When to alter?

[wolfsoul]

At what age do you prefer a dog to be altered?

I've been researching alot about this. I'm leaning towards getting him (my future pup :) ) neutered early.

I've already called some vets around the area, and the one vet that seems to be wonderful and that I'm sure to settle on neuters pups at atleast 8 weeks as long as the testicles are distended.

I've read that since vets have been spaying and neutering before 6 months like they usually did before, there has been a decrease in the amount of cancer victim dogs.

Also, the testostrone closes the growth plates, and if you neuter early, the plates will stay open longer and your pup will become longer in the legs. And I love tall dogs.


But what I'm worried about is putting a puppy through anesthesia. What are the chances of problems arising from this? Should I wait the average 6 months, or go ahead and neuter as soon as the testicles are distended? (usually can be as early as two months) What did you do?

Thanks in advance! :)

[GoldenRetrLuver]

My vet doesn't recommend getting dogs spayed/neutered until they reach about 6 months of age. I personally, think 8 weeks old is way to young to put a pup through anesthesia and get him altered. Daisy was spayed at 6 and a half months, and Molly was spayed at 6 months. Both good ages to do it because they didn't reach their first heat cycle.

Good Luck deciding! I think waiting until 6 months would be best. :)

[Kfamr]

I'm not sure. Nala was 'altered' before we got her, which was at 8 weeks old. The Humane Society did it.

[KYS]

I had this discussion with my Vet when it came
to neutering Rocky.
My vet also does not recommend spay/neuter till
the age of 6 months of age (before 1st heat.)
He feels their is not enough long term evidence
on the effects of early spay/neutering.

He does make an exception to early spay/neuter
for shelter animals before they are adopted out.

Rocky is 4 years old now, so maybe his opinion has changed. :confused:

[wolf_Q]

Nebo was neutered at 4 months. I, personally, think that's a good age to have it done. I think it's better before they hit kinda "doggy puberty" lol at around 6 months.

[wolfsoul]

Thanks for your input. :) I'm still not sure though...I also read that the earlier you do it, the faster it heals and the less chance of infection. It's just the anesthesia aspect of it that bothers me lol. People avoid putting an adult dog under; what would it do to a puppy?

Also, I read that you don't even need to put a dog under to neuter. I defintaly want to put him under, because it will be a painful procedure..but is laser neutering painful? I'm assuming it is, I'm just not sure lol. :o I read that laser neutering is safer than using a scalpel (sp?).

Hehe, I'm not even gettign the pup for another couple years. I just can't wait! I'm doing all the research possible!

[Shelteez2]

There's a lot of controversy on the subject of early sapying and neutering. Personally I think the only reason to do it really early is in the case of a puppy being adopted out from somewhere. It's really hard to check up on every single pup a spca or rescue has placed and the only way to be sure that it was done is for it to be done before the pup leaves the shelter.
Many reports say that the young pups bounce back from anesthetic much faster than older pups.

I tend to go with the school of thought that dogs need their hormones to properly develop. So this would mean letting a female dog go through her first heat, and letting a male dog fully mature. (I would say around 9 months depending on the breed).
While it may be true that early nuetering leads to slower closing of the growth plates thus resulting in a "taller" dog, I question how healthy that is. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor of whether to alter early or not.

Oh one other thing. A reason many vets suggest spaying before the first heat is that many pet owners don't realize how carefully a female in heat has to be watched over. They don't think their perfectly obedient dog will stray, but the desire to reproduce at that time is so strong that many dogs will go over under or through a fence to get out. So that would mean the dog would have to be kept on leash every single time it went out for a month. Many owners don't want to go to that trouble so they alter before the first heat.

In the end it comes down to what you and your vet are most comfortable with.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Actually, vets recommend spaying/neutering before 6 months because for females, it reduces the risks highly of cancers. Same thing goes for males. :) If you let the female go through her first heat, she has a higher risk of developing mammory cancer, etc...

JMHO.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
Actually, vets recommend spaying/neutering before 6 months because for females, it reduces the risks highly of cancers. Same thing goes for males. :) If you let the female go through her first heat, she has a higher risk of developing mammory cancer, etc...

JMHO.

Well in studies I've read it states that spaying before the first heat gives you something like a 98% chance of the dog not getting mammory cancer and after the first heat it drops to like 97% or 96%. The risk increases with each heat that the dog has.
I'll try and find actuall stats to back that up.

Also, for responsible people out there who breed their dogs (after health clearances and necessary titles and such) I don't think they'd do it if their dogs were always getting cancer. I know several breeders and their dogs are fine. After having a few litters they are retired and spayed, usually around the ages of 5-7. They go on to live long health lives.

[Twisterdog]

There have been many studies done by veterinarians, veterinarian colleges, shelters, etc. that show there are no adverse effects to early alteration. Putting an 8 week old puppy under anesthetic is no different than putting an 8 month old puppy under anesthetic. There is nothing about the youth of the dog that makes anesthetic worse for its body. There are also many studies that have shown there is no difference in adult size, height, weight, coat, etc. between a dog altered before or after sexual maturity.

In a perfect world, you could alter your dog whenever you felt like it, because in a perfect world, accidents would never happen. But, we all know this is not the case. Some dogs come into heat earlier than others. One female may come into heat at seven months, and another at five months. Also, some dogs have what is called "silent heat", especially their first heat. This is heat with not outward noticable symptoms, i.e., bleeding, swelling, etc. So, trying to judge when to alter or when to be "extra careful" based on first heat is a crap shoot at best. Also, in a perfect world, dogs never jump over fences, dig under fences, slip their collars on walks, jump out of window screens, sneak out of open doors when the pizza guy comes, etc. But, we all know this happens, to even the best dog owners. If you have an unaltered, six month old dog that does this, you could quite possibly be looking at a litter of puppies. And what the world does not need is more puppies, when thousands of dogs die at shelters every day.

My opinion is, there is no medical or cosmetic reason not to alter puppies at a young age. Progressive veterinarians and shelters have been doing this for decades, with tens of thousands of dogs, and no ill-effects have ever been proven. The reasons to alter early, namely less dogs in an already far too overcrowded doggie world, make early alteration the smartest and most human solution.

[Twisterdog]

most human solution

Oops, I meant humanE solution. :D

[wolfsoul]

Thanks for that, Twisterdog. :) If there are no adverse affects, then why not?

Opinions are still open though. It's nice to hear what people think on a subject. :)

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
Well in studies I've read it states that spaying before the first heat gives you something like a 98% chance of the dog not getting mammory cancer and after the first heat it drops to like 97% or 96%. The risk increases with each heat that the dog has.
I'll try and find actuall stats to back that up.

That's what I basically said. So, wouldn't you want to spay them BEFORE they go into their first heat cycle?


Originally posted by Shelteez2 Also, for responsible people out there who breed their dogs (after health clearances and necessary titles and such) I don't think they'd do it if their dogs were always getting cancer. I know several breeders and their dogs are fine. After having a few litters they are retired and spayed, usually around the ages of 5-7. They go on to live long health lives. [/B]

That's why there called "responsible breeders". They get the dog and dame all checked out before they breed them. Yes, it is true that dogs can go on to live perfectly, normal lives if they are spayed later in life, but there is always the chance they could develop cancer. Even if they don't, I just think it's best to get them spayed/neutered before they reach 6-7 months, and before the first heat cycle.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
That's what I basically said. So, wouldn't you want to spay them BEFORE they go into their first heat cycle?



That's why there called "responsible breeders". They get the dog and dame all checked out before they breed them. Yes, it is true that dogs can go on to live perfectly, normal lives if they are spayed later in life, but there is always the chance they could develop cancer. Even if they don't, I just think it's best to get them spayed/neutered before they reach 6-7 months, and before the first heat cycle.

What I was trying to point out was that the risk doesn't increase dramatically if you let the dog go through one heat cycle first, and that I personally believe that it is better for a dog not to get rid of it's hormones too quickly. That is why I myself would wait one heat cycle.

On the other hand I do agree with Twisterdog in that it is not a perfect world and there are very few pet owners out there that would be able to fully handle a dog in heat.

So there you are a complete circle in beliefs.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Well, you have your opinions and I have mine. :)

[ParNone]

My vet would not alter Oz until he was at least 6 months old.
His reasoning being that those hormones are needed for
proper bone development. I also frequent several agility lists
and they have many discussions about not altering your pet
until the growth plates have closed for the same reasoning.
Logically speaking it does make sense to me. So before I
have my next dog fixed, I will be doing more research and talking
more throughly with my vet about it and if I feel like it's more
beneficial for the dog, to wait until a year or year and half before
fixing, then I will.

