"Helicopter" parenting

[Karen]

Today I witnessed for the first time serious "helicopter parenting" and was pretty dismayed. I was waiting for my take-out at a restaurant chain. I always order in person, so usually wait 10-15 minutes. As I sat to wait, I saw to my left two women in shorts and flip flops sitting filling out what looked like applications. Then they came over to the counter, and the daughter (closer, I realized it was mother and daughter) asked for the manager. The mother stood with her. When the manager cam over, and took the application, he asked the daughter, "Do you have a few minutes now?" She said yes, and so the mother said, "I'll wait over here."

The manager proceeded to an empty part of the restaurant with the daughter, but then the part that surprised me, was the mother then started asking all sorts of questions of the take-out cashier. She said, "Don't worry, we practically hire everyone, we're pretty desperate ..." but the mother proceeded to tell her what a good person her daughter is, her age, her high school, about what good, successful people her older sibling are, the colleges they went to, where her daughter intends to go, and she's sure her daughter will be a success in life, too, and going on and on about what a good person her kid is. For at least 15 minutes! With other employees, who clearly had no interest or influence in the hiring decision. And who had other responsibilities - as in actual customers - they could have been helping!

It isn't the kid's fault, I am sure she will be hired anyway (the cashier basically implied if she wasn't an ax-murderer, she's be hired), but how annoying!

Would you ever go into an interview with your child? Or coach your kid when filling out an application, to the extent of filling it out with him or her?

If you were a hiring manager, what would you think?

Opinions?

[Alysser]

When I applied for my first few jobs, my parent DID go with me, but they made me ask about it and everything. They would NEVER go into an interview with me and I would never with a child of mine. That's just really odd behavior to me. My dad has helped me make my resume and apply online for jobs, but he wouldn't help me fill out and entire application with him.

As a hiring manager, I would be turned off by how much involvement that parent had. It would make me believe the girl was immature or didn't want the job and her parents were making her apply.

[Casper]

My mom is a very "do it yourself" kind of parent. The most she would do is say "so-and-so is hiring, you should drop by there". That being said, I believe I would be the same way. When a parent tags a long with their child on a job hunt or anything of the sort I would question the applicant on if s/he is independent enough to do a job well without the constant support of a parent. Or, like Alyssa said, that the kid wasn't that interested in actually having a job.

Now, I have helped a friend fill out an application because he is very dyslexic and has problems reading, but other than that, if the person is fully capable of reading and comprehending an application, then they can do it on their own.

[smokey the elder]

The only exception may be a minor. 16 year olds may work part time in Massachusetts. Once you're of age you should be able to stand on your own two feet. Moral support before and after is absolutely OK, though.

[Cataholic]

I would certainly help my child fill out an application. For his first job, for a college application, for scholarship, etc. Why wouldn't I? I am an adult, with two college degrees, and have had people help me with my resume. No different. I will give my child every competitive advantage that I can. The way I was raised. I will check his homework, make him re-do it, go through his phone (when he gets one), check out his friends, his haunts, etc. I will inspect his FB page (when he gets one), and check his internet history (when it goes beyond Minecraft). I will make him attend prep classes for standardized tests, get him a tutor if necessary, and probably iron and wash his clothes until he leaves home.

Who knows what that child has going on inside. Maybe she suffers from anxiety. Maybe the mother just lost her job, and this is more important than it might seem? Maybe she is a ridiculously proud parent that can't help bragging about her children? Frankly, if she has older children, that have attended/graduated college and are "successful" people, she can't be doing it all wrong.

I think the much larger problem in today's society is parents that check out, not over parent.

Edited to add: if I was the hiring manager, I would be pretty psyched to see a parent along for the ride, knowing upfront most kids won't be driving themselves to the job. So, if a parent is committed, attendance goes up 75%.

[Lady's Human]

It isn't the kid's fault, I am sure she will be hired anyway (the cashier basically implied if she wasn't an ax-murderer, she's be hired), but how annoying!

Would you ever go into an interview with your child? Or coach your kid when filling out an application, to the extent of filling it out with him or her?

If you were a hiring manager, what would you think?

Opinions?

As the hiring manager? I'd hire the child sometime after satan learned to ski. If the parent is that involved with hiring, it's not going to end when the person is working at the restaurant.


I might give tips prior, would most likely go over what went right/wrong after the fact, but I would NEVER go with one of the kids to an interview.

16 is the age when a teen can work in Massachusetts, but I rode my bike to interviews and fill out job apps, and rode the bike to work most of the time as well until I got a car.

I see the results of this all too often, science fairs, school projects, etc, where the results of the "child's" work are far above what would be expected for the age group. I assist with homework when they have problems, and review after it's done, but that's it. The work is their own.

The most extreme example of this I've seen was actually in the Army, when we had the parents of a trainee up at Ft Drum write the base commander to make sure the training wasn't too rough on little jonny.....

As far as ironing and washing? They have hands, they have feet, and they can reach the washer and dryer.

[Taz_Zoee]

I don't see anything wrong with the parent going with the child to the place. But talking up the child to just another employee..........seemed a little desperate. And maybe there is more to the story that we don't know.

My parents never went with me to interviews (of course they worked full time plus some themselves). And I wouldn't have wanted my dad to go...........no way! He probably would have done what this mother did and they would NOT have hired me! LOL

[RICHARD]

My mom told me when I was 17 that when I turned 18, I had to get a job because I would no longer be covered under my parents insurance.

I got a 2 month temporary job that ended 30 years later.:eek::confused:

[kuhio98]

I'm with you Karen. In this case, too much involvement.
My mother went with me for my first job interview. She had to as I had no driver's license.
But, she ordered a cup of coffee and sat on the other side of the restaurant while I interviewed.

[sparks19]

I don't see the big deal. It's not like the parent sat IN on the interview. So she talked to some employees. It's not like she pulled the manager aside and talked her up to him or again... sat IN the interview. I don't really see anything wrong with what she did. My mom helped me with my very first application to a job because I asked for her help. I'd never filled out an application before. She (or my dad) also drove me to my interviews if she could because I didn't drive... I didn't even go for my license until I was 28 years old. I used public transportation to get to and from my jobs (or walked) but usually for my first visit to an establishment my mom would drive me and wait for me.

Actually, I remember one time when I was interviewing for a job doing singing telegrams, my mom drove me and when the owner came out to tell me she was ready to interview me she said to my mom "Are you mom? come on in and sit with us. it won't take long". it was a very informal interview and the three of us (my future boss, myself and my mom) ended up sitting and chatting together for a while after the interview. My future boss seemed very pleased that I had an ACTIVE parent in my life and wasn't like "Oh man... MOMS here... how passé"

I can remember times interviewing at fast food places as a teen and my dad would drive me and the manager would have the interview right out in the middle of the restaurant. My dad never sat in on an interview but he was sitting in the restaurant somewhere waiting for me or usually he was up chatting with the employees because he is a TALKER... big time lol. He's a chatty guy and pretty much everywhere I worked Everyone always knew my dad by name lol. When I worked at a coffee shop they would have a coffee ready for him when he came in lol.

I agree with Cataholic, we have more trouble with parents who just want to check out completely and do NOTHING with their kids or to help them out that I think THIS should be refreshing. This is not helicopter parenting. I've seen helicopter parenting and this isn't it lol. I've seen parents actively engage managers and run the interview for their child.

I don't know that as a manager that I would be looking for a young teen who is completely independent over a teen who has a support system and parents who are going to care about the child doing the job they were hired for.

[Karen]

I'm with you Karen. In this case, too much involvement.
My mother went with me for my first job interview. She had to as I had no driver's license.
But, she ordered a cup of coffee and sat on the other side of the restaurant while I interviewed.

Yeah, that's fine, I don't think diving the kid there is the problem, or checking the kid's application ... but actively filling out portions of it, and then all the chatting up of the other employees ...

[Cataholic]

I agree with Cataholic, we have more trouble with parents who just want to check out completely and do NOTHING with their kids or to help them out that I think THIS should be refreshing. This is not helicopter parenting. I've seen helicopter parenting and this isn't it lol. I've seen parents actively engage managers and run the interview for their child.

I don't know that as a manager that I would be looking for a young teen who is completely independent over a teen who has a support system and parents who are going to care about the child doing the job they were hired for.

Of course, I agree with you, as you agree with me. He he he.

My son goes to an inner city school (Cincinnati Public). There are plenty of kids there- in his actual classroom, without active parents, that apparently have had their kids do their own laundry starting with pre-k, pack their own lunches, and essentially walk to school both ways, up hill. I guess I say to those parents, "Bravo. Good luck with all that, I have my fingers crossed for your child". I prefer to actively parent. Lead by example, help out, assist, <gasp> make life easier for my child. I still make my 9 year old's bed. And remind him to brush his teeth. I know what junior high and high school I want him to go to, and I am putting things in place now to make that happen. There is no doubt in my mind I will send out requests for college applications and fill out the FAFSA for him. I have very high expectations for him, and he works very hard to achieve *my* expectations. I won't leave things to chance. He has plenty of time to fail as an adult, and we all know plenty of failing adults. LOL.

This was how my 7 siblings and I had it growing up. I didn't have to work from the time I was 10, I got an allowance (aka, free money). I played sports and was supported by my parents 100%. My 'job' was to do well in school. Oddly enough, we all turned out (largely paid for by my parents)college educated (and then some), home owning, job holding, law-abiding, laundry-doing citizens. We volunteer, support charities, help out, have close relationships, and oddly, parent our children the same way. We must be the anomoly. Come to think of it. All my friends and peers had it the same way. The school of hard knocks has plenty of time to happen...

As to chatting up an employee about how great a child the child is? Goodness...I consider that my honor, duty and right as a parent. How sad to think that some consider that helicopter parenting.

[Bonny]

My mother didn't have enough time to do anything for me ( she was a chronic house cleaner) & I was basically was on my own when it came to getting a ride to the unemployment office to apply for my first job. It was not a safe ride either. Russell a hood from Chicago who was living up the street with a family was good enough to drive me up to St. Paul to the employment office. I took a bunch of tests while he waited for me & then he drove me back home & he skipped out of town because the police wanted to talk to him.:eek: I ended up going to my first job interview by myself (took the city bus this time) & got the job. I was a whole 18 years old then.

Anyhow it can go either way in my book. You can do everything for a child & they may not learn a darn thing, or you can do nothing & hopefully they will learn something.

[Lady's Human]

It's not your scholarship app, FAFSA, or college application, it's HIS.

I get tired of seeing science fair projects done by parents (oops, projects with parents assisting.......:rolleyes:) when kids who did their own research and experimentation get low scores because their presentation was at grade level instead of being done on daddy's workstation.

You ARE a helicopter parent, of course you don't see any issues with it.

[Cataholic]

I absolutely DO consider myself an overly involved parent. And, my child will reap the benefits of that.

I will give my child every single advantage that I can. And, if you decide to NOT do that for your child, that is OK. But, it is an incredibly competitive world out there. In sports, school, employment, etc. To pretend otherwise is done so at your child's peril. The choices are to join the world as it currently exists, or bemoan the point, and stay stuck in the 1980s (my best guess as to when you might have graduated high school).

If EVERY (or most) kid's science projects are done at daddy's workshop, and they score high, and your kid doesn't- you have a choice there. I know what MY choice would be. Just like in sports. If I *stink* at basketball (and I do), and I want my child to play BB at a higher level, I can continue to work with him and hinder his ability to succeed, OR, I can get him with the right people and have him excel. To suggest I let him flounder, because some other person might call me a HP is simply inane. I care about one thing- MY child's success. If Johnny next door has a parent that wants the school of hard knocks to teach him? Great. Better opportunity for my child to succeed.

I force my child to brush his teeth, to get physical exercise, I pick out his clothes if I deem him dressed inappropriately. I tell him when to go to sleep, to read more, to do math facts, etc. I don't believe in just halting these things, and as life gets MORE difficult, with MORE important decisions, choices, I absolutely will be there.

[Bonny]

Those good old science projects.

I helped my cousins boil up a dead fox in a huge kettle in their basement on the canning stove. It stunk the house up & we were told to take the fox back outside. We ended up using lye to get the meat off the bones. I drew a picture of a fox on some poster paper & we found a dog skeleton diagram at a book store up in St. Paul. We could not afford the book & low & behold a friend that was along with us tore the picture of the dog diagram out of the book. :eek: My aunt was not happy that he had done this. :(

We worked together mounting the bones on a board using my uncles hand drill & wire. Then we glued the description of each bone on paper & matched them up. My cousin got a blue ribbon for his project.

I had a wild carpenter ant farm in a huge pickle jar. I remember drawing a huge carpenter ant on poster paper. I got the ants out of a hill near an old dead log not far from my house. They were tunneling in the pickle jar & we put honey & water in a small Canada Dry lid for them. There was a lid on the pickle jar ant farm & one day my little sister opened it. The ants were escaping all over the house. When we picked them up I remember their mandibles pinching our fingers. Dad said don't hurt them we can get them rounded up. Well we made it to the school gym where it was very cool. The carpenter ants went into hibernation. I remember getting a red ribbon on that project.

Those were the good old days. :D Where our parents left it to our own wild imaginations. :)

[Karen]

Actually, Cataholic, this conversation brings to mind a former coworker of mine I haven't seen in many years. She was such an overly involved parent in her daughter's life that, when that daughter was a mother of three young children herself, and her house was on fire, she called her mother before she called 911 or the fire department! When I heard her mother fairly shouting, "Wendy, hang up with me and call 9-1-1!" more than once, I knew that was a bad sign!* I am sure you are raising Jonah to call 9-1-1 in an actual emergency!

*Thankfully, the fire was just in the top floor, and the children were not injured apart from some smoke inhalation, my coworker called 9-1-1 herself after she hung up with her daughter, just in case!

[Lady's Human]

If EVERY (or most) kid's science projects are done at daddy's workshop, and they score high, and your kid doesn't- you have a choice there. I know what MY choice would be.

My choice is to go to the school board meetings and get the schools to clamp down on projects done out of a can or with parents blatantly doing most of the work.

My son's science project this year is entirely his idea, he's going to do the work, I'm contributing 1 gauge and some time to the effort.

My daughter's science project will involve communication with Osearch to answer question she has for them about their work tracking great whites.

Their grades aren't important to me, as the science fair is extra credit, and frankly, neither child needs the extra credit.

The day I do the bulk of the work for them is the day satan skis. However, you can look around the science fair and easily pick out which projects were the result of the child doing the work and which was the result of the parents.

They are both well in advance of their grade levels on science and math, and they have gotten their mainly on their own. I've assisted, and directed their studying, but I will never give them an answer. They have the tools, they can find the answers themselves.

[Karen]

They have the tools, they can find the answers themselves.

Reading this sentence (and because LH is my brother for those who don't know that) I am suddenly hearing a chorus in my head of "Look it up!"

If any one of us asked "what does xxxxx (fill in word or phrase of your choice) mean?" We'd hear "Look it up!!" from Ma, Pa, older siblings, any grandparents in attendance - there were good unabridged dictionaries on both floor of the house, and we were expected to use them!

[lizbud]

Those good old science projects.

I helped my cousins boil up a dead fox in a huge kettle in their basement on the canning stove. It stunk the house up & we were told to take the fox back outside. We ended up using lye to get the meat off the bones. I drew a picture of a fox on some poster paper & we found a dog skeleton diagram at a book store up in St. Paul. We could not afford the book & low & behold a friend that was along with us tore the picture of the dog diagram out of the book. :eek: My aunt was not happy that he had done this. :(

We worked together mounting the bones on a board using my uncles hand drill & wire. Then we glued the description of each bone on paper & matched them up. My cousin got a blue ribbon for his project.

I had a wild carpenter ant farm in a huge pickle jar. I remember drawing a huge carpenter ant on poster paper. I got the ants out of a hill near an old dead log not far from my house. They were tunneling in the pickle jar & we put honey & water in a small Canada Dry lid for them. There was a lid on the pickle jar ant farm & one day my little sister opened it. The ants were escaping all over the house. When we picked them up I remember their mandibles pinching our fingers. Dad said don't hurt them we can get them rounded up. Well we made it to the school gym where it was very cool. The carpenter ants went into hibernation. I remember getting a red ribbon on that project.

Those were the good old days. :D Where our parents left it to our own wild imaginations. :)


I loved your childhood experience story.LOL :D Hilarious, and I thought my childhood was "interesting".:p Thanks for the chuckles.:D

[RICHARD]

I, as a kid, always dreamed of building a Soap Box Racer.

The closest I got was stealing a metal shopping cart, hacking it up with a hack saw and pushing it around the yard (Carefully hiding it from 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. the next day)

When I looked up the cost of a kit and the time and materials -plus those scary electrical tools - I knew I would never be able to get one made.

That said?

I laugh when I see the SBRs over the last 10 years?

It's all BS from some parent who has a giant workshop and does 95 percent of the work...

I was happy with 4 wheel stuck on rebar and held in place with nails - now the dads do the coefficent of drag tables and build a wind tunnel to test the cars before they ever get out of the garage.


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Today I was watching the news and they were talking about common mistakes on resumes......They were looking for brevity and good spelling, not the twixter short hand and abbreiations that was finding it into some applicant's sheets.

I went 2 skool 4 for years and had a degree in Comp sci.

I guess when you are in doubt, you can ask your parents to correct your spelling, if you aren't sure.

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And regarding 'Look it up?'

Some counties here in KY are voting to allow kids to use cell phones in the class rooms to help them "look up info".

hehehehehehehe...

[mrspunkysmom]

Actually, Cataholic, this conversation brings to mind a former coworker of mine I haven't seen in many years. She was such an overly involved parent in her daughter's life that, when that daughter was a mother of three young children herself, and her house was on fire, she called her mother before she called 911 or the fire department! When I heard her mother fairly shouting, "Wendy, hang up with me and call 9-1-1!" more than once, I knew that was a bad sign!* I am sure you are raising Jonah to call 9-1-1 in an actual emergency!

*Thankfully, the fire was just in the top floor, and the children were not injured apart from some smoke inhalation, my coworker called 9-1-1 herself after she hung up with her daughter, just in case!

This is my concern. If the parents are overly involved, Helping or placing too many restrictions, you get one of two scenarios. The one above where the child remains dependent on the parent or a rebellious child. Neither is good.

I have students in my classroom that can only behave when you re super strict or even mean. They don't know how to manage their own behavior and make decisions. If they are not forced to follow some explicitly stated rules, they run amok.

No one has taught them how to manage their actions or make decision based upon the environment.

That mother was overdoing it a bit.

just my two cents.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I think there are a lot of ways to successfully parent, and no one way is right for everybody. I know how competitive it is in schools today (I work in the education field) - BUT, I also think children need to be given the freedom to fail sometimes. I think that learning from mistakes is an important way to build true self-esteem. I think sometimes that all of the pressure on kids and parents to have an edge or be the best makes this impossible, which is a shame.

The most extreme example I saw of this was at an open house for my PhD program. Doctorate and master's students were at the college to find out more about the programs they had entered. A student who was entering a master's program had her mother with her, and her mom was interviewing the faculty while the student sat silently. She was probably only 22, but as a college graduate I would hope she had the skills to do this without her mother's help...

[sparks19]

We homeschool so no one needs to be threatened about their kids science fair projects lol.

We are all about looking it up... That's practically the homeschool motto. Don't know the answer to something? Well, why don't we do some research.

However, I will not leave Hannah (who is only turning 6 so that's a factor) to get frustrated and discouraged in her education in the name of "suck it up and do it yourself". I remember what school was like for me and I genuinely struggled with different subjects and needed someone to really sit down with me and isolate the issues I was having and help me work through them. I don't ever want to ignore a genuine need for the sake of "learning a lesson".

If that makes me a helicopter parent or if someone else disagrees with my tactics... So what. I am confident in our choices and I don't need validation from other parents. Hannah is a very well rounded child. She is very bright, sociable, and happy. Also, I want to instill self respect over "self esteem".

I don't want her to believe that she's going to be great at everything she ever tries... Because that's a lie. I want her to be able to accept the things she is not so great at without it crushing her. The "you can be great at anything" mentality is why we have weeks of American Idol audition episodes filled with nonsense and people who can't handle rejection.

But I am absolutely going to be there for her and help her

[Karen]

We homeschool so no one needs to be threatened about their kids science fair projects lol.

We are all about looking it up... That's practically the homeschool motto. Don't know the answer to something? Well, why don't we do some research.

That's good! Now, Hannah has the benefit of modern technology, and "looking it up" will not require wresting the unabridged dictionary from its hiding place, which always required two hands - and still would! Computers have made dictionaries available with no straining involved! It's a happy thing!

[Lady's Human]

We homeschool so no one needs to be threatened about their kids science fair projects lol.

The science fair project is an example, a symptom of the disease, if you will. The behavior goes across the spectrum, though. My child isn't going to fail at anything, so I'm going to help him/her with everything.....to the point that they can't do anything by themselves.

[snakemama]

I DO the hiring at my store, and no WAY would I hire someone whose mom came in and talked them up like that. I HAVE hired a few kids whose parent came by to shop and said something like "Are you hiring? My son knows horses and he needs something part-time!"

In the situation Karen described, if I were on the receiving end of that I would be thinking to myself that if the girl couldn't come chat with me about her own qualifications and skills, what CAN she do on her own? I want employees who don't have to be micromanaged and can get stuff done without me guiding them every step of the way. I do NOT want employees who have always had help with everything and therefore can't do anything without guidance.

I have one of those right now. I feel like a preschool teacher because I'm CONSTANTLY having to come up with projects and things for this employee to do. The rest of them can generally figure out what needs doing and only need occasional input from me. THEY get raises, paid holidays, health and dental insurance, and vacation hours. The one who needs constant guidance? I just keep cutting hours....

[Lady's Human]

We homeschool so no one needs to be threatened about their kids science fair projects lol.

BTW, threatened? Hardly.

[Bonny]

snakemama,

Where I work we ended up making a list of things that need to be done for everyday of the week. Then the employees check them off as they are done. You might want to consider doing something like that.

Four years ago we had a parent come to the museum & she wanted her 14 year old daughter to be a tour guide. One of the many directors we have gone through hired her. She is a pain in the butt for sure. We cut her hours also & she can't figure out why? She needs the money but doesn't want to work for it & is broke & can't go of to school because she has NO MONEY. She has worked at the museum for four years & should of socked some money away? :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Bubble Wrap.


Bubble Wrap all children, then put them into a box?;)

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Look it Up.

Growing up, I had the most wonderful reference library at my disposal.

It was about 120 books and it ranged from a kid's encyclopedia to Funk and Wagnalls to some other dictionaries and odds and ends.

Dewey, and his decimal system would have gone crazy because no set was complete.

If you looked at the shelves on either side of the fireplace you have thought that Funk and Wagnalls knew about A thru F and had lost the rest of the alphabet. The same with all the rest of the 'sets'.

My dad would somehow find these jewels, St thru W, a volume of the Time-Life science set, or some other book of knowledge, bring them home and pop them onto the shelf.

It really didn't matter that they were incomplete, they had photos and words, stories of places I wanted to go, stay away from? Wars and peace, animals and plants, time past and time yet to come.

--------------------

It really doesn't matter what you do for a kid or how you treat them growing up.

You have to instill the idea of wonder, the (as hokey as it sounds) thirst for knowledge and information.

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Giving a kid an iPhone or a tablet isn't going to to sh*t for them.

First take them to a Library and show them how to use a book, a reference card, teach them how to THINK ABOUT HOW TO GET THAT ANSWER.

Typing a bing, google or asking that stupid broad on your cell phone is gonna get you the answer that THEY want you to have, It's the answer that everyone else gets, too.

The Paper Trail in the library is fraught with all kinds of pitfalls.

It turns a simple question into a search for an answer with all kinds of detours, u-turns and OTHER questions. You can start at why the sun is hot or what it is made of and end up with quantum mechanics. How's about why plant leaves are green and how that is associated with sunlight? And maybe gets into why a koala only eats eucalyptus leaves, why a panda eats bamboo and you then end up in China at the end of a few hours wandering the aisles of a library?

My 'wireless device' isn't going to allow me to find those answers the way a library will and when you get the bill at the end of the month.......oh, THE LIBRARY WON'T SEND YOU ONE!

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In the evenings we sit down to watch Jeopardy! and at least once during the program Doris and I look at each other and laugh about the inability of a twenty-something to answer a simple - I mean really simple - question.

Sometimes the best players aren't the PhDs, MBA or doctors (We really laugh at them) - it's a bartender, or some nanny, a working stiff from a warehouse? It the people who seek out info and absorb it like a sponge.

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Looking back, I wish I would have had children.

They would bleed from the knees from playing, get into trouble from breaking a window or being out too late.
They would say "Yes Sir" and "No, Ma'am" but would talk too much in the classroom. They'd know what a walk in the park is and learn how to skip rocks in the water.

They would know sports and fixing things, ask me questions that I'd answer, "I don't know, let's go figure this out....."
They'd be rebellious and I'd get compliments about their behavior in public, because like my parents, I go corporal on their arses, then explain why and what they needed to do to prevent that in the future.

Then I would tell them that I loved them.

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The other phenomenon is the "Tiger Mom Syndrome".

Um, you can take my word for it, or you can look it up.:eek::p

[RICHARD]

My mother didn't have enough time to do anything for me ( she was a chronic house cleaner) & I was basically was on my own when it came to getting a ride to the unemployment office to apply for my first job. It was not a safe ride either. Russell a hood from Chicago who was living up the street with a family was good enough to drive me up to St. Paul to the employment office. I took a bunch of tests while he waited for me & then he drove me back home & he skipped out of town because the police wanted to talk to him.:eek: I ended up going to my first job interview by myself (took the city bus this time) & got the job. I was a whole 18 years old then.

Anyhow it can go either way in my book. You can do everything for a child & they may not learn a darn thing, or you can do nothing & hopefully they will learn something.

Ummm, It's none of my business but, What happened to Russell the Hood and do you ever think/thank him for what he did for you?;)

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When I first got out into the workforce, my drama/spanish lit teach pulled me aside and said, "Do you need a job for the summer, I know the EEO coordinator at a hospital up the street, go talk to her....."

I went in and spoke to her and said, "Mr Duran sent me over to talk to you about a job."

She told me that I was the only one from my high school who had come by and I was hired, show up on July 5!

I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

[smokey the elder]

I'm not saying don't help your children and advise them. But like LH said there is a spectrum of assistance and some parents (IMO) go too far one way ("Son (or daughter)...you're on your own!") or the other, as in the OP's example.

[kuhio98]

...
I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

That's been my experience too. When is "helping" really not being helpful in the long run? My example: We have a friend who is a single parent of twin girls. When they were children she "helped" them with every task. She had them on a strict schedule of school, homework etc. She set a timer and they had to brush their teeth or brush their hair or do their homework until the timer went off. She had them start their homework over if they made a mistake because she didn't want it to be messy with erasure marks. She said it was her job as a parent to make sure they did not make mistakes.

They grew up to be frightened, insecure, nervous wrecks. They were so afraid of making a mistake that they didn't even know how to think for themselves. We had them to our house for a sleepover when they were 10 or 11 or so. They did not know how to play. They needed us to give them specific instructions on what to do every moment or else they freaked out. We asked them to put on a play for us. They looked at us like deer in the headlights. They asked us what the play should be about. We told them to make it up. More startled stares. Finally, they gave up and said that they couldn't think of anything on their own. I thought their spirits and immagination were crushed and would never recover.

But, there was some determination left in them that their mother hadn't managed to damage. So, they went off to college as far away from their mother as they could get. They made huge, life changing mistakes because they had no experience in making little mistakes and recovering from them. They had no ability to recover from mistakes at all. They did not have the confidence that comes from making mistakes, dealing with them, recovering from them, etc.

They are getting out of college now. They have no relationship with their mother. They blame her for their obsessive/complusive disorders. Their eating/food issues. Their paralyzing fear of trying something new. Their lack of confidence.

I do see glimmers of hope, though. One of the twins has applied to become a police officer. (She is obviously drawn to rules and structure). She gave us the affidavit paperwork to fill out as character witnesses. She said she was not giving it to her mother because she had "helped" enough and made her life a real misery.

This example may seem extreme, but my point is, don't help and save your children from making mistakes. Let them make mistakes as children so that they can learn, recover and grow from them. Don't rob them of the chance to make mistakes and gain self-confidence and self-assurance. Let them have successes on their own -- without your help and interference. That momentary childhood pain could help save them from a lifetime of unhappiness if they become insecure and frightened adults.

I hope that in time the twins will see that their mother did the best she knew how to do.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my Mother (Cathryne) and Father (Donald) for letting me make mistakes, get dirty, screw up, take my punishment and learn from my mistakes. You gave me such a wonderful gift even though I may not have thought so at the time. You showed your confidence in me by letting me fail at times. And because of that, I gained confidence in myself and my abilities. Thank You! :love::love::love:

[RICHARD]

And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my Mother (Cathryne) and Father (Donald) for letting me make mistakes, get dirty, screw up, take my punishment and learn from my mistakes. You gave me such a wonderful gift even though I may not have thought so at the time. You showed your confidence in me by letting me fail at times. And because of that, I gained confidence in myself and my abilities. Thank You! :love::love::love:

What a great tribute.:)

----------

I remember hearing the old line about 'This is hurting me more than it's going to hurt you......'

I thought, "Yeah right, I am the one getting me arse polished....."

It wasn't until years later that I figured it out.

It hurt my mom that she had to correct my stupidity.

It hurt her because I was a 'product' of her parenting. She had to correct that 'malfunction' because it reflected on her parenting skills and she wasn't going to to let me run about like a little savage.:cool:

[RICHARD]

I had to laugh and give this guy a huge thumbs up.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dad-wears-short-shorts-to-teach-daughter-a-lesson--becomes-online-celeb-171218029.html

I hope he also practiced the 'Squat and Pluck' that I see all the time....


(I wonder how much time she spent primping her self up to look like a little trollop and how many facial experssions she practiced in the mirror before she hit the right one?)

[Bonny]

Ummm, It's none of my business but, What happened to Russell the Hood and do you ever think/thank him for what he did for you?;)

---------------------

When I first got out into the workforce, my drama/spanish lit teach pulled me aside and said, "Do you need a job for the summer, I know the EEO coordinator at a hospital up the street, go talk to her....."

I went in and spoke to her and said, "Mr Duran sent me over to talk to you about a job."

She told me that I was the only one from my high school who had come by and I was hired, show up on July 5!

I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

I never saw Russell again. Yes, I thanked him. I was grateful Russell gave me a ride up to the unemployment office & back home safely. I never did ask him what he had done to have the police looking for him. I hope he made it back to Chicago safely & life has treated him good because he was good person. I have run into a lot of great people in my life who have helped me along the way & Russell was one of them. :) I bet your drama/spanish lit teacher has to be one of those great people in your life too. :cool:

[Cataholic]

I shake my head at some of the stories that come up on this forum. If you find yourself in situations where you ONLY know weirdos, you might want to re-think your circle of contacts.

[Lady's Human]

I shake my head at some of the stories that come up on this forum. If you find yourself in situations where you ONLY know weirdos, you might want to re-think your circle of contacts.

It all depends on your perspective.

What's weird to me might be perfectly normal to you, and vice versa.

Frankly, I find normal boring, and conformation to superficial goals pointless.

[Bonny]

Cataholic,

I have some questions?

Do you think you are so far above everyone just because you are a Lawyer & you are educated?

You had better take a good look at who you are & what God put you on this earth to do?

There are a lot of different people out here & you know they all deserve a chance to shine be they weird in your eyes.

[RICHARD]

The milk of human kindness comes in all kinds of containers.

It's when people hold their nose and say, "I ain't drinking outta no plastic bottle..." is when they lose the chance to enjoy people of all kinds.

-------------------

I am sure Russell may not have realized that his kindness is still remembered after all these years.

I am sure he'd be pleased.

-----------

My Spanish Lit teacher went on to be a consultant of some kind in Washington D.C. and yes, I never have forgotten him.:cool:


-----------


"helicopter mom" crash and burn?


http://news.yahoo.com/scathing-obit-abusive-nv-mother-goes-viral-211215789.html

[carole]

simple answer from me, never have,never will ,however i would help them with an online application if necessary, but found both my kids never needed my help, they did fine by themselves.:)

[Alysser]

The story of Russell made me a smile a little :) Never judge a book by its cover! and it's definitely things like that you remember! :D

[sparks19]

Maybe part of my opinion comes from my experience with the young kids we work with at preschool. It is very obvious which children have involved parents and which ones don't and it's sad. We get kids whose parents just open the door upstairs and just send them downstairs on their own and we rarely see the parent and usually those are the kids who don't know the beginning of their ABC's or counting or even how to interact.

On the flip side, we do have those parents who hang around way too long and actually end up upsetting the child more than helping them but overall the child is bright and well rounded.

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

[Karen]

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

I absolutely think there are many levels of grey area! How much help is too much has likely been debated since the dawn of parenthood!

[Lady's Human]

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

Black and white? Huh???????:confused:

Funny, I've seen many shades of gray mentioned here.

[RICHARD]

Black and white? Huh???????:confused:

Funny, I've seen many shades of gray mentioned here.

At least '50'?:eek:;)

-------------------------

I sat here laughing because I love all things 'aviation' and the thought of a helicopter parent makes my head hurt.

Just take a stool, set it up under a room fan and stick your head into the vanes.....same principle?

-----------

Parents should be flight school/tanker parents.

Sit the kids down near a runway, do a little demonstration, then put them into a simulator.

Let them crash and burn a few times, then take them up for a little instruction (don't forget to teach them how and when to use a parachute......they may have to bail out?) let them solo and give them their wings.


Let the kids buzz about for a while then, if needed?


57134

Give them a little fuel to make it a little farther on their trip.

No need to hover, just be there to give them a little help.

---------------------

About the parachute?

Some kids will need one - flying isn't a perfect science and giving the kid a chance to bail out is part of the 'life curriculum'. No need to shame them when they do have to bail out.

It's about giving them a choice.

My parents gave me my instruction, parachute and wings.

I have crash and burned, bailed out and flown higher than I ever thought I could.

It's not about black or white, It's about how blue the sky is and being able to go as high as I want.

And when I need to set it down..........

[RICHARD]

The story of Russell made me a smile a little :) Never judge a book by its cover! and it's definitely things like that you remember! :D

My mom worked as a cashier for years and she would tell some stories about how people would intimidate her while she helped them.

One time she related a story about how a bunch of 'Hell's Angels' types came into the store.

She was at the register and they got into her line.

As she told the story she said that these guys were "bigger than you and huge" - I am 6'2" and weighed about 220 at the time.....My mom was 4'11' and maybe 100 lbs on a good day?

She said she was nervous and freaking out when the first 'biker dude' put his stuff on the counter and started the transaction.......

A good story would be that they held her up, took her as hostage and she was rescued by a police SWAT team, but she became more and more animated as the story went on......

"This guy had tattoos and earrings, looked like he needed a bath, but........HE WAS THE NICEST GUY!"

"He asked me how I was, and said to me 'Yes, ma'am' and he was sooooo polite".

(I laughed because I was waiting for her to say she was going to the clubhouse to cook for them or go for a ride on their next Sunday get together......)

She was so impressed by that encounter that whenever she saw a biker on the street, she'd make it a point to tell me about the seeing them when I caught up with her.:D

[Bonny]

Richard, Your mom is the same height that the real Laura Ingalls Wilder was 4' 11". Those biker dudes look mean & tuff but they are good souls. You just don't want to touch their bikes. :eek:

A couple years back I was alone working at the museum. It was a cold blustery day & I saw these two guys on foot dressed in suits with trench coats on. I am thinking thugs, muggers, their going to rob the place & hit me over the head with their hidden under their coats revolvers. I thought to myself lock the doors so they can't get into the visitors center NOW!

It was to late they came through the front door. I greeted them like I do everyone else, knees shaking, had them sign the guest book. They asked if they could us the restrooms, sure go ahead. I am thinking yup use the restroom then rob the place.

They both appeared once again in front of the counter. I mentioned the lousy weather & asked them where they were from, Utah. They were two Mormon boys spreading the good news & they offered me one of their Mormon Bibles. I had to turn them down though, because I already had one given to my family & I when we visited a church in Utah.

So judging a book by its cover came true for me once again. Oh, us humans are so human :D

[RICHARD]

I went out to do the lawn and was thinking about this thread and how pompous I am.

I have no children, so, I need to apologize to all the parents out there.

Um,
I am sorry I laughed at you and your child when you came over and your little one would not leave your arms and cried when you tried to put them down so we could have a conversation.

I am sorry that I wouldn't talk 'adult' when you refused to tell the kids to leave the room.

I am sorry that I made your children cry harder when I refused to give them a treat to get them to be quiet.

I am sorry that I scolded your children when they misbehaved and you could care less.

I am sorry that your child said to you, "Let's ask uncle Richard, he knows the answer..."

I am sorry that you had to leave your kids with me when they refused to go on vacation with you - and they told you that they would have more fun hanging with me.

I am sorry when I started to do something with them and they told me, "My parents won't let me do --------" and heartbroken when they told me, "Please don't tell them we ----------."

I am sorry your kidlets came to me and asked me for advice because 'mom and dad don't listen, understand, get mad."

I am sorry that I put a helmet on your kid and took them around the block on the motorcycle, Mom and Dad suck when it comes to speed.

I am sorry that you had to work that screwed up shift and I took the kids during that time.

I am sorry you had to say, "Behave or I will tell uncle Richard". That must hurt to know I have more sway over your kids and I can talk to them and instill more fear that you could?

I am sorry your kid wanted a drink of my beer, I gave them one and laughed at the face they made.

I am sorry about the time we went camping and the kids didn't want to hang with you, instead they wanted to play cards and learn how to gamble from me.

I am sorry I showed them how to use a knife when we were in the kitchen and hope you never find out that I let them use a power drill, screwdriver or hammer when they were 6.

There is a bunch of other stuff that you should know, but I am bound by my word and the trust YOUR children put into me, I apologize for that, too.

Anyway, those are the things that I am sorry for and I hope that by virtue of you having children, that your wisdom, knowledge and respect will far outweigh any that I may leech from your offspring.

Much love,
Uncle Richard.

[RICHARD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q3idQKi5EqM

Check out the guy on the left.

Is that what it feels like when you have to deal with a 'autogyro parent'?

[RICHARD]

My mom wasn't a helicopter mom, she was more a bi-plane mom.

57137

My one favorite 'bit of wisdom' and bomb she dropped on us kids was this little jewel.......

We'd come to her after some trauma/drama/stupidity that we had caused to ourselves and after we told her the story, she'd say....

"WHO SENT YOU?"

That was code for 'You should have thought about it before you got into trouble.'

IF it was a huge earth-shaking event, she'd help, otherwise we had to sit down, eat a large helping of humble pie, then figure out how we were going to fix things.

-------------

To this day, when I see someone doing something stupid I stop and think about 'who sent them'!

:cool: