I have to say something

[Tonya]

Hi, this isn't directed towards anyone in particular. In fact this isn't a thing that I see just at Pet Talk, I hear it from many animal lovers. It really bothers me how I hear things to the sort of "That horrible person bought this animal, they couldn't deal with it and they just gave it up." I've heard that gripe time and time again, different scenarios and different animals.

First I want to say I DO believe that everyone should know what they are getting into before they get an animal. They should do the research. They should be sure they are financially, physically, and mentally capable to take care of the animal. They should be sure that everyone in the home agrees with taking on a new pet.

But on the same line, there are unforeseen circumstances sometimes. You don't always know what is happening. What if that person is dying of cancer? They want their animal to go to a loving home before they leave. They are to stressed to think of a better way to get rid of them, so they leave them at the pound. What if that person is moving across the country to take care of an ailing relative and the relative's home can't have pets?

Or what if they are an irresponsible owner? Do you want to discourage them from giving their animal a better life? Wouldn't you rather see the pet in a good home?

Mistakes happen. I found a small puppy on the side of the road once. Of course I was going to pick him up and take him home. I had no idea what his breed was. I later found out he was a queensland heeler. I had no idea about this little guy's past or about the breed. I tried to keep him. I kept him for probably nine months. He was miserable. He was aggressive, destructive, and depressed. I was afraid to take him to a no kill shelter because I'd seen other pet lovers condemn people who give up their pets. Finally, I decided that he would be happiest out of the city. A rancher answered an ad in the paper. He was so happy to have Ricky. When I went and visited Ricky on the ranch a month later, he was an entirely different dog. I pulled up, and he was out in the field running next to the tractor. It brought tears to my eyes. He was so happy! I was so glad that I gave him a better life instead of trying to make him happy in the city.

My son has had asthma and frequent colds all of his life. His colds and congestion are so bad that he is partially deaf. I just found a few months ago that he is allergic to cats and dogs. My beloved animals are what has benn causing the problems all this time. I am doing everything in the world to keep my pets. The poor guy is getting shots once a week to build his system up. He's on allergy medicine, I have hepa filters, I am washing my pets frequently, dusting and vacuuming everyday, you name it. I am not sure if it is going to work. As you all know, I have a ton of pets. What if my son's allergies don't go away? Do I get rid of my son? Or is some stranger that doesn't know me going to tell a story about how some $%#$ gave up a houseful of animals because she was to busy for them?

Now, like I said before, this isn't towards someone directly. I just want you all to think about this. Please, don't be to quick to judge when someone gives up animals. Even if they are bad owners. If they are bad owners, good riddance. At least they are acknowledging it and giving the animals a better life.

[aly]

I am one of those people who gripes about people giving up pets, HOWEVER of course I understand unforseen circumstances! I actually had a lady with cancer come to my shelter and hand me her three cats. I cried with her and I hugged her and told her they'd be well taken care of. There's a big difference in that situation as opposed to the situations where people come in handing me animals because they're moving to California the next day or some other stupied reason. I highly doubt anybody here is talking about those unforseen situations when we talk poorly of people who give animals away. I think you may be reading a bit too much into it.

I have to witness a lot of bad situations and experience a lot of irresponsible people with all my work in shelters. It is really horrendous and painful to encounter on a daily basis. I think that gives me a right to call Joe Blow stupid and irresponsible for throwing his 13 year old Lab at me saying he's too big (umm yeah, he all of a sudden grew after 13 yrs?).

PS - can you edit out the cuss word? We have some youngsters on the board. Thanks!

[primabella]

I understand what you are saying. Hey, I get very upset when people give up their dogs for stupid reasons (for 'good' reasons, that's a different story) But I did something before that now I hate myself for it.

Last year, I brought a dog home form a BYB. I didn't know she was BYB until I found out what one was. She lied about everything, telling us the dog was 3 months old (he was already huge and obviously previously owned.) We bought the dog on impulse, putting this idea in our minds that he was the right dog for us. Huge mistake. We brought him to the SPCA a day later. I hate myself for doing this. It sort of makes me a hypocrite, doesn't it? But then I learned research and patience are key to getting the right pet for you. It helped me find the right pet: Mickey. The reason I hate seeing people do the mistake I made, is because I know I was one of those people who don't think before they act. I'm surprised no one had actually told me off or given me a hard time about what I did. But in a way I believe I helped save that dog. Staying in that tiny cage in the country, in a cold shed is tortue. He was adorable and gentle, I'm sure he got adopted right away. It's just I felt so guilty for what I did now when I hear people gave away their dogs because he wasn't right for them makes me mad. Maybe it makes me mad at myself I don't know. Does this make any sense? :rolleyes: I don't even know, I think I lost myself back there...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[primabella]

Oh and by the way...


