Chewy, I need elp on the most important decision ever

[Aspen and Misty]

Chewy bit my sister Abbey for no reson. I was there. He bit her arm but luckily she was wearing her coat. He bit her and refused to let go. If she wasn't wearing her coat I'm 100% sure she would have bled. He also snapped at me when I tried to take him to my room. My sister and mother both think I should put him down, I'm starting to agree with them. I don't think he will stop and I can't have my dog biting people. He is getting worse and worse and now when you pull on his collar he will growl and snap at you. I was wonderign what you all thought? I know you don't know everything that he has done or you have never met Chewy, but I would like your opionion. Now please don't think of Chewy as your dog but as a my dog and yo uare giving advice to one of your best friends so be truthful. I have a feeling you will say not to put him down there is hope but I don't think there is. I have givin it awile to set in so that I wouldn't make a spure of the momenth shoice but I have and I have really thought about it.

Ash

[lute]

putting him down i think should be the last thing that should cross your mind. but it may be a have to kinda thing. i hate doing this but smack his mouth. buy a muzzle. that is what made my pom quit biting.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lute
putting him down i think should be the last thing that should cross your mind. but it may be a have to kinda thing. i hate doing this but smack his mouth. buy a muzzle. that is what made my pom quit biting.

Actually it was our very very last resort. But now when people come over Chewy has to be locked up and He can't go any where any more and Teddy and Huney are now doing the presentation at school with me, if I do it. Smacking his mouth would make him worse not better, I've treid and he snapped at me.

Ash

[slleipnir]

I think your last resort should be giving him to a home who can help him out of this habbit, someone who knows dog behavior and can care for him. I don't think you should put him down :[

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by slleipnir
I think your last resort should be giving him to a home who can help him out of this habbit, someone who knows dog behavior and can care for him. I don't think you should put him down :[

Agreed.


Today i visited Roxy and talked to one of the best volunteers there. She was telling me how Roxy need help and dicipline. Befor when I had taken Roxy out by myself, she was fine. Today it was me, my dad and my friend Becky. We took her out and she got very hyper and a little too much. She thought of our hands as chew toys and would NOT stop no matter what we did. She did stop after a while, after a few scratches and some teeth marks on our hands. I don't think she's trying to be agressive, i don't think she meant to hurt us.. She just doesn't know when to stop and how to play correctly. She's also horrible on her leash. I'd love to adopt her and help her along with her porblesm but we can't have a hyper dog who doesn't know when to stop, he'd go insane and I think i would too. I love her to death though, she's a sweetie besides her problems and one of the most beautiful dogs i've seen. I'll continue to visit her, but i think visits are all she's going to get. She's a big dog and could knock even the strongest of men on their behind.

Ash-
Sorry for blabbing on in your thread. I don't think he should be put down. He's still a puppy right?? Maybe you could contact a rescue and see what they have to say befor you go to putting him down. Maybe they have people that can help him, or someone willing to spend more time [although i know you've done alot with him.] He's a smart dog, just look at all of thoose tricks. He's beautiful. His life does not deserve to end... I'm not sure what else to say but i really think you should give him a second try with another family, new surrounding and all. Maybe he needs a change or maybe they have something more to offer in helping him along. Hope this helped a little bit, and if not, sorry I have nothing else to offer.

[Karen]

He needs help. He may need to be rehomed with someone who can help him. I would write to every behaviorist you can find, and ask if they know anyone who could take him. How very sad for you both, but that behavior is unacceptable.

[lovemyshiba]

How sad!! Poor Abbey--she's ok, right?? My parents had a golden retriever that bit everyone and attacked other dogs (believe it or not)--it was inbred, and sick, so they had to have him put down at 6 years--my stepmother still cries when she sees one.

I don't think you should have him put down, maybe just placed somewhere else. I know it is the LAST thing you want to do (besides putting him down), but it may be best for both of you.

Let us know what you decide, and how it is going.

[primabella]

ash, i am so sorry you need to go through this. you give chewy so much time and affection, it is so sad it has come down to this. i have no other advice, i just want to wish you luck and i'm praying that chewy will change. i know it would be hard, but praying always helps. i hope abbey is alright and you and your family make the right decision. he is dangerous to have around so maybe doing what slleipnir suggested would be best (and better than putting him down). {{hugs}} good luck

[rizzy]

first of all i cant see anyone putting down such an adorable dog but he cant be biting. Why dont you try special training or something.....
my prayers are with you:( :)

[rizzy]

and chewy

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by rizzy
first of all i cant see anyone putting down such an adorable dog but he cant be biting. Why dont you try special training or something.....
my prayers are with you:( :)

Aww thax. He is the cutest aint he?? Gotta love his big brown nose and his gold eyes.

I dont' want to give him to anotehr place, to Mugsy (if she offered) or to a rescue organization because if he bite them I wouldn't be able to deal with that. Expecially Molly or Mike, as someone told em to ask them to take him. He bit my sister for no reson and then when I treid to take him back to my room he snapped at me and if I hadn't of had his coller he would haev got me. Now trust me I would never put Chewy down for snapping because well, I've been bit by Teddy liek 10 times, but its diffrent with him. And Chewy is big a powerful. I mean what if that was little Judy a girl I carpull with? Or what if the trainer had kids or other dogs he will hurt other dogs and could possibly bit the kids.

Well anyways, I know you guys won't like this but we have decid to put him down. He is to much aof a powerful dog to be doing this. I talked to the trainer who knows Chewy and who has followed our process and she backs us up 100%> I havn't stopped crying for 2 hours. This is just how it has to be, I want to help him I really do. This is one of the hardest thigns I have ever had to do but I think this is what needs to be done.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Kfamr
new surrounding and all. Maybe he needs a change or maybe they have something more to offer in helping him along. Hope this helped a little bit, and if not, sorry I have nothing else to offer.

Thanx Kayann. Acctaulyl Chewy got new surrounds 2 months ago when we moved. I have done everything the trainer I've been working with told me to. I don't think there is anything else that can be done to help him. Thank you for posting and taking the time to help us out though ::hugs::

Ash

[primabella]

omg i am so sorry ashley!! :(:( poor chewy! but it is for the best, i suppose. i don't knwo what else to say:( please take care of yourself. give chewy a big hug from me and mickey :(:(

[Kfamr]

I seriously think you NEED to talk to a rescue organization befor you decide anything to drastic.

[micki76]

Ash, I'm so sorry. I understand your decision. I know how hard it must be. I wish you the best and if nothing else, at least you know you did all you could do for him. I know that aggressive dogs can be very dangerous and sometimes no matter what we do, the aggression escaltes. I also admire you for not being willing to put another person at risk. Please let us know if we can help you. I'm so very sorry.:(

[aly]

Hi Ash,

Here's the bottom line: you know Chewy and we don't. It is my first instinct to beg you not to put him down. But after having worked with some aggressive dogs in shelters over the years, I am starting to understand that some dogs are just ... aggressive. I know you've been struggling with this for a long time and have even had professional help. I applaud you for trying to fix the problem for so long. Maybe a behviorist and a new environment could fix him, but maybe not.

Many people decide to just keep aggressive dogs but they'll keep them locked up all the time so they don't have to deal with it. That is no life for a dog and sometimes they are better off laid to rest (I can't even believe I'm saying all this - its so hard for me).

At the end of the day, the decision is yours and your family's. I know Chewy is so young, but some of the things you describe have been really scary and don't seem like normal puppy behavior. What if he gets older and gets 10 times worse?

I would tell you to seek second and third opinions and so forth, but I think you have done that.

Its just so hard for us to judge because we can't see it. I'm sure its much worse for you to witness and it might not sound so bad when you type it on the computer because people are removed from the situation.

Oh yeah, never hit or use physical violence on an aggressive dog. 99.99% of the time it makes it muuuuuuuch worse.

So anyway, what I'm trying to tell you - don't feel bad about your decision. You are the one in the situation who knows all the details and all the horrific experiences. Not letting go of a child's arm is VERY VERY VERY bad. Please feel confident and seek comfort knowing that you made the best decision you could. I know you would not put him down if not absolutely necessary. I'm crying so much right now. I'm a big softie who believes every dog should live ... but I am starting to understand and become less naive about just some dogs need to be put down :( poor Chewy.

My prayers are with you. I know it will be very hard. Please spoil him for his last days :(

** sorry I sound like a babbling idiot - hope you get the gist of the message though :(

[slleipnir]

I agree. I SERIOUSLY think you should consider giving him to someone who maybe knows more about it rather then putting him down, I don't think thats fair to him..I know he's bitey and all, but I duno..

[luckies4me]

I don't believe you are doing the right thing putting him down so early.


When I worked as a trainer there were a lot of dogs there who needed stern discipline the right way. Yes we get bit, but that is our job and that is what we are trained to do. You can't just take one persons word as gospel, your trainer is only one out of money who would be willing to help.


Maybe your home is just not the right home for him....that shouldn't have to condemn him to death should it? I do believe you care for Chewy a great deal but please give him a chance with another trainer or rescue. We see TONS of dogs, and a lot nip.bite/bark/dig etc, but most can be trained to stop that disruptive behavior. If after seeing other trainers etc. he does not get better, then make the decision. Every dog deserves a second chance, or more.

Do you know dogs could smell feel? They will sometimes bite because of that.

There are also drugs that could help him get better. Just because your family is not the one who can meet his special needs doesn't mean there is one out there who can't.


Please give him another chance. :(

[aly]

Ash has given him a lot of chances. This isn't new behavior from him. I really do not think that she made a snap decision at all. I'd be the last person to support her if I thought she was acting too quickly. Also from what she describes, that is not normal nipping/biting/etc .. he wouldn't let go of a child's arm. That is pretty severe. I know she doesn't take this decision lightly and she's probably off right now crying her eyes out.

The best we can do is support her through this tough time :( I *think* she did say she was going to call other trainers or behaviorists for advice. Not quite sure though.

I have had internships with some applied animal behaviorists - one of them specializing in aggression - and I really think Chewy sounds aggressive beyond help. You would think its because of his breed, but his breed just has nipping tendencies since they're herders. Not letting go is another thing :(

[luckies4me]

Could it be that he nipped and then had the jacket in his mouth and thought it would be fun to wrestle with it?


It doesn't sound like she consulted any other behaviorists besides her current one.


As a herder he is probably just trying to "round them up" so to speak. Perhaps a home where he can act out those tendencies naturally would be a big help to him, he could reflect those feeling in a positive matter.

Send him to a farm...I am sure there are a lot of people out there who would be willing to put his nipping skills to work.


I just think she should talk to people who are experienced with his type before making that decision, I would hate to have them regret it later. :(

[aly]

Well I thought she did. I don't know. I will let her respond so I don't give false info.

[luckies4me]

I am sorry if I am seeming cruel or non supportive Ash, whatever decision you make I will fully support you.


Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.


I remember watching animal planet and this family was on with their shepherd mix dog. The dog was laying on the floor in the kitchen when the couples daughter went to pet the dog. The dog bit her and she needed stitches. They were going to euthanize the dog but first consulted with a vet who ran tests and found out the dog suffered from terrible arthritus and had to have surgery. The dog was in a lot of pain and did not bite out of agression, simply pain. Well the spared the dogs life and a couple of months later there was a big fire and the dog saved the family and girl from death. The dog went into the girls room and woke her up, and she than woke up her parents who got out of the house safely. If it weren't for the dog they would have died. His barking saved their life.

Now I am not saying Chewy is a life saver lol, this was just a little story to show that maybe there is another cause behind his nipping. You never know.

[aly]

Originally posted by luckies4me

Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.


Yes, I've been working at shelters enough years that I have seen this way too much too. I don't know if you've been following her posts, but this has been going on for a long time. Just a lot of what she describes doesn't sound like herding behavior - some of it does like when she is running and he bites her. But not all of it does.

I think we agree that if he is truly aggressive, the best thing to do would be to put him down. And if its just herding stuff, he would definately be better off in rescue. Maybe Ash can describe more circumstances in this thread to give everyone a better understanding.

[luckies4me]

Thanks, I am glad we understand eachother. :)

[Twisterdog]

I have refrained from replying to most of your posts regarding Chewy until now, because it seemed to me that you weren't quite ready to hear my sure-to-be-unpopular opinion on this matter.

I own a boarding kennel and grooming shop, and have been on the board of directors at the humane society for the past seven years. Before that I volunteered in various capacities at a couple humane societies in different parts of the country, since 1986. I have also done pet-sitting and dog training, and have co-led a 4-H dog club. So, in short, I have quite of bit of experience with dogs.

My personal opinion on your dog is that the best thing you can do at this point, for both your family and the dog, is to euthanize him. Obviously, from your posts over many months, you have worked hard on reforming this dog, both on your own and with a behaviorist. It seems to me that instead of getting better, your dog has actually gotten worse, despite your best efforts.

Some dogs can't be "fixed", no matter what we try. Just like some people can be helped. It's a sad, sad fact of life. A dog that continues to exhibit aggession to humans despite behavior modification and training is indeed a liability, to himself and his owners. Your dog is a lawsuit and/or medical bill waiting to happen. It is not natural or normal for a dog to be aggressive to humans ... if it were, they would not be the beloved, trusted pet that they are today, with millions and millions of dogs living in houses with families and children. Some dogs just aren't "wired right", though, and as tragic as it is, the best and most humane thing one can is to put them out of their psychological misery.

I know this is a hard, hard thing for you to do. I have been there, and had to do it, so I know first hand what you are going through. I had to take a rottweiler to the vet and have him euthanized for the same reason - ongoing and progressive aggression towards humans. It was very, very hard to do ... and he wasn't even technically my dog, he was a dog at our shelter. You need to keep in mind, however, that you are doing the kindest and most prudent thing for the dog, and your family. Sometimes the best choices in life are the hardest to make.

[wolfsoul]

take obedience clsses? a muzzle? shock collar?
i understand that u r concerned about the ppl around u getting hurt...i dont know anyone who hasnt even had the thought of putting down cross their mind, and i know some who have even considered it, including me, so i dont blame u at all....
i think that obedience classes r the best way to go...
but if u really think that putting him down is the right thing to do, then i will go with ur decision....chewy is ur dog and so its ur choice, and ur the only one here who knows for sure whats best for him

[delidog]

Have you tried to e-mail Best Friends...they work wonders with dogs...and have animal behaviorists on staff there....
go to bestfriends.org
look into their organization...it might help

or [email protected]
she is a good contact person.....

at least try for yours and Chewys' sake.....
aussies' are VERY nippy dogs by nature...they are Bred to Bite the heels of cattle...Heelers have the same issues....
perhaps,she is acting out her natural instincts....

maybe I'm grasping at straws....but a short e-mail couldn't hurt right?????

good luck....God Bless you and Dear Chewy

[Aspen and Misty]

He is NOT nipping. Teddy nips and I know what that is like. Chewy's bites to kill not to play tug of war or anything. When he grabed her coat he didn't move his head he just grabed it and held on for dear life. When he attacked Teddy he bit to kill, not to play or to nip.

