Mom says no to spay/neuter

[petsbestern]

I just got my new bunny today. :D I believe he's a boy. He's 4 months old and I got him from a friend who's bunnies had babies. (My bun's their son) I asked my mom about neutering him, and she got mad and said NO WAY! She's not even letting us spay my kitty. Its not because of vet bills. We take our pets to the vet ALL the time, and they are all in great health. Her reason is that its cruel, un-natural, mean, and wrong to remove a part of an animal's body for whatever reason. She said she could NEVER have something like this done to any of our beloved pets.

I talked to her about the population problem, and she said human children in many parts of the world are also homeless and dying. She said that does not mean humans should start spaying and nuetering their kids does it? :rolleyes: She said if there's a population problem in animals in that many are put down, human kids are homeless and dying too....................thousands and thousands of them. She said that all animals have the instincts to care for themselves, and if some animals remain without a home, they can protect themselves in the wild. She said they can learn to protect themselves like squirrels, birds, and other wild animals do. When I told her it can reduce future health risks, she said that God created them with those parts, and their own natural parts cannot be a health risk because we have them too. SHe said that when cancer happens it happens. That doesn't mean you remove parts of the body before hand. She said that God gave them those parts and that humans have no right to remove them and alter their pets. When I asked her about my kitty going into heat and causing trouble, she said, "We adopted that cat, we love her, we will bear with her with however she behaves. We're not going to remove her body parts just so she doesn't act like a cat's supposed to act." She said that our cat and bunny are single and indoor, so its impossible for them to get kids and add to the population, and she said that if an animal has the desire to have a child, its cruelty to remove their body parts so they can't. She said, "How would we humans feel if our pets decided to remove our organs so we couldn't have kids when we really wanted kids?" My mom thinks spaying/nuetering is the most cruel thing one can do to their pets. She said its equal to declawing. She said its plain wrong and she doesn't care if people do it or if vets encourage it. She said "I love my animals and will NEVER allow such a thing to happen to them." My dad agrees. I'm starting to believe my mom too. She convinced me in a very nice way. I'm not so sure though. But anyway, its been decided that our bunny and cat are not going to be spayed/nuetered. My mom would hear none of it. She almost started crying when I mentioned it! :eek: She said she could never do such a thing. She said they were created with those organs and we have no right to remove them, period. What should I do?

We took my bun to the vet to have him checked after getting him, and he's in perfect health. :)

Please don't blow up on me or start yelling. My parents rule the house, and these are their rules. I have to abide by them as their child. I'm kind of happy though because I won't have to go through the pains of leaving them at the vet, being full of fear and anxiety the whole day. I just can't handle that, especially if I know a part of them is being removed! :eek:

[aly]

First I'd like to say that no one is going to blow up on you I'm pretty sure. Your mom's heart is in the right place and it sounds like she's so very loving and caring. However, I stand firmly that the best thing to do is fixing them. I am going to have to do some thinking on how to convince her of that though. I will post some advice if I think of any. In the meantime, give your mom a hug for having such a heart.

[Soledad]

I can see where she's coming from, but I don't agree. Let's just hope she's okay with you taking extra precaution from letting the animals mate and if not, is very determined to get the reprecussions great homes! :)

[All Creatures Great And Small]

Well, since there seems to be no chance that the bunny could get loose outside and mate, then there is probably no harm in leaving him intact. I have no experience with bunnies, so I don't know if there will be behavioral problems associated with him still having natural urges. I worry about the cat being left intact though, since there is a good chance it could slip outside. I do know that leaving cats intact will result in male spraying/marking in the house, and females coming into heat and yowling. Good thing the kitty is female, because I can assure you, your mom wouldn't want to "bear with" the stench of male cat spray, which ruins anything in your home that it lands on - we had things in our basement that still stunk YEARS after the cat had sprayed on them! Your mom's theory has a few holes - leaving pets in their "natural" state, with the desire to reproduce, but unnaturally restricting them from doing so (by keeping them in a human home) creates stress on the pet. No offense, but ask your mom how she would feel if your dad lived on the other side of a window and she could see him but couldn't ever get near him. Spaying/neutering is one of the consequences of adapting animals to be pets and live with humans instead of their own kind. If we wanted animals to live 100% naturally, then we wouldn't bring them into our homes and make pets of them. Also, domesticated animals who accidentally are set "free" do NOT have the natural defenses that wild animals do, because it has been domesticated out of them, and they will NOT adapt beautifully to suddenly becoming wild.

