Does this bother you too?

[COCatMama]

For some reason, It really burns my uhhh ears when I see a family with 4958495 skin kids and not one single bird/fish/hamster/cat/dog/pet rock. It makes me reeeeeealllllly sad. I was raised as an only child in a single parent home and tho most of my childhood was spent in apartment type dwellings we ALWAYS had pets of SOME kind, even tho my mom has allergies! We had budgies, fish, and I had several hamsters at different times. Then we moved out to the 'burbs and I finally was able to have the dog I had always wanted! I got my first dog when I was 10 years old. I am TOTALLY mystified by people that don't like animals at all, I have to wonder what kind of people they are :( being afraid of a dog or cat is a different matter entirely mind you....

[Cookiebaker]

Lalania, I would much rather see people being responsible in that if they don't have the time/money for pets that they don't get them. Furthermore, I am not convinced that children having pets is the best thing. If the parents don't have time to supervise the care of the animal, are you going to trust a typical 7 or 8 year old to remember to feed/groom etc etc. properly? Neither of my parents were "pet" people, and they didn't allow us to have anything besides fish & hermit crabs. :rolleyes: But I respect their decision and know that when we were younger we didn't have the money that is necessary to take the dog to the vet's etc. etc. So don't let it make you mad, but just respect other people's decisions that they know what is best for them.

[COCatMama]

children are way way way more expensive than a hamster or budgie, both of our budgies were given to us by the family of an elderly woman who was going into a nursing home. I don't believe in people having kids if they can't afford for them, I mean one is one thing, but around here there are ppl on welfare that have like 3 + kids in ratty shoes and clothes, really makes me mad!!!! Juneau costs considerably less than a human kid would, and at this time I choose to have no children because a. I'm not married and b. Can't afford one.
I *DO* agree with you that smaller children should always be supervised with pets, absolutely! but I believe the best way to teach a child respect and kindness towards animals is to have one and to be VERY strict about how they treat the animal. I used to babysit my friend's sons, and I would not allow them to even kill ants or flies or any insect. When my friend got cats those boys were *so* gentle with them it was a beautiful thing. It warmed my heart to see Jayeson curled up on the couch with one of the cats purring away.aaaawwwwwww still brings a tear to my eye :D.

[COCatMama]

Well said PPB, also I feel that there are SO many unwanted animals that so desperately need a loving home out there, heck for that matter skin kids, people should think twice about having a huge family of bio kids. Myself, I would be perfectly happy with a house full of animals :D one day I will have that!! somehow! and Juneau will finally have a playmate, or 3 ;)

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I believe that the best way to teach a child responsibility, is by getting them a pet. .

My Friends family got there 8 year old Daughter a dog, A pretty little Sheltie girl to help her learn responsiblity. The dog, now 8 years later, lives its life outside tied to a dog house, only gets feed once or twice a week because its the daughters dog not the parents, so they feel she should feed her not them, Great way of teaching her responsiblity. I'm not sayign all cases are like this, but sadly there are, because pets are a good way of teaching responsiblity they feel the child should have a pet. Before any parent gets there child a pet tehy need to understand a pet is a life not some tool to help a child learn.

Ash

[HoRsELUvR]

I everyone should have the companionship of a trusty animal, as long as they can offer it a good home

[COCatMama]

umm that sounds like animal neglect to me! if one of my 'friends' treated their pet like that, I wouldn't be their friend anymore....
My dog sleeps on pillows, is free fed (that means constant access to food) sometimes he even gets *filtered* water, lol. I am not a perfect dog parent, probably don't comb him as often as I should, sometimes sneak him some human food etc.

Your friends ought to punish that kid for not treating that animal better and it's unfair to the dog to not feed it just because their kid isn't doing it, they should literally take the kid by the hand, make her scoop the food and give it to the dog.

My mom sure as heck didn't rely on me as an 8 year old to totally look after an animal all by myself, we looked after my hamster and budgies and fish together. Even when I was 10 I did not have total responsibility for my first dog! We both fed and walked him and stuff.

[Karen]

My own sister's children have grown up without pets. My sister is very allergic to cats, and has been her whole life. Her house is too busy to keep a dog happy, and she is also now allergic to them - in fact to anything with feathers or fur. Sigh. And as she and her husband both work full time, and have between them about 35 piano students as well, and until a year ago, my sister was taking classes toward her Master's, they made the decision that it would be best not to get a pet that couldn't be properly taken care of. That would not be a good lesson for their kids.

I respect that, (though I do hassle the heck out of her for that). But their kids have experienced the rest of the pets in the family their whole lives - my nephew used to refer to my parents' house as "GrammaGrandpaGracies!" (Gracie was the Great Dane.) And if, when she grows up, my niece did not inherit her Mom's allergies, I KNOW she'll get a pet - maybe a bunny or a kittie or a doggie. She has wished for all of them at one point!

