Gun control discussion

[Karen]

Any gun control discussion should be moved to this thread, instead of the Colorado shooting incident thread. I will be PM'ing everyone who posted such in that thread, and then deleting those post (will PM their contents to each poster respectively) so we keep that thread, which is in General, after all, a respectful thread and place to remember the victims and their families, and everyone affected by this tragedy.

[RICHARD]

When we outlaw guns we'll have to outlaw the rachel ray knife sets, cars, craftsman tools, baseball bats, pencils, pens, sharp sticks and rocks.

And the candle stick Professor Plum used in the Library?;)

[Cataholic]

We don't need gun control, we need people control. :(

[pomtzu]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property??? :rolleyes:

ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!

[cassiesmom]

There have been a lot of shootings on the streets of Chicago this summer. According to the papers the hot weather just makes everything more tense and stressful, added to other factors like gangs, drugs, poverty, family problems, un- and under-employment. The city acknowledges that people who shouldn't be able to get guns can still get them outside of the proper steps. They are trying to increase summer programs for kids like sports, arts, and school tutoring by working with the park district, community organizations and churches. They are also trying to create more summer jobs, both through the city departments and private employers, for older kids. The gangs take them in younger and younger, which is tragic. There is sad news every week about people being shot. Not just in the city of Chicago but some of the suburbs as well where there are the same problems. I think it will take a combination of the right gun laws, plus action against gangs and drugs and improved community services to turn this around. It is just very sad, whether it is someone who goes on a shooting spree like the one in Colorado or constant gun violence every week like we have in parts of Chicagoland. :(

[Alysser]

We don't need gun control, we need people control. :(

Brilliantly stated in a simple way. I agree, 100%.

Gun control is ineffective on people who commit mass slayings. They have nothing to loss, just don't care, etc. They apparently don't care much about the lives they've ruined much less the gun laws they broke. I don't think people really have use for automatic weapons either, but it is your constitutional right to have them yet even that is being taken away. I do believe in the right to bear arms because I believe the principles of which this country was founded on. My point is, the gun is NOT the issue, and someone could argue that with me until they are blue in the face, but I will never believe it is. The gun doesn't shoot itself. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get these weapons, maybe you don't need 'em, but you do have a right to own them and that shouldn't be taken away because of psycho paths who wouldn't follow the laws and would find a different way to get them anyway.

[RICHARD]

I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.

-------------------------

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Unless you get pistol whipped.

[Asiel]

Guns are banned here unless registered. I wouldn't want a gun in the house anyway. No matter what they do there will always be someone who's a menace to others even without a gun. If someone is intent on doing something crazy then they will find a way--

[Lady's Human]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property??? :rolleyes:


A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.

[Karen]

I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.


I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

[blue]

Gun control means using both hands.

[pomtzu]

A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.

Pardon my ignorance of the "proper" name for the weapons I was referring to, but I do believe most people here understand my meaning.
Anything bigger than a 22 pistol (is that correct???), is overkill. JMHO of course.
And of course since this thread has the potential to get hot, I'm done, since I've stated my opinion and it makes no sense at all for me to beat a dead horse.

[smokey the elder]

Unfortunately, the laws (for any criminal act) do account for "outliers" since this is the portion of the population that commits crimes.
I agree about the mental health issues; only when these get the attention hear disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. do will progress be made.

In terms of gun control per se: I'm in the "enforce the laws we've got" camp. Most firearm owners are responsible individuals. I like to compare it to having a car and driver's license. Many accidents and fatalities are caused by irresponsible driving behavior, or even unlicensed drivers. For the most part (it isn't perfect) motor vehicle codes work fairly well. If gun laws worked as well maybe we'd have some progress on gun crimes.

[RICHARD]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property??? :rolleyes:

ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!

One thing that I caught, that may be an error on my part, is the "bulletproof" equipment he was wearing.

I was looking at one of the shipping/purchase receipts that came from the store he was supposed to have purchased them from?

The first item was an "assault vest" which is just vest you can hang/carry things on.

He did have a kelvar helmet, which can stop some bullets.

Another misnomer is the term 'bullet proof' isn't true. Some munitions are defeat body armor unless you are wearing a ceramic or steel insert in the clothing.

Another fun fact?

You can defeat a kelvar vest with a knife if you stab the person wearing it slowly.
--------------------------------------------

The assault rifle (all guns are 'assaulting' if used against an innocent person) he had can be purchased legally thanks to the expiration of the laws, which, by the way, our prez decided NOT to re-sign into law after he went into office.

We don't know if he had converted the semi into an auto fire weapon (parts are available over the internet) which may have caused the gun to jam.

