Breeding a male red tri BC (Border Collie)

[Doug_FL]

I have a red tri BC. He has a beautiful coat and is a wonderful companion. Wants to be with me 24/7.
Is very easy to teach and get to do what I want. He even put up with me when I found 2 cats. Made
friends with them right away. He is fixed and was never bred. The next dog I get, I was thinking about
breeding him. This would just be for fun, I don't expect to make any real money at it. I wonder what
are some of the pitfalls involved in having an unfixed male BC?

I really like the reddish brown and sable colors on BCs and Aussies. I realize there is a pet overpopulation
problem. But, I don't believe BCs are part of that problem. I waited 6 months for a BC or Aussie, to be
given up at a county shelter. The first one, that was, went to a lady in management of the shelter.

BCs are high maintenance, I understand that. I have a dog park near where I live, otherwise I would not
have such an energetic dog. The red BC, I have now is 11. I hope he lasts another 5 years. But, sooner
or later I will need to replace him. My vet says go to a breeder. So, the question will be should I get him
fixed or not?

[pomtzu]

Please re-think your idea of breeding "just for fun". Fun for who???? - certainly not the dog or the puppies that could end up in a shelter. I am confident that I am with the vast majority of members here, who would place this practice at the very bottom of their list of priorities when it comes to our furry companions. There are thousands of dogs (BC's included - whether or not you want to admit it) that are euthanized every day, because there are no homes for them - yet you want to add to these numbers? If you are so BC crazy, perhaps you should consider volunteering to foster them, or work at a shelter near you. When you see the heartbreak day after day, of dogs longing for love and attention and a home of their own, then perhaps it will give you a new perspective on the life that these poor animals live, while waiting for that slim chance that they will leave the confines of that wire cage behind them. Please don't add to the misery by breeding - just for your fun. :(

[Karen]

If you are not planning on showing the dog, I would absolutely him fixed. Perhaps the reason you didn't see any at your local shelter is not that there are none out there, but that both Border Collies and Aussies have a very committed rescue community, who will pull them from shelters as soon as they get there, because being in a confined space for any period of time can drive a busy herding breed like them over the edge toward destructive behavior, and cause longer-term problems.

I just Google "Border Collie Rescue" and cam up with a whole page of Border Collie Rescue groups based in various states and regions - and that's just the first page.

Go to http://Petfinder.com and type in your zip code and you can look for what dogs are needing homes near you!

[Freedom]

As Karen said, the rescues group for both BCs and Aussies are staffed very committed people! Volunteers who love the breeds and know how to work with them.

Breeding for 'fun' is just nuts. A reputable breeder is going to do extensive genelogical work and have testing done on both sire and dam to ensure no genetic defects are present. A reputable breeder is working to improve the breed, and is actively involved with the breed group - either in conformation, or Agility, field trials, etc. A reputable breeder provides a minimum 2 years health guarantee and will insist that ANY puppy placed be returned to him if the dog cannot be cared for, at any time during the life of the dog. The reputable breeder has all this in the contract, and makes sure the contract is enforced! I've a FB friend enforcing a contract with a bichon puppy she placed in Belgium, and the people apparently got rid of the dog; she has hired legal counsel and is getting the dog BACK.

Are you committed and prepared to do all of this? Any reputable breeder will tell you, breeding is not a money maker; it is a big financial hole, and they are in it for the love of the breed and to better the breed. NOT 'for fun.'

:rolleyes:

[Doug_FL]

If you are not planning on showing the dog, I would absolutely him fixed. Perhaps the reason you didn't see any at your local shelter is not that there are none out there, but that both Border Collies and Aussies have a very committed rescue community, who will pull them from shelters as soon as they get there, because being in a confined space for any period of time can drive a busy herding breed like them over the edge toward destructive behavior, and cause longer-term problems.

I volunteered at a shelter, as a dog walker for 6 months. The problem there was too many Pit Bull mixes. Very few Borders Collies and Aussies came in. When
ones that did come in, would be adopted quickly. Other desirable dogs were adopted quickly as well. Like Golden Ret, Jack Russells, Beagles and other hounds.
It was the Pit Bulls, that had the population problem. Both the shelter adoption mgr and myself, worked with some rescue groups. We found them to be very difficult. Like the Ellen Degeneres and Mutts and Moms, issue that was in the media. One group I contacted, said I had to have a fenced in back yard, in order
to adopt a BC. They had many other requests, like a vet reference. I did not have a dog, at the time, so I would I have that? I gave up on rescue groups.

