Partial U.S. Government shutdown

[cassiesmom]

Do other national governments come up against "shutdowns" if budget agreements can't be reached? I think it would be embarrassing for tourists from other countries trying to visit the Smithsonian museums - sorry, you can't come in today, we're closed because we're broke. Same thing with the National Park Service. And the NIH - let's just stop working in the middle of clinical trials; we're out of money so we can't continue searching for cures for things like cancer and AIDS. And another question, why are they trying to "defund" the Affordable Care Act at the 11th hour? It seems too late for that. Yes, it's going to be messy for a long while until everything gets sorted out. It's not without flaws. I just find all of this extremely confusing and frustrating. They thought the first round of cuts in federal government services would never happen, but it did. Please let's keep a second round from going through.

[Lady's Human]

This isn't new, it's not something done solely by the Republicans.

A list of prior shutdowns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown

Why defund ACA? It's an intrusive mess, written by bureaucrats and forced through with no one in either party completely understanding the scope of the disaster they were passing. It's an ill-conceived mess that panders to all parties but the people it's supposed to help.

Remember, we have to pass it to understand what's in the bill?

I don't want my doctor asking me about unrelated issues to the visit because the government says he/she has to.

I don't want to have to pay an insurance company for a service I don't want.

By the time my children are 26, they damned well better be in a position to get their own health insurance, there's no need for them to be carried by mom and dad once they are out of college/trade school.

Insurance reform and accounting reform, ending the endless shell games and reams of paperwork would be a welcome relief to all, instead they pass this hot mess.



By the way, the only reason this is happening now, and didn't happen months before, is that the Treasury Department is taking "extraordinary measures" to control the budget deficit. What are those measures? Borrowing from Federal Employee's pension accounts to pay bills. If a corporation did that they'd be in court on accounting fraud charges. The government, however, is apparently immune from transparency in finance.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Getting back to the original question ... most other national governments do not have this type of problem with their national budgets. There are a numbers of reasons for this, including that many countries have a parliamentary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system) system of government which tends not to split the two houses (House and Senate) because of the way votes are counted. Additionally many other countries are not as politically polarized as the US, which tends to leave more room for concensus.

[RICHARD]

It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.:confused:

[cassiesmom]

It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.:confused:

The governor of Illinois tried that and I think he got taken to court by people who wanted to get paid.

[Karen]

It is inexcusable, and just plain political grandstanding by politicians, who forget that this will actual affect the loves and pocketbooks of ordinary Americans.

If they happens, and we don't have a big turnover in Congress at the next election, I will be truly disappointed in my fellow Americans.

[Alysser]

It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.:confused:

Yep, as usual :mad:

My brother is a Government worker and depends on his paycheck to live, he lives in a very expensive area of the country to. He is pretty worried. I am worried about this happening often in the future, because I'll be working for the Feds at some point and this they pull way too often.

[Lady's Human]

It is inexcusable, and just plain political grandstanding by politicians, who forget that this will actual affect the loves and pocketbooks of ordinary Americans.

If they happens, and we don't have a big turnover in Congress at the next election, I will be truly disappointed in my fellow Americans.

The leadership will be re-elected because of the pork they bring home to their districts, a few seats will change hands, and the 90%+ incumbency rate will continue.

After all, MY guy ain't the problem.

[Lady's Human]

Yep, as usual :mad:

My brother is a Government worker and depends on his paycheck to live, he lives in a very expensive area of the country to. He is pretty worried. I am worried about this happening often in the future, because I'll be working for the Feds at some point and this they pull way too often.

It's actually not a big deal, the longest shutdown was 17 days, people got paid, and the sun came up the next morning as well.

Just an edit: When the government was shut down in the early '90s, I was a corporal making $1100 per month. Did it suck? Yep. However, they're never long shutdowns, and Congress normally passes legislation giving back pay to those who were furloughed.