Par...

[Dawn]

I think it depends alot on what breed, and size of the dog as well. I had a female retriever mix that went into her first heat at 4 1/2 months - she grew to be 110 pounds. (not sure what she was mixed with)
Tyr was altered at 5 months and probably should have been altered a little earlier. He started humping the living room pillows and my leg and other dogs at 4 months old. He started showing early signs of male aggression and it was suggested by his vet and his trainer to cut out all that testosterone. It worked! No more humping (well there are a few moments with large males that he feels he has to prove himself) And he doesn't have an agressive bone in his body!
With large breed males that are prone to male agression and/or wandering (huskies, wolf-hybrids, pits, Akitas.etc.) I say the earlier the better!!!
It will decrease the chances of aggression and the desire to wander.

[Samantha Puppy]

My vet told me that so long as the puppy is altered before their first heat, the risk for cancer is much lower. Samantha was born sometime around late June or July 2002 and I had her spayed in January 2003. She did absolutely fine through the anesthesia and when Josh and I went to pick her up that evening, she bounded to us like nothing happened. She didn't get spacey until we gave her a pain pill when we got her home. Poor thing would be walking and just stop and start staring...

I took the following day off so that I could help her get around, but that little skank jumped up on my bed and started racing around the house! The vet said to keep her quiet and subdued for at least 10 days -- HA!!! I couldn't even do it for one!! :)

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Dawn
With large breed males that are prone to male agression and/or wandering (huskies, wolf-hybrids, pits, Akitas.etc.) I say the earlier the better!!!

That was another of my reasonings. :) I'm getting a very dominant and aggressive breed -- the catahoula leopard dog. :D

[Dawn]

the catahoula leopard dog

Sorry, I don't really know much about the breed, but if you've read they are dominant and aggressive, and you are considering getting a male-I stick with " the earlier the better!"

[tomkatzid]

Lucee is in heat and has been since the day Tom found her. We have an appt for the 10th to get her spayed. If the swelling goes away. If it were proven that is better for them to go through a heat I'd do it later, if not I would not want to do through this again. I feel sorry for her, with her tummy all puffed up, and she had to wear the little pants and a pad. I also don't want to do it too soon after the heat, the vet said there is much more blood to deal with and it's more dangerous.

Nina has short legs and once a lady told us it was because she was spayed too early. She came from a shelter as a pup and was spayed at 6 or 8 wks. The owners took her back at 6 mth, which is when we got her. We don't know about Ashlee's spay. Only that it was before she was turned in to the shelter at 11 mths. Kelcee was spayed at 6 mths although I got her as a baby from the shelter. Way back then they gave you a coupon to get them fixed at a vet of your choice when it was time. Now it's done at that shelter before they are adopted. I really don't think it's because it's good for the pet, just because it stoped unwanted animals from being turned in to them, the over population thing again.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Dawn
the catahoula leopard dog

Sorry, I don't really know much about the breed, but if you've read they are dominant and aggressive, and you are considering getting a male-I stick with " the earlier the better!"
Well, they are the largest and generally most aggressive of the cattle breeds. :) They are bred to handle wild cattle and hogs, and they hunt animals, inluding bears.

So I bet it would be better to neuter him before all that kicks in lol. I won't be using him for herding or hunting, but rather agility, obedience, and hopefully doggy diving. They always need something to do. ;)

And yup, I do plan on getting a male. :)

[carrie]

As "oldies" will know I don't read other peoples answers to a post before I answer so if I offend, step on toes, disagree or say the same as anyone else it is not intended.

It is essential, in my view , that as many dogs as possible are neuterd ( be that castrating males or spaying females).

It is also essential that some care is taken in respect of the timing of such a drastic op.

The hormones that are involved with sexual organs are incredibly complex and determine a great deal of the adult dogs behaviour - I could go on for pages and pages with the scientific and biological reasons why the hormones are there, what they do and the links to the behaviour in adult animals.

To castrate a puppy at eight weeks is an appalling thought! Please, please, do not entertain this idea. Any vet offering this service is only there to make money fron you and certainly does not have the dogs best interests at heart.

I have to confess I am totally shocked by this -do not do it. If you do go ahead you can never call yourself a dog owner as the creature you will look after will not be a dog!

