Yay! San Francisco to ban declawing!

[RedHedd]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/09/19/BA114007.DTL

[PayItForward]

What a wonderful (potential) acolade for San Francisco...To be the first American state to ban declawing, would be a triumph indeed. :D

[RedHedd]

Well, we're just a city, but a big-little city. ;) North Hollywood was the first city in California to ban declawing; San Francisco is just following suit. I hope it passes!

[Uabassoon]

Yay San Fran! I hope it passes :)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by RedHedd
Well, we're just a city, but a big-little city. ;) North Hollywood was the first city in California to ban declawing; San Francisco is just following suit. I hope it passes!



not me!!!!! and I DO have MY reasons!!!
;)

just kidding......

[slick]

Originally posted by RICHARD
not me!!!!! and I DO have MY reasons!!!
;) just kidding......
God, I just spit up again....... **snort** ** snicker**

[krazyaboutkatz]

Yeah!!! This is wonderful news!!!:D I sure hope that it passes and then hopefully other cities will follow suit. :)

[nodgeness]

Ok @ the risk of upsetting many Ptalkers I just want to say this.

I hope that by banning declawing in San Fransico & possibly all of CA that the humane societies don't see a decrease in cat adoptions.
I know some people will be thinking GOOD, cause if a person who adopts a cat declaws a cat they don't deserve a cat.
I just can't help but think that banning declawing will allow less people to adopt & leave more cats in cages :( Which doesn't sound good to me either!

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by nodgeness
Ok @ the risk of upsetting many Ptalkers I just want to say this.

I hope that by banning declawing in San Fransico & possibly all of CA that the humane societies don't see a decrease in cat adoptions.
I know some people will be thinking GOOD, cause if a person who adopts a cat declaws a cat they don't deserve a cat.
I just can't help but think that banning declawing will allow less people to adopt & leave more cats in cages :( Which doesn't sound good to me either!

You might see an reduction in adoptions at the beginning but the cats which are adopted are a lot more likely to stay adopted not returned to the shelters because of declawing issues (i.e.cat biting or not using litter tray etc)

In the long run it is SO much better for cats. :D :D

PS. Don't forget at the beginning people will still be able to adopt cats which are in shelters because they are already declawed.

[Killearn Kitties]

Encouraging news!!! I hope it passes this time. I do think legislation is the only way to get across the message that this is not a benign procedure for a cat.

[Kirsten]

Good news, let's hope it passes and gives a good example for other states to follow...

And do declawed cats really have a better chance to be adopted? Here in Germany, cats are not declawed and yet they are the most popular pets in our households...

Kirsten

[bisi.cat]

Originally posted by Kirsten

And do declawed cats really have a better chance to be adopted? Here in Germany, cats are not declawed and yet they are the most popular pets in our households...


How true!!!
I hope this time it will pass!!! I have to agree with Kirsten that although declawing over here is illegeal it has no influence on the number of adoptions...
...I also hope that one day there will be only "no-kill" shelters across America, too...so there wouldn't be the choice to either declaw or having a healthy cat put down in a shelter...

But for now congrats to the City of SF for trying to make a difference!!!

[nodgeness]

bisi.
Question for you. In Germany they only have no-kill shelters? If that's the case I totally wish they would do that here in the US!
No kill shelters would make the declawing issue a little better for me. Although it still leaves cats in cages.
Also to PIF & not just to you, I see many people post about cats having declawing issues, I have never seen a cat have any of the problems talked about in these threads. All the "declawed" cats I've seen have been healthy happy little guys that have none of the issues discussed. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying I've yet to see it happen.

[catmandu]

some of my Cats came declawed , and some with clwas and the main difference that I see is that when the Cat gets older , they cant groom the back of thier tail as well. And you have to make sure not to let them out as they cant get away. I willnever declaw a Cat , but then again I dont have expensive , scratchable things!

[bisi.cat]

Originally posted by nodgeness
bisi.
Question for you. In Germany they only have no-kill shelters?
Yes, that's true!

As in the No-Kill Shelters in America it's only allowed to euthanzie an animal 1) in case it's seriously ill (with no chance of recovery) meaning the animal has, due to the illness, no quality of life and only suffers or 2) in case it's been severly aggressive towards humans...

[slleipnir]

Originally posted by Kirsten
Good news, let's hope it passes and gives a good example for other states to follow...

And do declawed cats really have a better chance to be adopted? Here in Germany, cats are not declawed and yet they are the most popular pets in our households...

