Gertrude Janeway, a civil war widow dies

[Paul]

   Gertrude Janeway, whose only husband was a Union soldier and a paroled POW, has passed away. The US civil war ended in 1865.


Civil War widow Gertrude Janeway dies at age 93 (http://www.tennessean.com/obits/archives/03/01/27889583.shtml?Element_ID=27889583)
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD Associated Press
with a photo of John & Gertrude Janeway.

The BBC includes a photo of the Janeway's log cabin: Last Yankee war widow dies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2677095.stm)


A Love Story: John Janeway and Gertrude Grubb (http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilcivilw/scrapbk/janewaystory.html)


      Paul

[COCatMama]

ummm is that even possible!?!?! she wasn't born until what, 1907???!?!

[COCatMama]

oooh this makes it make sense:

Bedridden for years, she died Friday, more than six decades after the passing of John Janeway, who married her when he was 81 and she was barely 18


but like, EWWWW 18 and 81?? blecchh

[Miss Meow]

I read the article. Apparently he was 81 and she barely 18 when they married!!!

ooops, you just beat me Lalania!

[Twisterdog]

Oh my .... that is rather strange.

I suppose he was a very wealthy civil war veteran to get an 18 year old to marry him when he was 81! Yikes!

[Paul]

   Gertrude Janeway said she married for love. I choose to believe her.

   John Janeway asked to marry Gertrude when she was 15. They married when she was 18.

      Paul

[popcornbird]

18 and 81?!?!?! :eek::eek::eek:
OMG!

Suppose the 18 year old girl's mom was 39, her grandmother 60, and her great grandmother 81. Its very possible saying everyone on married by 20-21. HE COULD BE HER GREAT GRANDFATHER! Ewww. :eek: If that happened to me, I'd rather die!

[COCatMama]

yeah and ppl made fun of Anna Nichole Smith marrying that old geezer cause HE had money haha and she was waaaayyyy older than 18 too sheesh

[Paul]

   If John Janeway was an old mangy pet that no one else wanted he would receive sympathy and people would believe Gertrude's story of adopting him out of love at first sight. Shouldn't an old man get at least as much respect?

      Paul

[Twisterdog]

Paul, I think our different opinions on this come from the fact that we're commenting from the woman's point of view ... and you from the man's. ;) Because to 99.99999% of 18 year old women (or 40 year old women, for that matter!) the thought of ummmm ... intimate relations with an 81 year old man is just .... well ... not very pleasant!!

[COCatMama]

TD: not to mention disappointing ;)
Paul : think on it like this, would it be okay to you for an 81 year old woman to try to marry a 15 year old kid? (Ms. Janeway was 15 when the old geezer was trying to get with her)

[Paul]

   Generalizations don't work. I would not say, "well, I am coming from a man's point of view which is pure love. Not a women's point of view requires youthful physical beauty."

   Perhaps, I am the only one to believe Gertrude.

      Paul

[Nomilynn]

This makes me SO sad.. she loved him so much she never married again? Can you imagine.. set aside the age difference.. you are married to the person you love more than life itself, and your time is cut short. Too short. And you loved so deeply you would rather be alone than with anyone else. I'm sorry, but I'm crying.. what a beautiful woman she must have been.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I, too, thought it a fantastic story. It was a different time and place. Her father died at 69 -- Gertrude was 13 and her brother 1. Obviously older man married younger woman.

Gertrude was disabled -- in a time when that could be a sentence for loneliness.

And it was a love match. Maybe not what I would chose...but a fascinating look at history none the less! A world long gone.

[Logan]

I'm glad you shared this, Paul. I look forward to reading the links you posted.

Now that I have read all three links, I think this says it all:

The single question left for Gertrude is this: Why did a pretty young girl marry such an old man in the last years of his life?

Gertrude is quick to answer that one. She doesn't blink. She doesn't even have to think about it. Her eyes flash and her face beams. "I loved him, I adored him," she said.

I think those that are questioning this story really need to look at the situation these folks were in and try to understand. This is a very rural area of TN, and I don't think such age differences were even questioned then. I think the whole story is just beautiful! Thank you, Paul. :)

[mugsy]

Interesting stuff. I guess love knows no boundaries. I wouldn't ever do that, but, like was said earlier, if she never married again, it had to have been for real. I'll have to tell my kids at school that one. I came home sick today, so I'll do it tomorrow.

[lynnestankard]

I wouldn't think her husband John had lots of money - look at the three room house where they lived - I think she honestly loved him because after he dies she never married again - and she was a young woman of 28 with her own home - she probabley had offers, but the fact she remained true to his memory is so touching. He was obviously her all - so a lot of people find the age gap disgusting - it's nothing to do with anyone else - it was their choice.
In this day of easy come - easy go - I found this whole story wonderful.
Thanks for the link Paul.

Lynne

[Twisterdog]

Generalizations don't work. I would not say, "well, I am coming from a man's point of view which is pure love. Not a women's point of view requires youthful physical beauty."

No, no, no ... that's not what I meant at all ... what I meant was, in this particular case ... the man is 81 and the woman is 18. So, sure, the men are going to think this is a great deal ... he gets the sweet young thing. And the women are thinking, "Not for all the tea in China would I do that!"

