evolution is bogus

[lotrfreak]

i thing evoulution is based on conjectures, who can prove me wrong?

[RubyMutt]

So how do you think we, and other organisms, have adapted to fit our environments? I'm just curious as to why you think it's "bogus". To me, it's clearly obvious that evolution has taken place...

[lotrfreak]

the seventh of the conjectures that evolutionists base their facts on is this:within the vertebrates the fish gave rise to amphibia, the amphibia to reptiles and the reptiles to birds and mammals.

so what you are saying is that a dinosaur changed into a monkey?:eek:

[slleipnir]

I don't really think of it that way..I think at some point we started out perhaps as single cell organisms and over how much time it turns into things..like one type might evolve into a fish were as something else into something different..I duno, I'm weird, but I don't think dinosaurs evolved into thingies today per say..seeing they got extinct and all..

[Soledad]

No one can prove you wrong without having a time machine. You're entitled to believe what you would like but I have to question your motivations in starting this thread.:rolleyes:

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
so what you are saying is that a dinosaur changed into a monkey?:eek:

:rolleyes: no...

since I find it hard to put this into my own words...

"It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun."
- R. C. Lewontin

"A few words need to be said about the 'theory of evolution,' which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, 'theory' often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, 'theory' means 'a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.' as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved 'facthood' as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled 'New evidence for evolution;' it simply has not been an issue for a century." - Douglas J. Futuyma

... I hope that's enough... I don't want to get into a big debate about this... I had enough of doing that in the past :rolleyes:

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by Soledad
You're entitled to believe what you would like but I have to question your motivations in starting this thread.:rolleyes:

I was wondering that myself...

[babolaypo65]

Well put Soledad!

Lotrfreak, I am finding that I don't want to engage in debate with you, simply because of the challenging manner in which you phrased your post.
I think I'll pass, for now. I will, however, continue to watch this thread for the time being.


Originally posted by Soledad
No one can prove you wrong without having a time machine. You're entitled to believe what you would like but I have to question your motivations in starting this thread.:rolleyes:

[lizbud]

"i thing evoulution is based on conjectures, who can prove me wrong?"

My question is why should we care what you think ? To quote
Rett Butler " Frankly Scarlette, I don't give a damn." Go argue
with someone else.:rolleyes:

[marysmerrycats]

it does sound like you are just trying to irritate people. this is suposed to be a pet site, and even tho there are non-pet sections, for your first posts to be something like this. ...
have you even told us about your pets or posted a pic?

[lbaker]

surely there are better sites to vent your frustrations with reality............

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by lbaker
surely there are better sites to vent your frustrations with reality............

I second that...

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

you have probably picked-up from my user name that i am a christian. i dont want to start a fight, but state my own opinions. so dont take my head off!!! i know that we did not just happen, look around, everything is so complicated, so unique!! how does the bird no when to fly south??? instincts, you will say, but where did those insticts come from??? from a higher power??? yes, from God!! how come we use words, and animals use sounds, because we have souls. yes, they communicate, but not in words. i would rather think that we did not just happen, but were made causes God wanted to spend time with us. what is the point of living if there is nothing to live for??? no one to please but youself. sounds like fun, but that can get boring after a while. sure, i believe in adaptions but not evolving. did you know that Darwin proved himself wrong and told everyone to forget about evolution?? no i did not read this in a christian book, but a secular author that did not believe in God. so i bet that sheds a new light on evolution.

the real question is not where we come from, but where do we go from here?????

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

what is this day and age come too??? have you all gone nuts??? you are beating up on a newcomer, when we are suppose to be nice and friendly, for stating her own opinions!!! i just cant believe it!!!

also, you quoted that person, which is also nuts as far as i am concered, saying something about 800 million years ago there was nothing. you are partially true. there was no animals and humans, but there WAS A GOD!!!!!!! i dont care what you think, either, i just prefer putting it in a nicer way, since i fallow the golden rule, not the "swear when i feal like swearing cause everybody else does" rule. how does it feel to be on the outside looking, thinking you have it better??? would you rather be in the inside looking out trying to help others get where you are instead of being stubborn??? well, you heard my bit, that is true by the way.

i would rather fight it out with you, cause, in the end i will win in two reasons. one, either you wont answer, or i will keep going til you quit, and two, i will be with God knowing that i tried my best to get you to see the light.

Love to all!!!!!!! even if you dont accept it!!!!! :D

[Kerri Greyson]

Originally posted by slleipnir
I don't really think of it that way..I think at some point we started out perhaps as single cell organisms and over how much time it turns into things..like one type might evolve into a fish were as something else into something different..I duno, I'm weird, but I don't think dinosaurs evolved into thingies today per say..seeing they got extinct and all..

you are going to think i am crazy, but dinos arent extinct!!! and there was only two kinds, not the nine billion that the scientists have lead you to believe!!! i have seen and heard live pics and sounds of them. dont laugh, it is true!!! i know it sounds funny, but i am not crazy!!!

[Kerri Greyson]

Originally posted by RubyMutt
:rolleyes: no...

since I find it hard to put this into my own words...

"It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun."
- R. C. Lewontin

"A few words need to be said about the 'theory of evolution,' which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, 'theory' often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, 'theory' means 'a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.' as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved 'facthood' as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled 'New evidence for evolution;' it simply has not been an issue for a century." - Douglas J. Futuyma

... I hope that's enough... I don't want to get into a big debate about this... I had enough of doing that in the past :rolleyes:



no, it is not enough. here is something from the good book:

"in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. and God said " Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from darkness. God called the light "day" and the darkness He called "night". and there was evening and there was morning- the first day. And God said " Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water and above it. And it was so. God called the expanse "sky". And there was evening and there was morning- the second day. And God said "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place and let dry ground appear" . and it was so. God called the dry ground "land" and the gathered waters he called "seas". and God saw that it was good. Then God said "Let the land produce vegitation: seed baring plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to there various kinds." and it was so. the land produced vegitation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with a seed in it according t their kinds. and God saw that it was good. and there was evening and there was morning- the third day. And God said "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from night and let them serve as signs to mark the seasons and days and years, and let them to be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." and it was so. God made two great lights- the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light to earth. and God saw that it was good. and there was evening and there was morning- the fourth day. and God said "Let the water teem with living creatures and let birds of the air fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." so God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their own kind. and God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, " Be fruitful and increase on the earth." and there was evening and there was morning- the fifth day. and God said "Let the land produce to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its own kind. " and it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kindsm and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. and God saw that it was good. THEN GOD SAID, "LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, IN OUR LIKENESS, AND LET THEM RULE OVER THE FISH OF THE SEA AND THE BIRDS OF THE AIR, OVER THE LIVESTOCK, OVER ALL THE EARTH, AND OVER THE CREATURES THAT MOVE ALONG THE GROUND." SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE, IN THE IMAGE OF GOD HE CREATED HIM; MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM; GOD BLESSED THEM AND SAID TO THEM " BE FRUITFUL AND INCREASE IN NUMBER; FILL THE EARTH AND SUBDUE IT. RULE OVER THE FISH OF THE SEA AND THE BIRDS OF THE AIR AND EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT MOVES ALONG THE GROUND.

Genesis 1:1-28

i dont know about you, but that pretty much clears it up, dont you think????????

[mugsy]

Ok, here's my explanation as an earth science teacher and a believer in God and all he has done and will do.

I am a true believer in evolution. I believe that God provided us with the Big Bang that started everything and he provided the lightning bolt that hit the ocean at the appropriate time to produce the first protein that changed to DNA. It has been proven that DNA is the same whether it's a frog or a human....it's just arranged differently. I think that is so amazing. How can everything come from one strand of DNA without help from divine intervention. I believe that everything evolved. Do I believe that we evolved from apes...NO. If that were true then apes would not exist now. We are on the same evolutionary lines as apes, meaning we followed the same path as apes. Evolution is a very complicated thing and is not something that can be explained in a thread on pet talk, let alone one post.

Do I believe in literal interpretation of the Bible...no way. I think that God realized that the human brain has no way of comprehending 4.6 billion years, so, he put it in time periods that we can understand. It's pretty amazing how closely the "7 days and 7 nights" fits with the geologic time scale. I think like every piece of literature it is meant to be interpreted.

The priest at our church is also a devote believer in evolution because he has studied it, yet still takes the Bible and interprets it for his congregation. I don't see why it has to be different.

That's my explanation. I don't plan on arguing my opinion with anyone. I'm just giving my opinion....take it or leave it.

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

i know what you mean when you say that it is not thinkable that everything in seven days, and that is what makes it so awesome!!!! to know that God is so powerful that he says one word and it happens!!! how on earth it happened??? we will never fully understand.

i will thank-you Mugsy for stating your opinion without bringing anyone elses opinion down i respect you for that. a huge THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will have to choose leave it, though, nothing that anyone says will make me back down from the true that i know in my heart.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!


i will have to choose leave it, though, nothing that anyone says will make me back down from the true that i know in my heart.


check it out....
if i drink a whole bunch of beer, i start to drool all over myself.
when i sober up i evolve back into a human...

so what's the problem???

[catland]

Thanks Richard. I knew you'd set us straight.

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

that is not what they are talking about: they are talking about animals changing forms. all through the time you were drunk, you were still in the same body, the only thing that changed was you mind, it was drugged with alcohol. there is nothing wrong with that evolving, exept make sure you are sober before you go out.

[lizbud]

Wouldn't it be funny if lotrfreak and Jesus Freak were one
and the same person? This thread could quite possibly go on
forever.:D :D

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

ya, that would be fuuny, but we are not the same person. but Jesus Freak!!!! and Kerri Greyson are the same person, i was just checking my other account. nice try!!!!!

[RICHARD]

evolution and religion are two topics that can't be 'proved' one way or the other.

it's quite a bit of supposition and 'what ifs'........

i left those two things alone a long time ago.......
but actually i still worry about dinosaurs and how they turned into fossil fuel...

imagine a couple of billion years ago they were walking around
minding their own business.......now i need them in my gas tank at
about 1.89 a gallon......what would jesus do????


walk everywhere???
:confused:

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

they are animals, you weirdo!!! God doesnt care if you use the resorces to do you thing. if you read the early post by me, you would have read about how God gave us control over the animals, so, i will think that Jesus would fill up the tank!!!!!!

i agree that evolution can not be proved either way, but to give it up???? you are giving up the chance of a life time. you probably turned down christianity cause you thought it was rules, rules and more rules, but that is not it. there are only a few who are crazy like me who like to go nuttso about it. the rest are having fun the safe way. so maybe you should rethink giving up the faith.

just to clear this up, christianity is often mistaken as a religion. i hate religions!!! there are more rules than any one can comprehend. if you take budda out of buddism, there still the rules and customs. but if you take christ out of christianity, you are left with nothing, our whole goal is to please the audience of one. as the saying goes " i will be content to please an audience of one. only his opinion counts when all is said and done." so, i will be praying for all of you people out there, who have been lead astray from the god of this world, satan!!

God bless!!!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!


so, i will be praying for all of you people out there, who have been lead astray from the god of this world, satan!!




and oreo cookies.....

[lbaker]

RICHARD a weirdo?? Who would have figured... must be the work of shhhhhhhh saten satan satin? sat on? hmmmmm

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

what the heck is that suppose to mean??? and people think christians are weird!!!!!!!

[catland]

so if evolution is bogus - then creationism must be EXCELLENT!

(air-guitar riff)

[lbaker]

a christian politician is trying to make oreo's against the law. i heard on this mornings news. hahahahaha no, really. it's true. i just happen to think it's hysterical

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
so if evolution is bogus - then creationism must be EXCELLENT!

(air-guitar riff)


TED???

is that you?????

[catland]

Originally posted by RICHARD
TED???

is that you?????

BILL - it's TED!

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

well, then, i might have to change faith, i dont want too share faith with a creep who wants too steal my oreos!!!! well, now, he is weird, hey, trying to steal candy from a baby!!!!!!!! how rude!!!!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lbaker
RICHARD a weirdo?? Who would have figured... must be the work of shhhhhhhh saten satan satin? sat on? hmmmmm



i always thought my bed had satan sheets.....:confused:
and then it was muslim sheets.........it was the 'hotbed of religion' for a while........but then i found out that satan plays in buffalo!!!!!!!!!


Miroslav Satan 81
Right Wing
Height 6-1
Weight 195
Shoots Left
Born October 22, 1974
Topolcany, SVK


Scored nine goals in eight games while representing Slovakia at 1994 Olympics. Missed nine games with foot injury but scored three goals and added five assists in 12 playoff games in 1999. Scored game-winning overtime goal in Game Two against Toronto that year. Had career-high 34 assists and 67 points during 1999-2000. Had career-high 40 goals the previous season.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
BILL - it's TED!



dude!!!!! (dudette????)

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

i would like to apolgies to anyone i offended. i am so stressed these days!!! the adoption, my grandparents, augh, i could scream!!!!! i am sorry i took it out on you guys, we are suppose to be nice and i over reacted. i know what people mean when they say that christians are the greatest cause of athiaism, cause we acknowledge Jesus with our mouths,but go out the door and forget our morals. so, i offer a big sorry to you all!!!!!!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
i would like to apolgies to anyone i offended

offended??


you should wake up in my body and look in the mirror...


that's offensive!:rolleyes:

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

thanx richard!!!! sorry for calling you a weirdo, sorry again,ppl!!!!

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by mugsy
Ok, here's my explanation as an earth science teacher and a believer in God and all he has done and will do.

I am a true believer in evolution. I believe that God provided us with the Big Bang that started everything and he provided the lightning bolt that hit the ocean at the appropriate time to produce the first protein that changed to DNA. It has been proven that DNA is the same whether it's a frog or a human....it's just arranged differently. I think that is so amazing. How can everything come from one strand of DNA without help from divine intervention. I believe that everything evolved. Do I believe that we evolved from apes...NO. If that were true then apes would not exist now. We are on the same evolutionary lines as apes, meaning we followed the same path as apes. Evolution is a very complicated thing and is not something that can be explained in a thread on pet talk, let alone one post.

Do I believe in literal interpretation of the Bible...no way. I think that God realized that the human brain has no way of comprehending 4.6 billion years, so, he put it in time periods that we can understand. It's pretty amazing how closely the "7 days and 7 nights" fits with the geologic time scale. I think like every piece of literature it is meant to be interpreted.

The priest at our church is also a devote believer in evolution because he has studied it, yet still takes the Bible and interprets it for his congregation. I don't see why it has to be different.

That's my explanation. I don't plan on arguing my opinion with anyone. I'm just giving my opinion....take it or leave it.

My throughts exactly :)

I hate getting into these usless arguments when everyone is set with their own beliefes. I don't plan on changing what other's believe, but there's not way I'd change my beliefs either.

I do believe in God, but I also believe in science... evolution just makes so much sense to me... more sense than the some parts of the Bible have. ... one of the reasons I do not believe in organized religions

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
thanx richard!!!! sorry for calling you a weirdo, sorry again,ppl!!!!



:)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy
I believe that God provided us with the Big Bang



why am i steering clear of that statement?????

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

thank goodness this is settled!!! funny thing is that the person that started has been gone for most of the debate!!!!

[lbaker]

...........ain't goin' near it
(chortle chortle)

[mugsy]

Richard, get your head out of the gutter!! lol

[yorkster]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
they are animals, you weirdo!!! God doesnt care if you use the resorces to do you thing. if you read the early post by me, you would have read about how God gave us control over the animals, so, i will think that Jesus would fill up the tank!!!!!!



and we are not doing such a great job 'controlling' the animals.
the god I believe in would not let us humans do those things!

[yorkster]

and oh, I did not think that lotrfreak was being rude or confrontational at all when she started this thread.
she/he just asked a question in a straight forward way.
afterall, this IS the doghouse...........................:confused:

I hope she/he was not scared off :eek:

[Soledad]

I thought it was confrontational. Especially for someone with only 2-3 posts to their name. It does give one pause for thought....

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by yorkster
afterall, this IS the doghouse...........................:confused:

I believe this thread was started in "General" and then was moved to the Doghouse

[yorkster]

Originally posted by Soledad
I thought it was confrontational. Especially for someone with only 2-3 posts to their name. It does give one pause for thought....

I'm not sure I get the conection with only having 2-3 posts :confused: is there a minimum # before you can get confrontational? ;)

(hey, it's a joke) :p

[yorkster]

Originally posted by RubyMutt
I believe this thread was started in "General" and then was moved to the Doghouse

Okay. did not know that, but still feel she was not being especially rude.

i see you're from everett, wa. i grew up there :cool: :)

[Soledad]

Hmmm, using my magnificent powers of deduction....

Newbie comes on PT and writes in a blunt way, that they don't believe in evolution and that they won't believe it and we can't prove it to them. Could it be that they're just trying to start trouble?

A mystery worthy of the ancients.:rolleyes: ;)

[IttyBittyKitty]

They certainly got people talking! BTW, the only limit on posting is in the advertising section where you must have 10 posts to your name :)

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

i agree with yorkster, i dont think that she meant anything bad, she prabably forgot that people might believe in that, and again, i am sorry for all the comments i did make, you beliefs is your decision, i was rude, not lotrfreak. biggest apologies to Rubymutt, Soledad, and ibaker. if i forgot anyone, i am sorry too. i will never shoot my mouth at you guys again. if i do, stop me!!!!

[catland]

don't sweat it JF. Those of us who frequent the Doghouse are aware that passions sometimes get the better of people regarding contriversial topics. The fact that you recognized that you got a little carried away and that you appologized for it says a lot of good things about you.

Regarding lotrfreak, where ever he or she may be - your profile doesn't even list any pets. By itself its ok, becuase you could certainly love other people's pets or care enough about animals to want to be part of our Pettalk community. But show yourself now, and rejoin the thread.

[babolaypo65]

The thread starter was lotrfreak's first post ever to PT. (he/she followed up with another). One's beliefs about evolution often relate to one's beliefs about God, religion, etc. While he/she may not have intended it to be confrontational, it was a challenge. it was issued as a challenge: he/she said it was bogus, and then said: "who can prove me wrong?"

I chose not to debate something that is so close to most folks core belief system with a total stranger. While I feel I know you all, I don't know this person, or what they would do with the information I posted.

To me it was just an interesting choice, pragmatically speaking, for a first post to a pet forum.

[lbaker]

hmmmmm... i have a sneaking suspicion that this lotrfreak person is perhaps a "lurker" that was trying (unsucessfully thank goodness) to stir up trouble to the point that someone would quit or get tossed out.......
.....just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me ;)
Laurie

[yorkster]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
i agree with yorkster, i dont think that she meant anything bad, she prabably forgot that people might believe in that, and again, i am sorry for all the comments i did make, you beliefs is your decision, i was rude, not lotrfreak. biggest apologies to Rubymutt, Soledad, and ibaker. if i forgot anyone, i am sorry too. i will never shoot my mouth at you guys again. if i do, stop me!!!!

no problems here JF!
I agree with catland that you did the right thing by recognizing & offering an apology.
I did not really think you were out of line- just stating how you felt about something that is obviously very important to you.
Thanks anyway for your apology and hope to see you around PT in the future! :)

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

thanx for forgiveness.

about lotrfreak, she said she is having trouble posting. so she is not hiding from us, just a little computer problem

[lizbud]

He/she is logged in right now so I guess the "computer Problems"
suddenly got cleared up.:rolleyes:

This is too funny.......:D :D

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

no, the computer problems were she would type something, click to post it and it wouldnt work. she/he is not trying to hide, and lets not make fun or anything else, k???

[lizbud]

Right........:rolleyes:

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

how come everones else can except the fact she isnt hiding but you?????? i do not mean this in a bad way but please, you are stearing for trouble with you comments.

[lizbud]

Sure, you bet.....Okey dokey..... :rolleyes:

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

all i have to say is let us stop right here before anyone gets mad at any one else. all agreed???

[wolf_Q]

What a funny thread...:rolleyes:

Umm...nobody can "prove" that evolution is or is not correct, sorry, but honestly I don't think you can.

I'm with mugsy's theory....I do believe God created the earth, but I don't think "7 days" etc. should be taken LITERALLY at all!

And honestly, a newcomer posting a controversial thread like this makes me wonder about their intentions also.

Jesus Freak, how about you add another few of these !!! to your sentences!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[Soledad]

Jesus Freak, how about you add another few of these !!! to your sentences!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I said the same thing! :)

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by Soledad
I said the same thing! :)

LOL guess I missed that. ;)

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

ya,it is just a habit. if you look at it, this is kind of a funny thread.

you and mugsy are like my uncle, he thinks that the seven days was really seven years. know one knows but God.

[wolf_Q]

I don't think it's 7 years either...certainly *much* longer then that....I don't believe in interpreting everything *literally.* My opinion. Who knows what a DAY is to God?

I guess the whole point is with religion...why bother arguing? Nobody can PROVE one way is right or wrong...we're still all going to believe differently...even people in the same religion interpret things in different ways. I guess we'll all just find out if we were right or wrong when we die....

[zippy-kat]

JF, is Sandy a dog? A lab perchance?

[Miss Meow]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
how come everones else can except the fact she isnt hiding but you?????? i do not mean this in a bad way but please, you are stearing for trouble with you comments.

How do you know that lotrfreak is female? How can she communicate with you - but not the rest of the forum - if she has computer problems?

I think I'll need seven years to work this thread out :)

[shais_mom]

LotRfreak= that is a lurker or a troll or something?
Jesus Freak/Kerry Greyson. pick on ID and stick to it and make sure you don't answer yourself either. We have had that before.
How do you know so much about this LotRfreak person?
And HOW FISHY is it that they BOTH HAVE FREAK IN THEIR NAME!!!

I think it is pretty funny that a 14 year old thinks that they can preach and knows more than the rest of us. I am a Christian. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying at least from what I read anyway. But Religion is a touchy subject here. Be prepared to run with the big dogs when you aproach the subject.

:)

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by shais_mom
LotRfreak= that is a lurker or a troll or something?
Jesus Freak/Kerry Greyson. pick on ID and stick to it and make sure you don't answer yourself either. We have had that before.
How do you know so much about this LotRfreak person?
And HOW FISHY is it that they BOTH HAVE FREAK IN THEIR NAME!!!

I think it is pretty funny that a 14 year old thinks that they can preach and knows more than the rest of us.

Amen. Oops......Can I say that? LOL

Run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

I wouldn't touch the rest of this debate with a ten foot dino bone. :D

[mugsy]

Is that a 65 million year old dino bone?? hehhee

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by mugsy
Is that a 65 million year old dino bone?? hehhee

*wink, wink, nudge, nudge* hehe

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

i dont know why she/he can reach me and not you guys, she privat emailed me. i will stick with JF for my id. i agree, lets just state our opinions and leave everyone else alone. and i am not 14. just thought i would clear that up. and even if i was, what is wrong with a 14 year old preaching, i believe it says in the Bible it says you shouldnt let any talk you down cause you are young. so i am just going to ignore that comment, cause if your a christian too, you would know that that is in the Bible. right???

[shais_mom]

I even did the math with a calculator. your Birthday says ##-##-1989 doesn't that make you 14? Either that or you have the wrong birthday
2003
-
1989
-------
0014 years

course I am not good with Math so maybe my calculator screwed up.
I am sure the Bible says exactly that 'don't talk down to young people' yep! I read that last week.
And I AM a Christian, so don't question me or my beliefs.
I was simply stating that it is pretty funny that a TEENager thinks they know everything. I know I did when I was that age.
I think that is even one of the stupid questions in General under that thread. Why is it that bad things happen when we aren't teenagers and know everything or something along those lines.
There are still other things that you have stated that make some of the others and I suspicious, sorry it is in our second nature, we have been screwed with before on PT.

[shais_mom]

ok I think I have finally figgered out my mistake, I said I wasn't good with math.
You haven't had a birthday yet right so you are only 13?
ok that makes it soooooooooooo much better
I would have just left it that you were 14.

[Cataholic]

I think that if you remove all the adjectives in these troublesome posters names, you can get a better description of the individual.

I don't know a single 'christian' that would put the word freak and Jesus in the same sentence structure. Nor do I know a single 'christian' that would use some of the derragatory comments JF has posted in his/her posts.....

Instead of stirring up trouble here on PT (Doghouse or not), go preach somewhere else....

[lotrfreak]

hi i am back. i want you to know that i am turning 13 on saturday. i do not believe i know everything although i do strongly believe God knows everything. he has put i sextillionth (smallest number i could think of) in the Bible. I believe all of it to be true. On the matter of someone putting Jesus and freak in the same subject, perhaps you haven't heard the song by DC Talk. Yes, i do have pets. I absolutely love cats and i have four. Smokey, Friskey, Joy, and wouldn't ya know, Oreo. i also have a goldfish named Nike who will be turning two years old in November

[lotrfreak]

And i quote, "The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an unproved theory-- is it then a science or faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation-- both are concepts which believers know to be true, but neither, up to the present, have been capable of proof" that was the introduction quote of charles Darwin's book: Origin of natural species by means of natural selection or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life. Dr. Jobe Martin, a creationist, says this on the subject: "Let's examine what Dr. Matthews is doing. He goes from fact to unproved theory to faith to belief, and all in one paragraph! But notice he is an honest evolutionist when he notes that evolution has NO scientific proof. It is a speculation of faith. Yet, Dr. Ernst Mayr, professor emeritus of Harvard University, writes: 'Since Darwin, every knowing person agrees man descended from apes. Today, there is no such thing as the theory of evolution. It is the fact of evolution.'
Dr. Jobe Martin states: "In his writing in the Omni Magazine(which promotes evolution), Dr. Mayr presents godless evolution as a fact, even though the Creator says in Romans 1 that all men know better: "For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them" Romans 1:22 adss: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."
Dr. T. N. Tahmisian of the Atomic Energy Commission agrees:
"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con men, and the story that they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution, we do not have one iota of fact.

[Soledad]

What makes you think you can argue evolutionary theory with bible quotes?

Bizarre...

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
I guess the whole point is with religion...why bother arguing? Nobody can PROVE one way is right or wrong...we're still all going to believe differently...even people in the same religion interpret things in different ways. I guess we'll all just find out if we were right or wrong when we die....

Exactly... this is a bit of a silly thread. I'm a little upset that I got all flustered earlier... :rolleyes:

I love to study, read about, discuss, etc. anything regarding evolution. It's definitely on of my favorite subjects, and something I strongly believe in. When someone calls it bogus, my first instinct is to defend it...

As for the debate on lotrfreak being rude... Yes, I think it IS very rude to call someone's beliefs "bogus"... especially if it is their first post ever. Even if I do not agree with peoples' beliefs I still would not call them "bogus". If lotrfreak really wanted to discuss/debate evolution there are much more appropriate and mature ways to go about doing that.

Respect Diversity! If everyone believed the exact same things the world would be a very bland place...

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
hi i am back. i want you to know that i am turning 13 on saturday.
So you aren't technically even allowed to be on here until Saturday.
Actually I have seen DC Talk, about 12 years ago in concert., but haven't heard them for a along time.
I also agree that it is rude to call someone's beliefs bogus. Just like it is rude to say someone's belief about God or no God is ridiculous also.
I totally agree
RESPECT DIVERSITY

[mugsy]

Being a teacher of 13, 14, and 15 year olds, I am here to say that comments like the one that started this thread are common and need to be taken under consideration of the age factor. Tact needs to be learned and at these ages, it's still being taught. Tolerance is a beautiful thing and probably something everyone in the world needs to be a little more aware of.

For the youngin's, no disrespect meant, but perhaps you should listen to what the "oldsters" on here are saying....learning and listening are also beautiful things! (no one get mad about the oldster comment ok? ;) )

[iceyshiver21]

Originally posted by mugsy
Being a teacher of 13, 14, and 15 year olds, I am here to say that comments like the one that started this thread are common and need to be taken under consideration of the age factor. Tact needs to be learned and at these ages, it's still being taught. Tolerance is a beautiful thing and probably something everyone in the world needs to be a little more aware of.

For the youngin's, no disrespect meant, but perhaps you should listen to what the "oldsters" on here are saying....learning and listening are also beautiful things! (no one get mad about the oldster comment ok? ;) )

Well said. Being a young person myself I try take into considerasion of what is being said whether or not I agree with it. I find my self way to young to deicide somthing that my grandma cant even decide and as for calling somebodys beliefs bogus...Maybe to you they sound that way but to others your sound that way...
Once said by Atticus in "To Kill A MockingBird"

"You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view... 'til you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it."

[lbaker]

IShiver, you appear to be wise beyond your years. I'm sure you will "evolve":rolleyes: into a beautiful, well read, caring "grown-up" because you show you are already well on your way. I just wish everyone can be so..... To Kill a Mocking Bird just happens to be one of my favorite books by the way.
Laurie

[iceyshiver21]

Mine too!! That book is my all time favorite, its so well wrote. Its a pitty Harper Lee only wrote one book. Atticus is my favorite character...

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

thank you lotrfreak!!!! what a Jesus Freak means is that someone who is crazy for Christ, and just for your information, i dont think i know everything. i am just stating my opinion, anything wrong with that???? if there is, something is horribly WRONG with YOU!!!!!


you are welcome for stating my opinion and yes, sandy is a dog!

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

Originally posted by Soledad
What makes you think you can argue evolutionary theory with bible quotes?

Bizarre...


because the Bible is the only way to get answers! i dont care if you think i am insulting your beliefs, because i do not want to insult you but bring you to the truth.

and with the comment, "you are going to evolvel..." is that because she agrees with you, (i dont wish to makw ishiver mad.), or just because you want to rub my noise in it??? just wondering:rolleyes: . . .

why would i preach somewhere else??? there are thousand of souls here, why take the chance to move on and miss yours???

[Jesus Freak!!!!]

just thought i would post a famous quote from Junior Asparagus: your big, i little, my head only comes to your middle, but i know that little guys can do big things too!! ... with Gods help i know that i can do big things too!!"

[lotrfreak]

well said, Jesus Freak. By the way, i didn't mean to disrespect your beliefs but on another message board i wrote on, i posted several times but never got anywhere, so pardon for seeming kind of mean when i first posted, it was the result of no one ever talking to me.

[babolaypo65]

Please leave my soul as is.

Thank you.


Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!

why would i preach somewhere else??? there are thousand of souls here, why take the chance to move on and miss yours??? [/B]

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Please leave my soul as is.

Thank you.

LOL That's EXACTLY what I was going to say!

"Stay away from my soul, it's allergic to you."

[yorkster]

Originally posted by Cheshirekatt

"Stay away from my soul, it's allergic to you."

ROFL! :D

i like that!

[kohala]

Well, JF, I'll have to add you to my collection of 8/14s that I think of on Dadcat's and Grasshoppers birthday! BTW - both very opinionated beings. I think, JF, you will find your opinions will change and grow through life, but your underlying faith will always be there for you. It's amazing how flexible a mind is, how capable of expanding it's perspective on any given concept.
Love those Lions!

Big Bang - snark, snark - hey, Mysterious Ways!

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Please leave my soul as is.

Thank you.

ROTFLMAO! http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/lachen/laughing-smiley-015.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif Thanks for the good laugh! I need it!!!!!

[lotrfreak]

a soul is not allergic to another and that is clearly not rofl. especially since the seriousness of the subject of not believing in God the one true creator and Jesus who is his son and yet God and the Holy Spirit who is left with us as our conscience and He too is God. God is Three, but one. Space is three but one, time, matter, and energy. we are one but three, body, soul, spirit

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
a soul is not allergic to another and that is clearly not rofl. especially since the seriousness of the subject of not believing in God the one true creator and Jesus who is his son and yet God and the Holy Spirit who is left with us as our conscience and He too is God. God is Three, but one. Space is three but one, time, matter, and energy. we are one but three, body, soul, spirit

I find it (and you) ridiculous and that IS funny to me. It's people exactly like you that have turned me away from christianity. Congratulations.....good job.

[babolaypo65]

You do realize the pet talk community includes people who are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist... and many others who don't share your same beliefs regarding Jesus, don't you?

[wolfsoul]

phew, just read the entire thread :eek: weee, that took a while! And man, no offence to anyone, but it really is funny :p

I think it's funny how poeple can try and push their beliefs on others..

I myself, used to be Christian. Not satisfied with this religion, I moved on to being Pagen, and now I'm just a nothing. *sigh*

I figure, hey, maybe one day someone will figure it all out. Good for them. I won't be around, but whatever. I feel like I should enjoy my life instead of answering to things, and being sad to contradict my religion.

If people want to believe in what they want, good for them! I think it's healthy to have something to be passionate about, and I think it's healthy to have a religion. Guess that makes me unhealthy ;)

But if people have a religion that is precisely based on evolution, sciencey things, than no one should try and make them feel insecure about it. I dont think it's cool to try and "prove you wrong" because no one can, just like no one can prove anyone else wrong.

[kohala]

Originally posted by Jesus Freak!!!!
they are animals, you weirdo!!! God doesnt care if you use the resorces to do you thing. if you read the early post by me, you would have read about how God gave us control over the animals, so, i will think that Jesus would fill up the tank!!!!!!




Now that's a spiritually enlightened statement if ever I heard one! I mignt be religious if I didn't hear s**t like this from the people who are always trying to enlighten and save me
:D . Can't say which religion, though, they all have good points until people start explaining them. Usually through their own tunnel vision.

Seems we've been here before - where, oh where, did that Puffin Bird go? On second thought, never mind. He WAS weird :D :D :D

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
I feel like I should enjoy my life instead of answering to things, and being sad to contradict my religion.

If people want to believe in what they want, good for them! I think it's healthy to have something to be passionate about, and I think it's healthy to have a religion. Guess that makes me unhealthy ;)

amen to that!... no pun intended ;)

[yorkster]

Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
It's people exactly like you that have turned me away from christianity. Congratulations.....good job.


Yep, me too.
I think it turns more people off to Christianity then 'on' to it.

[zippy-kat]

Please notice I said the "manner" and not "content."

Ironically, the zealots ruin it for "the rest of us." As you mature (in age and faith) you'll find that your tactics ARE NOT welcomed to the majority of saved/non-saved people. I think it's great you're "on fire" but redirect that energy into a better approach. You'll reach far more people that way.

And what/who is Junior Asparagus? I think I must've slept through that part of Sunday School! lol ;)

[kohala]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Please notice I said the "manner" and not "content."

Ironically, the zealots ruin it for "the rest of us." As you mature (in age and faith) you'll find that your tactics ARE NOT welcomed to the majority of saved/non-saved people. I think it's great you're "on fire" but redirect that energy into a better approach. You'll reach far more people that way.

And what/who is Junior Asparagus? I think I must've slept through that part of Sunday School! lol ;)

Well said.:)

[mugsy]

My philosophy is just people believe as they choose and leave them alone about it. No one really knows anyway....not until you die.

[Pam]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Please notice I said the "manner" and not "content."
Ironically, the zealots ruin it for "the rest of us."

Thanks for putting down my thoughts exactly Tonya! I would also add that I don't really care for the log-on name Jesus Freak. I think that today the casualness with which people address God/Jesus is not right. When you start to comprehend the holiness of God it seems it is much more fitting to address Him with more respect. I am sorry that Christians fall into this trap. You don't see anyone calling themselves an Allah Freak or a Budda (sp?) Freak. I think we Christians could take a lesson here. Just my humble opinion... By the way, are you posting under more than one name? I could be wrong but it just seems that way, although I haven't read that many posts.

[babolaypo65]

Zippy-Kat: I very very much liked how you phrased what you said. Well put. As someone who (obviously, from my earlier postings) has never liked being preached to, witnessed to, or otherwise challenged like that regarding my beliefs, I also appreciate what you said. Thanks.

I spent the better part of my adult life teaching middle school/ high school and can understand the enthusiasm and passion with which young folks speak. But I think they do need to hear that it isn't always welcome.

[JGuitaristR]

I used to be Christian... then took a turn for Satanism and before I got too into that, blindly and dumb, I moved onto Wiccan, to Athiest, to I have no clue.

Funny thread, thanks for the entertainment, everyone! :D :p

[wolfsoul]

And what/who is Junior Asparagus? I think I must've slept through that part of Sunday School! lol
lol, Junior Asparagus is the little talking asparagus dude off of the childrens' show Veggie Tales. Here's a mugshot
http://www.larry-boy.com/police/images/mugshotjpgs/Junior.jpg

[iceyshiver21]

Ok...Normally I stay out of relegious convo's but this one different...Its funny, insulting, strange, and stupid and a few other things....

I belive we are creations of our surroundings for the most part (not all of us), what I mean by this is....
Most of us when we grew up we belived in the same things our parents did. We wernt open to other things because we prolly never fully experianced things. For example...If my mom was an artist I prolly would like to be one as well up until the age that I go to school then I see more options but am still firmly based on being and artist.

On pettalk we have many different beliefs and for the most part we stear clear of them. We are not here to convert other to our beliefs. We are here to talk about our pets and whats going on in our busy and amazing lifes. Many times I have come to the Pettalk Family Community to share my problems, happiness, joy and humor, wether it is pet realated or not.
____________________________________________
Sorry lost my train of thought is has been four long nights and 11 little lives to care for...sorry

[cheetahgirl]

I think if she wants to preach, she's not knowing the right way. No one will listen if someone just comes and talks in that way, because it will only make them run away more.

Also, why so many Christians leave Christianity? :confused: Only curious to know...

[Soledad]

Christians leave Christianity just as others leave Judiasm, Islam and Buddhism. It just happens.

[Desert Arabian]

Um....we have to read (and expect to believe) quotes from a cartoon asparagus!!????!!???
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! TOO FUNNY!
OI! I needed that laugh! It's dreery and depressing out right now in WI...the laugh helped a lot. Thanks!!

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Please notice I said the "manner" and not "content."

Ironically, the zealots ruin it for "the rest of us." As you mature (in age and faith) you'll find that your tactics ARE NOT welcomed to the majority of saved/non-saved people. I think it's great you're "on fire" but redirect that energy into a better approach. You'll reach far more people that way.

And what/who is Junior Asparagus? I think I must've slept through that part of Sunday School! lol ;)

I have to concur with the Zipster. If you are as Christian and a Jesus Freak as you say you are, You wouldn't be as rude as what you are. You made a snide comment to me earlier about listening to the children or whatever, but you know what the Bible also says "RESPECT YOUR ELDERS" how do you like THOSE apples?

Your approach, is what turns people off. And that gives the rest of us Christians a bad name.
And I have to agree with Soledad. Christianity is such a large religion THAT is why it seems people leave it.

[lbaker]

asperagoose's with mug shots? Now I really am confused:confused: - and I thought religion was confusing :eek: - and I always thought the Almighty was DOG, and that most people just got the name spelled backwards - oh well :rolleyes:

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by lbaker
and I always thought the Almighty was DOG, and that most people just got the name spelled backwards - oh well :rolleyes:

:D

I keep pushing the religion of doG, but not many are buying it :)

[lbaker]

Don't need to "buy" it, it's free for the taking - just for the love of doG as any doG will gladly give out FREE LOVE. And kisses. And warmth, and ask nothing in return but a smile and soft voice.. well, maybe a milky bone now and again :D

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by lbaker
Don't need to "buy" it, it's free for the taking - just for the love of doG as any doG will gladly give out FREE LOVE. And kisses. And warmth, and ask nothing in return but a smile and soft voice.. well, maybe a milky bone now and again :D

Ok, Miz Laurie and Miz Amy.... you gotta tell me how the religion of doG is better than the religion of caT. With the caT, you get to do allll those things (minus the milk bone, substitute a kitty treat) PLUS ignore them. You answer to you, and only when you want to. Didja goof up? No problem! Sit in the middle of the livin' room floor and clean yourself -- it helps if you act like, "I meant to do that."

Plus, in the religion of caT you don't have to hump anyone's leg. ;)

[lbaker]

hmmmmm. Point taken. Let's not say "better" but just another alternative in the "who's imaginary friend is better than the other" discussion :rolleyes: he he, now I'll get some people going I bet :p
Laurie

[zippy-kat]

I never had imaginary friends growing up... but I did have an imaginary horse that slept underneath my bed! :D

[cheetahgirl]

Originally posted by shais_mom
Christianity is such a large religion THAT is why it seems people leave it.

But that's what I'm curious about. Islam is almost as big as Christianity, but only very very rare does someone leave it. The sad thing is that only on Pet Talk, I see so many Christian become atheist and don't even believe in God. If this is so many just of Pet Talk, I can't imagine how many in whole world. :confused: But why is this? That's what I'm curious. I know lots of priests here that were top priests and left Christianity and became Muslims after learning about the religion. Judhism is small religion so you don't see lots of people leaving that, but Islam is a very big religion like Chrisitanity and people don't leave. Only very very few. Do people leave Christianity because of *mean* preaching, I mean, people preaching in a mean style? :confused:

[wolfsoul]

I left because I stopped believeing..I went to the science side of things..lol..I also had very bad bouts of depression and I felt like God was punishing me...Soon I started cursing at God, which made me feel sad, and so I told God that I needed a break from everything for a while...My break lasted quite a while..and then, I just stopped.

I don't NOT believe actually, I'm just not sure. Call me ignorant, because I am. I DO believe in a higher intelligence, just the whole idea of certain things confuses me and seems impossible to me..I don't like to live my life trying to comprehend something that doesn't make sense..

That's pretty much it :)

[lotrfreak]

I thought i had apologized. arent we supposed to forgive others 70 times 7? Yes the Bible does say to respect your elders, unless they go against the Bible. God puts people in authority over us so we can learn how to deal with people in authority, but like many say, we shouldn't jump off a bridge because they do

[lotrfreak]

i am not trying to push my belief on anyone because i talk with the only facts i know. The words of God, the Bible. If you are saying i come here to win "lost" souls then so are you. You are sating your beliefs just as i have stated mine.
Why are you telling me it is bizarre to tell Bible Verses in my posts. Do you not take things from Darwin, Isaac Asimov or others? hmmmm

[wolfsoul]

Do you not take things from Darwin, Isaac Asimov or others? hmmmm um, who? Isn't taking things breaking a commandment? ;)

[cali]

I really dont know what I beileve, exept that I will NEVER beleive that the earth started from 2 nothings coming together and turning into something:rolleyes: my dad says I cant beleive evoloution and creation at the same time, but I do. I belive that go created everything, but in a primitve way, and we evolveed over time, but NOT from monkeys. her is a question for you people that think humans evovled from monkeys.
why do they still exist and are not evolving? I do tink it is possable for a higher being to be in existce but I do not think the big bang theory explains a thing.
so let me get this straight all of a sudden out of nowhere absolutly nothing explodes, and turns into the earth.:confused:

[lotrfreak]

in case u werent being sarcastic: I meant thay quote things from Darwin and Isaac Asimov

[kohala]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
You are sating your beliefs just as i have stated mine.

I imagine there's a lot of belief sating on this thread :D

[babolaypo65]

LOL This really did make me laugh out loud. Good catch.:D

[lotrfreak]

how about we do start a new thread. Begin this post over so that we can talk in a calm and rational manner instead of at each others' throats

[lotrfreak]

Or perhaps, we could just start anew in this thread. Hi I am Lord of the Rings Freak. Iwas discussing in class the topic of evolution vs. creation. What is your view?

[mugsy]

I already stated my view, but would like to add that don't knock it if you haven't studied it. Saying that God created everything 10,000 years ago is just as narrowminded as saying that it was all science with no help from anywhere. The physics of the Big Bang just makes sense. As for evolving from monkeys....I answered that one already. 1. We aren't even CLOSE to monkeys...we are, however, close to apes. 2. We did not evolve FROM anything that still exists. 3. It would be mutations that cause evolution. 4. Not all mutations are bad.

[lotrfreak]

what about x-men. Is that true too. are we all gonna be throwin fire or freezing things in, i dont know, maybe a couple billion years or so

[lotrfreak]

where is the proof of evolution? And I quote: "We had an international conference in Rome in 1981 on the mechanisms of speciation. It was attended by many of the leading botanists, zoologists, paleontologists, geneticists, cytologists, and bioogists. The one thing on which they all agreed was that we stilll have ABSOLUTELY no idea what happens genetically during "speciation". That's a d***ing statement, but it's the truth." that quote cam from Dr. Ernst Mayr it was published in Omni Magazine, a magazine that supporst evolutionists. That came from February 1983 p. 78. Go ahead, look it up.

[Uabassoon]

lotrfreak, do you have any of your OWN ideas about evolution? I would be interested in hearing them, so far you really haven't given anything other than a bunch of quotes. It's easy to find quotes about anything and everything.

[lotrfreak]

thats very true. but everything came from someone. whoever firstsaid 2+2=4 is quoted by everyone. My ideas come from researching others who have researched themselves and so on.

[mugsy]

There is no PROOF of anything either way. Where's your proof of creationism, other than a literal interpretation of the Bible? I have lots of textbooks that support evolution, just like the literal Bible supports creationism. Like I said in an earlier post, no one will know until they die and find out!

[lotrfreak]

there is proof. God shows himself in miracuolous ways. where did the rainbow come from what do scientist have to say about that and why do theyonly come after rain. It is all in the Bible. god flooded the earth(proof of that) and promised to never flood the earth again. as a sign of his promise, he said he would give us a rainbow

[lotrfreak]

inn case you are wondering what proof i have of the flood. there are many fossils in the mountains. How did they get there? The flood covered the entire earth and carried things that were already dead from drowning up into mountains

[Soledad]

If you're so sure about it, that's great, but why start a discussion? Unless of course, you're just out to preach to us lost souls....:rolleyes:

[mugsy]

Well, let's see, 1. the fossils got there when there was a giant inland sea 2. the mountains had not been formed yet. The fossils are older than the mountains. 3. I'm not a lost soul, so please don't preach to me.

[iceyshiver21]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
there is proof. God shows himself in miracuolous ways. where did the rainbow come from what do scientist have to say about that and why do theyonly come after rain. It is all in the Bible. god flooded the earth(proof of that) and promised to never flood the earth again. as a sign of his promise, he said he would give us a rainbow

theres all scietific proof of that too...

[wolfsoul]

What do you mean there is no scientific proof for rainbows?! Did you sleep through your science class?

Light is comprised of a series of colours. In order: Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. When the light passes through anything, it will become bent, refracted light.The rain must always be present for a rainbow to appear in the sky, because it needs something to go through in order for the colours to show, and the light to bend. It's why you see rainbows in sprinklers. It why you see them in crystals.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
inn case you are wondering what proof i have of the flood. there are many fossils in the mountains. How did they get there? The flood covered the entire earth and carried things that were already dead from drowning up into mountains

plate tectonics or they died there in the mountains waiting for AAA to show up when their car broke down.:eek:

[wolfsoul]

plate tectonics or they died there in the mountains waiting for AAA to show up when their car broke down.

lol

Maybe they just climbed up there...mountain goats climb...snow leopards climb...

[carole]

Well this has been a long and now getting tiresome thread i think, i have little to say except soledad your last comment kinda summed it all up for me.
Am i mistaken but i thought doghouse was for starting controversial threads? This is one for certain.
I am staying out of this one for the most part, i just wanted to say i cant stand it when someone trys to push their beliefs especially religious ones on to me.
I have many friends who have the faith, and are very strict about their beliefs but thank goodness they never preach it to me.
I in turn respect their choice to believe as they and everyone should not to believe.
Well we will all find out in the end.

[jonza]

Dear lotrfreak

I would just like to ask you what your motives are for posting on Pet Talk.

You start off by posting a blatantly provocative statement, but then show no interest in discussing it maturely or sensibly. You are obviously not at all interested in other peoples opinions or beliefs unless they are identical with your own. You are totaly one-sided and narrow minded and reject any belief other than your own. What is the point? Are you so wise and experienced that you think you know best and that your faith is the only right one?

Surely even you can see that you are getting absolutely nowhere with this attitude, and are a very bad ambassador for your faith, doing much more damage than good.

Can you explain in a sensible manner why you are wasting our time?

john

How about posting something on PETS for a change.

[wolfsoul]

Definatly agreed, and very well spoken.

[lotrfreak]

First, of all, I NEVER said science was bad. second of all, i have posted on the pet topics. third, i am not pushing my religious beliefs. but i assure you the bible is a hihg percentage of my proof. Fourth, i did not start this thread blatantly, because if you will remeber I began this thread again by asking what others' views are on creation vs evolution

[yorkster]

You are so right Jonza!

This is my belief: fanatics exist to aid the 'evil force' (if you believe that there is actually one), specifically to drive people away from a faith in God or supreme being. More people are turned-off than anything else by those tactics.
I think someone else has said that previously in this thread, but just wanted to state it again because I feel strongly about it.

*I am much more impressed and moved by people who
live it , rather than just talking and preaching about it all the time.

[lotrfreak]

Is it wrong that I am so ecsatic in my faith beacuse Jesus Christ has shown his power to me. Why should I sway from the belief I myself have seen proven.
Example #1: When I was in kindergarden, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. She was sent to M.D Anderson. There are six people in my family, so we can't exactly afford M. D. Anderson. My mom decided to sign up for one of those things where they test new treatments on you, so she paid nothing. About a year later, she was miracuolously healed. Well, duh? some of you may say. the doctors' treatment worked. No, because on her release papers, where the doctors sign their name, was the word God. right there in black and white was the healer of my mother.
Example#2: It was the same year while my mom still had cancer. The doctors' really didn't want her to drive because of the medications she was on, but she has to get around and take care of her 4 children. She got in her car, turned the key, put it in drive, and pressed down on the gas pedal. The car didn't move. she pressed again trying to se what was the matter. she pressed again and again until she lokked at the gear light. It was in drive. If the car had moved she would have gone right through the garage. she put the drive in reverse and tried again. the car began its way down the driveway......

[Uabassoon]

began this thread again by asking what others' views are on creation vs evolution

You didn't ask for people views. You said "who can prove me wrong." That's not asking for peoples views and opinons.

[lotrfreak]

no, you obviously have not kept up on this thread. I wrote on page 9 or 10 that i was restarting this thread in a rational way. read on

[lbaker]

there is nothing "rational" about this thread of yours. I guess the only reason we are replying is because you are so silly and amusing... we must be bored * sigh *

[lotrfreak]

you still obviously didn't hear. check page 10!!!!:mad:

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
No, because on her release papers, where the doctors sign their name, was the word God. right there in black and white was the healer of my mother.


:rolleyes:


Please stop with this. You are making people back out of the faith and have no respect towards it. I am Christian, no I don't go to church but I believe in God, and what you are doing would make him sick! It's people like you that make people question God!

[wolfsoul]

I agree. People who talk about God constantly, don't try to agree with others or consider others opinions turn me off of anything that they preach.

There is one girl at my school who flipped on my friends who were running around, and joking that they were Satanists. She told them that now they are going to Hell, and started quoting from the Bible, and told them that if they want to go to Heaven, they HAVE to be Christian.

I realize that you aren't doing this, but it's a similar situation. This chick didn't even have to talk to me, and already I knew I didn't like her because of what she told my friends.

It's making me absolutely sick to my stomach to read this, because it's not always a stereotype that some Christians are "too" Christian. Yes, it's funny on TV when we see Ned Flanders and his obsession, but in real life, people like that come off as crazy, and nobody wants to listen to them, save for other people like that..

[carole]

Your thread does not particularly bother me that much, but i do wish you would stop trying to ram your beliefs down our throats, thats the only complaint i have.
I am happy for you that you believe so strongly, and i respect that, you in turn must respect others.
I think you are young, so very passionate about your beliefs, but you have a lot of living and learning experiences to go through yet.
Just dont preach so much it puts people off ok.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by luckies4me
:rolleyes:


Please stop with this. You are making people back out of the faith and have no respect towards it. I am Christian, no I don't go to church but I believe in God, and what you are doing would make him sick! It's people like you that make people question God!
.

Luckies, you and I DON'T agree on a lot of stuff, but we DO agree on this.
100%
she is out of line.

[IttyBittyKitty]

Grr....

It is sanctimonious, self-righteous individuals like lotrfreak that turned me OFF my Christianity after being a Christian for more than ten years of my youth! There are some really decent Christians out there, many of them frequent this forum, however there are just too many hypocritical, nasty and bigoted Christians out there. I believe in God, but have little faith in the purity of His church.

This discussion may very vell become a moot point in years to come - perhaps neither the evolutionists and creationists are right. Remember that, in not too distant history, both groups believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth - they were BOTH wrong. We are misguided if we believe that we are the most enlightened age of history and that we have perceived everything correctly.

The trick is, to keep an open mind.

BTW - why is lotrfreak named after a series of books that is considered "heresy" by some Christian churches?

[iceyshiver21]

Originally posted by IttyBittyKitty
BTW - why is lotrfreak named after a series of books that is considered "heresy" by some Christian churches?
I thought that lotrfreak stood for Lord Of The Rings Freak?

[Miss Meow]

Originally posted by iceyshiver21
I thought that lotrfreak stood for Lord Of The Rings Freak?

You're quicker than me, Icey. I thought it was just short for 'a whole lotta freak' and wondered why someone would call themselves that :rolleyes:

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by Miss Meow
You're quicker than me, Icey. I thought it was just short for 'a whole lotta freak' and wondered why someone would call themselves that :rolleyes:

LOL I thought he/she/it was a lottery freak.

[jonza]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
some of you may say. the doctors' treatment worked. No, because on her release papers, where the doctors sign their name, was the word God. right there in black and white was the healer of my mother.

Fister suggests that you may have been talking about your faith a bit too much to the doctor, and he wrote "Oh My God!" underneath :rolleyes:

[IttyBittyKitty]

I took "LOTR" to stand for Lord of the Rings ... and some churches consider the books and the movies to be heresy (because they are about magic and that type of malarkey) ... in particular, the Harry Potter books have also been slammed by some extremists for the same reasons ... a bit silly, really!

[babolaypo65]

Yeah, its Lord of the Rings Freak, according to her. And it gave me pause too, considering....


Originally posted by lotrfreak
Or perhaps, we could just start anew in this thread. Hi I am Lord of the Rings Freak. Iwas discussing in class the topic of evolution vs. creation. What is your view?

[wolfsoul]

I never thought about the name contradicting Christianity -- that's funny :D

And I think it's really stupid that people are slamming books because they have magic, other religion, etc. I think that Harry Potter books are fun to read (although I just wait for the movie to come out :p), and lots of people like lotr....another type of Christian I don't like --- Soon we will all be illiterate.

[mugsy]

Religious fanatics have always done that to books....look at Catcher in the Rye.....it's been burned by "Christians" for a long time. Until people learn to be tolerant of different beliefs, it will always be a problem.

I teach with a lot of people who claim to be Christian, but have told me I am going to go to hell because I believe in evolution and that people who are NOT Christian (accepting of Jesus Christ as their savior) will go to hell. Now, what about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccan....I don't think so.

[marysmerrycats]

I don't know about going to hell... but I have always been told, read, and believed, that if you beleive in God, and in Jesus, that you will be with them in the after life. I don't know about those other religions... only God knows the answer for sure. wiccan tho, I am not saying they bound for hell, but it is not honoring God.

[mugsy]

I don't know that much about Wicca but, I know that they honor a higher being that is more powerful than themselves.

[Desert Arabian]

Kayla...is that you!?!?!
(Inside joke, hehe, read below to get the joke.)

This thread sounds like a thread to be made by my old friend Kayla (she was a Lord of the Rings "freak" too, how weird!!). She rammed her religion down my throat so hard, she almost ripped out my voice box. She kept on telling me if I didn't get baptised, I would burn in hell, and my soul would be tortured. She literally arranged my baptism with her mother (with out my family and I knowing it), and asked my mom if her mom could be my God mother and would it be ok if Laura (me) got baptised. When she would come over to visit she would bring the Bible over EVERYTIME and read excerpts to me and ask me what I thought they meant/what was my opinion on that matter, for about 1 hour. I was polite (of course), so I answered all her questions, and intently listened to her reading...

Finally, I couldn't take it anymore, it was so extreme I said "That's it, our 8 year friendship is over."

I would have had no problem with discussing this topic with her lightly, but she was WAY over the top...like this thread.

[zippy-kat]

OK... When I first read "LOTRFREAK" .. I thought it was LOT from the Bible... and I kept racking my brain trying to remember what it was that he did, why someone would choose it as a namesake.

Then it hit me... Lord Of The Rings. Duh! :rolleyes:

[yorkster]

Originally posted by mugsy


I teach with a lot of people who claim to be Christian, but have told me I am going to go to hell because I believe in evolution and that people who are NOT Christian (accepting of Jesus Christ as their savior) will go to hell. Now, what about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccan....I don't think so.


Hell will be a very crowded place.

[babolaypo65]

If memory serves even Icey shiver's favorite book was banned by certain religious groups at one point in time.

I certainly will NEVER understand book burning. My fellow New Mexican (zippykat) will probably remember how we made national news last year because Roswell had a public burning of Harry Potter (sponsored by one of the more zealous christian churches).


Originally posted by mugsy
Religious fanatics have always done that to books....look at Catcher in the Rye.....it's been burned by "Christians" for a long time. Until people learn to be tolerant of different beliefs, it will always be a problem.

[lotrfreak]

Excuse me, maybe the churches who rejected Lord of the Rings didn't do their research. John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is a Christian. In fact, he talked to C. S. Lewis and that famed author converted to Christianity. Harry Potter is not Christian and it is written on a bunch of cr**. Tolkien, however, took some of his ideas from the Bible for the books. In fact, C.S. Lewis did the same thing in the Chronicles of Narnia, and Tolkien was a little disappointed at first that he sort of took his idea, but he very quickly got over it. I also do not know why me stating my beliefs is ramming it down your throat. I am telling exactly what i know about creation just as you are about evolution. Stop ramming YOUR beliefs down my throat.
Evolution, they say, is based on the scientific method. Make an observation, consult prior knowledge, form a hypothesis, design your experiment, collect information, interpret data, consult prior knowledge, form conclusions. However, no one was there when this supposedly happened, so how could they perform the scientific method. Evolution is not based on the scientific method and is therefore just as "religious" as belief in creation.

[binka_nugget]

I don't want to get envolved in this debate...because I don't wanna ram anything down anyone's throat and vice versa...but "Jesus Freak!!!!" has asked me to asked for your emails because she isn't allowed on this board anymore. I'm not sure who she had in mind..but if you wouldn't mind, could everyone post their emails? and then I'll send them to her...
Thx

[RICHARD]

proof of evolution has been sitting under everyone's nose for the last 25 plus years.....



planet of the apes movies......


explain THAT away...

[lotrfreak]

mine is [email protected]
that goes for my aim address too

[lotrfreak]

oh, about planet of the apes, if i would watch it i might be able to again defend my belief. it seems as freaky as Chuckie to me

[marysmerrycats]

I don't know that much about Wicca but, I know that they honor a higher being that is more powerful than themselves

yes, they do... but it is not God. and I am not condemning them, I am just saying what I have been raised with the belief and there may very well be some that practice it that still do beleive in God. I beleive that when you die, if you believe in God, then you will be with him for eternity.

[babolaypo65]

But richard... it seems we've DEvolved with that terrible terrible remake of planet of the apes. helena bonham carter what were you thinking!!!


Originally posted by RICHARD
proof of evolution has been sitting under everyone's nose for the last 25 plus years.....



planet of the apes movies......


explain THAT away...

[wolfsoul]

I don't know that much about Wicca but, I know that they honor a higher being that is more powerful than themselves

Yes, pagens believe in the God and the Goddess. I can't remember exactly (i used to practice wicca) but I do remember that the God is the god of the sun, as well as many other things, and the Goddess is the goddess of the moon, harvesting, and other stuff ;)

I don't believe in that stuff though...

[yorkster]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
Harry Potter is not Christian and it is written on a bunch of cr**.


WHAT??!
you're not serious, right?
if you are, then I guess you'd want Harry potter books banned/burned?!!

[IttyBittyKitty]

LOTRFREAK,

Just because LOTR was written by someone you "approve" of does it make it okay to read these books yet codemn Harry Potter books? It's the same bleedin' genre here. Tolkien may have been a Christian, but that very fact and any religious messages he is trying to convey in the books are well hidden indeed.

Meanwhile, why cant LOTR post here any more?

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by IttyBittyKitty

Meanwhile, why cant LOTR post here any more?
I think you mean Jesus Freak.

[wolfsoul]

Excuse me, maybe the churches who rejected Lord of the Rings didn't do their research. John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is a Christian

So you're saying that you wouldn't read a book if it isn't written by a Christian? :mad: It's not just in this statement, but in all of yours that is racist. You are a racist! You judge people by their religion. You judge people's writing by their religion. And that is racism. I don't judge you by your religion, but by the way you speak of it. I judge you by the way you condemn others opinions, and the way you only consider yourself as "right" when everyone knows that no one person is known to be right.

So --- you wouldn't read "The Cage" by Ruth Minsky, because she is Jewish, and because her book is based on the true story of the Haullocaust, and about how the Jewish suffered during the time of war?

You wouldn't read books that are written by Catholics, Muslims, Pagens, Satanists, Budists, or any others, because it spoke of what they believe in? That's pretty much what you are saying, and if it is true, than why do you linger here and listen to what we write? Not all of us are Christian, and everyone here is displaying their belief in an opinionated way, so why do you choose to read now, when you reject the writing of professional authors who take time and effort into their work?

[lotrfreak]

you are taking my words right out of context!:mad: I don't like to be accused of something that i would never have doner nor would ever think of doing. i said it is written by a Christian SO WHAT!!!!! that does not mean i only read Christian books. you said it is wierd that i am a Christian and yet read books that are rejected by some fellow Christians. i said they hadn't done their research beacuse he is christian. i dont read harry potter because it has to deal with sorcery and witchcraft and is in no way a part of the bible. i always thought the chronicles of narnia were bad until i knew they were founded in the bible. i read books by many different types of authors who have many different types of religious background. in fact, half of the Bible is written by Jews(through God of course). Have you ever heard of Watership Down? Why it is one of my most very favorite books. It is about rabbits, but it is no children's book. It is written by Richard Adams and you what, I have absolutely no idea what his religion is, and i know absolutely nothing about him except that he is a famed author for one of his other books, Shardik.

[Desert Arabian]

WOAH! Wolfsoul....your post made my jaw drop! lol! :eek:


I personally don't get why some Christian churches are against Tolkien/Lord of the Rings, since J.R.R. incorporated a fair amount of Christian imagery/symbolism!?!?!?!

[wolfsoul]

you are taking my words right out of context

SO? That's why we have the quote button, -duh-


i dont read harry potter because it has to deal with sorcery and witchcraft and is in no way a part of the bible.

Hmmmm.....well let's see, Lord of the Rings has quite alot of witch craft, sorcery...:rolleyes: I haven't heard anything about the bible in it so far, but correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't enjoy the first movie and drowsed a bit..

Thanks YLL :D lol

[lotrfreak]

he didnt quote the bible he just had the ideas molded in his book. and u know what hollywood does to books.

[yorkster]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
l i dont read harry potter because it has to deal with sorcery and witchcraft and is in no way a part of the bible.

however, this is in the Bible (Exodus 21.7):
'If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not be freed at the end of six days as the men are.'
then it goes on to say that if she displeases him, she can be sold as long as it's not to 'foreigners' :confused:

and this (Exodus 35.2):
'Work six days only; the seventh day is a day of solemn rest, a holy day to be used to worship Jehovah; anyone working on that day must die. Don't even light fires in your home on that day.'


So, what you're saying is that Harry Potter books are bad/evil, but these quotes from the Bible are to be followed?
I grew up going to church and Bible study, and it has
always been strange to me when people say things like "this is the truth because it says so in the Bible!"
:confused:

[carole]

HERE HERE WELL SAID.

[babolaypo65]

Just to be precise, and not meaning to split hairs, but Tolkien was a staunch Catholic, When C.S. Lewis converted, it wasn't to Catholism (if memory serves, he was Anglican)...(nor was it because of Tolkien-your post was amiguous there).

While I agree there are certain themes in LOTR that are "christian" in nature, and while Tolkien noted that he did use some biblical stories and concepts as inspiration, it IS also full of pagan references, and obvious pagan tradition, as well as references to mystical, magical things that would not sit well with many different types of christians. In addition Tolkien states openly that the main inspiration for LOTR was the wars and politics of Europe in the 20th century, and HITLER. That's a particularly non-christian theme.

I find it troubling to say that LOTR is "christian" and that it's therefore okay to read. Does this suggest that all things written by Catholics, and all beliefs of the Catholic church would be acceptable to your "brand" of christianity?

Many books, and films have themes that could be viewed as Christian. Look at the Arthurian legends for an obvious lesson. Heck, look at the Matrix! Forest Gump....

My point isn't to argue religion. I don't believe in that. My point is this: LOTR is a novel, written by a man who had many influences, and inspirations. It is a work of fiction, regardless of the inspirations. All creative writing has inspiration from somewhere.

Harry Potter is also a work of fiction. As was Catcher in the Rye, and To Kill a Mockingbird. Each has its place and its audience. You may choose not to read them if you'd like.

If I were obnoxious, and you spoke to ME of Harry Potter as evil, withcraft.... I would hold you to that standard with all your entertainment sources. I would point out any hypocrisy when you chose to view a movie, or listen to someone's music that had non-christian, or magical, withcraft themes.
No bewitched, no sabrina, and, no LOTR as far as I'm concerned, GANDALF used magic, that was not of a christian source, nor a gift of Jesus. If anything it was Pagan.

LOTRfreak: I broke my own rule, I entered the religious part of this discussion. I'm sure I'll regret it, however, I am forever a teacher at my core, and your youthfull arrogance brought out the teacher in me.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
he didnt quote the bible he just had the ideas molded in his book. and u know what hollywood does to books.

??? Hollywood can't do anything to actual books without the concent of the author!!!??? So no, I do not know what Hollywood does to books, but I do know what Hollywood does to movies.

And if you are hinting about Lord of the Rings (movie)...Peter Jackson went along with the book, and filmed the movie the way J.R.R Tolkien would most likely have filmed it. So Hollywood didn't do anything to twist up that movie. The books and the trilogy movies are 90% the same.

He, who's "he"??

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
he didnt quote the bible he just had the ideas molded in his book. and u know what hollywood does to books.


they make really bad movies???

getting back to creationism and evolution....

i could never present enough evidence to convince you, myself
or anyone else what really happened when god, or the universe
decided put the planet together.

while i do not believe in creationism, i have looked thru a telescope or seen pictures from the Hubble (the telescope)-
at that point it is pretty hard to think to yourself that THERE IS NOT A FORCE larger than we are...

there are times when science is more believeable - you can hold it in your hands- like fossils...they came from somewhere and until you can dimiss their 'weight' you can't just say,
"no, that cannot be!"

religion is a process where the unexplainable is left to the
pages of the bible and the way that a religious person may interpret them......a world created by god is far more difficult to
prove than the idea a spinning cloud of gas and dust coagulates into a star and 9 planets.

religion is a highly personalized belief, an answer to the mysteries of the world. to stand on a street corner and challenge everyone to prove you wrong is a way to stir up the masses.

challenging people to prove you are right is a far better challenge-
you get people to think and question the reason that they are here........

while i do not believe in one particular god it's far easier to question the future than it is to question the past, after all, the past is lost to us.

the future is in the next minute or hour, we have a hand in what that brings, we have a chance to mold it into what we want from tomorrow.

religion is not a bad thing, but when it espouses love, acceptance and understanding and turns it's back on tangible, scientific fact-something's wrong.

look at history thru the middle ages and see how the science minds of that time had to deal with the RC church....

the god of creationism never put anyone to death,
it's the god of religion that has the funny little quirks.
:eek:

[Nomilynn]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
??? Hollywood can't do anything to actual books without the concent of the author!!!??? So no, I do not know what Hollywood does to books, but I do know what Hollywood does to movies.

This isn't necessarily true. It takes an author with a lot of influence to actually be able to help write the script. Take the movie "I Know What You Did Last Summer." That was *based* on the book by Lois Duncan, and the book is completely different than the movie. Actually, if they had stayed true to the book, it would have made a much better movie. Most times, the book is signed over with a "promise" to hold true to the story.

I have not read the LOTR books, but I have heard that the movie did a pretty good job at staying true to the story line.

[carole]

Well what can i say a down to earth KIWI produced LORD OF THE RINGS, thats why, sorry folks just had to put a plug in there for us KIWIS lol

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by carole
Well what can i say a down to earth KIWI produced LORD OF THE RINGS, thats why, sorry folks just had to put a plug in there for us KIWIS lol


carole,

you and i know that those delicious, fuzzy, brown fruits from down under couldn't possibly 'produce' a film....;)


lol

[carole]

Now Now Richard you BEHAVE yourself, you are taking the mickey out of me, actually we are called Kiwis after our native bird SO THERE not the Kiwi fruit, lol, nice try though, yeah didnt we do WELL. I have never even bothered to see LORD OF THE RINGS not my kinda movie, it was filmed about 15 mins away from where i live.

[carole]

By the way i like an American who has a sense of humour:) ;)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by carole
By the way i like an American who has a sense of humour:) ;)


then you'll probably dislike my ignorance for thinking of the fruit and not the bird!!!!!
your country is absolutely beautiful...now, i truly believe that god has a hand in making places like NZ....

i can see he sometimes loses concentration as he treks around the planet...:)

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Nomilynn
This isn't necessarily true. It takes an author with a lot of influence to actually be able to help write the script. Take the movie "I Know What You Did Last Summer." That was *based* on the book by Lois Duncan, and the book is completely different than the movie. Actually, if they had stayed true to the book, it would have made a much better movie. Most times, the book is signed over with a "promise" to hold true to the story.

I have not read the LOTR books, but I have heard that the movie did a pretty good job at staying true to the story line.

Hmm...I never saw "I Know What You Did Last Summer", I didn't know that that issue happend. That's interesting, thanks for correcting me!!!

I am currently in the middle of the third LOTR book, and so far the movies are pretty darn close to the books. There are just some scenes in the book which I wish Peter put in the movie. :D

[lotrfreak]

J. R. R. Tolkien is dead. Tolkien scholars said that he would be very disappointed if he were still alive at the outcome of this movie. have u even read the books? do u even know if it is 90% true?

[Nomilynn]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
Hmm...I never saw "I Know What You Did Last Summer", I didn't know that that issue happend. That's interesting, thanks for correcting me!!!

You aren't missing much :rolleyes: :D I do recommend the book though. It's really good. You should read it, and then watch the movie, and see how badly it was butchered.. yes, pun intended ;)

[lotrfreak]

it is so not like the book, however, i do agree that NZ is very beautiful

[lotrfreak]

*consent

[catland]

Its never possible to capture all of a book in a movie - there just isn't enough time.

One of my favorite books "The Stand" by Stephen King, was turned into an eight hour mini-series, and even then, some of my favorite parts of the book were left out.

[catland]

Originally posted by carole
actually we are called Kiwis after our native bird

I guess that's why we Americans refer to each other as a bunch of Turkeys.:rolleyes:

[babolaypo65]

It's true, my high school students loved "I Know what you did last summer" so you know what i did? I read it one summer (pun intended). Great book. Not so great movie.


Originally posted by Nomilynn
You aren't missing much :rolleyes: :D I do recommend the book though. It's really good. You should read it, and then watch the movie, and see how badly it was butchered.. yes, pun intended ;)

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by lotrfreak
J. R. R. Tolkien is dead. Tolkien scholars said that he would be very disappointed if he were still alive at the outcome of this movie. have u even read the books? do u even know if it is 90% true?

I know he is dead. If you read the post above yours I said I am in the middle of the thrid book: The Return of the King. Yes, I do know it is pretty darn true (i.e. the 90% part). Every single day, I talk about, review, and critque the book and movie with Mrs. VanCaster (reading teacher @ school), she is a HUGE LOTR/Tolkien fan.

I went to The University of Marquette with the reading teacher to see the Tolkien display they have. They bought the original pieces of Tolkien from his son, Christopher... including the notes J.R.R. wrote on the back of chruch lunch menus (since paper was rare then) during the war . I got to see and touch it all, what was once in the hand of Tolkien himself (made my stomach twist with joy! :) ). We also got to listen to a presentation about Tolkien and his books.


it is so not like the book,
Then you must not have been reading it well. It's one of the closest out there. Of course it's not going to be PERFECT...other wise the movies would be 72 hours long each. There lines which are spoken in the movie, which are word for word in the books, same with many senes.

LOL, sorry people, I know this is not sticking to the lame topic of evloution, I just wanted to state some facts. :):D



You aren't missing much I do recommend the book though. It's really good. You should read it, and then watch the movie, and see how badly it was butchered.. yes, pun intended

LOL, when I get done with The Return of the King, I'll think about checking that book out.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
I guess that's why we Americans refer to each other as a bunch of Turkeys.:rolleyes:

lololololol


m-o-o-n spells turkey!

now wasn't that a shame......eight hours and they could not do it justice (The Stand)

one great reason that a movie like LOTR is possible is the fact that
CGI (?) has made such steps in the last few years....

now, isn't this a hoot?

bear with me for a minute...

you are a producer and make a movie.
isn't that just like god creating the world?
you can prove the producer is behind the whole production,
but he never shows up IN the movie so you just have to
take the word of the end credits that there really IS a producer.....


see there it is- the Planet of the Apes, evolution, creationism(from the producers standpoint) all rolled into one.....


go figure!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover

LOL, sorry people, I know this is not sticking to the lame topic of evloution, I just wanted to state some facts. :):D




LOL, when I get done with The Return of the King, I'll think about checking that book out.



read the Simarillion by tolkein-see how he 'starts' his world..
he took a little bit from the bible but in a much more enjoyable form......don't worry about sticking to the topic....i put it all together! lololol

thanks!
keep reading!

[babolaypo65]

Yellowlablover: it sounds like you have a great reading teacher. lucky you. That's a field trip I would have loved to have taken. My family all loved LOTR. When my nephews were younger we used to read it together. Even though they are all grown now, we went to the first, and the second movie all together, on opening day. We loved both, and were very pleased with the adaptation. And yes, while *some* scholars believe he'd be disappointed, others think he would be proud. I would bet his family would think so.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by babolaypo65
Yellowlablover: it sounds like you have a great reading teacher. lucky you. That's a field trip I would have loved to have taken. My family all loved LOTR. When my nephews were younger we used to read it together. Even though they are all grown now, we went to the first, and the second movie all together, on opening day. We loved both, and were very pleased with the adaptation. And yes, while *some* scholars believe he'd be disappointed, others think he would be proud. I would bet his family would think so.

I *LOVE* my reading teacher! She is so awesome! But...I won't get to see her anymore! I go to the high school next year, so she won't be there, waaaaa!! I won't be able to have my LOTR Talk everyday. :( :( :(

I am jelous of her, lol, she has a hand written letter from Christopher Tolkien..all I have to say is for an 80+ man he has the coolest handwriting I have ever seen!!!! I love it!! I want it!! lol!! ;) :p


don't worry about sticking to the topic....i put it all together! lololol

Thanks Richard! I'm glad to know someone around here is ready to do the dirty work. hehe.

[marysmerrycats]

You wouldn't read books that are written by Catholics, Muslims, Pagens, Satanists, Budists, or any others, because it spoke of what they believe in?

I am not meaning to get into this, but I just wanted to say, about part of that quote, I would NEVER read anything by a satanist! no way! i have read a very little bit of wicca, but I would not read satanism. wicca is not something I would ever read again either!
I don't compare the other religions to either of those. because they all believe in God, in their own way, but still God.
I would read harry potter books, just for the entertainment of the story. it does notmean I am going to switch to wicca or sorcery. I mean as a fictional book, I would read, not about nonfiction ideas. does that make any sense? I think this is getting to be too much deep thinking for me tonight.:eek:

[zippy-kat]

Ok... here's the thing guys... it's NOT racism. It's called bigotry.

Now, that being said. I am not calling her a bigot. I am not calling her a racist. What I am doing is simply correcting a mis-used word.

Sorry... I'm an English major and it was driving me nuts!

[wolf_Q]

Woah! What a response! LOL I agree with most of what you said. That is PURE racist not reading a book written by an author that's not Christian. Books are not based on the religion of the author. The author may be a Jew or a Christian, or a Muslim, or whatever, but his/her writing does not have to be religious related. Anyone from any religion can write as much of a fictional story as a Christian without it having anything to do with religion, that people from other religions wouldn't read it. Gosh that is SO racist.

Umm.....wouldn't somebody being "racist" about authors not read books written by people of a certain race.....not religion...:confused:

[wolf_Q]

Oops Tonya, I think we posted at the same time. ;)

[Nomilynn]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
Ok... here's the thing guys... it's NOT racism. It's called bigotry.

Now, that being said. I am not calling her a bigot. I am not calling her a racist. What I am doing is simply correcting a mis-used word.

Sorry... I'm an English major and it was driving me nuts!

It's drivin' me nuts too! (Another English major here). Prejudiced would work too. But it's not racism. That's a pretty loaded insult to be throwing around, especially when it is being used incorrectly.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by Nomilynn
It's drivin' me nuts too! (Another English major here). Prejudiced would work too. But it's not racism. That's a pretty loaded insult to be throwing around, especially when it is being used incorrectly.
agreed

[wolf_Q]

I'm saying that "racist" is not the correct term for somebody against certain religions. Racist would have to do with the color of their skin/race, not what religion they belong to.

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by popcornbird
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry, but I didn't get what you said. I thought that was what I was saying. :confused:

Ps. Prejudiced is a better word. :)

I think Amy is trying to say that racism involves well, race -- not liking someone because of the color of their skin. Bigotry is not liking someone for their religious beliefs (ie, "Mine's better than your's"). Prejuidice sort of encompasses both those ideas.

And this may be for another topic, but Nom's statement got me to thinking... Is there heavy connotations/associations carried w/ the word 'racist' or is it so (justly or unjustly) over-used that it's become cheap? Just curious on people's thoughts....

[zippy-kat]

amy! :D it's scary the way we do that (post at the same time)....

[wolf_Q]

LOL :p

[wolfsoul]

Sorry for the word, it's just that last year there was a huge presentation about racism, and the people had said that racism includes being prejudiced towards colour, sexuality, gender, religion, origination, and probably a few others I don't remember. I agree though, that I used a harsh word. "Prejudiced" is just fine, I'll use that word ;)

[wolfsoul]

Wait, I just looked up race in the dictionary, and it included: a group, class or kind of people having some feature or quality in common.

Also, I looked up racism, and it included this : prejudic or discrimination against a person or group because of a difference in ethnic or cultural background.

These do not nessecarily speak of the colour of skin?

ps, am I a racist because I am racist against racists? ;) Always wondered...:p

[RICHARD]

i am a big fan of racism.



I love NASCAR and FORMULA 1.....i don't care too much for drag racing,,,too short

[catland]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I love NASCAR and FORMULA 1.....i don't care too much for drag racing,,,too short


You don't like to see racing that involves men in short skirts? (I know, too easy - but what the heck)

[lbaker]

catland you are just too fast for me.... i was just about to say the same thing :D
Laurie

[RICHARD]

"a man's gotta know his limits...."

drag racing......lol...

out here in lost angeles it's not a sport, it's a lifestyle.......

does that qualify for evolution???

[lotrfreak]

whoa! Back up the buck. I never said i only read books by Christian authors. Where in the world did you get that from. plus when you said that the first time, i thought i had explained myself. Do you not even listen to me? This is the third time I defend myself and you keep going on telling me how horrible I am. if you are going to be in a debate, at least listen to the other side of the argument. Geez i am guilty unless proven innocent....

[Desert Arabian]

if you are going to be in a debate, at least listen to the other side of the argument.

EXACTLY!


:o ;)

[lotrfreak]

pardon?

[GoldenRetrLuver]

posted by lotrfreak:

if you are going to be in a debate, at least listen to the other side of the argument.


I agree
:)

[wolfsoul]

whoa! Back up the buck. I never said i only read books by Christian authors. Where in the world did you get that from. plus when you said that the first time, i thought i had explained myself. Do you not even listen to me? This is the third time I defend myself and you keep going on telling me how horrible I am. if you are going to be in a debate, at least listen to the other side of the argument. Geez i am guilty unless proven innocent....

I apologize if I offended you, but it seems now that you are trying to twist what you said. You said that you don't read Harry Potter because it is about magic, spells, says nothing about the bible, and is not written by a Christian. Yet you also told us that you read lotr, which is about magic, spells, says nothing about the Bible, and is written by a Christian. You are contradicting what you just said before.



And this may be for another topic, but Nom's statement got me to thinking... Is there heavy connotations/associations carried w/ the word 'racist' or is it so (justly or unjustly) over-used that it's become cheap? Just curious on people's thoughts....

Here in Kelowna, racism is an issue that is taken very seriously. It's a sensitive thing, and people in schools that have now been called "racism free" will expell students who are prejudice against pretty much anything..

In my old middle school, I remember when we had many presentations because people kept saying phrases like "That's so Jewish" and calling people with different coloured skin names, and saying "That's gay" or "you homo," and it became to much to bear. I still have friends who say things like that, and I sometimes need to remind them. Ecspecially one in particular *sigh* ;)

[yorkster]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
I You said that you don't read Harry Potter because it is about magic, spells, says nothing about the bible, and is not written by a Christian. Yet you also told us that you read lotr, which is about magic, spells, says nothing about the Bible, and is written by a Christian. You are contradicting what you just said before.



YUP, that's what I understood Lotrfreak to be saying also.
I'm a little confused :confused:

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Here in Kelowna, racism is an issue that is taken very seriously. It's a sensitive thing, and people in schools that have now been called "racism free" will expell students who are prejudice against pretty much anything..

In my old middle school, I remember when we had many presentations because people kept saying phrases like "That's so Jewish" and calling people with different coloured skin names, and saying "That's gay" or "you homo," and it became to much to bear. I still have friends who say things like that, and I sometimes need to remind them. Ecspecially one in particular *sigh* ;)

That's pretty interesting!! I've never heard of "racism free" schools.

I was just curious on how people view it. Personally, I feel that it's a cop out for many things (ie used unjustly or in the wrong context). For instance a person of xyz race being stopped for a speeding ticket and blaming the cop for being racist/prejudiced. (Yes, it has happened in this town... city's in a law suit right now.)

When it is "true" racism, I do think it's a SERIOUS issue. But again, it has become a bit of a "cheap" phrase. It's tossed around pretty lightly these days and I wonder if the "true" instances of racism are overlooked because of it. Sort of a "don't cry wolf" issue...

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
That's pretty interesting!! I've never heard of "racism free" schools.

I was just curious on how people view it. Personally, I feel that it's a cop out for many things (ie used unjustly or in the wrong context). For instance a person of xyz race being stopped for a speeding ticket and blaming the cop for being racist/prejudiced. (Yes, it has happened in this town... city's in a law suit right now.)

When it is "true" racism, I do think it's a SERIOUS issue. But again, it has become a bit of a "cheap" phrase. It's tossed around pretty lightly these days and I wonder if the "true" instances of racism are overlooked because of it. Sort of a "don't cry wolf" issue...

I think you present a good point. It's the same thing with sexual harrassment. Here's a good example. A client I have works at a law firm so she was involved in the whole thing:

A women works in the office of a construction company. One day she comes in wearing all purple. Purple shirt, purple skirt, purple hose, purple shoes, purple earrings. So one of the guys says to her, "hey, you must be wearing purple underwear, too."! She filed and won $50,000 for sexual harrassment. What a shame. First off all, if should be illegal to wear a butt ugly outfit like that. Secondly, when you wear something like that you have to know you're making yourself a target. Especially at a construction company. And the lady had to bring the outfit to the lawyers office and my client said it was the most purple outfit she'd ever seen. LOL

My point is that it seems like there are more legit sexual harrassment cases out there and this one was just a waste of time and I think it de-values (is that a word?) the truly important issue.

[zippy-kat]

My sentiments exactly, CK!!

an all purple outfit...hmmm.... interesting.:eek:

[Cheshirekatt]

Well and the thing is......she probably WAS wearing purple underwear! LOL

[zippy-kat]

LOL probably :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Cheshirekatt


My point is that it seems like there are more legit sexual harrassment cases out there and this one was just a waste of time and I think it de-values (is that a word?) the truly important issue.

my favorite sexual harrassment law is you
'cannot look at a woman for X amount of seconds,
after that point it is considered leering and THAT'S sexual harrassment....'

purple underwear?

you KNOW she was......what self respecting woman would go thru all that trouble to look 'purple' and not match her underwear...on the other hand maybe she was 'unmatched' when she left the house and kinda pissy about no being able to pull off the coordination.

[catland]

purple underwear? I bet she never put pancakes on her bunny.

My theory on wacko court cases like that - the defendant thought that the whole thing was so stupid and laughable that he didn't get the best lawyer possible. The plaintiffs lawyer was able to clobber him.

and the fashion police should arrest her for wearing all purple - what was she doing - channelling Barney?

[Nomilynn]

OMG I can't believe she would even file! :p If it had been me (and no, I would never wear something like that unless it was Halloween) my IMMEDIATE response would have been "Hmm wouldn't YOU like to know ;) " and walked out. People seriously need to lighten up!!! :D

[lbaker]

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple - With a red hat which doesn't go... And press alarm bells...And run my stick along the public railings
and learn to spit.........
L

[catland]

Originally posted by lbaker
When I am an old woman I shall wear purple - With a red hat which doesn't go... And press alarm bells...And run my stick along the public railings
and learn to spit.........
L

:D

[Cheshirekatt]

Originally posted by RICHARD
my favorite sexual harrassment law is you
'cannot look at a woman for X amount of seconds,
after that point it is considered leering and THAT'S sexual harrassment....'

If that's the case then I'm being sexually harrassed by my cats every day! :D

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
If that's the case then I'm being sexually harrassed by my cats every day! :D

OH OH...
seeing that eddie is a male.............


yikes!