I really don't mean to upset people but this is a major issue if it it offered to just one dog owner - has anyone else been given this option?

[wolfsoul]

I'm going to call my vet right now and ask him about this.

Every site I read about the hormones says that the hormones cause cancer, and I don't want that.


has anyone else been given this option?
My friend's dog was neutered at 9 weeks. :)

[wolfsoul]

Unfortunatly I was only able to speak to four vets. This is what I found out:

2 of the vets neutered young, the other two didn't.
2 of the vets said that the hormones aren't needed.
1 of the vets said that they are needed for mental maturity.
And 1 of the vets said that a dog shouldn't be neutered until atleast 4 months because that is usually when the baby teeth fall out and a vet will pull out any baby teeth during the anesthesia for cheap.

I'm still doing my research, but there is still no adverse affects.


My vet would not alter Oz until he was at least 6 months old.
His reasoning being that those hormones are needed for
proper bone development. I also frequent several agility lists
and they have many discussions about not altering your pet
until the growth plates have closed for the same reasoning.
Logically speaking it does make sense to me. So before I
have my next dog fixed, I will be doing more research and talking
more throughly with my vet about it and if I feel like it's more
beneficial for the dog, to wait until a year or year and half before
fixing, then I will.
But some dogs' growth plates don't finish closing until 4 years old. I wouldn't think it right to wait that long...

[wolfsoul]

What age is best for preventive castration?

A number of studies have shown that castration is just as effective at reducing male associated behavior problems as it is at preventing them. This means that whether the pet is castrated post-pubertally (e.g. 1 year or older) or pre-pubertally (e.g. 2 months of age) the behavioral effects are likely to be the same. There is, however, anecdotal evidence that dogs that are sexually experienced are more likely to retain their sexual habits after castration, compared to those dogs that have had little or no sexual experience prior to castration. Recently it has been advocated that castration be performed at as young an age as is practical, to ensure that it is done before the pet has a chance to breed. This is most important in animal shelters since it allows them to ensure that every dog adopted has already been castrated. To date, studies have shown that castration is safe, and has no long term effects on health or behavior, regardless of the age that it is performed. Many shelters and some veterinary clinics begin neutering as young as 2 months of age. They report that the surgery is often shorter and that recovery is quicker and with less post-operative discomfort for these younger animals. Once dogs are adopted into their new homes, most veterinarians recommend waiting until all vaccinations are complete before admitting the pet into the hospital for surgery. However, if general anesthesia is needed prior to the vaccinations being completed for any other reason (e.g. suturing a cut, removing quills) this would be an excellent time to consider castration. In summary, there seems to be no behavioral or medical benefit to waiting until a dog is "mature" to perform a castration.

Taken from: http://www.pethealthcare.net/html/body_neutering.html

[Twisterdog]

I'm getting a very dominant and aggressive breed -- the catahoula leopard dog.

We had one at out shelter here a while ago. How it got to Wyoming, I'll never know. Nice dog.




To castrate a puppy at eight weeks is an appalling thought! Please, please, do not entertain this idea. Any vet offering this service is only there to make money fron you and certainly does not have the dogs best interests at heart. I have to confess I am totally shocked by this -do not do it. If you do go ahead you can never call yourself a dog owner as the creature you will look after will not be a dog!

I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. How is a vet making more money altering a dog at eight weeks than at eight months? The price is the same. And please explain this "creature you will look after will not be a dog" nonsense. That has got to be one of the most ignorant, absurd things I've heard in a long, long time. So, what will this "creature" be, pray tell? A cat? A monkey? A fish? What a ridiculous thing to say.





Nina has short legs and once a lady told us it was because she was spayed too early.

It has never been proven that adult size has anything to do with age of alteration. Studies done over decades on thousands and thousands of animals have shown no consistent difference is adult size.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
We had one at out shelter here a while ago. How it got to Wyoming, I'll never know. Nice dog.


It has never been proven that adult size has anything to do with age of alteration. Studies done over decades on thousands and thousands of animals have shown no consistent difference is adult size.
Aren't they? I LOVE catahoulas! :)

I read about a study they took on dogs, and they neutered some dogs at 8 weeks, some at 6 months, and some not at all. By a year, the ones neutered first were the largest, the ones neutered second were second largest, and the unaltered ones were the shortest. :) Although, after a year, I'm not sure. :)