[COCatMama]

Like I said, my mom was a single parent who btw worked and was not on social assistance, she paid all the bills ALONE..no family nearby to help out. she got a lousy 150 bucks a month or something for child support from my biological father. My mom is deathly allergic to cats *and* dogs and has a sneezing fit around Juneau but loves him anyway. Your sister could get one of those ghastly looking hairless cats or one of those crested whatsits...those ugly/cute dogs. or a pet fish? reptile? I believe if you have time for children, you have the time for a small pet. or a Chia pet??? hehe. I could not imagine not having an animal in my life, yuck!

[moosmom]

Your sister could get one of those ghastly looking hairless cats

:eek: :eek: :eek:

AHEM!!!! Ghastly looking hairless cats??? I'll have you know that although MooShoo MAY not be beautiful on the outside to SOME people, he's the most loyal, loving (Aside from my beloved Bubba :( ) cat I've been owned by. Ever hear the saying "DON'T JUDGE A BOOK BY IT'S COVER?????

How can you make that kind of off-the-wall comment?? :confused: :confused: :confused: I suppose you also think that all bald people are ghastly too.

[COCatMama]

I was mostly joking...altho I do think hairless animals DO look rather odd, and in no way was I attempting to make a comment on the behaviour/personality of your pets, I'm sure they're awesome. And as I have stated before I think all living things are beautiful in their own way.
I have heard hairless animals are less likely to trigger allergies in humans. If i offended you in some way, I do apologize.

[toughCookie]

I think kids should have pets. but thats my opinion. its up to them, maybe the kids have allergies, like my nephews, so they couldn't have cats or dogs, but had gerbils, and have a snake.(yuk)
I think it's up to each person/family,it doesn't make me mad or anything, I too, feel kind of bad for the kids!
I know someone that is going to get a dog when they can get the certain kind from the breeder, has to be a small, non-shedding dog...and I was thinking oh for goodness sakes, get the kids a big slobberly DOG!! ( not a toy ) LOL

[Karen]

Originally posted by Lalania
I believe if you have time for children, you have the time for a small pet. or a Chia pet??? hehe. I could not imagine not having an animal in my life, yuck!

Any plants given to my sister die within a month, from lack of water. Would you wish that on an animal? She is currently recovering at home from surgery, and called me to say someone sent her some very pretty African Violets - and how sad she was that the person had unknowingly sent them to their doom! (I told her maybe her daughter, age 8, could be taught to water the poor things.)

She is a grown person, a responsible person, and manages a lot. Tell you what - once YOU have children, ( and in her case two jobs) then you can argue whether that automatically makes you have time for a pet! And by the way, it's the skin - the dander - that causes allergies, not the hair itself.

To each his or her own decision. I honestly believe that.

[Uabassoon]

FOr some reason I seem to never be able to keep plants alive. I try so hard, but somehow they always quickly go to the plant rainbow bridge. I think with a plant I always think, we'll I'm on my way out so I can water it later and it won't make a difference. But if my cats need water then I do it right away because I know they need it then. I always had pets as a kid, I really didn't have too much of the responsibilities, but it taught me how to be patient and gentle.

[Uabassoon]

Oh and.. I think if I ever decide to have children I would have a cat. Because I've read that having cats when children are young are less likely to develop allergies and asthsma.

[COCatMama]

spider plants are hard to kill :)

[Uabassoon]

I thought so too until my spider plant died.

[moosmom]

I was just joking. I've had people tell me he's ugly. I don't really take offense. I think he's pretty cool! If he didn't have such bad eyes because of a herpes virus due to neglect from his breeder, he'd look alot different, but still hairless. I think he's very unique and wherever I take him, he gets ALOT of attention. He's a people magnet and he loves it.

[Uabassoon]

I've always thought sphynx cats were cute. Granted they are a little strange looking, but I still think they are cute. I'd like to own one someday, they are supposed to have great purrsonalities.

[toughCookie]

Because I've read that having cats when children are young are less likely to develop allergies and asthsma.

not true, my nephew had bad asthma when he was very young, and allergies to cats, and they had a cat in the home, had to give it away :(

Lalania, it would be wonderful if all children could have cats and dogs, and whatever other pets, but it is just not possible in alot of cases, situations. I don't think it's reason to get mad at people because they choose to not have pets.

I used to think hairless looked odd too, but, now I don't think so.when my mom first saw Cassie, she said "that's the ugliest cat I ever saw!" (not hairless but looks different from the others)
but it didn't take her long at all to love her too.:) :D

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Lalania
umm that sounds like animal neglect to me! if one of my 'friends' treated their pet like that, I wouldn't be their friend anymore....

