No" so he knows he has to stop. But I know if I just sat there and let him and my toes weren't moving he would continue to chew unless there was something to stop him, but I wouldn't say he was unwell or a monster. I'm assuming that if the mother was letting the puppy sleep with the child he hadn't shown signs of aggression. How is a young puppy supposed to know that what he was doing was wrong? The fingers smelled like dinner and they weren't moving and nothing was being done to tell him he was doing wrong. To him the fingers were no different then a dog bone or anything else that smells like food.

[aly]

Dogs can sense things .. since the hand was paralyzed, the pup might not have thought it was a real hand. Smelling like food didn't help matters either.

[aly]

This is Sebastian at 2 weeks (they supposedly got the puppy at 2 and a half weeks)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p7468b30c0a25824fe545b801ed6a4ff6/fb54b740.jpg

Sebastian and Piper at 5 weeks (the age of the puppy when the accident happened)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pdea7e35fd7afba9f120c5bff5431170a/fb23f5a1.jpg


They definately have teeth at 5 weeks, although I'm not sold on the fact that they could chew through 4 fingers. I guess its possible though, especially if they think they aren't human fingers, but a good dog treat. My own babies can never eat solid food on their own until 8 weeks though.

[CathyBogart]

I'm with KayAnn on this one. Crate training! :mad:

Idiots.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by aly
This is Sebastian at 2 weeks (they supposedly got the puppy at 2 and a half weeks)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p7468b30c0a25824fe545b801ed6a4ff6/fb54b740.jpg

Sebastian and Piper at 5 weeks (the age of the puppy when the accident happened)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pdea7e35fd7afba9f120c5bff5431170a/fb23f5a1.jpg


They definately have teeth at 5 weeks, although I'm not sold on the fact that they could chew through 4 fingers. I guess its possible though, especially if they think they aren't human fingers, but a good dog treat. My own babies can never eat solid food on their own until 8 weeks though.

I think that a child's bones are softer than an adult's. Also I know some breeders that feed a raw diet and they wean pups onto chicken necks and wings, so.....

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by CamCamPup33
A crate is a portable "kennel" that is just large enough to contain the dog it is intended for, made of either metal or plastic. "Crating" is the practice of using this kennel for training purposes, usually in housetraining and houseproofing a dog.
Crating is a controversial topic. There are those who believe that crate training is indefensible and others who believe that it is a panacea. The reality is likely somewhere in between. And, Dogs are by nature den creatures and the crate, properly introduced, is its den. It is a safe haven where it does not need to worry about defending territory. It is its own private bedroom which it absolutely will not soil if it can help it. Judicious use of the crate can alleviate a number of problems, stop others from ever developing, and aid substantially in housetraining. The major use of a crate is to prevent the dog from doing something wrong and not getting corrected for it. It is useless to correct a dog for something that it has already done; the dog must be "caught in the act". If the dog is out of its crate while unsupervised, it may do something wrong and not be corrected, or worse yet, corrected after the fact. If the dog is not corrected, the dog may develop the problem behavior as a habit (dogs are creatures of habit), or learn that the it can get away with the behavior when not immediately supervised. A dog that rarely gets away with anything will not learn that if nobody is around it can get away with bad behaviors. So people use crates to train there dogs to not chew and housebreaking plus the million other things people use them for. :)



Did you copy and paste this? If so you need to site an author and copyright information. It just doesn't sound like you wrote it is all.

[aly]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
I think that a child's bones are softer than an adult's. Also I know some breeders that feed a raw diet and they wean pups onto chicken necks and wings, so.....

I didn't say it was impossible. I stated I actually did think it was unlikely, but possible, so ............

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by aly
I didn't say it was impossible. I stated I actually did think it was unlikely, but possible, so ............

Yeah I know, I was just agreeing with you that I supposed it could be possible. :)

[aly]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
Yeah I know, I was just agreeing with you that I supposed it could be possible. :)

Ah :) Sorry, I am too quick to jump to conclusions!

[Soledad]

Anyone else not a huge fan of crate training? I remember my friend's mom telling me about it, and I did attempt it with Wylie a few times, but it just didn't seem right for me and Wylie. Am I alone? Everyone I know thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

[aly]

Crate training is a wonderful asset if done correctly. Maybe you didn't go about it the right way? It should be made a positive, wonderful experience for a dog. I crate train all of my foster puppies and dogs before they go to their new homes. I crate trained my own dogs for the first month or so after I got each of them, but there is no need for the crate anymore.

The benefits to crating are numerous. The method has saved NUMEROUS dogs from being turned into a kill shelter. I know this for a FACT because there are always people trying to give my shelter their dogs for reasons like destruction. When my shelter doesn't have space, the people say they are going to take their dog to the kill shelter. I always talk to them about crate training and do a follow-up call. I cannot tell you how many people have been so grateful that they are able to keep their wonderful dogs because they started using a crate. Crating also helps with housebreaking and adjusting to new environments. Its also nice to have a crate trained dog in case they ever have to be kenneled at the vet (like in emergency medical situations). Also, it makes travelling that much easier if the dog is used to a crate.

[Soledad]

The reason it didn't feel right for me and Wylie, is because Wylie was such a smart, considerate dog.

He learned all of his tricks on his first day at our house. He's never chewed anything of ours and he doesn't have accidents.

I think if I had had a less obedient and/or more hyper dog who wasn't a quick learner, crate training would have been appropriate, but with Wylie it seemed unnecessary.

He does have a kennel, and he is used to it. We just don't lock him up in it.

[Kfamr]

Simba is a very smart, considerate dog. He minds his business, he touches his things, leaves ours be. It's been like that since day one.

I couldn't imagine teaching Simba and Nala all of the tricks they know on the first day. That would be too stressful and boring for the dog.


We bought him a crate, which now Nala uses, the first day we got him. We didn't want to take the chances of getting into things that could harm him while we were gone. Not saying that he would, or he could -- We just took those extra percautions to take care of our baby, just in case.

Nala goes in her cage when we feed her in the morning & I have to go to school. I used to keep her in there at night, but she "graduated" to my bed. :p
Both of my dogs know the command "Go in your cage." We could tell them from the living room, to do so and they will. Simba even opens it.

Crate training or not, a 5 & a 1/2 week old puppy, being so young, I really don't think should be left unattended, especially with a young child, who is paralyzed at that.
It was totally irresponsible of the mother, and if I were her I would have been more afraid for the dogs safety than the child's. Although i'm I don't know this young child, most young boys or young children at that -- aren't too aware of "Hey, This puppy is alive. It feels, and it hurts. Be nice to it."

[lbaker]

Aly, in my previous answer to this thread I opined the idea that a pup that age would most likely wake up every several hours wanting to nurse (5 1/2 weeks?) Maybe being weaned but still needing to wake every several hours. That reason, among others, led me to believe there was something not right about the story. I ended my thread by saying "ask Aly". To me you are the authority here on new born/just getting their wings puppies. Thanks for re-affirming my thoughts. Love you. ;)

[Pam]

Originally posted by Soledad
He learned all of his tricks on his first day at our house.


:eek: :eek:

[Soledad]

Wylie is an amazing dog. Never had one like him, and I imagine I never will.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Pam
:eek: :eek:

Ditto. ALL of his tricks on the FIRST day? :eek:

I really don't think this story is true. But if it is, it's not the puppies fault. It is the irresponsible mothers. I agree with Kay, a young child should not be left alone with a puppy. For both of their sakes.

[aly]

Originally posted by Soledad
The reason it didn't feel right for me and Wylie, is because Wylie was such a smart, considerate dog.

He learned all of his tricks on his first day at our house. He's never chewed anything of ours and he doesn't have accidents.

I think if I had had a less obedient and/or more hyper dog who wasn't a quick learner, crate training would have been appropriate, but with Wylie it seemed unnecessary.

He does have a kennel, and he is used to it. We just don't lock him up in it.

When thats the case, then people usually don't crate train and thats perfectly fine. I'm a crate advocate for dogs who need it for behavioral reasons. My dogs are housebroken and not destructive so they are not crated anymore. I crated for the first month because Reece had seperation anxiety and would have busted through a window and Lolly I didn't trust alone with Shiloh at first.

[wolfsoul]

Alright, I have scoured the net and found several versions of this story.

In some stories, the puppy was given to them as a gift by the aunt THREE weeks before the incedent.

Apparently when he was hit by a truck, he was walking home with his older brother. This happened over a year ago, and the doctors said that he'd fully recover from the accident. So why is he paralyzed???

I've seen several spelling/grammar mistakes in most of the stories I read. It could be that this story was severely altered in it's legitimatcy. Or it could be like the Macdonalds story.

[curiosityrats]

I emailed snopes.com since I didn't find the story in their archives. I'm sure this is one they'd like to add whether it's true or not... (It seems a little "off" to me with the stereotyped breeds, young dog, and the whole scenario, but I dunno...)

I'll let you know when I hear back from them.

[Cataholic]

As to crate training...it isn't a punishment, rather, it is a tool. With Binx, I crated him for the first 3 days with me, until I had some time to see how he was, which happened on the Saturday and Sunday, 3 days after I got him. Binx doesn't 'need' to be crated. That is because of his breed, and prolly, his teeth. As a 4 month old puppy with teeth, I am sure I would have found his chewing a bit more destructive. Crating is a wonderful tool, when used right, as with most things.

Binx learned nothing his first day with me. Shoot, 6 months later, we are still working on some things....he he he...major things....

[curiosityrats]

I would like to adopt a retired racing greyhound someday. They are crate trained for racing, and adopters sorta "switch them" to house-training. Obviously my future dog will have his own crate and have to stay in it now and then while getting acclimated.

Training in itself is not cruel, but it can be abused. Any training or care method can be abused either deliberately or simply out of not knowing how to do it properly.

[Twisterdog]

Anyone else not a huge fan of crate training? I remember my friend's mom telling me about it, and I did attempt it with Wylie a few times, but it just didn't seem right for me and Wylie. Am I alone? Everyone I know thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

No, you're not alone. I know lots of people who don't think it's the greatest thing ever. I personally crate only if I absolutely have to. I have one dog that is crated whenever we leave the house, because he picks fights and then get the worst of them when he is alone with the other dogs. But, I work at home, so he is crated for an hour or two once in a while, at the most. And I have two dogs that are crated at night, for potty issues. That's it, out of ten dogs.

I think crate training, like most things in the world, started out as a good idea and have ended up being used incorrectly and abused. There are many dogs who would have been euthanized long ago it it weren't for crate training. So thank goodness it exists for dogs like that.

However, a huge number of people use a crate for their dogs like they use the television for their kids - they are too busy or lazy to deal with them, so they plop them in the crate or in front of the TV. Sad. I am also opposed to crating a dog for ten hours per day, every day, while the owners are at work. Then the dog often goes back in the crate to sleep for eight hours at night. And sometimes back in the crate while the owners go out to dinner or to the movies. So, at least eighteen hours out of twenty four in a crate ... what kind of life is that?

If one doesn't have any time to spend with a dog, perhaps one shouldn't own a dog at all, instead of owning a dog that lives in cage almost all day and night.

Just MHO.

[Twisterdog]

They are crate trained for racing

That's putting it mildly, to say the least.

Racing greyhounds are kept in small wire cages all the time, except when they are actually running on the track. They are not housebroken or crate trained in any way, shape or form. They live their entire lives in a little wire box, except when they are running, which is maybe an hour or two per day. They eat, sleep and go to the bathroom in this cage.

I used to foster greyhounds for a rescue in Colorado. Almost every dog that came from the track had the imprints of the wire squares of the cage permanently scarred into its body in places, from laying on the wire for years.

Racing greyhounds don't know how to anything before they go to foster homes. They don't know how to go up and down stairs, how to walk on slick foors, how to choose when and what to eat on their own, how to go outside to the bathroom. They don't know what dirt or grass is, they've likely never seen a child or even woman before, sometimes. They don't know what birds are, or what furniture is. Vacuums, telephones and televisions can completely terrify them. Every move these dogs have ever made in their lives has been dictated to them. It's incredibly sad. And incredibly wonderful to watch one do somethig on its own for the first time.

I just wanted to elaborate, because the way these poor dogs live is a far cry from crate training.

[curiosityrats]

Yes, I know.

http://www.greyhounds.org

It'll make any animal person cry, scream, or both... Still animals like that need their crate (a nicer one than at the track obviously!) while they adjust to the life of a pet... My heart really goes out to those poor things. (Nevertheless, a crate can provide a sense of comfort/security to some dogs--if it is used PROPERLY.)

[carole]

OMG this is just awful, I never knew this is how the greyhound racing dog was treated, I am apalled, this is absolute cruelty in MO, cannot something be done to stop them living this way?

Really disgusting, and incredibly sad.:mad: :mad:

[Soledad]

Twisterdog,

I've seen a lot of abuse of crate training. The idea that you would get a dog, only to put it into a crate for nine to ten hours during the day and to again put the dog in their for eight hours a night is just repellent to me. Why bother getting a dog in the first place? That's no life at all as far as I'm concerned.

I certainly see how it can be a good thing, but my initial impressions of it were not excellent. It's easily abused by lazy dog parents.

[CathyBogart]

Star and Wilbur are crate trained, and it's been such a wonderful thing...When Star started getting such bad separation anxiety, my mom actually thought about re-homing her (after she ate $900 of brand new blinds and ripped up a $1100 door). Then we discovered the crate!

Wilbur is, we have decided, almost not housebreak-able at all, but with the crate we don't have to worry.

I would not have either of my dogs without the crate. Also, neither of them is in it for more than five hours a day. I loooove the crate!!:D

[micki76]

When Chester was a puppy we used the crate for several hours a day, with a break when I came home for lunch. We used it in a different way than most people do, though. We purchased the largest crate available and then we took the door off of it. We pushed the opening up against the door that the pet door is in and he had a potty available, as well as exercise and a way back in the house to safety, air-conditioning and his bed. It worked out great for him and us (before that he had chewed some carpet by the front door :eek: ). We only used it for about 6 months, then my husband was laid off and so he was home with Chester a lot. He gradually starting leaving him free and loose in the house when he went on trips to the store, etc. Well, Chester caught on quick and in about 2 weeks we were done with the crate.

[curiosityrats]

Any new puppy or kitten we got spent nights and times we were away closed in our bathroom. That is sorta like a crate I guess... We never thought of it as "training" just making sure we knew where the little things were and protecting them from all our grown (and generally pretty nasty) cats. It was our way of gradual introduction to the house and the other pets.

We son't actually own a crate or anything. The only animals that are in cages are my rats (and even they get several hours to romp around the room every day).

[curiosityrats]

I just realized what was bothering me so much about this story! You know, what made me question it.


The accident left him partially paralyzed on his left side, said his mother, Shawn Dewberry.

Asked by reporters if he felt any pain or was scared when he woke up Monday morning, he said no.

...

He will still be able to play video games, one of his passions. Dontavius, a student at Potter Elementary, enjoys playing his Nintendo video game. He was playing at the hospital.

``I'll be OK. I can still play video games with one hand,'' he said.

These ideas just don't follow! It says he was "partially paralysed" but it also says he felt nothing at all in that hand. It didn't hurt. He couldn't even feel it enough to wake up when the puppy was chewing through bone. To me, that says his hand must have been really "dead" and I could believe that.

However, if this WAS the case, would it make a lot of difference whether that dead hand had fingers or not? Are we to believe this will affect his video game playing or anything else? A hand with no nerve function can't be used for playing video games with or without fingers... A hand with partial nerve function is VERY difficult for the job (I know because I suffered some injuries that left a couple fingers tingly, and they make it awkward to do many things). Even so, if he had partial nerve function, he would have felt SOMETHING.

I should hope he could play video games one-handed because that would be the way he'd HAVE to have played them since the accident... Unless we are to believe his hand is completely numb to all sensation but he still has full function of its movements, enough to do a lot of fast and accurate button mashing and everything.

So how does this fit together exactly?? I wonder if maybe the story was verging on true, but someone threw in the video game thing as an "extra" to make it feel even more awful (this poor boy has been deprived of things he enjoys! As opposed to, the dog mutilated a dead and useless appendage...)


Oh, and he was "playing at the hospital"... Loss of blood and everything. Yeah right. My sister couldn't even watch TV for over a week after her car accident--she couldn't eat much either and barely managed to talk to people, and her injuries were no where as severe as losing several FINGERS.

(Sorry to bring up an older thread here, but there was something about this story that just didn't fit, and I couldn't figure out what until now. Heck of an implausible story if it's true! Still waiting to hear from the Snopes.com people.)