breeding delima

[lute]

my mom wants a mini schnauzer to breed. we had one before and she loved breedig her.she died but she wants another.

i want a dachshund. i love the breed and would love to breed them.

what breed should we breed?:confused:

[primabella]

I would say neither.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

I agree with Liana...leave the breeding to the experts as in RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS....there are too many dogs out there as it is....and people like you who breed "for fun" dont help at all! :mad:

[Tina]

I say neither:mad: Why in the world would you want to do that! There are too many dogs out there that need homes as it is:(

[lovemyshiba]

I cannot believe you would even post that here. I think you just do stuff like that to make us mad.
I recommend neither, maybe you and your mom should see some statistics of how many dogs there are without homes.
Just because it is fun, is no reason to breed dogs.
Go to a shelter and adopt a dog, and save it's life.

PLEASE DO NOT BREED ANY DOGS

[sasvermont]

I have not a clue as to what this means!

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Delima is a problem

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by sasvermont
I have not a clue as to what this means!


lolol:D

[Logan]

di·lem·ma
A situation that requires a choice between options that are or seem equally unfavorable or mutually exclusive.
Usage Problem. A problem that seems to defy a satisfactory solution.
Logic. An argument that presents two alternatives, each of which has the same consequence.



It seems to me that what you have is definitely not a true dilemma (correct spelling). You post pictures of homeless dogs in horrible situations for us all the time, so I know you understand the huge problem with pleasure or backyard breeding. I'm also sure you knew what kind of response you would get here, so I will go ahead and go on record, agreeing with the majority. Both of you need to look at your desires again in a more realistic manner and do what is right for any potential dog you get, concentrating on loving it and not the puppies and money it can bring you.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Very well said Logan.

[lovemyshiba]

Is your dog so cute you wish you could fill the world with creatures just like her? Many owners feel this way about their pets. Some even see breeding as a way to make some extra money, through the sale of the litter.


What many people do not realize is that breeding can have serious medical as well as social consequences. It can also be unexpectedly expensive. Although we at VetCentric support the efforts of responsible professional dog breeders, when it comes to letting puppies proliferate in the laundry room or the backyard, we have to give owners a strong thumbs down.

If you are considering perpetuating your dog’s gene pool, we urge you to first carefully consider these Eight Good Reasons Not to Breed Your Dog.

1. Not all dogs are built to be bred.

Most pets, although lovable, are not of breeding quality because they have genetic defects and other problems that should not be perpetuated. People who breed dogs for a living are very careful about choosing which dogs they will breed together based on physical characteristics and behavior. Some people decide that it would be fun to breed and just start looking for a dog that has the proper equipment and is willing. This can be a huge mistake.

2. There are already too many dogs in the world.

Breeding your pet is a serious endeavor and should not be taken lightly. There are far too many pets that end up in shelters without good homes. If your breed of dog has large litters, what will you do if you are unable to sell the puppies? Do you really want to contribute to the massive problem of pet overpopulation?

3. Dogs that aren’t neutered face serious health risks.

Consider your dog’s own health. Male dogs that are neutered are less likely to be hit by cars, because unaltered males have a very strong urge to roam and find a fertile female. Male dogs will go over or under fences, through doors and windows, and will pull leashes out of unsuspecting hands in quest of a mate.

Additionally, neutering greatly reduces the incidence of prostatic disease and eliminates testicular cancer in males, and cuts down on breast cancer in females. The possibility of uterine infections is also eliminated by spaying.

4. Female dogs used for breeding may have unwelcome visitors.

If you spay your dog, you will not have to chase persistent male dogs out of your yard. Also, you won’t have to worry about cleaning up messy heat cycles.

5. Be prepared to work like a dog when your pet goes into labor.

Many people do not realize just how much work and expense is involved with letting dogs have puppies. Getting the mother through pregnancy is the easy part, but labor is truly laborious for dog and owner alike. Dogs usually decide to have their puppies at the most inconvenient times, like 2:00 in the morning when veterinary hospitals are closed.

If your pet develops a problem during delivery, it means at least the expense of an emergency call. If the complications are life threatening, you must be prepared, especially if you have a breed of dog that has a broad head like a pug, to pay for an emergency C-section. It is very distressing to have to leave home in the middle of the night, worry about your pet, get a large veterinary bill and then try to explain to your boss why you cannot possibly come to work the next day.

6. It can be devastating when the puppies die.

There is always the prospect of the loss of some or all of the puppies. A neonatal mortality rate of 10 to 30 percent is considered normal. And, it’s easy to lose a puppy if you don’t have the experience or knowledge to care for newborns. Because puppies are not able to regulate their own body temperature initially, you may need to supplement their environment with heat.

7. Not all dogs make the best mothers.

If your female doesn’t have enough milk to feed all its puppies, or decides that feeding her offspring is not her cup of tea, it will be your responsibility to provide them with nutrition every three to four hours, round the clock. And how many mouths are there to feed?