I plan to work with my vet, who has not discouraged me from doing this. I also want a BC, in the colors I like. It is my money and I should be able
to get what I want. My current red tri, is a dog a lot of people ask what kind he is and say what a beautiful coat he has. I give him an Omega 3 capsule
everyday. That makes his coat shine. He is a lot of fun and a big part of my life. I may have a mental breakdown when he goes. So, I will most likely get
another dog first.

[Lady's Human]

The vet isn't going to discourage you from doing this, the vet is going to make money off of this.

ANY puppy is part of the overpopulation problem, and it is utterly, completely irresponsible and classically narcissistic to breed an animal and add to the overpopulation problem. Animals are getting put to sleep every day because fools continue to breed more.

[Jessika]

Any breeding should only be done to benefit the breed on not only looks and temperament, but also genetically. If you don't know about genetics... you should not venture into breeding. There are also a myriad of medical testing that should be done PRIOR to any breeding to make sure that you are breeding a sound specimen and hopefully contributing TO the gene pool, not taking away from it.

Breeding should never be "for fun"... if it is, then you are just a backyard breeder. I hate to be that blunt about it, but breeding should be taken WAY more seriously than "I have an intact male, you have an intact female, let's breed them for puppies!!".

If you really are serious about this, I strongly recommend you look into some local border collie clubs in your area or online and reach out to some breeders there... and perhaps choose one to be your mentor.

Re: pet overpopulation...

You say that pit bulls are the problem when in the same breath saying that "other mixes like aussies, BCs, goldens, etc, were adopted out much more quickly". Well... of course they were... for every aussie, BC, golden, etc that was adopted out means that a pit bull puppy was passed up. ANY puppy bred, intentionally, unintentionally, responsibly or irresponsibly, is adding to the pet overpopulation... it does not matter what breed it is. If you're going to do it, at least be responsible about it and do it right or don't do it at all.

[Karen]

Jessika, I just had to post after you to say that I love your signature "passel of pooches" image!

[Jessika]

Jessika, I just had to post after you to say that I love your signature "passel of pooches" image!
Thank you!!!!! This is my "extended" fur family... my two aussies in the middle, my friends two aussies, my sister's pit mixes and my other sister's hound mix. Granted, I no longer have Charlie (blue merle with pricked ears in center) as he went to live with my ex... (I fought so hard to keep him, but, well...). We now have a "Bossie" (BC/Aussie) mix pup who isn't in the picture... but this is just my favorite group picture of the "crew". :)

[snakemama]

Agreed agreed and agreed...if you are serious about breeding, find a mentor in the breed...someone who has been in it a long time, who produces high-quality dogs of the type you are looking for. Start to learn about what health issues you should be testing the adult dogs for, what to look for in an excellent match, and how to assess the puppies. Spend a few years learning from your mentor and attending events like conformation shows and herding trials, and soak up all of the information you can. (I was going to just say shows, but I know that in the BC world shows are a highly volatile issue, and some excellent breeders wouldn't let their dogs within a mile of a conformation show) Learn about conformation, health, temperament, drive, the ethics of breeding, etc etc etc...and also make sure you have enough money set aside so that if the bitch needs a c-section or some such she can have it promptly.

The reality is that there is a LOT of work and not necessarily much FUN in breeding dogs. Be aware that no pairing is a guarantee of anything, even if you have done all of the appropriate health and temperament testing you have only stacked the odds in your favor, you haven't guaranteed a litter free from health or temperament problems. Br prepared to keep, or euthanize, or spend a lot of money treating any such anomalies that pop up in the litter. You also, even with the appropriate genes present, have zero guarantees of producing the exact color/gender combo you want.

Frankly, if you don't think BCs are part of the overpopulation problem, you haven't taken a close look at it. Go to petfinder.com and search for BCs in your area. TONS of people get these dogs thinking they will be nice family pets, and then discover that they are driven driven driven working dogs that need to be DOING something. There are a LOT of BCs and similar breeds in rescue. Red tri is not a common color in BCs but it is also not terribly uncommon.