It has happened before, it will happen again, and will keep happening as long as we sleep through the primaries and allow the hyper partisans of both parties to get elected. The general public doesn't pay attention during the primaries, so the party hard liners who can pull the most votes in the primaries win. Mitt Romney and Pres. Obama are both party hard liners, it's the only way to get through the silliness that is our primary system. A few thousand people in Iowa determine who gets the money to continue in the primaries, and many, many presidential candidates never get through to the rest of the states because of that.

[cassiesmom]

Getting back to the original question ... most other national governments do not have this type of problem with their national budgets. There are a numbers of reasons for this, including that many countries have a parliamentary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system) system of government which tends not to split the two houses (House and Senate) because of the way votes are counted. Additionally many other countries are not as politically polarized as the US, which tends to leave more room for concensus.


Thank you, E-t-S! This helps me understand it a lot better!

There was a demonstration at the Federal Plaza today in Chicago. One man said he works for the EPA and if the government shuts itself down, he would be unable to continue his work of cleaning up environmental spills and other chemical exposures, with an unknown effect on the environment as those substances go untouched. And another person said he is supposed to be traveling out of the country for business later this year, but if he doesn't get his passport he's in big trouble. I think the federal government should stay open while elected officials try to sort this out. Hey, Congress, how about you pay those folks out of your paychecks instead of letting them all get furloughed, and you be the ones to get reimbursed once the "shutdown" ends.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Lady's Human is correct, in that in the past the people who were not working did receive backpay for the time they were off. But this time there is a real possibility that people not working may not receive their backpay. To authorize backpay, both the Senate and House have to agree to it. Given the current state of affairs, there is a feeling that this may not happen this time. People who are deemed "essential" and are working during the shut down (such as the military, air traffic controllers, and meat inspectors), will not receive a pay check while the government is closed. But they will receive their backpay when the government re-opens. So they are the "fortunate" ones as long as the shut down does not last too long, they should be okay.

BTW, all the legislators are deemed "essential" so they will get their pay...(but their janitors are not)

For the sake of all the people who will be laid off as of noon today, I hope that this is resolved quickly in a sensible manner and we do not have the same problem on October 19th (when the debt limit is reached).

[lizbud]

Thank you, E-t-S! This helps me understand it a lot better!

There was a demonstration at the Federal Plaza today in Chicago. One man said he works for the EPA and if the government shuts itself down, he would be unable to continue his work of cleaning up environmental spills and other chemical exposures, with an unknown effect on the environment as those substances go untouched. And another person said he is supposed to be traveling out of the country for business later this year, but if he doesn't get his passport he's in big trouble. I think the federal government should stay open while elected officials try to sort this out. Hey, Congress, how about you pay those folks out of your paychecks instead of letting them all get furloughed, and you be the ones to get reimbursed once the "shutdown" ends.


All the news reports say people will still be able to get passports. That office is supported by fees and does not depend on Congressional appropriations.

[RICHARD]

Our tax dollars at work.

Morons, one and all.

------------------------

The prez makes me laugh.

His AHCA is a joke.


Reform the system BEFORE you start to give our insurance policies.
(I am accused of being anti prez and a Re-thug-lican because I want everyone to get QUALITY healthcare, not a piece of paper that says I get so-so care from a system that is broken and overworked).

Think of a doctor as a bus driver, his bus carries 30-40 people.

Because the government wants more people to ride the bus, but has no interest in buying more buses and training bus drivers?

This is what healthcare will look like in a few years....
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4761397593114865&pid=1.9&w=300&h=300&p=0

ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!:confused:

[lizbud]

Our tax dollars at work.

Morons, one and all.

------------------------

The prez makes me laugh.

His AHCA is a joke.


Reform the system BEFORE you start to give our insurance policies.
(I am accused of being anti prez and a Re-thug-lican because I want everyone to get QUALITY healthcare, not a piece of paper that says I get so-so care from a system that is broken and overworked).

Think of a doctor as a bus driver, his bus carries 30-40 people.

Because the government wants more people to ride the bus, but has no interest in buying more buses and training bus drivers?

This is what healthcare will look like in a few years....
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4761397593114865&pid=1.9&w=300&h=300&p=0

ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!:confused:


All the arguing about the ACA is pointless. It is now Law. Evidently more voted for it than against it. The Supreme Court affirmed ACA constitutional.

I love this video on the subject. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/jon-stewart-on-govt-shutdown_n_4020581.html?utm_hp_ref=comedy

[RICHARD]

All the arguing about the ACA is pointless. It is now Law. Evidently more voted for it than against it. The Supreme Court affirmed ACA constitutional.

I love this video on the subject. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/jon-stewart-on-govt-shutdown_n_4020581.html?utm_hp_ref=comedy

And you agree with putting more people into a system that is at it's breaking point and has a shortage of doctors and nurses?

[emily_the_spoiled]

But what should happen to those people?

[RICHARD]

But what should happen to those people?

Are you talking to me?

------------

The government should intervene and freeze HC costs - reform HC laws and give tax breaks to companies who can LOWER costs to the industries and patients.

Start gov't. funded clinics and hospitals and tell people who enter the field that they will get their tuitions funded or paid for if they complete their schooling and practice for, what 5 years, in a HC setting, otherwise they pay for their schooling.

Again, I am not against giving people QUALITY HEALTH CARE. It's the way that pompous politicians push a law into being with out knowing how it will impact a vital part of everyday life.

I love it when people take the "it's law, too bad" stance....It shows that a person with a staff can get them to any pasture they desire.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Some of your suggestions are already in place. There is currently a program that will pay the student loans of healthcare providers who practice in a medically underserved area. Unfortunately not nearly enough people take advantage of the program, so patients remain without access to health care. Many of the providers make more money working in areas with higher concentrations of medical providers, so the incentive of having their education paid off doesn't always work.

[RICHARD]

Some of your suggestions are already in place. There is currently a program that will pay the student loans of healthcare providers who practice in a medically underserved area. Unfortunately not nearly enough people take advantage of the program, so patients remain without access to health care. Many of the providers make more money working in areas with higher concentrations of medical providers, so the incentive of having their education paid off doesn't always work.

Talk to a Dr/Phys about why they are overworked and the paper BS from the gov't., ask them about being sued and why so many OBs are dropping their practices for something more "Non Sue-able". There are TONS of ethnic doctors now - they come to the U.S. to practice - people here in the U.S. are too lazy and want a 6-7 figure income because they watch too many TV shows that make it look 'easy'.

[Lady's Human]

The ideal solution to this?

468 new butts occupying seats after the midterm. (435 representatives plus roughly 33 Senate seats that are in play every 2 years)

It won't happen, but it's the only real solution.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The entire thing is just shameful!!! The entire lot of them, including the President, should be locked in a room together on bread and water until they get something agreed one. Since we are now broke, bread and water is all the US can really afford. :love:

By the way, learn to say moo..... my dr now is only supposed to spend only 8 minutes with each patient to move us though faster like cows. MOOOOOOOO?????

[Lady's Human]

Moldy bread and water from the puddle on the side of the street. That way we don't have to spend any money on feeding them.

[cassiesmom]

Talk to a Dr/Phys about why they are overworked and the paper BS from the gov't., ask them about being sued and why so many OBs are dropping their practices for something more "Non Sue-able". There are TONS of ethnic doctors now - they come to the U.S. to practice - people here in the U.S. are too lazy and want a 6-7 figure income because they watch too many TV shows that make it look 'easy'.

I don't think the paper BS is just from the government. I'm guilty of having generated plenty of it while working for health insurance companies. They can't spend time caring for patients because there is so much administrative work to do. Phone calls, letters, reports, documentation. I could go on and on. It's just a mess.

My upstairs neighbor is having a total knee replacement, I'm not exactly sure when. Her surgeon is a maverick. He doesn't accept insurance, he doesn't accept Medicare. He only takes patients who are willing to pay upfront. This is what the fee is, take it or leave it. He's also really good, so he can get away with it. You pay the fee (in full, before you go to the OR), you submit the documentation to your insurance(s), and they do their thing. If that doesn't work for you, here's a list of surgeons in the practice who accept Medicare and/or insurance. The hospital where he operates takes Medicare and most insurances. I asked my neighbor's husband what happens if the doctor makes a mistake and she ends up needing more care? Who pays then? He promised to find out for me.

[RICHARD]

The entire thing is just shameful!!! The entire lot of them, including the President, should be locked in a room together on bread and water until they get something agreed one. Since we are now broke, bread and water is all the US can really afford. :love:

By the way, learn to say moo..... my dr now is only supposed to spend only 8 minutes with each patient to move us though faster like cows. MOOOOOOOO?????

8 minutes?

So, let's say they 'should' see 6 patients an hour - that leaves 12 minutes to write orders, chart and maybe do a prescription for all 6?

And let's make the doctor work 10 hours, minus 50 minutes to eat and a break or two? That leaves 530 minutes in a 10 hour shift.

That is 33 patients in a day....If the doc has an emergency or need to make his rounds for patients in the hospital?

Again, I want everyone to have insurance. The Oblamea way isn't the best.

--------------------

I love the fact that these idiots are holding pressers - how much are they costing us - to blame each other.

[RICHARD]

I don't think the paper BS is just from the government. I'm guilty of having generated plenty of it while working for health insurance companies. They can't spend time caring for patients because there is so much administrative work to do. Phone calls, letters, reports, documentation. I could go on and on. It's just a mess.

My upstairs neighbor is having a total knee replacement, I'm not exactly sure when. Her surgeon is a maverick. He doesn't accept insurance, he doesn't accept Medicare. He only takes patients who are willing to pay upfront. This is what the fee is, take it or leave it. He's also really good, so he can get away with it. You pay the fee (in full, before you go to the OR), you submit the documentation to your insurance(s), and they do their thing. If that doesn't work for you, here's a list of surgeons in the practice who accept Medicare and/or insurance. The hospital where he operates takes Medicare and most insurances. I asked my neighbor's husband what happens if the doctor makes a mistake and she ends up needing more care? Who pays then? He promised to find out for me.

The paperwork must get done. I know, I made and pushed 30 years worth.

The government BS is DRGs.

I have done this before but everyone needs to know this.

A Diagnosis Related Group/ICD are codes assigned to illnesses that the government standardizes. The hospital bill according to those codes. Each code has an assigned average as to how many days a patient, with that illness, can stay in the hospital.

If you have an appendectomy the hospital bills for two days, If you get peritonitis, you get more time, but it that peritonitis is really bad, they have to code another illness to make sure they make money on that stay. Otherwise, they lose money.

The doctor signs an attestation saying that his diagnosis and other stuff is correct and the forms that I remember had the "This needs to be correct our we are going to fine you......."

The doc is under the gun to make 'sure' you are out of the hospital no longer than deemed necessary. The hospitals lean heavily on them to get people out. (I remember seeing people being discharged, then coming back in to the hospital a few days later, to start a new billing for their sickness, all because the docs could not keep them in the hospital.)

--------------

At one point, physicians were asked not order tests, as a cost saving measure. One doctor leaked the memo and people were very upset with that news.

---------------


Knee replacements? Holy poop!

Some Ortho surgeries are a scam.

Our hospital deemed it a good thing to rent all the drills and saws. When one broke, we had to send it out to be fixed and the 'salesperson' would bring a replacement in and charge for the repair of the tool, bringing in a new one and bringing the repaired implement back.

Do not talk about the cost of pins, screws and rods. Suture sales people are also scammers.

--------------------

Look at your next hospital bill and ASK FOR A DETAILED BILL.

These days a hospital charges on an "average admission".

A computer tracks all the supplies for an admitting diagnosis and prints out a 'pick list' as to what they assume you will need.

So, If you deliver a baby and go home in a few hours? You will be billed for the supplies that the use on average for a delivery.....




So, the influx of 50 million people, into a system that is barely slogging along, is very disconcerting and not a very good idea.

[Bonny]

The paperwork must get done. I know, I made and pushed 30 years worth.

The government BS is DRGs.

I have done this before but everyone needs to know this.

A Diagnosis Related Group/ICD are codes assigned to illnesses that the government standardizes. The hospital bill according to those codes. Each code has an assigned average as to how many days a patient, with that illness, can stay in the hospital.

If you have an appendectomy the hospital bills for two days, If you get peritonitis, you get more time, but it that peritonitis is really bad, they have to code another illness to make sure they make money on that stay. Otherwise, they lose money.

The doctor signs an attestation saying that his diagnosis and other stuff is correct and the forms that I remember had the "This needs to be correct our we are going to fine you......."

The doc is under the gun to make 'sure' you are out of the hospital no longer than deemed necessary. The hospitals lean heavily on them to get people out. (I remember seeing people being discharged, then coming back in to the hospital a few days later, to start a new billing for their sickness, all because the docs could not keep them in the hospital.)

--------------

At one point, physicians were asked not order tests, as a cost saving measure. One doctor leaked the memo and people were very upset with that news.

---------------


Knee replacements? Holy poop!

Some Ortho surgeries are a scam.

Our hospital deemed it a good thing to rent all the drills and saws. When one broke, we had to send it out to be fixed and the 'salesperson' would bring a replacement in and charge for the repair of the tool, bringing in a new one and bringing the repaired implement back.

Do not talk about the cost of pins, screws and rods. Suture sales people are also scammers.

--------------------

Look at your next hospital bill and ASK FOR A DETAILED BILL.

These days a hospital charges on an "average admission".

A computer tracks all the supplies for an admitting diagnosis and prints out a 'pick list' as to what they assume you will need.

So, If you deliver a baby and go home in a few hours? You will be billed for the supplies that the use on average for a delivery.....




So, the influx of 50 million people, into a system that is barely slogging along, is very disconcerting and not a very good idea.

You mention the government standardizes what goes down as how far the doctor can go treating a patient with codes, is this for people who don't have any insurance? We have a supplement insurance along with medicare. I have seen where the hospital must of overcharged & ended up writing if off.

[Lady's Human]

What truly amazes me in all this is that people have allowed the Federal Government so much control and influence in their day to day lives that this is a crisis.

The Federal Government was never supposed to be the overarching solution to people's problems in the United States, but rather a solution of last resort. When the Government taking a few days off is a crisis, we really need to look deeply into the problem, and get beyond the hysteria.

Had the Senate and the House been able to do their Constitutionally mandated job and pass a budget without the hyper-partisan poison pills that BOTH sides immerse into the legislation, we wouldn't be here.

NO BUDGET for 4 years is an unacceptable situation. There shouldn't have to be any continuing resolutions, shouldn't have to be constant debt increase crises, but both sides prefer to score political points rather than enact a semi-permanent solution.

Unless most of the Congressional incumbents fail to win reelection, they've proven that the voters of this nation are fools. As it is, they have single digit approval ratings, but a 90%+ reelection rate. The proof is in the election results. As a nation, we're irate with the status quo when polled, but we're too damned lazy to DO anything about it.

[RICHARD]

MOFF,

I was watching a little TV before I went to bed and, because the cable system was being worked on, I got to watch some guy talking about the healthcare act and how it affected a University Hospital here in the state.

He said that because of the HCI, the hospital was looking into having a primary physician do PHONE INTERVIEWS with their patients.

I don't know how much I put into a hearsay 'report' like that, but I thought about you and this scenario popped into my head.....

A robocall a few days before your 'phone appointment'?

"You are scheduled to speak to your primary physician on Oct. 12, The will contact you between the hours of 8 am and 6 pm. Please be available during those hours on Oct 12. If you need to cancel or change your appointment, please all the automated system at 1 800 555 1213 at least three days before your appointment....."

----------------------------------------

Bonny,

The ICD 10 and DRG codes are a standard that everyone uses to code illnesses and surgical procedures. EVERY doctor visit and hospital stay is coded and that info is reported to the government.

Those numbers are used for reporting to the CDC, to figure out what kinds of illnesses are on the rise/decline, what codes need to be revised, average hospital stays.........It's a giant numbers gathering system that is used in every way possible.

If you are concerned about the 'numbers' the government keeps on you, with the electronic medical record, that info will be available to them faster and more accurately.

The EMR is another disaster that no one wants to talk about.

Back in the mid 90s the idea of an EMR - for individual hospitals and providers- was shopped around.

It was touted as a faster, cleaner and paperless way to keep records. Buy a system, get rid of the paper, file clerks and train a nurse to be a data entry clerk....

So software companies rushed out to sell systems to physicians/clinics and med centers.

Two problems, the old paper charts needed to be scanned into a patient's charts or you keep the old paper chart until that patient leaves your system. A new patient with paper charts, needs to either get his chart to go to a new physician or the new phys has to get the old chart, himself.

The next problem?

Because each system is owned by a company and the codes are proprietary? The do not 'talk' to each other.
So, if a system was purchased, you must update it to meet the requirements of the universal EMR.

More money for the companies that are rewriting the codes to meet the new requirements - your records need to be available across the new system.

So, physicians, med centers and clinics have to shell out more money to meet the requirements of the HCI.

ALL PROVIDERS/CLINICS/HOSPITALS NEED TO BE ON A EMR SYSTEM W/IN 5 YEARS.

That way, all your medical info will be available on-line by the year 2017.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

One problem I have encountered recently is just because the dr tells you to come back for a recheck in 3 months that's not a good enough reason for them to see you.

My dr likes to see me every three months to keep on top of my blood pressure and arthrities and stuff. Last time I called the receptionists asked why I needed to see him. When I said he told me to come back I was told that was not a good enough reason to see him. :p

so, I just rambled off my entire list of ailments but still only got to see his nurse practioner. :rolleyes:

[blue]

Un staffed National parks now closed and guarded, National Parks website no longer updated, road side views of Rushmore also closed, Amber Alert System shut down.

Lock em all out.
http://isthegovernmentopen.com/images/obama.gif

[RICHARD]

Un staffed National parks now closed and guarded, National Parks website no longer updated, road side views of Rushmore also closed, Amber Alert System shut down.

Lock em all out.
http://isthegovernmentopen.com/images/obama.gif

So, what is the difference between right this second and the usual government?

Nothing gets done anyway?

[blue]

So, what is the difference between right this second and the usual government?

Nothing gets done anyway?

It costs more to close the National Parks then it does to keep them open.

[lizbud]

New study out that goes to prove how difficult it is to get the peoples business done in Washington DC.

http://www.theindychannel.com/lifestyle/us-adults-score-below-average-on-worldwide-competency-test10082013

[Lady's Human]

I'd be first in line to challenge the competency of some (okay, many, if not most) in Congress, but what does a worldwide test with no methodology in the article have to do with anything?

[Alysser]

My brother was furloughed as of yesterday. He works for the VA.

[emily_the_spoiled]

I am sorry to read this. As this goes on longer, there will be more people like you brother. Hopefully he will be able to go back to work soon.

[Lady's Human]

Hopefully people will wake up and stop sending the same people back to D.C. year after year.

Our Union just cleaned the slate on our national executive board. It CAN be done, people. If you think incumbent politicians are hard to get rid of, try removing a Union officer. It almost takes an act of god.

[lizbud]

Hopefully people will wake up and stop sending the same people back to D.C. year after year.

Our Union just cleaned the slate on our national executive board. It CAN be done, people. If you think incumbent politicians are hard to get rid of, try removing a Union officer. It almost takes an act of god.


Do you think gerrymandering has anything to do with the stalemate in Congress?

[Lady's Human]

Do you think gerrymandering has anything to do with the stalemate in Congress?

Nah, not at all. [/sarcasm]

Up until the last census, I was in a Congressional District that looked like a piece of spaghetti threading through upstate New York. When calling a Congressional office for assistance they had to check your address to see whether or not you were in their district, one side of the street was in the 21st, the other side was in the 22d.

Now it looks like it almost makes sense, but the borders were redrawn to favor the Republican incumbent when NY lost 2 districts.

My situation in Massachusetts was similar, just different names, with the districts redrawn to favor Democrats when the Republicans ceased to exist as a political entity in the State Legislature.