Another aspect of puppy care that you can look forward to if your dog wants nothing to do with her brood is the manual stimulation of urination and defecation. Until puppies are three weeks old they will only void if directly stimulated. If mom isn’t doing this, you will need to take a moistened cotton ball and gently rub the urogenital area until the babes begin to urinate and pass stool. Failure to do this can result in some pretty unhappy puppies.

8. Good luck seeing a profit!

Your last responsibility before they go to a new home is to have them dewormed, vaccinated, and examined by a veterinarian. You will want to make sure that you have budgeted a sufficient amount for this purpose. Needless to say, if you decide to breed mixed breed puppies, you have no opportunity to recoup this expense.

Puppies are a lot of fun and it can be very exciting when they are born, but more often than not, owners find themselves in over their heads when they decide to endeavor into breeding.

Article republished here with permission from VetCentric.com
Copyright(c) 2000 by VetCentric.com

[lovemyshiba]

Why People want to breed dogs, and why they shouldn't.


Almost everybody loves puppies. Who could resist that sweet puppy breath or soft, downy fur?

Unfortunately, when it comes to dog breeding, a love of puppies is simply not enough to breed your dog. Hundreds of puppies are born every day, and hundreds of adorable puppies are put to sleep in shelters across North America. We have a serious pet overpopulation problem right now.

The Reasons People Want to Breed Their Dog

I want another one just like my dog.
I want to make money.
I want my children to witness the miracle of birth.
Puppies are cute, there's always people who want puppies.
The Reasons People Should NOT Breed Their Dogs


I want another one just like my dog.
This never works according to plan. When a dog gets pregnant, the puppies will take the father's traits, personality, and physical, and the mother's traits, and mix them up, taking some of one, some of another, and developing their own altogether. You will never get a perfect match. In stead you may end up with the worst traits of both dogs.

Even cloning a dog (see "Cloning Your Dog") has proven that while a genetic match is possible, looks and temperament are still in the hands of Fate.


I want to make money.
I can't believe people can still think they can make money off of puppies. The cost of breeding will overshadow any profits you think to make. The puppies need their first shots before going to their new homes, the mother needs frequent check-ups, and heaven forbid if something goes wrong. And something always goes wrong.


I want my children to witness the miracle of birth.
This "miracle" can now be easily viewed by both children and adults thanks to such wonderful programming as "A Baby Story" and "Maternity Ward", both available on cable television.

Not only that, but how much of a "miracle" will your child be seeing if your beloved pet dies halfway through delivery?


Puppies are cute, there's always people who want puppies.
No, unfortunately this is the most ignorant assumption made these days. Not everybody wants puppies. Hundreds die everyday because of the lack of homes. How heartbreaking to hold a twelve week old puppy and put her to sleep because somebody thought for sure there would be somebody else who wanted her.

For every puppy born, three die in shelters. There are too many out there and not enough homes for them all.

If this is not enough reasons to stop you from breeding your dog, then here are a few more:

Complications in birth and pregnancies happen all the time. You could face losing your dog to death, and all the puppies with her. Will YOU pay the $1200.00 for a much-needed emergency cesarean section when she cannot deliver the pups?

What about sexually-transmitted diseases? That stud dog you had pickled out may have one. They are more common than you think.

How about genetic diseases? They abound.

Breeding is not a careless affair, it is so much more than bringing bitch and stud together during a heat cycle.

Please think it over carefully.


Recommended Reading
• Successful Dog Breeding
• Canine Reproduction: The Breeder's Guide
• Breeding a Litter: The Complete Book of Prenatal and Postnatal Care
• The Standard Book of Dog Breeding
• The Complete Book of Dog Breeding
• The Genetics of the Dog
• Breeding Dogs for Dummies
• Dog Breeding for Professionals
• The Joy of Breeding Your Own Show Dog

[Kfamr]

Dilemma in my dictionary is a Nelly song.


As for the subject. I agree with everyone else. Do not breed.

[tikeyas_mom]

dont breed because it is wrone to do so, why would you want to up the risk of canser in your female and male dog, + up the risk of homless puppies in the world. It is pointless. please dont breed. !! :(

[Kfamr]

Wow, I just looked. She's only 14. Definatly shouldn't be breeding dogs, and if her mother buys her dogs to breed then her mother really needs to be educated.

[wolfsoul]

Please don't breed. I am against all backyard breeders. Millions of dogs die a year all over the world. And there are ten STRAY dogs for every person on this earth. Imagine how many more dogs that aren't stray. We don't need any more.

Even if you do breed, you can't be proud to sy that you are a good breeder. A good breeder researches, has many breeding dogs, keeps pedigrees, takes special care that thier dogs are vet checked every six months, has their dogs' elbows, hips and eyes certified, does something with their dogs (eg conformation, agility, diving, flyball, obedience) and has the money to keep all of it up. Breeding is vry expensive, and their is absolutley no profit. But a good breeder doesn't care about profit, they only care about making the breed better.