I know that it is neglect. The dogs name is Molly. If you go here http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18716 then you can read all about Molly's story.

Ash

[Aspen and Misty]

I am in LOVE with sphynx my sister wants one and I have to admit at first I was like Ummm NO. Now I am like lets get one! AWWW I just love them! They are so pretty!

Ash

[Uabassoon]

toughCookie, I didn't say they NEVER devlop asthma or allergies just that it is less likely. There are a few different studies that have been done on that. Here's one link from MSNBC

kids and cats (http://www.msnbc.com/news/718394.asp)

[toughCookie]

I wasn't arguing the matter with you, I was just telling you that it's not true in my nephews case. I didn't realize that it mattered to you. my nephew doesn't have a cat anymore and I don't have kids so...don't need to read the study.:)

[Twisterdog]

My parents don't have pets anymore, now that all the kids are grown. They let us have dogs and birds and fish when we lived at home, though. My parents love my dogs and birds, and like to come visit them, they are simply to the stage in their life where they'd rather not have pets to tie them down. They certainly got the pets for us kids, but they also made sure these animals were cared for, for their entire lives.

I think it is FAR, FAR worse for uncommited parents to get a pet "for the kids, to teach them responsiblity", than to not have a pet at all. What these parents usually teach their kids is that its ok to get a living creature, treat it well until the "new wears off", then either toss it in the backyard, let it die from neglect, or take it to the shelter. Every pet I've gotten "for my son", I was firmly aware that the responsibility was ultimately mine for the animal, him being a child and me being an adult. But there's a lot of parents that view "the kids' dog" they same way the view "the kids' bike" or "the kids' scooter" ... amusing for the kids for a while, but when they lose interest, it's just in the way and we'll get rid of it and get something new. These people should NOT have pets, they are doing their kids NO favors.

P.S. I LOVE Chinese Crested dogs ... I hope to get one someday. :)

[aly]

Originally posted by Twisterdog


I think it is FAR, FAR worse for uncommited parents to get a pet "for the kids, to teach them responsiblity", than to not have a pet at all. What these parents usually teach their kids is that its ok to get a living creature, treat it well until the "new wears off", then either toss it in the backyard, let it die from neglect, or take it to the shelter. Every pet I've gotten "for my son", I was firmly aware that the responsibility was ultimately mine for the animal, him being a child and me being an adult. But there's a lot of parents that view "the kids' dog" they same way the view "the kids' bike" or "the kids' scooter" ... amusing for the kids for a while, but when they lose interest, it's just in the way and we'll get rid of it and get something new. These people should NOT have pets, they are doing their kids NO favors.


AMEN SISTER! Couldn't have said it better.

[Cookiebaker]

Twisterdog, you said it so much better than I did. That is exactly what I was thinking!! Thanks.

[moosmom]

Right on Twisterdog!!!

[COCatMama]

IMO, People like that shouldn't have KIDS either!

[COCatMama]

Not everyone *wants* to have children, nor can everyone actually *have* children. Sorry to hear she is unwell but as I said before my mom was a single parent and did it on her own and had a MESS of plants and we had several birds/fish/rodents and then my first dog. And btw, I pay my own rent, and bills and have no BF/Husband living with me, My mom only helps me minimally as she has to pay *her* own bills all by herself. And with African Violets you have to make sure not to get water on the leaves as it kills them, pour the water into the dish at the bottom :). I do not work two jobs because I don't *need* to but I *do* work full-time. Next year I may go to night school a couple of times a week too. And I have heard hairless animals cause less allergy attacks and I am aware it's the dander that's a trigger, and NOT the fur. I believe some kinds of poodles are supposed to be good for allergic people? I can't remember.

I still maintain that if you can't afford one kid, you shouldn't keep having them. I only have one dog despite so many telling me to get another one, I can't afford food and vet bills etc for two dogs, and I was lucky to find a place to live that would allow Juneau. He is my only 'pet' and will be for a long time.


Originally posted by Karen


Any plants given to my sister die within a month, from lack of water. Would you wish that on an animal? She is currently recovering at home from surgery, and called me to say someone sent her some very pretty African Violets - and how sad she was that the person had unknowingly sent them to their doom! (I told her maybe her daughter, age 8, could be taught to water the poor things.)

She is a grown person, a responsible person, and manages a lot. Tell you what - once YOU have children, ( and in her case two jobs) then you can argue whether that automatically makes you have time for a pet! And by the way, it's the skin - the dander - that causes allergies, not the hair itself.

To each his or her own decision. I honestly believe that.

[COCatMama]

I just think it's selfish not to allow at least some kind of animal into your home, unless you are a really really busy person or the irresponsible type. But people that are irresponsible enough to 'throw away' a pet that's no longer 'new' or a cute puppy/kitten shouldn't be parents either!!!

