inside or out?? [Archive]

carole

04-05-2003, 03:11 AM

as i found out there is quite a debate on whether u should keep your cats indoors or both, as i mentioned here in nz its almost unheard of keeping cats indoors only except for show cats and breeders, in fact alot of people would consider it cruel to do so, however i know those who do keep them indoors may consider it cruel to let them out.
It is certainly quite different in our country to the big u.s. of A.
I can personally see benefits to both points of view, but yes my cats will be in and out, it has been a hard decision fo me to make with my new cat lexie, and i hope i dont live to regret it, but it is almost impractical to do otherwise in aoetearoa.
Its a personal thing, and at least inside they are away from many dangers, but i do worry about the danger of fire if kept inside permanently.
Anyhow i dont believe either of us are wrong to keep them indoors only or in and out, u must do what u want and think is right for your pet, we all love them dearly and do what we think is for the best cheers carole:)

PayItForward

04-05-2003, 04:27 AM

Both mine are inside/outside cats. (Well Milly will be when she has finished her shots)

Originally posted by Carole...as i mentioned here in nz its almost unheard of keeping cats indoors only except for show cats and breeders, in fact alot of people would consider it cruel to do so, however i know those who do keep them indoors may consider it cruel to let them out.

It's also an English thing too. Although the more I think about it, the safer inside cats must be. If George stays outside for hours (which he is doing with the nice weather) I do worry about him. But George doesn't go far just to the front or back garden, wherever the sun is, Milly will probually go further a field and could cross a road or two. (That's worrying)

George really enjoys the garden and Milly is acting like a POW as she can't leave the house for two more weeks (Not finished her shots yet) Milly runs to any open door and headbutts the cat flap trying to get outside. George was also very unhappy when we first adopted him and he had to stay inside for several weeks. But they were both strays used to being outside when we adopted them.

I don't think our inside/outside cats would be happy being indoors all the time.

Though if you kept them inside from being kittens, I bet they would be just as happy being indoors. (and taking outdoor walks on leases)

Soledad

04-05-2003, 05:42 AM

Good points Carole and PayItFoward! I'm in NZ now, and it is nearly unheard of to keep your cat indoors. It's seen as cruel and taking cats away from their natural habitat.

Having come from the States, I was alarmed that there were so many cats outside without collars. I thought they were strays, but Sam assured me that was simply the way things were done here. I even had a cat that followed me around university, which was excellent.:) I called her Buttercup and she often walked me to my religious studies classes. Since I lived across the street from uni, she spent a couple of nights and days with Sam and me. ;)

But now that Sam and I are moving back to the States, I will be making Boo an indoor only. We will have to see how leashing goes, as Boo is generally snippy and bitey with all things dangly. But I will not let him outside in the States because it is not a cat-loving country like NZ. I don't trust the number of crazy people that find torturing animals (especially cats) humourous and I know that because of the way US cities are developed, there is more harm traffic-wise.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I think in an ideal world, cats would thrive in an indoor/outdoor environment and be allowed to do so without the constant threat of being killed by crazies or cars. It's ideal for the cats in that they have adequate stimulation and exercise. The cats in the States are HUGE compared to the cats here.

jenluckenbach

04-05-2003, 06:04 AM

INDOOR ONLY
why?

cars
bad people
wildlife with rabies
strays with FIP, FeLV, FIV and other transmittable diseases
pesticides on peoples lawns
antifreeze and other automotive products
tick, fleas and other parasites with the possibility of even more disease
dogs
extremes in temperature
skunks
pollution (could get into poisons in people's garbage)
getting injured and not being able to make it home

need I go on?

Barbara

04-05-2003, 08:42 AM

One day I read a statistics that said cats in Germany that go out have an average lifespan of 2 years.

I live in a suburban neighborhood and most of our neighbors have outdoor cats. We have seen so many that died by a car accident or just vanished. There was even an article in the newspaper (in a very serious one) that black cats vanish and are stolen by satanists:eek: :mad:

So F+T are indoor only. They have a balcony with a net around and in summer when we have lots of flowers there I'll post some pictures of them on the balcony:)

neko1

04-05-2003, 08:42 AM

Indoor only- always have been and always will be

Anakins mom

04-05-2003, 08:46 AM

12 year old Naomi is allowed loose in the garden with me.
Ember & Mystery are allowed out in a harness on a flexi-leash.
Indy will be introduced to the harness and flexi this coming summer and Asia will have to wait until she is big enough for a harness.

No one is allowed out unattended. Coyotes, hawks, owls, fox and fishercats are a huge threat in my area.

bluekat

04-05-2003, 08:47 AM

RockyRoad

04-05-2003, 09:04 AM

Sally lives indoors ONLY, except if she is out on a walk with her harness on.
It would be hard to have a dog and cat, and have them go outside at different times. Plus, there are many dangers.
My friend has three cats, all outdoors. I am suprised she still keeps them outdoors because:
One got hit by a car
Two have gone to the hospital after getting in fights with other cats
One got stuck under the porch

And that's just the three they have. Their other kitten was killed by a car at a young age.

After hearing of all these accidents, I will never let my cats outdoors.
To add onto that, we live near the woods, and there are many thingsd that could be hazarous out there; ticks, diseases, possums, etc.

tikeyas_mom

04-05-2003, 11:17 AM

INDOORS ONLY- they do have shorter lives if they're outdoors all the time. There's a lot of dangers out there, cars, other animals, diseases, people.........and a lot of other things too. I'll never let mine go out without me there and tehm on a leash.

I dont agree the have shorter lives if kept outdoors and in :).. my cat is 11 years old and has been an outside cat his whole life. :)..

My street is a safe one though. lotsa other cats, my cat is the boss of the street though. My street has hardly any cars and ppl watch for cats and dogs, and mosty kids because that is mostly what runs our street lol.. the speed limit on my street is 20 km..

My kitty comes home every day to eat and sleep and when it is stormy out. He loves commi home to his nice confy bed after a fun days play :).. he just crashes with my mom and takes up all the covers lol.

veegan

04-05-2003, 11:59 AM

"Inside ONLY!!! I've lost to many cats as a kid to the traffic, and I don't want to loose any more !My house is large enough for playing!!"

EXACTLY the same thing here. When I was younger, and not really able to make any rules haha, my parents always wanted the cats indoor/outdoor, cause thats just how they always did it, and theres no litter box to clean, and they stay healthy with all the exercise, and they just love it outside, which is true. But! We've had 3 cats disapear, and 2 cats hit by a car, one killed, the other (Felicity) is still with us, THANKFULLY, but after a 5 hour surgery, and quite a few problems (she has an EXTREMELY sensitive digestive system, and throws up often, and her tail used to be held straight up, but now it kinda curls funny over her back). So once we moved into the house we are in now, 2 Novembers ago, we kept them indoor for a while, like we always do when we move, so they can get used to the new house and stuff, and not get lost when we let them outside again. So since we had to get a litterbox for that, I finally just decided/was able to con my parents into letting me, keep them indoor only. And even though we've had the number of loses we've had, my parents still think they should be indoor/outdoor... *sigh* Luckily Im in charge of the kitties now, and what I say goes with them! But our backyard is fully fenced, 6 feet, so I let them out (always supervised) as often as I can, cause they love to explore, and smell the smells. :) Felicity is declawed (also a decision I didnt make :mad: ) so I dont worry about her climbing out, and Felix is too skittish, so I know he'd never even want to leave our backyard. I dont think he ever did when he was an outdoor cat at our old house! Our backyard was huge there too so he didnt really need to leave it. lol

Anyhoo.. thats just my experience! The way I see it is its better safe than sorry. I mean, if you think its just not gonna happen to your cat, well, it IS highly possible! I mean, just look at how many of us on PT have had it happen to us! And we arent even the majority ya know? Tons of cats are killed by cars, disease, other animals, etc by being outdoor cats all over the world, its just a fact. I mean, is it even worth the chance??? This is your beloved kitty's life you're gambling with, ya know? They have outdoor enclousers you can buy for them, or you can build them yourself. You can get a cat door and have it lead out to the outdoor enclosure so they can still go potty outside, and play outside, but still be safe. I mean, its just not something that should be questioned, in my opinion anyway. :) :rolleyes:

But as I said, I have been in the situation where my parents were in charge and I didnt think I had any say. But back then I wasnt fully aware of the arguements for indoor only. No one was telling me, ya know? And I dont think I ever associated us losing 4 cats to them being outdoor! lol I guess I thought it was just they way things were, ya know? So, if any of you are in that situation, fight back! lol Tell your parents you dont think the life of your beloved pet is something worth gambling with, and please please can s/he stay indoors from now on?? :D And be sure to promise (and followthrough! lol!!) that you'll clean the litterbox. Because s/he's worth is right?!?! Thats what I thought! :D hehe

RubyMutt

04-05-2003, 11:59 AM

When my old kitty, Ichiro, came to live with us he was indoor/outdoor. He was a stray that just showed up at our house once and never left (we tried to find his home, but no one claimed him), but we were happy to have him :D (even though my mom is EXTREMELY alergic to cats). She was constantly taking alergy pills :rolleyes: But we just fell in love with the sweet kitty. Since he was so accoustomed to being outside we let him out whenever he pleased. Unfortunatly, after only 9 months of living with us he was hit by a car and killed just a few house down the street. And our street is NOT at all a busy road. :( It was very sad, I wish I would've kept him indoor, but he just loved going out so much... :( If I ever got another cat it would be indoor only.

tikeyas_mom

04-05-2003, 12:06 PM

I had a cat for about a day that was an indoor cat her name was Tiger she was Declawed, she couldent defend her self against my dog so we had to give her back to the previouse owners, it was sad :(..

shais_mom

04-05-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I dont agree the have shorter lives if kept outdoors and in :).. my cat is 11 years old and has been an outside cat his whole life. :)..

.

That is your opinion. Everything you read says that indoor kitties live longer lives. You and the people with older outdoor kitties are lucky. If you could bottle that and sell, you would make alot of money.

My Kylie is INDOORS, except for the occasionally sneaking outside with I am propping the door open to carry stuff in.

tikeyas_mom

04-05-2003, 01:21 PM

That is your opinion.

it has nothing to do with opinion. it is just fact.

rg_girlca

04-05-2003, 01:22 PM

Indoor only and will always be that way. I live on a second floor so they are allowed on the balcony with me when it is nice out, but they are never allowed downstairs. I've seen a few of my neighbors cats hit and killed by cars and thought, " Poor baby, if only you were kept inside". Then to see the City truck come by and just throw the cat in the back of their truck is just too heartbreaking.

My oldest brother's cat was an outdoor cat because he and his wife felt that it was natural for them to be outside. Their cat was hit and killed by a car when he was only 3 years old. They have another cat now and keep him indoors as they do not want to go through another traumatic experience like the first one.

Jenluckenbach, your list as to why your kitty should stay inside, is right on.

Denyce

04-05-2003, 05:26 PM

I agree with all that Jen posted as for reasons. I also have to add that it just plain isn't fair to your neighbors for your cats to be running loose outside. They often will use flower beds as litter boxes...can eat harmful outdoor plants, get into cat fights in the middle of the night or early morning or break the hearts of those of us who keep our cats indoors and are worrying if that cat is a stray or someone's pet that just seems to like your place better. Besides it breaks my heart everytime I see a dead cat on the road. It is bad enough having to deal with the dead wildlife. Why should those of us who care also have to deal with dead pets.

Denyce

Oh...my four are INDOORS ONLY except with close supervision and only 1 or 2 at a time.

Cookiebaker

04-05-2003, 05:37 PM

I feel guilty posting this after reading everybodies replies but Marigold is an inside/outside come & go as she wants to kind of kitty. When we first adopted her, we had in mind that she would be indoors only, and for the first 3 or 4 months she was content with that. However she soon became very antsy and it became obvious to us that she wanted to be free. She would sit at the window/doors and meow so pitifully, and even quit eating. Soon after that, she started peeing everywhere in the house. We had her vet-checked to make sure it was nothing medical, and we made the decision that she could come & go as she pleased. It has made a big difference in her personality, and she loves to run & play, and climb trees. She a happy little girl now, and I think that that's important, too.

tikeyas_mom

04-05-2003, 06:53 PM

I agree with all that Jen posted as for reasons. I also have to add that it just plain isn't fair to your neighbors for your cats to be running loose outside. They often will use flower beds as litter boxes...

You know what, that isnt a problem here, because we have a HUGE hill in the back like a mountain kinda, all the cats use that :). And noone cares if a cat was in their yard because everyone on our street owns at least one cat :).

NoahsMommy

04-05-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Nomilynn
My three are indoor ONLY, unless they are wearing a leash and I'm outside with them. It just isn't safe enough to let cats roam outside.
Exactly what I was going to say, but take out three and put in five for me. :)

carole

04-05-2003, 07:38 PM

to Jen and the others, your points are valid for keeping cats inside, i have no argument with that, but i just want to say we donot have rabies in nz, antifreeze does not appear to be a problem here and many of the other things u mentioned, of course u do run the risk of cat fights, traffic and the possibility of cruelty.
but as soledad has reinforced my points it is seen as cruel here in nz to take the cat out of its natural habitat.
Most people in general donot mind their gardens being used by the cats for litter boxes or shoo them away anyhow, i think in apartment buildings keeping a cat inside is practical even in nz.
But we have large sections alot of us fully fenced and not the kinda of traffic u have over there,
As i have said before nz is a very cat loving country, u get your monster people here too just the same, they are everywhere.
As for picking up diseases well i keep my cats vaccinated so the chances are not very high.
I am a very responsible cat owner , i want u all to be assured of that, and whether we differ on our opinions i respect your reasons to keep your pussycats indoors, if it works for you then great.
If i lived in usa i think i would have to rethink indoor outdoor from what u folks have said, kinda scares me to think its that bad there, your pussycats arent even safe.
However i c there are some indoor/outdoor cat owners there too, i am sure they have weighed up the pros and cons.
:)

veegan

04-06-2003, 04:26 AM

I tried to post this much earlier but my computer messed up! :O Anyhoo.. here it is..

"it has nothing to do with opinion. it is just fact."

maybe in your case it is a fact, but the truth is, the FACT is, statistics have proven, and the arguments on both sides also prove, that indoor cats are safer, and because of that have a longer life, and your cat has just been lucky. I was trying to find some specific statistics online, and I couldnt, but I found this very interesting article. It was written by a woman who originally felt outdoor was best for her cats, and depending on your situation, and your cats, outdoor vs. indoor is a personal decision. Which it really is, however you cannot deny the fact that there are a lot of risks involved in allowing your cat free rein outdoors. (And as I said in my previous post, *personally* I feel that no matter how small the risk may be, its not one worth taking when it comes to my pets). But anyhoo!! dont mean to preach.. :O And anyway, since one of her cats got FIV from being outdoor, she changed her opinion, and wrote a revised article. So, here it is!:

http://cats.about.com/library/weekly/aa102400a.htm

My favourite part of it was this:
"I don't believe in statements beginning with, "If you love your cat, you'll..." We humans feel different degrees of love for our cats and express our love in different ways, and my stance on the indoor-outdoor issue is not "proof" one way or another of loving my cat more than the next guy.

However, I do believe in personal responsibility for our decisions, and ultimately, our wrong decisions may cost us the loss of a very good friend and family member."

I just found another site listing pros and cons, and it has these statistics:
"Inside Cats:
have a life span of 12 - 20 years
Outside Cats:
have a life span of only 1 - 5 years"

I dont know where they got the lifespan statistics, but I assume they didnt make them up! lol

at this (http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/rhgiles/guidance/cats.htm) site I also found this:
Causes of rural cat mortality (Illinois, Warner 1985) were: Vehicles 37%
Disease 24
Humans 11
Dogs 10
Winter Storms 6
Machinery 4
Farm Chemicals 4
Livestock 1
"Old Age" 1

So anyhoo.. just wanted to share those

aly

04-06-2003, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
I dont agree the have shorter lives if kept outdoors and in :).. my cat is 11 years old and has been an outside cat his whole life. :)..

it has nothing to do with opinion. it is just fact.

I don't know why you think its a fact when there are statistics everywhere backing up that indoor only cats live longer.

Its no one's opinion that indoor only cats have longer lifespans, there have been studies to prove it true. Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, there always is. As Staci said, you are lucky that your cat is one of the exceptions.

(Whoops, sorry Veegan, I just said the same thing you already did. I'm tired and didn't read all the posts before i posted :o )

aly

04-06-2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by veegan

Causes of rural cat mortality (Illinois, Warner 1985) were: Vehicles 37%
Disease 24
Humans 11
Dogs 10
Winter Storms 6
Machinery 4
Farm Chemicals 4
Livestock 1
"Old Age" 1

All of those except old age could have been prevented :( I know accidents do happen, but simply keeping cats indoors would have prevented most all of those things.

BastetsMum

04-06-2003, 05:12 AM

Definately indoor ONLY!

This is because mainly of the reasons that Jen gave but also because the wildlife of Australia are being decimated by irresponsible cat (and dog) owners.

Bastet also has a full set of claws - declawing - except for severe cases of trauma to the feet - is banned in Australia - It is considered highly inhumane. I wonder if humans would like their first knuckle removed then have to walk on them....

She also goes outside only on a leash and only with me.

jenluckenbach

04-06-2003, 06:52 AM

My parents' last 2 indoor/outdoor cats show the extremes that can be found. The last cat they owned, Hamlet, lived to be 14 so being both inside AND out did him no harm. And except for the occasional dead bird or baby bunny, HE did no harm.
BUT!!!
Ernie actually killed the neighbor's PET pigeons before we realized that het was leaving the yard. AND he dissappeared with no trace after only 3 years. We do not even know what fate befell him.:(

Songlover

04-06-2003, 08:57 AM

WOW!! I see from the comments that there will never be a consensus of opinion here!! That is as it should be, but I vote for "indoor" only and my three TUX beauties seem to be very happy with that state of affairs.

It is true that the average outdoor cat lives an average of 2 years. As for indoor kitties, well, with all the advances in veterinary medicine and nourishment, they can live for 20 years or more. It seems like a "no brainer" to me, but I know that many people feel that a cat is not a "real cat" or living a "real cat's" life, if it does not feel the grass under its little padded feet. Those people are definitely entitled to their opinion, but I remain steadfast to my viewpoint which is strictly indoor.

Just my humble opinion from
Deborah in Montreal, proud owner of Prima (almost 16 years), Picasso, (6 years) and Piano (one year) :):rolleyes:

EnglishRider

04-06-2003, 11:12 AM

Growing up, my cats were always indoor/outdoor (whenever they pleased) but then again, we were always in suburbs or in the country. They lived to ripe old ages of 18, 16 and 13 (she's still alive). But once I moved out and got my own 2 cats, they are and always will be indoor kitties. They were born to be outdoor cats (born in a barn, lived there until 6-8 weeks old) but I have lived in an apartment and being on the 4th floor, going outside other than the balcony was not an option. Now that I have moved and am in a house, I don't let them out still because they've grown up not knowing the dangers outside, plus we don't really have a yard with 2 busy streets near and big dogs loose, I wouldn't dream of letting them out now.
I think its mostly personal preference and neither one of them are 'creul'... just like some people can't live in the confines of the city, some cats can't live strictly indoors (and vice versa).
I do think it's unsafe to raise a kitten indoors then later let them out, especially if it trusts everyone and other animals.
JMO
- Carole

shais_mom

04-06-2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
it has nothing to do with opinion. it is just fact.

wrong again.
As Aly and Veegan stated you and the others who have outdoor kitties are just lucky. My neighbors just lost a 12 year old indoor/outdoor cat to pneumonia. They were lucky but they lost 2 dogs to antifreeze under the age of 5.
The fact of the matter is as Veegan stated indoor cats live longer. I am not saying b/c your cat is outdoor or indoor/outdoor that you love them less, so don't go accusing me of that either.
My 12 year old cousin, has a dozen or so outdoor kitties and she loves them with all her little heart and if one of the kittens dies she holds it so it dies in her arms.
Whatever works for you. You aren't going to be able to acclimate him indoors now, and you certainly aren't going to take anyone's advice, which is par for the course.
This is apparently almost as hot of a topic as declawing, and people feel very very strongly about that, so please Don't start that topic just to start it.

carole

04-06-2003, 11:00 PM

thats a very interesting article you posted, we could go on and on about this debate.
It just is not practical here in nz, and is not done, thats my point, again its a personal decision and some people here also do choose the indoor option but its not common.
There are of course dangers, i agree and nz has them too, but we certainly donot have a lot of the ones jen mentioned.
I really find the statistics that indoor live a lot longer garbage, as i said i grew up on a farm and our cats lived to ripe old ages, and even the ones in town also, however its not always the case.
I am sorry if you differ with my opinion, but i cannot bear the thought of my cats never enjoying the beautiful days here in nz, amongst the trees in my garden, chasing butterflies etc, by the way i do keep my cats in at night, and i think that is where the real danger lies.
No one however has addressed my real concern if they are indoor and there is a fire how do they get out?
I know u will probably say the risk of that happening is far less than something outdoors and u are probably right, but it can and does happen.:)

jenluckenbach

04-07-2003, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by carole
.
No one however has addressed my real concern if they are indoor and there is a fire how do they get out?

Do you have a cat door that the cats can go in and out by themselves?
If yes) I hope they can find it in a fire
if no) then the problem STILL exists.

I worry about this, but I can't run my life thinking EVERYDAY that this is going to be the day they die in a fire. Fish, reptiles, amphibians, birds or small mammals that are kept as pets in cages and dogs and cats who do not have their own doors are also at risk.

I am glad that NZ is so safe, But we here in the USA just cannot understand what we have never seen.
And the statistics that show the life span differences will, of course, not apply to each and every cat who ever lived.

Just for the record, I do not get angry at those who choioe to let their cats outside (oh yea, until I see a dead cat on the road) I just feel sad for them.

batgirl1980

04-07-2003, 04:13 PM

My cats are and always will be ... INDOOR ONLY.
I totally agree with Jen's reasons..

I want my cats to live long, healthy, happy lives, and I feel the only way I can do this, is to keep them inside, and If I ever DO get the room to let them out, that would ONLY be considered with them on a leash and me RIGHT there watching where they sniff...

people are cruel, and I will do what I can to prevent their cruelty from coming to my babies.

There are too many more dangers outside to warrant me letting my babies go out there. They will just have to be happy with a screen window / screened in porch.

I used to live in the country and we had a barn, with barn cats that came with it... I don't think any but ONE was seen around more than 2 yrs max.. and the one that was seen, was because she got used to us, and we took her inside, where she happily adjusted to life as an indoor baby!

but its just my opinions on the matter.

batgirl1980

04-07-2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by carole
No one however has addressed my real concern if they are indoor and there is a fire how do they get out?
I know u will probably say the risk of that happening is far less than something outdoors and u are probably right, but it can and does happen.:)

It is something that CAN happen, but it could happen to yours when they are inside at night, just as much as it could happen to an indoor all the time kitty. So the risk still applies, for basically everyone with pets who are ever inside at some point without their own door.

I don't hate people who let their animals in and out, and I wish I could say I felt safe here to let my babies see butterflies.. one day they will, but it will be on a leash with mommy right by them.
I wish the US was as safe as you say NZ is, but unfortunately, it isn't. So we, as kitty meowmies, have to go by what we know our area is like and how safe it is for our babies.

I do , however, get sad and a little mad, just like Jen, when i see a cat dead on the side of the road, and I think "that cat could be alive if they were inside".

aly

04-07-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by batgirl1980
I do , however, get sad and a little mad, just like Jen, when i see a cat dead on the side of the road, and I think "that cat could be alive if they were inside".

Me too. I hate to see dead cats.. or dead anything on the road :( :( :(

Prairie Purrs

04-07-2003, 04:46 PM

Mine are all indoor kitties--I rescued them from outside. I live on a busy street corner and it's just not safe out there.

Besides, if I had a cat door I'd end up with about 20 more cats living inside! I'm always finding my cats conversing through a closed window with a stray or feral. It's seldom the same kitty twice--there are so many homeless cats around, which breaks my heart. Angel (who never met a cat he didn't like) would invite every one of them in to play!

Pam

04-07-2003, 05:51 PM

INDOOR ONLY! I love them too much to risk losing them to anything!

popcornbird

04-07-2003, 06:58 PM

If I had a cat, it would most DEFINITELY be indoor only, for obviously all the reasons you all stated, however, I don't know if outdoor cats living just 2 years is true. My cousin's cat in England was an indoor/outdoor cat. She live a long, happy, and healthy life of 18 years, when she eventually got severe cancer and was put to sleep. Another one of my cousins in England has an indoor/outdoor cat who is currently 12 years old and has never had anything happen to her in the outdoors. I know that there are many dangers outside, but even my neighbors' cats are indoor/outdoor, and those that are in their teens are still alive and healthy. I have never once seen a dead cat on the road. That would be awful. The main reason I would keep my cat inside if I had one is because of fear of "evil" humans and kittynapping. I would never trust the outside world with my pet, but I know people do, and their cats survive.

tikeyas_mom

04-07-2003, 07:19 PM

Pam posted: INDOOR ONLY! I love them too much to risk losing them to anything!

I love my kitty alot to and he's an out door cat.

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 07:34 PM

Re: Fire
I know people that practice having fire drills. It may sound wierd, but my cats are like children and I wouldn't leave a burning house without them, ever!

We live in a large apartment complex and I can't tell you how many cats are outdoors here. I also can't even tell you how many "lost or missing cat" signs I see. :( Its just idiotic...we are surrounded by a BUSY street and a wash (where water runs towards the ocean) where I've seen coyotes. People are also little speed racers around here. I want to steal all those cats and take them inside. Its cruel to leave them out in our area. :mad:

I've heard the arguement that cats are missing out by being indoor cats. That may be true if cats were able to live in something like the zoo, protected and given food to "stalk".

I speak only for places I've been. I don't know anything about NZ when it comes to cats. It does sound safer to me though. Less development and more cat loving people. :)

EnglishRider

04-07-2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
Re: Fire
I know people that practice having fire drills. It may sound wierd, but my cats are like children and I wouldn't leave a burning house without them, ever!

I doubt that this will help at all in a real emergency, but both of my cats know to come to me when the smoke detector goes off. It just started when our oven got too dirty and broiling chicken = a little smoke and the alarm going off... both ran to me (dunno why really, lol). So every once in a while I set the alarm off and get tuna so if they come to me, they get a treat. Alarm = treat. It comforts me that I'm doing something in regards to a fire emergency, and I know the cats won't run and hide at the noise. Of course add smoke and flames to it, the "trick" won't be much good, but its better than doing nothing.
- Carole

batgirl1980

04-07-2003, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by EnglishRider
I doubt that this will help at all in a real emergency, but both of my cats know to come to me when the smoke detector goes off. It just started when our oven got too dirty and broiling chicken = a little smoke and the alarm going off... both ran to me (dunno why really, lol). So every once in a while I set the alarm off and get tuna so if they come to me, they get a treat. Alarm = treat. It comforts me that I'm doing something in regards to a fire emergency, and I know the cats won't run and hide at the noise. Of course add smoke and flames to it, the "trick" won't be much good, but its better than doing nothing.
- Carole

really??? now THAT is a cool idea... maybe I should start trying that with my babies.. at least to get them to not be scared of the noise.. (of course do the drill when the neighbors aren't home LOL).. Thanks for the great idea! Because I won't leave without them in a fire (or whatever disaster).. and if I could get them unscared of the sound at least.. that might help if, God Forbid, something should happen!

tikeyas_mom

04-07-2003, 08:02 PM

I also can't even tell you how many "lost or missing cat" signs I see. Its just idiotic

that is sad. If I lived there my kitty would be a inside cat aswell. I dont blame you one bit. :). here is is quiet I never see missing cat posters. It is a nice road with cars going 20 km and they watch for animals and kids because thats all my road consists of. lol

Soledad

04-07-2003, 08:20 PM

I am asking this out of genuine curiosity, but I find it odd to keep 5+ cats indoors in one house/apartment. That seems unfair to me.

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Soledad
I am asking this out of genuine curiosity, but I find it odd to keep 5+ cats indoors in one house/apartment. That seems unfair to me. The only ones that even want out are Noel and Olivia....and that's the balcony. I've tried taking Noel outside on her harness and she was terrified. :(

Basie, Noah and Micah HATE when I even open the front door!

It isn't cruel or odd if they've never been outside before, other than the balcony.

I can see the problems that would arise if you rescued a cat that was accustomed to being outside, but its not fair to force them out if they've been used to living a safe, happy life indoors.

Besides, if my cats where outdoors, they would be dead and/or in cat fights every day. I don't see how that could make a cat "happy" to be outside....

Life is different here...

carole

04-07-2003, 08:31 PM

thanks for your reply jen, nz is a obviously a lot safer than the large us of a, but there ares till dangers too, thanks for addressing the fire thing, i guess you are right, caged animals have the same risks, as i said i am sure you have decided outdoors poses more of a risk for them.
I am certainly not for or against indoor only cats, i think what works best for you is the way to look at it.
I do strongly advise those with indoor/outdoor cats to try and keep them in at night, that to me is the most dangerous period for them.
Both my cats tend to stay around the section most of the day, they may wander to the neighbours now and then, but not too often, the neighbours have lovely treed sections, with lots of interesting things for them to c and enjoy.
Ash ususally suns himself on the verandah or outdoor set all day, and sometimes on the carport roof, Lexie runs up and down the tree, explores the section and stays with me most of the day, she is sleeping on the couch right now, as much as she would love to be out at night she is NOT allowed. Ash is a bit more sneaky and i have to really practice tough love to keep in at nights.
Anti freeze is a real problem in usa it seems, we dont need to use the stuff here much, as we dont have very cold winters.
Yes i am thankful each day that nz is so safe in comparison and that most people love cats.
I wish it could be the same for everyone.
They used to call it Godzone here once, but believe me things have changed here too and its not as great as all that.
I am glad soledad has been able to back up what i have been saying, also she is an american with a different outlook than mine, but she also agrees with me, that its just the way things are here, outdoor /indoor is the norm.
Well folks we have probably exhausted this subject somewhat, it kinda only started as i was asking when i should let lexie out, of course i never expected that there would be any oppositon to me doing this, as its normal here.
Just in closing i respect everyones opinions and i know everyone loves their kitties and does what they consider is best for them. There is no right or wrong way here in my opinion. By the way statistics wise they were saying indoor live longer than outdoor/indoor, well that is in america, obviously it does not apply here as we are mostly outdoor/indoor.
Yes traffic does pose the biggest threat to the cats i think, oh and by the way we dont have wild dogs either i mean such as coyotes, i was reading someone lost cat that way. but stray dogs always pose a threat, i always keep my gates closed to help prevent a stray dog roaming on the section and maybe attacking my cats, however they do have many safe outdoor places no dog can get. Also we dont have hand guns here, i believe your gun laws are very different than ours, and it would be easy to have one and shoot a cat that annoys u, not so here, our police are not even armed as such., we do have special branches of police, armed offenders squad etc, but not the rest.:)

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Soledad
I am asking this out of genuine curiosity, but I find it odd to keep 5+ cats indoors in one house/apartment. That seems unfair to me.
I'm back.....what's the difference between having 1 cat indoors or 100????

Is four an "OK" number to have indoor only??

Soledad

04-07-2003, 08:36 PM

I was mostly referring to confined space, etc.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I am just curious because it seems very odd to me, just me.

I didn't get offended when everyone assumed if you had an indoor/outdoor cat that you didn't love them or didn't care as much about their safety. :(

carole

04-07-2003, 08:37 PM

just one more thing, i meant to say if your cat has never known anything but indoors, then it is going to be happy that way,it knows no different, on the other hand if its always been indoor/outdoor its going to be tough on the cat and u to change, i am sure soledad will beable to tell us how it goes with boo, as he will become an indoor only cat from now on. By the way soledad i was curious how come boo does not need to go into quarantine, is that because he has been living in lovely nz for so long te he lol. no seriously would love to know.
And Jen i have never taken any of your comments as to be offending in any way, i respect your opinion, and i realise you were not having a go at people who keep their cats as indoor/outdoor cats, but merely expressing your opinion as i have cheers everyone and have a great day:)

Soledad

04-07-2003, 08:39 PM

Boo does not have to be quarantined because there is no rabies in NZ. He just has to undergo a medical check at the airport.

carole

04-07-2003, 08:43 PM

thanks for the quick reply, thats right folks No Rabies on new zealand, also soledad i wondered about some of the diseases people have been talking about that if they let their cats out they would risk being infected, i only know that the vaccination i get is all i am told i need for the cats once per year and they are safe, does america have other disease we donot, u can help me out on that.
Would you not also agree that alot of people live in apartments in usa with their cats, whereas in nz its not really the case, of course we have apartment buildings, but most people own their own homes and have sections here, if i had an apartment there is no way i would let my cat out either.cheers

Soledad

04-07-2003, 08:45 PM

I realise there are things outside that can make your cat sick, but aren't there just as many indoors?

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Soledad
I was mostly referring to confined space, etc.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I am just curious because it seems very odd to me, just me.

I wasn't offended at your question, I just wondered why you chose "5+".

Many people here have larger homes or apartments. Our apartment is 1000 sq. ft. PLENTY of room for the cats...even more so when they all are in different rooms. :)

Carole and Soledad,
There are many diseases cats can catch outdoors. We have our cats vaccinated for feline infectious peritonitis (FIP); feline leukemia virus (FeLV) infection; giardia; and herpes virus infection and rabies yearly...

There aren't many things they can catch indoors, which is why a lot of vets don't recommend all those vaccinations every year for indoor cats. They CAN catch fleas or anything infectious that another indoor cat may already have.

carole

04-07-2003, 08:59 PM

i have both my cats vaccinated yearly for those disease, except rabies as nz does not have them, so i think they are pretty safe personally, in that respect, they are both showered with heaps of love ,attention, have the best flea treatment money can buy, good food, etc, which is more than they would have had, as both were strays confined to a life of none of the above, except lexie was well taken care of at the cats league, but she now has a real home with tons of affection, i am hoping get pics of her soon.
Now to change the subject i would like to know how often do you change your kitties litter boxes, once per day, every second day, once per week or what?

