poor appetite

[evelyn1157]

my female shih tzu is 7 months old now. her appetite has been poor these past 2 months. i fed her eukanuba's chicken flavoured kibbles previously and tried switching to lamb and rice which she ate for a few days. but then she got tired of it so soon. she would go the whole day without eating her food. i have tried soaking her food in hot water and milk but to no avail. but she loves her eukanuba dog treats. what should i do? :(

[evelyn1157]

she has most of her new teeth now. her old ones started dropping about 3 months ago

[MichelleN]

My babies are Labradors and they eat ANYTHING! Sorry I can't help but I do know when I swopped their dog food, the vet said I should mix the old food with the new for a few days to make the change more gradual.

Hope someone has had this and can offer advice.

[jennifert]

Do you leave her food out for her all day or just put it down at mealtimes? I've read and heard that you should put their food down at meal times for no more than 15 minutes. If they don't eat, they don't eat! I used to have a dog(ironically, also a shih-tzu) that we left the food down all day for and he wouldn't touch it! ( I think my Mom was slipping him too much people food! Could that be the situation in your home?) BUT, when we went to bed at night, he would sneak out to the kitchen and you could hear him eating. We called him the "closet eater." Have you tried feeding her from your hand? Maybe if you tried no treats for a few days...I'm not too sure myself but I'm sure there are others on this board who will have a better answer. If she's been a poor eater for two months, what is her behavior like otherwise? Is she losing/not gaining weight? Any diarrhea? Does she sleep more than normal for a pup her size? Maybe reactions to her shots? Any changes in your lifestyle or other pets that may have her stressed? OK enough questions...I'll check back for an update... :)

[slleipnir]

MichelleN: I have a Lab too! I used to think she was always hungry but i guess its just the breed..she'll probably eat till she explosed! (my dog)

A lady told me once that she left her lab home once and came home to find it on its side with a huge belly and the dog food spilt all over the floor..a guess it litterally ate till it couldn't eat anymore

[carrie]

Shih-tzu's are the breed that I have more food problems with than any other!

First you need to check her dentition with the vet. It is very easy to put this down as a behaviour problem when there is really an underlying dental or oral problem.

If that is all clear, and even if it isn't, it really isn't a good idea to leave food down all day.
It is an instant code for the dog to believe that it is the highest status animal in the household. Add to this the fact that she can manipulate your behaviour in how she reacts to her food and the fact that she is a very smart dog and you have....disaster!

If the vet checks out fine I strongly suggest that you remove the food bowl from the floor.
Work out a normal weight per day that you would expect the dog to need. ( I use a washed out can to measure feed rather than by weight so what ever works for you.)
Then set up a ritual and don't deviate from it.
Toilet the dog and have a short play. Get the dog to sit while you measure out a VERY small part of the daily ration - if it works out as only ten pieces of food, so be it, it will be fine - next to the dog food get a very small something for yourself to eat (most of my clients find two or three cornflakes the easiest) and eat them. Ignore the dog during this process, even if she moves away. Don't look at her or speak to her. When you have totally finished eating whatever you have chosen turn back to the dog with the bowl in your hand. If she has broken the sit call her back and get her to sit again. Put her food down, still without a word, and walk away. After fifteen minutes you MUST pick the bowl up even if she has followed you rather than eat. During this time you continue to ignore her - not looking and not talking to her.
You then pay her no attention, not a look, touch or word until she has gone away from you and lain down for at least five minutes.

Then, and only then, call her to you, get her to sit, praise her, and then carry on as normal.

You are taking the issue out of food - there is nothing to be gained in any way from eating or not eating - it doesn't make any difference to you - so when she does eat you react in the exact same way - 15 minutes and then no reaction until she is relaxed for 5 minutes.

This will be very hard for you - if she doesn't eat, and she won't at first, you will feel bad taking the food away and then ignoring her. She will probably demand attention from you so ignoring her will be tough. When she does eat, and she will, your natural reaction will be to make a huge fuss of her and praise her -DON'T!!

Split her meals into the smallest portions you have the time to deal with - bear in mind that there should be at least two hours between feeds.
Increase activity - play and especially simple sit excersise, stay, come - do not reward with food - get excited and put on a high voice and physical praise instead.