Kirsten


With this and what nodge said..I know of ppl who get cats, it destroys the place, then they get rid of it because they are stupid..but it happens, it wouldn't if they didn't have claws..I'm not saying declawing is good or it shouldn't be banned, but I truely believe looking at the WHOLE picture it saves cats lives, which to me is the most important thing.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by nodgeness
Also to PIF & not just to you, I see many people post about cats having declawing issues, I have never seen a cat have any of the problems talked about in these threads. All the "declawed" cats I've seen have been healthy happy little guys that have none of the issues discussed. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying I've yet to see it happen.
In fact some experts don't believe that behavioural issues are connected to declawing. i.e. Not using litter trays correctly or biting.

So there is no concrete proof that there is a connection, but many people have reported these changes of behaviour directly after declawing has taken place and some experts do believe that there is a link.

The only PROVEN problems are physical in nature. The regrowth of claws (esp if not detected early) can be a painful problem but mercifully this is rare.

Cat need their front claws to stretch properly to exercise their muscles including the muscles around the heart.
Declawed cats can not exercise correctly and this leads to problems with their back and joints at a younger age than fully clawed animals.

I am pleased that your pretty kitties show no behavioural problems but I know of at least one cat on PT has had problems following declawing (Scooter ??? Maybe)

[PayItForward]

Here is a long quote from this very informative website about declawing, with articles on how to train your cat to use a scratching post etc. Personally I would avoid the declawing operation articles... Very gory pictures which made me sick.

http://community-2.webtv.net/zuzu22/STOPDECLAWCOM

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What are the potential complications of declawing?

Post-surgical complications: Abscesses and claw regrowth can occur a few weeks to many years after surgery. Chronic or intermittent lameness may develop. In one study that followed cats for only 5 months after surgery, nearly 1/3 of cats developed complications from both declaw and tendonectomy surgeries (digital tendonectomy is a procedure whereby the tendons that extend the toes are cut; it's sometimes promoted as an "alternative" to declawing. However, because these cats require constant maintenance and frequent nail clipping to prevent injury, many end up being declawed anyway).

Pain: It is impossible to know how much chronic pain and suffering declawing causes, because cats are unable to express these in human terms. However, we can compare similar procedures in people. Nearly all human amputees report "phantom" sensations from the amputated part, ranging from merely strange to extremely painful (about 40% of such sensations are categorized as painful). Because declawing involves at least ten separate amputations, it is virtually certain that all declawed cats experience phantom pain in one or more toes. In humans, these sensations continue for life, even when the amputation took place in early childhood. There is no physiological reason that this would not be true for cats. Cats are stoic creatures, and typically conceal pain or illness until it becomes overwhelming. With chronic pain, they may simply learn to live and cope with it. Their behavior may appear "normal," but a lack of overt signs of pain does not mean that they are pain-free.

Joint Stiffness: In declawed (and tendonectomized) cats, the tendons that control the toe joints retract after surgery, and these joints become essentially "frozen." The toes remain fully contracted for the life of the cat. In cats that have been declawed for many years, these joints often cannot be moved, even under deep anesthesia. The fact that most cats continue to make scratching motions after they are declawed is often said to "prove" that they do not "miss" their claws. However, this behavior is more realistically explained as desperate but ineffective efforts to stretch those stiff toes, legs, shoulders and backs.

Arthritis: Research has shown that, in the immediate post-operative period, newly declawed cats shift their body weight backward onto the large central pads of the feet, and off the sore toes. This effect was significant even when strong pain medication was given, and remained apparent for the duration of the study (up to 40 hours after the surgery). If this altered gait persists over time, it would cause stress on the leg joints and spine, and could lead to damage and arthritic changes in multiple joints. A recent study showed that arthritis of the elbow is very common in older cats. When contacted, the researchers admitted that they did not ask or record whether the cats were declawed, perhaps preferring the "don't ask, don't tell" policy so as not to anger those many veterinarians who make a lot of money from declawing.

Litterbox Problems: Experts say that declawed cats have more litterbox problems than clawed cats. Not many people would choose urine-soaked carpeting (or floorboards, sofa cushions, walls, bedding, or mattresses) over a few scratch marks, but this is a distressingly common outcome. In one survey, 95% of calls about declawed cats related to litterbox problems, while only 46% of clawed cats had such problems - and most of those were older cats, many of them with physical ailments that accounted for the behavior. Some households with declawed cats have spent thousands of dollars replacing drywall, carpets, and subfloors to repair urine damage.

Biting: Some experts believe that cats who are declawed are likely to become biters. Many declawed cats do seem to "notice" that their claws are missing, and turn to biting as a primary means of defense - not a good choice for a cat in a home with children or immunocompromised individuals.

Change in Personality: This is a common complaint - "my cat has never been the same." A friendly, delightful kitten may become a morose, fearful, or reclusive cat, never to recover its natural joy, grace, and love of exploration.