Thank you Aly, Twisterdog and everyone else who have been supportive. This is not easy for me and I really need to support right now. I'm still looking for options and am playing on calling some behaviorist in State college to see what they say about it. Although, I can't call every trainer in the US just to see what they think I will try to call a couple to see what they think. I'm also going to talk to my vet and see what he says. I am calling people, I don't want Chewy to die, I really don't. I know he is young, but I have tried everything else. I know many of you disagree with this and are probly mad that I'm killing an animal who has a chance at life, but its not going to be a normal life, he would have to be caged all the time and its not fair to him.

Ash

[wolf_Q]

Oh...this thread is going to make me cry. :( This is not a new behavior for Chewy, and I honestly do not think it is just the nipping/herding tendencies of the Aussie either. I thought that originally she thought he might be part westie, and if that's true...terriers can also be very bitey, and that would not be a good combination. Chewy is also a young dog, and his behavior doesn't seem normal.

I know that Ash loves Chewy very, very much. And she really has worked with him, socialized him, taken him to trainers...she has tried so hard to work with his aggression problems...



Ash, I hope you will at least first contact the person at Best Friends first though...I think it's a good idea. They'll take in animals to live there for the remainder of their lives, even animals that can't be adopted.

I just want to let you know, that whatever you do, I'm behind you. I know you love Chewy and you always will love him. I wish there was something I could do to help. :( :(

[zippy-kat]

Ash,

As Aly said, *YOU* know the situation best. With that thought, I support you 100% in whatever you do.

{{If you need to talk, I'm only a PM away.}}

[Aspen and Misty]

Thank you Amy and Tonya. You guys are the best ::hugs::

Ash

[popcornbird]

I know you love Chewy very much and this is very very hard on you, but I personally totally disagree with putting any animal down for behavioral reasons. :( I know he is aggressive, wants to kill, etc. but I do NOT accept the idea of putting an aggressive animal down. :( Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him. Please please please, I beg you. I know this is very hard, but please don't kill him. :( Take him to a rescue organization and let them decide what to do. :( Don't put him down yourself. :( Please Ash, I know you love him, but PLEASE don't kill an innocent animal just because he has behavior problems. :( If he wants to be wild, wild animals have a place in this world, so please don't put him down. Give him up (meaning give him away) but please don't put him down. :(

Chewy doesn't deserve to die. :(

[wolf_Q]

Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him.

Please, tell me how this is going to help Chewy. Ash has had him since he was a pup. She did not make him aggressive, that's just how he is. I honestly believe that some animals are born that way, though that is not normally the case. How is taking him to a shelter going to help? So somebody else will adopt him and have the same problems, or even worse? Take him to a farm so he can run wild and possibly attack livestock? Another home?? He HAS a good home. He is loved, he is cared for....and she *has* talked to several people about his behavior, and she has done whatever she could to help him. She is not just "giving up" on Chewy, this has been going on for a long time. She's still going to call and talk to some people about him, she's doing all that she can.

In the end, it is her decision...and a very, very, very, difficult one at that. I hope we can all be supportive, for whatever may lie ahead for Chewy. :(

[popcornbird]

Yeah, I guess it won't help, but I don't agree with killing him. :( Maybe giving him to a rescue organization will help. They might know what to do. :( I wish you luck Ash in making the best decision. I know it is hard, and I know you love him dearly. Just please try to do everything you can to solve the problem, yet spare his life. I hope you find the best way to solve this problem, that will be best for you, your family, and Chewy. :(

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him ... Take him to a rescue organization and let them decide what to do. Don't put him down yourself.


First off, if the pup has to be put down, I think it's best if his OWNER does it. Not someone who has known him for a wk, a day, five minutes.... Not only would it be of comfort to Chewy, it would be of great comfort and closure to Ashley.

Giving an agressive dog away only leaves room for frustration and heartache. Can you imagine giving him to a farm (as luckies suggested) and having him turn against the livestock? Livestock = livelihood for those farmers. Anything that is of detriment to their livelihood must go. And unfortuantly, this often includes euthanization in an inhumane way.

The shelters? Unless it's an exceptional shelter, most consider aggressive dogs unadoptable. Chewy is likely to recieve the same fate. He might have a longer time frame with a rescue organization but a new situation, new stress....?! How is he going to adjust to that?! He is in familiar and LOVING surroundings now.. I can only imagine his actions if placed in a stressful environment.

I've spoken with Ash a few times; from our conversations and from her posts it is evident she loves her animals. Ash, I know in posting this you had to expect strong & differing opinions. While I would like to see Chewy's behavior modified so that he might live a long happy life with you, I know *YOU* know what is right for him and I stand behind you 100%.

[popcornbird]

Ash, I was just staring at the pic of Chewy in your sig for a while. He is such a cute, innocent looking pup. Its hard to imagine how he could be so aggressive. :( I wish you luck in making the best decision. I know you will do what is best for your family and for Chewy. :(

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by zippy-kat

I've spoken with Ash a few times; from our conversations and from her posts it is evident she loves her animals. Ash, I know in posting this you had to expect strong & differing opinions. While I would like to see Chewy's behavior modified so that he might live a long happy life with you, I know *YOU* know what is right for him and I stand behind you 100%.

Thank you to Amy and Tonya, you guys are so great. I was expecting replys like Popcorbirds, but I really didn't expect anyone to defend me against the other people, I should have known better though ::hugs::

I do love chewy, to death. And right now if someone walked in and said you or the dog I honestly would say me. I have to agree, if I gave him to a rescue they would put him down in a couple of days. I would rather be the last one to hold him in my arms and I would rather him die to the sound of my bawling then to the sound of other dogs barking. I agree a farm would not be a good place for Chewy and LOL I probly no more about agrssive dogs then an average famer and besides what will a farm do for him? He is walked 3 times a day so he gets plenty of exersise. He gets to much love, there really is nothing a famer can do, and besides what makes them such great canadates for agressive dogs?

Ash

ps: Talk about heartbraking, he just brought me my ball and I started to cry so he jumped up and licked me as if to say "I'm sorry Mom"

[Aspen and Misty]

O another thing. I don't know what your views on this will be but...

I can't live my life without a dog. Going from having a dog of my own who I care for 24/7 to having no dog will be even harder on me then going from having Chewy then to nothing. We are going to be looking at dogs starting monday. I want one before we put Chewy down so that its not as hard and I will have something to focass my time and love on to help me get through the pain. I don't want you guys to think I'm trying to replace Chewy, cause no one can. He is my first dog and the love of my life. I love him more then anything and would do anything for him. We will not be purchasing a dog till I talk to the behaviorist cause if there is any hope at all, I will take it and work with it. Also, we will not acctaully get the dog till the day after Chewy is put down, I don't want him to think we are replacing him.

Ash

[Cookiebaker]

Dear Ash, I am crying so hard for you right now. I know you have loved Chewy and have worked so hard for him. And I hope you will find comfort knowing that you gave Chewy the best chance that he ever had, and that he was loved and well cared for. {{{{Ash & Chewy}}}}

And I totally understand your desire for a new pup...I hope you find "that special one"...and no, you will never "replace" Chewy, but find another companion to give special love and care to.

I'll be thinking of you.....

Anna

[Pam]

I hadn't seen this thread before and just read it all right now. Ash, I know you have thought long and hard about this and I don't think any of us can judge you until we have walked a mile in your shoes. I know you are experiencing a roller coaster of emotions. This is an extremely gut wrenching decision!! I can hear it in your posts. Whatever you decide to do, I will support you. {{{hugs to you and Chewy}}}

[primabella]

i feel really bad. i guess a new pup would be great. what are you looking into? well, no matter what it is, i wish you the best of luck with him/her.

ash, i can suggest a whole bunch of things rather than put chewy down but i'm sure you have tried them already. what is left? an agressive dog like that isn't safe. i am so sorry. just be proud of yourself for actually trying to help him. some people would euthanize there pets because of little agression problems. i don't know what else to say. just take care of yourself. ::hugs:: to you

[Fett]

*HUGS*

Do not feel as if you have failed. You have tried everything.

Kia and I send our love and support.

~Kimmy, Kia, and Andy

[aly]

Ash,

I think I would also get another dog pretty soon so I know how you feel. It is definately not replacing the other dog.

Can I suggest finding one at a shelter? Maybe you will feel better knowing that possibly Chewy was supposed to go to Rainbow Bridge so you could save a sweet innocent soul who would otherwise have been put to death for no reason.

[lovemyshiba]

I am sorry you are faced with such a tough decision. I know you have done everything you can for Chewy, and that he has had a loving and caring family while he was with you.
I will stand behind you 100% whatever you do, I know it will be hard.
Next time you're up this way, I'll give you my address, and you can stop in and meet my 2 nutcases--they should cheer you up a little.
Good luck with this very tough situation, I hope something can be done.
PM me if you need to talk.

[mugsy]

Let me second what Mike said. We will come and get him if you will allow us to.

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by mugsy
Let me second what Mike said. We will come and get him if you will allow us to.

That is so incredible of you to do, you two are truly dog heroes.

By the way, if you go to get Chewy, I'm pretty close, you should come by and meet Kito and Abbey!!!!

[RockyRoad]

I just saw this thread.

Ash, my heart breaks to hear about Chewy. You have always worked so hard to help him when something went wrong. I remember I made you that picture of Chewy a long time ago when he bit Teddy. I hope you don't get mad for whatever reason, but I want to post it again.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid35/p6c3191222aa6ec819cd7e432db8039b9/fd2cdf5e.jpg
Anyway, that is a very brave decision you have made. We all know how much you love Chewy, and how many things you did for him. You have our support as well.

[Jessica12345]

omg! :( I just saw this thread and i am, very, very, sorry. I know how hard this must be, but i stand behind your decision. **HUGS**:( :( Im crying so hard right now! *tissue box please*
I still cant beleive this. God bless you and chewy.
I think i would also get a knew dog soon. I wish you all the luck in the world.

take care,
Jess

[micki76]

Let me second what Mike said. We will come and get him if you will allow us to.
Ash, I think you should consider this offer before you put Chewy to sleep. Then if things still don't work out, you know you really did EVERYTHING for him and I'm sure you could still be there if he still needs to be put down. Mike and Molly may have more resources to try to get him help. You never know Ash. And you'd know what happened to him in the future, good or bad. If they didn't have this offer on the table to you, I'd say put him down. But with this option, my opinion changes.

Mike and Molly - you are wonderful people. That sounds so inadequate, but I think it sums you up.

[luckies4me]

I agree with micki76!


If after trying this he does not get better the only thing left to do would be to euthanize him.


As far as me saying he should go to a farm, that was before I KNEW he had had ongoing problems for while. Some herding dogs like this breed can be great if giving a positive thing to focus on, which in case would be herding.


If he is truly agressive, than yes it's common sense to put him down. There would be no safe place for him.


While working at the training center there was a dog there who was VERY agressive. He would lunge at people for no reason. The trainers worked with him for several months and eventually he became avery loving friendly couch potatoe dog. :)


But some dogs can't be fixed and if he can't there is no reason to put your lives or other innocent peoples at risk.

But please let Mugsy help. If after that they seem he would be unfit as a pet etc. then euthanasia would be best. Either way I fully support your decision and this must be truly heartbreaking for you and your family. I am very sorry this is happening to both you and Chewy. :( My heart goes out to all of you.

[KYS]

Ash,
I respect your decision and know your heart must
be breaking. I just want to make sure, that you have rulled out
Chewy's behavior is not a medical problem?
IF not I would do a complete blood work on Chewy
etc. to make sure he does not have a medical problem
such as Thyroid.
If he has no medical problems, than you know
your dog better than anyone.

[Sudilar]

Ash, I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

Was the behaviorist that you have taken Chewy to, a Specialist in Dog Aggression? Being the owner and foster home for GSDs, a breed that can show aggression, I am familiar with what your concerns are. In my area, we have an aggression behaviorist. In fact, he is the one who evaluated my assigned (but declined) first foster, Pete, who almost removed my nose. He was only 8 months old. He is now in training to be a police K-9. Something was able to be done for him, if not, he would have been pts.

Good luck to you and Chewy.

[Aspen and Misty]

As I have said before in this thread I don't want to give Chewy to Mike or Molly because if they got bit by your dog how would you feel? I can't even imagine the guilt I would have if Chewy grabed one of there none furry dogs by the neck and threw it around the room like he did to Teddy. They have to many dogs and Chewy would not be happy. He has to be the alfa dog and he can't with 20 other large dogs. Also, there is always that one last thing you can try and you can always hold on to that hope but we have to learn to let it go, Chewy is agresive and I think we jut need to accept that. I mean how can he be? Look at him over in the corner eating Bunny poo, so adorable, lol. I promise to make his last week a special one. We plan on going to the park TONS of times and he is going to be bloated on dog biscuits. He doesn't have to eat dry dog food this week only wet. he will get a new monkey to tear apart in 2 days and he will be loved till no end.

On the issue of another dog we have deced on a Doberman, now I know what you are thinking they are mean agressive dogs and you don't want me to go through that again. We will be getting an older one, from a rescue. There is someone named Ronnie around here who is planning on giving up there 11/2 year old Female Dobie and we plan on talking with her about her. We called some rescues and the lady is having knee surgery and has no Dobies. We are also planning on going to the SPCA to look and see if they have any. We do plan on doing a temperment test on the dogs we get and we wont be getting any younger then a year. We will be looking at the dogs extensivly before even considering getting it.

Ash

[AmylovesMisty]

Originally posted by slleipnir
I think your last resort should be giving him to a home who can help him out of this habbit, someone who knows dog behavior and can care for him. I don't think you should put him down :[

I agree!

[Sudilar]

ASH, has Chewy been evaluated by a DOG AGGRESSION SPECIALIST?

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Sudilar
ASH, has Chewy been evaluated by a DOG AGGRESSION SPECIALIST?

Ash, there is a huge difference between a behaviorist and a dog aggression specialist. It could mean Chewy's life or death. Try to find a specialist. Please, for Chewy's sake. He may need a strong handler. You may not be what he needs to control him.

