Am very upset about Luna today

[Kirsten]

This morning I caught her in the act - peeing on the couch in the living room! This is the worst possible case in behaviour things here, because the couch is ruined now - I'll never get that smell out of it - also, I know from experience she'll pee there again and again now! :( And I just don't have the money to buy a new couch!

Earlier this year, she has already ruined another couch (guest bed) in the cat room, when she continued peeing onto it until I had no other choice but to dispose the seat. I have bought a new mattress which I covered with synthetic leather and a blanket, so I can easily clean it in case there are further accidents.

The peeing problem has been very bad with her in the spring (she also soiled a little carpet in the cat room, but easily to wash), and I eventually found out she had a bladder infection and struvite crystals, and after a treatment the problem almost disappeared.

There have been some further accidents in the week after Lily's arrival, Luna has peed on the little cotton carpets in the hall (I can live with that because they can be washed), but she more or less stopped doing that after I placed one of the litter boxes in the hall.

AND NOW THIS! :( This has been really the worst place for such an accident! I was so happy last year when I moved into the bigger appartment and got the second-hand couch and furniture from my sister! And now it's ruined, or at least it will be when she's doing that again (I hope I'll be able to get the worst smell out of it this time!).

I have to admit, my first reaction was "I have to give her up now, she went too far this time!" I'm feeling very bad for this now, and it's the very first time I ever thought that, no matter how much peeing stress I already had with Luna! But I have such a lot of bad things to deal with at the moment, the job loss and a couple of other things, and this was really too much this morning! I tell you, I was crying my eyes out for the next hour, and still feel miserable. :(

Of course I love her dearly and could never give her up, but I have to find ways to live with that. So what did I do? Bought rubber sheets for the couch and two big sofa plaids, all in all for more than 65 Euro (which is a lot for me as an unemployed) :(, and I have to try to get some urin from her again - because of course I have to make sure she's not sick again!

But I can't help but still being mad at her. The living room door is closed now btw, at least until the wet spot has dried and the couch is covered with the rubber and the plaids. Luna and Lily aren't happy with that situation, especially since their favourite sleeping place is in there - but I have no other choice at the moment. I can't risk she's doing it again before the couch is covered! :(

Kirsten

[popcornbird]

Oh no! :( Poor Luna doesn't understand, but I would be upset too. This is one of the reasons my mom doesn't like having cats in the house. She can't stand having an animal peeing in the house, even if its once in years, and unfortunately, it happens, even to cats who are good with their litter box. I wish you the best of luck in solving the problem, and hope you can clean your sofa successfully! Try sprinkling baking soda all over it, and vaccuum after two days...........or wash the cushion first, then pour baking soda on it, and vaccuum after its dry. That's the best advice I can give you, but I'm sure the cat mom's can give more.

[K & L]

Have you had her checked by a vet to make sure there's no medical reasons she's doing this?

[Kirsten]

Baking soda sounds like a good idea, popcornbird, I'll try that (because I'm afraid Febrèze won't work). :(

K&L, so far I didn't take her to the vet. I have to get some urine from her first to have it checked for struvite crystals. Since she already had them in the past, it's very likely she's having these problems again.

Kirsten

[jazzcat]

I'm so sorry. I know how things can build up and then something like this can be a breaking point. I hope Luna is okay but I wouldn't be surprised if the stress of meeting Lily might have brought on a medical problem.

As for the sofa, have you ever tried Nature's Miracle to remove the urine stain and smell? I'm not sure if it is sold outside the US but it could be ordered online. I couldn't live without it with my 11 year old dog Disney who's bladder can't hold as much as it use to. If I'm gone for more than 8 hours she sometimes uses a spot on the living room carpet to urinate. The Nature's Miracle removes the smell because it breaks down the enzyme in urine (or something like that). I know it works on cat pee too because I used it on a chair cushion last year that was completely hosed down by a cat. The smell and the stain were totally gone after 3 cleanings with Nature's Miracle.

Just a suggestion to help your sofa. Hope it helps and hope everything works out okay.

[jenluckenbach]

Let's see if I can remember everything I want to say:
1) definitely have her checked medically. Crystals are something that usually require a special diet FOREVER in order for them to not return. Has she been on prescription food?
2) get a product that is an enzyme cleaner specially for cat urine. Soak, and I mean SOAK the pee spot and allow it to dry. If you can borrow a machine that extracts water (like a bissell little green clean machine, or full sized carpet cleaner with upholstry attachments) use it on the spot after the enzyme cleaner has has a time to work.
3) The rubber bed sheets to cover the furniture is EXACTLY what my vet suggested to me in case of further accidents (as you know I am combatting a bit of a peeing problem myself).
4) if it is not medical (but I'll bet you it is) you may have to do like I am doing and confine her to a small room for about 2 weeks to retrain her about the box.
5) when you brought Lilly in, did you add another litter box? And even if you now have 2, you may need 3. (I have read many time to have 1 MORE litter box than you have cat)
6) and most important, GOOD LUCK !

[Kirsten]

Jazzcat, that Nature's Miracle sounds good, but I never heard about it here before! Will try to order something like that online because I'm sure this isn't the last accident!

Jen, I also think it's medical again, even though she's still on a prescription diet... But she's also eating from Lily's bowls now, + the stress after Lily's arrival... :(

I hope I don't have to keep her seperated to retrain her, that would break her heart - and also mine. :(

I didn't add another box after Lily's arrival because she had three already! They were all in the cat room and when Lily first slept in the cat room during her first days here, Luna peed into the hall. After that incident, I placed one of the boxes in the hall which she is mostly using now. Even though I'm cleaning the boxes at least twice a day, it may not have matched her hygienic standards because later today, she pooped onto the floor in the hall. After that, I gave her box a very intense cleaning. :) But I wouldn't be surprised if there are struvite crystals again. :(

BTW, did you make any progress with your peeing problem?

Kirsten

[Edwina's Secretary]

Do try the enzyme cleaner before you give up on the sofa. I got some for cleaning the dining room :rolleyes: and it really works.

Let me know if you have trouble finding it. There is a store by me that sells it and I can send it to you. Different brand, same thing.

[Russian Blue]

I'm so sorry to hear about Luna! Everyone has given you excellent advice and I hope it will help you. The Nature's Miracle is an excellent product. Here's a link:

Nature's Miracle (http://www.ultimatecats.com/gallery/naturesmiracle.htm)

As everyone said, first find out if it is medically related. From my research on struvite crystals, it is recommended that cats who have continuing problems should be fed a high meat diet. Do you feed her strictly dried or mixed can and dry food? Maybe you might want to consider a raw diet, since meat protein is shown to be a natural urine acidifier. You might want to talk to your vet about this. Or you can look into providing an all meat canned diet that is available in pet stores.

If this problem is not medically related, you might want to talk to your vet about putting Luna on a low dose behavioural drugs to combat Luna's stress at certain times. Also a Feliway plug in wouldn't be a bad idea either to help calm Luna's nerves.

Best wishes going your way.


;)

[Kirsten]

Thanks a lot, Edwina's Secretary, that would be nice - just in case I cannot find it somewhere else! :)

Russian Blue, thanks for the link! Right now it's not working but I'll try again tomorrow!

Luna is eating both canned and dry food. She already had to be on a Hill's Indoors diet because otherwise she constipates. I'm mixing it with Hill's s/d which I have been given after the struvite crystals have been detected last time. I will talk to my vet about further options just in case it's medical-related again.

I just made a tough decision: To get some urine from Luna, she has to stay in the cat room tonight - with an empty litter box which she will hopefully use!

Guess I won't get much sleep tonight because both of my cats are freaking out over this situation: Luna is scratching the door from one side and Lily (who has only the hall and my bedroom tonight since the living room has to stay closed till the sofa can be covered) is crying in front of the cat room door because she doesn't want to be seperated from Luna. It breaks my heart! :(

Kirsten

[jenluckenbach]

1) you can put shredded wax paper in the box. It will not absorb urine, but will give her something to scratch around in.
2) Little Kim had urine crystal inspite of being on the c/d food. The vet told me to allow her NOTHING else to eat. no treats, nothing and then retest her. It worked, so be careful to give Luna only the prescription food. The vet said, for a cat with this problem, even a little bit of something else could be harmful.

[moosmom]

Nature's Miracle works wonders!! My cat Casey (RB, 2002) had a UTI a couple of years ago and peed not only on my bed, but on my comforter. I bought a bottle of the stuff a soaked the spot with it. I then turned on my box fan to help dry it and the odor was gone!!

Don't give up on your kitty, Kirsten. I know you've got alot going on right now. But it could be Luna is telling you something. It may very well be she has another UTI. It's not uncommon. I'd get her to the vet again. My vet told me that some cats are more susceptible to UTI's. And cheap food doesn't help. When Casey got his UTI, I had changed from Science Diet to a cheaper brand and BINGO, a UTI showed up. Ask your vet about this.

Another product that's great is Nok-Out. It's about $30 for a gallon and can be ordered online, but also gets rid of the odor. Since money is tight, Nature's Miracle is your best bet.

Good luck, hon. Please keep us posted on the situation.

[NoahsMommy]

:( I'm so sorry she's started up again. I hope she's OK and this can get worked out with the retraining.

Do you think it would help Luna and Lily to allow Lily into Luna's room?

[Felicia's Mom]

I am sorry this is happening. :( :( Good Luck.

[bisi.cat]

Oh I am so sorry to hear, because everything seemed to turn out so very well with Luna and Lily...
I also think that it is a medical problem and I do hope your vet will help!!!

I've read that you can place aluminium foil over the couch, that will keep the cats away and you can give them access to the living room again...and maybe placing one of the litterboxes close to the couch may be helpful as well...
I hope that it isn't a behavioural problem with Luna, because it is would be so hard to deal with it for you right now...
Whatever it is I hope Luna will recover quickly and you'll enjoy your little "Katzenglueck" again!!!

Thinking of you, Luna and Baby Lily,

Sabine

[Barbara]

I think you got very good advice. I am so sorry about that. I hope you have the urine soon to have Luna checked.
Extra scritchies to Luna and {{{hugs}}} to you:)

[Kirsten]

Here's an update:

After a horrible night for everyone of us (Luna feeling lonely in her "prison", Lily missing Luna and mommy being upset anyway), Luna finally used her empty litterbox this morning! Now I could finally open the door to the cat room again and Lily and Luna were greeting each other as if they have been seperated for ages!

However, I immediately brought the urine to the vet, and they found out there's a small amount of bacteria and an increased pH-value - so it very much looks like a beginning UTI again. There are no struvite crystals yet, but due to the basic pH it's very likely she would have devoloped some in the next future. I've got pills for her now and have to find a diet that allows the additional feeding of Hill's Indoors (which she has to eat, otherwise she constipates again). Well, things are always complicated with my Luna girl! :)

At the moment, Luna and Lily are happy to be together again. I just found Luna grooming Lily and the baby was suckling again! :) They are definitely happy to have each other! :)

Kirsten

[jenluckenbach]

Congratulations on getting the urine sample (I am not having as much luck here with Sterling). And continued success in keepig Luna healthy and happy. At least now you have the medicine and that should be the beginning of the end of the problems. You should ask if there is anything you can do to try to prevent further UTI's since she seems to be prone to them.

[Lerah021399]

Luna,

I was very sorry to read that you are not feeling good. It makes me sad to think of you in any kind of pain. :( I hope that you are feeling better soon. Make sure you take your medicine and eat your special food and don't give your meowmie a hard time. I know that it's hard not to feel a bit grumpy when you don't feel good. I'm glad your meowmie saw that you weren't feeling good so early so that it didn't get any worse. Sending you purrs and headbumpies.

Yours furever,
Jack

[K & L]

I'm glad you caught this in the early stages! Hope she clears up and feels better real soon!

[moosmom]

I'm so glad you were able to catch the UTI in time. Cats have an amazing way of letting you know when something is wrong. I'm glad you listened and got her help.

Hoping Luna girl is feeling better soon!!

[Cinder & Smoke]

OK... Kat's *fixed* :) ;
let's work on the Couch!

Most sofas & couches have removable cushions -
examine the cushion to see if it has a Zipper along the back edge that will allow you to remove the fabric cover...
If so - open the zipper and pull off the cover.
Launder or possibly dry-clean that seperate from the padding insert. You should be able to find a German brand of an "enzyme" type of cleaner.

NO Zipper?
Go to an Upholstry Shop and ask about them *replacing* the padding or foam rubber insert.
Even if they have to install a Zipper - that may be a lot less expensive than replacing the whole couch.

/s/ Phred

[Kirsten]

No, my couch doesn't have a zipper or removable parts... and in my current situation I really don't have any money left for the upholstry shop. But I think I've got the worst smell out of it. Lily, however, sniffed there immediately when I just let the cats back into the living room today. The couch is covered with rubber sheets now and cream colored plaids. Looks a bit messy but it's the best choice I have at the moment.

Luna just got her first pill and I hope it will help her to recover soon. But I cannot say I'm trusting her 100% as far as the sofa is concerned... :eek: I sprayed it with Feliway, hope that helps!

Luna would like to thank Jack for his sweet words, it means a lot to her he's thinking of her! :)

Kirsten

[Kirsten]

Argh, it's not working with the pills!!!

I mixed one under Luna's food (I bought Sheba because usually she eats that immediately, and it can only work like that because I have to feed her seperated from Lily because the baby eats EVERYTHING so I have to make sure she's not eating from the food with the pill in it) and after she tried a bit, she puked all over the place. She doesn't seem to feel sick because minutes later, she ate from Lily's food. I figure the pill made the food bitter... :(

Now the first of the 14 pills is already wasted, and I had to clean up the entire room. I'm so exhausted at the moment that I'm feeling I'm going to pass out if I don't get a break soon. Geez, having cats has never been that stressful! *sigh*

Kirsten

[jenluckenbach]

I was recently explaining to some people that I never take the chance of hiding a pill in the food. It is too risky that they will not get the dosage. Be strong and just get a good grip on the scruff of Luna's neck, pull her head back, have the pill in your other hand already, put your pinkie on the side of her mouth and wiggle it between the teeth until she opens, but the pill WAY back on the tongue as far as you can and then let her close her mouth. Make sure she doesn't let her tongue spit it out. DONE. Sterling and Jim were both giving me more trouble than I expected, but are accepting this method so it is becomeing less time consuming. Of course, Jim wants to try to push my hand away with his front feet, so I tuck them under my arm. Not too comfortable, but it is only for a few seconds. Just remember, grab a lot of skin, tilt the head nice and far and don't give up, it is VERY important for them to have the medicine.

[Denyce]

I am giving Deirdre a medication called Clomicalm to help with her anxiety. Long story..but the pill is very soft and bitter tasting. So we have the horrible drool every time I gave it to her.

I found that Velveeta cheese makes a great carrier for a nasty pill. I take a small amount and wrap it around the pill. It is soft so it forms a ball easily. I then just open her mouth and shove the ball of cheese down her throat. Because of it's texture it slides down easily and it is coating the nasty pill so no horrible drool.

Denyce

[Kirsten]

Hmm, you could be right about the dosis...

However, this put-it-straight-into-the-mouth-method never worked for me so far, impossible to hold Luna if she doesn't want to... but I will start another try tomorrow. Wish me luck! :)

Kirsten

[Kirsten]

Denyce, meanwhile I'm almost sure it was no vomiting but drooling, like your Deirdre!

The cheese method sounds like it's worth a try, thanks! :)

Kirsten

[jenluckenbach]

velveeta cheese here I come. At least they can get s bit of a treat while I pill them. :)

[Cinder & Smoke]

Here's a good article on How to PILL da Kat ~
with minimal loss of blood...

How to PILL the Kat article (http://www.hsus2.org/international/library/eng_ht_pill_cat.html)

And we'll repeat *our* method ~
Get youselves a Pill Shooter!

They are *cheap* - less than $4.00 US;
should be availabe in any Pet Store - US and elsewhere:
cause little *stress* to either Kitty OR the Human;
almost Guarantee a successful *pilling* on the first *shot* :p

Here's a poor picture of ours - all soft plastic and made by
Four Paws".

Pix - "Four Paws Pill Dispenser" (http://www.petdiscounters.com/dog/health/nutritional/fp_pill_dispenser.html)

Dad *loves* it; Boots tolerates it;
and there hasn't been a lost or spit-out pill in years! :cool:

Y'all really Otta Get One!!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by Denyce
...I found that Velveeta cheese makes a
great carrier for a nasty pill...