Be aware that she may refuse food for several days and that if you start this then the garunteed way to make the dog worse in it's eating habits is to give up!!!

You must do it at every feed.

No tidbits of any kind.

As long as the vet says she is fine it will work - but you have to be prepared to see it through.

Please let us know how it goes, good luck!

[evelyn1157]

thanx a lot.
i took her to the vet a few days ago as she had diarrhea. The vet said that it was juz a normal case of overgrown protozoas and prescribed some antibiotics for her. her behaviour and weight is normal. and no one slips her ppl food.
i'll try carrie's method and see what happens.

[evelyn1157]

day one : she did not eat a thing :(

[MichelleN]

Evelyn: Don't worry, animals can go for much longer than us without food! Stick it out, we're rooting for you!

Sleipnir: My two boys come from the SPCA and they were FAT! Someone wasn't exercising them either 'coz they couldn't even run round the block! Now they're getting thinner (though the scale doesn't show an improvement) and they're 100% more energetic! It's wonderful to see such a change!

You baby looks beautiful, I'm also a new dog owner so I know how they get into your heart! :D

[jennifert]

Hang in there! Her instincts will kick in eventually and she'll eat! Let us know!

[carrie]

She will not eat for at least two or three days - it is worrying but the worst thing you can do is show any reaction.
She has to make the connection herself that food has no power over you. As you can't bark in a way she will understand it is your body language that you have to rely on to convey the message.
It hinges on your ability to TOTALLY ignore her - she will see you taking a sneaky look at her, even when you think she is not looking.
I know how hard this will be for you, but it is crucial.

I wish you all the luck in the world - something written down seems so easy, and to people that have never done it - it looks like a simple solution. I know it isn't - especially when you are already worried about the health issues.

Stick with it and she will eat.

Make sure that after you lift the food bowl and have the ignoring period that you interact normally with her until feed time comes round again.

Well done, be strong and remember it is for her own wellbeing in the end.

[Angels3]

We have a Tibetan Spaniel, a breed which has a connection with Shih-Tzus.
Our neighbours also have a male Tibetan Spaniel.
Both Tibbies refused to eat dry food. Yet, our top Tibbie breeder here recommends a dry food called Supercoat.
I solved the problem by mixing a little chicken, rice & vegetables with the dry food. Most times I use some PAL canned chicken casserole as the 'binder' for the dry food. But I sometimes prepare fresh chicken, rice & vegetables, too.
So these 2 Tibbies now eat their dry food happily this way.
By the way, I cook balsamic rice for the dogs...it has a much lower starch content than ordinary rice.
Marie

[evelyn1157]

it's not convenient for me to cook as i am staying in another state to study. and i have not tried the canned kind of wetfood as i heard that it's so much more tastier that they wouldn't want to eat their dryfood after that.and so i was thinking of switching to a more tastier brand of dryfood after zoey finishes her eukanuba. any reccomendation? i have seen eagle pack, purina one, science diet, royal canin. zoey hates alpo. and there's no innova here.

[Angels3]

The PAL canned chicken casserole that I use is mainly gravy. So a very little of that is enough to just get the taste (& smell?) thro' the dry food. Means that 1 can will last quite a few days (kept in the refrigerator).
But the Tibbies get their correct portion of dry food & actually eat it this way.
You're right about a whole list of dry food being available...& it's a matter of finding one that your own dog will eat & which is also nutritionally good.
There was a survey on one of the dog sites here in Oz, asking people what dry food they & their dogs preferred. The product, Supercoat, came out on top...but I think it may only be available here.
I'll ask the really good Tibbie breeders here if they know & use any of the dry food products that you've listed, Evelyn. A couple of them also breed Shih-Tzus.
I'll get back to you.
Marie

[KYS]

evelyn1157,
How is she doing?
Does she still have diarrhea or
our her stools nice and firm?
Keep us informed how your cutie is
doing.

[evelyn1157]

she does not have any more diarrhea after giving her the antibiotics and diarrhea pills.
day 2 : i give her 2 meals a day. she did not touch the 1st meal. but she ate about 3/4 of her 2nd meal. she must have been hungry. did not finish all of it though. what should i do if she does not eat again tomorrow?