[cali]

:rolleyes: at everyone else

I say its your choice:) as long as the dog is healthy and fites their standerd, AND you have buyers lined up already and are prepared to keep any and all the pups if need be.

for everyone else did you ever stop to think that ALL responsable breeders had to start somewhere?? if you notice she does NOT have the dogs yet, she is asking whch breed would be better to breed, I am sure she is going to look for a GOOD pedigreed dog, and keep records etc.. also she said her MOM wants another dog to breed, and that she has experience. I plan to breed misty when she is older, woop de doo, and I dont plane to take her to the vet every 6 months we dont take our dogs to the vet once a year, nor do they get shots, big deal, its a different style. she asked a question and she gets a war, I am not saying she should breed i dont know her, but neither do you guys. this thread is WAY out of line.

[primabella]

:rolleyes: at cali

How can you say it's out of line? We just answered what she asked for. I think your looking too much into it.


for everyone else did you ever stop to think that ALL responsable breeders had to start somewhere??

A responsible breeder knows completly, a hundred percent about the breed of dog and should usually only have one in mind. (maybe think about breeding another later on) Not two, and then ask which one should be bred.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

:rolleyes: at cali too.

She asked a question, and she got our answers to it. If we just said "oh yeah go ahead and breed" to everyone who wanted to breed their dog, we woud have thousands upon thousands of MORE dogs ending up in shelters, and being put to sleep. Thats why I always say...LEAVE IT UP TO THE RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS!
:rolleyes:

[cali]

If you plan to breed when Misty is older she HAS to go to the vet and get regular check ups...that is if you want to be a RESPONSIBLE breeder

NOT true. I know plenty of VERY responsible breeders who dont take there dogs for regulare check-ups or shots, of coarse she will be health checked and all that, I am not stupid. its called NATURAL REARING. and some of the healthiest dogs are raised this way.

primebella, maybe so, but I like to give people a fair chance, I know what it is like to be judged so quickly, one site I was framed a girl hated me so she sent herself a nasty e-mail saying it was from me, I was kicked off the board and treated like dirt I was called all sorts of things, the whole time I did not have any idea why I was getting nasy PMs and e-mails, then banned from the board, I found out later what happend. after that, I know what is liek to be judged and i give everyone a fair chance.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

I never said you were stupid. So, let me get this staight..you know responsible breeders who dont even get their dogs the proper health care or shots?? :rolleyes:

[cali]

yes like I said natural rearing, and I know 3 of them, a sheltie breeder, a great dane breeder, and an ibizen(sp?) hound breeder. obvously not here(this board) but natural rearing is gaining popularity, even happys breeder is becoming a natural rearer.

[primabella]

primebella, maybe so, but I like to give people a fair chance, I know what it is like to be judged so quickly, one site I was framed a girl hated me so she sent herself a nasty e-mail saying it was from me, I was kicked off the board and treated like dirt I was called all sorts of things, the whole time I did not have any idea why I was getting nasy PMs and e-mails, then banned from the board, I found out later what happend. after that, I know what is liek to be judged and i give everyone a fair chance. [/B]

I never said to not give anyone a fair chance. I just don't see the logic in what she wants to do. And I have been judged by tons of people and I hate it. People are shallow, what do you want? I'm sorry about what happened to you, but I've been through it to. However, I think this is different. She comes here, tells us nothing about how good of a breeder she would be, tells us two breeds her and her mother like and ask which ones she should breed. That sounds pretty darn irresponsible to me.


NOT true. I know plenty of VERY responsible breeders who dont take there dogs for regulare check-ups or shots

Whether you are a breeder or not, I don't believe any responsible pet owner should let their dog go without regular check-ups or shots.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Right. All dogs need their shots and regular check ups, ESSPECIALLY if you plan to breed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

AT CALI :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



She asked for our opinions/suggestions, we gave them to her. I highly doubt at the age of 14 she his resposible/educated enough to breed an animal responsibly.

[micki76]

Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
I never said you were stupid. So, let me get this staight..you know responsible breeders who dont even get their dogs the proper health care or shots?? :rolleyes:

That's so incredibly STUPID!!!! Should human babies never see the Dr or get their vaccinations? NO! Animal care is no different.

Why do people continue to be so irresponsible? I'll never understand. Maybe it's best that I don't try. I only end up frustrated.