Soledad

04-07-2003, 09:01 PM

Well, I was just pulling a number out.

I know you love your cats and you take very good care of them. I am relatively new to cats, and based on my experience, Boo needs lots of room to run and tear around. I can't imagine four more around in our place.

I was really hoping I could get educated on this, which is why I asked.:rolleyes:

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by carole
Now to change the subject i would like to know how often do you change your kitties litter boxes, once per day, every second day, once per week or what?
In our house, we have five large litter boxes that we change every day. :)

Songlover

04-07-2003, 09:12 PM

Dear Noah's Mommy,

Do you mean change COMPLETELY every day, or do you mean "scoop the poop" every day?? If you are changing the litter every day, then I must be a very, very BAD MEOWMIE!!!! Regards from Deborah in Montreal:eek: :o

shais_mom

04-07-2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
I wasn't offended at your question, I just wondered why you chose "5+".

Many people here have larger homes or apartments. Our apartment is 1000 sq. ft. PLENTY of room for the cats...even more so when they all are in different rooms. :)

Well, Kelly isn't the only one that has 5+. Cataholic, moosmom, marysmerrycats, jenluckenbach just off the top of my head.

I have a big dog and a big cat in a 650+ sq foot house, does that make me odd?

veegan

04-07-2003, 10:15 PM

I just have one litter box for my 2 kitties, and I use clumping litter, and scoop the stuff out as I see it. It is in my room, so that not only makes it easy to keep up with, but it also helps keep me cleaning it often because I cant stand the smell lol! And then I clean all the litter out whenever the litter is really dirty or low. :)

Soledad

04-07-2003, 10:19 PM

No it doesn't make YOU odd. But don't be offended if I find it odd because I've never had any experience with it.

This was NOT intended as a personal attack on ANYONE. If you could take the time to explain to me how it works with having so many animals in one house, I would appreciate it.:rolleyes:

shais_mom

04-07-2003, 10:46 PM

Soledad,
I have a 4 room house. Very tiny.
Keegan is in her crate when I am not there, so she doesn't bother Kylie who is out and about.
If Kylie needs a break, she goes under the bed, or I have a kitty entrance in my closet. She goes in there and basically has her own room.
Whenever she gets stressed from Keegan she goes in the closet.
She isn't very active, so she doesn't zip around much. She sometimes does at night, so that is pretty much her activity.
Keegan, is still a puppy, I have a park 2 min behind my house. Sometimes I try to take her there when it is nice to chase a tennis ball, or I make sure I take her to my parents 3 acres at least once a week.
Now Shaianne, my RB greyhound, was another story.
She rarely bothered the cat. And she was a couch potatoe so she didn't need alot of activity. I never took her anywhere to run loose b/c I couldn't find any fenced in areas. She got her exercise when she escaped! :eek:
Does this help at all?? :)

wolf_Q

04-07-2003, 11:10 PM

I guess as I don't have a cat and never have, I don't really have any business replying to this thread. Oh well.

I'm sorry, not to offend anyone, but I cannot even *imagine* having a beloved pet wandering the streets. I guess I'm very overprotective but I would *never* allow any of my pets to be running freely outside without supervision. I feel comforted knowing where my pets are, and what is happening to them.

Almost everyone around me has outside cats. As much as I love cats, I don't appreciate cats pooping in my yard. My dog tries to eat it, lol, and that's not very enjoyable to dig out of his mouth (nor to step in). Real fun when planting your garden too.

I've watched the neighbors outside cats slowly die off. And I don't live on a busy street either, it's basically a dead end. Just the neighbors across my street for example...they've had an orange tabby, 2 black kittens, and a brown tabby. They still have one black cat..the rest lived less then a year before being killed.

My friend has an outside cat that's at least 9 years old. I'm amazed he's lived that long. He's always covered in scratches from fights. He'll disappear for days at a time. When he was in the house (before they moved) he was a very sweet cat...now he's turned a bit wild.

Sorry, I should stop now. I'm not at all saying that any of you that have outside cats don't love them, and it definitely depends on where you live. But from my personal experience, if I ever did get a cat, it would be inside only.

carole

04-07-2003, 11:27 PM

i think we shall have to agree to disagree, u are entitled to your opinion, u cant imagine ever letting your pets out, here in nz we cannot imagine not. different cultures, different country.

NoahsMommy

04-07-2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Songlover
Dear Noah's Mommy,

Do you mean change COMPLETELY every day, or do you mean "scoop the poop" every day?? If you are changing the litter every day, then I must be a very, very BAD MEOWMIE!!!! Regards from Deborah in Montreal:eek: :o

hee hee.....we scoop every day. :)

aly

04-08-2003, 12:47 AM

I don't understand how you think cats can catch just as many diseases inside as outside :confused: :confused: I don't know about you, but I don't have dozens of stray cats walking through my house every day. So since Shiloh is inside, she is never exposed to strange cats, therefore she can't catch anything. If she went outside, I would have no clue which cat's feces she'd be walking in and what she'd catch.

And vaccinations aren't 100% effective.

Miss Meow

04-08-2003, 01:04 AM

Ours live inside. Mini and Jasmine were allowed out in the courtyard at the last house (under supervision), but the fences at this house aren't as secure. I don't want to even risk the cars, dogs, cat haters, council rangers etc. They adapted pretty quickly to living inside again, cats are adaptable creatures.

We got them the outdoor playpen, which they adore. I'll start another thread about it like I promised last week :rolleyes:

Soledad

04-08-2003, 01:54 AM

Sorry to confuse you, Aly. I knew I didn't word that right. I wasn't referring to diseases, but chemicals. Someone mentioned anti-freeze being an outdoor hazard.

I need to hear about this outdoor playpen!!!

jenluckenbach

04-08-2003, 05:45 AM

Soledad, I had 6 cats in a one bedroom apt. and it was not crowded. The rooms lined up from the front of the house to the rear (It was a divided twin home) and they would get up any speed they wanted by running back and forth. They also had the ability to use the vertical space, so to them, the apt. was even bigger than it was to the humans.

Songlover

04-08-2003, 08:28 AM

Dear Noah's Mommy, I feel better now that I know you scoop every day, not change the litter completely every day!!! WOW! I was worried...LOL! I also scoop every day. Just wondering, though, how often do you change the litter completely? I have 3 cats and two litter boxes. I change it about every three weeks. Does this make me a bad Meowmie? :D :o :rolleyes:

Deborah, Meowmie of Prima, Picasso and Piano

ramanth

04-08-2003, 10:04 AM

I have mixed feelings on this. I don't see a problem with keeping a cat indoors only and I also don't see a problem with having a cat being indoor/outdoor, depending on the neighborhood. Living in the city vs the country makes all the difference.

What I can't imagine is why someone would make a cat stay outdoors all the time though.

The cats at my parents house are indoor/outdoor. My parents live out in the country and there is not a lot of traffic. Our first cat, Sable, lived to be roughly 15 and he could make a grown dog wet itself. He guarded his territory viciously, but was one of the most loving and loyal cats I had ever known. He was about 8 when he adopted our family from a life as a stray.

Mom has horrible allergies and asthma. Even with all the medications in the world, letting the cats go outside for a few hours helps her breathe.

Our boys are big and healthy and those that are getting up in their age spend more time indoors than out.

aly

04-08-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Soledad
Sorry to confuse you, Aly. I knew I didn't word that right. I wasn't referring to diseases, but chemicals. Someone mentioned anti-freeze being an outdoor hazard.

I need to hear about this outdoor playpen!!!

I shoulda kept my mouth shut until morning because I always misunderstand things late at night! Can I blame it on getting no sleep because of my foster baby? :D

NoahsMommy

04-08-2003, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Songlover
Dear Noah's Mommy, I feel better now that I know you scoop every day, not change the litter completely every day!!! WOW! I was worried...LOL! I also scoop every day. Just wondering, though, how often do you change the litter completely? I have 3 cats and two litter boxes. I change it about every three weeks. Does this make me a bad Meowmie? :D :o :rolleyes:

Deborah, Meowmie of Prima, Picasso and Piano
We've been changing out the litter about every three weeks as well. :) I always add fresh litter to the boxes if they get low as well.

carole

04-08-2003, 09:32 PM

thank you for answering my question about the litter boxes, because this is new to me, i wanted to make sure i was changing it enough, i of course get rid of the pooh every minute she does one,and i top it up every time she uses it, but i completely change the whole thing once a week, is that ok, your advice is much appreciated

carole

04-08-2003, 10:12 PM

just one last comment on this indoor/outdoor debate, so folks are your all telling me that your homes are air conditoned, if not how do you keep your cats from suffocating in the heat and yourselves, whilst you are not home and home, i would love to hear your answers, as i have pointed out most nz homes are not air conditioned, not even the expensive ones.

kimlovescats

04-08-2003, 10:49 PM

I'm just now getting in on this .... but I'll make it short and sweet!
;)

My kitties are all indoors only.... but my loving husband helped me add a special topper to our privacy fence.... so that they can go outside for fresh air, grass and sunning. Although they've never gotten over the topper, I still stay outside with them, or keep a close watchful eye through the windows at all times.

I know we all love our pets here, and it's not fair to insinuate that one loves theirs more than another. I agree that cats do love to be outdoors, and I believe that God intended them to be!!! HOWEVER, because man has made this world unsafe for all of its inhabitants.... kitties, dogs, etc.... pets have to depend on responsible humans to keep them safe from harm. It's sad but true!:(

I will attach a picture of our privacy fence with topper.

Kim

carole

04-09-2003, 03:16 PM

i completely agree with you kim, its what suits you and your circumstances whats best for your kitty,their are pluses and minuses in both situations,but its been an interesting debate, and it seems indoors is preferred in the united states, whereas its the opposite here in aoetearoa.
:)

carole

04-09-2003, 03:19 PM

one more thing, if its so unsafe for kitties in usa, does that mean its even worse for your children, i shudder at the thought, here in nz children walk to school by themselves, however i donot let my daughter , i always take her or arrange something else, i am again just curious on your comments, a little away from the orginal subject, but what have you all to say. cheers

batgirl1980

04-09-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by carole
one more thing, if its so unsafe for kitties in usa, does that mean its even worse for your children, i shudder at the thought, here in nz children walk to school by themselves, however i donot let my daughter , i always take her or arrange something else, i am again just curious on your comments, a little away from the orginal subject, but what have you all to say. cheers

I don't have children yet.. but I would not let them out of my site for a moment. There are too many sicko's out there that would love a chance to kidnap or what not a child, and there is no way I would let my child walk to school, or ANYWHERE by him/herself. When I become a mom in the far off future, I think I will be labeled "over protective" because I will always know where he/she is and be right there or make sure another parent is at all times...

As for your air conditioning question:
My apartment is air conditioned.. the problem is.. i'm allergic to it if it's on too much (I get bronchitis from it).. so we turn it on for a little bit, then open the windows and turn on our fans...and also make sure kitty water is ALWAYS full... which seems to keep them happy.

NoahsMommy

04-09-2003, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by carole
just one last comment on this indoor/outdoor debate, so folks are your all telling me that your homes are air conditoned, if not how do you keep your cats from suffocating in the heat and yourselves, whilst you are not home and home, i would love to hear your answers, as i have pointed out most nz homes are not air conditioned, not even the expensive ones.
Yep....most places that get hot have air condition. We mainly use it for the cats during the summer. I close all but one of the shades (so they can look at the birds outside) and turn the air down. :)

Our long-haired boy, Noah, gets haircuts in the spring and summer as well. Just to make sure he's cool and comfy. :)

NoahsMommy

04-09-2003, 09:16 PM