A not so nice thing about my new job

[NoahsMommy]

:( :( :(
Well, I seem to be the minority at work when it comes to declawing cats. :mad:

I kind of tested the waters with my boss, asking about her cats, and then asking about if the vet sold Soft Paws. She said, "No, our clients get mad when they come off. Its just a temporary solution." ( :mad: ) I went on and did my commercial for Soft Paws, but I really didn't have an audience. :(

Today, there were two orangies in for a declaw. :( All wrapped up in bandages cause they were bleeding. :( (They use the laser version, but still...its still declawing!!!)

I was sitting there doing something, when a man came out of a exam room and asked to use the phone to call his wife. I dialed the number for him and overheard his conversation asking his wife if she wanted the cats declawed ("We can leave them now and pick them up in two days, honey!"). I could tell she wasn't so hot on the idea, but he kept saying things that the vet had told him ( :mad: ) ... "The vet here says he wouldn't have a cat that wasn't declawed." "The vet here says he's NEVER seen a cat with any sort of behavioral problems due to a declaw.".... :( Yea right!!! Never explored that route, I'd imagine!!!!

Basically, they left the two kittens (abour 6 months old) and they'll be going under the knife tomorrow. :(

I couldn't do anything. The first thing my boss told me is that we are NOT allowed to give our advice or opinion to anyone. :(

I let something slip when he said something like, "No, I'm Tom, the cat's name is Pete." and I said, "Oh, you mean you don't want to get your claws ripped out?" I didn't mean to say it, and I really hope he wont tell on me. I need this job.

I was sick to my stomach the rest of the day. I'll have to deal with this, I guess. I just needed to vent here, to those that understand.

Thanks for listening.

[Fuzzy317]

I sorry you are having to deal with that at work. I hope you will be able to work there, knowing the vets opinion on declawing :rolleyes:

Using scratching posts and clipping the nails make declawing totally wrong. :mad:

[bisi.cat]

I can feel your ANGER :mad: and I share your ANGER!!!:mad:

This is so very sad, because it's the vet who should show responsibility to the cats...I am strictly against declawing and I'm glad that it's illegeal here!!!

Maybe he's the kind of vet who just sees $$ when it comes to declawing...I guess there's really no way to convince him and his indication to not try to tell the people any objections against it on your side just makes it clear: it's a cash thing...GROAN!!!:mad: :mad:

I know I would go frantic there...I think you should stay there (because you need a job) and try to find another job soon at a responsible vet if possible!!!

Oh this is such a sad and bad situation for you, but maybe you could suggest "Soft Paws" as an option to people who are uncertain...

Paws (with claws!!!) and fingers crossed here!!!

OOOhhhh I am soooooo angrey and sad...:( :mad: :( :mad:

[NoahsMommy]

It seems like I'm a huge minority where we live. Out of three vets (this job included) all three happily declaw. :( :( :(

I guess its the "norm" around here.

I wonder if I could do anything about educating people and still keep my job????

[bisi.cat]

I know you have to do something about it, because otherwise you'll never feel happy at that place and with every declawed cat it would feel like a little piece of your heart and confidence are dying...:(
I think I've read in another post that you use "soft paws" on your furkids and maybe that could be the way to educate the people and the vet, because you are living proof how nicely this works!!!

I've often witnessed that people who are unsure already ask the staff at the vet's for their opinion and so you could just add "Happy cats have their claws or "Soft Paws"!"...
I think it wouldn't work for your vet to show him anything about the cruelty of declawing, because he sees this mess each day and he even makes money with it!!!

Best thing would be to achieve to ban "declawing" nationwide...it's already illegeal in most parts of the world!!!

I am sorry to not know any further suggestions, but I know a brave heart knowing to do the right thing is very powerful...be cautious (not to loose your job), but live according to what your heart tells you!!!

Wishing you all the best,
Sabine and Nellie

[aly]

Oh geez. I don't think I could have controlled my mouth as well as you Kelly. I may have asked the vet if she would like me to amputate HER fingers :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The vet I go to for my animals is the only vet in my city that will not declaw under any circumstances. There are some others who only declaw if everything else has been tried. But I think a majority of the vet offices here don't have too much of a problem with the surgery. I think its disgusting and needs to change. Sometimes vets can be .... idiots, to put it mildly.

I hope you are able to find the strength to deal with this. Thats just awful :(

[Kona & Oreo's mom]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
"The vet here says he wouldn't have a cat that wasn't declawed." "The vet here says he's NEVER seen a cat with any sort of behavioral problems due to a declaw."...

The first thing my boss told me is that we are NOT allowed to give our advice or opinion to anyone. :(


It sounds like the vet gave his biased opinon, despite telling you not to share yours. :mad: How maddening.

I agree with bisi.cat--if you're not allowed to express the horrors of declawing, express your positive experiences with soft paws as an alternative. That way, you will be seen as contributing a positive outlook to the work environment.

[catland]

I'd recommend that you begin looking for another job. I think that it is just going to break your heart a little more each time you see another cat getting declawed.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.:(

[gini]

Oh Kelly, I feel for you. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't just about money - more surgery - more money.

I don't think that I like the vet you work for at all.

I have friends who have declawed their cats and both of them will bite so hard. They always say, "oh, they don't mean anything by doing that" - yeah, right as you sit there with your hand bleeding all over everything.

[Randi]

Originally posted by bisi.cat
I can feel your ANGER :mad: and I share your ANGER!!!:mad:

This is so very sad, because it's the vet who should show responsibility to the cats...I am strictly against declawing and I'm glad that it's illegeal here!!!

I know I would go frantic there...I think you should stay there (because you need a job) and try to find another job soon at a responsible vet if possible!!!

Oh this is such a sad and bad situation for you, but maybe you could suggest "Soft Paws" as an option to people who are uncertain...

Paws (with claws!!!) and fingers crossed here!!!
I couldn't have said it better!!

Kelly, how about printing out some info about declawing and put it up in malls, shops, schools, everywhere!! And use the vet's paper for it!!

[Russian Blue]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
I wonder if I could do anything about educating people and still keep my job????

What does the vet do when people bring in kittens? Is there a new kitten help package given out to new owners? When I brought Nakita in the first time to my vet, I was given a package and it gave different info on health issues and articles.

If your vet gives something like this, you could find some articles that discuss options to declawing so that new owners are presented with ALL the options rather than just the declaw option. If your vet doesn't have a package like this maybe you could suggest one. In this way you can educate people, but don't come across as a 'Crazy cat lady'. ;)

My heart goes out to you on this issue Kelly. It is horrible when no option except declaw is given by the vet. It's such a terrible situation to be in when you know that owners aren't educated and you can't say anything about the subject.

Though, every job has pros and cons. You just have to decide whether the pros outweigh the cons with this job.

Hang in there.

;)

[sasvermont]

First of all, I am not for declawing. I have had cats declawed in the past and do not regret it. I would not do it again, as I never knew how easy it is to train them to a scratching post. I have learned to clip their nails too.

I know that by now, half or more of you are ticked off just reading this. Let me tell you how I feel......

I could think of a lot worse of things to do to a cat. My cats (two) that we declawed, lived to be 21 and 18. I had them fully vetted. They were fine. I never had a behavior issue. All that said, I think I was so under educated about cats and their claws, that I did not see an alternative.

Education, education, education.

Kelly, I suspect you need to put this issue at the top of your interview list when going for your next position with a Vet or clinic. I suspect the Vets make a fair amount of money declawing cats, although it must vary from state to state, and place to place.

When I took Miley into the emergency vet when Ti had whipped her butt, there was a lady picking up her newly declawed kitty and I was so sad for the cat. The tech at the desk was totally comfortable with the entire process and in fact, was encouraging it and the process. It made me want to say something. I didn't. As I said, I could think of a lot worse of things to do to a cat.

My two deceased cats, were really loved, pampered, vetted, fed - you name it. I just didn't know. There is no excuse for ignorance, and so Kelly, if you really object to declawing, start to educate the Vet and the staff. If you get another job soon, you may want to take a lead on the topic..... run "how to clip" clinic or something.

I feel your pain, but don't be too harsh on those of us who just didn't know and don't know how to resolve the scratching problems with their cats.

I love cats. I am better educated now...about them....that is....but I still have much to learn. May people have much to learn.

Sas:rolleyes:

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by sasvermont
I feel your pain, but don't be too harsh on those of us who just didn't know and don't know how to resolve the scratching problems with their cats.
In my time here at PT, I've never, ever condemned ANYONE for declawing a cat because they didn't understand the alternatives or what it entailed. I sincerely hope that you don't feel I've ever done that to you or anyone....because its simply not true.

[sasvermont]

Kelly, I didn't mean that you, you Kelly, were being harsh...but when I read....."I was sick to my stomach the rest of the day. I'll have to deal with this, I guess. I just needed to vent here, to those that understand."...... It certainly would lead me to believe that folks who have their cats declawed, make you sick!

You need to find a job where you can take a stand, if it upsets you so. You have to do what makes you happy. I could not work for a vet that declawed. Not now. But that is me.

Did I offend you? I didn't mean to. I just wanted to let you know that there are people here, at Pet Talk, who have declawed their cats. Does that make them inhumane? No, and you didn't say that, but it is implied.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by sasvermont
Kelly, I didn't mean that you, you Kelly, were being harsh...but when I read....."I was sick to my stomach the rest of the day. I'll have to deal with this, I guess. I just needed to vent here, to those that understand."...... It certainly would lead me to believe that folks who have their cats declawed, make you sick!

You need to find a job where you can take a stand, if it upsets you so. You have to do what makes you happy. I could not work for a vet that declawed. Not now. But that is me.

Did I offend you? I didn't mean to. I just wanted to let you know that there are people here, at Pet Talk, who have declawed their cats. Does that make them inhumane? No, and you didn't say that, but it is implied.
Well, I'm sorry if what I've said was misintrepreted.

I have never, nor will I ever judge and condemn someone for choosing to declaw their cat if they have researched all options. That man at the vet yesterday wasn't to blaim...not at all. He trusted an expert regarding his precious kitties. I was sick because of the vet's attitude.

[NoahsMommy]

Game plan:

*I just emailed the assemblyman that submited the bill in West Hollywood that was passed in April to ban the declawing of cats in that entire city.

I plan to start my own little "war" on vets that don't educate...

I'm off to recruit some cat loving people I know to see if they'll help. :)

*I'm going to talk to my boss and see if I am able to at least add some sort of write up about Soft Paws to our kitten packets. I may even convince them it'll add some $$ to their pockets at $20 a box...

Thank you for all the wonderful ideas, guys!! :) You've lit a fire under me. ;)

[Cinder & Smoke]

I'm afraid that if you value your job with this Vet...
the Vet's position has been very clearly stated to you -
YOUR personal opinions, thoughts, and advice to Customers is NOT to be voiced.


Originally posted by NoahsMommy
:( :( :(
... "The first thing my boss told me is that
we are NOT allowed to give our advice or opinion to anyone." :(


You may want to attempt having another *private* conversation with the BOSS Vet;
but you've already tried that once...
"I went on and did my commercial for Soft Paws, but I really didn't have an audience. :( "

MY "read on this" is that the Vet's mind was made up a Long Time Ago - and will take an even longer time to change. Being a new employee, you sort of agreed to "follow the office rules" when you came on board. Seems an important "rule" will be voilated if you offer your Don't Declaw message to any customers.

One of the quickest ways to get into trouble with the BOSS will be when
a Customer tells the Vet "Your receptionist said ..." :eek:

Sadly, I think you're between a Rock and a Hard Spot. Good Luck with
whatever you decide to do. ;)

EDIT:
Just read your last post ~
Good Plan; but a word of caution!

Be very careful that you don't jump on your Soap Box *in the office*...
I predict the BOSS Vet will have a Zero Tolerance for it.

/s/ Phred

[sasvermont]

Kelly, your heart is in the right place.

You have an obligation to your employer, until such time as you do not. As I mentioned before, you may want to put that at the top of your list of questions to ask your next employer/boss. I suspect you will have to find a new job.

Good luck in your efforts.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
Game plan:
*I'm going to talk to my boss and see if I am able to at least add some sort of write up about Soft Paws to our kitten packets. I may even convince them it'll add some $$ to their pockets at $20 a box...


This was going to be my suggestion. If you can sit down with him and let him know how you are totally against it, and will certainly not try and disuade someone from declawing, but just want to offer options and a little education - and show him how it might make him money - and he might just relent a little. But most importantly, you have to try and talk to him without getting on a soapbox. You can't say that you see his point of view - but if you think about it from a vet's point of view, he makes money doing it, he has happy customers and also, when the cats come back for treatment he and his assistants are less likely to be hurt when treating the cats. Not that any of this is a reason to declaw a cat, but hopefully it'll help you see his point of view - no sense in both of you being totally blind to the other's side. ;)

It sounds like it might be tough, but if you temper your passion about it like you did this time, and try to find constructive ways to combat it instead of getting angry about it, you may just be able to make some progress and maybe even change his mind someday.

Good luck!

[sasvermont]

You know, I see your point about scrambling up a tree, but I have a feeling many more cats are hit by cars than eaten by coyotes.

I would love to see the humane societies put a clause in their paperwork and ads about not declawing cats. And also give lessons on how to clip nails! As far as I know, the humane societies are more worried about reproduction than anything else.

I would be more than willing to start a campaign around here, in Vermont, to discourage Vets from declawing. Someone needs to educate the cat owners. The Vets won't do it. At least many of them will not initiate a campaign to cut off their cash flow!

This is a good place to start.

[aly]

Whoa now. Lets not be too harsh on Kelly. She did mention that she tried to give her opinion and was hushed. She also said she tried to give the Soft Paws talk to her coworkers but was ignored. To me that seems like she is educating and not jumping to conclusions at all.

I also get sick to my stomach at the thought of declawing a cat. It doesn't mean I hate the person who did it or even that I judge him. After given the declaw info that they may or may have not known, and they still continue to declaw their cats, well ... thats when I lose some respect. But I've never blamed a person for ignorance to the facts. But thats not even the point here.

Kelly, do what you can. I think it is unacceptable for a vet to be uneducated about it. Most of them actually are educated but just want the money. So, I think it will be a REALLY hard thing to try to change your vet's mind. But that doesn't mean not to try. You fight for the voiceless and I'll back you up 100%, as I'm sure many others will.

[sasvermont]

No one here is faulting Kelly. Really. She is doing what she feels is right. She may not have a job in the near furture, at this Vet's office.

You guys need to come to grips with the fact that not everyone feels the same way you do about declawing cats. Yes, we agree about not declawing and yes, I think it is a great idea to educate folks about NOT declawing, but for some strange reason it has become a custom almost, to declaw here in the states. Why? Sure does beat me, but lets get real about this issue. It will take lots of energy and education to reverse it. I am willing to try - so if you want to get a group of folks together, then lets. The soap box is useless unless you are performing in front of the right audience. Your boss as your audience, I suspect, is pressing your luck a bit.

[moosmom]

Kelly,

I understand perfectly where you're coming from. If you need any help on my end about outlawing declawing, please let me know. I'd be happy to write letters. I'd LOVE to get it banned in Michigan. It seems that every yellow page ad for a vet you see encourages it!!!

I for one am totally against it. Yes, I had my first 2 cats declawed (over 8 years ago) and have regretted it every single day of my life. I'd never do it again either.

I think you might be better off at a different kind of job, Kelly. I also love working with animals and in fact, even thought of taking a course to get Vet Tech certified. Unfortunately, that would mean having to help in declawing procedures, AND keeping my big mouth shut when it comes to my opinion of it. Those are two things I could never do. So I chose another path and am very happy I did.

I had previously applied to the Michigan Humane Society. I am so glad they never called me back. It's much easier to walk away from a volunteer job at a shelter when you burn out than it is to walk away from a job that pays money.

Keep your chin up and do what you feel is best, regardless of what anyone else says. Afterall, it's your life and career. You have my sincere best wishes in whatever you do. I hope you know that ;)

[Logan]

Today, I spent quite a bit of time in the back room at my vet's office because our senior Lab, Murphy, was coming out of anesthesia and Helen and I were with her. In cages in that room were two kittens, one who had been declawed and one that was to be declawed. I never thought my vet did declawing. So I asked him about it. He said that he "must" do it because the alternative is worse. He said that he knew of too many situations where these cats become a nuisance to people and they are literally thrown out the door or sent to shelter because they shredded a piece of furniture. He said he always counsels people about the alternatives that are available. But that he will declaw (we didn't get into what procedure he uses), but he insists on keeping the cats with him for several days afterwards. He would rather medicate and watch them closely than send them home and have the chance of infection or pain. I can live with his response, especially since he discourages it as much as possible and offers alternatives.

That said, I have never declawed a cat of my own. I have also lost a lot more "stuff" to the puppies than I ever have because of the cats. But I have a member of my own family who has declawed every cat she has ever had. And they have lived long, happy lives, and have never stepped foot outside.

I see both sides, but Kelly, I can understand how upsetting it is for you to see it day in and day out. I saw it first hand tonight, but I'm glad Dr. Robinson was there to explain his side of things to me.

Best of luck to you. I hope you can find a way to deal with this situation and be happy in your new position.

Logan

[NoahsMommy]

I feel so emotionally drained...I know that may sound stupid, but I really am.

I almost got in trouble today for talking to a client about boarding cats!!! I don't understand it, am I not allowed to talk to them at all? Or only when it interferes with the vet getting money? (they board animals) We were just talking about how when our animals are boarded, they come home sick, that was it. She wasn't making a boarding appointment...it was just general cat talk.

Am I not allowed to have an opinion???? Gosh...this whole thing kind of sucks. :(

There was a point during the day where a mother and her two (well behaved) children brought in a 18 week old orangie on a harness. She was doing so well and even let me pet her while she was on the floor! The girls told me she bites a bit and I told them to give her a toy and walk away, that it would teach her not to bite. Well....I'm SURE I got a look for that too.

I just don't get it. I have to not talk at all?? People LIKE talking about their pets.

I understand it could come back in the form of "but your receptionist said..." But am I saying bad things? I'm not being defiant, its how I would talk to anyone with a cat, dog, rat, etc.

Forgive me for rambling...I'm really confused. I need this job badly, but is it worth my sanity? Can I shut my mouth? Or, is this yet, ANOTHER one of my principle issues, like my last job?

[IttyBittyKitty]

Originally posted by sasvermont


I could think of a lot worse of things to do to a cat. My cats (two) that we declawed, lived to be 21 and 18. I had them fully vetted. They were fine. I never had a behavior issue. All that said, I think I was so under educated about cats and their claws, that I did not see an alternative.

Education, education, education.

Sas:rolleyes:

Well said, Sas! There are people out there who love and care for their cats. This vet needs to be giving them OPTIONS not just a $$ solution. A lot of those people who are now getting the procedure done for their cats may possibly regret it later when the cat becomes depressed, starts biting, or they simply realise how much of a loss it can be for the cat.

Regardless of Kelly's opinion and the Vet's opinion, animal owners need to have a CHOICE.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
I feel so emotionally drained...I know that may sound stupid, but I really am.

Forgive me for rambling...I'm really confused. I need this job badly, but is it worth my sanity? Can I shut my mouth? Or, is this yet, ANOTHER one of my principle issues, like my last job?

Kelly,

You don't want to make yourself ill, working yourself up about things that can't be change.
I think you should start looking for another job asap.

Enviroment is so important in your life. Why spend 50% of your waking hours somewhere where you can't express your opinions. IMO sticking to your principles is a good reason to change jobs.

I agree with SAS, asking about Declawing issues at your next interview, is the way to go.

Sending hugs and positive thoughts your way.

As they say when a door closes.......Hopefully a window is opening up today.

Love Jenny

Waiting for the day that USA makes Declawing illegal, like it is in so many countries all over the world.

[Tonya]

I plan to start my own little "war" on vets that don't educate...

I think that's the ticket right there. So many people (including myself in the past) have no idea what they are doing to their cats. It should be mandated that the doctors explain exactly what they are doing and provide the patient with other options.

I must say I've gotten lucky. My childhood cats were all declawed as well as one of the cats I have now. (She was already declawed when I adopted her.) They all lead normal happy lives. On the same line, there's lots of human amputees that lead normal happy lives too. That doesn't mean the amputee likes missing limbs.

[NoahsMommy]

I'm home on a lunch break and wanted to let you know what my boss told me when I asked WHAT I was ALLOWED to talk about with clients.

She said I can say anything I wanted, just as long as it wasn't medically related. I forgot that I spoke with that woman about that vaccination causing cancer thing...you know, at the shot points? It was something one of our vets mentioned regarding the drawbacks of indoor cat vaccination and SHE brought it up to me. I guess I was supposed to say, "Oh, I don't know, you should ask the vet about that when you see him." Which, I DO understand...its kind of a theory still.

So, my day has gone MUCH better today. I feel much more confident with what I'm allowed to talk about and what I'm not. I needed boundries, I think.

I'll update you all more later, gotta get back. :)

Thanks so much for all your support. :)

[catland]

The "medically related" thing makes sense. They could think that your words are the doctors words and there could be trouble with liability issues.

I'm glad your day is going better.:)

[Kirsten]

Kelly, I can understand your pain and anger very well; I couldn't stand that either! :( It must be hard to see these things happening day by day and you have to keep your mouth shut because you depend on your job!

Besides, I really don't understand why the practice of declawing is still allowed in so many parts of the world. It's an amputation, and it's cruel and painful, period!

Here in Germany, it's illegal to declaw cats, so we happily wear our scars from happy cats with claws! :)

I was thinking... Maybe we could all (ehm, well, all of us who are against it) start an anti-declawing campaign on the net and make it public, especially in countries that still allow declawing. People should realize what it really means, it's like removing the first bone from your finger!

Kirsten

[NoahsMommy]

Thanks again everyone for your comments, I just read them again and wanted to thank you for your ideas, opinions and support. :)

I knew you would all understand what I was feeling.

The worst part was/is the emphasis they place on declawing. It shouldn't be something standard...which it is there. :( That, and the lack of education/options given to the clients of these poor cats.

We had a lady bring her cat in for a declaw because "the Soft Paws kept coming off" :rolleyes: Hello??? Do YOUR nails grow? Do YOUR nails break???? :rolleyes: People are so stupid.... :mad: But then, at least she tried, so I guess I can't be too mad...its more than most the others even think about.

I think I'm going to stay there. I can deal with it. I think it'll charge my desire to get it outlawed... ;)

Shhhh....don't tell my employer!!! ha ha