Only responsible, breeders with enough knowleedge to do so, should. Period. End of story. And I personally think there should even be some regulation for professional breeders, though I know that won't ever happen. :rolleyes:

[cali]

apperently people here are against holistics and all for allopathy. I go the holistic way, they are NOT vaccinated and i dont plane on ever doing so. my dogs are some of the healthiest around now. before we switched our dogs to holistic they were in terrable condition, they had their shots, and were fed a premium food, and went to the vet regularly, mainly cuz they needed to, happy got really sick when she was a pup after her second set of shots, we almost lost her, she was throwing up all the time, and had to be fed water through a tube, turned out to be vaccinosis(sp?) and we put off her spay, until she was better, we started doing research, and tried holistic methods, no more shots for any of the dogs, raw food, and guess what, all of a sudden the dogs were healthy, since then(3 years ago) we have never needed a vet, everyone is amazed a the difference. I dont believe in vaccinating, get over it. just because YOU dont agree with it does not make me irrisponsable. :rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

What if your dogs come in contact with a sick dog and your dog catches whatever that dog had. Would you not take it to the vet and get shots to make it better?

[cali]

Should human babies never see the Dr or get their vaccinations? NO! Animal care is no different
lol believe is ot not but I do know someone who does the same with there baby lol

[GoldenRetrLuver]

That doesnt make any sence. You had your dogs vet cared, fed them good quailty food, and they all became incredibly sick. We have our own opinins also. So, YOU get over it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[primabella]

:rolleyes: cali, what you just said seems incredibly impossible. Seeing the doctor and getting shots made them sick, not getting proper vet care made them better. Anyways, I don't care what method you use. It's your dogs.

I'm just sorry on how this thread got so long. I have a feeling it was done on purpose to start something. It's obvious you go to a pet messageboard, post a topic you know most of the members are against and just leave them to reply to it. Even if it isn't, I don't care. I don't have anything left to say anyways :rolleyes: (That shut me up :p)


What if your dogs come in contact with a sick dog and your dog catches whatever that dog had. Would you not take it to the vet and get shots to make it better?

I was going to make the same point. Our vet even told us to avoid going on long walks before he got his first shot.

[micki76]

Originally posted by cali
lol believe is ot not but I do know someone who does the same with there baby lol

It’s not off topic. It’s called an analogy. I hope their child doesn’t get any horrible diseases.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by primabella
I was going to make the same point. Our vet even told us to avoid going on long walks before he got his first shot.


Yeah, I didn't take Nala to the dog park until she got her all of her first shots ( Rabis and all) There's too many chances of another dog being sick and spreading it to her or Nala being sick and spreading it to someone else's dog.

[primabella]

Originally posted by micki76
It’s not off topic. It’s called an analogy. I hope their child doesn’t get any horrible diseases.

I think she meant to say "believe it or not" not that what you said was OT (off-topic) ;)

[Kfamr]

It's hard to understand what she types sometimes... I basically just skipped over that sentence because it was confusing, Lol.:)

[micki76]

Originally posted by primabella
I think she meant to say "believe it or not" not that what you said was OT (off-topic) ;)

Oh yeah, I see it now. Thanks Liana. ;) In that case, perhaps using Microsoft Word first would be a good suggestion?

[primabella]

lol :D I like the message in your sig. :D (dictionary.com) It's like a "Hooked on Phonics" commercial or something. ;)

no prob Micki ;)

[cali]

oh yes sorry typo, that was supposed to be or, not ot :p

anyway my original post was meant to get people to be rational, not start a war:rolleyes: and vaccinosis is a real illness ya know, and it was vet diagnosed in happy, they do get vet care just not a tone like people here do. we both have our opinions, and i have nothing wrong with your veiws but you have no right to say that I am irrisponble just because I have different veiws. and they do get a parvo shot as a pup.

[binka_nugget]

ack. Please, don't breed. We have enough breeders in this world as it is. I respect responsible breeders and even if you have the best intentions, please think about the dogs in the pounds. Their are thousands of dogs dieing everyday in this world and bringing more dogs into this world won't help a bit.

Cali, I actually read a bit about not giving dogs shots. I was considering it but I need to do more research and ask different vets about it. If I do take that route, he'd get titer tests very often to check his immunity level. As often as I can afford, but we'll see. I'd probably also get the vet to give him nosodes. Do you have any experience with them Cali? I heard that it was proven to be just as effective as vaccines.:confused:

[Logan]

Cali, I try to steer away from "posts gone bad", like this one seems to be headed. I would caution you that some of us are specifically speaking to Lute/Lexie because she has been here a long time, even though she did sign up under a new nickname several months ago. There is history here; we are not being cruel, I promise. And, she did ask. There's one big problem on these forums, and not just Pet Talk. Someone comes here, makes a statement or asks a question, but then the person posting or someone else takes offense that others offer an opinion that differs from theirs and there are hurt feelings. My theory is that if you don't want to hear opinions, other than your own, don't ask to begin with. The same thing goes for your opinion on holistic medicine. You will have some people who don't understand your position. I, frankly, would enjoy knowing more about it, and how you became so confident with it that you no longer seek veterinary attention for your animals. We don't have anyone in our area that I have heard of that practices holistic medicine, and I totally trust my vet in regards to vaccines and medical care for my pets.

