A Offensive Webpage

[ewgirl401]

deleted... sorry i thought it may help i wasnt thinking of hits

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by ewgirl401
and also, has anyone seen the new cigarette ad that features a cat and two mice holes. I just couldnt imagine a cat in a ciggarete ad! (even though they used to use little mascots)! Am i over reacting to these two things???

You know, I just saw that ad last night and immediately thought of all the pet talkers that would be upset about it. It's a cute pic, but I have no idea how they think that's going to sell more cigarettes. :rolleyes:

[moosmom]

Sick, dimented people with ALOT of time on their hands created that site.

UGH!!! :mad:

[Karen]

But by posting a link to it here, you are helping them, not hurting them!

[moosmom]

Karen's right. Everytime someone "visits" the site, it is considered a "hit" which determines the success of the site. The best thing to do is ignore it.

[bluekat]

OMG, that is a HORRIBLE website, sick people........:mad: :mad: :mad:

[ScantyNebula]

You should delete this thread to prevent other PTer's from giving this 'tard hits .. :mad:

[Housh]

Originally posted by ScantyNebula
You should delete this thread to prevent other PTer's from giving this 'tard hits .. :mad:
yeah. you should delete the thread and talking about it/getting all upset is just giving it more attention.

I'm a big advocate of freedom of speech. this is just a game like many other games that depicts violence. there are way worse things on the net. if you don't like it just avoid it.

i don't know what bothers me more seeing a game that shows cartoon violence against my favorite animal or people making hollow threats against the designers?

don't stoop below their level. also, "''tards"? grow up. i used to work with challenged people and i can assure you they wouldn't appreciate being associated with animal cruelty.

lets all pet our cats and move on.

edit: they have a warning on the site for people under 18 and cat lovers. you kinda can tell what sort of content you will be getting if you click to start the game...so why did any of you click if you knew you would be offended?

[Riku]

Who in the hell would make this? Thats just messed...

[veegan]

okay Im curious now.. what was the site called?? just wanna know if Ive seen it before or not

[Housh]

Originally posted by veegan
okay Im curious now.. what was the site called?? just wanna know if Ive seen it before or not
i don't remember the name but i'll explain it for the curious folk.

--------warning for OMG that is sick don't read-----------------------

a simple flash/shockwave game of where you have a sling shot and you have to hit the kittens so they fall into the little holes (they were actually doors and you were in the roman collusim..go figure) if you hit the cat and he/she missed the door it would splatter in a bloody mess with graphic sound effect (also the cat was kinda cute cartoon)

you got points for the cats you get in the hole. not for the cats you horribly splatter on stone wall....maybe that is a plus..haha. NO. it wasn't really a big deal. just a stupid shockwave game.

[veegan]

god. no I havent been there. that kind of crap just makes me so angry. :mad: people are such losers! it pisses me off that so many people have such little respect or humanity for animals. its that kind of mentality that leads to animal abuse, and just, the reason why so many people still eat animals.. roar.

[Housh]

just wondering, Veegan:

why do you see humans eating animals as abuse?

do you see animals eating other animals as abuse?

what do you feed your cat?

also, things like this are more upsetting than that website:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,922557,00.html

I hope you understand why i'm curious and asking these questions. if you do not feel comfortable answering and don't want to reply, I'll understand. I am not trying to cause drama ;)

[catmandu]

This is the same nonsense the people who put out the 101 uses for Dead Cats were up to. I told anyone who carreied this that i would no longer trade there , and got people to write in , and they didnt buy any this last year!:cool: A small victory for Cats!

[veegan]

okay, well, Im VERY hesitant (scared lol) to go into it here because I know vegetarianism can get to be a very hot topic very fast and I dont think this is the place. But, you asked, and I also feel not many people know the truth about the meat & dairy industries, and the abuses that occur every second. So heres a some links to sites with more info for those interested and Ill PM you the rest of my reply.

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm -photos of what life is like for the animals you eat

http://www.cok.net/- compassion over killing; awesome site for info!
-good faq: http://www.cok.net/lit/veganfaq.php

http://vegfamily.com/articles/win-argument-meat-eater.htm -awesome page, all the reasons to be veggie

Now your other questions.. No, animals eating other animals is not abuse. And techniqually, humans eating animals doesnt necessarily have to be abuse, however, today, in our society, in our world, IT IS. And in those links above you can find out why.. (Plus theres many other reasons to be veg than the abuse)
"Predators in the wild kill other animals out of necessity. Without doing so, they wouldn't survive. Humans, on the other hand, kill other animals by choice. The human body has no need for animal flesh whatsoever. In fact, it has been consistently proven that a vegan diet is generally healthier than a diet heavy with animal products. Eating animals is not necessary for human survival. Rather, it is a matter of ethics: Is it acceptable to inflict the gratuitous suffering onto countless animals for something that is indisputably unnecessary?"