There are quite a few questions that are unanswered so far.

People and the media just need to know the right ones to ask.

--------------------------------------

I have some loose bricks in the back yard that are looking pretty dangerous to me, what should I do?
We also don't know if he had done any shooting before the incident.

[RICHARD]

I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

I was being facetious.

I also love the idea that Dr Drew and all the other kooks on TV are trying to figure out if this guy is crazy.

Uh, you think?

Everyone has a certain 'bent' -I am a person who sees a sign or warning and immediately want to do the opposite.

Am I crazy? I think so, but I try not to succumb so easily to my stupdity/urges.

I draw the line at stopping a fan with my tongue.:confused:

[sparks19]

it's already illegal for people to kill other people (unless in self defense). so what makes ANYONE think that illegal guns would have stopped this sicko? Oh this gun is illegal? Oh well then i won't go commit mass murder.

Illegal guns are easier to find here than one might think. drugs are illegal here too but we seem to have QUITE the drug problem in this country that's costing us billions in the "war against drugs" that is WORTHLESS.

then of course one can go onto google or youtube and get step by step instructions on how to make a homemade bomb.

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

why is everyone always fighting about gun laws and never about the dismal way we handle the mentally ill. once you are 18 nothing can be done to force someone into a mental health facility unless they do something like this. We are a "bare minimum" mindset when it comes to mental illness. this guys mother even said after the fact that she's not at all surprised he did this. what does that tell you? does taht tell you that if guns were illegal he would have just gone on with life? NO it does NOT! and the fact that he booby trapped his apartment with bombs and the like. did he just buy those at the corner store?

LAWS do not matter to the non law abiding. like I said it's already illegal to murder people so why didn't that law stop him?

This is all so very unfortunate but should be looked at as a "how do we improve help for the mentally ill in this country" instead of "OMG ban ALL THE WEAPONS" people will always hurt people no matter what tool they use. We need to find a way to TREAT these people BEFORE it gets to this point. but banning guns is simpler right? A bandaid is all it is

[sparks19]

Translations: Romanian
Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"
One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!
The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"
"Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.
They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!
By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997

[momcat]

Like any other city, there's a lot of shooting in Trenton. There was a story in today's paper about a 76 year old woman who shot and killed her husband. Someone was shot to death about a block from where we live. Sadly, it's a city wide every day event here. I'm terrified of all guns - legal as well as illegal.

[Lady's Human]

Like any other city, there's a lot of shooting in Trenton. There was a story in today's paper about a 76 year old woman who shot and killed her husband. Someone was shot to death about a block from where we live. Sadly, it's a city wide every day event here. I'm terrified of all guns - legal as well as illegal.


Why be terrified of an inanimate object? It's a tool, a mindless, driveless piece of metal. It has no motives of its own. It takes a person to use the tool, and if the person who's using it is evil, it will be used for evil. However, it doesn't take a gun. It could be a knife, a car, or a semi full of fertilizer and fuel.

[cassiesmom]

I read in the newspaper this morning that a group of pastors in Chicago have gotten together and called for a "weekend of peace". I hope it truly happens. There are sad stories on the news almost nonstop around here.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-clergy-declare-peace-weekend-20120724,0,4793404.story

I'm with momcat - guns terrify me. To be more specific- what terrifies me is that they keep ending up in the hands of impulsive young gangbangers. Or of mentally unstable people (remember the Northern Illinois University shootings on Valentine's Day 2008?) who get hold of a bunch of weapons and shoot up a public place. I should not have to be afraid every time I go out in public. I think my right to be safe and free from fear trumps the right of someone who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place to go on a shooting spree. Something has to be done to keep these incidents from happening. How to manage chronic city-based gun violence is a lot different from a mentally unstable person in a movie theater or a college lecture hall, though.

[Randi]

Because it's a right to own a gun in the US doesn't mean it's right. Have you ever wondered how other countries are surviving without everyone having one.

Yes, I know that if someone really wants to use a gun he/she will get one somehow, but it will be a lot more difficult, and the person might have had time to cool off before he kill someone.

Btw, is it allowed in all States in the US? And how about Canada?

[phesina]

That's what I've been wondering... Are the gun murder and violence rates much WORSE in countries with strict gun control laws (Canada? England? Denmark? etc.?) than in the U.S.?

.. because after all, the bad guys will always manage to get ahold of the weapons but the good people will not be able to arm themselves for protection? ....

[Alysser]

No one said it makes it right, but perhaps if you lived in "the land of the free", you'd understand where we are coming from a bit better. The US was built on a foundation of freedom, and the right to own a gun is one of the freedoms.