This woman breeds corgis, but her experiences and her vivid writing style paint an excellent picture of what responsible breeding looks like: http://rufflyspeaking.net/category/responsible-breeding/

[Doug_FL]

Re: pet overpopulation...
You say that pit bulls are the problem when in the same breath saying that "other mixes like aussies, BCs, goldens, etc, were adopted out much more quickly". Well... of course they were... for every aussie, BC, golden, etc that was adopted out means that a pit bull puppy was passed up. ANY puppy bred, intentionally, unintentionally, responsibly or irresponsibly, is adding to the pet overpopulation... it does not matter what breed it is. If you're going to do it, at least be responsible about it and do it right or don't do it at all.

All puppies from the shelter were adopted fairly fast. The main overpopulation was adult Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes. I volunteered at only 1 shelter. Although
the adoption mgr, also said he was keeping an eye out for a BC, at the 2 other shelters in the area. The Human Society and ASPCA Shelter. They had the same
thing going on. Small dogs were very in demand, along with the breeds I have mentioned. As far as the vet goes, yes see would make money doing the tests.
I would adopt a male BC puppy. If she (the vet) thought he was a good candidate, she would give me her findings in writing. If not, I would have to agree to get my dog fixed. Which I would do anyway. If he was not suitable for breeding.

Let me ask this, due to overpopulation, should breeding just be stopped? Are breeders responsible for overpopulation? I don't think so. Pups and kittens are so
cute. So, people buy them. Without any idea, they can be almost as much work as a human baby. They also don't think about the costs. I spend $300, when I
go to the vet. That includes anti-parasite meds. That does not include food or toys, or things he has damaged in the past. Right there is about $500.

[Lady's Human]

Let me ask this, due to overpopulation, should breeding just be stopped? Are breeders responsible for overpopulation? I don't think so. Pups and kittens are so
cute. So, people buy them. Without any idea, they can be almost as much work as a human baby. They also don't think about the costs. I spend $300, when I
go to the vet. That includes anti-parasite meds. That does not include food or toys, or things he has damaged in the past. Right there is about $500.

Puppies and kitties are cute, but they're WORK. Buy a puppy for the cute factor alone, and it's in the paper, on C/L or in a shelter as soon as the people figure out how much work they are, or the landlord won't let them keep them, ad nauseum.

You want one of the pups. What are you going to do with the rest from the litter? Put them on C/L? Advertise in the paper? That's a great way to get homes for the animals.

[snakemama]

No, but due to overpopulation, the average person does not need to be producing pet dogs because "puppies are cute". Ethical breeding is a heavy responsibility, not something to go into because "I want to make cute puppies!". Ethical breeders exist to preserve and improve upon their breed. They put a TON of work, love, and money into their dogs. They study, they learn, they have extensive health testing done on the adults, they get their dogs titled in what the dogs were meant to do. They screen potential families carefully. They offer health guarantees, and have to be prepared to take the dog back at any point during its life. They become a mini-mentor to the people who have their puppies, and they are available to help guide the new owners through the puppy's life.

IRRESPONSIBLE breeders are absolutely a good chunk of the problem. They think "My two dogs are so great, I should make puppies with them!" They sell the puppies on Craigslist or in the newspaper and then lose contact with the new owner, who is now stuck with a puppy they may or may not be able to handle. THOSE are the dogs that get dumped at the shelter...when I worked in a pet supply store I talked to people EVERY SINGLE DAY who ad bought cute puppies they were now overwhelmed with, and I'd say "Talk to your breeder".....and would get a blank look... "Oh, we got this puppy in the newspaper, we don't still have their number." .....and a thousand similar stories.

I will reiterate everything I said in my last post. If you are serious about it, FIND A MENTOR in the breed...have them take you to shows and herding trials, and learn all you can. If you still want to breed once you have spent that time learning and studying, talk to your mentor about it.

Also - google "Border Collie Rescue Florida" ....there are a LOT to choose from.

[Alysser]

Reputable Breeders are NOT responsible for overpopulation, people that "breed for fun", and other stupid reasons are. Anyone that is not bettering the breed has absolutely no reason to be breeding period. Your children don't need to see the miracle of birth, you don't need a ton of puppies running around because it's cute, etc. Don't make these puppies someone else's problem. You will have plenty of people abandoning these dogs because they will most likely have some health issues, be too hyper, and billion other excuses. As much as you say you won't be adding to the population problem you will be. To every family you give a dog to, they COULD have adopted that sad adult pit in the shelter that REALLY needed that home. There's no excuse for breeding a dog that has no business being bred, period.