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by Lalania
I just think it's selfish not to allow at least some kind of animal into your home, unless you are a really really busy person or the irresponsible type. But people that are irresponsible enough to 'throw away' a pet that's no longer 'new' or a cute puppy/kitten shouldn't be parents either!!!

I would not use the word "selfish"....not everybody WANTS or even LIKES pets. It is their choice if they want pets or not, and nobody has the right to call them selfish. I, personally, am GLAD to see people that have many kids NOT have a pet...most of the time the pet ends up being neglected or mauled...I HATE it when people get a dog "for the kids." If they seriously think a child can handle the responsibility of a dog, they are wrong. That's not to say that kids and dogs/cats/etc. can't be great together, and the kids actually love them...but the parents should know that they will have to do the real job of caring for the pet. The bottom line is, if the parents do not want a pet, and even if the kids do, and say they will take care of it.....the parents should not get the pet.

[Soledad]

I don't know about this whole line of logic. There are plenty of people who would call people who have 15 animals and no children "selfish" or "crazy", and this seems to be the opposite of that. Who cares? Just let people chose what they do and do not want in their homes.

[toughCookie]

Lalania

you call people who don't want pets selfish. does that mean that people that don't*want* (your words in your post) children are selfish?

I love to see children with pets too, and in general I think they should have them,but it is only my business in my own house, not others. some just don't want them, others may not be allowed to have them in their home or apt. maybe others can't afford them and the children, should the children go without something so they can have a pet? if it were me and if I had children, and they really wanted one, I would get them one if it was practical.

it is just up to each person, like Karen said, to each their own.:)

[Twisterdog]

I know many, many wonderful, caring parents who don't have any pets. They simply don't care that much about owning animals, but that certainly doesn't make them bad people, or bad parents.

I know many, many wonderful, caring pet owner who don't have any kids. They simply don't care that much about having kids, but that certainly doesn't make them bad people, or bad pet owners.

Everyone has things they care deeply about, and things they can take or leave. For some people their "thing" is animals, for some it's plants, for some it's kids, for some it's their friends or family. To each his or her own, I say. I don't think it's anyone's right to criticise others' likes, dislikes, desires or needs.

I personally don't have any house plants, I don't care about plants and don't want to mess with them. I don't think I'm less of a kind person for it.

However .... I DO agree that a LOT of people that have pets and/or kids shouldn't have them! And I also STRONGLY agree that if you can't afford to feed it, provide it with medical care and a good life, you should NOT have it .... whether "it" happens to be a bird, a dog, or a child.

[Soledad]

I think we get into dangerous territory when we say "only people who can afford it can have kids/animals". My entire family would be eliminated if that were the case. Poor people have enough crap in their lives without being told that they are not entitled to having children or owning pets. Being poor doesn't mean you aren't able to take care of basic needs. Being poor does not make you bad or less of a person or less entitled to a "normal" life.

Pardon me if I don't want to live in a world where only middle class people (who are overwhelmingly white) are the ones with children.

I might add that my grandmother was so poor she had to bathe and wash her animals in the same river. This was the environment my mother grew up in. But my grandmother was a mountain woman and a healer. She and my grandfather were lucky to make any money...they lived completely off the land. They had many animals and none of them went without. They fed their kids and their animals as best they could. My grandmother, too poor to afford anything, would still open her heart to sick and stray animals...nursing them back to health and rehoming them. She did this in the middle of the depression with EIGHT children.

Poor people are human beings, too. Sorry, but I get really upset and hurt by this sort of thing.

[toughCookie]

twisterdog, I totally agree with you!

and, til I got these cats around here, I had ALOT of plants. most did ok, but after I got Muffin and Cookie, I just didn't care for them the same, and had to keep them out of the cats reach, so I eventually gave them all away, or they just didn't make it, being put up where I kept forgetting about them. I do still have just a few now.

[COCatMama]

Like i said there are LITERALLY millions of pets that need homes and, for that matter, thousands of skin kids that need homes. I believe the decision to NOT procreate to be one of the ultimate SELFLESS decisions a person can make. There are WAY too many humans on this planet as there is, We do NOT need anymore and the Planet is well on it's way to dying from us breeding 'like rabbits' and raping it like we do.

Soledad, I did not mean to insult your family, my mom barely had two nickles to rub together too, but I always had food on the table, and a roof over my head and THAT is what matters. Your gramma sounds alot like my great-gramma, she was into nature too and my mom used to go berry picking and things with her when my mom was a kid, I wish I could live that kind of a life instead of this one :/ oh well.
I was referring to those who CANNOT feed or clothe or keep a roof over the head of their kids, stop at one kid if you can't even afford that one, why have more?!?! makes no sense to me. It was different for your gramma because of the Depression, nobody saw that coming, I have some relatives that lived through it too.