LH brought up another point. Elyse, you are right, you shouldn't fear going out in public. But a gun isn't the only thing that is used to kill people that is legal. Fine, make it harder for someone to get a gun...do you think that's really going to stop someone?? Not a chance. They can use an axe, a home-made bomb, gasoline and a match, even a car. The point is, you shouldn't have to fear these objects (including guns), but in today's society you have to. We can't ban every single object that you can use to kill someone with. If you ban the gun, there's always going to be something else to use. The problem does not lie with the object used. It lies with the person using it.

[robinh]

I've enjoyed reading what everyone had to say (very interesting and diverse, by the way). I don't make a big deal out of my views on this issue and I've hesitated to wade in, but here is my two cents worth.

I was terrified of guns for many years, even the small pellet gun my mom owned. My SO and his father took me to a gun range and taught me how to shoot. They taught me how to tear a gun apart and clean it. Once I understood the safety rules and how a gun fired, I felt less frightened. I also learned - guns don't kill people, people kill people using guns.

I currently own two handguns; a revolver and a semi-automatic. To acquire those guns, I had to apply for a permit to buy and go through a background check. I've taken a gun safety course and through my local county sheriff's office have been allowed to have a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon if I choose....which I never have. I go to the gun range and shoot them infrequently. I'm a law abiding citizen. I don't promote guns to anyone nor would I insist someone buy, own or shoot a gun; but I also believe that if I follow the laws, someone shouldn't be able to tell me I can't own a gun.

Criminals will always find a way to get a gun because they don't get them legally. I'm not sure that banning weapons will accomplish keeping them out of the hands of criminals, it will just make it harder for honest citizens to own a gun.


:confused:Can't tell you how many times I've edited this before posting.

[Edwina's Secretary]

No one said it makes it right, but perhaps if you lived in "the land of the free", you'd understand where we are coming from a bit better. The US was built on a foundation of freedom, and the right to own a gun is one of the freedoms.

I live in "the land of the free". Have for a long time. And I don't understand where you are coming from. Not everyone agrees that the right to own a gun is one of those freedoms. That is one interpretation of the Second Amendment.

I do not feel any need to own a gun to feel free. In fact, like Cassiemom's I am afraid of guns. I will not be in a house where there is a gun. I will leave if I find out there is a firearm in the house. It is just too dangerous. My husband would not let his children go to play in houses with guns. Too, too dangerous.

You cannot logically compare a gun to an automobile or a knife or an ax or a can of gasoline. There is a fundamental difference. A car exists to transport people, a knife or ax to cut - food, wood, cloth, etc. Gasoline is to fuel a vehicle. That they may kill is incidental to the purpose for which they exist. Bathtubs can kill too.

A gun exist to kill. Kill. Mostly people. And if you get a fancy enough gun - you can kill lots of people very fast. Guns have no other purpose. They were not invented for sport or for protection. The only "protection" they are perceived to offer is to kill. They were invented to kill.

And that is my opinion. Now the "usual suspects" will flail away saying how wrong I am, etc, etc, etc.... Don't care. I am not going to change my mind - neither will they.

p.s. Did you read about the police officer this week who thought he shot and killed an intruder? Opps! It was his son....

[Karen]

A gun exist to kill. Kill. Mostly people. And if you get a fancy enough gun - you can kill lots of people very fast. Guns have no other purpose. They were not invented for sport or for protection. The only "protection" they are perceived to offer is to kill. They were invented to kill.

I have fired guns many times. I never killed any one or any thing with one. I grew up with guns in the house, and was taught to respect them. Target shooting is a sport. Not one I am very good at, but it is a sport, and doing it well takes skill. Heck, it is an Olympic sport! Police are trained with guns, and trained when to shoot to disable a suspect, not to kill him or her. A gun can be used to do things other than kill. Honest. And the noise from a gun can frighten off wild animals without killing them.

No gun can kill many people as quickly as a single explosive device can. Like a land mine left in place years after a war is over that can go on killing and maiming without any human help. No gun can do that.

Guns are not good. Guns are not evil. Guns are tools.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I absolutely agree with you Karen. Guns are tools. I just don't like the function that particular "tool" is designed to do - kill.

A gun is not designed to scare off a wild animal - Heck...I can scare off a wild animal without a gun...a whistle maybe? Two metal garbage can lids? Won't kill them either.

I oppose land mines every bit as much as I oppose guns. Perhaps even more. I also oppose nuclear weapons. All tools. All designed to kill.

It is not the trained police I am worried about...it is the Rambo wannabes out there!