[Jessika]

Reputable Breeders are NOT responsible for overpopulation, people that "breed for fun", and other stupid reasons are. Anyone that is not bettering the breed has absolutely no reason to be breeding period. Your children don't need to see the miracle of birth, you don't need a ton of puppies running around because it's cute, etc. Don't make these puppies someone else's problem. You will have plenty of people abandoning these dogs because they will most likely have some health issues, be too hyper, and billion other excuses. As much as you say you won't be adding to the population problem you will be. To every family you give a dog to, they COULD have adopted that sad adult pit in the shelter that REALLY needed that home. There's no excuse for breeding a dog that has no business being bred, period.
This pretty much sums up my feelings about breeding.

No, I don't think *all* breeding should be stopped. But I do think that there is WAY too much irresponsible breeding going on.

If you are serious about breeding, contact some border collie breeders and get a mentor. However, I do not think your "It is my money and I should be able
to get what I want" or "this would just be for fun" attitude is an appropriate attitude to have when it comes to this topic... or ANY topic, really. Money should not be the driving factor... the driving factor should be wanting to improve the breed and its gene pool.

And it's not just about getting proper health clearances, either... your dog should be shown in the appropriate avenues and titled when appropriate to ensure that it IS a good quality stock for the breed and should actually be bred. It is not "for fun"...

Again... please think long and hard about this. Look up the definition of a backyard breeder.

[Doug_FL]

I looked up Back Yard Breeder. I don't see it pertaining to me or what my plans are. I have only spoken to my vet once about this.
I have going to that practice for 10 years. The comments I have gotten seem to suggest, only a very few people have the right to
breed dogs. And if I breed mine, it will force a Pit Bull to remain in a shelter. The reality is there are too many Pit Bulls, not too many
BCs. People are scared of that breed, that is why there are so many in shelter. I would not even have one. The building where I live
does not allow them. A Border Collie or Aussie was not a problem. Pits can be unpredictable. They can cause a problem with home
owners insurance as well. 5826458265582665826758268

If I can get a male puppy that looks as good as the first three photos, I will look into breeding him. The last two photos are of the dog I
have now. He turned out to be healthy and very much within breed standards. I wish I could have breed him. But, he had to be fixed,
due to county law where I got him. It was a county animal control & shelter, in the Tampa St Pete area.

[Lady's Human]

Educate yourself.

Pitties are fine dogs as long as they're raised correctly.

Your ignorance (on many issues) is palpable.

[snakemama]

You're obviously not looking for advice, so why did you start the thread?

[Lady's Human]

Confirmation and pats on the back.

[Bonny]

You're obviously not looking for advice, so why did you start the thread?

I have wondered that too? If Doug has contact with his veterinary, why come here?

Veterinarians have contacts, maybe his veterinary can line him up with another border collie or aussie pup or full grown dog.

[Litterati]

Agree with Lady's Human and Snakemama and Bonny. Whole situation is problematic, and breeding "for fun" when shelter dogs need homes really troubles me. That said, I'm not going to change someone's mind if they are hell-bent on doing something. But from all the comments on this thread, if this guy is looking for affirmation for his intentions he's in the wrong place. Just sayin'.

[Lady's Human]

BTW, before a visitor reads this train wreck and gets the wrong impression about the forum, we have had RESPONSIBLE breeders here and welcomed them. If you've done your genetic testing, genealogy, ad nauseum, and want to breed dogs to improve the strains, no problem.

There are plenty of pets waiting for homes in shelters. I'm not biased against breeds (okay, there is ONE breed I have issues with, and it's not pitties), however, I prefer labs and lab mixes........then took one of those evil, unstable pitties home from the shelter after she impressed the heck out of me with the kids.

[Litterati]

I hear you Lady's Human and no prob with Forum at all, just with this particular case/poster and motivation behind his interest in breeding.

[snakemama]

BTW, before a visitor reads this train wreck and gets the wrong impression about the forum, we have had RESPONSIBLE breeders here and welcomed them. If you've done your genetic testing, genealogy, ad nauseum, and want to breed dogs to improve the strains, no problem.

There are plenty of pets waiting for homes in shelters. I'm not biased against breeds (okay, there is ONE breed I have issues with, and it's not pitties), however, I prefer labs and lab mixes........then took one of those evil, unstable pitties home from the shelter after she impressed the heck out of me with the kids.