Regardless of Gerrymandering, however, da bums CAN be removed, it just takes an electorate who is paying attention in both the primaries and the general elections.

[RICHARD]

"things in Washington have to change"

You'd think someone with some (community) organizing experience may have the answer - as opposed to digging their heels in and making remarks about not negotiating?

[lizbud]

A interesting observation about the shutdown. Just saying.:D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/shutdown-women_n_4110268.html

[Lady's Human]

A interesting observation about the shutdown. Just saying.:D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/shutdown-women_n_4110268.html

Horsemanure.

The gender of the lawmakers has nothing to do with anything. Some of the most vicious rulers in history have been women.

As to their comments about women being pragmatic and more able to work together? Again, horsemanure.

[RICHARD]

Horsemanure.

The gender of the lawmakers has nothing to do with anything. Some of the most vicious rulers in history have been women.

As to their comments about women being pragmatic and more able to work together? Again, horsemanure.

The nuns at Mary Immaculate in So Cal wielded rulers in a manner that was no conducive with the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church, but then again, you knew you were in trouble when Sister Mary Torquemada was your teacher.

[lizbud]

Horsemanure.

The gender of the lawmakers has nothing to do with anything. Some of the most vicious rulers in history have been women.

As to their comments about women being pragmatic and more able to work together? Again, horsemanure.


Purely one man's humble opinion. LOL :) Women are by nature, the calmer, more mature peacemakers of society. They are used to settling disputes weather
in a family setting or in congress. There are always exceptions to every rule, but they are just that, exceptions.

[Catty1]

We have a record number of female Premiers in Canada.

A politician is a politician, as it turns out.

[Lady's Human]

Substitute race for gender.

Or religion.

Or nationality.

If someone here made a statement like yours substituting any of the above for gender, you'd be ...irritated, and the Mayor would most likely at a minimum warn them not to make that statement again.

Victoria, Catherine, Elizabeth, Mary, Indira Ghandi, Bodicea, Isabella, what a wonderful roll call of peacemakers.

[Karen]

There have been vicious rulers of any race or gender - just read history books carefully. SOME women are good peacemakers, but so are some men! And so it goes throughout history.

I have lived with women (all female dorm) and have lived with all men (housemates) and I could tell you which group I preferred living with, but I have friends of both genders anyway!

[lizbud]

I have lived with women (all female dorm) and have lived with all men (housemates) and I could tell you which group I preferred living with, but I have friends of both genders anyway!


I would probably agree with you on that choice.;) It is not wise to make generalizations as a rule, but it probably depends on your POV. I know who was the peacemaker
in my family & a few of my childhood friends felt the same way. With that in mind, here is another interesting article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/us/senate-women-lead-in-effort-to-find-accord.html?_r=0

[Lady's Human]

The only reason they forced the resolution was it was cutting into their shopping time.

They probably just wiggled the right way at the gaggle of 80-something Senators and used their assets to settle the problem. It's what women have done for eons.

[Karen]

I do like it when any politician, regardless of gender, decides to actually get something done, just wish they had done it 12 days earlier!

Let's stop lauding one gender as being responsible for either the stoppage or the bailout - it is a mixed group, and I am sure someone with a different point of view politically could pick three men and claimed it was all their doing just as much.

They all screwed up - men, women, Republican and Democrat, and while I would not have believed I could have less trust for politicians in general, it has sunk to new lows. There is no "feel good" moment in this, you cannot fool me, no matter how many pundits and talking heads try to!

[RICHARD]

Doris and I were watching (I am forced to watch MSNBC on her TV - So, I'll pass on commenting on gender and women dictators........JUST KIDDING) the tube......

There was some kind of post game round table discussion about the effects of the shutdown and what the prez needed to do to get back into the good graces of the people. The talking head said that part of the focus should be on immigration reform so he could keep his popularity with that segment of the population.


I thought, "No mention of the people that were affected by the shutdown" - The only thing that these idiots care about is how the polls look for them.......And the worst part is that everyone will forget about this in few weeks and the finger pointing and blame game will start over again when this 'extension' runs out.