As far as spaying and neutering humans - I believe in that too! I was "spayed" after having my first and only "litter". ;) :p Since we can't communicate with animals, how do we know they want to stay intact? Maybe the kitty would want to be spayed, like I did, but can't ask. If people all over the world are homeless and starving, wouldn't it be more humane if they didn't have to reproduce, and try to feed children that they don't have the resources for? Natural isn't always right, because both man and animals have become more civilized and domesticated. That's why man has come up with so many wonderful ways to improve upon nature, and I'm glad for all the miracles of medicine and surgery.

[Ann]

I am totally split when it comes to neutering:

I can see how important it is for homeless animals and I've seen it first hand how bad it can be thanks to all the strays I've seen and the condition of my uncle's girlfriend's animals.

But then I hate myself for neutering Oliver and spaying Titti because that means I cannot have kittens from either of them. When Titti passed all I wanted was to have a part of her left as a kitty, and I don't know how I will deal when it's Oliver's time...

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by All Creatures Great And Small
I have no experience with bunnies, so I don't know if there will be behavioral problems associated with him still having natural urges.

Yes! There are! Male bunnies spray too and neutering them helps reduce odor as well as the bad habit! He will be calmer, less bitey/nippy, less chewy and all around happier!

[iceyshiver21]

No one is going to yell, at you for somthing that you parents said and you asked what more you could you do?? I respect your mom, she has good points. I agree with some of her reasons. But I dont agree with-

She said they can learn to protect themselves like squirrels, birds, and other wild animals do.

I belive that What you tame is your own creation, you must care for it to bring it the best life. Wild cats and dogs can spread dieses, and things such as heartworm(my vet says). Which I was is a what we are trying to get rid of.


I talked to her about the population problem, and she said human children in many parts of the world are also homeless and dying. She said that does not mean humans should start spaying and nuetering their kids does it?

But people can fend for them selves without haveing to live rely something else. (example: Feral Cats have to dogde dogs, cars, mean people, ect)

*****Since your you only have a cat and a bunny, and they are inside pets, I do not belive that you have to get your pets spayed or neutered. Ive never even thought to get my bunnies neutered. The females are always seperated from the males.
My cats though Im alittle more worried about. My aunts cat got cancer from not being spayed and I would hate to lose Blueberry to the same fate, when she doesnt have too.

*********Plus some Women do get "Spayed" so to say.

[COCatMama]

I had a boy bunny for 6 years and I didn't find out you could even neuter a bunny until it was way, way too late. An unneutered bun's urine is horrid smelling.

I wonder what your mom is going to be saying when your female kitty goes into heat at 3 am and yowls all night :eek:

[tatsxxx11]

No, we don't "spay and neuter" humans. But humans can make the independent, intellectual, informed decision to stop having children if they choose or choose not to have any at all. And, both men and women can and DO opt to have elective surgery to prevent further pregnancies. It goes without saying that birth control is practiced by millions of men and women every day. Unfortunately, animals do not have the ability to make these choices on their own. Even with the current push to spay and neuter all domesticated pets, because of indiscriminate or unintentional breeding, MILLIONS of animals are left homeless to suffer and even more are euthanized EVERY year. THAT is cruelty!!

And without question, non-neutered, non-spayed pets are prone to many, many more serious health conditions than those that are spayed/neutered. Male dogs can develop testicular cancer. Female dogs that are not bred and left unspayed, are 50% more likely to develop breast cancer and pyometria, a potentially fatal infection of the uterus! My first rescued Lab Jingles almost died from pyometria. She was adopted unspayed at age 2 1/2 and became ill 2 weeks before the planned surgery. Thankfully, she survived but was VERY ill.

You sound like a wonderfully responsible and caring pet guardian and I'm sure your Mom means well. And of course, the decision is NOT in your hands. I hope that you will continue to discuss this with your Mom (perhaps the vet can discuss it with her too) and hopefullly, change her mind! At least, I hope she/you take all precautions to make certain that your bunny is kept separated from any unspayed females!;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Anthropomorphism - giving to animals human traits....

Humans have the ability to reason and control the sexual urge (they may not always do so, but the ability is there!) Animals act strictly on instinct. No cat, or bunny, or dog every thought..."Is this a good time to reproduce? Is this who I should reproduce with? Will he/she be a good parent? Will I be a good parent?" Their bodies say "have Sex" and they respond -- by having unprotected sex.

Humans (and dolphins) derive pleasure from sex. Other animals do not. For example the penis of a male cat has barbs on it to help maintain contact -- candlelight and romance it isn't! It is instinct -- pure and simple. A female cat in heat will mate with as many tom as she can find. One litter can have kittens from two or more toms.

We -- humans -- domesticated cats, dogs, bunnies (cows, pigs, sheep, and horses!) Now we have a responsibility to them. It is NOT a responsibility of equals -- it is a responsibility of protector, care giver -- and that includes protecting them from irresponsible breeding and the hazards of life in the wild.

Take a visit to a shelter that isn't "no-kill." Help out with some euthanasias. Maybe that will help with an understanding of the consequences of not nuetering!

[boscibo]

I'm not going to yell, it sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place.

I have a different take on it. I am very sensitive to my animals' needs, and I think not spaying or neutering is crueler than doing it. Leaving an animal intact to experience going through a heat is very unpleasant for them- especially if the animal can't breed and relieve the discomfort. When an animal is in heat, all they think about is breeding, and I think it is very cruel to make them go through that and suffer.

When I got Abby she was in heat and it was pure torture to watch her go through it until I could bring her in to get spayed. Cats will stay in heat a long time, and they are very loud and demanding during that time. I didn't get a full night's sleep until she had been spayed. After the surgery, she became the nicest, loving pet. So that is my opinion.

[Karen]

Tell your mom that your bunny is not a wild rabbit, and that he is not equipped to survive in the wild. He will be more unhappy because he will have a strong biological urge to reproduce, but no way to do it. Is it not worse for him to be emotionally frustrated than neutered?

We know you will love him and I am not posting this to upset you. But that's just something for her to think about.

Go to http://rabbit.org if you need more info. Not trying to cause trouble, just want her to have all the facts.

[popcornbird]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

You can spay/neuter humans?!?! :eek: OMG! I never knew that!
Don't tell me you can spay neuter birdies too! I would never do that to my feathered kids. They are much to delicate. :p

I guess I don't know what to say. Your mom's answers left me speechless. I know its encouraged and stuff, but I'm not exactly "for" removing parts of an animal's body. I don't know. My mind just doesn't agree with it. I highly doubt my parents would allow it if I had a kitty or a bunny, and I don't know if I "would" do it myself. It would require a lot of thinking for me. The spraying of a male can definitely be a cause of problem. I would rather get an already fixed animal than have it done myself. It just scares me. :) None of my cousin's cats are fixed, but they are indoor/outdoor cats so who knows what they do out there. Their male hasn't sprayed inside before though. :confused: I know that in some other countries, NO ONE spays/neuters animals, so if you go on the streets, be prepared to meet dozens of stray kitties going about their business. Its pretty cool though, in the way that, when I go to visit family in Pakistan, I get to pet tons of kitties when we go out. :) They are all very friendly, but there ARE too many on the streets, and the pet ones aren't usually fixed either.

[aly]

Well said Sandra!!!!

Edwina's Secretary - I was going to bring up anthropomorphism too. Guess it was too late and I forgot :)

petsbestern - maybe you could print off some of these replies to try to convince your mom. I know you will not want your babies to have to go to the vet and go through surgery - none of us do! I was a crying mess when mine got done. But I know its for the best and I would *never* have an unfixed animal (well, except my fishies :D ).

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by aly
Well said Sandra!!!!

Edwina's Secretary - I was going to bring up anthropomorphism too. Guess it was too late and I forgot :)

petsbestern - maybe you could print off some of these replies to try to convince your mom. I know you will not want your babies to have to go to the vet and go through surgery - none of us do! I was a crying mess when mine got done. But I know its for the best and I would *never* have an unfixed animal (well, except my fishies :D ).

Hey what about birdies? ;)

I don't think anyone fixes their birdies *I think*. My tiels have chosen not to mate for now themselves. Good for me! :D At least they don't have behavioral problems.................well, at least mine don't. I do hear they because VERY protective and territorial when the female starts laying.

[aly]

Originally posted by popcornbird
None of my cousin's cats are fixed, but they are indoor/outdoor cats so who knows what they do out there.

OMG!!!!! PLEASE educate your cousin on the importance of getting them fixed. I know you don't like it but her cats are out there reproducing with all the other outdoor unfixed cats and adding to the feral problem I'm SURE!

[aly]

Yeah - I've never had a bird before so I'm not sure. If vets don't routinely do it, then I won't have mine fixed either :) When I finally get them that is *Sigh* I want some SO BAD!

[Ann]

One more thing:

As for the whole pain part, I think I can safely say that male cats aren't in pain at all/much. I did part of the neutering of a male cat once when I was working at the vets, and it was a very simple, fast and clean procedure. Didn't even bleed much and he wasn't in any obvious pain either when he woke up.

[aly]

Oh yeah - males bounce back VERY quickly from the surgery. Most females do bounce back pretty quickly too, but I have seen some pretty out of it and sicky for a day or two. But a day or two of not feeling well makes up for a lifetime of being healthier and happier.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by aly


OMG!!!!! PLEASE educate your cousin on the importance of getting them fixed. I know you don't like it but her cats are out there reproducing with all the other outdoor unfixed cats and adding to the feral problem I'm SURE!

I'm sure too, but she lives in England, where almost all cats are indoor/outdoor. She refuses to keep them in all the time. Her cats are seniors now (14 - 18 years) so I don't think she would even think of it now. When they were young, I was young too, so I knew nothing about it! I'm sure she knows. She's just freaked out from the the idea of removing a part of their body. I have a friend that is so scared of it, she declines from taking her bunny to the vet ( I know, bad. Very bad) because she's afraid they will convince her to "remove" its organs. I told her to take the bunny to the vet at least for a checkup. He's a backyard bunny with a huge hutch, so he can't go out and get bunny kids, but I still try to convince her to take him for a check up. I tolf her the spaying/nuetering is her choice. The vet won't do it without asking so she doesn't have to worry about that. She's just SO scared. :eek:

I do believe spaying a female bird would reduce the risk of egg binding, which can cause death if not taken to the vet immediately (its when a bird is laying eggs but the egg gets stuck and won't come out), but I doubt vets do it often, so I believe the risk would be very high. I wouldn't risk it. Personally, I don't know anyone that has spayed/neutered their birds.

[Logan]

I don't think people neuter their birds in reality. They can separate them, if necessary, but as much as I have read, and I'm no expert, I don't know of any situation where that was done.

I can't add much to the original thread except to say that I totally agree with the masses here. There was never a doubt whether to spay or neuter any of ours. Never has been in the past either. I chose to do it at the earliest possible date with my dogs and with Mimi. Butter was taken care of the day after he walked in the door of my house. Even with an inside only cat, I experienced "heat" with Shrimp Boat and I don't know who was more miserable, Shrimp Boat or me, but I surely wouldn't want to repeat that. Wish your mom would change her mind for the sake of the health of those animals, and for their well being.

Logan

[Daisylover]

Getting back to rabbits I can tell you that if you do not neuter your bunny eventually you are going to have some problems with him.

Not only is he going to want to have the overwhelming urge to mate but when he can't, he will probably go after things that belong to you. I volunteer at a rabbit sanctuary and all are neutered for not only the overpopulation problem but for health reasons as well. Rabbits are prone to reproductive cancers..it is untreatable and a horrible way to die. Male bunnies will also spray urine to mark their territory and urine from an unneutered bunny is MUCH stronger in smell than from a neutered bunny, after all he and his hormones are trying to attract a mate.

Also I would expect that he will become very romantic with your feet. He is going to follow you around and trip you up. He will become aggressive towards you, probably biting to get your attention. Most likely try and mate with your shoes and will probably pee on any of your things that has your scent on it....clothes, blankets, toys, it doesn't matter to him.

And you know what's going to happen then? The adults in the house are going to get angry. It doesn't matter that he is only following his instincts, and that the decision NOT to neuter is what is causing this behavior problem. Not many adults are willing to put up with all that peeing, being underfoot and aggressive behavior. In most cases, the bunny ends up being tossed out the door.

I am trying not to say this is what will happen with YOUR parents but in doing rabbit rescue work for over 5 years, I see this neglect and the bunny getting blamed for following his natural instincts all the time. It is way too sad and so unnecessary for a rabbit to lose his home over something as simple as neutering.

And while I am on a roll, let me add that domesticated rabbits DO NOT have the survival instincts of wild rabbits. Domesticated, i.e.pet rabbits, expect to be cared for, fed and housed. Being tossed out the door is a death sentence.

Good luck with your mom and dad. I really hope you are able to make them see that neutering is the right thing to do.

[CathyBogart]

I would definitely continue to talk to your mother about neutering. Show her websites that state some of he health/behavioral problems that unaltered male rabbits can have. Mention that getting him neutered will significantly reduce any odor problems and eliminate spraying. It is, IMO, just as important as having a dog or cat neutered. I have had one altered and one unaltered male rabbit, and if I had it to do over I wouldn't hesitate to neuter the other.

Also, the surgery to alter a male rabbit is inexpensive and noninvasive.

Please please PLEASE convince your mom to do the responsible thing!

[Jessica12345]

Ask your mom this:

if she could do somthing about homeless kids and save them, would she?

If she would then why not save the animals?:)

[catlady1945]

We must be responsible citizens and spay/neuter our pets. If one visits an animal shelter, one sees the consequences of our irresponsible behaviour.

[popcornbird]

:confused: :confused: :confused: Where'd your post go Floppsy? :confused: I was going to reply to it and it disappeared. :(

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by aly


OMG!!!!! PLEASE educate your cousin on the importance of getting them fixed. I know you don't like it but her cats are out there reproducing with all the other outdoor unfixed cats and adding to the feral problem I'm SURE!


The sad truth about cat overpopulation:
Just one pair of cats, plus all their kittens, add up to :
First Year 12
Second Year 66
Third Year 382
Fourth Year 2,201
Fifth Year 12,680
Sixth Year 73,041
Seventh Year 420,715
Eighth Year 2,423,316
Ninth Year 13,968,290
Tenth Year 80,399,780

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by shais_mom



The sad truth about cat overpopulation:
Just one pair of cats, plus all their kittens, add up to :
First Year 12
Second Year 66
Third Year 382
Fourth Year 2,201
Fifth Year 12,680
Sixth Year 73,041
Seventh Year 420,715
Eighth Year 2,423,316
Ninth Year 13,968,290
Tenth Year 80,399,780

OMG! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

In that much time, a human would only add 2-6 normally to the population. :eek:

[wolfsoul]

I'm not sure of the statistics on bunnies or cats, but I know that there are THREE TIMES as many STRAY dogs in the world as there are people...isn't that sad? There are probably more cats in the world, so why not show your mom these statistics and tell her that there are even more cats?

[petsbestern]

Well, I printed these replies out for mom, but she still won't agree. She said we are not removing any part of any of our pets' body and that was it. Our not spaying/neutering our animals is not going to add to the population at all, so don't worry about that. We are not going to have a spraying problem either, because my cat and bunny have their own rooms. When we renovated our house a few years ago, we have a very big yard, so my dad made 2 special pet rooms that we could house our pets in. They are made in the yard, but they are attached to the house by a hallway, so its basically part of the house. Both rooms have full air conditioning and heating and they are properly ventilated with many windows. They are insulated too. Its part of the house and what we call "the pets palace." There is no carpet there. The floors and walls in both my kitty and bunny's rooms are fully marble and we made a few drains in the floor. There is also a pipe connection in the room, so in case the cat or bunny sprays, we can wash the whole room. Its very easy to clean. :) My kitty's room has 3 different cat trees in it, a box full of toys, 2 beds, her food and water dishes, and everything a kitty could ever ask for. :D She does come in the main house area ALL the time though, but that's the room where she lives, goes bathroom, etc. I guess it doesn't matter that she's not spayed because when she grows up, she has her room, and there is no way she could get out. Its not mean to her in that she will see a cat through the window and can't get to him, because she can't see any other cat. We don't have a 2nd cat (though we might get another female one) so she can't see any male kitty. Its not going to add to the population in any way. My bunny has his own room too with everything a bunny could ask for. Its connected to an outdoor run, and he has an indoor/outdoor hutch there too. We can also wash his room if he ever sprays. I don't know if you understand how the setting is, so I kind of made a drawing of it to give you an idea. Yes my dad dedicated a lot of money for our pets by making those special rooms just for them! My parents cannot handle a spraying problem, so if the bunny sprays in his room, we can easily wash the entire room. :) I'm in those two rooms all day when I'm not with the birds. The three birds live in the living room, so they are around us all the time, and the kitty and bunny are just around the corner. Its like going to the garage, but not really because its part of the house. :)

[petsbestern]

Ps. The bunny room and outdoor run were supposed to be a puppy room and outdoor run, but I was begging for another pet and my parents said they weren't ready for a dog yet, so we got the bunny instead, and the bunny got the nice room and run! :D

[moosmom]

Petsbestern,

You mother is doing a great disservice to both pets. Spaying/neutering let your pets live longer without the threat of cervical/uterine cancer. My cat developed pyometria (yours will too eventually). It's a uterine infection that can kill the cat and any babies she gets pregnant with. Shorty, my Muchkin, was spayed and the problem is gone.

I hope your mom will listen. She got some wonderful advice here. There are far too many unwanted, abandoned and abused cats out there, and the problem is NOT going to go away. It's only going to get worse. :eek: She's not making it any better, only adding to the problem.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If a doctor said to your parents, "You child needs to have her tonsils taken out. It will greatly increase the quality of her life. She will be sick less and she will be more comfortable." Would a parent say "no"? Same for removing wisdom teeth. Neither are life-threatening situation but involve the removal of body part to improve the quality of life and the parent or cargiver making the decision on behalf of the child.

[aly]

You have only addressed one reason - the overpopulation problem. What does your mom say about the sickness and the uncomfrtable feelings when the cat will be in heat? Even if they don't see another cat, the urge will still be there. Everyone has given such great advice. Did your mother not even consider it? Can she talk to the vet about it?

[2kitties]

You said you all take your animals to the vet often. Possibly you could privately ask your vet to discuss the benefits of neutering with you mother. You mother may respect an educational conversation with the doctor.

Spaying and neutering is the KINDEST thing a pet owner can do for their animals.

[ramanth]

It's very nice that you've made a room specifically for your bunny and kitten. Not everyone has that opportunity.

But own room or not... an un spayed female will yowl. And it's not a cute little meow. It's loud and annoying and they off course howl at all hours of the night when you are trying to sleep.

Before I got my female cat fixed, she was in heat for two weeks straight. She howled all night, every night. I can't imagine anyone voluntarily living with an animal that does that.

And males spray. Females can spray too. That kitty room will reek to high heaven.

In a year or two, perhaps your mom will understand.