Neglect and Abuse: Declawing that results in biting or inappropriate elimination outside the litterbox may result in the cat being permanently locked in the basement, dumped at a shelter, or simply abandoned. Many cats are exiled to a life outdoors because of these unwanted behaviors, even though declawed cats should never be allowed outside unsupervised - their ability to defend themselves, and to escape danger by climbing, is seriously impaired. They also risk injury or death by dogs, cars, wild predators, disease, poison, and other hazards of outdoor life.

Death: There is always a small but real risk of death from any general anesthesia, as well as from bleeding or other surgical complications. If a declawed cat that develops a behavior problem is taken to a shelter, such behavior makes him unadoptable, and he will promptly be euthanized (killed). For exiled cats, it is unfortunately common for outdoor cats to be stolen and used as defenseless live bait to be torn apart by fighting dogs, or sold to laboratories or biological suppliers. It's an ugly reality that a tame, friendly, declawed cat makes an ideal experimental subject.

Is LASER declawing okay?

Laser declawing causes less bleeding and swelling than other surgical techniques. This reduces pain and complications in the first few days after surgery, but the long-term consequences of the procedure remain the same.

Who says declawing is a bad idea?

Declawing is illegal or considered extremely inhumane in 25 countries around the world, including most "civilized" nations: England, Scotland, Wales, Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Denmark, Finland, Slovenia, Portugal, Belgium, Spain, Brazil, Israel, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and Yugoslavia.

Last but not least . . . .

We know that there are a few individuals who will always declaw their cats. Their own personal convenience and the safety of their belongings is their top priority, and whether or not it causes suffering to the cat is not a significant concern. (Whether they should have a cat at all is a debate for another time!)

Fortunately, most people truly love their feline companions and want to do what's best for all concerned. If you are one of these wonderful people (and if you've read this far, we're pretty sure you are!), please think carefully about this beautiful little animal who trusts you and relies on you for her very existence. Please make the humane choice - and DO NOT DECLAW!
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(END OF QUOTE)

[nodgeness]

It's comments like this that upset me! I'll explain why @ the bottom of the blue.
We know that there are a few individuals who will always declaw their cats. Their own personal convenience and the safety of their belongings is their top priority, and whether or not it causes suffering to the cat is not a significant concern. (Whether they should have a cat at all is a debate for another time!)

Fortunately, most people truly love their feline companions and want to do what's best for all concerned. If you are one of these wonderful people (and if you've read this far, we're pretty sure you are!), please think carefully about this beautiful little animal who trusts you and relies on you for her very existence. Please make the humane choice - and DO NOT DECLAW!
Here's why
1. Statements like that assume people declaw cats for their own personal convenience. NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. example: Rental property sometimes require it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who move from a house to a rental place. Banning declawing would leave 1 option & that is to get rid of their beloved cat. Which leaves a once happy cat w/ out it's family & in a cage.
2. Statements like that also imply people who choose the option of declawing their cat don't truly love thier animal. FALSE!!!! My cats are treated just like a member of the family. Please don't anyone respond would you take your kids & have part of their finger removed. You don't see kids in little cages & I also don't pay a deposit to keep kids @ my place.
3. I thought long & hard about getting Bernie declawed before i decided to have it done. I didn't choose declawing for convenience or for safety of my belongings as implied by the above article. I was nothing but concerned for my Bernie when I made the decision.
These articles/statements are nothing but judgmental statements. I don't have to justify why I opted to have Bernie declawed but everyday when I look @ my kitties I FEEL WONDERFUL that they are not in some horrible cage watching people come & go picking other animals to take home. My babies are at home w/ me where they are supposed to be.
Some of the "potential complications" I'm sure can happen but my cats are healthy. Also declawed cats stretch the way they are supposed to. My cats stretch just like they always have.


2 more things.
1. Of course there are going to be potential complications of declawing but, aren't there potential complications w/ just about everything we humans do? Aren't there potential complications of having animals teeth cleaned, spayed/neutered? There are potential complications everytime you knock an animal or human out.

2.Please make the humane choice - and DO NOT DECLAW!
Is it more humane to put a healthy animal to sleep &/or keep a healthy animal in a cage? This is what happens!

[slleipnir]

To answer 1. Because if we know we are doing it for a purpose, ie stop reproduction, then it some how redemes ourselves (make it not bad), or thats what we tell ourselfs..

[PayItForward]

You do realise that second post from me was a quote from the website not facts from me ?

I just put forward my opinion as you asked me too, please don't get upset with the response.

Please Note
Your cats CANNOT stretch properly without their claws, this is a fact and however strongly you deny it, won't change the facts.
Declawed cats are physically incapable of stretching in a complete manner as they NEED the claws to do this.

This does not necessarily mean, that your cats are suffering due to lack of stretching ability, you would have to check with your vet to be sure either way.

[nodgeness]

PIF, yes I understood that came from an article. That's why I responded to the article/statements.