[Angels3]

I spoke to some Tibbie owners & some of the good breeders.
First, the Tibbie owners all said that when they first open a packet of dry dog food, their dogs are more likely to eat it. After a week or so, the dry food seems to smell or taste 'stale' to the dog...& that's when it starts getting picky.
So people do things to keep the dry food as fresh as possible. They buy it in the smallest packets so it gets used up more quickly. As soon as they buy a new packet, they transfer the contents to air-tight jars with screw-top lids. They store the jars in a dry, cool place.
One of the very top breeders said that dogs are more geared than humans to not eat...so she said not to get too anxious about the pickiness. She said to put down the bowl of dry food for the dog. If it is not touched after 10 minutes, take it up. Then later put it down again for 10 minutes & take it up again if not eaten. She said that a valuable import Tibbie she had stuck this out for a week & then he began to eat normally...
Another breeder said that her Tibbies like dry cat food. She's checked this out with her vet & he said dry cat food was OK....but he said that canned cat food was not OK for dogs. The canned food contains a lot of oil & has a too high fat content for dogs. This breeder uses Whiskas dry cat food with her Tibbies. But she said she also uses Purina One & Eagle Pack.... the varieties with the small-sized kibble.
Hope some of this helps with Zoey. (Tibbies look like Shih-Tzus that have had a haircut.)
Marie

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Evelyn1157, I don't know what to tell you but I hope your sweetie is doing better now.
We feed our Schnauzers canned Lamb and rice in the morning and dry lamb and rice in the afternoon and they do well on that. Daisy has those days in the summer when she won't eat, and we kind of let it go for a day or two then she starts eating again. Hope all is well with your pup now.
Jackie

[KYS]

evelyn1157,

Glad the meds are working. :)
It is not unusual for a dog to skip
a meal or fast for 24 hrs, once in awhile.
Sometimes they just don't feel well
and they will fast on their own.
My sister has a shih tzu who is so picky she will only eat soft can with people
food and will not eat kibble. (she is spoiled) lol
As long as your pup is eating something
and not loosing weight, has a firm stool, eyes clear and acts healthy, no fever etc. I would not be to worried. It's when she doesn't eat for more than 2 days and she is
not acting herself etc. that would
be a red flag.
Never be afraid to call your vet to
ask his opinion and voice your your concerns, the phone call is free.
Maybe the antibiotics is making her a little
neauseas? You might try giving her some cooked ground hamburger and see if she gobbles that down.

I hope your baby is alright,
I will be thinking of her.
Let us know how she is doing tomarrow.

P.S. Giving her dog treats is also giving
her calories and can make her tummy feel
full.
Maybe she is just being a picky eater. :)

[evelyn1157]

well , i am back in my hometown for a 10-day break. and my mum said that zoey looks a bit thinner :( think i'll switch to eagle pack after her eukanuba finishes. is it ok if i were to alternate between eukanuba and eagle pack so that she won't get tired of either one?

[evelyn1157]

her stools weren't so nice today. still in shape but a bit soft and sticky

[evelyn1157]

day three : she ate less than half of each meal given :(

[KYS]

evelyn1157,
Changing foods can give her an upset stomach too. You might consider gradualy mixing the foods, or if you wish to change foods,
than make sure you SLOWLY add the new
food to her old one to give her
system a chance to get use to it.
If she has diarrha it is better that
she not eat for a day to give her stomach a chance to recoup. Soft stool but not diahrea
I would not feed her a full meal but
small meals and add a little rice. Or cook some ground hamburger and mix it
with a little rice and feed her in small meals.
Just to warn you by changing foods every time she grows bored of it,
You will probably turn her into a picky eater.
I would just find a good quality food and stick to it and add a little bit of people food for taste etc. like a teaspoon of cottage cheese or cooked hamburger etc.

Remember if she acts like she is not feeling well, please do not hesitate to call your vet.

Thinking of her and wishing her well.

[evelyn1157]

think i'll juz stick to one brand.which one is better , eukanuba or eagle pack?
day four : did not eat the 1st meal. ate about 3/4 of the 2nd meal

[twirlbird]

I dont know if this might help you but Diana is a really picky eater. She wont eat solid/dry food...maybe a nibble here or there. She really likes the moist food(the canned stuff) and the top choice i think it is...its semi moist food in little bags. Keep us updated on how Zoey is doing.

[evelyn1157]

zoey has been eating on and off.

[carrie]

I think you have done an amazing job of sticking with it.
It's not easy, I know. It's very easy to visualise the situation but a totally different thing when it is your dog!
Try, only after a partially eaten meal, some of the suggestions - a tiny bit of wet food mixed in, a very small amount of warm water - it may make all the difference.

Keep it up, I know you don't feel that much progress is being made but she will never be a Labrador!! You are doing great, she is eating something and you have started to take the issue out of food.
Well done!
Keep going, don't forget how important every step is and how valuable that you now see exactly how much is being eaten.
Keep up the ignoring phases and you will see a continued improvement.

Good work!

[Sudilar]

Is she lethargic? Does she press her head against things, does she circle? If so, have you had her liver checked for a portosystemic shunt?

Hope she starts eating soon.

[jennifert]

How is the puppy doing eating? Any luck? I WOKE up this morning thinking about her and wondering if she was eating better! :) I think I'm getting hooked on PetTalk!! ;)

[sabies]

My dog is an extremely picky eater. I agree with everything Carrie says BUT I was too weak to do it and have been for like 8 years now so both the dog and I are set in our ways (she says I am well trained).

One sign I have heard that the dog really doesn't like the food is they will carry it away from their bowl and eat it, rather than eat it over their bowl. I thought Sadie did that because she is sooo submissive (not just in eating habits), if I intruded on her when she was eating she would immediately stop, and would not return to the dish for a day.

The brand Sadie seems to favor (and I've tried many): Nutro.

Also, I give her cottage cheese which she LOVES to my surprise and raw egg yolks. These are her "treats" (she won't eat dog biscuits either). They aren't an every day thing (about 1-2 of each per week) but they are supposedly great for her and she gets sooooo happy. I wish I had time to make her food and try that route, but I barely cook for myself!

Hope your puppy is eating!

[evelyn1157]

zoey is eating better than she used to.she eats most of the time but she doesn't finish most of her meal.there are also times when she won't touch her meals.
i'm getting hooked to pettalk too. you guys have been great :D :D :D

[evelyn1157]

zoey's eukanuba dry food is finishing.and so i was thinking of switching to another brand of dry food.my vet told me to try out royal canin but my groomer told me to leave that as the last resort as they tend to not eat other brands once they have eaten royal canin.any suggestions or reccomendations?i don't have innova here.besides eukanuba, there's purina one, eagle pack, science diet ,royal canin and anf. the groomer gave me a sample of anf but zoey didn't quite like it.she ate the 1st meal and wouldn't touch the 2nd.
another problem is that i can't get my avatar to appear.

[sabies]

Sadie eats Royal Canin now. She's not thrilled with it. She seemed to get excited in the beginning but I got a huge bag and she just seems bored with it. Do you have Nutro anywhere near you? Other good ones: Solid Gold & Wysong. Sadie seemed to really like Wysong but it is expensive.

[jennifert]

Duncan eats Eukanuba per the vet's suggestion. She said never go "below" Iams. I have compared the ingredients and you cn see the difference for yourself in the first 5 listed. I would stick with Eukanuba if she's eating it and doing well...Petco has a dog food comparer on their website. It will list the ingredients in the food and the percentage of each I think. Only brands they sell however...
I'm glad to hear she is Zoey is doing well and that her eating habits are a little more stable. Duncan has taken to "waiting for something better" My fault for occassionally giving him table scraps...:o ;) ! He evenutally eats but only as a last resort....SILLY DOG!!!

[carrie]

evelyn1157, just wanted to say that I think you have been brilliant with this problem.
It is one of the most difficult things for a caring owner to cope with as there is so much worry attatched to it. You are a star!
I'm so pleased that things have improved so much, good on you!
People who have never had this problem don't really understand how awful it can be or how determined the dog can be.
Brilliantly done!

[evelyn1157]

well ,zoey 's back to her "don't want to eat phase"*sigh*
should i try royal canin? or should i try out eagle pack 1st? eukanuba , anf, and eagle pack is among the expensive brands over here whereas royal canin is a bit cheaper i think. i would prefer her eating eukanuba but she doesm't seem to like it.haven't seen nutro or solid gold & wystrong here though

[evelyn1157]

yipee!! my avatar's up and running:D

[sabies]

and running, and running, it's a cute avatar!

I don't know anything at all about Eagle Pack, but I think you should try the Royal Canin - they have different varieties, Sadie eats their Natural Blend variety. Now that she's older I go for as organic and preservative free as I can.

I've heard brands like Eukanuba, Science Diet, and Iams still have preservatives and while they may be recommended by vets they aren't the best.

She does seem to really like Royal Canin most days but every so often she looks in her bowl like "are you kidding?". Even on those days the bowl is emptied eventually.

[evelyn1157]

we don't habe the natural blend type here in malaysia only royal canin size nutrition. and the one which is suitable for zoey in on this website http://www.size-nutrition.com/sbp.htm
should i try it?

[evelyn1157]

or it this one better?
http://www.eaglepack.com/pages/eagle_pack_dog.html

[sabies]

Both those options look good to me. I checked the sites you gave and the Royal Canin's ingredients look good - no meat by-products or anything sketchy like that. Eagle pack looks good too - I prefer going for the holistic/natural varieties of whatever brand I choose and the Eagle Pack site has a holistic variety with ingredients that sound great. Not sure if that's available by you. Hopefully your dog will like one of them. By using brands that include human grade meat it should taste better and be more tempting!

I try to reward Sadie with a spoonful of cottage cheese or an egg yolk a few times a week only after she finishes a bowl of food. I hope she'll associate eating well with be rewarded to encourage her to eat. She can resist temptation to any treat, doesn't care about food at all, but cottage cheese she goes crazy for!

[mary_jsn]

i had nearly the same problem with Leika. I use Eukanuba puppy for small breeds, she didn't eat from her plate 'cause it was too big for her and it wasn't 100% her own. It belonged to my old dog Ringo. I used to give her in my hand, but you shouldn't do this, this will get you to give her everyday food from your hand. THen I bought the right plate for her. Maybe that's her problem?

[evelyn1157]

she has been using her own dog bowl since last time. :D

[evelyn1157]

the groomer recomended another brand of dog food which is called ' back to basics' . has anyone heard of this brand?

[evelyn1157]

this is their website
http://www.backtobasicspetfood.com/

[sabies]

Their ingredients look good too. Sadie is eating innova right now (which I know you can't get evelyn1157) and the 1st 2 ingredients are chicken and chicken meal so it sounds like a lot of meat which Sadie should love but I don't see her doing flips for it.

Evelyn 1157 - are you still concerned about how much your dog is eating? I think as long as you feed her what you consider the best brand nutritionally that's all you can do. She may know better than the recommended amount on the bag how much she wants - unless her weight is dangerously low or there are other signs of health issues.

[evelyn1157]

well, she's certainly not eating enough. she's thin but her hair tends to make her look fatter.and i don't think she's underweight yet. she'll be 9 months old this coming february and she's about 5 kg that's about 13.4 pounds.does that seem ok? oh , and i have finally settled for 'back to basics'

[sabies]

I looked up this info on Shih Tzus:

Size-Ideally, height at withers is 9 to 10 1/2 inches; but, not less than 8 inches nor more than 11 inches. Ideally, weight of mature dogs, 9 to 16 pounds.

So if she's around that height her weight is fine, on the high end even.

I'd only be concerned if her weight dropped and she was lethargic. Not all dogs eat everything in sight as I learned with my current dog. Some days she will skip meals or hardly eat, don't know why. For 9 years her weight has been steady - 35 - 38 lbs - it's as though she knows exactly how much her body needs to maintain that weight. I know a lot of people who would love to have that ability and discipline! (Of course Sadie doesn't do it for her figure.) Her teeth are good, coat is shiny- never had a health problem. Picky eating could be a good thing.