If the tables were turned, and the woman were 81 and the man was 18, I'm sure the women would be saying, "You go, girl!" and the men would be saying, "Eeewwwww!!!!"

Interesting to note, I think, that we do often hear about young women marrying much older men .... but very, very rarely do we hear about young men marrying much older women. (I remember one very old movie star who was married to a very young man, but I can't remember her name.) So ... can one say that in general women are more likely than men to marry their true loves without regard to age or physical appearance?

And, she may very well have married for true love, no one knows but her. If she did, great. Hey, if she didn't, great. She made an old man happy during his last ten years, and got a house out of the bargain.

I wasn't bashing her, or him ... I was just being a smart mouth. Can you tell I'm a "bit" of a cynic about the whole "true love at first sight" thing? ;)

[Karen]

Ah, but Twisterdog, no one said it was "love at first sight" - after all, he first asked when she was 15, and then waited three years until she was 18. Lots of MARRIAGES these days are over in less time than those two waited to marry.

I think that this story shows that love knows no bounds. If she says she loved him, I believe her, and who can explain love?

May-December marriages occur in both directions, we hear about the older man, younger woman ones more often, but that does not mean the opposite does not happen.

I am 24 days OLDER than Paul, and he married me anyway! :)

We often see animals that other people might think unlovable, but we at Pet Talk love them.

[Twisterdog]

Hey, I told you ... I'm a cynic!

Twenty-four DAYS! Oh, my ... what a scandal! ;)

My brother-in-law is 15 years older than my sister, and my step-grandfather was 11 years younger than my grandmother ... and she still outlived him! :)

[Paul]

   To me it did not matter which spouse was male and which was female.

      Paul

[popcornbird]

I still think its weird (and gross). Ok, she may have loved him, but she was a small little teenie tiny child compared to him! He was an old old man soon to die, and this young girl had her whole life ahead of her. She could have loved him as a grandfather, or great-grandfather, but as a husband? Yuck! Personally, I wouldn't get married at 18 in the first place, and at 21, I wouldn't even get married to someone in his 30's. It might be just me, but I don't like such age gaps, because they usually think differently. (But this is not even an age gap, that's a 3-4 generations gap! :eek: ) It may not have been a big deal to marry older people in that time, but 18-81 has been abnormal since the creation of mankind. Maybe 20-30 or 20-40, or even 20-50 would be acceptable in those days.....................but 18-81? I don't think so. Paul, you are thinking with a man's point of view. WE think from a girl's point of view. Girls don't care about men as much as men care about girls. You can't even get a child from an 81 year old man, can't raise a family, can lose him any day as he's in the end of his life, and would have to live an entire lifetime of loneliness. I also think its gross for an 18 year old girl to think of an 81 year old "grand-daddy" as a husband. In that picture, it looks like he posing with a child, with his granddaughter! :eek: Again, MY opinion. I wouldn't marry an 81 year old if I was 60!

Karen, 24 days is nothing. Same age. 18-81 is a 4 generation gap.

[Karen]

Popcornbird, why do you think physical age means so much to you? It obviously didn't to Gertrude!

Of all the men I have ever known and been friends with, Paul is the most logically minded and capable of being neutral about things. Did he ever once say "What a great deal for that man?" No. So why do you assume that's what he was thinking?

Love is exceptional. That means it makes exceptions for all sorts of things, whether or not you, or society as a whole, understands!

I have known young-minded 90-year-olds, and old-minded, close-minded 18-year-olds. Haven't you?

[popcornbird]

I'm not assuming Paul takes it in that way. I meant that men normally wouldn't think of it as big of a deal as women would. I know that there are many people with large age gaps and make wonderful couples, however, 18-81 is just TOO much.

[lynnestankard]

(quoted from Popcornbird.....but 18-81 has been abnormal since the creation of mankind. Maybe 20-30 or 20-40, or even 20-50 would be acceptable in those days.....................)

Hate to disagree PCB but back in the dark ages it was THE done thing for old men to marry young women. I know you're not christian but even Joseph was an old man when he married a very young girl called Mary. And this is not just a Christian 'thing' it happened through all religions, colours and creeds - a man had to work and prove his worth and by the time he could afford to marry - he was old.
I'd be so interested to hear your views on this when you reach 30!

Lynne

[Edwina's Secretary]

Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.

As for "not able to give her a child".....try the actor Jack Lemmon. He fathered children recently and I believe he is in his 80's.

As for history...I encourage you to read about some of the US presidents....Grover Cleveland -- married his ward, Tyler -- after his beloved wife's death he married a VERY young woman and had 12 children with her.

Love is strange and unpredictable. Judge not, lest you be judged!

(BTW...my husband is 3 years younger than me...

:) )

[ramanth]

What an endearing story. Thank you for sharing it Paul.

It wasn't uncommon for arranged marriages of younger women to older men back in the days.

Love really knows no bounds. :)

[Logan]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.

As for "not able to give her a child".....try the actor Jack Lemmon. He fathered children recently and I believe he is in his 80's.