My beliefs/opinions are not popular, and I never claimed that they are..... And I have not made the complete decision not to procreate, but I am almost 29 years old and single.... and even if I did procreate someday I'd stop at one.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with feelings. It makes me sad to see some people with a fancy mini van and three little kids and not a single animal in their family.

[Twisterdog]

Soledad ... I didn't say only middle-class, white people should have kids. Sheesh, I didn't mean that at all!

I was talking about the people that can't afford to buy food, clothes and medical care for their kids at all ... and make no effort to do so. They just keep having more kids, and keep expecting the hard-working tax-payers to keep footing the bill for them.

A lot of my extended family is dirt poor. There's nothing wrong with being poor, there's no shame in working hard just to put food on the table. I was not implying if you can't afford a PlayStation2 and a new bike and private tutors for your kids you shouldn't have any. But I DO mean that if you aren't willing to get off your rear and get a job and work to feed your kids, you shouldn't have them.

[COCatMama]

Ahhh TD I could NOT have put it any better myself!!! By having children you are too irresponsible/lazy to look after properly, you are ONLY hurting the CHILDREN, not to mention society by moooooching off the taz payers, oy!

[Soledad]

I know nobody meant that only white, middle-class people can have kids. But that's the reality of saying "only people who can afford them should have kids". I know plenty of families that can afford the children they have yet are completely crap parents. Money is not a determinite of good parenting abilities.

There are plenty of people who have kids that are poor and weren't planning for it. I don't care if they scrape by, the important thing is that they love their children. If that means they have to collect welfare to spend more time with their kids as opposed to working some dead end job where they have to pay for strangers to watch their kids or even worse leave them home alone, then fine.

I think it's all very well and good that we feel we can tell poor people what to do and not do with their lives as we sit on our nice sofas and talk to each other online.

It's a great Christmas spirit thing, isn't it? I doubt Christ would have agreed with this attitude.

[Twisterdog]

I know nobody meant that only white, middle-class people can have kids. But that's the reality of saying "only people who can afford them should have kids".

I'm sorry, but that is not true. Everyone who is white is not middle-class, there are plenty of dirt-poor caucasians in this county. And likewise, there are plenty of very wealthy people of color in this country, too. I would find your statement to be offensive, if I were a person of color. It's rather demeaning ... like saying, "Unless you're white, you are going to be poor." That's so not true, at least in the USA and other modern countries.


If that means they have to collect welfare to spend more time with their kids as opposed to working some dead end job where they have to pay for strangers to watch their kids or even worse leave them home alone, then fine.

I disagree. Having children is like having a dog, or a car, or a big house, IMO ... if you can afford it, great, have one ... have three or four. If you can't afford it, then make plans and better yourself, work hard until you CAN afford it ... then have a kid or get a dog or buy a car. That's basic common sense to me ... if you can't feed it, don't have it. I work for a living. I'm a single parent. I have never taken a penny of public assistance funding. I support myself and my child. It was my choice to have a child, therefore I should pay for him. It wasn't anyone else's choice for me to have a child ... why should I expect other people to give me money for something I chose to do? We all need to take responsiblity for our own actions, and their consequences. Even if wanted to have three or four kids, (which I don't!), I couldn't afford to, and therefore I wouldn't have them. I wouldn't go ahead and have them and expect someone else to pick up the tab. How is that fair?


I think it's all very well and good that we feel we can tell poor people what to do and not do with their lives as we sit on our nice sofas and talk to each other online.

Well, first of all ... I worked hard for my nice sofa and my internet service. I earned the right to have these things because I have a job, and I bust my rear to earn enough money to live, and afford the things I want. I don't expect someone to hand them to me. If I earn the money, I have every right to reap the benefits of that effort. Secondly, aren't people who have child after child after child and can't afford them basically telling us what we can and can't do? You bet they are! They are telling us that we will pay to feed, clothe and educate their numerous children through our tax dollars. We have no choice but to comply. They are telling us what we will do everyday, as determined by how much of our disposable income goes to the government via taxes. I think if I'm forced to pay to raise someone else's six kids, I ought to have a say in the matter of whether they have two more.

Sorry to be harsh about this, but this is one of my big soap boxes.

[Soledad]

Twisterdog -

I am a "person of colour" as you put it, and I know the reality. Look up some statistics, racial minorities ARE NOT financially equal to white Americans. Of course people can get out of that (my family being an example of that) and of course some caucasions are dirt poor. My point was, that the MAJORITY of middle class people are white. When you make a rule dictating that only people of certain financial means can have kids, you are inadvertantly excluding a vast number of racial minorities.