Agreed, I always looked forward to updates from a certain person who bred lovely Belgian Shepherds...carefully, with a thorough knowledge of what she was doing, and the help of other people in the breed. :)

[Lady's Human]

Exactly who I was thinking of, anyone heard from her lately? Her dogs are gorgeous.

[Karen]

Exactly who I was thinking of, anyone heard from her lately? Her dogs are gorgeous.

I'll go nudge her on Facebook! With two kids now and a recent litter of puppies ... she's been busy! :)

[wolfsoul]

I've been summoned... Lolol.

Sounds to me like you're really not that much into 'breeding,' but rather "studding out." Therefore, you do avoid a huge amount of the responsibility. As a reputable stud owner, you'll be expected to perform at least the minimal amount of genetic health tests for the breed. In border collies, you'll need a minimum of hips & eyes tested and certified. Your vet may not have experience with x-raying hips in the proper position for OFA; You may need to search for a radiologist. Average price for hips (without elbows) is in the $300-500 area; Some are significantly more, and some less. This will need to be done no earlier than 2 years of age. Obviously a failing grade from OFA would immediatly take him out of breeding, I hope. Currently OFA's statistics show the border collie as having an 8% dysplastic rate. These numbers are terribly skewed, as the majority of x-rays showing moderate to severe dysplasia are apparent enough, at least to the vet, that they are rarely submitted to OFA... Meaning the affected rate could be significantly higher than 8%, so, testing should always be done. Obviously, you'll want to find a breeder who tests the hips on their dogs as well. You're better off to have at least 4-5 (or more) generations of completely x-rayed dogs.
Then you'll need the Optigen test for CEA/CH. It's $180 plus whatever blood draw fees and shipping fees apply from your vet. It'll tell you if your dog is a carrier or clear -- unless of course,both parents are clear, in which case your dog will be clear by parentage and you won't need to test... or, if the parents were not tested and were both not known to be clear by parentage, you'd also be testing to see if your dog is affected, which hopefully it wouldn't be. It's also good idea to do yearly OFA eye checks(formerly was usually known as CERF tests) to also check for less common issues, like PRA. These usually run around $50-80, and then the certification fees are only about $8.
You'll also need to do a brucellosis test before each breeding (and require this for the female as well). These are about $60-100, unless you're lucky enough to have a vet who does in-house testing -- which isn't likely, but then you're more likely to spend between $30-60.
Also, you'd need to keep a good eye out for any potential seizure activity in your dog. Since epilepsy and EIC (exercise induced collapse) are not uncommon in border collies, it's wise to keep an eye out for these diseases... and obviously keep any affected dogs out of the gene pool. Since epilepsy is often a late-onset issue, many breeders wait until the dog is older before breeding. So, you might find that a responsible breeder may not even be interested in using your dog at stud until he is 6+ years of age.

Then of course, you need to think up some contract terms, so that in the event that your dog produces some hereditary issue that affects some/all of the puppies and costs the female owner a great deal of money that you aren't sued, so that the female owner isn't out an entire stud fee if there are no puppies produced or your male is unknowingly sterile, etc etc...Not to mention what happens if a female is injured or lost in your care? I know a breeder who had two females come to her for breeding, and the male attacked and killed both of them. When I sent a female away for breeding, she wasn't quite ready to breed and scaled the stud owner's ten foot fence. Might have lost her forever. What if you accidentally let another male get to her? I've seen that happen plenty of times. Males jump 10 foot fences, they chew through drywall, they bend open chainlink to get to a female in heat -- best make sure it's your male destroying your property to get to the female, and not your neighbor's dog down the road. ;-) You also have to learn how to properly hold a female so she isn't injured (though personally you should worry more about your male, as penis injuries are quite common -- in dogs they are a bone, and easily broken by an unwilling female). The last two stud services I did, the females needed to be muzzled and held in place, or my male would have been injured in both cases -- and us (the people) holding the female! Avoid being bitten. ;-)
Become well versed in AI's (artificial insemination). If your dog can't get the job done, you'll have to get it done for him. No point in making someone spend the money on shipping/driving their female to you and wasting a heat cycle for nothing. Best to make an appointment with a repro vet (you may have a hard time finding one in your area, so expect to travel if need be) and learn how to collect and what equipment you'll need to buy. Of course, you could just have the vet do it for you, but many male dogs are not comfortable having the vet collect for AI's. My male certainly isn't. In the event that a tie can not occur, and the female has been sent to you (owner not available), you should also become well versed in reading progesterone numbers... As it's most likely the female owner will expect you to run the female back and forth and do the AI when the progesterone says the female is at her most fertile point. If you don't have a repro vet on hand to help translate -- KNOW the numbers.

