Everyone Says...crate... But...

[Cataholic]

Everyone says to crate Binx...and now at 5.5 weeks, and crate free, I am asking....is it POSSIBLE that he is a crate less doggie? He really is 100% potty trained, if only the hooman can make it home in less than 6 hours!!!!!! I don't crate him at all, and I leave the house at 830ish, return at noonish, and then again at 530ish....he NEVER gets into anything. He sleeps at my bedside ALL night....

MANY people tell me, "well, you will have to crate him eventually"...is this true???????????? He is 6 months old, has had MINIMAL accidents, and it is my preference NOT to crate....HELP ME!!!

[Karen]

You don't need to crate him, in my opinion. Our Saints, in fact none of our dogs, were ever "crate trained" and if he's not a problem, don't guilt yourslef into doing it. If you owrry about leaving him with free run of the house, buy a "baby gate" and make one room (usually the kitchen) his "crate." That's what my brother Fred did with his bouncy rescue pup, Lady. It helped his wife Jennifer when he has been away various times (he's a Reservist who has since gotten activated) when Lady would get too rowdy or too needy/pesty/naughty, the baby gate would go up with Lady in the kitchen. (Jenny, like you, was a former cats-only person.) Just as long as Binx has a nice cozy place where he feels secure, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Cataholic]

Thanks, Karen....that is exactly what the problem is. I feel as if I am doing something WRONG by not crating him! He is priceless...he doesn't mess, doesn't get into the cat food/cat litter box, he doesn't do anything!!!! I don't want to crate him...it is bad enough, FOR ME, that I have to leave him alone so much of the day....I guess if he becomes a 'puppy' in the normal sense, I can always reconsider....it is hard to convince people what a laid back puppy a ST. actually is....thanks, Karen!!!

[Cookiebaker]

My personal opinion is that it may not be necessary for all breeds. We have a lab puppy -- the crate was very necessary for us to keep our sanity. It still is, sometimes. I'm not that familiar with St.B's. whether they are mischievious or not. It doesn't sound like it, if Binx doesn't get into anything. If Malone is left alone, he gets into *EVERYTHING*. :eek: And that's why we decided to crate train.

[Karen]

Originally posted by Cataholic
Thanks, Karen....

it is hard to convince people what a laid back puppy a ST. actually is....thanks, Karen!!!

You're welcome! Give that big lug a good hug for me, okay? Good boy, Binx! :) Good momma, Johanna!

[primabella]

If your doing fine now without the crate-training, don't even go crazy trying to get Binx used to one. Mick got crate trained because I thought it would be easier and because my dad didn't want him roaming the house when we were out or sleeping in our rooms so we taught him to use the crate. We never used it during potty training though.

:D

[Logan]

Johanna, I have never crated a dog. I have used baby gates at times, but that's it. I am not "anti crate" if they are used correctly, but I think proper training can be done without them too.

Hug that sweet boy for me, please!

Logan :)

[KYS]

I agree with everyone too. :)

My dogs are only partially crate trained.
Since they are trust worthy in the house, they
have free range inside. :)

[Uabassoon]

I never crate trained Missy, but it was because she's always been a lazy dog (takes after her mom) so I never worried about her getting into trouble. Right now she lives with my landlord who has 4 other dogs living with her and only one of those is crate trained, a Wiemeraner (sp?) who will destroy the house if left alone.

[oodlesofpoodles]

Whether you crate a dog or not you should crate train due to there may be a time the pet may need to be crated. Traveling, after having surgery, ortho Surgery usually is total confinement. When I leave my house, my dogs are crated and this is the reason.. I had 2 dogs Never been apart from each other A german shepherd and a rottweiler. The shepherd had to have surgery. I left the rotti at home. (both dogs never got into anything) That day I found out that my shepherd had cancer, only to come home and couldnt find my rottie. Caleb didnt come when I called him I got scared thinking someone broke into my house and stole my Caleb. Nothing was amiss, I started looking under beds. I found my Caleb dead. He had gotten bored I guess and ate 20 pounds of dog food. He had never been a gluten before. He had a gastric torsion (Bloat) My Caleb died from my stupidity. Had he been crated that day I would still have him. I had imported him from Europe. He was 4 years old. I am a firm believer now in crating a dog. They may not get into anything but there is always a first time for everything. Calebs first time getting into something was his last. I just dont want to take a chance on it happening to another dog.

[wolfsoul]

I think I've had about 9 dogs in my life, and all but one was perfectly house trained :D

Timber has never once had an accident :D Leather's accidents weren't her fault, and she would always know to go on the linoleum :)

[binka_nugget]

I think you're fine without a crate. We got one because being first time dog owners, we were paranoid. Come to think of it, it wasn't necessary. I felt guilty all the time..because he had such a little amount of space for 5 hours during the day. So I started giving him the kitchen...then the house..he was good. The only time he got in trouble was with the phone cords...but i was home so I noticed, told him no and hid them. Anyways, there's no need to crate binx in my opinion...

[jenluckenbach]

I often wondered why people had dogs if they were going to crate them for the majority of the time. I mean, the cats have free run of the house. It is their home and I could not imagine locking them up.

BUT

It is extremely important for a dog to know HOW to be in a crate without being "antsy". When they go to vet, groomer, kennel, they will be in a crate and if they do not know HOW to be in one, they will pace, bark and dig to the point of hurting themselves.

bottom line: Train them to accept the crate but don't lock them up unnecessarily.

JUST MY OPINION

[Pam]

Cataholic - First of all let me say congratulations on being a dog mommy!! I haven't read the story about how you acquired Binx but certainly intend to! I am in amazement as I am reading that this little(?) guy (haha!) is housebroken at 5.5 weeks and also wondering how he came to live with you at such an early age. Am I misinterpreting this? Do you mean he has been with you 5.5 weeks, rather than being just 5.5 weeks old? (I must be, because he should still be with Mama if he's that young). Guess I'll have to go back and read his story! :) Also....he never gets into anything????? Gosh I am going to have to bring Bella to the computer to read this post in a minute! haha! She will be ashamed!

I am not an expert but have used crate training in the past at the suggestion the breeders from whom I got my dogs. The main reason for this was as a housebreaking aid. Once they got that mastered, since they were used to the crate, it was a good place to keep them while Mommy and/or Daddy was away so they didn't chew up everything in sight. Bella was only crated for 4 hrs. at a time and it did help tremendously with the housetraining. It took her much longer to be 'trustworthy' around the house (we still don't trust her around the bathroom trash can - she loves tissues - used or not! :eek: ) but eventually she proved herself and the crate has been relegated to the basement where other useless things live, for almost 2 years now.

In the case of Binx - I say don't worry about a crate! If he is truly potty trained and trustworthy there is no need. Go for it! Binx you are totally amazing to me! Now on to read your story!!!

[Cataholic]

Pam
Yes, I have had Binx for 5.5 weeks now. He turned 6 months last week. BUT, he was taken from his mommy at 5 weeks:(

[Pam]

Cataholic I knew you had adopted Binx but was unclear about his beginnings with you, so I just scanned through the 9 pages of 'Introducing Binx' but still couldn't find the post about how you came to find him. Keeping up to date at PT these days is harder and harder! I loved the pictures and reading all about him on that thread! Next I found 'Dog People I Need Your Help' and this, I think, is the beginning of his story. Did you find him through your dad? I still am not sure about how you came to find him but it sure was the best thing for this big boy!! It certainly seems like you two were meant to be together! I have to admit I did a lot of scanning of these threads (reading mostly your comments) but hope to read them all through later on. I am thrilled to have you as a doggie mom, posting on the doggie boards, because I have enjoyed your kitty posts, and am wondering how the kitties are taking to their new Big Brother! :)

Here's a large dog breed question - Has anyone ever told you to feed him raw meat? My daughter (Christiansmommy) will be adopting a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog (she was just born on Thursday) and we went to a Swissie event last weekend. Some of the owners there either feed all raw meat or at least raw meat a couple of times a week. I do believe it is because of the fear of bloat in large dogs (Swissies grow to be about 100-130 lbs) so they are right up there in size with Bink! Any advice? Also, anyone else hear of this?

[ellensy]

WoW, Binx is such a good boy :D

i know this is out of topic... but can I ask for pix of Binx ? hehe i kinda miss seeing his cute puppy face already :)

[primabella]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
I often wondered why people had dogs if they were going to crate them for the majority of the time. I mean, the cats have free run of the house. It is their home and I could not imagine locking them up.

BUT

It is extremely important for a dog to know HOW to be in a crate without being "antsy". When they go to vet, groomer, kennel, they will be in a crate and if they do not know HOW to be in one, they will pace, bark and dig to the point of hurting themselves.

bottom line: Train them to accept the crate but don't lock them up unnecessarily.

JUST MY OPINION

We don't crate Mick unless we're out or going to bed :) Even at the going out, if my mom goes to work for longer than usual, we'll close him in in the kitchen. She laid down a newspaper and he did his business on it. Nowhere else--which is weird because he was never trained to go on the paper. Anyways, I agree with you--don't crate the dog unecessarily. Mick used to make noise in his but he got used to it and my mom added this comfy pillow for him and now he likes to go in on his own. lol :p

[KYS]

oodlesofpoodles,

That is so sad,
I am so sorry to hear about your Caleb.
Bloat is one of the diseases that has always scared me.

Pam, the last issue of the AKC Gazzet has an article on
bloat. I had copied the article to send to my freinds a couple
of weeks ago.
IF I still have it, I will try to send it to you.

[Karen]

I have NEVER heard of feeding raw meat to big dogs to prevent bloat. I don't think it would have anything to do with it! Having been a part of raising two Saint Bernards and one Great Dane, no one ever said anything about feeding raw meat. I wouldn't worry about it with Binx, either.

What you DO have to do is avoid strenuous exercise right after eating. Never do that with any large-breed dog. A woman I know lost her Mastiff to bloat, and it's so quick and heartbreaking. Her new dog is an Italian Greyhound, opposite on the size scale.

[Christiansmommy]

I dont think that the total reason for eating raw meat is for the bloat issue...just one of the breeders we did talk to, prefers it to kibble/dry food. I think that they also say that it helps the dog to not gobble down the food quite so fast as they would kibble...b/c they have to chew more and therefore, they digest it a little slower, if you know what i mean. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth :) Some believe that eating raw meat also improves the the look of their coat and overall health of the dog. But 2 each his own...i am not for, or against it...havent ever tried it...this is just what i have heard...


Binx, you sould like a great puppy....good for you for being housetrained already!! Hope my soon-to-be big puppy learns that fast! :) And i agree, if he is already housetrained and doesnt chew on things while you are away...then the crate doesnt seem neccessary.

Robyn

[Pam]

Originally posted by Karen
I have NEVER heard of feeding raw meat to big dogs to prevent bloat. I don't think it would have anything to do with it!

Karen years ago (about 30! :eek: ) when we started out with our first poodles, who were incidentally toys, the vet told us to stay away from Purina Dog Chow. He said that it puffs up in a dog's tummy and suggested we wet some in a bowl and see what happened. (We had been feeding it dry). It more than doubled its size. Purina may have changed their formula since then, but we switched food because of this. I was just assuming that if a not-so-good dry kibble was fed it could cause bloat. It was just my assumption. I have read about the precautions that you mention. I am glad to hear that dry food shouldn't be a problem.
PS - my apologies to anyone who feeds Purina. I am sure it is not the same formula as they were using 30 years ago.

[Cincy'sMom]

we started all of ours in crates while they were housebreaking and getting over the chewing stage. We had got away from it and Sadie had notbeen in a crate for quite some time. Even ciny was crate free for about 4 months. Then they started tearing stuff up in the house again. So far it has been a book or two here and there. I know this is partially our fault, as we have been gone a lot the last 2 or 3 weeks, but we still can't have them tearing apart the house. So until we get some issues worke out, all three are being crated when we are gone.

Right now I don't see why Binx has to be crated. What I might watch though, as more teeth start to come in, what kind of chewing he may do. You may need to crate, or at least limit is freedom....but if he never chews, has accident, etc, etc, etc...no need to crate him just beause.

[marysmerrycats]

it is hard to convince people what a laid back puppy a ST. actually is.
you don't need to convince anyone, if you are happy with the way things are, that's all that's important!:)

pics?

Karen, I didn't know you had dogs!

[marysmerrycats]

Purina Dog Chow. He said that it puffs up in a dog's tummy and suggested we wet some in a bowl and see what happened. (We had been feeding it dry). It more than doubled its size.
well I know you are talking about DOG food, but wouldn't cat food do the same? I am not feeding them purina anymore either, and whenever a piece of the new food gets in the water bowl, it puffs up, wouldn't all dog/cat food do the same?:confused:

[Pam]

Actually no. I feed the dogs Eukanuba and it doesn't puff. Once in a while the cats drop some of their IAMS into their water bowl (messy little eaters! ;) ) and it gets only slightly larger than when it is dry. My cats just pick at their dry food anyway and I think most cats do that as a rule so they are not eating large amounts at any one time.

[marysmerrycats]

My cats just pick at their dry food anyway and I think most cats do that as a rule so they are not eating large amounts at any one time.

Patches... the exception to the rule!:(
anyway thanks for the info. actually I think I do remember, purina DID puff more!

[Cataholic]

I haven't heard of raw meat as a bloat reducer. As a large non meat eater myself, I don't think I would give Binx raw meat, anyhow. The bloat comes with large breeds. I don't do the exercise after eating...just a walk is sufficient.

As to Binx, teeth, and crating, we will just have to see how "saintly" he remains!!!

[Cataholic]

Oh, pictures will be taken shortly!!

[Karen]

Originally posted by marysmerrycats

Karen, I didn't know you had dogs!


Paul and I don't have any dogs right now. I grew up with large dogs - my first best-smartest-dog-in-the-whole-wide-world was a rescue Shepherd/Rottie or Dobe mix. She was followed by Freckles, a lovely Saint Bernard, then by Gracie, a 3/4 Great Dane 1/4 lab, who was also a rescue of sorts. My Dad still has Bruni, another St. Bernard, whom my mom bought before she got ALS. Bruni was Ma's baby, went everywhere with her. Since my mom died, she is now Dad's girl, but we all claim her as our own!

Paul grew up with dogs, too, Collies.

[wolf_Q]

I don't think that you should necessarily have to keep him in a crate while you are away, BUT I *do* think that having a dog that is used to being in a crate is very important. If you ever have to leave him at a vet, groomers, etc. a dog that is comfortable in a crate is a lot easier to deal with, and less stressful on the dog.

[ChrisH]

Bob is the only dog I have owned that has been crated, indeed, five years ago it took some searching to find a crate to buy, before I got him I had not even heard of crating a dog, even nowadays it is not a common thing to do over here! I do not know of anyone else who crates, but that may be just that I move in the wrong circles!:D

Thinking back over the years most my RB dogs did not need crating anyway, Prince, Duke, PrinceII, Blue, Duchess, and even Max for the greater part of his life, always had someone home with them so the need for a crate didn`t arise. Penny, my dog before Bob was a whole different case. How I wish I had a crate for her while I was at work. Destroyer she should have been named for destroy she did, curtains, sofas & chairs, lino, doors and she even made holes in the wall! Beside, a crate may have helped with the howling stuff....
Anyway, although I wasn`t working when I got Bob I still got him a crate, for a few reasons. The usual ones, training, somewhere for him to feel and be secure, etc, and also because my home is small and I was taking care of my baby grandaughter at the same time and I wanted to be able to keep them apart as and when needed, (I also used baby gates as they both grew!:D ).
In our case the crate has turned out to be a best ever buy! Bob took to it like a duck to water, - he still loves it, its his `den`- and as he turned out to be a chewer it saved me a lot of, what shall I call it? aggravation? :D

So, I think crates are great when needed but within the circumstances you describe with Mr Binx I don` t think one is. If it were me I would not bother crating Mr Binx. If confinement to one area was needed, permanently or on occasion, I would use a baby gate as Karen suggested.

Big hugs to that gorgeous big boy! :D
Chris

[Karen]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
If you ever have to leave him at a vet, groomers, etc. a dog that is comfortable in a crate is a lot easier to deal with, and less stressful on the dog.

From her description of Binx, he's a typical Saint - laid back guy, and won't care whether he's in a crate or not when at the vet or anywhere else. He'd RATHER be with his human, but otherwise, who cares? is a typical Saintly attitude. Stress? That's for OTHER dogs.

[shais_mom]

I have to cage Keegan when I am at work. She gets into stuff when I am here I can only imagine what she would do when I am not! :eek:
I hope to one day let her out of her crate while I am gone. Maybe after the puppy stage.
Binx sounds like a great boy!
Can't wait to meet him!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by Cataholic
As to Binx, teeth, and crating,
we will just have to see how "saintly" he remains!!!

How did Binx react to his crate the few times he's been confined in it?

None of my dogs have ever been crated at home...
and I've never had a Vet tell me that any of them acted "badly" when crated during a Vet visit.

Most of the Kids have experienced confinement of one sort or another during their puppy or initial periods after adoption - usually by being secured with a short chain (6-8 feet long) to a corner of the basement. With NOTHING other than toys, blankie, and water bowl within reach of the chain. I always felt they had a LOT more freedom and a larger area with the chain than if they were in a crate.

Shadow (Shepherd/Husky RB :( ) had a surgical complication during spaying - after her THIRD surgery in two days :eek:, she had SOO much IV fluid she had to be confined in the kitchen (she was *constantly* *p-ing* for 3 days)! I used a chair barricade at one end and a borrowed baby gate at the other. That's when I learned a baby gate will NOT hold back a 50# dog that seriously wants to sleep on the BigBed with Dad! ;) (We got up a lot for "outies" that last night!)

Cinder only spent the first couple nights in the basement *On-the-Chain*; potty training wasn't an issue! She had a relapse with :eek: "Furniture Chewing" :mad: that required a few weeks of Time-Out Chain confinement if I had to leave her in the house, but she took the hint and hasn't bothered anything since she was a year or so old.

Smokey "graduated" from the Time-Out Chain in the basement to a short leash tied to the bed after just a few nights. He had a minor set-back (THREE *p's* upstairs :mad: ) and spent a few evenings "On-the-Chain" before he figured out that marking the howze was NOT an approved social event.

Summation? If Mr Binx remains trustworthy and doesn't have accidents, doesn't chew, and doesn't *:eek:* Chaze Katz, then I'd say leave well enough alone! But *WATCH* out for electrical cord chewing! That can be fatal! Even a *hint* of interest in a wire or cord should result in Swift Punishment to nip THAT problem before it becomes a habit.

Keep on being a Saintly *GUD BOY*, Mr Binx!! :D

[marysmerrycats]

ok so you don't have dogs, but, what about pics of Miss Hoppy?

:)

[Aspen and Misty]

We crate trained Nova who is 2 years old. The only reson we did was because when we took her on trips she was awful! There was no way we could EVER take her anywhere, so we crated her in the van and since then she just moves about a little and normally finds a nice spot to sleep. She is not in her crate all day though, there is no need for it to be used. She is comptly 100% house trained and she never gets into anything. I do liek the fact she is crate trained though because on trips to my grandmoths she loves to sleep in her crate because it is her own spot and I think it's comforting. But I dont' see why you would need to and don't stress over it, he is your dog, you don't have to crate train if you don't want. And you obviously are doing everything wonderfulyl!!

Ash

[slleipnir]

I don't think you really need to..I've never crated mine and they seem fine if there were at the vets or w/e..then again I never travel with them either but I doubt they'd mind. I guess it depends on the dog..All I did was keep mine in the kitchen till they were old enough to not eat everything :p

[Albea]

You probably had enough opinions about crating by now but anyway here's my experience: I had three Goldens in the last 26 years and none of them was ever crated.I got my first one, Natasha the Red Menace, from a breeder who insisted on my getting a crate. I brought it home and never used it, I ended up giving it to somebody who had a ferret. All the dogs came as puppies and stayed in the kitchen while I was at work until they were trustworthy enough to be left alone in the house. Because I worked very long hours, I even trained them to use a safe place with paper in the basement. Believe me, this was very usefull once when I was stuck overnight at the University due to a blizzard that closed the state.
So, if baby Binx is as good as you say, and looking at his face is not hard to believe it, I don't see the point in crating him. Karen is right, Binxey is a laid back St. Bernard who would rather be with you, or take a long nap when you're gone;) than get into trouble.
Please give him a big hug from me.

[tikeyas_mom]

Tikeya was never creat trained, she would freak lol.

if she peed in the house she would get her nose rubbed in it. if she popped, he was make her smell it, then she would go out side.

Oscar WAS creat trained a little. he was mostly paper trained though. We hung a bell off the door at his level and we would ring it everytime he peed or pooped on the paper. Soon enough he rang it when he wanted out. :D. sweet hey? I think so !!

our friends have a unaltered dach hund, he is created all the time and ALWAS pees and poops in the house. Yuk!

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
I don't think that you should necessarily have to keep him in a crate while you are away, BUT I *do* think that having a dog that is used to being in a crate is very important. If you ever have to leave him at a vet, groomers, etc. a dog that is comfortable in a crate is a lot easier to deal with, and less stressful on the dog.

that is very true! Tikeya was never creat trained and when she had to stay at the vets over night she screamed all night, the vets thoguht she was dieing. She hated it!! Good thing that wont have to happen again.