Some Bad News [Archive]

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 12:46 AM

This should probably go in the dog house. I have been crying all day. I just don't know what I'm going to do.

I have been talking to the Vet, and my aunt who is a zoologist/vet, and the Blue Heeler Refuge. It looks as though Casey has to go there.

Blue Heelers are very smart. They are herders and need something to do at all times. If they don't have this...ie. cattle to herd on a huge ranch, then they become unhappy...which leads to destruction.

Casey has been tearing the house apart. He thrashed the kitchen and knocked over 3 glass jars all across the kitchen. He has also torn the yard apart. He has been terrorizing the kids latey, too. Not agressive, but just niping and not leaving them alone. He refuses to respond to any kind of obediance. He will sit and lay down, and pee outside....but anything beyond that is a no go.

According to everyone I've talked to, he's unhappy with the living space, and this is his way of telling us. I read it's normal for the breed. They need a ranch with jobs to do.

I am just torn to shreds over this. I love him so much. But I can't keep him here if he's going to be like this....and it's not healthy for him

I feel like a mother abandoning her child, but I can't keep him here if it's not the best possible envoirnment for him.:(

In sadness,
Crystal

binka_nugget

07-11-2003, 12:50 AM

Oh I'm so sorry...it must be really hard on you. Don't feel guilty, you're only doing what's best for him. Your intentions are to ensure his happiness. But, have you tried everything? Maybe hobby herding will balance him out? Or maybe agility or flyball? Anyways, whatever you do, good luck.

GoldenRetrLuver

07-11-2003, 12:50 AM

Im so sorry.....do you know anyone that could give Casey a good home?:( . If you really dont think hes happy....the destructiveness could be because hes still a puppy. Why dont you wait awhile and see if that clears up? :(

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 12:54 AM

I have found a Blue Heeler Refuge Farm. They take heelers so they can be with their kind, and worked, and placed with other ranchers.

The vet's I have talked to and the research I have done all points to him not being stimulated enough. I have to take him to the Bark Park every day for at least 2 hours before he will even begin to calm down. If I miss a day the house is a shambles.

CathyBogart

07-11-2003, 01:12 AM

Oh NO, I am so sorry! It does sound as you say....He's not getting enough stimulation. I don't know your home situation so I don't know if this would be feasible, but...my friend breeds a high-drive herding dog and she keeps a hoarde of six under control by doing agility with them. I would hate to see you lose your beloved baby... :(

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 01:27 AM

*sigh*

I am just so upset I don't know what to say.

tikeyas_mom

07-11-2003, 02:11 AM

I am so sorry that you feel it nessisary to do this, but if it is best, then it is best. I have a friend who owns a heeler a bluish colored one but I think it is a mix with border collie, this dog doesnt act like a heeler at all or a border collie but looks just like them. I think that he just has the herding instinct, some pups dont and that makes them not working or show quality! I hope that he finds a good home.

GoldenRetrLuver

07-11-2003, 02:16 AM

Psst....TM, i like your "Adopt a husky, and make a husky smile" icon, its really cute! :D

lovemyshiba

07-11-2003, 08:13 AM

Oh what terrible news!!!

My friend has an ACD, an he is tireless--he runs and runs and runs and runs--I'm sure just like your Casey!!

I know you have talked to the refuge farm and the vet, but maybe speak with a trainer. Has Casey had basic obedience?? Maybe he just needs a tune up on his manners, and you could look into doing agility or something with him??
Is there any way he could go to a farm every day or so to get his "work" done, and still come home with you??

This is heartbreaking news, I can only imagine how you feel. I do understand that you are trying to do what is best for him though, good luck.

Airedalekisses

07-11-2003, 08:17 AM

You're not a bad mother-heaven forbid!! Casey is just a free spirit-he'll be happier-and I bet you can visit-before you know it he'll be smiling and romping having a fabulous time!
Good luck:D

micki76

07-11-2003, 09:36 AM

Oh, I understand the pain of having to do what’s right. We recently rescued a Pit/Lab mix named Bruce from some people who were going to fight him. We tried to keep him but Millie was so terrified and stressed out that she chewed her hind end raw from mid back down. We finally got a call from the SPCA saying that they had room and were willing to take Bruce. It killed me to let him go there and await the potentially awful things that could be in his future, but I had to do it. I was in a fairly deep depression for some time and still am to an extent. I still have bad dreams about him. :(

Our neighbors had an unusual heeler in that Rambo was a lazy brat who never left the couch. :) He was let out of the front door one day by their young son and was hit by a car. They soon replaced him with another heeler, Brandy. She’s very destructive and disobedient. They can’t have her in the house due to destructiveness and she’s now in a smallish pen. I don’t think it’s fair to her and I’d much rather that they re home her to a more appropriate environment.

So try not to feel bad about your decision. We all have to do things that suck from time to time. :(

anna_66

07-11-2003, 09:36 AM

How sad for you:( But I totally understand that you are doing what is best for Casey & for you and your family. It's just not easy though is it?
I'm here if you need to talk.
Anna

cali

07-11-2003, 10:12 AM

have you tried dogsports??? casey is just bored thats all, give him a job and he will be happy, try flyball or agility with him, take him to playgrounds and get him to do different things on the play structures, all he needs is a job, they are the same as border collies that way, without a job they will make one themselves, casey is bored with no job, so destroying the house is what he has come up with on his own for a job.

Karen

07-11-2003, 10:29 AM

This is not an easy decision, I know. A Cattle Dog is a breed, as you've mentioned, that needs to be busy. If, after serious reflection, you know you don't have the time and capability to harness his energy, the time to work with him every day, to reinforce socialization every day, and keep him busy and happy, the heeler ranch might be a better place for him to be.

Would you be allowed to visit him? How far from you is it? Maybe as someone mentioned, he could "work" there and come home, tired and happy, to be with you afterwards? Or, is there a good "doggie daycare" near you where he could spend time running and playing and getting worn out while you work each day?

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 11:32 AM

Ok...

Here is am example of what he is doing. I woke up to a horrible sound last night. I saw him chewing on the walls! He was literally chewing on the door frame!

I take him to the dog park every day. We have to stay for at least a couple of hours. Then when a lot of dogs are there, none of the other dogs want to play with him because he get's dominate and tries to herd them.

I have tried obedience training...nothing. Eric has a freind who trains border collies for his sisters cattle ranch...even he says we have our hands full. But he's no help to me becuase he just sits and watches me struggle with Casey (and he's no friend of mine, but that's another story)

It's getting to where I have to put him out back if I even want a moment's peace just to drink my coffee.
He chews everything in site...shoes, clothes, toys, ect. He goes thorugh about 5 rawhyde and pig bones a week, and has already shredded a BLACK Kong!

ramanth

07-11-2003, 11:47 AM

Do you crate him?

Kia is a Husky/Cattle Dog mix and she has to be crated when I'm not home or else she becomes destructo puppy.

I know you're faced with a hard decision and one that is not easily made. :( But I know deep down, you'll know what is best.

But I just wanted to add that Karen made some good suggestions. :)

Best of luck to you.

primabella

07-11-2003, 11:59 AM

Im sorry about this sad news. You need to do what is best for Casey. I know when my family picked up Primo, a collie mix, we thought he was the right dog for us. We were all acting on impulse and had to bring him to the shelter. I still feel terrible about it, and it's been over a year it happened. Our yard was too small for him and the "breeder" lied to us about everything. She said he was 4 months old. Impossible. He held his pee all night, was already obediant and was already huge. He also had a huge scar on his back that the "breeder" told us would heal naturally. I'm sure he was adopted, as he was a beauty and a very sweet dog, but I still can't forgive myself.

A bit off-topic, sorry. What I was trying to say was that we couldn't keep him because he was too big a dog for us. I didn't want to make him miserable. :( Same thing with Casey. You need to do what's best for him. I can't even imagine the pain you must be going through but I do know that by doing this for Casey, it'll be what's best for him.

As been mentionned, maybe you can see Casey on occasional visits. Good luck.

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 12:19 PM

Right now, I'm in a holding pattern because I can't get the Refuge to call me back. Perhaps it's a sort of "waiting period" I don't know.

I'm going to be taking a trip to LA at the beginning of the month and I have to take him with me if I still have him. That's going ot be hell on him I think.

Rottieluver45

07-11-2003, 12:21 PM

I sort of know what you`re going through! I`m so sorry :( I hope you don`t have to give him up!

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 02:27 PM

I have an update...

A lovely lady called me from the country. She is looking for Blue Heelers. Her and her husband are ranchers, and their last blue heeler of like 10 years just died 6 months ago. After greiving and sobbing for 6 months, they have decided they are ready for more. I began crying on the phone with her and she sent me a long letter on what Casey's life would be like with them. she says Blue Heelers are their life. She also says she is getting him a buddy.

Here is the letter:

"I hope this reassures you somewhat that Casey would be a busy, well cared for and loved family member.
got to thinking after our telephone conversation this evening and wanted to outline a day in the life of Cheyene, our previous Queensland.

Monday through Friday her day started about 5:00 AM when she went to work with Steve. Going to work was the biggest part of her day and the most loved as she knew that each day brought a new adventure in that Steve works various farmgrounds in the Monterey County area. For the most part she and Steve worked an area from 1 day to a month, depending on the size of the job. Steve would come home in the evening with stories to tell about what Cheyene chased and what she may have caught and played with that day (mostly rabbits). Occasionally she would find a friend (another dog) and they would rom and scour the countryside together in search of treasures. More often than not, by the time Cheyene came home from work she would be so "dog tired" from having "worked" all day that she would climb into her dog house (in the garage) not wanting to be bothered and too tired to play anymore (I usually wanted her to play with me after I came home from work). I could always tell how hard she "worked" by the amount of dirt in her nose and dirt clods on her belly and in between her toes!! Dog tired as she was, if Steve needed to hop back into the pickup to go somewhere, she was always ready - all he had to do was shake his keys. The next morning she was up and ready to go again, afraid she might miss something if she didn't get out of her bed and hop in the truck. On the weekends (at times consisting of just 1 day), the pickup never left that she was not in it. She went everywhere Steve went, whether it was to work or the grocery store, post office, etc. We took her to the beach and she would be full of sand and stink from rolling in anything dead she could find (frisbee was her game of choice on the beach). At times we would take her shopping at PetSmart where she would scour the isles looking for a new "squeaky toy." We took her to all the 4-H fairs - we never left her with anyone. She went everywhere we went or we didn't go. She was spoiled to say the least. As we aquired her at 5 weeks (they should have kept her until she was 8-10 weeks - better for Queenslands I've read), she always knew the inside of the house was off limits. She was deathly afraid of gun shots and fire crackers, so she never went hunting when Steve did go, and we had to really comfort her during 4th of July fireworks as she would tremble with fear. That was the only time she was ever allowed in the house where she laid on a blanket by my side of the bed. She didn't like coming in the house as that was the way she was trained, so I usually had to carry her to my room during the 4th. With her coming home muddy a lot of the time from work, it would have been impossibe to bathe her every night in order for her to come into the house and sleep in our bed, not to mention that she didn't like baths). She always had a clear view though to inside the house where she would lay and watch us as she was guarding the back yard. She would usually be in her dog house asleep before we hit the hay. She also had a seat on the back of Steve's quadrunner where she rode when we went to Hollister Hills (motorcycle trails). She had a favorite stop where she would jump into the pond there and bring us back the stick we would throw out. She was our baby and she was very much a part of our family. When she died Steve litterally sobbed. He loved her so as she did him. I just wanted you and her previous owner to know that Cheyene loved her life just the way it was and so I understand your feelings regarding what Casey has been used, and wanted you both to know that we fully understand your wanting to choose a home where she is allowed in the house and can see that Casey would think it strange that she wasn't allowed in since she has been raised that way I just wanted to convey to you what life would have been like for her, and one I believe she would have truly enjoyed except for the fact that she wouldn't have been a house dog. Best of luck to you both. "

Well, I'm sorry this is long...what do you all think??? They live a good 4 hours away and I probably won't see him much, except in pictures.

I gotta go...I'm going to go cry.

Crystal:(

catland

07-11-2003, 02:59 PM

That's so wonderful. I think they could give Casey a wonderful life. This thread promted me to look for other info on blue heelers and they definately are dogs that need a very busy life like this.

I know you will be sad and miss him - but I don't know if you could have found a better home - these people sound just great.

tikeyas_mom

07-11-2003, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
Psst....TM, i like your "Adopt a husky, and make a husky smile" icon, its really cute! :D hee hee it looks like Tikeya doesnt it?? !! I thought so ;).

micki76

07-11-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom

Well, I'm sorry this is long...what do you all think??? They live a good 4 hours away and I probably won't see him much, except in pictures.

I gotta go...I'm going to go cry.