As for pets:
"'Isn't meat their natural diet?'
Dogs and cats live in the uniquely unnatural environment of our homes. While “in nature” they would hunt, food now magically appears twice daily in their bowls. They are given medicine to cure illnesses, and are surgically sterilized to control their reproduction. Why insist that their diet alone remain “natural”- especially when it must come at the expense of other animals’ lives? "

And at the moment I feed my cats an all natural pet food (with meat yes) but since I have money now lol and can buy the cat food myself, (instead of my parents) when this bag runs out im switching them to vegan food! (for info on why to choose a vegan diet for pets visit: http://www.vegancats.com)

--------------

And as for that article. Okay, that makes me extremely angry. First of all.. THAT WOMAN IS A COMPLETE MORON!!!! Theres so much to say and so many questions I dont even know where to start! I dont understand how people can be so dumb! DO NOT associate her with other vegans or veganism! She is a MORON! You can easily raise healthy children on vegan diets!! (http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/veganpregnancy.htm
http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/welcome/treatmentguides/veganchildren.html
http://www.goveg.com/VegKit/vegankids.html
http://www.vegetarianbaby.com/) Human milk IS VEGAN. I just cant get over how STUPID that woman is!! Does she even have a doctor?? GRRR! Anyway.. its these kinds of stupid people stories that give veganism a bad name. Please, dont be narrowminded! :p

[Soledad]

Veegan -

I respect and agree with some of your points. The state of farming in the US is pretty horrendous. Animals are not being treated humanely.

However, I think it's pretty wrong and selfish to make your cat a vegan because of your own politics/views. Just because cats are domesticated does not mean that evolution has made them natural vegans.

[veegan]

yeah Im not surprised. Im sure a lot of people feel that way. But what is selfish about it? They get all the nutirents and everything they need to be healthy, and they arent getting all the crap that is in most pet food. Why should I sacrifice the lives of millions of other animals so my cats can eat meat when they dont even need to? If there was no alternative pet food, then Id feed them meat, but there is a safe & healthy alternative, so why should I continue to support the meat industry?

The reason I posted the link to vegancats.com was because in their faq it addresses all those issues.:

"Q: I am vegan, but I feel it is wrong to force my own morality onto my cats and dogs.

A: Is it really more wrong to ask your cat or dog to eat a healthy vegetarian diet than it is to subject countless cows, chickens and pigs to the brutal torture of the factory farm?
When you purchase slaughterhouse products, you are increasing the profitability of animal slaughter by contributing directly to the consumer demand for its products. In so doing, you are undermining the goals of the pro-animal movement and contributing to animal cruelty in a way that is equally as direct and meaningful as if you were buying hamburgers."


"Q: Isn't meat their natural diet?

A: Dogs and cats live in the uniquely unnatural environment of our homes. While “in nature” they would hunt, food now magically appears twice daily in their bowls. They are given medicine to cure illnesses, and are surgically sterilized to control their reproduction. Why insist that their diet alone remain “natural”- especially when it must come at the expense of other animals’ lives?

What’s Really in Meat-Based Pet Food:

Carcasses of euthanized cats & dogs (some with flea collars and containing sodium pentobarbital used for euthasia).
Unwanted insecticides and pharmaceuticals from diseased livestock (complete with plastic ID tags).
Rotting supermarket rejects including plastic and styrofoam packaging.
Animal parts deemed “unfit for human consumption” (heads, legs, tongues, intestines, esophagi, beaks, feathers, bones, blood, lungs, ligaments, etc.)
Diseased and cancerous body parts from the 4 D’s: dead, dying, diseased, & disabled factory-farmed animals"

Im not going to be stupid about it; I will moniter them and if they get sick, or show any signs of abnormal behaviour, etc, I will switch foods. But the majority of pets on vegan diets are just as healthy, and many people have reported their pets being healthier than before.

[Soledad]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're a bad person. I just think it's misguided. I mean, if you don't want to feed a cat meat, maybe you shouldn't have a cat.

I also have a hard time accepting information about veganism from sites like PETA. They obviously have a vested interest in promoting veganism and won't go into the downsides.