That's really great that you've done what you've done with your life, but that does not mean everyone else can or has the means to do the same. You have to deal with the reality that not everyone in the country has the same value system or experience that you do, and therefore will make different decisions. But, let me ask you, do you think that people CHOOSE to be born into impoverished families? Do you think people CHOOSE to be disadvantaged from the get go?

Do you know why we pay taxes? So we can live in a decent society. That means sometimes we have to carry the weight of others so that we can all have a higher standard of living. Why is that a problem for so many people? Do you understand that we are all connected in life, and one person's misery can affect you? If some woman is busting her butt at some dead end job because of a welfare-to-work programme, and therefore cannot afford or get child care, do you realise how likely that child is to grow up to be either a criminal or a bum?

I'm sorry, but one of MY big soap boxes is when people are so focused on their lives that they can't see the BIG PICTURE.

[AvaJoy]

Originally posted by Karen
And by the way, it's the skin - the dander - that causes allergies, not the hair itself.

Dander is not associated with the skin, but rather it is the cat's saliva from grooming itself which dries and evaporates into the air that causes distress in allergy sufferers.

[Twisterdog]

But, let me ask you, do you think that people CHOOSE to be born into impoverished families? Do you think people CHOOSE to be disadvantaged from the get go?

Nope. I certainly didn't choose to be born impoverished and disadvantaged, but I was, nonetheless. I am not anymore. You can't choose where you start, but you can choose where you end up.



When you make a rule dictating that only people of certain financial means can have kids, you are inadvertantly excluding a vast number of racial minorities.

I can't make a rule dictating anything, neither can you, neither can anyone. Everyone is free to have as many kids as they want to, last time I checked. I just don't want to pay to raise other people's kids, I'm busy raising my own.



That means sometimes we have to carry the weight of others so that we can all have a higher standard of living. Why is that a problem for so many people?

Well, it certainly is a problem for me!! I do well to carry the weight of myself and my own child, I can't carry other people's as well. I don't mind helping someone out through a temporary bad time. We all have those. I DO have a problem paying my hard-earned money out in taxes to support someone their whole life, when they don't get up and get a job and make an effort. I certainly know I'm not alone in those feelings, either.


...people are so focused on their lives that they can't see the BIG PICTURE.

Oh, I do see the big picture, believe me. I guess you and I just see very different views of the "big picture." Such is life. I doubt either one of us is going to change the other's mind.

[aly]

Originally posted by Twisterdog


You can't choose where you start, but you can choose where you end up.

That is soooooooooooooooooooooooo true!

Twisterdog didn't make any racial comments. If you think about it, you can twist words and make anything offensive if you try hard enough.

[COCatMama]

TD: kudos to you for doing it on your own!! I know it's not easy! heck working just to support yourself and one dog is bad enough eh? ;)
hope your xmas was okay!!

[Twisterdog]

Lalania,

Our Christmas was good, thanks. All the doggies got chewies in their stocking from Santa Paws, even. :)

[wolf_Q]

You can't choose where you start, but you can choose where you end up.

It's not why you're running
It's where you're going
It's not what you're dreaming
But what you're gonna do
It's not where you're born
It's where you belong
It's not how weak
But what will make you strong

:D

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by Lalania
thousands of skin kids that need homes. I believe the decision to NOT procreate to be one of the ultimate SELFLESS decisions a person can make.
I for one, completely agree. I mean, why should I add yet another child to the world for selfish reasons? My husband and I are going to adopt when we have the financial means to do so...I know my opinion on adoption isn't popular and I really couldn't care less. Its what I feel is right, after all, I've seen first hand how many children are "thrown out" and need parents. I also know that we may possibly be adopting a child (or children) that are not white, like my hubby and I are. Many may think this is wrong (a few at our Thanksgiving table thought so). What's wrong is allowing these children to grow up without families...
Another thing that just annoys the heck out of me...people's oposition to ME saying that my hubby and I are going to adopt! You wouldn't beleive the negative response we've gotten! Amazingly selfish people...

I disagree. Having children is like having a dog, or a car, or a big house, IMO ... if you can afford it, great, have one ... have three or four. If you can't afford it, then make plans and better yourself, work hard until you CAN afford it ... then have a kid or get a dog or buy a car. That's basic common sense to me ... if you can't feed it, don't have it. I work for a living. I'm a single parent. I have never taken a penny of public assistance funding. I support myself and my child. It was my choice to have a child, therefore I should pay for him. It wasn't anyone else's choice for me to have a child ... why should I expect other people to give me money for something I chose to do? We all need to take responsiblity for our own actions, and their consequences. Even if wanted to have three or four kids, (which I don't!), I couldn't afford to, and therefore I wouldn't have them. I wouldn't go ahead and have them and expect someone else to pick up the tab. How is that fair?
Amen sister! I couldn't have said this any better!!! :) I agree totally and completely.