[mugsy]

Yes Sue, I totally agree. That's why I wanted to take him. I am perfectly willing to accept whatever Chewy wants to dish out. I'm just concerned that he's not seen the people necessary to fix his problem. We have had 3 dogs with major aggression problems and they have been worked out. I'm sorry Ash, but I cannot in good faith support your family's decision.

[Sudilar]

Ash, what could it hurt to send Chewy to Molly and Mike. They are familiar with aggression and if he can be controlled, they are the ones to do it. Why would you kill him if he has a place to go? If Molly feels that he is hopeless (after exhausting ALL avenues), then I'm sure she will do the right thing. Sure sounds better than immediate death. Sorry to sound harsh, but we are talking death and I've seen too much of it lately. If there is a chance, why not give it to him. Just my opinion, sorry.

[micki76]

Ash, Why not give them a chance with him? I'm starting to question this an awful lot. Someone with a wealth of experience and complete knowledge of his issues has offered to take him and work with him and you still say no. You'd rather put him down????You ask how would we feel if our dog bit them or their family member? Well, I'd feel bad if they didn't know the risks, but they do. I'd feel much worse putting Chester or Millie to sleep if I could possibly avoid it. They would, I'm sure have him supervised at all times until they either got a handle on him, or could predict any bad behavior before it happened. I will be VERY disappointed if you follow though on this decision without giving them, and him a chance. I know Chewy isn't the dog you hoped he'd be, but he still deserves a chance. He may be a totally differnet dog with them. Dogs can adapt and change their personality with different people.
An extremely confident and strong hand may be what he needs. You may also find out that he doesn't need to be the alpha, or maybe he would be the alpha in their pack.

[mugsy]

I have been informed that we have had more than 3 dogs with aggression issues and after thinking about it that's right. Mike has dealt with each and every one of them. Trust me on this one, we have seen just about everything there is to see when it comes to behaviors. I am here in front of everyone on Pet Talk to say that I accept any and all liability to Chewy. I am even offering to drive out to PA and pick him up. He would be crated when we aren't home until he has been evaluated by us and the other poochies. I trust he won't be alpha, but, I think he'll try. He will learn quickly that the only true alphas in this society is Mike and me. Some how I would think that 20 dogs who already make up a pack would be slightly daunting for one medium size pooch.

[Sudilar]

Mugsy, you are such an angel and Mike, too.


Originally posted by micki76
he still deserves a chance. He may be a totally differnet dog with them. Dogs can adapt and change their personality with different people.
An extremely confident and strong hand may be what he needs.

This is true. Some dogs need a strong hand. I have seen it. There are some dogs that even I would not be able to control, however, another person (such as my husband) would have no problem.

Give Chewy a chance.

[Corinna]

Ash, I know you want the best for chewy. So I say this as to try to help him. Have you thought about giving him to the miltary or police for and working dog? They need dogs that have an independant streak and can be thinking of there self protection. Its a jobyou could be proud of him doing and you know they take very good care of them.Now is the time they are really training for homeland protection and such. Or how about you local police dept. do they have a k-9 unit ? I have had them help me with an aggeresive dog be fore . They have great techniques and want to help be for they get a call about bites or maulings. Give it a try for Chewys sake.

[aly]

This is no offense to Molly and Mike whatsoever, I love them, but I see where Ash is coming from. I don't think I would send my possibly aggressive dog to someone I only knew from a message board because of several reasons. She knows her dog better and if she feels he would not fit into a home with several other dogs, we should respect that. I know Lolly would absolutely be miserable with any more than 2 other dogs in her home.

What I WOULD do however is what Sue said about an AGGRESSION SPECIALIST. If someone who specializes in aggression told me to put my dog down, I'd feel more at peace with the decision than if a regular trainer told me. I had thought that Ash did seek help from an aggression specialist but I can't remember. I have a migraine and I'm confused.

[lovemyshiba]

I did send Ash the names and numbers of a few trainers and specialists in my area (she lives about an hour from here)--I can't find their cards right now:rolleyes: , but I know she is going to call them. I'm going to call my vet tomorrow also, and see if she knows of anyone that I didn't already know of.

Another thing, I know we all will do everything we can for our dogs, and we love them all to death. There may not be an agression specialist in her area, and it may be far for her to travel, and a lot of money. I know that's not an excuse to everyone, but sometimes it is not an option for some people.
Ash, I'm not saying that isn't an option for you, I'm just saying--I don't really know what!!

[mugsy]

Aly, I've already said it didn't matter. If he bites either one of us, I wouldn't tell anyone anyway, so what difference does it make? I just don't want the dog killed. I'm just frustrated that we've made the offer and it doesn't seem to matter.

[micki76]

Originally posted by mugsy
I'm just frustrated that we've made the offer and it doesn't seem to matter.

I know. I don't understand.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[micki76]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
There may not be an agression specialist in her area, and it may be far for her to travel, and a lot of money. I know that's not an excuse to everyone, but sometimes it is not an option for some people.

Mike and Molly have even offered to go get Chewy.

[Twisterdog]

Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him.

I'm sorry, but this is an incredibly naive and dangerous thing to say. The absolutely worse thing a person with an aggressive dog can do is to dump the problem on someone else.

An aggressive dog will be the first to be euthanized at a shelter. Even Best Friends will not take dog-aggressive dogs. Shelters have a limited amount of space, time and funding. They must take the most adoptable dogs, and the rest are euthanized. If the dog needs to be euthanized, it should be done by its owners, in a loving, safe environment - not done at a frightening, loud shelter by strangers. People dumping their problem dogs at shelters is one of the reasons the euthansia rate is so high. It's wrong, and it's an incredible cop-out, and I'm so very glad to see Ash is mature and responsible enough not to be considering this very bad option.

It is my understanding that Chewy is not a purebred dog, and therefore a rescue organization if probably not going to take him. Most rescues (not all, but most) specialize in purebred dogs.

Giving an aggressive dog to a farm or another home is simply ridiculous. Chewy already has a good home, with lots of love and attention. The home is not the problem, the dog is. What difference does it make if it's a farm or not? A farmer is not going to want to be bitten by a dog any more than someone in a city is. And the first time the dog goes after livestock it's going to get a bullet in the head, I promise you.

My personal opinion is that Ash is fully aware of all the options that she has. Everyone has given her good advice and listed a lot of choices. However, we all need to keep in mind that Chewy is her dog, and she is the one who knows him best, loves him, and has to live with him and deal with his behavior and the consequences of that behavior. It is not up to us to judge or criticize her for the choice that she makes. We are not the ones walking miles in her shoes.

[Jessica12345]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
As I have said before in this thread I don't want to give Chewy to Mike or Molly because if they got bit by your dog how would you feel? I can't even imagine the guilt I would have if Chewy grabed one of there none furry dogs by the neck and threw it around the room like he did to Teddy. They have to many dogs and Chewy would not be happy. He has to be the alfa dog and he can't with 20 other large dogs.
Ash

poor teddy!:(
im so sorry:(

im also bringing this back up because everyone is still offering to take him, and im not sure if they saw this. i really ddont want any dogs to get hurt or put down, but i can understand why you are doing this.

But i can also understand why people dont want you too put him down. :(

is teddy ok?:(

poor chewy:(

[mugsy]

I've seen it

[lovemyshiba]

Ash, it is YOUR decision, but I found 2 more specialists in the state, who may be able to help:
Cranberry Townshib:
Lap Wolf Dog Training--owner Heather Houlahan
[email protected]
742-772-7837

and in Port Matilda (10 minutes from here)
Bell Hollow Dog Training Center
[email protected]
814-692-7241

I know these both say they are training centers, but both said they will take aggressive dogs--it could be worth an email.

[lizbud]

Ashley,

This is not the first time you've had to give up a dog is it?
Maybe you are not the trainer you think you are, maybe Chewy
would do better with different people & consistant training
methods. Give Mugsy & Mike a chance with him please.With so
many dogs having health problems that they fight to find a
cure for; to put a dog to death for behaviour problems that
could be corrected, seems pretty drastic.Show how much you
do love Chewy by giving him this chance. Just my opinion.

[mugsy]

here's a quote from a behaviorist that I found online...

"If your dog is aggressive, and has bitten or you think he/she might bite, please see a trainer or behaviorist. A behaviorist is one who specializes in training beyond basic manners. Again, be very frank with this person. Many, many, most, ALMOST all dogs can be helped with proper training. The hardest part is actually training the humans."

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lizbud
Ashley,
This is not the first time you've had to give up a dog is it?
Maybe you are not the trainer you think you are, maybe Chewy
would do better with different people & consistant training
methods. Give Mugsy & Mike a chance with him please.With so
many dogs having health problems that they fight to find a
cure for; to put a dog to death for behaviour problems that
could be corrected, seems pretty drastic.Show how much you
do love Chewy by giving him this chance. Just my opinion.

Nope I have never in my life givin up a dog thank you very much. And I have trained Chewy well, you don't know him and will everyone please stop attacking me god. Sorry I've been to busy to replay latly but I see I have turned out to be the most horrible person on the earth acording to ya'll. Yup thats right I'm a cold heartless bitch who kills dogs for no reson, thanx guys, really.

I'm going to make this large so you all can read it this time
I am calling a behaviorist tomrrow. I will see what they say!! Now that I hope ya'll have read that.

Thank you Emily I will add them to the list :D your so helpful. I don't expect you all to agree with me, and I knew you guys would do this which is fine, I know I would if I were in Ya'lls situation. Really, Some of ya'll just showin how much you love Chewy, and I want to thank you for it. I do take EXELLENT care of Chewy so stop saying I don't as if I'm correct some of you said I dont' take good care of him. I train Chewy EVERYDAY. I got rid of his old agressive problems and now he has new ones. No matter what he is going to be agressive. He will fidn somethign new to be agressive about. But as I said, I have not giving up on him and if there is hope I will take it.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

ps: I think my trainer is crazy :eek: seriously though

[micki76]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Nope I have never in my life givin up a dog thank you very much. And I have trained Chewy well, you don't know him and will everyone please stop attacking me god. Sorry I've been to busy to replay latly but I see I have turned out to be the most horrible person on the earth acording to ya'll. Yup thats right I'm a cold heartless bitch who kills dogs for no reson, thanx guys, really.

I'm going to make this large so you all can read it this time
I am calling a behaviorist tomrrow. I will see what they say!! Now that I hope ya'll have read that.


Ash

I don't think anything of the sort!!!!!! I think you're giving up too easily on him. I know you've dob\ne everything YOU can do. All I'm saying is don't put him down before you give someone else a chance with him who wants a chance and has shown they can help dogs with this problem.

Ash, you have stated here that you definately are putting him to sleep. You talked about how you'd make his last week alive great. It just bothers me. I am SO glad that you're calling a behaviorist. No one thinks you're a bad person, we just can't undertand why you are so intent to do this????:confused:

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
ps: I think my trainer is crazy :eek: seriously though



Why would you say that? Did she say she could help Chewy? Because if she did she has a lot more experience with this sort of thing than any owner does. Good luck!:)


I do have to say though that I don't agree that you should get a dog "before" Chewy gets put down if he does. You should focus all your attention on him and making his last days as comfortable as possible, not stressing him more with brining in a new dog so he can see you give the other dog attnetion. That sounds really hurtful. :(

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Why would you say that? Did she say she could help Chewy? Because if she did she has a lot more experience with this sort of thing than any owner does. Good luck!:)


NO she wants me to go see teh worst vet in the area and talk to him about putting him on Kidney failer medcine, whic hmight help I mean I don't know, I'm not a trainer. I'm goign to call my vet and see what he thinks cause he is so smart adn I trust and value his opioin in this. She also said Chewy is dangerouse and should probly be locked in a room at all times because you never know when he is going to bit.

I dont' insist on him being put down, I just feel he is dangerouse, imagine if he did that to a little girl. It was horrible, I wish you could have seen it. Also, I'm afried I know what most trainers are going to say. Put a basket muzzle on him and he needs to wear expet when he is locked up in his crate. (What the Crazy trainer said and said her vet will say)

Also, I'm not giving him to Molly and Mike, if there is hope for him I will find him another home, but they have to many dogs for Chewy. I man don't get me wrong Molly and Mike are my hero for saving all those dogs, (and I think they need 20 more :p), but I don't think Chewy would be happy and I don't want him to live a life of misery.

Ash

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


NO she wants me to go see teh worst vet in the area and talk to him about putting him on Kidney failer medcine, whic hmight help

So she thinks he might have a physical problem? Could pain be causing his aggression?

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by micki76
I am SO glad that you're calling a behaviorist. No one thinks you're a bad person, we just can't undertand why you are so intent to do this????:confused:

Thanx, I hope she says we can do something. I've been crying all day, its been a crappy day. I need to go through the list lovemyshiba sent me to see which ones are behaviorist and I plan on calling them all :D what can I say, I love my Chewy. So, dont' try to call me tomrrow the line will be busy...

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Sudilar


So she thinks he might have a physical problem? Could pain be causing his aggression?

Nope. She thinsk the medicine will help him. Also not feeding him as much will help. And I was abotu to up his food. But his problems are his bad genes. She said alot of hound dogs come in with the same problems and so do Aussies. She has put alot of them to sleep and she feels Chewy is the same way. He just got the worst of the 2 breeds genes. But of course he got his daddy's pretty Aussie looks and his momma's body, LOL. It still cracks me up everytiem I look at him, he's sooo looooonng, LOL.

Ash

[wolf_Q]

Let us know how it goes with your vet and the phone calls. I hope that you will able to do what is best for Chewy...I really hope you are able to help him with his aggression and keep him with you, and if not the decision is yours, and we know you loved him no matter what.

And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy.

I think it would be good to get several opinions! Maybe a good behaviorist who deals in aggression will be the answer. I hope...I've been thinking about Chewy all day. :(

[mugsy]

I'm done. Obviously my offers mean nothing. I'm sorry that Chewy is the one that loses (and if that makes me a witch, so be it...it's my opinion). I've done all that I can. And wolfq, our dogs are well loved and well taken care of and I'm sorry if you wouldn't ALLOW any of your dogs to come to us....that's YOUR problem.

[micki76]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy.

Dogs live in PACKS! They are not lone creatures.

[aly]

Originally posted by luckies4me

I do have to say though that I don't agree that you should get a dog "before" Chewy gets put down if he does.

She's said in a previous post that she would definately not get it before Chewy was put to sleep. I think she's just looking around now but would not adopt until after Chewy was gone.