Become well versed in pedigrees/lines. So that you know the strengths of your male's pedigree, and whether or not it will compliment the female's. Not to mention, you'd best know what health issues are lurking behind your male, so you don't unknowingly combine two high risk pedigrees. The male is almost ALWAYS blamed for whatever health issues arise in offspring, so it's wise that you only combine what you believe will produce healthy offspring, lest you tarnish your male's reputation, your replutation, and his breeder's reputation. Even a dog with OFA Excellent hips can produce entire litters of dysplastic puppies. Which dogs in the pedigree are epilepsy producers? Which ones produced EIC? Which ones died early of cancer? Etc.
Now -- seeing as how you're buying from a reputable breeder, the dog would almost definitely be co-owned with the breeder anyways.... As most breeders will not outright sell breeding dogs to novice breeders. And therefore, they will most likely be the ones to make all the breeding decisions for you. Still, it's best to know what pedigree you've gotten yourself into.

As far as what to expect with owning an intact male. I currently have two adult intact males. One is inexperienced, and uncharacteristically good with all dogs (intact males even), however he can't be in my house without a belly band -- he tries to mark everything. The other is experienced -- he hates most other intact males. He lets it be known. At shows, this is a huge pain in the butt. With females in heat all over the place, he can be quite snarky with dogs who are 20 feet away from him. If a female nearby is near ovulation, he howls constantly. 3am wakeup call every morning. ;-) Every bark turns into a pathetic howl. The neighbors aren't too terribly fond of it. He rubs his nose and face on his crate door and the fence until he has open wounds. I have to keep him confined for the most part during these times. He is fine in the house during normal months, until he's either stressed about a female in heat nearby, or stressed because he can't eat my other male, in which case every now and then he'll mark in protest. Had to scrub my recliner the other day. Oh -- and then I accidentally let my new male in the house without a belly band, and within 5 minutes he proceeded to mark in 6 different areas in my house. These are training issues -- not nessecarily 'intact male' issues, but as a self-admitted lazy trainer, I know how much easier it would be to own a neutered dog, and I don't even suffer from males who destroy everything to get to a female (yet -- knock on wood).

As far as rescue -- maybe your area is different, but in Canada we have a HUGE amount of BC's in rescue. People think they want a smart family dog, until their dog is chasing/nipping their children, going neurotically insane at 'moving lights' coming from the livingroom window, running back and forth barking at the window at the cars driving by, and wearing a path down the fenceline for the same reason. So another thought you may want to ask yourself is, what TYPE of border collie do you want? There is a shift in thought between breeders who breed for different things. You say your dog is 'in standard' but looking at the photo, to me this looks little like the 'in standard' border collies that I see at the shows. Is 'pretty,' what you're going for? Because I haven't heard much about temperament or working ability from you, but rather looks. In which case (show bred) you might have an easier time selling puppies to active families -- but you could also end up with unhappy people who buy the dog for high levels of competition, not to mention being hated and ridiculed in the much larger world of working border collie enthusiasts who despise show-bred dogs. And, if your dog is a show bred dog and advertised for stud, you'll almost certainly be expected to show the dog to it's championship. Showing is expensive and can be disappointing at times.