[mrspunkysmom]

I absolutely agree with you Karen. Guns are tools. I just don't like the function that particular "tool" is designed to do - kill.

A gun is not designed to scare off a wild animal - Heck...I can scare off a wild animal without a gun...a whistle maybe? Two metal garbage can lids? Won't kill them either.

I oppose land mines every bit as much as I oppose guns. Perhaps even more. I also oppose nuclear weapons. All tools. All designed to kill.

It is not the trained police I am worried about...it is the Rambo wannabes out there!

I looked for a LIKE button! Yes, the wannabe heroes are scary. And there is just no reason for anyone to own an assault rifle. Or carry a gun. I think these "tools" make it too easy to kill and not make it up close and personal.

Off my soapbox. Have a great night!

[pomtzu]

I live in "the land of the free". Have for a long time. And I don't understand where you are coming from. Not everyone agrees that the right to own a gun is one of those freedoms. That is one interpretation of the Second Amendment.

I do not feel any need to own a gun to feel free. In fact, like Cassiemom's I am afraid of guns. I will not be in a house where there is a gun. I will leave if I find out there is a firearm in the house. It is just too dangerous. My husband would not let his children go to play in houses with guns. Too, too dangerous.

You cannot logically compare a gun to an automobile or a knife or an ax or a can of gasoline. There is a fundamental difference. A car exists to transport people, a knife or ax to cut - food, wood, cloth, etc. Gasoline is to fuel a vehicle. That they may kill is incidental to the purpose for which they exist. Bathtubs can kill too.

A gun exist to kill. Kill. Mostly people. And if you get a fancy enough gun - you can kill lots of people very fast. Guns have no other purpose. They were not invented for sport or for protection. The only "protection" they are perceived to offer is to kill. They were invented to kill.

And that is my opinion. Now the "usual suspects" will flail away saying how wrong I am, etc, etc, etc.... Don't care. I am not going to change my mind - neither will they.

p.s. Did you read about the police officer this week who thought he shot and killed an intruder? Opps! It was his son....

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I couldn't let the opportunity go by to say I agree with this post 100%!

[blue]

The freedom is the Right to Protect Yourself. Be it with a hammer, a bat, a screwdriver, and yes a firearm. So if you are afraid of a firearm, you should be afraid of all house hold tools as well. As Charles Manson once said, "I can kill you with this book!"

[AvaJoy]

it's already illegal for people to kill other people (unless in self defense). so what makes ANYONE think that illegal guns would have stopped this sicko? Oh this gun is illegal? Oh well then i won't go commit mass murder.

Illegal guns are easier to find here than one might think. drugs are illegal here too but we seem to have QUITE the drug problem in this country that's costing us billions in the "war against drugs" that is WORTHLESS.

then of course one can go onto google or youtube and get step by step instructions on how to make a homemade bomb.

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

why is everyone always fighting about gun laws and never about the dismal way we handle the mentally ill. once you are 18 nothing can be done to force someone into a mental health facility unless they do something like this. We are a "bare minimum" mindset when it comes to mental illness. this guys mother even said after the fact that she's not at all surprised he did this. what does that tell you? does taht tell you that if guns were illegal he would have just gone on with life? NO it does NOT! and the fact that he booby trapped his apartment with bombs and the like. did he just buy those at the corner store?

LAWS do not matter to the non law abiding. like I said it's already illegal to murder people so why didn't that law stop him?

This is all so very unfortunate but should be looked at as a "how do we improve help for the mentally ill in this country" instead of "OMG ban ALL THE WEAPONS" people will always hurt people no matter what tool they use. We need to find a way to TREAT these people BEFORE it gets to this point. but banning guns is simpler right? A bandaid is all it is

I think the above bears repeating. Especially this sentence:

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

I also don't get why he is referred to as the alleged killer . . . so absurd. Wonder why he TOLD the police that his apt. was booby-trapped with explosives . . . gee, maybe he felt a twinge of remorse for the murders he had just committed and didn't want to cause any more carnage. :rolleyes: Of course I jest. Like other young mass murders have done, at least he could have killed himself but no . . . he wanted to stick around to bask in all the media attention. Too bad the cops couldn't have just dispatched him. I doubt he is mentally ill . . . unless being an intelligent, egomaniacal sociopath who craved fame at any cost could be classified as such. Now it will cost the taxpayers as he is put through the legal trial process. :mad:

[RICHARD]

The freedom is the Right to Protect Yourself. Be it with a hammer, a bat, a screwdriver, and yes a firearm. So if you are afraid of a firearm, you should be afraid of all house hold tools as well. As Charles Manson once said, "I can kill you with this book!"

You can kill someone with a magazine, too.

----------------------------------

Proper training with a firearm, any firearm, educates and puts the 'power' into a person. Not the 'power' of being able to kill something, but the power over the object.

Ever wonder what the "United States" would be like if we didn't have firearms?

Well,

We'd probably speak 'British', stop for afternoon tea and Tex/Mex food would be served with scones.

Yeah, We'd have more Native Americans, buffalo and Mexico would own the Alamo now.

------------------------------------

I grew up near Lost Angeles, where we invented and perfected the "drive-by shooting". That never kept me from going outside - yea, I lived in an area where gangs were about.

If we do outlaw guns and only let the Police depts carry?

Do we trust them to do the right thing?

People in Anaheim CA -in the Orange County area are pretty ticked off over a shooting incident, actually two in the last week. Alledgedly an unarmed person was shot in the back fleeing from a cop and another shot at the police.

Interesting.

------------------------------

In the Olympic Games there are comps with airguns, small bore rifles and shotguns.

There are also archery competitions, but we'll leave that for the Hunger Games fans.

[Alysser]

I live in "the land of the free". Have for a long time. And I don't understand where you are coming from. Not everyone agrees that the right to own a gun is one of those freedoms. That is one interpretation of the Second Amendment.

I do not feel any need to own a gun to feel free. In fact, like Cassiemom's I am afraid of guns. I will not be in a house where there is a gun. I will leave if I find out there is a firearm in the house. It is just too dangerous. My husband would not let his children go to play in houses with guns. Too, too dangerous.

You cannot logically compare a gun to an automobile or a knife or an ax or a can of gasoline. There is a fundamental difference. A car exists to transport people, a knife or ax to cut - food, wood, cloth, etc. Gasoline is to fuel a vehicle. That they may kill is incidental to the purpose for which they exist. Bathtubs can kill too.

A gun exist to kill. Kill. Mostly people. And if you get a fancy enough gun - you can kill lots of people very fast. Guns have no other purpose. They were not invented for sport or for protection. The only "protection" they are perceived to offer is to kill. They were invented to kill.

And that is my opinion. Now the "usual suspects" will flail away saying how wrong I am, etc, etc, etc.... Don't care. I am not going to change my mind - neither will they.

p.s. Did you read about the police officer this week who thought he shot and killed an intruder? Opps! It was his son....

You have your opinion as I have mine. I am not saying your wrong, but I don't necessarily agree with you, no harm in that. I doubt people own a gun to feel free, personally, that'd just seems like a dumb reason to own a gun.

You can compare them, because despite the function of all these objects they can kill people. If you fear a gun sitting in a safe somewhere inside someone's house, you may as well fear the knife set sitting on top of the kitchen counter. It doesn't matter that a car, gasoline, or even a bathtub weren't made to kill - in the wrong hands those things can be used for such purposes just the same as a gun. I am not arguing against the true purpose of a gun, but the purpose of something doesn't matter in the wrong hands.

[Edwina's Secretary]

.

Ever wonder what the "United States" would be like if we didn't have firearms?

Yes, I do...and a beautiful dream it is!


There is curling in the Olympics too. But that does not make the purpose of a broom anything but a tool designed to sweep the kitchen floor!

It is interesting no one can come up with a purpose for a gun that does not involve killing, threatening to kill, maiming or threatening to maim...

[cassiesmom]

Can the increase in gun violence be attributed to the increased depictions of violence we see in movies, video games and on TV? I also think guns are still too easy for convicted felons, dangerously mentally ill people and teenage gangbangers to get their hands on -- despite changes to gun laws. When I was a staff nurse I learned that in the gang world, it is considered a mark of honor for a gang member to shoot another person with the result being a head or spinal cord injury. Your opponent doesn't die, but his life is changed forever. You move up on the gang totem pole because you're the one who did it, even if you spend the rest of your life in prison. An honor student going home from school on a CTA bus was shot and killed. What is wrong with that picture. He was mis-identified as a rival gang member, shot and killed. There are the incidents like the one where Rep. Giffords was shot and then there's the chronic daily gun violence affecting Chicago and I am sure other cities too. Just no easy answers. I think it is going to take a combination of the right laws, better use of technology to make sure the wrong people aren't obtaining them in the first place, plus improved access for kids to get jobs, good education no matter where they live; better extra-curriculars like arts, sports and other activities, and just hope for a future other than ending up dead or in prison. I heard about one group that was having inner-city elementary school children work in community gardens. The food they grew went to their homes and food pantries, they had fun doing it and learned to work together to make a garden grow.

[Karen]

It is interesting no one can come up with a purpose for a gun that does not involve killing, threatening to kill, maiming or threatening to maim...

I don't think target shooting kills, threatens or maims anything! Last I knew, paper or wooden targets did not have fears or emotions.

And after all, nail guns help build houses, and might not have been invented without gun technology being improved and developed ... just a thought!

[blue]

Yes, I do...and a beautiful dream it is!


There is curling in the Olympics too. But that does not make the purpose of a broom anything but a tool designed to sweep the kitchen floor!

It is interesting no one can come up with a purpose for a gun that does not involve killing, threatening to kill, maiming or threatening to maim...

Holmes could kill you with that curling broom.

[blue]

I don't think target shooting kills, threatens or maims anything! Last I knew, paper or wooden targets did not have fears or emotions.

And after all, nail guns help build houses, and might not have been invented without gun technology being improved and developed ... just a thought!

Now dont go bringing logic to an anti gunner, that never ends well.

[chocolatepuppy]

I have a loaded gun on my dresser. I have never killed anyone, nor has the gun got off the dresser by itself and killed anyone. But then no one has tried to come through my back door in the middle of the night, yet.

[Catty1]

Avajoy - the term "alleged killer" is a legal one, based on the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty. After the trial, the term will likely change to "convicted killer". If the media doesn't use the term "alleged" they could be in legal trouble.

[RICHARD]

I love the fact that the media made light of the comments by the prez at some get-together last night....

He was talking about assault rifles and said something like "AK-47s should stay in the hands of soldiers".

LOLOLOLOL, "AKs" are what many third world soldiers, dirtbag drugrunners and despots carry. Nothing like getting your facts straight.

[RICHARD]

I have a loaded gun on my dresser. I have never killed anyone, nor has the gun got off the dresser by itself and killed anyone. But then no one has tried to come through my back door in the middle of the night, yet.

I have some scars from being attacked by my dresser back in the days when I'd come home drunk.

I trust the gun more than furniture with sharp edges.:eek:

[Alysser]

I didn't argue with the purpose of a gun. But my point is that, if you ban the gun there is SOMETHING else that will become a weapon and the purpose of it won't matter anymore. The purpose of knives is to cut food, but the purpose of them is also to kill, maim, and hunt. So we shouldn't be allowed to cut food anymore just because some people have used knives for murder? Knives are much easier to get than guns, yet they aren't ever brought up. A gun isn't scary when not in use, it doesn't do anything, just like any other inanimate objects. Maybe it's a tool for killing, but the killing is selective when used by rational people, most of which will probably NEVER use it anyway.

If someone came into your house, what would be the first thing you grab to defend yourself? Mine would probably be the baseball bat hanging on the wall (although it's autographed by some Yankees, doesn't stop me LOL). The purpose of the bat isn't to bludgeon someone to death but it can be used that way, and if a person didn't have a gun to kill someone they could easily find a replacement. It wouldn't stop the problem of violence in the least.

[RICHARD]

Olympic 'shooters' comment on Colorado.

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/shooting/story/US-shooter-Colorado-tragedy-gun-control-london-olympics-072612

[lizbud]

I love the fact that the media made light of the comments by the prez at some get-together last night....

He was talking about assault rifles and said something like "AK-47s should stay in the hands of soldiers".

LOLOLOLOL, "AKs" are what many third world soldiers, dirtbag drugrunners and despots carry. Nothing like getting your facts straight.



The subject under discussion is gun control. Why not stay on topic & resist your little lame digs on the POTUS.

[RICHARD]

The subject under discussion is gun control. Why not stay on topic & resist your little lame digs on the POTUS.

Yes, the subject is gun control.

So when some one comments on gun control and makes a gaffe like that?

I wonder about the person making the comment and the people who let it slide.

It's not a lame little dig - It's a huge dig and I reserve the right to call him out on it.

If the POTUS doesn't even know what kind of weapons the US service people use, doesn't that make you wonder just how involved he is with the people serving under him?

----------------------------

Isn't that the same dude running about with the codes for some hydrogen bombs?

Or is it that death ray thing that Ronald Raygun promised us?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I don't think target shooting kills, threatens or maims anything! Last I knew, paper or wooden targets did not have fears or emotions.



Agree. Target shooting does not maim, threaten or kill...unless the target you are shooting is a person.

The purpose of a gun is not targeting shooting. That is how you practice. The purpose of a gun is to kill or maim - or threaten to kill or maim.

If the purpose is to prove how well you can hit a target...darts? Bean bags?

[RICHARD]

Wha-wha-what?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Wha-wha-what?

I'm sorry sweetie! Did I stump you? Which word did you not understand?

[Lady's Human]

He was talking about assault rifles and said something like "AK-47s should stay in the hands of soldiers".

LOLOLOLOL, "AKs" are what many third world soldiers, dirtbag drugrunners and despots carry. Nothing like getting your facts straight.

As well as US Soldiers in Iraq, and many of our allies in the post Warsaw pact NATO alliance. Clint's line from Heartbreak Ridge no longer holds true.

[RICHARD]

"This is my safety."

--------------

To have a 'discussion' about gun safety you have to kinda stop and look at the tidbits of the topic and proceed from there.

People who are afraid of guns have a good reason. It's the same with driving - I see that LiLo is back on the road - stupid people in cars is probably my biggest fear and having one drive thru the wall doesn't help either.

I had the infortunate experience of standing next to someone after a target shooting accident and worked for the OR when GSWs were brought in.

People who work in the ER hate guns.

Years ago I ran into a nurse who was coming down the stairway, very flustered.

I knew her pretty well and saw she was put out.

I stopped her and asked if she was o.k. and she told me, in very colorful language that a GSW had come in and she was upset that the guy "didn't do it right", meaning that he didn't shoot himself in a way that would have killed him.

That puzzled me for a long time until I got to see the nasty business of what a bullet does.

-----------------------------------

Some guns are art.

Some are really ugly and when they are used stupidly or for evil?

When someone goes on a rampage with a gun, it's always that knee jerk reaction that starts people a'talkin and wen everyone talks at once nothing gets done.

The people who scream the loudest and don't bother to look at all the facts of the story are the ones that really don't care about making progress.

--------------------------------------

Gun control has quite a bit to do with politics.

If is wasn't for guns to protect the people, uphold the law and to keep the crazies from doing what they want?

Ask some politicians to walk amongst 'the people' without an armed security detail and see how far that arguement gets you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I lost a bet. I had "Grocery Store" for the next mass shooting. "House of Worship" had already been done (a couple times maybe?)

[blue]

Nice. Betting on mass shootings, good karma there.

[RICHARD]

Nice. Betting on mass shootings, good karma there.

That's a liberal mentality there....make money on a tragedy.

People are so quick to make a dollar on a death, it makes me sick.

Just read that the parents of the Martin kid are looking for .75 mil from the HOA of the complex where he was shot.

For psych evals.........must be going to see Dr Phil.

[catlady1945]

Wow, gotta say I am shocked at the pro-gun comments! And from Pet lovers!

[Lady's Human]

Wow, gotta say I am shocked at the pro-gun comments! And from Pet lovers!

What does one's ownership of pets have to do with whether you're for individual rights or not?

[chocolatepuppy]

Wow, gotta say I am shocked at the pro-gun comments! And from Pet lovers!

'IF' someone comes through my back door at night, the dogs most likely will not stop them, if their barking didn't scare them off in the first place. So then I could stand there and scream as they shoot or beat my dogs to death right in front of me. Then, they'll do whatever they want with me. The cats, most likely would hide and be spared.

Please spare me any comments that I'm a drama queen. I don't sit up nights worrying about this(because I have a loaded gun on my dresser) but it does happen! I'm 99% sure a criminal would pass my house when L&J start carrying on. But that 1%, can we say crackhead, will still try to get in. And yes, we do have many crackheads on the loose in my quiet little town.

[Alysser]

What does one's ownership of pets have to do with whether you're for individual rights or not?
My thoughts exactly.

[catlady1945]

Food for thought:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sanjay-sanghoee/gun-control-its-time-to-c_b_1759542.html

[Edwina's Secretary]

What does one's ownership of pets have to do with whether you're for individual rights or not?

I know the answer to this quiz! Ownership of pets has the same thing to do with gun ownership that gun ownership has to do with individual rights... nothing.

Because I cannot own an atomic bomb my individual rights are not compromised in any way...

[Lady's Human]

I know the answer to this quiz! Ownership of pets has the same thing to do with gun ownership that gun ownership has to do with individual rights... nothing.

Because I cannot own an atomic bomb my individual rights are not compromised in any way...

Nice strawman.

The right to keep and bear arms (legally restricted to small arms) is guaranteed by the Constitution. This has been affirmed by the SCOTUS. It doesn't matter how many restrictions you put on legal ownership of firearms, criminals will still get their hands on them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Then perhaps it is time to change the constitution.

