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Soledad
10-09-2003, 06:32 PM
Steve Chapman
Bill, Arnold and double standards


Published October 9, 2003


The California recall campaign was a noisy, raucous and often vitriolic affair. But the most striking feature of the final days was the silence. That was what you heard from conservatives on the subject of Arnold Schwarzenegger's sexual escapades.

Here was a guy who, voters learned, told a skin magazine in 1977 that he had a stripper girlfriend, hung out with prostitutes and engaged in group sex. Then last week, The Los Angeles Times reported that six women said he had forced himself on them, grabbing breasts and bottoms and trying to pull off clothing.

The charges clearly had at least some truth. Schwarzenegger didn't admit anything specific, but he didn't exactly proclaim his innocence, either. "Wherever there is smoke, there is fire," he said. "I have behaved badly sometimes." Other women came forward with similar accounts.

When Schwarzenegger insisted that "a lot of these are made-up stories," NBC anchor Tom Brokaw asked him, "So you deny all these stories about grabbing?" Replied Arnold: "No, not all." But he declined to tell which ones were true. Asked by Brokaw to be more specific about his actions, he replied, "As soon as the campaign is over, I will." What's your hurry, Tom?

At best, the evidence indicates that Schwarzenegger has a habit of sexual battery--defined in the California Penal Code as touching "an intimate part of another person, if the touching is against the will of the person touched, and is for the specific purpose of sexual arousal, sexual gratification, or sexual abuse."

This goes beyond the behavior that unleashed a scandal on Bill Clinton. His encounter with Monica Lewinsky was consensual, and his crude alleged proposition to Paula Jones stopped short of using force. Kathleen Willey said Clinton forcibly kissed and fondled her, though he relented when she rebuffed him. (It was not until after he was acquitted in his impeachment trial that another woman went public claiming he had raped her, and that was never proven.)

Clinton's adulterous conduct was enough to outrage conservative moralists. Columnist and former Reagan administration official Linda Chavez said that the actions described by Paula Jones didn't amount to sexual harassment but were "gross and disgusting, and, I think, make Clinton unfit to be president." The Wall Street Journal's shocked editorial writers asked, "What manner of man is it who takes sexual advantage of 21-year-old interns?"

David Frum, writing in the conservative Weekly Standard, asserted that "what's at stake in the Lewinsky scandal" is "the central dogma of the Baby Boomers: the belief that sex, so long as it's consensual, ought never to be subject to moral scrutiny at all." William Bennett, author of several books celebrating old-fashioned values, said Clinton "acted sexually more like an alley cat than an adult."

Maybe the defenders of virtue exhausted themselves so thoroughly attacking Clinton that they have no energy left to find fault with Schwarzenegger. In any event, I have yet to hear a peep of disgust from the major moralists of the right.

The Wall Street Journal admitted in passing that Schwarzenegger's alleged behavior was "crude and insulting"-- which sounds like a great understatement--while crowing that "his candor will strike voters as a welcome contrast to the usual political stonewalling or denials." But his "candor" was of the sort that is now universally known by the term "Clintonesque"--making a vague admission to defuse the issue while denying anything truly incriminating.

David Frum, in his regular column for National Review Online, didn't denounce Baby Boomer morality, but simply ignored the whole unpleasant business. Bill Bennett, the go-to guy on matters of morality, was missing in action. The cat got Linda Chavez's tongue.

So consider their double standard. When Clinton submitted to oral sex with Monica Lewinsky, conservatives thought it was morally repugnant. They also thought it disqualified him from remaining in office. As a Wall Street Journal editorial declared, "A business executive or college president caught having sex with an intern less than half his age would today be quickly dismissed."

Yet they're happy to have as governor of California someone who, by his own admission, has forced himself on unwilling women. Their new darling is a more aggressive sexual predator than the president they tried to remove from office. Morality? Law? They'll leave it to liberals to fret about such irrelevancies.

But if the charges persist and multiply, I predict conservatives will find a way to address Arnold's behavior: They'll blame it on Clinton.

RICHARD
10-09-2003, 07:04 PM
LOLOLOLOL...

do not speak to my mom anymore........she turned to me and told me.

Watch this ...They'll blame it on Clinton!!!!

Anytime a man (used loosely, of course.)paws a gal who doesn't like the advances-he should be smacked good!

Monica Lewinsky had a 'consenual' liason with the Billster.....

My point is that women lose credibility by waiting such a long time to tell ANYONE....

I hope all the BS from the past-dimissals, blacklisting and even blackmail aren't as prevalent as they were before.....


but I do want to know what kind of car uses a 'sexual battery'....
:rolleyes:

Soledad
10-09-2003, 07:06 PM
How bout an Mini Cooper? The official car of sex fiends and secret agents alike?:p ;)

slick
10-09-2003, 07:11 PM
And you guys in CA voted for this guy :confused: :confused:

The only scandel we can come up with is our BC Premier was vacationing in Hawaii and got pulled over for DUI.

At least that's all I know about. Who knows what else goes on behind the walls of the Parliament Buildings.....not to mention City Hall.

Pam
10-09-2003, 07:23 PM
Well I guess we will have to wait and see with Ahnold. I think what was most repugnant to me about Clinton is that he was engaged in his "activities" during a time when he was being paid by us to be "on the job" and was fooling around inside a house also being paid for by us. Imagine one's own boss carrying on like that during business hours in a back room with an employee. GAG! Hopefully Ahnold has learned from his past "indiscretions." Sadly, Bill didn't. I have a feeling, though, that probably 'once a groper, always a groper.' Time will tell. :rolleyes:

Soledad
10-09-2003, 07:26 PM
Atleast what Bill did was consensual. What's better about Arnold being paid MILLIONS to pin 51 year old women against refrigerators and talk to them about their breasts???:confused: :eek: :confused:

RICHARD
10-09-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by slick


The only scandel we can come up with is our BC Premier was vacationing in Hawaii and got pulled over for DUI.


what a wuss!!!!

we like our scandals big and, and scandalous!!!!


MINI COOPER!!!!


i like it....


I can see it know......

Your breasts.......Ah they mareenating in there??


sorry, i just can't help myself....

Soledad
10-09-2003, 07:34 PM
With all his money, he could get the mini custom made to have hand shaped seats for all his lovely non-Maria Shriver honies. Of course, if these allegations are anything to go by, perhaps he should add a "go-go gadget arm" to force them in, just in case they decide to get "unplayful.":p

Miss Meow
10-09-2003, 07:48 PM
I remember rumours years ago that Arnold used to ask women to 'polish his helmet' (his words, not mine :eek: )

If he has been harassing women in the past, why are they all lining up to tell their stories now, rather than when he was just an actor? Are actors allowed to be sleazebags as part of their occupation, and politicians are supposed to be above all this?

Soledad
10-09-2003, 07:53 PM
Well, I think that right-wing tools like Ken Starr HAVE made sex an issue for politicians. But what Arnold's accused of isn't about sex as much as it is sexual harrassment/battery.

At any rate, my suspicion is that some of these women were dead scared of badmouthing/reporting Arnold. That's how Hollywood works. When you get paid crap for working in such a dynamic, interesting field, you cannot afford to speak ill of the "talent."

Miss Meow
10-09-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
Well, I think that right-wing tools like Ken Starr HAVE made sex an issue for politicians. But what Arnold's accused of isn't about sex as much as it is sexual harrassment/battery.

At any rate, my suspicion is that some of these women were dead scared of badmouthing/reporting Arnold. That's how Hollywood works. When you get paid crap for working in such a dynamic, interesting field, you cannot afford to speak ill of the "talent."

Yeah, you're right. I now remember some of the complainants wanting to remain anonymous as it would compromise their careers.

popcornbird
10-09-2003, 09:50 PM
EWWWWWWWW!!!!!!! I knew nothing of this guy other than that he's an actor, and I would never vote for an actor as a political leader. :( I don't think actors are right for the job. Sorry just my opinion. I was unsure of how I felt on this before, but now I'm totally switched off. *sniff* I still can't understand why they got rid of Grey Davis! What was wrong with him? I don't get why they blamed the economy problem on him. I don't think its him. I think its our prez, because the entire nation's economy has been going down after Clinton's time, not just CA. Its just showing more in CA because of what a *job-filled* state CA was..............but the whole US economy is down, and its been down since Clinton left, so its definitely a problem with the main government, not with a *State's government*. Just my opinion.

Thanks a lot Soledad. You just made me sad. :( And disgusted..............

Evil Californians who voted for him! Evil! :p :D:D

Just kidding. :p ;)

babolaypo65
10-10-2003, 10:08 AM
I'm with you Pop. Im a liberal democrat. No surprise. But my dislike for arnie has nothing to do with him being republican. I disliked Clinton. What I do when faced with the apparent misbehavoir, or illegal actions of a politician of the other party is ask myself what I would do if my favorite democrat did this. Would I still like them? Would this change how I feel about that person? If my answer is no for my favorite democrat (or another democrat I hold in high esteem), then that helps me to decide how I feel about the person, and helps be be more sure that it isn't just based on his political party. I try to avoid the double standard.
So, for example, if I found out that...say... Carter had done this, would it change how I view him...

RICHARD
10-10-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Miss Meow
I remember rumours years ago that Arnold used to ask women to 'polish his helmet' (his words, not mine :eek: )



This probably happened when he worked in construction...I wouldn't put a 'dirty' helmet on MY head.....



Well, I think that right-wing tools like Ken Starr HAVE made sex an issue for politicians.

I laugh when I think about sex and politicians....I mean, Orrin Hatch, The Tedster and Rummy- IN THE NUDE?????

Doctor, when will my sight return???

Soledad,

Will the GO GO Gadget arm use a 'sexual battery'?

Babo,

I find the fact that you would abandon Carter If it was ever revealed he was a deviant as very unsettling..

How could you turn you back on Peanuts and Billy Beer??????

Commie!;)