Originally posted by aly
I am one of those people who gripes about people giving up pets, HOWEVER of course I understand unforseen circumstances! I actually had a lady with cancer come to my shelter and hand me her three cats. I cried with her and I hugged her and told her they'd be well taken care of. There's a big difference in that situation as opposed to the situations where people come in handing me animals because they're moving to California the next day or some other stupied reason. I highly doubt anybody here is talking about those unforseen situations when we talk poorly of people who give animals away. I think you may be reading a bit too much into it.

I have to witness a lot of bad situations and experience a lot of irresponsible people with all my work in shelters. It is really horrendous and painful to encounter on a daily basis. I think that gives me a right to call Joe Blow stupid and irresponsible for throwing his 13 year old Lab at me saying he's too big (umm yeah, he all of a sudden grew after 13 yrs?).

PS - can you edit out the cuss word? We have some youngsters on the board. Thanks!

I agree with aly ;)

[wolfsoul]

I once had a gorgeous red siberian husky named Cheeko. He was an unexpected "present" from my grandma who took him from someone who could no longer care for him. I spent over one hundred dollars worth of treats on that dog. But unfortunatly, I was only ten years old, and knew nothing about this breed, and neither did my mom.

He spent his days tied to our clothes line. Never had a walk, never was let off. I wasn't allowed to take him off. My mother was the irresponsible one for letting us keep him in the first place.

And then one day, while I was at school, she brought him to the Spca. It was better for Cheeko. He was a gorgeous husky, I'm sure he got a home right away. We couldn't give him what he needed, and he was such a sweetheart who needed all the love in the world.

[KYS]

I also have no patience when it comes
to Pet owners who give up their dog for "no" good reason,
or do not take proper care of their pets.

I also remember when I was young, I too made
mistakes that I still regret/feel guilty about today.
I think that is why I am a such stickler for pet care.

Their are always exceptions, and sometimes
the kindest thing to do, is to find a good home
for a pet under certain un-foreseen situations.


JMHO

P.S. Tonya
I bet your allergiest told you to keep dogs and
cats out of the house and vacuum.
Also if your child does pet the pets, make
sure he washes his hands right away before
he touces his face etc.
Good luck!
I still take allergy shots, I have taken them off
and on since I was 5 years old.

[Tonya]

Thank you guys for understanding. :) Sorry about the swear word, I just get a little frustrated on this subject.

I think of my pets as my children, so here is another comparison regarding condemning people who give up their animals. Here in California (and probably alot of other places) women were abandoning their unwanted newborns left and right. The babies were getting dumped off just about anywhere and often died. So, there was a new law passed. Just bring the baby to a local hospital, they'll ask no questions and take the baby. I kind of look at animals the same way. If we condemn people for giving their animals up, they are more likely to dump then off on the side of the road. -Or even worse some people kill the unwanted litters.

p.s. KYS, unfortunatly I adopted a declawed kitty, so she has to stay inside. The other one has claws, so I let him out. I keep the big dogs outside and the little one inside. I just mainly try to keep all the animals out of Jaden's room.

[kittens]

of course there are those situations that happen but they are rare, and people giving up on their pets is very common, happens every day. and they , the ones that do that are irresposible, so yes the pet is better off, but not when they have to be pts!
what you did was wonderful. you saved a dog then found him a home to be happy in! nothing at all wrong with that!
I just hate people who treat animals as disposable toys, something to entertain them for a while, til it gets too big or is inconvienent. like the worker guy at my house the other day. he has cats, his wife and he, do. and so does his parents. the parents keep thiers inside...
:D ...but he keeps his outside, he siad the smart ones are still alive, the dumb ones got eaten. oookkkkkkkkkI was ready to really boil over but he left just ehn for a minute, good thing.
stupid jackass, the dumb one is the one telling the story! they stratched the furniture. oh pleeeeease! I just can't say anything else, he was just too stupid to get it. and I told him about Ca;llie, how she used to pee outside the box but doesn't but dumb braindead morons like that won't listen.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
hey maybe one of these days he will get shocked while working...just minorly of course!:rolleyes:

[carole]

Yes Tonya there are always exceptions to the rules,but there are too many people who do treat animals as disposable these days and its very sad indeed
Keep trying with those allergies, as ive mentioned many times i was allergic to cats for over 18yrs, just developed suddenly, my son has asthma too, and now i have had Ash for three yrs and Lexie for 3mths, and my allergy has improved, you can desensitize yourself, and thats what i think has happened in my case, i do still have the allergy and problems, but they are much less severe than before, so DONOT give up on your pets, because of your sons allergy, things may improve, good luck .

[Tonya]

Thanks for your support, Carole! It will be a few years worth of trying before I give up on my pets! I love them way to much. Fortunately, if all else fails, my brother did say that he will take ALL of my pets. :) My dogs and cats go over there all the time, so it wouldn't be totally traumatic for them.

[Twisterdog]

There's a world of difference between giving up a pet because your child is allergic to it, and giving up a pet because of any number of stupid reasons we hear at shelters all the time .... "He got too big. We didn't know he would shed. She barks too much. He jumps on me. She keeps having kittens. She sheds on the new couch. We didn't know they would get any bigger. Etc, etc."

Maybe one out of fifty people that give up a pet to a shelter has a valid, legitimate reason ... and those case are heartbreaking for everyone involved. The other forty-nine losers just serve to make shelter workers and pet-lovers everywhere very irritated, bitter and angry.


unfortunatly I adopted a declawed kitty, so she has to stay inside. The other one has claws, so I let him out. I keep the big dogs outside and the little one inside.

And, here's my sure-to-be-unpopular opinion on this matter: While I'm happy to see you keep your declawed cat inside, IMO, your other cat should stay inside as well. It's a hellishly dangerous world for cats outside, and the lifespan of an outdoor cat is a fraction of the lifespan of an indoor cat. Everyday I see cats that have been hit by cars, killed by dogs, caught in traps, tortured by evil people, etc. Not to mention the fact that it is incredibly rude, IMO, to put your pet outside where it becomes a bother to your neighbors. My dogs stay on my property ... why do my neighbors cats come into my flower beds and use them as litter boxes, walk on my cars and make my dogs bark incessently at 3:00 am? Not fair.

I also hate to see "big dogs outside and the little one inside". I see this all the time with my customers dogs ... the little poodle we just groomed is laying on the couch, and the big lab mix is staring sadly in through the patio door, because it can't come inside, too. I think ALL dogs and ALL cats belong in the house with their families, regardless of claws or size.

I personally believe that if one cannot/will not keep their pets inside with the family, that the pet most likely would be better off in another home. Just my two cents worth, coming from fifteen years of experience in animal related work.

[aly]

Originally posted by Twisterdog

I also hate to see "big dogs outside and the little one inside". I see this all the time with my customers dogs ... the little poodle we just groomed is laying on the couch, and the big lab mix is staring sadly in through the patio door, because it can't come inside, too. I think ALL dogs and ALL cats belong in the house with their families, regardless of claws or size.

I personally believe that if one cannot/will not keep their pets inside with the family, that the pet most likely would be better off in another home. Just my two cents worth, coming from fifteen years of experience in animal related work.

I absolutely agree. The little dog inside/big dog outside thing just kills me. People come in to my shelter ALL the time saying they have "big outside dogs" and need a "little inside dog". I inform them that every single one of our dogs are INDOOR dogs, even the 100+ pound doggies!

[wolf_Q]

I absolutely agree with you Twisterdog!!!

[kittens]

twisterdog, hear hear! I agree totally! well I do think dogs should be able to go outside, but not be kept out there. parks are a good place to take them to run.

[Tonya]

My big dogs once were house dogs, but like I said, my son is allergic to animals. Do you think it would be better to rehome them? We're an active family outside most of the day everyday, so I don't think there is anything wrong with it. We take our dogs everywhere we go.

I really don't want to get into the grand cat debate again. Ron was an outdoor cat to start with. I tried my darndest to keep him inside. He was miserable, he got fat, and all he did was try to get out. Finally, he got loose one day, and I found out that he just wanted to roll in the grass. I don't want to take that freedom from him. I'd feel bad making him stare out the window all day when he wants to go out. I'd rather give him a short happy life then a long depressed one. He rarely leaves my yard. He lies with the neighbor cat all day long and enjoys the sun. I am in a low traffic area, in a well established neighborhood (no wild animals).

I think alot of you are way to critical. Just like child rearing, there are a thousand ways and not everyone agrees. Just because one of us chooses to do things one way and you the other, doesn't mean that we are horrible owners. Most of us love our animals more then anything and want to do what it best. I understand that many of you have seen preventable animals deaths and injuries. So have I.

[carole]

I agree with you 100 per cent Tonya!!!!!!!!!!!!! how did this become the indoor/outdoor debate yet again.?:)

[aly]

My indoor cats (and dogs) are NOT miserable. They are all much, much happier than they would be if they were outside. I found Shiloh outside and made her 100% indoors. She was scared the first night, but since then has NEVER wanted anything to do with the outdoors.

There are a few exceptions of cats who you absolutely cannot make an indoor cat out of, yes. But most of them should be inside.

I don't want to draw this out into a 50 page argument, but I just don't want people to start saying animals are miserable indoors because that is just not true.

[Tonya]

It's an individual basis, Aly. Which is all I am trying to say about this whole criticism deal.

I have this other white stray that I have been feeding for three years. This cat is very wild. We got to the point where he'd eat with me sitting there. I trapped him two years ago and neutered him and got his shots. When I brought him home, I tried to keep him inside. It made the cat and I's relationship regress. I have not been able to get within 20 feet of him since then. I don't know if he'll ever trust me again. Anyways, if I ever do tame that cat, I will not force him be inside. All he knows is outdoors. Of course, if he wants to be inside, he is more then welcome. By the way, he is so beautiful! He's long haired, all white, with these gorgeous blue crossed eyes.

Raven is more then happy to spend the rest of her life in our bedroom. She's never been outside once since I adopted her at 5 weeks old. She is totally fine with that, as well as many other cats.

Ron, on the other hand...life is all about the outdoors. I managed to keep him inside for a few months, but he is so determined to be outside. It isn't like I ask him to go out or throw him out. He hides by the door and sprints past me whenever I open it. I just don't make a big deal out of it. I don't chase him all over the neighborhood trying to get him back inside. I do bring him in at night because it seems like cat fights tend to happen at night.

[carole]

Aly I don't think she was inferring your indoor cats were miserable, well it was not her intention I believe.
This debate has gone on and on before, and everyone knows where everyone stands on it I think.
Everyone is entitled to make the choices that they think is right and suits their circumstances for their pets.
I personally have no problem with indoor cats only, and I don't judge anyone, whats right for you is right for you.
cheers.:)

[kittens]

yep it is each cat owners choice. but when an outdoor cat gets killed by a car, a dog, or some sicko, how will you feel?
also there are diseases they can catch from other cats.
I know you love your cat, and I would hate to see anything happen to him/her. maybe you could take the cat outside with you on a leash?

[kittens]

well I read your post again, and if that cat is that determined to go ouot, then there is not alot you can do, but I just wonder, how do you cat him to get him in at night?

[Tonya]

I say the magic words. "Want some food, Ron?" lol. He comes running!

[CathyBogart]

Several people on the rat forum have stated that in the UK it is considered cruel to "trap" cats indoors. I don't think either strategy is cruel, I just thought it was interesting how opinions can vary so much from place to place. My own cat comes and goes as she pleases, and has for the past nine years.

[NoahsMommy]

First, the indoor cat thing. Plain and simple, where I live it is NOT safe for any of my cats to be outside. As it is, we allow them out on our balcony, INSIDE a 8 x 5 enclosure my hubby and I built. As soon as the tarp on the top flies up or an outdoor cat shrieks (usually from yet ANOTHER cat fight), they want IN, and NOW!!! I take my ques from my cats and my cats prefer living the luxurious indoor life.

(Twisterdog...I agree completely!!!)

As far as animals being given up. I have a "strange" point of veiw. We volunteer at our Humane Society every week (more for me lately, not working) and see a ton of truely wonderful animals come in. I don't condemn those that bring them in simply because the animals will now go to their forever home...a home the deserve. Our shelter is great, there are a ton of people to love the animals and they all seem very happy. I'm often sad to see them go to a new home, but they seem to feel the opposite. Sometimes, the shelter is a better place for animals that aren't "welcome" in their current homes. If someone with allergies isn't willing to take an Allegra every now and then, they don't deserve to have those animals.

When we got married, David had a rabbit. It was hard having the time for her, as they are much like dogs in the time department. We decided to get her a friend, so she'd have something to do while we weren't able to share our time with her. We quickly discovered that it didn't help and she got unhappy. :( We knew it was time to find a new, deserving home for her. We didn't have a time limit, we just HAD to find the right person. It wasn't fair to them if we kept them just to be "responsible". After about a year of looking for a good home, I found one in a co-worker. :) She is utterly in love with Faith and Thomas...spends every lunch hour (drives 20 minutes to see them at lunch!) with them, spends nights reading to them, Faith sleeps in her bed, etc, etc, etc. I get to keep up with how they are doing and they are much happier than they were at our house. Recently, I learned that they got a new bunny friend...Angel. :)

[aly]

I definately think you did what was best for your buns Kelly. In fact, your story made me cry. That is truly pure love. You made a selfless act for their happiness. I don't think anyone could look down on you for that.

I agree with your other opinions about giving animals up because the shelters I work at are AWESOME too. However, its when they are dumped at less comfortable shelters that it gets really bad :(

I've never been rude to anyone dropping an animal off at my shelter, even if I disagree with their reasons and think they are irresponsible. I just don't want to discourage them from bringing another animal in to us if (heaven forbid) a situation should ever come up with them again. But trust me, in my mind I am cussing them out! (if they don't have a REALLY good reason for dumping their babies).

[NoahsMommy]

Awww, thanks Aly. I still feel totally bad about it...I grew up in a family where my mom was constantly finding new homes for our animals because she didn't want them any more. :( :( :( I didn't want people to think I was the same way. Thanks so much for understanding. :)

[wolfsoul]

Well, I suppose I may be battered for saying this, but my cat, Sara, is both an indoor and outdoor cat. Although she prefers the outdoors, she never strays far. She only stays in mine and my neighbor's yard (who doesn't mind at all).

I remember being very young, actually trying to get her to walk down the road with me lol. Well, needless to say, I was torn to shreds as soon as I passed my neighbors house.

[cowlovr9797]

[QUOTE]
My son has had asthma and frequent colds all of his life. His colds and congestion are so bad that he is partially deaf. I just found a few months ago that he is allergic to cats and dogs. My beloved animals are what has benn causing the problems all this time. I am doing everything in the world to keep my pets. The poor guy is getting shots once a week to build his system up. He's on allergy medicine, I have hepa filters, I am washing my pets frequently, dusting and vacuuming everyday, you name it. I am not sure if it is going to work. As you all know, I have a ton of pets. What if my son's allergies don't go away? Do I get rid of my son? Or is some stranger that doesn't know me going to tell a story about how some $%#$ gave up a houseful of animals because she was to busy for them?

QUOTE]
i have good news to you there is a dog that is hypo alergenic and they are called bichon frise's. they don't shed and we have three of them even though two of my brothers have really bad asthma. they have human like hair and really easy to groom we all love them

[Tonya]

(((((((((cowlovr9797))))))) Thank you. :)

[Heather Wallace]

I also agree that people should not get animals on a wim but think about if they can or if they want to look after an animal.

Good topic.xx

[Heather Wallace]

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW i ALSO HAVE SEVERE ASTHMA, i DON'T CARE THOUGH, i WOULD RATHER HAVE THE LOVE OF MY ANIMALS AND PUT UP WITH MY ASTHMA - i COULDN'T BE WITHOUT MY FURRY FAMILY!!!

[CathyBogart]

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

[Twisterdog]

My big dogs once were house dogs, but like I said, my son is allergic to animals. Do you think it would be better to rehome them? We're an active family outside most of the day everyday, so I don't think there is anything wrong with it. We take our dogs everywhere we go.

Well, that's hard for anyone but you to determine. If you truly do spend a lot of time outside with your pets everyday, and you live in a mild climate, and your dogs are types that aren't easy to rehome (i.e., large black lab mixes) ... then perhaps they are indeed better off with you. However, if you could find a home for your dogs where they would be in the house with a loving family all day and all night, then perhaps they are better off being rehomed. Only you can say ... and you can only determine this if you look at what is in the best interest of your dogs themselves, and try not to let your emotions cloud your judgement. I am a little confused, though ... your son is allergic to dogs .... yet he spends time with them outside, and you take your dogs everywhere you go? This doesn't bother your son's allergies?





It's an individual basis .... Everyone is entitled to make the choices that they think is right and suits their circumstances for their pets.

Not necessarily. If my neighbor choose to let his cats roam free, and his cats come onto my property and cause problems for me ... then my neighbor is NOT entitled to make that choice, and it ceases to be on an individual basis. If his cats stay 100% on his property ... fine. But cats rarely do that. I choose not to own a cat, because I am allergic to them, and because I have dogs that think cats are snacks with fur. It is rude ... not to mention illegal here ... for my neighbors to let their cats wander onto my property, shedding on my lawn furniture, making me sneeze, pooping in my flower beds (what if I were pregnant?), using my trees as scratching posts and my cars as sidewalks. Not to mention how very, very unpleasant it is for me when I have to go rake up the pieces (literally) of a cat that was stupid enough to jump into my dog's yard. If I wanted to put up with all this, I'd get a cat of my own. I shouldn't have to put up with it from my neighbor's cats. My neighbors aren't exposed to my dogs.

[Nomilynn]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Not necessarily. If my neighbor choose to let his cats roam free, and his cats come onto my property and cause problems for me ... then my neighbor is NOT entitled to make that choice, and it ceases to be on an individual basis. If his cats stay 100% on his property ... fine. But cats rarely do that. I choose not to own a cat, because I am allergic to them, and because I have dogs that think cats are snacks with fur. It is rude ... not to mention illegal here ... for my neighbors to let their cats wander onto my property, shedding on my lawn furniture, making me sneeze, pooping in my flower beds (what if I were pregnant?), using my trees as scratching posts and my cars as sidewalks. Not to mention how very, very unpleasant it is for me when I have to go rake up the pieces (literally) of a cat that was stupid enough to jump into my dog's yard. If I wanted to put up with all this, I'd get a cat of my own. I shouldn't have to put up with it from my neighbor's cats. My neighbors aren't exposed to my dogs.

While I agree that cats who are allowed to roam make for pests, and it's very inconsiderate of the owners to not keep them in their own yards, I think your description of a "stupid cat" is a bit out of line. That mental image is not very pleasant and you could have said it in a nicer way. It's tragic when someone loses a pet - REGARDLESS of the situation. Yes, if a cat jumped into your yard, and it was sadly killed, it would be one of those situations that could have been prevented with a bit more vigilance and care on the cat owners part.. but do you really have to describe it so crudely? :(

[NoahsMommy]

Whoa....that's a pretty harsh way to put that Twisterdog. I mean...ick!! :( Would you mind censoring that a bit? Your post made me (and a few others ) literaly ill. :(

It is illegal in California to have cats roaming as well. I don't think its widely enforced though. Which is sad....

[popcornbird]

Woah TwisterDog! :eek: That was HARSH! My neighbors' cats come to my yard all the time and I honestly don't have a problem with it. They just come, walk around on the fence, relax in the sun for a bit and get up and go some place else. Honestly, I cannot compare roaming cats to roaming dogs. Totally different animal, totally different behaviors. It doesn't compare in any way. Cats roaming around usually just walk around minding there own business. They usually will never hurt a human or child, and do not cause any threat to local inhabitants. They might stomp/poop in gardens, but I have grown many vegetable plants and flowers in our garden, and the cats that come never touched them, nor have they ever pooped in our yard. I don't have a problem with cats roaming free. They mind their own business.

Now for dogs roaming free, I have met several, and they were NIGHTMARES! They had no one with them, roaming free, running back and forth across the streets, chasing people and barking there heads off, and trying to bite anyone they could get their teeth on. A dog roaming alone can very well be a threat to people/children/other pets on the streets. *Note, I'm talking about dogs roaming ALONE, not those with owners and on a leash* Dogs don't normally roam alone, but sometimes irresponsible owners don't care to securely lock their dogs in their yards and let them go out into the dangerous world, where not only can there be dangers for the dog, but an unattended dog *can* very well be a danger for people and other smaller pets. I don't mean to condemn dogs in ANY way. I just mean to say that roaming cats are not comparable to roaming dogs. I would rather have 10 cats roaming alone on my street, than one dog roaming alone with no guardian.

I don't have a problem wth cats roaming in my yard as long as they don't cause mischief or poop. They never have. Kitties have a place in this world too, and the outdoors in not just for humans. Its for animals too, and animals don't need a visa to go anywhere. They just go. :p Just my 2 cents.

[tikeyas_mom]

wow twisterdog, I think you are over reacting, what if you were pregnant?? what different does it make?? it doesnt! My cat is an outdoor cat it would be crule to keep him in after all his life being a wild outside cat, He comes in at night to sleep and during the day at times to eat and drink, other times of the day he is out an about playing with other cats and birds and catching mice. big fat deal, he is a cat it is his nature. and he is sweet just the same ;) .

[aly]

She's referring to being pregnant because of the whole issue with litter boxes and pregnant women.

I don't think a roaming cat is "stupid", but rather just owned by irresponsible people. I agree with everything else Twisterdog said, but could have done without the graphic part :( (I'm too sensitive, I know).

PCB - It seems that almost every dog experience you have is negative for some reason. You should go to a shelter near you and play with some puppies. I just get the feeling you're not comfortable around dogs and maybe that would help.

[Logan]

I just read through this whole post, and I've totally forgotten what the original purpose was!! :o I promise I'll go back and reread it, Tonya. With the exception of our birds, all of our other pets (cats and dogs) are indoor/outdoor. I wish Murphy and Lilly would enjoy being outside a little more, to tell you the truth. Honey keeps a pretty good balance, but there are nights that she simply refuses to come in. I have finally gotten over worrying about her, and sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night, I go to the door and call her, and she'll come on in. Other nights, she is too busy staring at a tree (possums, for sure), and she simply isn't interested in coming in. As she has gotten older, and I have gotten more accustomed to her personality, I have relaxed more with letting her stay outside (properly fenced, of course).

As for the cats, that is a tough subject for many, I know, and we have been round and round about it. I hope that I am not judged for allowing my cats to come and go. Butter simply could not be an indoor only cat, given his "semi feral" beginnings. But the nice thing is that he really enjoys coming inside when he is ready. And Mimi, in her advanced years, hardly ever ventures farther than the deck, or a shady spot in the yard. I have "introduced" my neighbors on either side to our cats, and warned them of Butter's personality. I would never want one of them to be bitten or scratched by him. He can act quite sweet, then "get" you when you least expect it. And I've also told them that if I need to do something to keep them from coming into their yard, all they need to do is tell me (not that I know how I would fix that :o ). The nice thing is that neither of them are bothered by the cats. In fact, both have told me, over and over, that they enjoy watching Butter climbing trees, sunning in their yard, and the fact that he is a great mouser and keeps our homes free from those pesky rodents. Plus on one side, there is a little girl who is about 1 year old, and she LOVES to see our animals, all of them! So it is a win, win situation for us. If we were on a busy city street, then I would have to do something else, but thankfully, we are on a quiet cul-de-sac and there is little or no traffic here. As long as they stick close to home, which they do, then I am willing to take the risk and allow them outdoors.

[popcornbird]

Yep, Aly misunderstand me yet again. :sigh:

I didn't mean to say anything bad about dogs. That was NOT my intention, and I KNOW most dogs are wonderful, sweet balls of fluff, no matter there size. What I was saying is that dogs roaming free with no owner, ALONE *can* be a danger. I have heard this from many dog owners on PT, that they wouldn't ever trust their dogs alone around young kids. Dogs are big, strong animals, and there have been many people hurt by free roaming dogs in the past. Do I mean dogs are bad or rough or whatever by saying this? NO! I'm just saying that dogs roaming alone can be dangerous, because if not raised properly, they can cause danger. I'm not specifying any *type* of dog here. ANY dog that has irresponsible owners and wrong training can turn out like that. The only reason I pointed this out is because Twisterdog was comparing free roaming cats to free roaming dogs, and I don't believe its something even comparable. Other than that, I have met very very sweet puppies, so I KNOW that dogs are wonderful, sweet animals. Its just that a free roaming dog is not comparable to a free roaming cat. Cats cannot really cause any hazard, no matter how vicious they may be.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by aly
I don't think a roaming cat is "stupid", but rather just owned by irresponsible people

Not all inside/outside cats are owned by irresponsible people. I have litter trays to encourage my cats to do their business in my home not others gardens.

We have decided that as we live on a quiet road with a garden, that we want our cats to be able to experience freedom, to have a full cat life.

Bear in mind in this country, most people think USA people are very cruel for caging animals inside 24/7 with no/little access outside.

My personal opinion is whatever a loving owner knows is right for their animals is right, be that inside or Inside/outside. I would NEVER call someone for keeping there pets in 24/7, as I respect others decisions

Please do not condemn people with a different lifestyle choices than yourself.

[aly]

I didn't misunderstand you PCB. I knew you weren't badmouthing dogs. I was just sensing some uncomfort. Nothing wrong with that. I just wanted you to have some positive experiences too :)

PayItForward - I have actually read the way you introduce your cats to the outside and completely respect it. I don't think you're irresponsible at all. I have learned from this board that its a lot different in other countries and I respect that. I disagree, but completely respect. I didn't mean to say that *ALL* outdoor cat owners are irresponsible. I meant that *SOME* or even *MOST* are (especially in the US). I just got carrried away and didn't pay attention to my typing.

My cats have a full cat life too :)

[tikeyas_mom]

we tried making Fuzzy a house cat when we firt got him, but he was 6 years old and hated staying in, he would just sare outside and meow at the door and wouldent use his litter box, so one day we let him out and he came back about an hour later for food, my cat does his buisneaa (poop) in our yard under our fron window thingy, it is ok, is itnt in anyones way or anything. He pees all over his naibourhood because he likes to mark his territory, he is neutered. My cat loves us and we love him just the same as anyone here loves there inside cats, I personally think it is crule to keep a cat inside when it has been an outside cat all its life. JMHO..

[Tonya]

Twisterdog, pet dander settles on the couches, carpets, bedding, and is nearly impossible to remove even with Hepa filters. Being outdoors with the pets isn't perfect, but it is much more tolerable for my son.

[Twisterdog]

Sorry if I offended people ... sometimes I forget that this board is way more sensitive to things like that than most other boards. However, if it's offensive and sickening for you to just read about it, imagine how it is for me to DEAL with it. THAT was my point ... that outdoor cats often meet with horrible deaths.

And, sorry, I have to say that I stand by my "stupid cat" comment. I have TEN dogs ... terriers who jump up against the fence screaming, snarling, drooling and barking when they see a cat. These dogs do not in any way, shape or form give the impression that they want to do anything less than kill that cat. Now ... honestly ... would a smart cat jump off the top of a six foot wooden privacy fence into a yard full of dogs behaving like that? Ummmm ... I don't think so.

And, yes, Tikeyas mom, it makes a world of difference if you are pregnant and are near cat feces. Perhaps you should do some research on that if you are not familar with the issue.

[CathyBogart]

Actually, the risk of a pregnant woman contracting something from cat feces is next to nil. I did quite a bit of research on it when I got pregnant. ^_^

I'm so glad that my cat stays on my property. I think now I'm going to ask my neighbors if my cat ever bothers them, and have my dad build her an unclimbable fence if it turns out that she does. (We had one at our old house to keep my neighbor's furry horde out of our yard. ^_^)

Twisterdog: You'd think the owners would learn after losing a cat like that! Stupid people! (Oh, and I wasn't offended by your post, and actually didn't find it graphic. I just abstained from letting myself see that mental picture.)


My father has a good friend who makes a living by his garden. He grows some obscenely rare types of flowers or something, and that's how he gets his money. He has a neighbor who has MANY MANY indoor/outdoor cats that were constantly messing in his garden. He spoke to her at length about it, and when his being polite didn't work, he started trapping them and taking them to the Humane Society. The woman kept getting them back, so finally he resorted to giving them to an out-of town friend and having the friend drop them at the HS in his area. Sad, but it's the price she paid for messing up his livelihood.

[Tonya]

All my neighbors have cats. They have always came to my house, even before I had Ron outside. For some reason, they enjoy my yard. I never understood why since I have big dogs that love to chase them. They probably like to tease my dogs. lol On any given day, I have 4 or 5 cats laying on my car.

It doesn't bother me, but I'm sure if I didn't have a cat myself, I may get upset. The only thing that I have an ongoing fight with is getting my neighbor to spay and neuter her pets. I fought and fought with her about it, even offered to pay. She finally told me she spayed them, so I dropped it. Then the other day she says "Cali had kittens!" That's one of the mom's kittens. Apparently she only spayed the parents, not the two generations of kittens she has. grrrrr.

[CathyBogart]

At that point, I'd take 'em in to be spayed without consulting her. Yay for low-cost clinics!

[Tonya]

My brother and his wife are vet techs. The vet charges me $20 and also lends me the cages to trap them.

[CathyBogart]

Well then, Go for it! ^_^ Unless you already are, in which case...YAY!

[Heather Wallace]

Originally posted by WolfChan
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

I wasn't, just making a point! If that's ok?

[carole]

I think this thread originally started with Tonya telling us about her son's allergies and her pets and what to do, for some reason it ended up in the outdoor/indoor debate again.

Twisterdog, I have to say you would find it hard living in New Zealand where all cats are allowed to roam free, and to be honest most of the population do not seem to mind, infact they enjoy other people's cats, but then New Zealanders are very laid back , easy going people in general.

Actually the cats do serve a purpose as well, they help keep vermin at bay, and do the community a service.

Most people do not object to cats doing their poops in their gardens either, good fertiliser, however I am sure there are a few who certainly do.

New Zealand has a lot less predators and diseases that are harmful to the cat for one thing, but yes there are always some risks.

New Zealand is a very cat loving society, and therefore the tolerance is high i suppose.

I have said this all before, but as the subject just keeps coming up, I feel it necessary to put these points forward.

Payitforward and I are both responsible owners and our cats live similar if not identical lives.

It is a personal choice, which suits your circumstances and no-one should be condemed either way, for keeping your cats indoors or outdoors, or both.

I have the utmost respect for anyone who keeps their cats permanently indoors, they obviously do so because that is what is best for for their pet, but others should not be judged for choosing to have an indoor/outdoor pet either.

[kittens]

I took Callie to the vet the other day, and the vet told me she has a friend who is also a vet, and has a cat, and the cat is determined to be outside. even after she hired an animal behavorist... sooo, I'm sorry, I guess there ARE some cats that just have to be out there.

just wanted to tell you that.:)