We all are in control of our lives....we have the power to change our circumstances AND attitudes.

[Soledad]

All I am going to say is that the vast majority of people here on PetTalk do not get raised in abject poverty and have to experience racism on a daily basis.

My family was dealt an extremely crap hand in life, but they have changed their fortune. But it wasn't easy and it's not something everyone can do.

I think poor people have enough problems without people pointing fingers at them and saying "well you deserve it because you made these bad choices".

And TD, you have not done it "all on your own"...no one has. We are all dependent upon each other.

[mugsy]

I'm not clear on why we are supposed to feel that we should help the poor even if they don't want to help themselves. If they want help and are willing to go out and try and better themselves, that's one thing, but to just wallow in this abject poverty accepting handouts from the government and sitting on their couches watching their big screen tvs (and YES, it happens...I've seen it myself) is something totally different. I am soooooo glad the Indiana made the law that 2 years on welfare and then you're done forever. But, are willing to train you for a career (at the government's expense) during that time.

[slleipnir]

That reminds me..When I was in grade..8 or 9?? Maybe 7..anywho, this girl from China moved her and my friend who was in her class tried to make her feel welcome by offering to do stuff with her, talk with her alll that stuff, one day we were walking to my house and we though how she'd probably love to see Josie, I went inside to drop my kit bad off, and Jo jumped outta the dog and ran to my friends all excited, the girl reacted TOTALLY the opposite way I expected, she started to scream and yell saying she was going to be eatten by Jo, I explained to her that she was extremely friend and wouldnt eat her, let alone even bit her, I showed her that I could put my hand in her mouth and without her doing anything but lick my hand. She still freaked out and stuff and said in china, dogs eat people or attack them..I guess not family pets at all..I totally didn't know that, either did my friends..I couldn't imagen life without a dog..I know a few of my friends would die for a dog, but can't..one's landlord won't allow it, the others father just doesnt want it..she had a dog once and came home one day and he had given it away..can you imagen?!?!?! I don't think I could forgive my dad if he did that to Jo or Zeke, then again he loves them almost as much as me, ALMOST :rolleyes:

[Twisterdog]

And TD, you have not done it "all on your own"...no one has. We are all dependent upon each other.

Oh, really? And you know this how? You don't know me, or anything about my life. Sorry, but you are quite wrong.

I put myself through college by working two jobs. I paid for every penny of my education myself. I pay for everything my son needs. I bought my own business seven years ago. My business and my home are now paid for, free and clear, because I worked hard to make it so. I don't work for anyone, I don't take anything from anyone. YES, I HAVE done it all on my own. I don't have anyone to rely on, and that's fine with me. I take responsibilty for myself. Everyone should.

I'm sick and tired of the "poor me, everyone owes me something because I had a bad childhood" attitude from people of my generation in the country. My response is always, "Yeah, well, so did I. Get over it." What ever happened to a work ethic? To taking pride and responsibility in one's own abilities? In trying to better oneself? In self respect?

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
I'm sick and tired of the "poor me, everyone owes me something because I had a bad childhood" attitude from people of my generation in the country. My response is always, "Yeah, well, so did I. Get over it." What ever happened to a work ethic? To taking pride and responsibility in one's own abilities? In trying to better oneself? In self respect?
This is sooooo common! I'm with you....what you live through and overcome makes you who you are....something to be proud of, not a hinderance. I've been there...and continue to "move on" and keep improving my life with hard work, persistance...all motivated by what I want to be and do. Life is wonderful, if you allow it to be.

[COCatMama]

I'm sick and tired of that attitude too...I absolutely hate it when people don't take responsibility for their own lives, like junkies that are like 'poor me, the government should give me money because I'm a drug addict." well duh, nobody FORCED them to take drugs! I grew up around LOADS of drugs and I don't do drugs! It's a choice you make, and you can't spend your life expecting others to hold your hand, geeeeeez

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Lalania
I'm sick and tired of that attitude too...I absolutely hate it when people don't take responsibility for their own lives, like junkies that are like 'poor me, the government should give me money because I'm a drug addict." well duh, nobody FORCED them to take drugs!

I agree with that statement 100%.(That's all I'm going to say, don't want to get holered at.) ;)

[mugsy]

Why would we yell at you for having an admirable trait. That's great that you have made that decision. I commend you!

[COCatMama]

yeah what mugsy said, why would I holler at someone for AGREEING with me? ROFL!

[Desert Arabian]

I meant that I didn't want people to flame on me, in case they would have mis-undestood my post. I can't remember what I was going to post, but I was afraid that some people would have taken it the wrong way. :confused: Since I noticed that happend A LOT through-out this thread.

On the topic of drugs: There is one boy in my school who has a HORRIBLE drinking, smoking, and drug addiction (he's not the only one!!!). He rarely does his homework, so he has F's in every single class. He is amazingly smart though, you'd never guess it by looking at him, but since I have 5 classes with him, I notice it. That is, when he wants to show it, and is awake to express it. If he would do his homework, stay awake, and stop his addictions, he would be an A student. That makes me so sad to see people who have such great potental (sp?), spoiling it all on drinking, smoking and/or drugs. Oh well, it's his decision, and he'll soon find out that it was a bad decision. :( :(

Moving on... :p

[mugsy]

Have you tried approaching this kid and trying to befriend him and try and make him see the light?? I hate to see kids throw away their lives like that.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by mugsy
Have you tried approaching this kid and trying to befriend him and try and make him see the light?? I hate to see kids throw away their lives like that.
I agree (again :) ), it only takes one person to care enough...I know it may not be "cool" at your age to befriend someone like this boy, but if it could make his life better...you have an amazing opportunity...especially being in 5 classes with him. You just may be a motivating factor in his life.

[mugsy]

Too true NM!! There is a story in Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul about a kid who was walking home and saw another kid (who was very unpopular) with all of his books and offered to help him (even though it wouldn't go over well with his football buddies) and ultimately befriended him. At graduation, the unpopular boy (who had since become pretty popular) was tops in his class and was giving a speech and revealed to everyone in attendance that the day the other boy had stopped to help him, he was planning on committing suicide, but that the boy's help made him change is mind. So, see....little things can make a huge difference. Also, if you do decide to take my advice (not that it's always very good!! ;) ) please realize that if he is going to change it will take awhile to happen.

[Desert Arabian]

I could try it...

[mugsy]

You never know. You may make a huge difference in his life and actually come out of it with a new friend. Go into it with an open mind. Offer to meet in the library to study for the next test or something like that. Give him a reason to WANT to come to school. Maybe the fact that he's lonely is the reason for the drugs, alcohol, and truancy.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by mugsy
Maybe the fact that he's lonely is the reason for the drugs, alcohol, and truancy.
I know we stated that people who takes drugs have a choice to do so. Sometimes its different with children/young adults. They may feel it is their only option to get away from whatever horrible things are happening in their lives. These children/young adults are the ones that end up like the person referenced in the Chicken Soup story Mugsy talked about. (not all, of course)

Please befriend this boy. You may never know the great impact you'll have on him. I mean, just imagine how his life is....you could be the ray of sunshine to brighten his day/week/month. Wouldn't that be great?

[Twisterdog]

mugsy, that's my favorite story in that book. :)

YellowLabLover ... I don't know if you are a girl or a boy .... but if you are a girl and you decide to try to befriend this troubled boy, please remember to only meet him in public places at first, ok?

Sorry to sound paranoid, but I have seen some bad things happen to kids I know, in similar situations.

[mugsy]

That's why I suggested the library to study for a test!! I'm definitely with you on the public places part.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by mugsy
That's why I suggested the library to study for a test!! I'm definitely with you on the public places part.
Yes! I agree....good point.

[mel55smiles]

little things would probally help!!
like saying hi when you pass him on the way to class, or talking to him about a bogus class assignment. he might start feeling like he is cared about and improve.

[Desert Arabian]

I am so slow and tired, that I had to read every post over and over again, before I finally understood them. :rolleyes: :p Yes, yes, I am friends with him (not too deep)...but I can tell you know matter how hard I try, there is no way under the sun, that I will ever get him to go to a public place to talk or to study for a test-he's never done that before!!! Just about everyone in the class encourage him to do better, especially the teachers. I am still learning some things about him, even tho we are in a lot of classes together, we hardly get to talk- since I am trying to learn (plus the teachers aren't the nicest when it comes to talking in class). Now that I recall it, I do believe he is in some kind of therapy type class for his drinking, I remember him telling me about that. Our vice-prinicpal (DEVIL!! :mad: ) is on his case too. The vice p. searches his locker everyday and once and a while he will get called down to the guidence office, and talks to his councelor. I think he might have some family issues that may be going on too, I am not 100% sure, but I think there might be. He's told me about his parents drinking problems, I think that's where he might be getting it from. Ok..too much thinking and typing, I'm pooped. (I saw The Towers today for the 4th time, I think that's what did it. lol). I'm sure I missed a lot, again, sorry...too pooped! :o *yawn*.

p.s. Twisterdog- I am a girl. LOL. :p :D

[Twisterdog]

p.s. Yellowlablover ... me, too. :)

[mugsy]

Give him some motivation to study for the test. Bake some cookies and tempt him with food. Guys NEVER turn down food ;) . Tell him you'll treat him to a movie or something that he likes (in a public place:) ) if he studies with you and gets a decent grade on the test. If his parents have drinking issues, they are probably NOT very interested in their kid's life.