As for history...I encourage you to read about some of the US presidents....Grover Cleveland -- married his ward, Tyler -- after his beloved wife's death he married a VERY young woman and had 12 children with her.

Love is strange and unpredictable. Judge not, lest you be judged!

(BTW...my husband is 3 years younger than me...

:) )

Excellent analogy, Sara, exactly what I was trying to say, but I didn't do it nearly as well. In fact, in one of the articles, she said she had a 5th grade education, but still was an avid reader. I truly believe that the time and location paid a huge part in this. She certainly sounded like a happy woman in her interview. :)

And by the way, I married a man 5 years younger than I am!!! :o

[Dixieland Dancer]

I think it is great to know you were loved that much! There was a guy who I went to school with who had some outward physical blemishes that made most people not even want to look at him let alone fall in love with him. I was his friend and he had a very sweet personality.

Several years after we graduated I got a letter from him thanking me for being his friend and how hard it was for him day in and day out with people sneering and making fun of him. Then he invited me to his wedding! He was marrying a lady 9 years older than he was! He explained how she loved him for who he was not what he was!

They have been married over 20 years now and have children and are in as much love now as they ever were. It is an inspiration to see them together! Why do we feel the need to catagorize people because of their looks or age? If you encounter one true love in your life (no matter the age) then you are truly blessed in this life.

Many people marry today out of lust and physical attraction and then are divorced a year later or continue in a miserable relationship. What benefit it this to life???? Give me the true love relationship anyday!! WAY TO GO JANE! I'm sure your true love was waiting for you when you got to the bridge!!!! :D

[sammi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
[B]Popcornbird -- first you must look at this in its historic context -- NOT through the eyes of a teenager in 2003 with a world full of options and possiblities.

The average life expectancy was 47 years, only 14% of US households had a bathtub, most women only washed their hair once a month, and the third leading cause of death was diarrhea.

She was disabled, her father (who sired a child at 68!) had died. As the oldest child she would have been responsible for her mother and younger brothers. We can assume she was not well educated and had limited opportunity for education.

She meet a man who was willing to court her and wait two years, with whom she could sit and talk for hours, who was willing to help support her widowed mother and brothers. She was a lucky woman indeed.


I have been thinking about the age gap also and I think the above hits the nail on the head. I think they really loved each other and it was not strange in that time. I think that if she would have been older (say 20) when they first started courting many of us would not have thought it was so odd. But I do think in this day and age if anyone of you had a daughter around that age (say 14) and a man in his 80's was intersted in her romantically that would send off a alarm. But, that was a whole different time.
A very good friend of mine just lost her husband at ?age 83 -she is around 49. They were married for aver 20 years. I have a relative that has been in a long term relationship with a gal who is 12 years older than him.

[popcornbird]

I understand that things were different in those days and I know that people used to marry with huge age gaps (like 20-50, or 20-60) but I never once imagined that it would go as far as 18-81. Maybe it wasn't such a big deal back then, but its really really weird now, even for people in tiny villages were girls sometimes get married as young as 13, to men in their 20s or 30s, but 18 to someone in his 80s is awefully strange. I understand that she loved him etc, but I find it hard to believe how a young girl can love someone old enough to be her great grandfather, as a husband (not as a person because that is different............I love many old people). Anyway, it was her life and that's what she chose, so fine, but as for me, I would never ever ever do that!

[boscibo]

It may be unusual (the age gap) but it still happens today. I know a couple, the woman was 18 and the man was 60 when they met. It was a very good relationship, they married, and they are truly happy. The girl I knew is pretty, popular, and not disabled - she just wanted somthing different then most of the immature and unstable men who were in her own age range. I'm not saying all young men are immature and unstable, but a lot of younger men are.

They travel, can afford nice things, and really love each other. I don't think it is gross, it raises a few eyebrows but they deal with it and explain why they are together.

The only bad part is she will still be so young when he passes on.

[HoRsELUvR]

whoa.a few years apart,i can see.but they were 70 some years apart.that's just scary.

[Twisterdog]

The only bad part is she will still be so young when he passes on.

That's very true. My sister is 51, and my brother in law is 66. He is retired, she is still working and will be for another 14 years. He is starting to feel some aches and pains and age-related problems, she is still in great health. They have been married for 24 years, but it is getting more difficult for them as they age. My sister is realizing the age difference more and more.

And, Popcornbird, for what it's worth - I agree with you: it may have some historical precident, but it's still yucky!! ;)

[mugsy]

I guess I don't see the big deal, but, I'm 7 1/2 years older than Mike, so to me age is just a number, and stranger things have happened. At least they're together again and happy.

[Tanya&Fritz]

Originally posted by boscibo
I'm not saying all young men are immature and unstable, but a lot of younger men are.

Oh, does this change when they get older? :D

I'M ONLY JOKING!!!

[boscibo]

Originally posted by Tanya&Fritz


Oh, does this change when they get older? :D

I'M ONLY JOKING!!!

Sadly, some men never grow up. My SO is in his late 40s (I'm 37) and guess what he wants to buy? A new Corvette! I want something sensible like a Jetta, we already have an older 'Vette, but he wants a new one. I told him we can't haul dogs in a Corvette!