Logan

[cali]

I only have experience with titres we get those done sometimes, its expensive though so only when we can afford it, and our vet pulls some strings for us to make it cheaper :D I have never heard of nosodes before, maybe my mom has, but she is in calgary, so I cant very well ask her lol:p but just a warning if you dont have a lab in your area that has the equipement to check the blood samples, then its cost a lot of money here its $48 per titer per dog 2 titers each and five dogs equals a LOT of money!:eek:

[primabella]

Originally posted by cali
but you have no right to say that I am irrisponble just because I have different veiws.

I never called you irresponsible. I just don't agree with what your doing. I have never heard of your kind of "vet care" either so I guess I can't say much. I just don't think what your doing is the best thing for your pets. But it's your choice. I just think good ol' fashion shots and check-ups is best.


I would caution you that some of us are specifically speaking to Lute/Lexie because she has been here a long time, even though she did sign up under a new nickname several months ago. There is history here

I think she is just trying to start trouble. Unless she really had that kind of question...but what kind of answer would she expect?

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by cali
I only have experience with titres we get those done sometimes, its expensive though so only when we can afford it, and our vet pulls some strings for us to make it cheaper :D I have never heard of nosodes before, maybe my mom has, but she is in calgary, so I cant very well ask her lol:p but just a warning if you dont have a lab in your area that has the equipement to check the blood samples, then its cost a lot of money here its $48 per titer per dog 2 titers each and five dogs equals a LOT of money!:eek:

LOl cali..i'll pm you..i don't want to get off the topic of breeding lol

[Airedalekisses]

Please don't breed!! and in regard to troublesome people there is always the ignore button!!I know it's a bit cruel;but......

[cali]

I just don't think what your doing is the best thing for your pets.

well my opinion when my dogs are healthier then they have ever been before its best for my pets:p

[primabella]

Originally posted by cali
well my opinion when my dogs are healthier then they have ever been before its best for my pets:p

Okay then I'm glad it all worked out for you.

[KYS]

Cali, holistic breeders still take their dogs to the vets for
other tests.
(this was all new to me 9 years ago)
Sheba breeder did not believe in vacinating (accept
for rabies) and he used Nosodes.
After speaking to my vet, I decided against it,
and the breeder vacinated Sheba for me.
Now vacination protocal might change in the future,
where you do not need to vacinate yearly for certain
disease's such as distemper and Parvo.
Sheba will be 10, and I might no longer vaccinate her
accept for rabies.

But "reputable" breeders who do use holistic methods
study their dogs lines for genetics problems to pick
the perfect match before breeding.
They also go to the vets and get the required tests
done for known heriditary diseases known to that
breed. example: ( cerfs for the eyes) elbow and hip testing, or
even certain blood tests.
So just because a breeder doesn't believe in vacinating,
does not mean they do not still check for other diseases
in their breeds lines before breeding.

[Tonya]

I don't know much about dogs, but there are plenty of humans that don't get vaccinations. Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT the law. Did you know that they guy that invented the polio vaccination killed a few of his children in the process?

They did a study on an island where a disease (I am sorry I don't remember which one) was detected all over this island, yet none of the natives had it. They did not have vaccinations. They figured out that through the mother's breast milk, immunity had been passed on. These vaccinations are a small amount of the disease injected into the body.

I work with a guy who himself and all three of his children and his grandchildren have almost never even had the common cold let alone any other disease or illness. They never had vaccinations. They never see the doctor. They eat well and take their vitamins. They stay away from unnatural products.

I would have never looked into this until my son came out with ADHD. There are tons of children and people studied, they are trying to figure out why there are so many more ADHD cases today then thirty years ago. They took thousands of kids off of preservatives, food dyes, medications, and all that extra crap we have in life. Almost all of the kid's syptoms went away. From autism, to asthma, to frequent colds, you name it.

I think society might be going overboard. We pop a pill or take a shot for just about anything these days. I don't think it is to far fetched or negligent to not get your children or pets shots. My son and pets have their shots. I am undecided on rather or not my next child or pets will. This is a subject that I am still researching. Sorry if I got to far off subject. :D

[cali]

Cali, holistic breeders still take their dogs to the vets for
I never said they did'nt, of coarse they get there dogs tested for other things, just as i plane to do with misty, its only the vax I am against :)

tonya I agree with you 100%:D I dont get vaccinations anymore either, and I am healthier too, when I did get shots I got stomich pains all the time, and was always sick, after my mom stoped with the dogs she stoped me to, now in the whole year I had only 8 absences when before I was always missing weeks of school at a time. I do think people have gone WAY overboard, with the whole vax, and antibiotics thing.

[zanzanfergie]

Ok, this topic has made me slightly nervous, because I haven't liked to mention it before but I will now.
When Lucy turns two years old she will be bred. My neighbours (her owners) aren't doing it themselves, because they don't have any experience with dogs - she'll go back to her original breeders and have puppies from a Golden Retriever stud. This has all been arranged since before Lucy was born, apparently, and my neighbours took Lucy as a pet with all those conditions.
I don't know if this is different to what this topic is about - 'irresponsible' breeding if you will. But Lucy has a pedigree and everything, and is part of a breeding program that screens against hip displaysia and eye defects. I don't know if that makes it better.
I volunteer at a shelter and see the dogs everyday so when they told me that Lucy was having puppies it was very confusing as to know whether to laugh or cry. Because all the good owners buying Lucy's puppies could be taking home dogs from the shelter.
I guess all this is another side of the coin too.

[Kfamr]

Zan, your story is way different. Lucy is going to a responsible breeder ( i assume) is going to be bred. Lute, which is 14, wants to breed. She is a child. I am a child as well. It is hard for me to take care of Nala, and she's just one puppy, let alone who knows how many will be in the litter if she does breed.

[Logan]

I want to make sure that I go on record correctly. I LOVE purebred dogs. I also know of dozens that are in rescue groups, looking for homes, just right here, just Golden Retrievers. I am absolutely not against purebred puppies from reputable breeders. All three of our dogs were purchased as puppies.......but I didn't know what I was doing then, either!! Am I sorry I got Honey and Lilly? NO WAY!!! I just would probably do more research for a breeder next time and not encourage the backyard breeders to have any more puppies by buying one of theirs. And most likely, my next dog will be a rescue dog.

[allanimalswelcome]

Without precribed pills I would be incredibly sick.

Without precribed pills my acne would have left behind some unpleasent features on my face.

But that's just me.

Don't breed your dogs please. Not only are there enough dogs in shelters you don't seem to educated. Being a breeder is hardwork and not always someones cup of tea.

And what if you can't find homes for the puppies?

~Rachel

[allanimalswelcome]

Well my dad does work for Pfizer so I guess that's why I am for vacinations so much...

~Rachel

[Tweety_Pie]

If you can't find homes for the puppies, you keep them intill they are sold. My aunt breeds Great Danes and she is CKC registered. And she is also a vet. My aunt knows what she is doing and is willing to keep the pups intill they find proper homes. Most breeders that are backyard breeders, turn the pups loose, get them put to sleep, or give the to shelters. SO you do have to be prepared because it's lots of money and work.

[aly]

ARGH! I haven't even finished this thread yet and I'm not even sure that I will :mad: :mad: :mad:

Cali - I'm tired of hearing this nonsense about how your animals don't go to the vet. That greatly saddens and disturbs me like you will never know.

I have just spent some time on natural rearing websites and I think its completely bogus and stupid. You cannot put RESPONSIBLE BREEDER and DOESN'T GO TO THE VET in the same sentence. That is NOT responsible!!!!!

Lute, if you really want to breed, go get some sea monkeys or an ant farm. I'm not trying to be rude, but there are so many dogs dying in shelters as we speak! Innocent lives are being lost for no reason!!!

[cali]

I dont care what you think, aly, there is more then one way of thinking and doing things. get used to it.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

I agree aly. You can't put responsible breeder and doesnt go to the vet in the same sentence. It doesnt make sence.

[Kfamr]

More than one thing of doing thing... One is way more intelligent though.

[binka_nugget]

Lute..here's a thread in another forum about breeding. I think it's very well written and worth 5 minutes to read. (Thanks to cali for sending me the link to this forum lol):D

http://www.mydogsite.com/boards/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=810&

[Christiansmommy]

I am definitly not saying whether i am for or against not vaccinating...more toward the vaccinating...but anyway, i just wanted to say that i do belong to a baby/toddler board that i frequent (not as much as Pettalk :))....but you would be surprised how many people dont believe in having their own children vaccinated...now some may get some vaccinces (sp?), but alot dont...i have to trust my doctor and do what he feels is best...and therefore we do vaccinate here :) I was just surprised to see how many dont....anyway, i'll shut my mouth now, this thread is getting hot in here!! :)....just had to add that little tid bit :)

On another note, i wouldnt breed either...

[Crikit]

Okay, well isn't this just a great big can of worms we have going on here. So let's do this in order of posts shall we.

Lute- in answer to your question, you shouldn't breed either. Just because you and your mom might think it would be fun to breed either of those breeds doesn't give you a right to do that. I think it would be fun to a bunch of stuff and i don't do any of it...then again my list doesn't include breeding dogs, I'll leave that to the people who have the knowledge, time and experience. Have you ever considered what can happen to the pups and to the mother, lots of stuff that people who are just doing it for fun wouldn't be able to handle, heck some of the stuff that happens is even stuff that pros have a hard time dealing with..so just don't for the dogs sake don't.

As for the whole vaccination thing, I'm all for it. Think of it this way, you go to a foreign country in like Africa or the tropics what's the first thing you do after booking it all and getting the tickets out of the way. Well if you're smart you go and get the shots that are needed to protect yourself from the diseases that might be there. Why not do the same for your dogs?

Yes I know in the wild Wolves and such don't get vaccines but you know what we aren't in the wild, our dogs aren't in the wild. They live in the exact same conditions as us. We all know it's not their natural habitat they've adapted to live with us over time but they're immune systems might not have so why not give them the little boost that they need?

[aly]

Originally posted by Crikit

Yes I know in the wild Wolves and such don't get vaccines but you know what we aren't in the wild, our dogs aren't in the wild. They live in the exact same conditions as us. We all know it's not their natural habitat they've adapted to live with us over time but they're immune systems might not have so why not give them the little boost that they need?

You hit the nail on the head there.

We domesticated dogs and they now depend on us. With proper vet care, high quality diets, and vaccinations, their life span lengthens.

[doglovrforevr]

lute- To answer ur question, i dont think you should breed either. I think just having one dog is a BIG resposibility, but breeding is probably gonna be even bigger. Considering you are only 14, you might want to wait, if ever, until you are at least a lot older.

[shais_mom]

I agree I don't think she should breed either, simply b/c she keeps posting dogs in dog rescue, "see this dog -- save him" etc and yet she hasn't rescued any herself. She tried to get people in her surrounding states, your's truly included she PM'ed me wanting to arrange transportation b/c she was getting a great Dane. There is a big difference b/n great danes and weiner dogs!
If you do a search on her posts you will see most of them are 'save this dog'. She has wanted just about every kind of dog there is. I think she is honestly a troll that just keeps coming back.

[shais_mom]

http://petoftheday.com/talk/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=137973



this might not work not sure

[Kfamr]

... Or just another kid not being able to make up their mind in what they want. :rolleyes:

[Cincy'sMom]

I don't know what I can add that hasn't already been said, but I agree with the majority...do NOT breed.

I have nothing against purebred dogs, RESPONSIBLE breeders etc. They do have a place.

However, speaking specifically to Lute, everytime someone mentions a new breed, you want one. Everyday (yes I am exaggerating) you arelooking into a new breed...that is fine, it is good to learn about different breeds...however, what if you get the dog and change your mind, again?

There was the Dane incident Shais_mom mentioned. There was also a certain GSD incident not too long ago. Right now I am not sure you should even be thinking about getting another dog, and CERTAINLY not breeding!!!

[cloverfdx]

to you lute DO NOT BREED (have you been to your local shelter latly and held a dying pup in your arms, no most likly not) :(


I plan to breed misty when she is older, woop de doo, and I dont plane to take her to the vet every 6 months we dont take our dogs to the vet once a year, nor do they get shots,

Grrr@ the whoop de dooo :rolleyes:

ok so one of your dogs pick up parvo from somwhere, they come home and infect all your other dogs (real responsible):rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

a litter of pups came into the animal shelter today (suspected parvo all 5 of them :mad: ) i could have been avoided (irrisponsible breeding and vacinations)

ohh makes me sooooo mad
lute go back to watching sessame street (forget about breeding)

[aly]

Cali - Please stop talking about me on other boards :eek:

Thanks.

[cali]

sorry. and I only mentioned your name once its not like I talk about you or anything.

[puppygrrl4eva7]

Yes I know in the wild Wolves and such don't get vaccines but you know what we aren't in the wild, our dogs aren't in the wild. They live in the exact same conditions as us. We all know it's not their natural habitat they've adapted to live with us over time but they're immune systems might not have so why not give them the little boost that they need?

Ok this makes so much sense now, I mean before I totally agreed with giving animals vaccines and I still do but I was wondering (BEFORE this post^) about like 300 years ago how did dogs survive then without vaccines and all the talk about complications during a dog giving labor how did they survive way back then in the wild when cavemen or whoever hadn't invented c section births, But after you're post ,Criket, it makes a ton of sense now, The dogs became domesticated! Sry If I totally confused you just ignore the message;) I just wanted to say that it made my brain a little bit heavier lol:D

[KYS]

Not to keep the subject going on and on.
Shots are not evil.
Ask your vet why some dogs
have bad re-actions to shots.
From what I understand,
it has to do with the dogs immune system.
In the wild only healthy animals survived.
In domesticated animals their is no
survival of the fittest.
(that why carefull breeding is so very important)

JMHO

[allanimalswelcome]

I think some dogs have bad reactions to shots because not every dog can handle them since not every dog is the same.

I was just reading a thick book about puppies I bought. It has a section on buying from a breeder which includes a list of questions to ask.

I warn you most people are looking for a dog with their shots, pedigree parents, and health certifacets.

"Most breeders should only be too happy to show you show titles or health certifacits. If they are wary about showing you or say "We'll show you when you pick up the puppy" be warned!"

~Ravhel

[allanimalswelcome]

They also like to know their puppy's parents are vet checked and healthy. If they aren't it could mean that a puppy is unhealthy.

~Rachel

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by KYS
Not to keep the subject going on and on.
Shots are not evil.
Ask your vet why some dogs
have bad re-actions to shots.
From what I understand,
it has to do with the dogs immune system.
In the wild only healthy animals survived.
In domesticated animals their is no
survival of the fittest.
(that why carefull breeding is so very important)

JMHO

That makes sense, and you also said it in a nice tone. :) I'll have to ask the vet about this. In theory, Kai's immunity level should be boosted but I don't want to go into details. Often, there are people that claim that their dog/s have come in contact with something (parvo or what not) and they were perfectly fine. All dogs are different I guess so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this.

[aly]

You're right that all dogs have different immune systems, etc. However, with puppies, their immune systems aren't as developed so they will almost always contract parvo if exposed to it. Even if an adult dog doesn't catch it after being exposed, that dog can still carry the virus and transmit it to other dogs.

I respect peoples' opinions who consider not vaccinating if it is in the best interest of their individual dog. I don't agree with it much, but I do respect it because I think the people have good intentions. Obviously, they don't want to cause harm to their dogs. However, I have big problems with people who just flat out refuse to go to the vet. And I really strongly disagree with the natural rearing. There's absolutely no point to it. Saying that wolves survived in the wild without vets is true, but as KYS pointed out, there's survival of the fittest. Many wolves died who could have been spared with medical treatment. We've domesticated our dogs and they depend on us. We should do all we can to keep them healthy and not just say, oh well, thats nature's course.

[wolfsoul]

Just to say something about shots, most wild dogs get shots. Canid biologists travel far and wide to make sure that they give wolves and other wild dogs their shots, radio collars or chips, and they take health records of the animal. Then they put drops in the wild dogs' eyes so theyaren't scratchy from the tranqulizers and set them free. So no one can use wild dogs don't get shots as an excuse.

From what i've read, dogs that have lower immunities or allergies are the ones that have bad reactions to shots. If they have a low immunity, they should get their shots so that thier bodies can build an immuntiy to the reactions and give it a boost.

Dog are not wild. They depend on us completely for everything. I respect that some people only want what is best when not taking their dogs to the vet, but it will be very sad when a dog gets very sick and the owner refuses to take it and the dog slowly suffers rather than getting medication or a quicker alternative to a slow painful death.

[cali]

I adivise some of you to read before you write, some people are jumping to the conclusion that my dogs NEVER see a vet, when all I said was that they dont go for every little thing nor do they go annually, if something was horrably wrong we would take them to our vet, yes we have one, a HOLISTIC vet. when we do take them to the vet for titres and their PARVO shot as a pup. yes their parvo shot, that is all they get, however, and not until 16 weeks of age. also when it comes to border collies, a good breeder with working dogs will NOT vaccinate the pups why?? so that only the strong survive to keep the breed healthy unlike most other breeds, BC's are som eof the healthiest around and that is the reason for it.

[Kfamr]

EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP.
THIS PERSON OBVIOULSY JUST WANTED TO START SOMETHING, AS YOU SEE SHE/HE HAS NOT CAME BACK INTO THIS POST FOR A WHILE NOW. LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT WE ALL HAVE OUR DIFFERENT OPINIONS.

[aly]

Cali -

I saw what you said in this thread. But I do remember previous ones where you have caused quite a stir saying you wouldn't go to the vet.

You're offended that people say responsible breeders vaccinate, BUT you just said responsible breeders DON'T vaccinate. So you're doing the same thing that you're getting mad at other people for!

[binka_nugget]

Originally posted by Kfamr
EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP.
THIS PERSON OBVIOULSY JUST WANTED TO START SOMETHING, AS YOU SEE SHE/HE HAS NOT CAME BACK INTO THIS POST FOR A WHILE NOW. LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT WE ALL HAVE OUR DIFFERENT OPINIONS.

Agreed. Everyone has different opinions. We should just leave it at that.

[primabella]

EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP.THIS PERSON OBVIOULSY JUST WANTED TO START SOMETHING, AS YOU SEE SHE/HE HAS NOT CAME BACK INTO THIS POST FOR A WHILE NOW. LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT WE ALL HAVE OUR DIFFERENT OPINIONS.

I mentionned that awhile ago. This is such a waste. No one will agree here.

[cali]

I mean border collies are considered one of the healthier breeds, they have not been bred to death my many breeds and become useless(for there original job I mean) there are few breed specific illnesses, for them, just collie eye, blindness,(more like disablities) and hip displasia, which is relitivly new to the breed, the good breeders(not show breeders in the case of a BC) only go for ability, and health, not for looks, so it is really survival of the fittest for them, because if they cant survive on there own without help from vaccs as a pup how are they going to survive herding for hours on end, getting kicked by the stock etc.. you only want the fittest and healthiest dogs in the breed:)

[aly]

Thanks for the info. It is interesting but you know where I stand on vacs so I won't beat this topic into the ground anymore :p