I'm sure you love your animals and will do this responsibly, though. :)

P.S. I thought this site was interesting. Vegetarian Myths (http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths/myths_truths_vegetarianism.html)

[veegan]

oh I know. :) but hey, I think youre the one whos misguided. lol so.. oh well. different opinions I guess! :rolleyes:

I understand what you mean, if I dont want to support the meat industry, then why have pets that "require" meat? Thats a good point, and Im glad you brought it up, and yes I have thought about that before. First of all, I wasnt vegan or vegetarian when I got my cats. And second of all, the main issue is, there IS an alternative. Just like theres alternatives for humans, there is also for cats & dogs now; Humans are not required to eat meat to live, and now cats & dogs arent either because of all the vegan/vegetarian pet foods avaliable. So if its not a necessity to support the meat industry, then why do it? If its not required to kill other animals for their flesh, then why do it? Now, I would never have a pet snake (even though I love them) because I couldnt stand feeding it live animals. I have fish, but I still feed them meat in their food because theres no alternative. Do you see what I mean?? :O I know we will probably never agree, but I hope you see my point a little better now. :/

And finally, when did I EVER mention PETA? :confused: I didnt even post any information from PETA (except for ONE of the FOUR veg kid links I posted)..

[Soledad]

oh I know. but hey, I think youre the one whos misguided. lol so.. oh well. different opinions I guess!

Hehehe...how true!

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you quoted PETA, but that by relying on pro-vegan sites for info, you are getting one side of the story. Did you see the site I posted? It raised some interesting points, though I don't know much about the author or any other background info. I thought it was interesting though.

I don't think that the vegan products available today are suitable alternatives. ESPECIALLY for cats. Veganism is a lofty ambition, but I think it's too timely, costly and bothersome for your average family. There is also an intriguiging economic argument against it that I posted in the first link.

[veegan]

"Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you quoted PETA, but that by relying on pro-vegan sites for info, you are getting one side of the story. Did you see the site I posted? It raised some interesting points, though I don't know much about the author or any other background info. I thought it was interesting though."

thats a good point, and yes I did go to the link. I agree, its only best/fair to discuss both sides of an issue. Yes it did raise some interesting points, most of which I was already aware. Its important to look at all sides of an issue and to make decisions on your own, and to seek out information from several sources. Which is what I did (and still do actually b/c Im still learning about veganism), when I was first exploring going vegan. What I read of that site was basically clarifing many of the issues that are often stated too simply. Ill go read it more thoroughly later. But also like you said, whos to say how true it is.. :-/ (I dont mean to bash it by saying that, I just mean I really dont know b/c I have no idea who wrote it or anything.)

And you are right it is costly, and can be bothersome, because most of the vegan pet foods avaliable require you to make the meals yourself.

[Housh]

This is a very interesting discussion and topic. It deserves a thread of it's own in pet general or pet health.

I think the fact we can discuss and debate these issues is very important.

Misinformation and ignorance are the main causes of all the world's problems.

as we have a lot to say i wish we can do this in it's own appropriate thread (funny, this coming from the person that asked the questions in the first place ;) )

if it is okay with you guys i'm going to start a thread in pet general about this because I think this is very stimulating topic. i'll bump this thread with the link to the thread once i make it.

here it is: http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24485

[RubyMutt]

I don't see any problem with having a pet on a vegan diet if they are still getting their needed nutrients. If someone has done the research and knows what to feed the animal to keep it healthy than that's fine in my eyes. That's wonderful actually...

[Soledad]

Rubymutt -

I think the problem is that there is still much debate on whether it actually does deliver the right nutrients, etc.

Veegan -

You found that site simplistic? I thought it was relatively well thought out. It had actually documented its sources which is way more than most nutrition sites do.

On an interesting side note: what do you make of the recent research showing that high protein diets do not alter the health of the dieters? It was set up to bunk Atkins' theory, but ended up supporting it. What do you make of all the recent research that shows high carbohydrate diets contribute to cancer and heart disease?

And just to wrap up, I'm really appreciative that Veegan has been so open, honest, measured and understanding. It's hard finding people who can actually discuss these things without getting personal.

[veegan]

"You found that site simplistic? I thought it was relatively well thought out. It had actually documented its sources which is way more than most nutrition sites do."

oh my goodness no! lol thats not what I meant at all! :O It was extremely well thought out indeed! I was saying that a lot of the myths it discusses, are just clarifications of statements that a lot of people (vegetarians) state too simply. for example, the thing about veganism being the solution to world hunger. I mean obviously its a much bigger issue than that, and just by people becoming veg wont magically solve it, but the fact is that livestock requires a LOT more resources (water, grain, space, etc) to raise than it does to grow plants. and those resources could be being used more efficiently to feed the world's population. So yeah, that was a good website, not simplistic at all! lol

As for that research, it is interesting. However Id like/need to know more. What do you mean "doesnt alter the health of the dieters"? :O If you know of where I could get info about the studies Id be interesting in checking it out. Because Ive also read (in books, not from PETA haha ;)) about several studies done that show high protein, & high cholestorl (whooa cant spell that word lol) diets cause higher risks of certain cancers, and heatdisease, osteoporosis, etc. Its kinda confusing because I dont think theres really been any GOOD studies to prove either way, (that high protein or high carb diets are better or worse) ya know?

And thanks for that comment, thats probably the best compliment Ive ever recieved. lol

[Soledad]

Actually, I think there is a study out there about high carb diets leading to cancer.

I find the whole topic of nutrition pretty fascinating as it is so political and complex.

One thing I will always respect about the vegan/vegetarian movement: it forces people to be more aware about their food (where it comes from, who's responsible, etc.). Far too many Americans don't think about where their food comes from and ignore some of the horrible farming practices that are going on. I think it also encourages people to actually COOK (OMG!!!) their own food instead of putting all of this pre-packaged, processed garbage (which I think is the real health danger) junk into their bodies.

[veegan]

"Far too many Americans don't think about where their food comes from and ignore some of the horrible farming practices that are going on. I think it also encourages people to actually COOK (OMG!!!) their own food instead of putting all of this pre-packaged, processed garbage (which I think is the real health danger) junk into their bodies."

so true!

[Vio&Juni]

I will never be (probably) a vegetarian, but I don't eat anymore ... now I have to think how I call it... unhealthy, unnatural meat, meaning, I eat only meat of naturally fed and naturally grown animals. And I only wear cow leather or sheep leather (only shoes) - animals that are killed to be eaten, so it's not a waste of their life just for fur or skin.
I am sure that it's both unhealthy for us to eat those stuffed with different chemicals animals and cruel to them to be grown in two months to reach the size of a 9-10 months animal.
My stomach gets sick from the thought of eating fois gras, so, I guess it's up to each one's feelings. If you feel it's wrong to do it, it's your decision and it's right. I could not live with the thought that a small chinchilla was killed just for me to wear it on my shoulders, esp. that it's not very cold here in the winter.

[smokey the elder]

I admire that you want to prepare vegan food for your cat. However, they require certain nutrients such as taurine, an amino acid that does not exist in plants. If this amino acid is missing from their diet, bad things (I think blindness among others) can occur. You can probably get taurine. However, there may be other (unknown) nutrients present only in animal products that cats need.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong (to quote Dennis Miller.)

[Denyce]

Veegan,

Have you spoken to a vet or an animal nutritionist about why cats need, yes I say NEED meat in their diet?? Just because plants have protein in them does NOT mean all of it is AVAILABLE to the body. I wish so much you would take some classes in animal nutrition before you do something so irresponsible as to feed your cat a vegetarian diet. Also while you are at it you should explore the meaning of these words.....Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. Cows are Herbivores, Humans are Omnivores and Cats are Carnivores. There are some very good reasons for these classifications. Cats digestive systems are not able to properly break down plant proteins and utilize them. Humans can do so BETTER than cats but not as well as Cows. Cats need a very high amount of protein in their diets to live long HEALTHY lives. And Smokey the Elder was right in commenting about Taurine. It is ESSENTIAL for a cats good health. It is linked with thier vision. In fact not too long ago I was watching an Animal Precinct or Animal Cops I am not sure which on Animal Planet and they had rescued numerous cats that were BLIND because the person while being well meaning was feeding them a vegetarian diet. They were not getting the Taurine they need.

I have to believe that you care for animals and love your cat because you would not be taking the stand against potential animal abuse if you didn't. However, I really wish you would do further research with a nutritionist or at the very least take some classes at a local college or university about animal nutrition before you believe everything you read.

[veegan]

you obviously havent read the other posts or links ive posted at this thread and the thread (vegan animal food) linked from this one. (heres the url: http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24485) Im WELL aware of all the issues. and we even discussed the animal precinct epiosde in that other thread. perhaps you should read everything before calling me irrisponsible and assuming Im ignorant.

[ILoveMyAbbyGirl]

Oh my... After seeing those websites, I am sick to my stomach. Those poor slaughtered cows, pigs... that's downright insane. I'm never eating a hamburger again...

[moosmom]

My cats have been fed Science Diet since they were babies. All of them are happy and healthy. To each his own.

Veegan,

I know you never mentioned PETA, but I want to make a point here. At one time I thought of becoming a vegetarian and even sent away to PETA for a packet on how to become one. I was sick to my stomach at the crap they sent me, including pictures of not only cows, pigs, etc. But they also included pictures and stories of cats and dogs and what they do with them in other countries. All I asked for was information on how to gradually change my diet from meat to vegetarian. PETA at one time was a very good organization. But they have since taken their cause to extremes.

When I was in CT, I was at a demonstration at a hearing for a woman and two men who abused, tortured and killed her roommate's cat for revenge. There were almost 150 people at the courthouse. We were abiding by the rules, staying behind the barracades. One of the defendants was walking out of the courthouse unescorted. A member of PETA came flying out of nowhere and assaulted this guy. One stupid woman made the whole crowd look like a bunch of lunatics.

So, PETA has left a bad taste in my mouth.