I am in agreement with Twisterdog on this pretty much. We all know how much Ash loves her baby. She knows the problems a lot more than we do. She's calling aggression specialists. I think that if someone specializing in aggression tells her she does need to put him to sleep, then that is what she needs to do. If she says he will be miserable with 20 other dogs, she's probably right. I know one of my own dogs would never ever go for that because of her traumatizing past. Ash and Amy are not saying they wouldn't want their dogs to live with mugsy in particular .. just anyone with a large number of dogs. I have no doubt in my mind your dogs are well loved and cared for Molly. I just know that my girl gets extremely uncomfortable around more than a couple dogs and/or bigger dogs. Thats all I'm saying but thats not even on topic I guess.

I think the people on this board who are involved in rescue one way or another understand a little better that not every one can be saved. If he is aggressive because of his genes, he probably cannot be fixed. I know that a VAST majority of behavioral problems CAN be fixed, but there is a handful that can't. Unfortunately it looks like Chewy fits into this category :( If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(

Also, most shelters would probably put him to sleep before even moving him into the adoption area :(

[Aspen and Misty]

Yes but Chewy attacks dogs and attacks to kill. You don't know Chewy, he attacks dogs and I'm afreid that He will attackone of there dogs and ripped there skin off there neck. Now I know there dogs are cratted while they are not home, (I have no problem with that cause Chewy is) so I know nothign would go on while they weren't home but when Chewy attacks not even beign smacked with a hairbrush as hard as you can can get him to let go of the dog. He kinda has springer rage, his eyes glaze over he has no idea what is going on and he attacks to kill.

Also I know dogs are pack animals but Chewy does not like other dogs, infact I think he hates them.

Molly, please, I'm sorry, I know you love your dogs and I know you are an angel. Honestly, when I grow up I hope I can be half as selfless as you are. I really do beleave all your dogs are the luckiest things on the earth.

Ash

[wolf_Q]

Excuse me? Did I say your dogs were not well cared for??? Did I say that your dogs were not happy living together?? :confused:

I'm fully aware that dogs are pack animals. Dogs enjoy the company of other dogs. I, PERSONALLY, yes my own opinion, about MY OWN dog, would not want my dog living with 20 other dogs. Is that ok with with you?? Am I allowed to have an opinion???

[micki76]

Originally posted by aly
If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(
This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.

[zippy-kat]

What does a pack do when an aggressive dog is introduced?

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by aly


She's said in a previous post that she would definately not get it before Chewy was put to sleep. I think she's just looking around now but would not adopt until after Chewy was gone.

I am in agreement with Twisterdog on this pretty much. We all know how much Ash loves her baby. She knows the problems a lot more than we do. She's calling aggression specialists. I think that if someone specializing in aggression tells her she does need to put him to sleep, then that is what she needs to do. If she says he will be miserable with 20 other dogs, she's probably right. I know one of my own dogs would never ever go for that because of her traumatizing past. Ash and Amy are not saying they wouldn't want their dogs to live with mugsy in particular .. just anyone with a large number of dogs. I have no doubt in my mind your dogs are well loved and cared for Molly. I just know that my girl gets extremely uncomfortable around more than a couple dogs and/or bigger dogs. Thats all I'm saying but thats not even on topic I guess.

I think the people on this board who are involved in rescue one way or another understand a little better that not every one can be saved. If he is aggressive because of his genes, he probably cannot be fixed. I know that a VAST majority of behavioral problems CAN be fixed, but there is a handful that can't. Unfortunately it looks like Chewy fits into this category :( If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(

Thanx, I'm glad you trust my judgemtn. I really need suport right now and I don't want to fight with anyone adn I don't wnat any one to be mad. I promise I'm not just a supid teen, I really know what I'm doing and I'm doing all I can! I'm calling behaviorist and I'm talking to my vet, what else do you want me to do???



Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by micki76

This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.

Thanx, I'm so gald you love my Chewy. ::hugs::

[Sudilar]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by aly
If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.


I also agree with this.

[aly]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
He kinda has springer rage, his eyes glaze over he has no idea what is going on and he attacks to kill.


I know what you're talking about and that is really scary. This is one of the many red flags I've read that you've written about the poor boy. That is what I hope people will understand - that its probably not normal behavior at all. Please let us know what the specialist says.


Everyone - I think we should all cool off a little. I think we all agree on this actually. Its such a hard decision for Ash and I'm sure she's suffering. Lets just wait and see what the specialist says.

**HUGS TO ALL**

[micki76]

Originally posted by zippy-kat
What does a pack do when an aggressive dog is introduced? It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes. :)

[micki76]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Thanx, I'm so gald you love my Chewy. ::hugs::

I do, Ash. And I'm sorry if we've made you feel bad. We're just all so very worried about all of this. Please give Chewy a HUGE hug from me and give yourself one, too ;) I know you love him, and I know this must be pure hell for you.

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by micki76
It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes. :)

Well, I must have a really messed up "pack" then. Nebo has been here since July. Reggie still hates him. It doesn't always work out that way.

I really don't see how my comment was this "personal attack" on Mugsy...but ok, if that's how you see it.

My dogs would not be happy with all those other dogs. Reggie doesn't like dogs. He hides just from Nebo, I can't imagine him with so many large dogs. Smokey is old and can't take much. Nebo likes dogs but gets overly excited and sometimes is a bit aggressive in his play. He doesn't know when to stop.

If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

[micki76]

Originally posted by wolf_Q


Well, I must have a really messed up "pack" then. Nebo has been here since July. Reggie still hates him. It doesn't always work out that way.

I really don't see how my comment was this "personal attack" on Mugsy...but ok, if that's how you see it.

My dogs would not be happy with all those other dogs. Reggie doesn't like dogs. He hides just from Nebo, I can't imagine him with so many large dogs. Smokey is old and can't take much. Nebo likes dogs but gets overly excited and sometimes is a bit aggressive in his play. He doesn't know when to stop.

If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, too:( Reggie may always hate him. Ever meet one of those epole you instantly hate?
I never thought you were "attacking" Mugsy. :confused: I think I'll get off of here before too many people get mad.

[wolf_Q]

Sorry micki76, my post really wasn't directed at you....I just quoted what you said....it just doesn't always work out that way. Maybe it's my fault, but Reggie just doesn't like Nebo, and I don't think he ever will. Not all dogs can get along with other dogs...

Sorry Ash, I wasn't trying to start a fight in your thread. I honestly was not trying to make anyone mad with my post, I really was just trying to point out that if you think Chewy wouldn't be happy with so many other dogs...then he probably wouldn't. We all know our own dogs best.

Sorry everyone. :( And Mugsy, I do believe you love your dogs and take good care of them. I could never handle it. Just having the full responsibility of one really annoying and strong-willed dog is hard enough, I don't know how you do it. :)

[Kfamr]

I have a feeling this is going to end up like when everyone attacked Angel for putting her dog in the pound., Someones feelings are going to end up hurt, someone going to leave and then there will be another hole in pet talk. Lets just focus on Chewy and the good for Chewy. I myself think you should take Molly and Mike's offer. They are good people, and so are you. Maybe they can help. Maybe they have something more to offer than you have. Give it a try. and who knows, maybe Chewy will get over all of this.

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx everyone. Chewy is sooooooooo cute. He's fast asleep on the blanket, love my chewy baby, LOL he got allll dirty, I gotta give him a bath now :D gotta love him.

i also wanted to say Micki- You guys (I don't think you have yet, hee hee) are making me feel like a really awful person, but thats ok, I understand its out of love and I really know you guys love Chewy, I mean who couldn't love him???

Ash

ps: We deced if the behaviorist says he needs to be put to sleep we are probly going to be doing it late this week (Thrusday or Friday) I can't stand to look at him and I've been crying for almost 2 days staright. Also, there is a 11/2 year old Female Doberman (with floppy ears) who we are going to look at this saturday or sunday, I dont' know if I will be ready for a dog by then but I think I will. I really love my Chewy and I'm not putting him down early cause of the Dobie this weekend, if I had it my way he would be a perfect dog and I would have him till the day *I* died.

[aly]

This is way different than the Angel situation. Complete opposites.

Thats all I will say on that or my blood will begin boiling and I'll probably get kicked off here at the things I have to say about THAT!

[Kfamr]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Aspen and Misty]

Hey now. This has nothign to do with ANgel. So lets drop it please. I would really like to keep this thread as focased as possible.

Ash

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
Hey now. This has nothign to do with ANgel. So lets drop it please. I would really like to keep this thread as focased as possible.

Ash

Never said it did, and it's exaclty what i said. This is about Chewy.

[slleipnir]

I'm sure everything will work out the way it should. I think you should just follow your heart Ash, I shouldn't have said anything I don't think as I DON'T know what your really going through and I don't think a lot of us have. I think whatever you do its for Chewy's best; you'll make the right choice.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by slleipnir
I'm sure everything will work out the way it should. I think you should just follow your heart Ash, I shouldn't have said anything I don't think as I DON'T know what your really going through and I don't think a lot of us have. I think whatever you do its for Chewy's best; you'll make the right choice.

Thank you ::hugs::. I'm dont' have a prefrence, although my heart is screaming RUN AWAY WITH HIM. LOl :rolleyes: but my whole family is scared of him, of course I'm not, he's just to cute and I'm his mommy :D . I want to keep him, honestly I do.

Ash

[luckies4me]

What gets me is that if she says he bites to kill how come the other dog isn't dead yet? Has he ever hurt the dog where the other dog needed sitches? If not he was most likely just wanting his own space?


Itjust doesn't make sense to me. And the vet sonds like a loon! Fed him less? What the heck is that?

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by luckies4me
What gets me is that if she says he bites to kill how come the other dog isn't dead yet? Has he ever hurt the dog where the other dog needed sitches? If not he was most likely just wanting his own space?


Itjust doesn't make sense to me. And the vet sonds like a loon! Fed him less? What the heck is that?

i dunno, that was the trainer, aint she crazy???? Teddy as most of you know is a sheltie and luckily Chewy never got through that fur but has thrown him around the room pretty bad. Teddy has had bit wounds on his head from Chewy, although, none required stiches.

Ash

[Crikit]

Ash

I know this is a hard time for you, and I'm deeply sorry to hear about the Chewy situation. I know you've tired everything possible and still are trying to do everything possible to help the little guy. Just know that I'll stand behind you with whatever you decide to do with him.

[Aspen and Misty]

Thank you. Everyone's suport mean so much to me. I am so happy I have all of you behind me. Its only 9:40 and I'm already extremly tierd. Its been an emtionally draining day and I can't wait to go to school to get my mind off of everything.

Ash

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


i dunno, that was the trainer, aint she crazy???? Teddy as most of you know is a sheltie and luckily Chewy never got through that fur but has thrown him around the room pretty bad. Teddy has had bit wounds on his head from Chewy, although, none required stiches.

Ash


Hmm she sounds weird to me, but that's just my opinion. Ouch poor Chewy! :eek: Well I hope you have a better day tomorrow and hopefully school will take your mind off of this matter a little.

[Aspen and Misty]

Blha me to. I don't thin my days will get better till things settle down with Chewy.

Ash

[Twisterdog]

It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes.

Usually ... but not always. Any of us that have done rescue and had multiple dogs in changing pack dynamics knows that once in a while you come across a dog that simply will not adapt to life in a pack. Just as there are people who cannot deal with society. I believe there are antisocial, reclusive, sociopathic dogs just as there are people. I have one living in my boarding kennel right now, as a matter of fact, because two years of intensive training and behavior modification has made not one bit of difference in his nasty attitude. My sister has two Siberians that hate each other, and have from the moment they laid eyes on each other six years ago. She has to keep them separated at all times, or they will kill each other. I've taken in rescue dogs that I simply couldn't keep ... they hated all the other dogs and caused nothing but problems, despite extensive efforts. It's not always possible for a dog to live in a pack situation.


And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy ... If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

I have many dogs who could live with twenty other dogs, and think it was a dream come true. But I have a couple dogs that couldn't handle it ... they can barely handle living with ten other small dogs. And I've had to send rescue dogs to another foster home because they absolutely couldn't deal with eleven other dogs. There are no hard and fast rules. I agree with your comment, not all dogs could handle this situation. I didn't take your comment to be offensive, just realistic. We don't know Chewy, we don't live with him ... Ash does.

[oodlesofpoodles]

this is really sad, but it is a very hard decision i dont like putting one down but if the aggression is getting worse. that may be the thing to do. as placing him in a new home i really dont think that would help, there could be a medical problem my gsd that i lost to cancer became aggressive went after me several times in one weekend so on that monday off to the vet we go. her cancer had spread to her brain. she was only 4 1/2 yrs old. my heart goes out to you i've been there and its not where i would want to be agin. take care and lots of hugs and prayers.

[Karen]

What about Mugsy's offer, Ashley? Have you reconsidered that? They have dealt with aggresive dogs successfully before, and have said you would be liable or anything ... they'd be going into the situation eyes open, and would love to give hima chance.

I'm not trying to pressure you, kiddo, and rest assured we know that you love Chewy and you know him best. Give him a belly rub, and yourself a hug from me.

[lovemyshiba]

This whole thread is still making me so sad http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/bawling.gif

Please let me know what happens with any of the calls you make tomorrow, Ash. I am going to call my vet tomorrow too, and another vet whose children I used to watch in day care, and see what they say (my vet will most likely not help, she always says she has to see the dog, but maybe in this case she'll offer a little advice).
I have to work from 10am until 2pm, then look at a house at 2:15, I will try to make these calls either from work or before I go, and pm you or give you my phone number if I get any news.

Stay strong!!

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx everyone.

Yes Karen, I have thought abotu it some more, infact every morning since Friday I have woke up and gone through this thread like 10 times to make sure there are no suggestion on here that I feel comfortable with and want to do. It always comes out the same. I don't want him living with 20 other dogs, no offense to Mike or Molly, I love them and everythign they do and I can not get over the fact they have taken in 20 dogs, it still shocks me someone has that many dogs in 1 house. I do hope they didn't take any offense to anythign I have said and I have pmed them and everything and we have talked about it in pm's.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

:D I will be calling the behaviorist this after noon. We have decedthat if there is something we can do for Chewy we will nto keep him but find hi ma home with some one who canwork with him. We have deced this formany resons. One, he needs someone who is home alot more and who is willing to spend all day watching him closly and my whole family is afried of him and no one wants to be around him any more in fear he will atack them to. It all depends on what the behaviroist says and I will be bakc ot post around 4 (its only 10:01 and I'm in school). Well I have to go, I guess I'm suposed to be paying attention in this class.

Ash

[lovemyshiba]

Ash, do you still have all of the numbers I gave you?
I talked to the owner of the Pet Store I told you about, and she rescues dogs. Anyway, she said John Jones is THE BEST in the area, and he would do a full evaluation, and specializes with aggressiveness. She said that she had a shepherd once who bit everyone, and turned him over to him, and he turned out to be a great dog.
I can get the number again, or I can even call for you, if you want--just let me know!!

[Cataholic]

First, I want to say, I am very saddened by the situation Chewy is in.

Now, having said that, didn't we go through this whole thing with Amy and Misty and Chewy several months ago, OR, am I confusing her with another member???? How can you post that you are putting down a dog, then say, "yes, we ARE doing it", then, SIKE we aren't, and I am going to call someone else...."


I am wondering if this isn't somewhat made up for excitement value? ?????

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
Ash, do you still have all of the numbers I gave you?
I talked to the owner of the Pet Store I told you about, and she rescues dogs. Anyway, she said John Jones is THE BEST in the area, and he would do a full evaluation, and specializes with aggressiveness. She said that she had a shepherd once who bit everyone, and turned him over to him, and he turned out to be a great dog.
I can get the number again, or I can even call for you, if you want--just let me know!!


Wow, this sounds like the perfect person to check out Chewy!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Cataholic
First, I want to say, I am very saddened by the situation Chewy is in.

Now, having said that, didn't we go through this whole thing with Amy and Misty and Chewy several months ago, OR, am I confusing her with another member???? How can you post that you are putting down a dog, then say, "yes, we ARE doing it", then, SIKE we aren't, and I am going to call someone else...."


I am wondering if this isn't somewhat made up for excitement value? ?????

Nope. See what happend was Lovemyshiba gave me so trainers names and we decied to call them and talk to them about it before we went and put him down. I was planning on putting him down and at this moment even after taling to the trainers I still am, I'll explain that later. And who is Amy and Misty????? Never heard of them. This is the first time we have gone through this althoguh a couple of motnhs ago my mom said I had to put him down. But it turned otu my parents got a divorce and I was able to keep him as long as he didn't live with Teddy.

Now for wha the trainers said. Auntie G's said that he was to far advanced and that he would just get worse. John Jones said Chewy will have to be locked up and kept on a leash. When people came over he needed to be locked up. And when we were home alone he needed to be at my side on a leash. So, I don't think Chewy will want to live that kind of life. And thats 2 trainers who have said he is to far advanced and one who said he needs to be locked up and kept on a leash, he's dangerouse. So, at this moment, unless something else comes up before friday, we plan on having him pts on Friday. O I also asked him if the police would accept Chewy and he said.

Ash

[aly]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
Ash, do you still have all of the numbers I gave you?
I talked to the owner of the Pet Store I told you about, and she rescues dogs. Anyway, she said John Jones is THE BEST in the area, and he would do a full evaluation, and specializes with aggressiveness. She said that she had a shepherd once who bit everyone, and turned him over to him, and he turned out to be a great dog.
I can get the number again, or I can even call for you, if you want--just let me know!!

You've gone above and beyond for Chewy. This may be his hope. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!

[mugsy]

I promised myself that I would not post on this thread again, however, I feel like I need to set the record straight.

Neither Mike nor I have been PMing back and forth with Ashley. I asked Mike to PM her and ask her to let us have him, which he did, and she did not respond until late last night, AFTER all the support for us to take him. Mike read it, and promptly deleted it. We have made our offer and it has been spurned, so, I guess Chewy won't be given a chance to come and live with us, and for that I'm sorry, because I know in my heart that we could make a difference.

How can these people give an accurate evaluation over the phone? I would not take that as credible at all.

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Now for wha the trainers said. Auntie G's said that he was to far advanced and that he would just get worse. John Jones said Chewy will have to be locked up and kept on a leash. When people came over he needed to be locked up. And when we were Ash

Were these phone evaluations or have the behaviorists met Chewy in person?

[aly]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Now for wha the trainers said. Auntie G's said that he was to far advanced and that he would just get worse. John Jones said Chewy will have to be locked up and kept on a leash. When people came over he needed to be locked up. And when we were home alone he needed to be at my side on a leash. So, I don't think Chewy will want to live that kind of life. And thats 2 trainers who have said he is to far advanced and one who said he needs to be locked up and kept on a leash, he's dangerouse. So, at this moment, unless something else comes up before friday, we plan on having him pts on Friday. O I also asked him if the police would accept Chewy and he said.

Ash

The trainers did the evaluations over the phone? Good behaviorists don't give advice until they have seen and evaluated the problem with their own eyes. I would consider taking him to see this John Jones guy.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by mugsy
I promised myself that I would not post on this thread again, however, I feel like I need to set the record straight.

Neither Mike nor I have been PMing back and forth with Ashley. I asked Mike to PM her and ask her to let us have him, which he did, and she did not respond until late last night, AFTER all the support for us to take him. Mike read it, and promptly deleted it. We have made our offer and it has been spurned, so, I guess Chewy won't be given a chance to come and live with us, and for that I'm sorry, because I know in my heart that we could make a difference.

I'm sorry you are so mad at me for this. And I understand becuase utimitly Chewy is the one who's life is going to end, not mine. And no I didn't mean, if I said anywhere, that we were pming each other back and forth. I'm sorry again for making you so angry, I understand your feelings completly.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by aly


The trainers did the evaluations over the phone? Good behaviorists don't give advice until they have seen and evaluated the problem with their own eyes. I would consider taking him to see this John Jones guy.

We did he was the trainer who said to lock him up and stuff, he did say he MIGTH be able to help him for a cost of $350 dollars, which is not the problem, the problem is he als osaid he was probly to far adavanced. I just got off the phone with him. No he did not do an evaluation over the phone he said He wanted to meet him.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Sudilar


Were these phone evaluations or have the behaviorists met Chewy in person?

Its an hour and half drive and $350 dollars to see them so No he has not met him and Chewy is so good in public I don't think he would be leave me Chewy is agressive.

Ash

[mugsy]

Ashley, you have NO CLUE!! I have spent TWO nights crying over this. YOU BETTER BELIEVE I AM ANGRY!! You would rather kill your dog than to allow us to take him. And as for saying that you have not been PMing us back and forth that is a bold faced lie. You might check back on page 8 of this thread when you posted while at school when you were in class.

[Cincy'sMom]

You are confusing me, Ash. First you say:
John Jones said Chewy will have to be locked up
and kept on a leash. When people came over he needed to be locked up. And
when we were home alone he needed to be at my side on a leash. So, I don't
think Chewy will want to live that kind of life. And thats 2 trainers who have said
he is to far advanced and one who said he needs to be locked up and kept on a
leash, he's dangerouse.

Then you come back with:
We did he was the trainer who said to lock him up and stuff, he did say he MIGTH
be able to help him for a cost of $350 dollars, which is not the problem, the
problem is he als osaid he was probly to far adavanced. I just got off the phone
with him. No he did not do an evaluation over the phone he said He wanted to
meet him.

but it seems you are going to go with the PHONE evaluation:

So, at this moment, unless something else comes up
before friday, we plan on having him pts on Friday.

I think you need to get your own story straight and tell us what is REALLY going on....

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
Thanx everyone.

have said and I have pmed them and everything and we have talked about it in pm's.

Ash

??????

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
You are confusing me, Ash. First you say:

I think you need to get your own story straight and tell us what is REALLY going on....

Ok this is what he said. Chewy is far advanced Agression. He might be able to help him, he has worked miracles. Its $350 and an hour and half drive to visit him. He said that Chewy needs to be kept in a crate and on a leash at my side at all times. We can't allow him to bite anyone so we can't give him opertunities. And yes, if something else comes up before this friday we WILL do it.

Did that explain it better?

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Sudilar


??????

Yea I know, when I posted it I didn't think about it that way. But It does sound that way and I will go back and fix it if they want me to? I don't want to give the wrong impression they pmed me adn I pmed then, thats all, we did not talk any more then that, we did not go back and forth nor talk more then that one time. I'm sorry it sounded that way, I did not mean to give the impresion at all and I apoligize to Molly and Mike for it comeing across like that.

Ash

[zippy-kat]

Ok...I'm not sure what is going on now.

Ash, calm yourself...type out a reply in MSWord (or the like), read, read and re-read and then cut and paste it into a post.... tell us EVERY detail so that we may better understand.

With your comment "he does so well in public" I'm beginning to change horses mid-stream... I think that is a ray of hope for him.

That being said, I wonder if he'd do better as a single dog rather than in a pack? Mugsy, what if he doesn't work out/tried to harm one of your dogs? :(

[lovemyshiba]

I have just put a call in to Mr. Jones--I would like to see if he could bend on the price at all, or work anything out. I know he does private training, and travels, so maybe there's a little hope. He is to get back to me this evening sometime.

Maybe we could start a Pet Talk "Chewy Fund", and help get him rehabilitated:)

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Ok this is what he said. Chewy is far advanced Agression. He might be able to help him, he has worked miracles. Its $350 and an hour and half drive to visit him. He said that Chewy needs to be kept in a crate and on a leash at my side at all times. We can't allow him to bite anyone so we can't give him opertunities. And yes, if something else comes up before this friday we WILL do it.

Did that explain it better?

Ash

Not really. It just says that he can't not do anything over the phone, and it sounds like he is giving you ideas to keep everyone until he could evaluate the dog in person. But I guess you aren't going to give hime that chance.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty

I don't want him living with 20 other dogs, no offense to Mike or Molly, I love them and everythign they do and I can not get over the fact they have taken in 20 dogs, it still shocks me someone has that many dogs in 1 house. I do hope they didn't take any offense to anythign I have said and I have pmed them and everything and we have talked about it in pm's.

Ash
Here it is.
I also said I wouldn't post here again, but I can't help myself. i'd really like to know what's going on here. Why kill the darn dog when there are excellent options? I JUST don't get it.:confused:

[lovemyshiba]

Yes, Ash, your second explanation was better--I know how it is when you try to type everything too fast--it makes no sense.
I did not call Mr. Jones to second-guess you, I just wanted to see if he could help. The owner of the pet store is very good friends with him, and maybe she could talk to him too. At very least, maybe he would take Chewy, work with him, evaluate him, and work a MIRACLE with him!!!!!

I also called him because my 2 monsters are in need of some obedience, and he does that too!!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
I have just put a call in to Mr. Jones--I would like to see if he could bend on the price at all, or work anything out. I know he does private training, and travels, so maybe there's a little hope. He is to get back to me this evening sometime.

Maybe we could start a Pet Talk "Chewy Fund", and help get him rehabilitated:)

Thank you for the offer hopefully we will be able to make the pay ments some how, if we do it. The only reson why I'm not saying yes lets do it is because he said Chewy sounds like he is far advanced agressive, he seems like a great trainer though.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
But I guess you aren't going to give hime that chance.

Why thank you. I would just like to say I will be back in a couple of weeks to tell you all what happened, I might lurk but I will not be posting. Thank you Emily for your help, you have been so wonderful, and if you have any new info please call me. Thanl you for everyone else who has suported me and may not any more, but thats your choice. I need to clear my mind, think about what the trainers have said, think about what all of you have said and if I don't post here any more I will atleast come back and tell you all what we have done and hat has happend.

Again, Thank you,
Ash

[lovemyshiba]

Ash, can you pm me and give me ALL of Chewy's details (age, breed, size,)--as well as any incidents he has had--I would like to call the woman at the pet store, as she is his friend, and see if she can't talk to him also, and maybe he can do something. She is also VERY interested in what happens with Chewy, she is such a great person, she told me to let her know what happens.

[mugsy]

Tonya,

Trust me...he wouldn't have the chance. There would be a totally tight leash on him until he learned, but it obviously doesn't matter, she's going to kill him regardless of what anyone on here says...that's been made abundantly clear, then she's going to go out and get a Dobie, and when she can't handle it then what will happen to that poor dog. I'm sorry I'm being harsh, but, that's the way I see it. Chewy gets sacrificed for a new dog.

[aly]

He probably just wants you to keep Chewy crated and on leash until the problem is fixed so no one will be in danger. Does John Jones rescue dogs also or know anyone who could foster Chewy while John works with him?

[Cataholic]

OK, I did a quick search on the issue of Chewy. I mistyped, I meant to say Aspen and Misty, not Amy and whoever I typed.

I read about 30 posts where you had some 'trauma' with your pets...and I again ask the same question...weren't you the one that said you had to put Chewy down before? From the BRIEF reading of the posts, it seems in December, you were JUST ABOUT to do it, then, the 'meds' started to work. Everyone got all upset. This seems to be identical to that situation.

Weren't you the one that just had to get rid of one dog...then days later, you were adopting another? Or, am I confusing you with someone else???? It seems like you have had NUMEROUS opportunities from people to get Chewy some help. Whether Chewy can be helped or not, it doesn't appear you are able to bring that about.

We have had way too many instances of people mistating the truth for anyone to just accept it....I just think you MIGHT not be telling the whole truth...and I think that is mean, and sick.

[Aspen and Misty]

Far from it Molly. FYI, the person we were going to be getting the Dobie from is not giving her up any more and the soonest the rescues will have any is in about 4 months. So either way ti wil be 4 months till I got a dog. And I love Chewy don't you ever EVER say that again, he is NOT getting sacraficed for a new dog thats bull crap.

I would like you all who are to stop talking crap about me now, thank you.

Ash

[lovemyshiba]

Ash, I couldn't pm you back, because your box is full
I am glad to hear you are going for the evaluation, when you come here, I would love to meet you and Chewy.
And, about your number, I would NEVER EVER EVER do that.

[Cataholic]

Yup, I am now convinced of it...we are once again being put on.

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by aly
Does John Jones rescue dogs also or know anyone who could foster Chewy while John works with him?

He may but I am not positive. I know the woman who owns the pet store does, but she has a sick labbie right now, and isn't taking any new ones just yet.
I am sure I can locate some fosters--our PAWS program uses fosters, they may be able to point us in the right direction.

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
Ash, I couldn't pm you back, because your box is full
I am glad to hear you are going for the evaluation, when you come here, I would love to meet you and Chewy.
And, about your number, I would NEVER EVER EVER do that.

So Emily you will be meeting Ash and Chewy as they go for the evaluation?

[wolfsoul]

i believe that ppl here should support her choice, not make this harder for her...some of the words i read here are very harsh and cruel, and it makes me sad to think how it would be if i had to make an important decision and ask for some advice....im not trying to start anything, but in my experience, the more u try to convince someone of not doing something, the more determined they r to convince u that it needs to be done....and if she says it needs to be done, then im pretty sure it has to be done....no, i dont like hearing about animals being put to sleep, but an unpredictable dog is not a good idea to have around ppl....putting him down while u have a choice is better than being forced to put him down later when he truly harms someone and bad things happen...if this is her choice, then i will support her and give her my condolences
im glad that ppl r trying to help, it is really nice of u...keep giving advice, but if u r going to be critical, im just not going to put up with it :(

[aly]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba


I am sure I can locate some fosters--our PAWS program uses fosters, they may be able to point us in the right direction.

Thanks for all your help. You are such an angel :)

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
i believe that ppl here should support her choice, not make this harder for her...some of the words i read here are very harsh and cruel, and it makes me sad to think how it would be if i had to make an important decision and ask for some advice....im not trying to start anything, but in my experience, the more u try to convince someone of not doing something, the more determined they r to convince u that it needs to be done....and if she says it needs to be done, then im pretty sure it has to be done....no, i dont like hearing about animals being put to sleep, but an unpredictable dog is not a good idea to have around ppl....putting him down while u have a choice is better than being forced to put him down later when he truly harms someone and bad things happen...if this is her choice, then i will support her and give her my condolences
im glad that ppl r trying to help, it is really nice of u...keep giving advice, but if u r going to be critical, im just not going to put up with it :(


BUT, I ask you, were you around for the first time we went through this with her? I agree, in principle, that we should be supportive of others decisions...esp., when they are as difficult as this one is. I just don't believe her. If you go back and read the December post, it is the SAME thing all over again. I am not necessarily critical of her decision to put him down, if that is warranted. But, I am critical of someone yanking my chain, time and again.

[Sudilar]

Emily is doing all in her power to connect Ash and Chewy with the help he needs. If the behaviorist determines, after meeting Chewy, that he cannot be retrained, then that is the time to pts. If there is a chance for life, why not give it to him?

[lovemyshiba]

I sure am trying. Yes I would love to meet with them when they come for the evaluation. My understanding right now is that he will do a free evaluation, and they can go from there. I have not spoken directly to him yet, or to Ashley.
I feel bad that she feels as if she cannot come here anymore.
I realize this is a very hard thing for her, and I know everyone is trying to give her advice, and I am really trying for Chewy's sake. But if I hear from her, and she tells me not to make any calls or anything, I will stop, because Chewy is her dog, and I am butting in enough already.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Cataholic



BUT, I ask you, were you around for the first time we went through this with her? I agree, in principle, that we should be supportive of others decisions...esp., when they are as difficult as this one is. I just don't believe her. If you go back and read the December post, it is the SAME thing all over again. I am not necessarily critical of her decision to put him down, if that is warranted. But, I am critical of someone yanking my chain, time and again.

Agreed totally. But what happened in the first time was Chewy had ahold of Teddy by the throat and my sister was sure he was going to die. After we got Chewy to let him go I came home heard the story and my mom said I HAD TO put him down, its was not my choice we HAD to have him put down. Teddy can not be being attacked like this and what happned if it happened to one of us kids? Well what happened was we endded up moving adn I could either live with my dad or put Chewy to sleep. So I chose to live with my dad. But again Chewy attacked Abbey really bad and he can never be trusted again around people, he is just to dangerouse. Now what happened was I posted on here this tiem and ya'll gave me some choices and I took some of them and am working with them, like the trainers choice and stuff but I'm sorry I'm NOT going to do somethign I'm not completly comfortable with, although now things have once again turned for the better and events are happeneing.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba
I sure am trying. Yes I would love to meet with them when they come for the evaluation. My understanding right now is that he will do a free evaluation, and they can go from there. I have not spoken directly to him yet, or to Ashley.
I feel bad that she feels as if she cannot come here anymore.
I realize this is a very hard thing for her, and I know everyone is trying to give her advice, and I am really trying for Chewy's sake. But if I hear from her, and she tells me not to make any calls or anything, I will stop, because Chewy is her dog, and I am butting in enough already.

Never I love you to death for doing this for me although there is no need to call because we are going, but if you want to call and confirm we are going, although I have not talked to him yet you may call and atleast confirm I HAVE talked to him.

Ash

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Cataholic



BUT, I ask you, were you around for the first time we went through this with her? I agree, in principle, that we should be supportive of others decisions...esp., when they are as difficult as this one is. I just don't believe her. If you go back and read the December post, it is the SAME thing all over again. I am not necessarily critical of her decision to put him down, if that is warranted. But, I am critical of someone yanking my chain, time and again.
im sorry, i dont think i read that other post...i will go look back i guess...im just afraid that history will repeat itself from the last forum i went on....i complained a little too much about a problem i was having and then i left for good...i will never know for sure if she is telling the truth, but y even mention it? i just think that if ppl think she is lieing, just say sorry and dont say anything else and ppl will stop replying altogether....if i ever say anything and anyone here thinks im lieing, just please dont reply...i dont know about ash, but im really sensitive to anything like this :(

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Sudilar
Emily is doing all in her power to connect Ash and Chewy with the help he needs. If the behaviorist determines, after meeting Chewy, that he cannot be retrained, then that is the time to pts. If there is a chance for life, why not give it to him?

Thanx, we will see what he says, hopefully all will be good.

[aly]

Lets concentrate on the good. Chewy will be evaluated and may have a chance now.

YAAAAAY!

[mugsy]

I only call them like I see them.

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


, although I have not talked to him yet you may call and atleast confirm I HAVE talked to him.

Ash

I am not trying to second guess you, I was calling him anyway about my dogs. I did just speak to him, and we talked about my dogs for a while ( I didn't mention a thing about Chewy or anything), and before we hung up, he asked me if I gave his name out to a girl in Williamsport. I told him yes, and he said he is getting back to you and your father very soon. He is going to evaluate Chewy, and he is great!!!!!
I have a meeting with him on Friday, I'll let you know how he is.

One thing I do know, is that he has three GSDs--I can't wait to see them!!!


And I agree with aly, let's focus on the good stuff now.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba


I am not trying to second guess you, I was calling him anyway about my dogs. I did just speak to him, and we talked about my dogs for a while ( I didn't mention a thing about Chewy or anything), and before we hung up, he asked me if I gave his name out to a girl in Williamsport. I told him yes, and he said he is getting back to you and your father very soon. He is going to evaluate Chewy, and he is great!!!!!
I have a meeting with him on Friday, I'll let you know how he is.

One thing I do know, is that he has three GSDs--I can't wait to see them!!!


And I agree with aly, let's focus on the good stuff now.

:D :D :D :D :D :D LOL, I told him someone named Emily gave me his name and number but I didn't know her last name. Hee hee

Ash

[lovemyshiba]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


:D :D :D :D :D :D LOL, I told him someone named Emily gave me his name and number but I didn't know her last name. Hee hee

Ash

He figured us out!!!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Ash, I am so sorry to hear about your decision. I know this is a very tough time for you. I will keep you, Chewy, and your family in my thoughts and prayers.:(

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by lovemyshiba


He figured us out!!!

LOl smart man :D tell me how it goes on Friday Good luck! Thank you Sarah it means alot to know you support me.

Ash

[Jessica12345]

Originally posted by aly
Lets concentrate on the good. Chewy will be evaluated and may have a chance now.

YAAAAAY!

hoping for the best!

[oodlesofpoodles]

i know i will make some people mad but attaching another dog and attaching a person (which the dog knows) are two different matters in ga if you give a dog away knowingly that is human aggressive whether you tell the person that is getting the dog or not tell them if the dog bites and injures the person you are still liable. lawsuits. we have seen a lot of dogs at our clinic that sweet adorable babies then change for no reason several come to mind brutus rottie mix played with him since he was 6wks old never had a problem came in for baths almost everyother wk always running to me licking kissing one day he did as always i was hugging when he all of the sudden started growling lunged at me hitting me in the face and knock me back 6 feet into the wall broke my nose then he started growling at everyone the owners have chosen to keep him enough he went after their grandchild. then there omar a springer spaniel went after another client that was in the office for no reason this dog is older has growled and lunged at some of my other employees people he is used to. brutus was 2yr 145lb omar is 7yr 55lb. i think that ash has to make her own decision and what ever the decision is should be supportive of it. i personally will not keep a dog up that has started attaching or biting people for no reason. i know a lot of you will be mad at me but looking at it in a legal point of veiw i cant afford to be sued. also i wouldnt want it on my concince that i knowingly gave a dog away that was aggressive and then it harmed someone i dont think i could live with it i also dont think putting the dog in a pact is the thing to do if he is animal aggressive if you do you are asking for a major blood bath this is not humane either. sometimes we have to make decisions that we dont want to but have to i am not one for putting an animal down for no reason. but when it comes to aggression i personally will not own one. now if one of my poodles attacks for no reason after the 10day guaranteen they will be put down but if is protecting me from harm that is different and if i offend anyone i am sorry but responcible pet owner ship is what this is all about. so many breeds get a bad reputation due to one or two dogs. there was a list a few years back the cocker spaniel was the nbr one biting dog 1 in 10 but the rottie is the most feared it was rated 1 in 200 will bite like i said it is all about being responcible my heart goes out to ash and chewy and i wish them all the luck and no matter what her decision is everyone should be supportive on it. thats it for me i hope that i did not offend anyone.

[Aspen and Misty]

Thank you oodlesofpoodles. I just wanted to add here, as I think I forgot to mention it before.

Know what springer rage is? Its where the dogs eyes glaze over and they attack someone for no reson and they have no idea what they did and they completly loose controlle, well thats atleast my understanding of it. I beleave that Chewy has some thing like springer rage. His eyes glaze over and nothing will stop him from biteing. I don't personally think this is a behavioral problem I think it is a genes problem type of thing. I will be consolting with my vet to see if there is a test he can do or if there are any medicines which can help him, I asked the otehr vet who Chewy saw once and he said no, and now that I think about it I never asked my vet so I'm going to ask him. I thought that might help you more understnad our problem, now we are going to still go to the trainer.

Ash

[oodlesofpoodles]

in my 1st post i did say it could be medical i think by checking with your vet and checking with a trainer is a good thing and like i sd no matter what your decision is you have my full support and you are in my heart and prayers take care and let me know you can email me if you want. take care.

[wolfsoul]

i think springer rage is like something i read about before...i think its called rage disorder or something of the sort...i read that springer spaniels and solid coloured cockers are prone to it...i dont know much about it though...ill look it up...

[wolfsoul]

ah ive found some info! :D here we go, ill probably get more soon...i was gonna just copy it out onto the post, but its too long...ill just give u the addy

http://www.essfta.org/aggression.htm

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx, that was interesinting. I didn't know much about it but now I feel like I know more. :D Always love to learn.

Ash

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by oodlesofpoodles
i know i will make some people mad but attaching another dog and attaching a person (which the dog knows) are two different matters in ga if you give a dog away knowingly that is human aggressive whether you tell the person that is getting the dog or not tell them if the dog bites and injures the person you are still liable. lawsuits. we have seen a lot of dogs at our clinic that sweet adorable babies then change for no reason several come to mind brutus rottie mix played with him since he was 6wks old never had a problem came in for baths almost everyother wk always running to me licking kissing one day he did as always i was hugging when he all of the sudden started growling lunged at me hitting me in the face and knock me back 6 feet into the wall broke my nose then he started growling at everyone the owners have chosen to keep him enough he went after their grandchild. then there omar a springer spaniel went after another client that was in the office for no reason this dog is older has growled and lunged at some of my other employees people he is used to. brutus was 2yr 145lb omar is 7yr 55lb. i think that ash has to make her own decision and what ever the decision is should be supportive of it. i personally will not keep a dog up that has started attaching or biting people for no reason. i know a lot of you will be mad at me but looking at it in a legal point of veiw i cant afford to be sued. also i wouldnt want it on my concince that i knowingly gave a dog away that was aggressive and then it harmed someone i dont think i could live with it i also dont think putting the dog in a pact is the thing to do if he is animal aggressive if you do you are asking for a major blood bath this is not humane either. sometimes we have to make decisions that we dont want to but have to i am not one for putting an animal down for no reason. but when it comes to aggression i personally will not own one. now if one of my poodles attacks for no reason after the 10day guaranteen they will be put down but if is protecting me from harm that is different and if i offend anyone i am sorry but responcible pet owner ship is what this is all about. so many breeds get a bad reputation due to one or two dogs. there was a list a few years back the cocker spaniel was the nbr one biting dog 1 in 10 but the rottie is the most feared it was rated 1 in 200 will bite like i said it is all about being responcible my heart goes out to ash and chewy and i wish them all the luck and no matter what her decision is everyone should be supportive on it. thats it for me i hope that i did not offend anyone.


It is VERY hard to read your post. Can you please word your senteces in a easy to read way? Thanks!

[Twisterdog]

It is VERY hard to read your post. Can you please word your senteces in a easy to read way? Thanks!

I agree. No offense intended, oodlesofpoodles, but if you use capital letters, punctuation and paragraphs in the future, it would be much easier for us to read.

I usually just skip posts without paragraphs and punctuation, because it's just too painful to try to read. I'm sure there's good information in a lot of those posts, but I just can't bear to atttempt it.

[Twisterdog]

Am I reading this correctly .... $350 per hour? $350 PER HOUR!?

*Twisterdog faints dead away on the floor ... *

I absolutely cannot comprehend paying ANYone $350 per hour for ANYthing! And I personally don't know of a single person who could afford to do so!

Ash, are you sure it's $350 per hour? If so, and if your dad is willing to do this for you and Chewy, I can assure you that your dad is a kinder, more generous and caring man than 99.999% of people on this earth. NO ONE can say you and your dad aren't trying and doing everything possible for this dog is he is willing to spend $350 per hour to try and save him. Honestly, I couldn't pay that for one of my dogs, no way.

I find it mind-boggling that anyone would have the nerve to charge that much for anything, no matter how good they are at it. And I find it even more mind-boggling that people would be willing to actually pay it! WOW.

[DoggiesAreTheBest]

Twisterdog, when Drake, my GSD/Wolf Hybrid, was showing signs of aggression, we went to a behaviorist who specializes in Hybrids and aggressive behavior. We paid $300.00 and hour. We met once a week and I had to drive over an hour and a half and take half a day off of work every Tuesday for about 4 months! We see this behaviorist once every 2 months now. Drake has benifitted greatly from our sessions and we only do for "preventative maintenance" for the lack of a better word.

Was it worth it? Absolutely!! We are fortunate to have had the means to pay for this. If we hadn't had the money, I would have sold anything that I had that would bring in that money for Drake.

[Sudilar]

As I've mentioned before, when we first adopted Shiloh, she had a nipping problem (not even biting, just nipping, no aggression). In the process of setting up a meeting with a behaviorist, at $200 an hour, Shiloh corrected it herself.

If this were a medical problem, would you spend $350 to help save your dog's life?

[lovemyshiba]

This trainer is going to see Chewy once, for a FREE evaluation. The eval is anywhere from 30-60 minutes, and during this time, he likes to get to know the dog, and the owners.
After that, it is entirely up to the owner if they want to continue with him. He gives no pressure.
I am taking my dogs there on Friday, for our initiation--just for basic obedience. He said that if I don't like him, or his area, or anything, there will be no pressure to take his class, or anything.
Since it is FREE, I think Chewy can at least be offered this.

[Pam]

Twister dog I have to agree with you. It really bothers me that anyone charges this kind of a fee! Good grief! Lots of things these days are overpriced but this is just gouging people. My thought is that they are preying on the 'last ditch efforts' of their patrons who are at their wits end and will agree to anything. Ash I have to commend you for going ahead with this. I think you and your folks are heros - it's just these outrageous fees that make me mad. I am a little skeptical about these people's (in general) desire to help people. It sounds too much like a money thing. Just my humble opinion. :mad: :mad:

[Sudilar]

Emily states that the first evaluation is free. Can't beat that price.

[oodlesofpoodles]

Originally posted by Twisterdog


I agree. No offense intended, oodlesofpoodles, but if you use capital letters, punctuation and paragraphs in the future, it would be much easier for us to read.

I usually just skip posts without paragraphs and punctuation, because it's just too painful to try to read. I'm sure there's good information in a lot of those posts, but I just can't bear to atttempt it.


I hope this is better. I hope that my future post will be easier to read. Sorry for not being better on the composition. As I said I did not want to offend anyone. But I guess I did. Sorry

[Aspen and Misty]

We are at least going for the first evaluation, I mean hey its free, and I get to meet Emily so who can beat that? I can't wait but I'm also worried he won't beleave me Chewy is agressive, I mean I'm not lieing at all, I would never make it up that Cheyw has agression problems, but he is sooo sweet outside of the home, he's a perfect angel out at the pet store and Lows. I know he will be good when we go to the trainers. I feel bad I left out one of the most important things when I talked to him, the fact he doesn't know whats going on or what he is doing when he bites. Well, I'm exited we might be able to solve my darling Chewy's problems, I know he is a sweety and really wants to be good and he is so smart I think he will catch on quickly.

Ash

[robinh]

I will keep you in my prayers as you go through this hard time. I do hope this consultation will be the answer to your and Chewy's problem.

From reading I feel this whole thing has been difficult for you and I don't know that I would agree with everything, but I do want you to know that I'm thinking of you and of Chewy.

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by robinh
I will keep you in my prayers as you go through this hard time. I do hope this consultation will be the answer to your and Chewy's problem.

From reading I feel this whole thing has been difficult for you and I don't know that I would agree with everything, but I do want you to know that I'm thinking of you and of Chewy.

Thank you for thinking about us, it means a alot to us.


I just called Mr. Jones who said tha lessons are only $350 for 6 weeks, not a week, for all the weeks. I didn't correct you earlyer because I wasn't sure but now I know and I wanted you to know that it is for all the weeks not per week :D

Ash

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
I just called Mr. Jones who said tha lessons are only $350 for 6 weeks, not a week, for all the weeks. I didn't correct you earlyer because I wasn't sure but now I know and I wanted you to know that it is for all the weeks not per week :D

Ash

That's great!! Much more affordable!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Sudilar


That's great!! Much more affordable!

Definitly, or else we would be going broke :eek:

Ash

[delidog]

Yeah!!!
I'm beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel!!!!

Chin Up Ashley!!!!!
Good Luck Ashley and Chewy!!!!!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by delidog
Yeah!!!
I'm beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel!!!!

Chin Up Ashley!!!!!
Good Luck Ashley and Chewy!!!!!

Half of me says :D and the other half says :( . I'm so worried about what the trainer is going to say and what my parents and sister are talking about behind my back, which I just found out is going on. :rolleyes:

Ash

[Karen]

You know we are ALL hoping for the best possible outcome for Chewy ... we'll be waiting with baited breath for what the trainer says. That's excellent news on the price, so much more affordable! Whew!

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Karen
You know we are ALL hoping for the best possible outcome for Chewy ... we'll be waiting with baited breath for what the trainer says. That's excellent news on the price, so much more affordable! Whew!


I know. you guys have been showing how much you love Chewy since the begining. As soon as I get home you guys will know what he said, so anytime around 9 or 10 (eastern time) I will be posting what happened and how it went.

Ash

[lovemyshiba]

Wow--that's great!! The price, I mean.
I really really hope something can be done--it's starting to come together now....
Ash, I have to work on 4 at Saturday:(
What time do you think you will be coming??

[Twisterdog]

If this were a medical problem, would you spend $350 to help save your dog's life?

Of course I would, how absurd to even ask that. I also wouldn't hesitate to spend $350 for a series of training sessions.

What I said was that there was no way on this earth I could afford to pay $350 per HOUR for training. Let's assume the dog has a serious behavior problem (obviously, or the owner's wouldn't be at this point), and it take ten hours to correct the problem. That's $3,500 ... don't know about you, but I don't have $3,500 laying around.

Not everyone can afford $350 per hour for dog training. If you can, hey, that's great. But I personally feel that if a pet owner cannot possibly manage to pay $350 per hour for training or $350 per chemotherapy treatment or whatever the case may be, that this does not necessarily make them a rotten person. It makes them an average, working-class citizen trying to make ends meet.

[tikeyas_mom]

I think your dog might have distemper from what you are discribing :( it is sad because they are fine intill they bite once then they get it in their head that they are in controll.. My malamute had distemper she had to be put down because she bite my lil brother *he was 5 at the time* .. maybe goto the vet and get a blood test dont to your dog.. Good luck ...

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx, I know if it was $350 an hour I would not be able to offord it at all, that would be crazy. I will try going to the vet and getting a distemper done on him maybe thats whats wrong, although no one has ever let Chewy be above them, maybe we weren't speaking Chewy and we need to learn how?? I dunno, what ever it is we will find out whats going on.



Originally posted by lovemyshiba
Wow--that's great!! The price, I mean.
I really really hope something can be done--it's starting to come together now....
Ash, I have to work on 4 at Saturday:(
What time do you think you will be coming??

O that stinks :( we will be coming down inbetween 3 and 5 so no time to visit I guess :( next time maybe?

Ash

[Sudilar]

Originally posted by Twisterdog


Of course I would, how absurd to even ask that. I also wouldn't hesitate to spend $350 for a series of training sessions.


Twisterdog is speaking of my quote:

QUOTE:
If this were a medical problem, would you spend $350 to help save your dog's life?



That was a RHETORICAL question.........not directed at ANYONE in particular. :D

I was referring to a $350 evaluation, not on-going treatment. Yes, if it were $350 per hour for a long time, most people could NOT afford it.

QUOTE:
If this were a medical problem, would you spend $350 to help save your dog's life?

rhetorical question
n.
A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect.

MEANING:
No answer necessary....OF COURSE we all would.

[Sudilar]

This book might be helpful, if not, at least interesting:
The Culture Clash by Donaldson
http://www.sitstay.com/store/books/understanding1.shtml

[aly]

I've read the Culture Clash and it is an incredible book. HIGHLY recommend it!!!!!

[Cookiebaker]

Originally posted by aly
I've read the Culture Clash and it is an incredible book. HIGHLY recommend it!!!!!

Can you give a brief on what this book is about??

[luckies4me]

I LOVE sitstay.com

That is where I make my pedigrees for my rattery. :D

[aly]

Originally posted by Cookiebaker


Can you give a brief on what this book is about??

She covers so much wonderful information, I don't think I could do it justice with my own words. But I'll try...

First, here's part of the Foreword:

The Culture Clash depicts dogs as they really are - stripped of their Hollywood fluff, with their loveable 'can I eat it, chew it, urinate on it, whats in it for me' philosophy..... Relentlessly, she champions the dog's point of view, always showing concern for their education and well being.
...The Culture Clash cuts to the chase - no if's and no but's - here's the story - now educate your dog!

She talks about anthropomorphism (people giving human characteristics to dogs) and misconceptions about dog behavior. She talks about aggression and how people think there are dogs who will bite and dogs who won't bite. She says this is a misconception and every dog has the potential to bite and we should always remember that. She also mentions how aggressive behavior does not fracture relationships in dog society - its all taken in stride. She says the problem is that it often changes things a great deal in dog - human relationships and we often execute dogs who bite .. which is the culture clash.

I sorta paraphrased the beginning of her aggression chapter a little. There's wonderful information about socialization and bite thresholds too. And thats just one chapter!

Its an amazing book that I recommend to any dog owner.

[aly]

Here's a review of it that might give you a better idea:

http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/cgmagazine/cultureclash.htm

[Aspen and Misty]

:D Thank you for the book, sounds intersting!

Ash

[RubyMutt]

I haven't been on here in awhile and just read this thread. I'm so sorry you and Chewy are going though this! I really hope things work out this weekend. Good luck to the both of you! My thoughts will be with you. I'm sorry not everyone has been very supportive. I can't imagine how you feel, you obviously love Chewy and I can tell that you are trying to do what's best for him. I'm sure you and the trainers know what is best for Chewy before anyone else would. Again, good luck this weekend, I hope everything works out for the best!

[Twisterdog]

I think your dog might have distemper from what you are discribing.

I highly doubt Chewy has distemper. Distemper is a most often fatal disease with a relatively short time period between first symptoms and death.

Distemper is also one of the diseases dogs are vaccinated against when they receive their puppy shots and annual booster shots.

[Aspen and Misty]

I thought he had shots that kept him from havin Dsitemper.

I would also like to add, and this is very important, I only get to suggest what heepens ot Chewy, and I have alot fo say in it because he is my dog but my parents are the finaly decision making people, if they deced on somethign that is what goes. I was aloud to go to the trainer because they said it was ok and in the begining before all of the suggestions my parents are the ones who said he HAD to be put to sleep, I try to convince them of other things but sometimes they are just trying to do what si best for there family, like before when they said we were putting Chewy to sleep cause he was "dangerous".

Ash

[oodlesofpoodles]

There is also several other books that are great. Several are written by Carol Lea Benjamin, They are listed below

1. Mother Knows Best
2, Dog training for Kids
3. Dog Problems

She is a renowed trainer and is in the front ranks of American dog trainers today. The books "Dog training for Kids ' and "Dog Problems" have won the Dog Writers' Association of America Awards. She also writes a monthly column "Dog Trainer's Diary" for the American Kennel Club Gazette.

Then theres the four time Olympic gold medalist Greg Louganis, his book "For the Life of Your Dog" is great. He talks about matters concerning choosing a new dog, basic care, and specific health and behavioral concerns. In this book he includes cures for chewing, barking, biting and other so-called behavior problems. Answers to the great housetraining disputes-including the pros and cons to crating. This is also a great book.

If you decide to purchase any of these books, I think that you will be very happy with all the information that is in them.

Good Luck!! :) :) :)

[Rooroo]

HI I'm new...

I am so sorry to read what you've been going thru.. I'll be praying that everything works out great for you and poor chewy...

Seems to me ... you have been a great owner and have tried very hard to work with Chewy...

I hope you are able to correct the problem!!:(

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx. :(

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

Well. I think its time I've told you all......

My parents changed there minds. I swear to god I was tottally and still am totally against it! I told them John could help him and that there was no reson to be doing this. I told them that he could be helped and that with a little bit of love and dicipline he could have been saved. But they said he was dangerous and that he could bite one of us kids or a visitor. So I told them to send him to a foster home, they can work with him and help him and then he will have a nice home and will be sent to a nice home when he is ready. My parents said they couldn't oford a law suit. i told them Molly and Miek woudl take him and they promised not to sue us and that no one would eve know if he bite them but they said again, what if he hurts them badly and have thousands of dollars in hospital bills, you think they wont sue us? And I said yes and they laughed. I have been telling them there is hope since Wednesday when they told me I had to haev him put to sleep. I told them he can be saved, I swear to god I didn't want this to happen, you have to beleave me please please please. Well, my dad made the apointment friday morning and Chewy was put down yesterday at 8:00. May he rest in peace. He was such a sweet boy and I hope he understnads I had nothing to do with this. I also hope he can forgive me. Forgive me for ruinging his life, for making him turn out this way
I also hope he can forgive me for being such a bad mother, I shouldn't of ever let him turn mean. I should have known he would of bite Abbey, I should have removed him from the room, I was stupid and its all my fault. I'm sorry I didn't tell you yesterday about this, or even on wednesday. I havn't been and still aren't emtionally stable to handle the comments I know that you guys will say, although I swear to god I would have given my life to save him. I loved him, and thats all I can say, I really did and now he is gone :(

Ash

[Stenograsaurus]

Rest in Peace, Chewy!!!! My heart is breaking for you, Ash. :(

[Pam]

Ash I am so sorry for you. I can hear the pain in your post. It's over and done now and Chewy has probably already made some new friends at the Rainbow Bridge. Please don't be so hard on yourself. Life is often hard and this is one of those hard, hard times. RIP Chewy.

[Karen]

Oh dear Ashley, you tried your hardest. We know you did your best, and that Mugsy (Molly and Mike) would have tried, and that you worked as hard as you could to save him. But as you are a child, your parents have the final say, and we know it is not your fault.

Chewy, beautiful troublesome heartbreaking boy, we know you are happy now at the Rainbow Bridge, and will be waiting there for Ashley someday. If you haven't yet met my beloved Sheba, find her, she'll show you the way around the place, and she'll find my Mom, who will have extra treats for Chewy in her pockets, okay?

Big hugs to you, Ashley, for doing your best.

[Aspen and Misty]

Thanx everyone.

Karen- I'm sure Chewy is sitting at the feet of of your mother beggining her for treats. I do hope one day we find ourselves at the the rainbow bridge together once again hand in paw.

Thank you for saying nice things, I really am not emtionally stable to hear some of the things that people think about me. I really tried, I honestly did. You can ask Amy (wolfq) Who I cried to on Wednsday night and gave me some great tips on how to convince my parents, although I still think hitting them with one of her big books, which never arrived by the way, would have been fun, I know they made a decision that they thought was best for there family.

I'm crying again, although I havn't stopped since Friday at 8,
Ash

[tatsxxx11]

My heart is breaking for you Ashley. Thank you for trying so hard to help dear Chewy. We love you and want you to remember that Chewy will always be remembered with great love by all of us Pet Talkers.http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid36/pf64844de538def3c921092c3a00f58c1/fd2526d1.gif

[tikeyas_mom]

omg I am soooo sorry Ash .. We are all with you at this time ..I hope you understand that it wasnt your fault.. You couldent do anything. It was your parents choice and I am sure they are sad to . You will be together one day .. Again I am soo sorry that happend.. :( .. -cry- .. Great dogs have gone but are never forgotten. http://www.milwinkennel.com/poems/graphics/angel.jpg

[primabella]

oh tikeyas mom that is a beautiful picture

:(ash, i am so sorry about this. heaven has recieved another angel. you did all you could, and i am sure what happened was for the best. rest in peace sweet chewy, you are greatly missed :(

[tikeyas_mom]

primeabella youll like this next pic I bet ..

http://www.siriusweb.com/Tess/angel.jpg

[KYS]

Ashley,
I am so sorry. We all know how hard you tried.
Chewy will always be in our hearts.

[wolfsoul]

:( im sorry :(
RIP chewy

[lovemyshiba]

Oh, Ash, I had no idea.
I am so sorry that it had to happen this way, but ultimately it was up to your parents.
I know you are hurting, and it is painful, but I just KNOW Chewy is at the Rainbow Bride enjoying himself--it was the best decision for your family.
I hope Chewy finds Spike, my parents' beagle from when I grew up, he'll show him what to do, and introduce him to my grandpa, who will shower him with affection.

[Aspen and Misty]

I'm sure Chewy is up there right now enjoying himself being bad as always, LOL, he was always such a bad bad boy :D but I woudlnt' of had it any other way. His love made up for everything he has ever done wrong.

Thank you everyone for your nice comments.

Ash

[Kfamr]

I think i'll hold most of my comments back.... Sorry Chewy, poor boy. R.I.P sweetheart.:(

[COCatMama]

:O
Chewie looks so sweet in your pic, I can't believe he was vicious...poor Chewy :((((((((((((

[tomkatzid]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I think i'll hold most of my comments back.... Sorry Chewy, poor boy. R.I.P sweetheart.:(

Our sentiments exactly :mad: :(

[COCatMama]

mine as well...

[kohala]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I think i'll hold most of my comments back.... Sorry Chewy, poor boy. R.I.P sweetheart.:(

Agree, except for one comment:
When adults have problems, it seems like the kids and pets suffer the most - animals sense and react to stressful environments, and all too often their behavior problems are a direct reflection of our own.

[anna_66]

Oh Ash, I'm soooo sorry. I knew when you pm'd me back, that this is what your parents had decided. I can't quit cryinghttp://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/sad/azcrying.gif I just knew there was a reason I had the dream I had about him. Sounds weird I know, but alot of times my dreams have meaning, and most of the time it's not good. Again, I'm sorry that you had to let go of Chewy. Please know that my Keisha will be there to help him with his transition to the RB. I'm here if you need to talk.
Your friend
Anna

R.I.P. Sweet Chewy

[Tina]

Ash,
I just wanted to say I'm so sorry to hear about Chewyhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/traurig/sad-smiley-059.gif May poor Chewy rest in peacehttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/engel/angel-smiley-030.gif

[RockyRoad]

Ash, I am so sorry about Chewy. I saw the poem to Chewy in your profile online on Friday, and I could not stop crying. I bet Chewy is making tons of friends on the RB, he might even have a girlfriend. Maybe he is watching you through the clouds saying "I love you, Ash."
R.I.P. Chewy

[ChrisH]

:( Rest in peace dear Chewy.

Chris & Bob

[RubyMutt]

I'm so sorry for your loss :( :( RIP Chewy :( :(

[tomkatzid]

Ash,

I was just wondering, why did you have to give Tiffany up after 2 months.

Katz

[tomkatzid]

Ash,

Did you ever ask Mike if you could get her back?

Katz

[lizbud]

Rest in Peace Chewy.:(

The Life and Death of an Untrained Dog
Courtesy of and Copyright © 1994, Robert J. Hoffman
Humane Society of Ventura County, California
email: [email protected]

I woke up one morning with my littermates. I saw Mom lying there so I went over to get some breakfast. Mom was warm and she licked me all over. She loved us so much. Things were good back then. Now I am bigger and live in a home with two kids and their mom and dad. I used to be able to come in the house and play. They even let me sleep in the house. The children would run and I would chase them around. When I was little they would let me jump on them and even playfully bite them. The family would laugh and encourage me to play like this. They gave me lots of toys such as socks, shoes and stuffed animals. I had so much fun. Those were the days.

As I got bigger, I would accidentally knock the children down. I would try to bite them on the cuff of their pants as they ran. I found toys like the ones my master gave me when I was younger, and I would chew them up. They started getting mad at me all the time. When I jumped up they would knee me down. One minute they were laughing at me for play biting and chewing and the next minute they would spank me for doing the very same thing. I am so confused!

Now I spend my days, hour after hour, chained in the back yard. No one comes out to play with me. I am so happy to see them when they come out that I jump and bark with joy. I spend my days digging up the yard around me, which makes my masters mad at me. The fleas crawl all over me, which drives me crazy. I get so mad that I want to bite someone.

The more I sit out here the madder I get. I cannot understand why they brought me home just to chain me in the yard. If my masters are unhappy with my behavior, why not train me? Why did they encourage me to jump and bite?

Things have not gotten any better for me. Now I sit in jail. People come by my cage looking at me. I do not trust them so I bark and bare my teeth. No one wants me. Oh, no! Here comes a lady with a leash. Where is she taking me? She walks me into a room. Oh she likes me. It's so good to be hugged again. She puts a thing around my mouth so I cannot bite. What's this? She is sticking me in the leg. Oh, I am so sleepy. What has happened to me? I am asleep now. NO ONE CAN HURT ME ANYMORE.

[kohala]

Originally posted by lizbud
Rest in Peace Chewy.:(

The Life and Death of an Untrained Dog
Courtesy of and Copyright © 1994, Robert J. Hoffman
Humane Society of Ventura County, California
email: [email protected]
NO ONE CAN HURT ME ANYMORE.




Yep.:( :mad: :(

[micki76]

Originally posted by lizbud
Rest in Peace Chewy.:(

The Life and Death of an Untrained Dog
Courtesy of and Copyright © 1994, Robert J. Hoffman
Humane Society of Ventura County, California
email: [email protected]


Amen. Bye Chewy. :( :( :(

[lovemyshiba]

such a sad story.......
unfortunately the true lives of soooo many dogs:(

[Crikit]

OH Ash

I'm so sorry to hear what your parents did. You did everything you could for Chewy but like most things, there's always someone with just a tad more power and they will always over rule. May Chewy RIP.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by lizbud
Rest in Peace Chewy.:(

The Life and Death of an Untrained Dog
Courtesy of and Copyright © 1994, Robert J. Hoffman
Humane Society of Ventura County, California
email: [email protected]

I woke up one morning with my littermates. I saw Mom lying there so I went over to get some breakfast. Mom was warm and she licked me all over. She loved us so much. Things were good back then. Now I am bigger and live in a home with two kids and their mom and dad. I used to be able to come in the house and play. They even let me sleep in the house. The children would run and I would chase them around. When I was little they would let me jump on them and even playfully bite them. The family would laugh and encourage me to play like this. They gave me lots of toys such as socks, shoes and stuffed animals. I had so much fun. Those were the days.

As I got bigger, I would accidentally knock the children down. I would try to bite them on the cuff of their pants as they ran. I found toys like the ones my master gave me when I was younger, and I would chew them up. They started getting mad at me all the time. When I jumped up they would knee me down. One minute they were laughing at me for play biting and chewing and the next minute they would spank me for doing the very same thing. I am so confused!

Now I spend my days, hour after hour, chained in the back yard. No one comes out to play with me. I am so happy to see them when they come out that I jump and bark with joy. I spend my days digging up the yard around me, which makes my masters mad at me. The fleas crawl all over me, which drives me crazy. I get so mad that I want to bite someone.

The more I sit out here the madder I get. I cannot understand why they brought me home just to chain me in the yard. If my masters are unhappy with my behavior, why not train me? Why did they encourage me to jump and bite?

Things have not gotten any better for me. Now I sit in jail. People come by my cage looking at me. I do not trust them so I bark and bare my teeth. No one wants me. Oh, no! Here comes a lady with a leash. Where is she taking me? She walks me into a room. Oh she likes me. It's so good to be hugged again. She puts a thing around my mouth so I cannot bite. What's this? She is sticking me in the leg. Oh, I am so sleepy. What has happened to me? I am asleep now. NO ONE CAN HURT ME ANYMORE.



OH my, this just made me cry. How very sad. :(

[shais_mom]

First off, Ashley I am so so so sorry about your loss. Very Heartbreaking. You tried your best. Chewy will know that you loved him and will wait for you at the Rainbow Bridge. You can't be held responsible for your parents decisions. And I hope that the people that are saying "I think I'll hold of my comments back" are aiming them at your parents and NOT you b/c it isn't your fault. When I was your age
a)my parents wouldn't let me have a dog
b)wouldn't have given a dog NEAR as many chances as your parents would have.

Godspeed, to the bridge Chewy! May you rest in peace, eating treats and dreaming of things to Chew on!!!

[popcornbird]

OMG Ash! I am soo sooo soooooo sorry! :( Its NOT your fault! Please don't blame yourself!

I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. We didn't have internet connection for two days, but I swear Chewy was in my thoughts the whole time, so much so, that on Thursday night, I had a dream..........errrr..........nightmare about him. :( In my dream, I looked out my window. It was a bright sunny morning. All of a sudden, I heard the barking of a dog, running. It was a scary bark. A scary sound. I looked out the window, and it was Chewy. He ran to our house and was biting people left and right. He bit all the neighbors, and then her grew. He kept growing and growing until he grew to be as tall as our two story house. I was terrified, but the Giant Chewy howled sadly at my face as I peered through the window. It seemed that the neighbors that were bit called the police. All of a sudden the police came and put him to sleep before my eyes. I screamed, I yelled, I said WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?! That's Ashley's baby! STOP!" But they didn't listen, and Chewy was put to sleep. I woke up in cold sweat, terrified, and shivering. I don't know why, but after this dream, I thought Chewy had left us, and God was telling me that through my dream. Now I come to PT after I get my connection back and its true. I just want to cry. :( I can't even imagine what you are going through. Losing a pet when it wasn't even a natural death, or accidental. I'm so sorry. :( Its not your fault. I have no clue how vicious he really was. I am just so sorry. Words cannot express my sorrow. :( Bye bye Chewy. RIP We'll miss you. I hope you know your mommy loved you and I hope you forgive your family. :(

[Jessica12345]

popcornbird: :eek: :(

Im soooooooooooooooooooo sorry ash! :( I cant beleive this! Its not your fault.:( Im very glad you tried to save him

R.I.P. Sweet chewy baby:( :(

[Logan]

Ash, I spent an hour reading this whole thread last week. I cried for Chewy, I cried for you, then I smiled, hoping that he was going to get the help he needed, but I didn't choose to post at that time. I think you have had a most mature attitude through this whole thing, understanding that people weren't pointing fingers at you so much as they were giving their passionate thoughts and hoping for Chewy to have a second chance. But as Aly and many others said, it would have been very difficult to place Chewy in a shelter or rescue group as he was a known biter. Most organizations are overflowing with dogs that don't have Chewy's problems. And I know your hands were tied, with your parents having the ultimate decision. Please don't be angry with them for having to make the decision they did. I know that they must love you a lot and wouldn't want to hurt you for the world. It had to be terribly hard for them. :(

Please know that I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I'm so proud of all the people here who tried to think of every way possible to help you out (Emily, Molly and Mike, Aly, others).

Chewy is safe and happy now, and you are left to grieve. We all grieve with you. :(

Logan

[Aspen and Misty]

I really don't want to bring this thread up for people to post on again, but I wanted to say thank you to all of you for yoru nice comments. I really did love him and I still cry myself to sleep everynight. I probly will not be on pet talk much as every tiem I come on here I feel like my heart has been stabed with a knife over and over again and I become sick to my stomach. I miss him so much. I miss the way he bounced around, and I even miss his evil attitude, I just miss him. I havn't the heart to clean of the momaroial we made for him on our counter, so its still up there and is as pretty as ever. I sleep with his hedgehog and die when I'm not holding it in my arms. I really wanted to save him, I really did, and I would have given ANYTHING to have helped him, but my parents are the athority. ::sigh::. I can't wait to get older, that way I can get a dog who I'm comfortbale with and whom I am willing to help out. I really loved him, I really did.

Thank you Shaismom.

Lizbud- I wanted to state that Cheyw was never locked up or tied up. People knew the risk they ran when they came to our house. I would have never elft Chewy outside. He had to wear a sweater if we went for a walk more then 15 mins cause then he would just start to shake cause he was so cold. We never encouraged bad behavior either. From the day he was brought into my life he was not aloud to bite and there were rules that had to be followed. I did work with him and I trained him, he was a very smart and knew alot more commands then some of the dogs I have met. Now, it is true Chewy Chewed, lol. But he never got mroe then a talking to, in a calm, but firm voice of "Chewy No, or Chewy no Chewing" we never hit him or we never abused him. I never even was ab;e to stay mad at him for more then a mintue. Chewy slept on my bed till the night before he had to be put to sleep and on his last day he was aloud roam of my brothers bedroom. We also spent his last night playing in the back yard and eating lots of treats. He was not once in his life un loved nor was he ever beatin. I might come off as a cold heartless person, btu I loved Chewy no matter what anyone says, and if I had a choice right now I would be on the floor cuddling him and sleeping on his fat tum tum.

Ash

[lizbud]

Aspen and Misty,

The poem was an allegory and not meant to be taken literally,
and no, I don't think you are a bad person.

[sammi]

Ash, like I said in my email the other day I finally finished reading all the posts! Please don't be upset with your parents - they had to make a tough call. I think you did everything that you could to help Chewy and this was a on going problem for sometime. Maybe you have helped Chewy be at peace with himself- I just don't think he could help his behavior. He didn't want to bite people/dogs either. Sometimes people or animals chemistry is just not normal. I hope things take a turn for the better in your life.