Furgot ta mention...

Dad tried dis Cheeze Ball method...

Did a great job of *wrappin* da pill...
"Fully Wrapped" - nuffin showin cept CHEEZE.

Downa Hatch it went...
Took da Kat over a minnit -
LOTTA phunnie facial expressions -
twisted his head almost inna circle -
then some *chompin* an finally a *Swallow*!

Quickly followed by a Pa-Tewee :eek: as
da pill flew outta his mouff!! :eek: :mad:
JEST da pill! Cheeze Ball went downa hatch! :rolleyes:

Dad bought da Pill Shooter next day!

[Barbara]

I love the nice drawings in Phred's article above. The cat looks so quiet and content.

Filou didn't look like that when we tried to give him the pill (although I had cats in my life for whom it would work).

We put Filou's first pills in Gimpet Multivitaminpaste. After he had checked that there were pills we were using raw meat. Filou swallowed all of it.

The problem for you (like for me) will be to be firm but quiet (I am even more scared than the cat). My husband had to do it.

Fingers crossed!

[jenluckenbach]

OK. skip the cheese, pill shooter here I come. I really DID want to get one, but I have been so darned rushed lately!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Well... we seem to have picked up ONE Convert to the Pill Shooter...

But what about Kirsten?? :confused:

Who's ahead in Your House in the Pill War??

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

Hi Kirsten,

I'm really sorry to hear about all the troubles you are having! Hang in there - things will improve!

Re the "pill" issue - I have thankfully never had to give Ally a pill, but at the shelter the lady who does the meds usually wraps them in an old towel - really tight - before she tries to pill them.

[Kirsten]

That pill shooter thing sounds very helpful, I'll check the German online pet stores for a thing like this.

But the pills Luna has to eat now are BIG, and I have no other choice but mixing it under her food.

BTW, no more peeing accidents so far, I hope the antibiotics are helping her already! :)

Kirsten

[jenluckenbach]

Sadly I finally got the pill shooter and it was a big flop. The hole at the bottom was to large to even hold the pill inside. I do not know for sure if Sterling or Jim got their dose this afternoon. Does it come in different sizes? I only saw one choice.

(sorry to use this thread for my question, but this is where we were talking about it)

[Barbara]

Kirsten, these pill shooters exist here too. Gudrun bought one at her vet's.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Sadly I finally got the pill shooter and it was a big flop. The hole at the bottom was to large to even hold the pill inside. I do not know for sure if Sterling or Jim got their dose this afternoon. Does it come in different sizes? I only saw one choice.

(sorry to use this thread for my question, but this is where we were talking about it) I got mine from my vets office and as far as I know it only comes in one size. I mainly used it when I had to give my RB Pepper more than one kind of pill. I would stuff 3 different pills in it so that I only needed to bother him one time.

Where did you buy it? Maybe you should call your vets office to find out if they only come in one size.

[Tonya]

As for the sofa, have you ever tried Nature's Miracle to remove the urine stain and smell?

I don't know if I could live without Nature's Miracle. It works great. I bet it is a medical problem; cat's are generally clean animals.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Sadly I finally got the pill shooter and
it was a big flop.
The hole at the bottom was to large to even hold the pill inside.

... Does it come in different sizes? I only saw one choice.



Hmmmmm?? :confused:

The "outer" or "gripper" part of our Shooter has four segments that *almost* touch...
It would probably hold any pill larger than a grain of rice.

If your pill IS too small to be held;
WRAP it in something - like wad of CHEESE -
to enlarge the pill to a size the Shooter can hold.

[jenluckenbach]

The "outer" or "gripper" part of our Shooter has four segments that *almost* touch...
that's just IT......they DON'T almost touch. maybe it was a defective one (you know, mass production :rolleyes: ) I'm planning on returning it.

[Kirsten]

I think I'll ask my vet for the pill shooter, too. I think it wouldn't have worked with these ones because even the quarter of the antibiotics were too big for a cat to swallow. Luna got the last one this morning btw.

And so far, I haven't checked the net for Nature's Miracle, but I will... The baking soda worked very well on that spot on the sofa and I can't smell it anymore. But I have to be prepared for further accidents to happen... ;)

Kirsten