Lots to think about. There is no fun invloved. I love the 'idea' of breeding my males! I love hearing about the resulting puppies! My stud dog had 9 puppies born yesterday. After the 'fun thoughts' were over, I am now overcome with worry at the thought of helping place NINE working bred puppies. Not an easy task. Of course, it's technically not my responsibility, but what kind of stud owner would I be if I didn't want HIS puppies ending up in perfect homes? I want the best for them! So I will work my butt off to help the breeder find homes because her waiting list is not long enough to cover 9 puppies. Having females here for breeding is NOT fun. I don't particularily become enthused at the thought of muzzling an uncooperative female, trying to find a good spot to "boost" my short male (poor Tandem is going to get a complex) "help" him enter (and get covered in disgusting stinky semenal fluids at the same time) stressing at wondering why he's taking his time (can he not figure it out??? Do I have to AI??? NOOO I do NOT want to do dirty things to my dog, and then insert plastic things into the female's girly parts -- ick ick ick), and then being stuck in place for half an hour bent over while we wait for them to untie... And do this once a day, or once every second day... I've had females do 8 breedings, 6 breedings... And then you get to listen to the howling for days until the female goes home. No it's not fun at all, and no you don't make any money. You might make enough to cover dog food for a few months, if you're really lucky. If you're counting the time spent, don't bother, because you'll realise you're definitely not getting paid for that time. But I love my breed, I have 'different' lines that help to fill a niche in a very small gene pool, and I want to better my breed! So I do it.

Hope this helps! It's a lot to think about.

[Karen]

Thanks so much, Jordan! That is perfect - and what anyone should know before they think of breeding their dog!

Now we just need a picture of one of your gorgeous pups! ;) Whenever I see a Belgian I think of you!

[wolfsoul]

Here are three of the last bunch (Tandem/Fidji) at 7 weeks. Orange girl who is in a show/performance/breeding home in WA, Blue boy (who I still have with me -- oops! Needs a performance home!), and Green boy, my pick co-owned show male who tragically died due to a drug reaction at his new home in PA. Still having a really tough time with it.
The individual shot is my Blue boy. He's almost 12 weeks now, but I'll keep him as long as it takes to find his perfect home. He is the only one that really reminds me of his sire.
No photos yet of the NINE puppies just whelped in WA yesterday! :eek: Tandem's largest litter yet.

[Karen]

Here are three of the last bunch (Tandem/Fidji) at 7 weeks. Orange girl who is in a show/performance/breeding home in WA, Blue boy (who I still have with me -- oops! Needs a performance home!), and Green boy, my pick co-owned show male who tragically died due to a drug reaction at his new home in PA. Still having a really tough time with it.
The individual shot is my Blue boy. He's almost 12 weeks now, but I'll keep him as long as it takes to find his perfect home. He is the only one that really reminds me of his sire.
No photos yet of the NINE puppies just whelped in WA yesterday! :eek: Tandem's largest litter yet.

Oh, good gracious, he is ski adorable! Got that stance down already! Give him a kiss from me, please! :)

[Jessika]

Unless you're following through with all certifications, testings, and clearances... I'm sorry, but you would be a backyard breeder.

I welcome RESPONSIBLE breeders with open arms. But, please. Educate yourself first. Think of the dogs, NOT of your own personal agenda.

Your ignorance regarding not only pit bulls but pet overpopulation is sad... pet overpopulation is NOT limited to any one breed but encompasses ALL breeds... including your beloved border collies that you seem to think are exempt from this problem.

Wolfsoul has some EXCELLENT advice. You would do very well by following it.

[snakemama]

Thanks Wolfsoul! It's always a pleasure to see your dogs!

I too love the IDEA of breeding the occasional litter - In my fantasy world I would have Bedlington Terriers...but I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I couldn't handle it.

[Alysser]

I looked up Back Yard Breeder. I don't see it pertaining to me or what my plans are. I have only spoken to my vet once about this.
I have going to that practice for 10 years. The comments I have gotten seem to suggest, only a very few people have the right to
breed dogs. And if I breed mine, it will force a Pit Bull to remain in a shelter. The reality is there are too many Pit Bulls, not too many
BCs. People are scared of that breed, that is why there are so many in shelter. I would not even have one. The building where I live
does not allow them. A Border Collie or Aussie was not a problem. Pits can be unpredictable. They can cause a problem with home
owners insurance as well.


Your ignorance about Pitbulls alone is why you SHOULDN'T be breeding. I don't even get why you started this thread, since you know everything already. I was at a shelter yesterday and there were 4 pitbulls and 4 border collies in the shelter...so an equal number. But no, you're not going to be adding to the issue at all.

[Litterati]

Wow! Those Belgian Sheperds! Cuteness Overload Alert needed with pics. These pups are sooo adorable! :D Plus excellent advice/guide to what's involved in breeding.

[pomtzu]

There is much more that I would like to say about the OP's motives, but it is useless and akin to beating a dead horse. He obviously had his mind made up as to what he would do, even before he started this thread. What a shame. :(:mad: