death from guns -- statistics

[wolfsoul]

I watched a movie today in CAPP, and it was about the amount of people who die from gunshot wounds each year. Australia has 65 people die a year, Britain has 68 people die, Canada has 161, Germany has 361, and America tops that charts at 11, 127 deaths from gunshot wounds a year! :eek:

I thought it was odd -- Some Americans on the documentary said what they had thought. One said "Americans watch the most violent action movies" but statistics show that Canadians do. One said "Americans listen to the hardest rock music" but Germans do.

What do you think? I never really thought of America as too much different from Canada? I thought it was weird, and also kinda sad that they would make us watch this movie so we can be "prepared" to travel to the US. It's kinda mean...:o

[Nomilynn]

I think it has a lot to do with gun laws. Guns aren't accessible up here like they are in the US. At the hotel where my parents work (it's in Oregon) people have left loaded guns in their hotel rooms!! :eek: In Canada, because you have to have SOOO many permits, I think it makes them less accessible (whoa.. cannot spell tonight! ;))

[RICHARD]

unless you are pistol whipped, the line, "guns kill people" is kinda funny.......

bullets kill people....;)

[babolaypo65]

I'd agree it probably has a lot to do with access. First off, I should say that I was raised around guns. We were also taught to respect the rules my father set regarding the guns. For example I never would have considered touching one of them without his permission. (he also made them inoperable, unusable). We each had to go to multiple classes and learn how to use them (including my mother). But then it was our choice if you wanted to take up hunting, or target shooting. We weren't required to.

I digress... I think guns are much too accessible here, and you can get too many kinds (assault rifles). I've spent a lot (a lot) of time in Canada, and would agree that it's just different there. Better, in my opinion, with respect to gun laws. You CAN, in Canada, get a gun for certain specific reasons. Hunting is now banned (heck, go to Alberta in the fall!). But it's just not the same as it is down here.

Here in New Mexico, I'm sad to say, they passed a carry law, essentially meaning you can carry a gun on your person, just as you can in Texas. I know it was caught up in the courts for a while. I hadn't heard whether or not the fight was resolved, but last week I was walking out of a theater (inside, in the hall) and saw a guy in jeans with a holster and a .357. It upset me a great deal. He may have been a cop, sure, but he had no other "stuff" on his belt. Just a gun.

New Mexico is my home. My family has been here for over a hundred years, but if anything were to make me leave, it might be this new law. I don't want to sit in a theater knowing that the guy next to me might have a gun, and might be uneducated about its safe carry and use. (The new law requires classes, but as with now there's no way for me to know if the guy sitting next to me has a REGISTERED gun, or a permit to carry. maybe I'll start asking, since they will be required to carry the permit).

Wolfsoul: two things I'm curious about.... what does CAPP stand for, and what was the movie you watched?

[Nomilynn]

what does CAPP stand for

I can answer that part ;) It's Career and Personal Planning, a really lame course that the BC gov't thought would be good for students to have before they "blossom" into the real world. There is a whole lot of goal setting (at 16 did you really have any clue what you would want to do forEVER?) and within CAPP you get some work experience hours. With my experience hours I helped with vaccinations at the school (and it worked, I don't want to be a nurse) and I also job shadowed some elementary school teachers (hmm.. don't want to be a elementary school teacher either!!). I think it did some resume teaching as well, but then I took CAPP seven years ago (OMG I'M OLD) so the curriculum might have changed by now.

I agree, it's scary to know that people around you are allowed to carry concealed weapons. My friend is a cop and I don't even know if HE is allowed a concealed backup gun. Perhaps in certain situations. In Canada, it's against the law to carry a concealed weapon in your car or on your person (I think). Also, you now have to have a lisence (looks like a driver's lisence) to have a gun at all. They do criminal background checks and stuff before you qualify. I think the strict gun laws in Canada do make a difference :)

[Randi]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Maybe I'll start asking, since they will be required to carry the permit).
You better not, you might get shot!!! :eek: ;)

Now seriously, I think Nomilynn is right. It has to do with access - the more access you get, the more you tend to use it. I also think that a lot of people have this access for no good reason! It's horrendous!! :mad:

We met a girl from Texas on our holiday in Dom Rep., she told us that she could not sleep unless she had her gun under the pillow. :eek: She is not living in a rough neighborhood, but in a big nice house in a quiet area.

I don't know about the statistic in Denmark concerning killings by guns, but I'll try and find out.

[catland]

a big part is a lack of education - which is crazy because there are many people who are very willing to educate people to become responsible gun owners. We own a gun and go target shooting, but that puppy is empty and locked up at home. I was nervous around it at first, but now its not so bad.

But I always treat it like it is loaded, even when I'm 100% sure that it isn't.

[babolaypo65]

I think education is certainly part of it, especially as far as accidents are concerned.

[Desert Arabian]

I do find those statistics very shocking. When it comes to firearms, I am all over the place.

I am amazed at how easy it is for someone to get a gun. FOX 6 local news did an under cover investigation, where they went to gun shows and tried to by a gun. The news anchor "bought" an AK-47...with out a background check, ID check, nothing! The dealer told the reporter the price, he reporter paid, and the dealer handed in the gun!

HOWEVER---when you go through a special shop, such as Gander Mountain or Cabela's or something like that, you have to have an extensive background check. You have to fill out pages of paper work, show your ID, and they even call the Federal Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms to get your history, to see if you are a criminal or not.

I have been around firearms my whole life. My father is a military gun collector, he has an extensive collection. He had to take a special test and get a license to purchase, collect, and travel with firearms. The license allows him to travel the states with the firearms in the car, for when he goes to shooting competitions.

I personally use firearms...hunting, trap shooting, skeet shooting, etc. I am very strict when it comes to gun safety...sometimes when we are out hunting, I correct/yell at my own dad when he does something wrong with his firearm (I mean, carrying-wise, if he crosses my range of fire). At hunters safety classes that is all we pound into the students heads: gun safety. We kick out any student who does not take it seriously or fool around with the subject.

Overall, I think guns aren't an issue when they are in good hands, when they are in the wrong hands, then my views change to deal with that issue.

WOW...talk about total rant, I hope I stuck to the subject, lol!!

[Cheshirekatt]

I'd take on a loaded pit bull over a loaded gun any day...... :D

[wolfsoul]

Thanks for all of the info everyone :)


Wolfsoul: two things I'm curious about.... what does CAPP stand for, and what was the movie you watched?
Nommilynn is correct, it stands for Career and Personal Planning. It is actually much more than just that though. You learn about careers of course, but also family life, safe sex, STDs, some pshycology, bullying, resumes, interviewing, and some things that don't even really make sense to put in that class lol. It's a very boring class, but mine's not too bad because it's in a computer lab and when we are done our work I get to go on PT :D But our school sucks and they disabled our computers from posting anything :(

I can't remember what this movie was called, but we watched a similar one as well, called Bowling for Columbine. It's not even out yet, so my teacher was lucky to get it :D It talked about guns, the Columbine shooting, and even showed real footage of it :eek: It was a pretty graphic movie, and showed lots of people actually being shot, it was quite sad...

It also talked alot about how the American government spends it's money, and it was quite shocking...:o ....I know all of you have heard of it probably, but I just learned that a couple years ago Clinton bombed a "bomb factory" and found out that they were actually making aspirin..I almost cried when I saw how sad the workers were...

[babolaypo65]

It's a good discussion to have, especially with people from different backgrounds, countries and different cultures. We all have such different experiences with guns, and therefore differing views. I learned a lot.


Originally posted by wolfsoul
Thanks for all of the info everyone :)

[carole]

In New Zealand you can have a gun licence for a gun for hunting, you cannot own a gun for protection. like a handgun for instance.
'We have had some fatal shootings recently of deer hunters shooting another hunter by mistake, but we would have a very low death rate from guns, even our Police are not armed, only the armed offenders squad and special units like that.
I donot want to see a change in this and become as it is in parts of America for obvious reasons.

[iceyshiver21]

Everything is in the people....I was brought up around guns, Ive always had acess and do at this moment. But heres the difference....My dad brought us up this way-

Born-5 Years-You touch MY guns and I'll make you sit in the corner for a year and then you'll only eat soap!

6-10years- Do you want to be grounded for the rest of your life??

11-12- You DONT ever touch them with out me being there and my premission

13-15- Always ask before you go shooting and tell me where your going.

He mad us belive all hell would break loss if we so much as touched a gun. Then we we reached the right age he taught us well and enrolled us in gun training. Next year he will be teaching gun training. My grandpa and him have spent so much time around guns that it amazes me. I think everyone should learn to use a gun, but with the rught teachings....its hard to draw the line and everything is different for everyone because we are creatures of our enviroments. We are fools to think that we can take away all the guns leaveing the people who plan on comminting a crime anyway to hide theirs..I think its all in how strict we are and how we are brought up.

[PayItForward]

I have not seen a real loaded gun & I hope never to see one. :eek:

I know some people have guns in England (i.e. 'Hobby Gun Club People' have too have their guns locked away unloaded at the club. Farmers can have unloaded guns locked on their premises.)

The thought of some of the idiots I see daily, owning guns scares me.


but we watched a similar one as well, called Bowling for Columbine. It's not even out yet, so my teacher was lucky to get it It talked about guns, the Columbine shooting, and even showed real footage of it It was a pretty graphic movie, and showed lots of people actually being shot, it was quite sad...

Me & PaysForIt watched this film recently, I cried. How sad that 6 year old girl gunned down in her school & all those children & that teacher died at Columbine. :(

I don't think anyone in England should have a gun, why would you need one ?

People don't hunt in England. (Fish...yes. Blood hunts...Sadly Yes. But it is not normal to go out with a gun to kill an animal/human)

[babolaypo65]

Since the subject of Bowling for Columbine came up, I think its important to point out that while we each have differing views regarding gun ownership, rights... the kids who did the Columbine killings had access to weapons that NO kid should ever have access to (grenades, automatic weapons...) And in my opinion, several of those weapons should NOT BE SOLD legally, ever. You don't need automatic weapons to hunt, and they aren't useful for target shooting. Their usefulness for home protection could, perhaps, be debated, but when weighed against the negative potential outcomes, I think they should not be sold. Period.

[RICHARD]

guns are not dangerous.

it's the moron pulling the triggers.

i like guns in the way they are styled and the precision involved in sport shooing.

no, i do not NRA or think guns should be banned or taken away.

the laws need to be changed THIS way.

you purchase a gun you go thru the background check

you purchase a gun, you are responsible for it until you sell it or pass it to a child(18 yearsold)/relative/spouse. you still are responsible for it until the paperwork/back ground check changes the ownership of the weapon.

should that weapon be stolen from you-you are responsible until you notify the police.

should a crime be committed with that firearm you are responsible
as the criminal - unless you have contacted the authorities that the gun was stolen

people need to be held responsible for the guns they purchase..
make the people who purchase auto weapon take out insurance on the weapons.....

the reasons that people act stupid with guns and firearms is that they are not held responsible....until recently a child that took a
gun to school was expelled and that was it now, should a gun that was owned by the parents show up on campus, parents are being held responsible..


i'd get into violence on TV or movies or video games........but
if people cannot monitor their kids playing video games, chances are they don't give a flying handshake if their kids take a gun to school......



shoot,

[babolaypo65]

Uh-oh, looks like Richard and I are going to agree to disagree.
Though I DO agree: if your gun is used in a crime you should be held responsible unless you've reported it missing. If your car is, you are.
And I agree that parents should be held responsible for their children's crimes with the parents' gun. (Again, just as with a car...)
I still don't think automatic weapons should be sold, the cost outweighs the benefit to society in my opinion.

[carole]

Well we manage quite nicely in nz without owning guns, i know we are a little country, and i guess thats where the difference is, less crime, but i for one would hate to see it like the states, there are far too many gun owners who are just not responsible, thats the problem.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Uh-oh, looks like Richard and I are going to agree to disagree.

I still don't think automatic weapons should be sold, the cost outweighs the benefit to society in my opinion.



it figures you'd break rank......;)

you are so unbelievabley naive....


just think a second.


man approaches teller at bank..

hold up, put all the money in the bag.

yes, but is that a rubberband in your hand?

yes it is and i'm NOT AFRAID TO USE IT......
I'll put your eye OUT WITH IT...

i have a CUP FILLED with rubber bands on my desk
and there are days i want to fill my pockets and roam
work shooting people in the ass.....but i control myself and don't do it......

should we register them???

btw guess why there are no rubberband assault weapons???

too hard to load!

[babolaypo65]

Would you mind changing naive to innocent? It's been so long since someone called me innocent... I'd much prefer that term..... ;)


Originally posted by RICHARD
it figures you'd break rank......;)

you are so unbelievabley naive....

[carole]

RICHARD mate you are such a smart ass, I LOVE IT, your threads always bring a smile to my face cheers mate:) ;)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Would you mind changing naive to innocent? It's been so long since someone called me innocent... I'd much prefer that term..... ;)

sorry.

innocent it is!

[babolaypo65]

Thanks richard! I feel young again....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Thanks richard! I feel young again....

cool,

pass it on!!!;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

-Fifteen American children die from gunshot wounds every day.

-Guns are the top killer of youth in California.

-The US lead the world in using guns to kill its children. In 1997, of all the firearms deaths of kids under the age of 15 in 26 industrialized nations, 86% of the victims were in the United States.
________________________________________

Jeb Bush addressed the NRA convention recently and said..."The sound of gunfire you hear is the sound of freedom."

I believe the sound of gunfire I hear is the sound of our children being killed.

I have never heard of a driveby knifing....or anyone getting caught in gang crossknifing.

Assault rifles....armour piercing bullets...is that what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote about the right to bear arms as a part of a standing militia????????

[catland]

We were discussing guns and safety with a friend last night, and he mentioned that in Switzerland, they are required to learn how to use a rifle when they are 18 or so. Now I don't know if this is true or not. He also mentioned that they have a very low crime rate.

What can we learn from this? Since guns are a way of life here, lets teach our kids to use guns just as we teach them to drive a car. For starters, it would help remove the mystique around guns. Especially if they had to take a test! (I don't have the statistics, but I'm guessing that more people die from car accidents then they do from guns, if I'm wrong, please correct me. )

Can't you imagine a kid groaning to his friends "I can't meet you after school, I have to go target practice - there's a big test tomorrow".

[Soledad]

I don't think that it would be wise to educate every child under 18 years about proper gun usage at this time. We would need to address a whole bunch of other issues before doing this. It may work in other countries, but that doesn't mean it would work here. There are so many things to consider, but our cultures are too different to mean that it would make things better here.

EdwinasSecretary - we are, not too surprisingly, on the same page!:)

[RICHARD]

kids need to be taken to a morgue and shown what
an assault rifle bullet can do.

a hunting rifle with a full metal jacket bullet does less damage than an assault rifle with the same projectile..an assault rifle bullet tumbles after a bit-THAT'S what causes the HOLES in a body-

the rifling in the barrel of a sports/hunting rifle ( the grooves that make the bullet spin and go farther ) is the reason you can target shoot over distance. an assault rifle 'allows' the user to spread more bullets, faster, in one direction.

people need to be shown the consequences of what a
bullet can do-you cannot push the reset button on the console and start over again.
also the glamourization of guns in music (early 90's) was pretty funny-go back and look at 'cop killer' from ice cube tray, or whatever his name is.


i kinda question the 'guns are the top killer of youth in california' if so why are there a bunch of a hole adults shooting at each other??? and how did they get to be so old it they are supposed to be shot dead when they are teens???

love to see that california stat and where it came from...

(this opinion has an error rate of + or - three
percentage points)

[catland]

When my husband took a gun safety test (that I plan to take this summer), on of the first thing that the instructor did was show them a single bullet.

He then went on to say "this is a million dollar bullet. Because if you shoot and kill someone, their family will sue you. They will take away everything from you. All your possesions, everything you've worked for. So before you pull that trigger, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it? "

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
So before you pull that trigger, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it? "

...do you feel lucky punk?
-dirty harry

here's my spin on what the instructor left out..

we can make that a 'million point five dollar' bullet...

the cost of an ER surgeon, op room costs, anesthesia, OR techs.....

we foot the bill (eventually) of EVERY SINGLE GSW
THAT SHOWS UP IN AN E.R. in increased health care cost......fixing up a thoracic bullet wound is not easy or cheap.

funny, the only time a bullet costs anything isn't when WE fire it...it also costs us in emergency room dollars on our tax bill.

i cringe when i see bumper stickers that say
'gun control is using both hands'...

[catland]

Originally posted by RICHARD

here's my spin on what the instructor left out..

we can make that a 'million point five dollar' bullet...

the cost of an ER surgeon, op room costs, anesthesia, OR techs.....

we foot the bill (eventually) of EVERY SINGLE GSW
THAT SHOWS UP IN AN E.R. in increased health care cost......fixing up a thoracic bullet wound is not easy or cheap.



excellent point - thanks.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
excellent point - thanks.

aw shoot, ;)

your welcome!

this topic is not an easy one...i can see both sides......i like guns but really hate to see them used in a deliberately stupid and angry way.

it behooves me to see people take a cavalier
stand on all guns and then take NO responsibility
for the outcome of their point of view.