Crystal:(

What do I think? What do I think? I think I want to go live there with them!!!!! Sounds like a fantastic place for him. :D I'm tentatively doing a happy dance. :)

binka_nugget

07-11-2003, 04:54 PM

I think they sound like wonderful people. I'm sure Casey would be happy there seeing as how busy he would be. Keep us updated...good luck!

Cataholic

07-11-2003, 08:47 PM

My and my opinions...but, I say look elsewhere...I don't like a house where an animal isn't welcome. Something about the email letter sounds a little off to me. :(

lizbud

07-11-2003, 09:27 PM

Ah, just at the last minute.....a home in the country.Where he
will live happily ever after. He'll even have a friend doggie to
enjoy this paradise with him. How perfect.Sounds like a made
for TV movie to me. I don't believe a word of it. Just be honest
and do whatever it is you were going to do, without all the
phony drama, o.k. Geeeze. :rolleyes:

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by lizbud
Ah, just at the last minute.....a home in the country.Where he
will live happily ever after. He'll even have a friend doggie to
enjoy this paradise with him. How perfect.Sounds like a made
for TV movie to me. I don't believe a word of it. Just be honest
and do whatever it is you were going to do, without all the
phony drama, o.k. Geeeze. :rolleyes:

Oh man, that's harsh.

Now I REALLY don't know what to do.

As far as not being welcome in the house, she did tell me that they converted their garage into a "dog house" by carpeting it and making it their own. She daid they don't use the garage for their cars. She also said the dogs are allowed into the house on the 4th of july's.

why else would they want him? Why would they make up such an elaborate lie? To sacrafice him or something? I just don't know why they would like like that, then drive 5 hours to come and get him.

I will ask them for pictures of their

Twisterdog

07-11-2003, 10:38 PM

Blue Heelers are very smart. They are herders and need something to do at all times. If they don't have this...ie. cattle to herd on a huge ranch, then they become unhappy...which leads to destruction ... According to everyone I've talked to, he's unhappy with the living space, and this is his way of telling us. I read it's normal for the breed. They need a ranch with jobs to do.

I'm sorry to be critical, I know this is a difficult time for you, but I have to say something about this. You are drawing vast generalizations about the ACD breed - generalizations which are NOT true in the majority of cases. Yes, they are smart dogs. Yes, they like to have a "job" to do. However, it is NOT true that the "job" HAS to be "cattle to herd on a huge ranch". Their "job" can be guarding the yard, playing ball with a child, learning agility or flyball. My ACD, Queenie, has lived as a house dog with us for almost nine years. Her "job" is chasing a tennis ball and guarding the yard from people passing by on the sidewalk. She's never even seen a cow. There are literally tens of thousands of ACDs living perfectly happy lives as house pets with active family in cities and suburbs. To generalize that this breed is ONLY happy on ranch is wrong and unfair.

Having owned, rescued and trained ACDs for many years, I have to say that your dog's behavior - while certainly not unheard - is also certainly not the norm for the breed. There is something else going on there beside just the fact that your dog is an ACD. Have you had a vet check with a complete blood panel, to start with? If you want to try it, put your dog in flyball or agility. It works wonders - obedience on a leash is NOT enough activity for an ACD. There ARE ways to entertain and busy an ACD without him living on a ranch, obviously, because a LOT of families keep them as pets.

I have to agree with Cataholic about the letter. I find this particularly heartbreaking ... "always had a clear view though to inside the house where she would lay and watch us as she was guarding the back yard." The dog couldn't come in because she was muddy, so she had to watch her family from outside? And that is supposed to be comforting and reassuring? Me personally, I wouldn't place one of my rescue dogs here.

CattleDogMom

07-11-2003, 10:45 PM

Well, yes, I have had all of the medical stuff done. It was done the week before we brought him home from the Vet hospital. My father is a horse rancher and has ACD's and he agrees that my place is just to darn small.

I have done alot of research on ACD's myself.

Also, flyball or agility stuff....anything that costs money to put him in is a no go for us, as we are an extreemly poor family, and I can't afford that stuff. At any rate, I havn't even seen that kind of stuff around here, and I have looked at all the local pet suppley stores, vet's ect. My best friend is his Vet...she wouldn't steer me wrong.

Cinder & Smoke

07-11-2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
My father is a horse rancher and has ACD's and
he agrees that my place is just to darn small.

Doesn't "Dad" have a spot on the Horse Ranch for an extra
*Horse Herder* ??

Twisterdog

07-11-2003, 11:11 PM

Well, yes, I have had all of the medical stuff done. It was done the week before we brought him home from the Vet hospital.

How long ago was that? If it has been a while, he may have developed something recently.

My father is a horse rancher and has ACD's and he agrees that my place is just to darn small.

It's not the size of the place. I have a small house, a small yard and ten dogs. It's the amount of time, stimulation and activity the dog gets. You can keep an ACD in a studio apartment if you spend enough time stimulating and exercising it.

anything that costs money to put him in is a no go for us, as we are an extreemly poor family, and I can't afford that stuff.

You could find out umpteen zillion pages of information on the internet for free, and do your own stuff. Tennis balls are cheap. Also, I think I saw that you have kids, right? Most areas have 4-H, which is very low cost or even free, and they usually have a dog club.

But, having said all that .... I can tell you have made up your mind and are done. I hope you can find your dog a good home. I seriously would re-think the people who are going to keep him outside, just MHO. I'd recomend placing your dog with a reputable ACD rescue, where his temperment and requirements can be evaluated by an experienced foster home BEFORE placement with a family. NO reputable rescue places a dog site-unseen with a family that won't let it come inside. If you would like me to get you some rescue contacts for good ACD rescues, just let me know.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Twisterdog
How long ago was that? If it has been a while, he may have developed something recently.

It's not the size of the place. I have a small house, a small yard and ten dogs. It's the amount of time, stimulation and activity the dog gets. You can keep an ACD in a studio apartment if you spend enough time stimulating and exercising it.

You could find out umpteen zillion pages of information on the internet for free, and do your own stuff. Tennis balls are cheap. Also, I think I saw that you have kids, right? Most areas have 4-H, which is very low cost or even free, and they usually have a dog club.

But, having said all that .... I can tell you have made up your mind and are done. I hope you can find your dog a good home. I seriously would re-think the people who are going to keep him outside, just MHO. I'd recomend placing your dog with a reputable ACD rescue, where his temperment and requirements can be evaluated by an experienced foster home BEFORE placement with a family. NO reputable rescue places a dog site-unseen with a family that won't let it come inside. If you would like me to get you some rescue contacts for good ACD rescues, just let me know.

First off, I feel like I'm sort of being attacked and judged by you. I HAVN"T made my mind up yet.

Second, these are people who have raised Blue Heelers for many years, and it was A Heeler Rescue that put us in touch.

Third, his last vet visit was approx 4 weeks ago. I am a people nurse, and I can tell you I am prety well qualified to know when something is physically wrong or not. Granted things in animals may be different, but like I said, his VetDr is my best friend, don't you think she is just a phone call away for me?

In all honesty, I don't believe I can do it.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 01:11 AM

Also, I wanted to add....

I am now getting anonomous emails from people telling me if I "want to ensure my pet's safety" I will charge them $50 bucks.

Since it is anonomous, I am not accusing anyone here...but just in case it is someone here, please stop. Things are hard enough as it is for me.

micki76

07-12-2003, 09:14 AM

Everyone is being very harsh. In their defense, they're only doing this because they care about what happens to Casey. I think you have to do what's right for your family, but they want to make sure you do what's right for Casey, too. Everyone's just very concerned for him.

Regarding the emails, it is a good idea to ask for and adoption fee to ward off predators. Many dog fighters and other bad people will respond to "free" dogs for bait and such. Just an FYI.

Good luck to you, your family and Casey and keep us updated, please.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 12:56 PM

I understand this, but I don't have any "free dogs" ads up.

ramanth

07-12-2003, 01:37 PM

I ask again.... Do you crate Casey?

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by ramanth
I ask again.... Do you crate Casey?

Ok, what exactly is "crate"

My dog roams around the house and yard with us at all times as if he were a kid. He is not trained very well on being without his leash so in th front/public he is always on a leash with a family member.

If crate is what I think it is, it doesn't sound like something I would want to do with my dog.

zippy-kat

07-12-2003, 02:02 PM

Link = Crating Your Dog (http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/crating.html)

What Is Crating?
A crate is a portable "kennel" that is just large enough to contain the dog it is intended for, made of either metal or plastic. "Crating" is the practice of using this kennel for training purposes, usually in housetraining and houseproofing a dog

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Link = Crating Your Dog (http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/crating.html)

Oh yes, I have seen people do this. I have never been interested in crating. He is very potty trained, and I just can see how locking a dog up teaches them things. It's apersonal thing I guess, stemming from when my mom used to lock me in my room .

lovemyshiba

07-12-2003, 03:01 PM

If Casey has always been able to do what he wants, that's probably why he's so crazy now.
Crating dogs is a very humane way of keeping them out of trouble. If Abbey had been crated the other night, she wouldn't have chewed up my husband's cell phone.
I can only imagine what the house would look like if my 3 had the run of it while we were at work:eek:

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 03:13 PM

OK...let's clear up some miscommunication:

I don't let Casey do what he wants or let him run wild. I just have never seen the point in locking them up in a small cage. He does get time outs. He knows when he has done wrong. It just doesn't stick with him.

At any rate, the people that want to adopt him told me to take time in making my decision and will understand if I say no. I feel that they have been very respectfull and reasonable. They have sent me a picture of their farm, and yes, while I'm sure it could all be one big elaborate lie, I just can't see why an older couple whould do all of that and then drive 5 hours to get him AND offer to keep in contact with me so I can see Casey's progress.

I will withdrawl and meditate and try to figure out what is best for HIM regardless of what our feelings might be.

Aspen and Misty

07-12-2003, 04:20 PM

How old is Cassey? Is s/he spayed or nueterd???

Ash

shais_mom

07-12-2003, 04:36 PM

Keegan is 'very potty trained' also, but if I left her out for the whole time I was at work, I would have very little left in my house, she would destroy it, simply b/c she is still a puppy. We are working on keeping her out for short intervals, but crate training your dog is an asset, not a punishment.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
How old is Cassey? Is s/he spayed or nueterd???

Ash

Casey id 6 months old and was neutered at 4 months. Now I know he is just a puppy. I realize he is just a baby, which is why I'm trying to hold on until maybe he will outgrow it and calm down.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by shais_mom
Keegan is 'very potty trained' also, but if I left her out for the whole time I was at work, I would have very little left in my house, she would destroy it, simply b/c she is still a puppy. We are working on keeping her out for short intervals, but crate training your dog is an asset, not a punishment.

I am home with Casey all day. If I have to go somewhere, he goes with us. He is NEVER alone.

Cincy'sMom

07-12-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by shais_mom
but crate training your dog is an asset, not a punishment.

I totally agree with this. Our dogs go very willingly into their crates. They do not feel they are being punished at all, ot I don't think they would run in, tail wagging.

My parents dogs also enjoy their crates, esp., their older dogs. They will go into them and lay down whenthe younger pups are getting to be too much.

Even at Dayschool, where we take our dogs to play, they are put into crates twice a day. This is not a punishment, but with 50 dogs playing for 8 hours a day, they need a break. It helps give every one a time out anda chance to relax....playing is toughin work :)

shais_mom

07-12-2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
I am home with Casey all day. If I have to go somewhere, he goes with us. He is NEVER alone.

Then you have a luxury that alot of people don't have which is why crate training is such a good tool. Yes, there are some dogs that never see the inside of a crate and are just fine, but others need it. The biggest thing that people say about crates is that the dog thinks that it is their den and they need a place like that. Not saying that some dogs freak out in a crate, some just don't like it either.
Keegan doesn't mind it for the most part, but she is only in her's when I am not there, usually.

shais_mom

07-12-2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
Ok...

Here is am example of what he is doing. I woke up to a horrible sound last night. I saw him chewing on the walls! He was literally chewing on the door frame!

It's getting to where I have to put him out back if I even want a moment's peace just to drink my coffee.
He chews everything in site...shoes, clothes, toys, ect. He goes thorugh about 5 rawhyde and pig bones a week, and has already shredded a BLACK Kong!
If he is exhibiting this behaivor while you are sleeping, crating him sounds like a good way to stop it.
Cattle dogs need a job to do, and herding and being on a ranch is great for them. But I don't agree with the dog being outside, I came from a family that only had outside dogs, and I wouldn't have one now. If they are truly a part of the family, they need to be included as such.

I do wish you luck in your decision, I know that your heart is breaking. Please accept my apologies.

GoldenRetrLuver

07-12-2003, 07:45 PM

I think crating seems like a good idea. Its not a horrible thing to do for dogs. Im sure it will help some. Good Luck. :)

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 08:42 PM

I have seen these crates at PetCo. About how much do they cost.? I will try it. Also, I don't know if this is the right thing to do, but I have been getting up with Casey every morning about 3AM to take him pee pee and poo poo. Like getting up to change a newborn diapper, right? My mate says I shouldn't let him get used to this.

Second, I agree with the staying outside thing not being good because that's when Casey is at his calmest, at night when the whole family in in the room watching a movie and he likes to lay with us, and also he sleeps with me all snuggely, and I think he needs that.

This couple did tell me to take as long as I need and they would not contact me until I contact them after I have made my decision. I must give them credit on respecting my need for time and space and all of that.

But I look at Casey and I CRY! He looks at me like, "I'm sorry Mamma, I'll try harder" and then I say "I CAN'T DO IT!"

or maybe I'm so stressed by this that my mind is playing tricks on me.

binka_nugget

07-12-2003, 08:58 PM

I think that's very wise of you to be willing to try. Our crate cost about 50 dollars (canadian). It shouldn't cost more than 100 for you since Casey isn't a giant or anything. If you search ebay or some other places for used ones, you might be able to find a good deal on one.

About the potty thing, whatever works for you and Casey I guess. Kai goes out when I wake up. Sometimes, at 5am and other times at 2pm. Kai's very reliable in the house. We have a crate for him to eat in and go in if he needs to calm down or something. I've used it to punish him (in a way) by excluding him when he did something really naughty. I've also used it for good things like giving treats and playing with his toys in there. He goes in at his own will now.

Try everything you can before seperating with Casey. I know you said that obedience doesn't really work with you two but maybe try mixing it with some fun? Kai will very rarely 'down' on command but he'll ALWAYS go 'find ashley' or 'find nathan'. I figured that he'd always do the hide and seek thing rather than down because it's more enjoyable. It also calms him down on rainy days when I'd rather not walk outside. When I can't physically exhaust Kai, I mentally exhaust him. Never fails.

HoRsELUvR

07-12-2003, 09:01 PM

good luck with your dog.i hope the crate works.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 09:44 PM

I CAN'T DO IT!

I just can't. I can't give up on him after I nursed him back to health when he had NO ONE. I'm all he has. And, other than the jerk that abandoned him, I am all he knows.

I am looking at crates. I know if I stick with him he will be the greatest dog when he isn't such a baby anymore.

Regards, Crystal

Karen

07-12-2003, 09:48 PM

Oh good! Any doggie daycares near you? Maybe he'd like to be trained as a Therapy Dog, and visit schools, nursing homes and hospitals? Agility classes/teams nearby?

Give that dog a job! :D And a nice crate to rest in - maybe Kim can tell you where she got Kia's, as Kia and Casey are probably similar in size ...

Cookiebaker

07-12-2003, 10:03 PM

Casey's only 6 months old and still a puppy. You can't expect that he's going to suddenly KNOW everything, he needs to be TAUGHT. And that takes lots & lots of time and energy. (I know I have a 1 year old. I'm still in the process). Don't give up on him. It DOES get better.

I for one, would have gone loony a long time ago without the crate. I was against it at first, because I didn't think it was humane to cramp up a dog's life. But I found that it gave me total & complete piece of mind that I knew where Malone was, and that he wasn't getting into trouble. And also, we put effort into teaching Malone new things so that his mind was stimulated everyday. He is still naughty sometimes, but he's still a puppy.

Also, I read in your first few posts that you didn't think that puppy classes were doing much good. Take them again. And again. And again. This August we are headed back into beginning classes for the second time. Malone STILL doesn't have it down pat. But we keep working with him, and trust that the end result will work out.

Best of Luck with Casey. And I mean that! Work with him everyday, and when you get frustrated put it aside for 15 minutes. And then pick up again.

kingrattus

07-12-2003, 10:04 PM

I'm 100% with the crating idea. It did wonders for Max. Max was a puppy terror, chewed everything he saw, even while we were there. Dad bought a metal crate (we called it a kennel), & every time we were gone he was either in it or locken in the kitchen with his kennel. At night he was always in it. We never fed him in it. & for the first few years he loved it, it was his home. After 1 year he was never locked up in it, he slept in there on his own, & if he got in doo doo, we told him to go to his kennel & he did & stayed there for awhile.

We only took the kennel away when he was too big for it. The pet store said he would be about 30 pounds & well he grew to 80 pounds & the kennel was for a med dog, not a large. Now he has his own couch/chair (depends where hes sleeping at)

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 10:23 PM

Well, I havn't put him in any classes because the only guy around here wants $150 per class! HOLY COW! So I had bought a bunch of used dog training bookd for dummies from ebay and read them and am trying to do it myself. Is that bad?

OH! I just snapped this a few minutes ago.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p4426b365d37b2b98c8ecc5f5d75df417/fbb07e2e.jpg

and, I just bought this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2334831828

is this what you all were talking about?

Karen

07-12-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
Well, I havn't put him in any classes because the only guy around here wants $150 per class! HOLY COW! So I had bought a bunch of used dog training bookd for dummies from ebay and read them and am trying to do it myself. Is that bad?

Well, keep looking, as Sacramento's a big city ... a "class" has the added value of socialization with other dogs. Call the local Humane Society, and ask your vet, too, if they know of any classes ...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p4426b365d37b2b98c8ecc5f5d75df417/fbb07e2e.jpg

What a great picture! :)

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 10:49 PM

I'm not in Sacramento...I'm in a small town called Roseville about an hour away going toward Reno.

I take him to the Bark Park everyday to try to get some socialization in. He does very well, he does best when other herding dogs are there. He does NOT like Labs, though, for some odd reason.

Twisterdog

07-12-2003, 10:49 PM

First off, I feel like I'm sort of being attacked and judged by you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad ... but I tend to call them like I see them. I seemed to me that whenever anyone suggested something to try, you had a reason ready as to why it wouldn't work, or that you'd already tried it, or that you couldn't afford it, etc. Just seemed to me that you really didn't want help and suggestions after all, since you seemed to be shooting down every suggestion without even giving it a thought first.

I also missed it the first time, I suppose, that your dog is only six months old. (Probably a good thing I did! ;) ) Six months old is right in the middle of the rebellious teenage stage dogs go through ... just like a sixteen year old kid. Almost ALL dogs act up at that age!

I'm glad to see you are willing to try crating. You can find used crates at yard sales almost any weekend for $5 - $10.

CattleDogMom

07-12-2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad ... but I tend to call them like I see them. I seemed to me that whenever anyone suggested something to try, you had a reason ready as to why it wouldn't work, or that you'd already tried it, or that you couldn't afford it, etc. Just seemed to me that you really didn't want help and suggestions after all, since you seemed to be shooting down every suggestion without even giving it a thought first.

I also missed it the first time, I suppose, that your dog is only six months old. (Probably a good thing I did! ;) ) Six months old is right in the middle of the rebellious teenage stage dogs go through ... just like a sixteen year old kid. Almost ALL dogs act up at that age!

I'm glad to see you are willing to try crating. You can find used crates at yard sales almost any weekend for $5 - $10.

I bought a crate from Ebay. I am really stretching funds to do this. My husband is extreemly strict with money, but since he has been deployed, I am here doing the bills, and well...I WRITE THE CHECKS NOW!:D

I know I seemed like I was turning down suggestions, I guess I was just afraid or something. But when Casey laid his head on my legs and looked up at me, like "Mama, give me another chance..."

binka_nugget

07-13-2003, 12:53 AM

Oh sweet Casey...

Awsome! Looks like the crate you bid on will work great...are you sure it's the size for Casey? Anywho, when you get the crate, he may not like it at first but don't give up. He'll have to see that you make the decisions and it's what's best for him. On the otherhand, some dogs don't have any reaction when going into the crate for the first time.

Good luck to you and casey....and remember, like others have said, he's going through his 'teenage' stage right now. Kai's still going through it. I expect that Kai won't settle down until maybe 2 or 3.

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 01:37 AM

the crate is supposed to fit a 60lb dog and Casey is about 35lbs. I think the first thing is putting him in there at dinner time. He doesn't beg, but I want him to know it's calm time because we all sit at the table and eat together at dinner time.

(yes, some freaks of nature still do that bizzarre thing called family dinner)

binka_nugget

07-13-2003, 02:35 AM

family dinner...what's that?:confused:

Lol our family is a bit..disorganized..

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by binka_nugget
family dinner...what's that?:confused:

Lol our family is a bit..disorganized..

Yeah, I hear most people in this country don't do that anymore. Man my grandparents were strict on that.

lovemyshiba

07-13-2003, 11:59 AM

That's the exact same crate we had for Kito (a smaller size though).
He didn't mind going in it, and even slept in there at first, but once we came home and he was limping--the silly goof had gotten his paw stuck in it:rolleyes:

Anyway, just make sure Casey sees it as a great place to be--treats work wonders to get them in there, you could also try feeding him in there too. Give him a few toys when he is in there, so he doesn't get bored--I recommend that Kong--I know you said you are short on funds, but they are an awesome toy. You can fill them with treats, peanut butter, canned food, kibble, oatmeal, cottage cheese, ANYTHING Casey likes--mine will even eat ice cubes out of them. You can check their website for recipes or ideas for stuffing them. It will keep him busy for a while--once or twice a week, ours have to be alone longer than usual, and that's what I give them.

Good luck!!!:)

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 12:13 PM

LMAO!

I had a black Kong for him...he shredded it in 2 weeks! Guess I'll get him a new one. He loved PB in it.

his favorite are squeeky toys. he can't figure out how he's making the squeeky noise.

binka_nugget

07-13-2003, 06:10 PM

HE SHREDDED THE BLACK KONG? MY GOD...THAT'S ONE DETERMINED PUP. Isn't the black one the kong for those obsessive chewers? lol Kai doesn't care for his Kong...I tried stuffing it with loads of things...he doesn't care lol.

tikeyas_mom

07-13-2003, 06:27 PM

crating is not an asset in my opinion. I didnt crate my dogs and never will. I think of it kinda like imprissioning them :eek:. When ever I would put Oscar in his kenelle he would whine and cry and I would feel super bad, I dont think it is very nice to do that to a dog or puppy. Tikeya has never even been in a crate in her life intull one day when she went into get spayed she had to stay over night and she freaked out!! the vets thoughs she was dieing!!!! :eek:!!! She has never been near or in a crate ever since.

I think that this heeler needs some obedience training in group classes or privatly, and he shouldent be allowed to get bored, he should sleep in the same room as you, and he should alwasy have somone to play with, or somthing yummy to chew on.

just seems senstible, rather then giving him away!.

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by binka_nugget
HE SHREDDED THE BLACK KONG? MY GOD...THAT'S ONE DETERMINED PUP. Isn't the black one the kong for those obsessive chewers? lol Kai doesn't care for his Kong...I tried stuffing it with loads of things...he doesn't care lol.

Yes! A black Kong! And one of those dental Kongs that ar on the rope with the knots was shredded too.

I did read that Blue Heelers are power chewers and they do it to relieve stress and calm down.

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
crating is not an asset in my opinion. I didnt crate my dogs and never will. I think of it kinda like imprissioning them :eek:. When ever I would put Oscar in his kenelle he would whine and cry and I would feel super bad, I dont think it is very nice to do that to a dog or puppy. Tikeya has never even been in a crate in her life intull one day when she went into get spayed she had to stay over night and she freaked out!! the vets thoughs she was dieing!!!! :eek:!!! She has never been near or in a crate ever since.

I think that this heeler needs some obedience training in group classes or privatly, and he shouldent be allowed to get bored, he should sleep in the same room as you, and he should alwasy have somone to play with, or somthing yummy to chew on.

just seems senstible, rather then giving him away!.

I kinda always thought the same thing about crating, but at this point I will try anything. I know he's going to whimper and play the sympathy card with me. I am not strong, but I must be. LOL

Casey does sleep with me. He curls up on my bed with me until I fall asleep then he goes down on his blankie at the foot of the bed when I fall asleep. (At least that's what I think he does because when I fall asleep he's on the bed with me and when I wake up he's on his blankie.)

As far as obediance classes, as I have said before, that's not really doable for us right now bwcause we are "money-challenged" but maybe someday. I am a person that researches and reads about something and then tries to do it myself to save money, rather than pay someone to do it, so I got "Dog Training For Dummies"

shais_mom

07-13-2003, 07:43 PM

carole

07-13-2003, 08:14 PM

Great news that you have decided to keep Casey, as you said yourself you are able to be with her all the time, which means you will have the time and hopefully patience to train her, as she is still just a puppy.

I think the people who were willing to take her seemed genuine and caring folks, otherwise why would they bother to send such a long detailed email.

However it depends if they were looking for a working dog, when I was young growing up on the dairy farm, we had working dogs, I am sorry to say it but they were never allowed inside, but were fed, loved and well taken care for and of course had large kennels with runs, but they were not really pets.

Perhaps thats what Casey was going to be on the ranch?

Good luck with your furkid, and just be patient. cheers:)

binka_nugget

07-13-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
As far as obediance classes, as I have said before, that's not really doable for us right now bwcause we are "money-challenged" but maybe someday. I am a person that researches and reads about something and then tries to do it myself to save money, rather than pay someone to do it, so I got "Dog Training For Dummies"

I'm like that too. I only took begginer's obedience because it seemed like it was a MUST. Everyone told me to go and I guess it seemed like a rule or something. Obedience didn't do anything for us except the fact that I learned that Kai doesn't like seeing other dogs run off leash when he's on leash. We didn't learn much from the $95 we spent. Kai had already knew everything before we went to obedience. And also, whenever I had a problem like not being able to get him to focus when he's around other dogs...they'd take him away and work with him. Shouldn't they be telling me how to work with him? Anyways...I think it could work out even if you don't ever go to obedience classes. I mean, it would be great to find a local class with great instructors that would know how to deal with Casey but then again, no one should know your dog better than you do. In our case, if we had never gone to obedience, Kai would be just the same.

boscibo

07-13-2003, 11:10 PM

Crating is not mean to a dog. It is a very necessary tool. Important things to remember: Don't use the crate as punishment - keep the experience positive for the dog. Don't keep a dog in a crate for long periods of time. Leave a soft thing to lay on and toys in the crate.

Think about this: What would happen in case of an emergency and your dog had to be in a crate or other wise confined for reasons beyond your control? Hurricane, flood, tornado, earthquake, fire? If the dog was used to being in a crate, it would think everything was fine. If not used to a crate, it would be one more very stressful thing for the dog to put up with in the middle of a disaster. And no matter how well we care for our dogs, things happen and they need to go to the vet and sometimes stay there for some time. If they are used to being confined, it is a lot easier on the dog.

I am a crate advocate, as you can tell. All dogs will whine and cry at first, if you let them out when they do that it is just reinforcing that behavior. They figure they cry, you'll let them out. Crating is not cruel at all when it is done right.

Twisterdog

07-13-2003, 11:24 PM

crating is not an asset in my opinion. I didnt crate my dogs and never will. I think of it kinda like imprissioning them . When ever I would put Oscar in his kenelle he would whine and cry and I would feel super bad, I dont think it is very nice to do that to a dog or puppy.

If you don't choose to crate your dog, and don't have to, great. I don't crate the majority of my dogs either, but some of them would be absolutely unbearable without their crate.

However, CattleDogMom is obviously at the end of her rope here and willing to try something ... anything ... to keep her dog. I think she should be commended for doing so, not criticised.

A crate, used properly, is NOT mean or cruel or unnatural. Dogs still retain many instincts from their wild ansestors, one of which is sleep in a small, safe den.

By the way, the general consensus among trainers, handlers and vets is that EVERY dog should be crate trained to the extent that they know what a crate is, are not afraid of one, and will spend time in one comfortably, even if you don't regularly use a crate at home. Why? To avoid the type of situation you described ....
Tikeya has never even been in a crate in her life intull one day when she went into get spayed she had to stay over night and she freaked out!! the vets thoughs she was dieing!!!!

At some point in their lives many, many, many of our dogs will be sick, need surgery and/or post-surgical confinement, will get lost and hopefully found, etc. They NEED the crate skill at those times. If someone finds your dog and takes it to animal control, your dog is going to have a MUCH better chance of getting back to you if they can contain it, and have it behave, rather than screaming, flopping and biting because it is terrified of a crate. Those dogs are deemed "unadoptable" or "vicious" and euthanized. And what happens if your dog has to have hip sugery one day, and the vet prescribes two weeks of crate rest? Bad, bad time to try to crate train, eh?

CattleDogMom

07-13-2003, 11:43 PM

great points twister!

I for one can't wait for my crate to get here and am excited to try it. I can already see times when it will be a tool.

binka_nugget

07-14-2003, 01:12 AM

Let's just hope Casey doesn't decide to chew the crate lol.

CattleDogMom

07-14-2003, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by binka_nugget
Let's just hope Casey doesn't decide to chew the crate lol.

Yeah well he just got in trouble for digging up my rosemary bush!

He is finally sleeping peacefully

*sigh*

tikeyas_mom

07-14-2003, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Twisterdog
If you don't choose to crate your dog, and don't have to, great. I don't crate the majority of my dogs either, but some of them would be absolutely unbearable without their crate.

However, CattleDogMom is obviously at the end of her rope here and willing to try something ... anything ... to keep her dog. I think she should be commended for doing so, not criticised.

A crate, used properly, is NOT mean or cruel or unnatural. Dogs still retain many instincts from their wild ansestors, one of which is sleep in a small, safe den.

By the way, the general consensus among trainers, handlers and vets is that EVERY dog should be crate trained to the extent that they know what a crate is, are not afraid of one, and will spend time in one comfortably, even if you don't regularly use a crate at home. Why? To avoid the type of situation you described ....

At some point in their lives many, many, many of our dogs will be sick, need surgery and/or post-surgical confinement, will get lost and hopefully found, etc. They NEED the crate skill at those times. If someone finds your dog and takes it to animal control, your dog is going to have a MUCH better chance of getting back to you if they can contain it, and have it behave, rather than screaming, flopping and biting because it is terrified of a crate. Those dogs are deemed "unadoptable" or "vicious" and euthanized. And what happens if your dog has to have hip sugery one day, and the vet prescribes two weeks of crate rest? Bad, bad time to try to crate train, eh?

if my dog one day needs to have crate rest, then I will buy a pen thingy and have it big enough for her to not feel inclosed, it wouldent have a top and she would be allowed out when she wanted. or If she wanted he, I would go into the pen with her and lay with her. the pen would also be placed in the house. I am not critisizing CattleDogMom, I didnt even read the whole post befor I wrote my last reply, I just was stating my opinion about crating. I am soo happy you have found a option that works for you CattleDogMom, I really hope it pays off, I didnt mean to sound like I was critisizing you.

CattleDogMom

07-14-2003, 01:59 AM

whoa!

Ok, I am not feeling like you criticized me.

I feel like we are all so passionate about our dogs and their well being and just giving them the best life we can give them.

Sometimes when were so passionate about somethings we can be misunderstood.

tikeyas_mom

07-14-2003, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom
whoa!

Ok, I am not feeling like you criticized me.

I feel like we are all so passionate about our dogs and their well being and just giving them the best life we can give them.

Sometimes when were so passionate about somethings we can be misunderstood.

ok thanks, I am sorry though lol. I wasnt meaning to be rude. I was just speaking my mind, I tend to do that alot. hee hee. I love your dog so much Casey is sooo beautiful. I really hope everything will work out for you and Casey, Good luck ;).

Tonya

07-14-2003, 02:10 AM

CattleDogMom, I am so sorry to hear that! I know what that feels like. I rescued a blue heeler a while back. (picture attached) I had no idea what I was getting myself into. He was miserable! Destructive, angry, you name it. Well, I ran an ad in the paper. A farmer got him, and he was the only dog on the ranch. When I came back a month later to visit, he was so happy! He was like a different dog. Once I saw how natural he seemed on the ranch, I knew in my heart that I did the right thing.

Tonya

07-14-2003, 02:26 AM

I am glad to hear that you are still trying with Casey. Try everything before you give up! You never know. You don't want to be looking back thinking about would haves and could haves.

There's alot of pages here, so I wasn't able to read everything entirely. But I did read that letter from the lady that wants the dog. Yes, it may be confusing at first if the dog can't come inside. But I don't think it is as horrible as people think. I can see if both people work all day long and the dog sits in the backyard alone. Then yes, the dog should be inside all night. But it sounds like Casey would get enough stimulation all day long. It sounds to me like Casey will be to pooped to care. I really don't think that letter is a crock either. I live in a primarily farming area. Most farmers have perfectly well balanced happy dogs that never see indoors in their lives. A farm dog gets much more stimulation outdoor with their owner then a city dog with working parents will ever see. Inside or out.

CattleDogMom

07-14-2003, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Tonya
CattleDogMom, I am so sorry to hear that! I know what that feels like. I rescued a blue heeler a while back. (picture attached) I had no idea what I was getting myself into. He was miserable! Destructive, angry, you name it. Well, I ran an ad in the paper. A farmer got him, and he was the only dog on the ranch. When I came back a month later to visit, he was so happy! He was like a different dog. Once I saw how natural he seemed on the ranch, I knew in my heart that I did the right thing.

hmmm

I never thought he was angry, I thought maybe sad or depressed.

I have read that if they're not happy, they do become detructive though

lovemyshiba

07-14-2003, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by CattleDogMom

I feel like we are all so passionate about our dogs and their well being and just giving them the best life we can give them.

Sometimes when were so passionate about somethings we can be misunderstood.

I'm so glad you feel that way. If only everyone could understand that when an argument happens:)

OK, Casey shredded a black kong??? I forgot that you did mention that in the original post:o What a chewer!!!!
I really really hope the crate works out for you--even if you just need to use it when you are taking a shower, or making dinner, or running your kids somewhere, it will be a relief to know he is safe--or rather that your house is safe!!!
My Abbey has been a little destructive lately--her list is 2 remotes, a hands free kit for a cell, and hubby's cell:eek: This has all been within the past week. I think it's just a phase for her--I'm getting her even more exercise, and crating her when I have to run one of the other dogs out.

Please let us know how everything works out with Casey and his crate.

aly

07-14-2003, 11:57 AM

This thread is very upsetting to me. I haven't finished it yet, but will do so after I reply. Forgive me if I repeat anything thats been said in the second half of the thread which I haven't read yet.

First of all, this sticks out in my mind:

I am home with Casey all day. If I have to go somewhere, he goes with us. He is NEVER alone.

Before you said this, I thought perhaps rehoming him through a responsible rescue (not a ranch) would be his best option. But now I have changed my mind. If he's never alone, there is no excuse to not work with him through this. That is an IDEAL situation for a dog. I think you need to speak with a trainer who will do a visit with you for free. If you tell them its your only option or you'll have to get rid of him, they may agree to waive their fees. It just sounds like you don't fully understand dog training and behavior. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but thats what it sounds like.

I would definately not send him to those people who emailed you. The poor baby would not have a good life being outside looking in at his pack and only allowed to come join them one day a year. It will ruin his spirit. I also don't agree with them letting their previous dog "roam the countryside". Not too responsible. I understand they are old, but still, there's really no excuse to not educate themselves and try to be more responsible.

If you can't afford agility, enlist the help of your children. Set up something in your backyard. Buy a children's tunnel from Toys R Us and set up a few jumps. Get some tennis balls (you can get them free just by going to a tennis court :p ) and throw them around. Its very good that you take him to the dog park and I'm sure that helps him a lot. He probably needs more variety. Mix things up a bit and keep him guessing.

I agree with everything Twisterdog has said (as usual). It is perfectly possible to have an ACD in a small apartment if you have the appropriate knowledge, committment, and devotion to your dog. You can keep them happy and exercised.

When I was in juinor high, I thought crating dogs was cruel and swore I'd NEVER do that. Then I started educating myself on dog training and behavior and had several internships with behaviorists. I learned that crating is not only not cruel, but very very very helpful. Crating has saved many many dogs from having to go to shelters or be rehomed. It is only not cruel if you do it the right way though. Don't leave the dog in the crate for too long, and always make it positive. They think of it as their "den" and can be trained to be totally comfortable in it. I work with shelter dogs on crate training on a daily basis. Some are freaked out at first, but with some work they always get comfortable.

There are a lot of other things I had to say, but I think I'll finish the thread first.

aly

07-14-2003, 12:12 PM

Ok I am just about caught up now. Thank you for not giving up on your boy. You are right in that when he's a bit older, you'll NEVER REGRET your decision!

Please feel free to pm me if you ever need any help or advice. I'm very used to working with EXUBERANT dogs at the shelter and at the obedience classes I teach.

Thanks again for being there for your baby :)

aly

07-14-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
crating is not an asset in my opinion. I didnt crate my dogs and never will. I think of it kinda like imprissioning them :eek:. When ever I would put Oscar in his kenelle he would whine and cry and I would feel super bad, I dont think it is very nice to do that to a dog or puppy. Tikeya has never even been in a crate in her life intull one day when she went into get spayed she had to stay over night and she freaked out!! the vets thoughs she was dieing!!!! :eek:!!! She has never been near or in a crate ever since.

First of all, you should never just shove a dog in a crate and expect the dog to be okay with it. You have to slowly introduce them to the crate. Start with the crate door always open and throw some hot dogs (or some other good treat) in. Let them walk in and out on their own several times. Then you can gradually start shutting the door for a few seconds at a time. If they are calm with the door shut, you reward them by opening the door back up. If they start whining, scratching, pawing at the door, etc, NEVER let them out. That will reward them for putting up a fuss so then they'll always fuss if they want out. That's probably what happened with Oscar. Tikeya was also in a strange place which I'm sure was part of the reason she freaked. They just need to be worked with and slowly introduced, not just thrown in.