It was written in a time when "arms" meant something very different than it does today -- by men who thought owning slaves was unpleasant but legal and that only rich white men should be allowed to vote (sounds like the Republican Party today!) Folks who channel the founding fathers - a game I think best left to oujia boards and parlor games - are always saying what they would have wanted. There is simply no way they could have imagined the world as it is today. The best line I have read about this is that what the founding fathers would have wanted was running water.

So many of the guns criminals get their hands on are stolen from homes..."protected by Smith and Wesson." That gun on your dresser? Burglars like cash, jewelry and guns. So while you're out walking the door what is to stop those crackheads from breaking in and taking that very convenient gun?

As for the Supreme Court affirming the right to own guns...what about ...


Congress passed the first set of federal laws regulating, licensing and taxing guns in 1934. The act was challenged and went to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1939. Franklin Delano Roosevelt's solicitor general, Robert H. Jackson, said the Second Amendment grants people a right that "is not one which may be utilized for private purposes but only one which exists where the arms are borne in the militia or some other military organization provided for by law and intended for the protection of the state." The court agreed unanimously.

Here's the thing. Things change. I would hope, as a country, we would be intelligent enough to recognize when it is time to change.

[Alysser]

Why change something that doesn't need to be changed?

Creating a scapegoat for a problem, doesn't and will NOT, stop the problem.

And for anyone wondering, I am as close to the middle as you can get in the realm of politics. If guns were banned, I am sure that Burglar would really start liking that set of butcher knives in the kitchen to. I am sure they'd also enjoy the use of the gun they have despite the fact that guns are banned.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Why change something that doesn't need to be changed?


Will you allow that some people..lots of people in fact DO believe it needs to be changed? Or must everyone believe as you do? I would consider myself middle of the road as well. I just don't like going to the movies and wondering who is packing heat.

I respect your position. Can you extend me the same?

[chocolatepuppy]

So many of the guns criminals get their hands on are stolen from homes..."protected by Smith and Wesson." That gun on your dresser? Burglars like cash, jewelry and guns. So while you're out walking the door what is to stop those crackheads from breaking in and taking that very convenient gun?


True, but there is no doubt in my mind, criminals will always have guns whether it is stolen off my dresser or not. They would love to see all of us law abiding citizens hand over our guns. That way, they wouldn't have to worry when robbing someone, on the street, or in a home, having a gun.
I am asking, those of you, who are against guns, what would you do if someone did break in your house while you were home? I seriously would like your thoughts on this. It puzzles me.

[Puckstop31]

Then perhaps it is time to change the constitution.

Indeed my arguement from the very begining. Make it so..... LEGALLY.


It was written in a time when "arms" meant something very different than it does today -- by men who thought owning slaves was unpleasant but legal and that only rich white men should be allowed to vote (sounds like the Republican Party today!)

HA! Are we getting THIS pathetic dear? LOL


Folks who channel the founding fathers - a game I think best left to oujia boards and parlor games - are always saying what they would have wanted. There is simply no way they could have imagined the world as it is today. The best line I have read about this is that what the founding fathers would have wanted was running water.

So, the study of history is for naught? You heard it here first folks. What actually happend matters not... Me thinks, my dear, that you should do a study on the writing of those men. Perhaps a study upon what the word 'militia' meant to the people who wrote it? You know, that silly context thing. (I know, 'history' and understanding it is SO last century....)





Here's the thing. Things change. I would hope, as a country, we would be intelligent enough to recognize when it is time to change.

+1 For a long time, the social acceptance of a person defending themselves has been vilified. Look at where it has gotten us. When will we begin to stand up against evil and fight back against it as free people have a right to do? History tells us what is required to be truly FREE. The simple choice is ours to make. Cower to evil or fight it? Speaking as a father and a husband... I DO NOT want to have to do ANY harm to any one... But I am grateful for the right to protect my life (and my wife/childs life) with force if necessary.

[caseysmom]

Indeed my arguement from the very begining. Make it so..... LEGALLY.



HA! Are we getting THIS pathetic dear? LOL



So, the study of history is for naught? You heard it here first folks. What actually happend matters not... Me thinks, my dear, that you should do a study on the writing of those men. Perhaps a study upon what the word 'militia' meant to the people who wrote it? You know, that silly context thing. (I know, 'history' and understanding it is SO last century....)






+1 For a long time, the social acceptance of a person defending themselves has been vilified. Look at where it has gotten us. When will we begin to stand up against evil and fight back against it as free people have a right to do? History tells us what is required to be truly FREE. The simple choice is ours to make. Cower to evil or fight it? Speaking as a father and a husband... I DO NOT want to have to do ANY harm to any one... But I am grateful for the right to protect my life (and my wife/childs life) with force if necessary.

Didn't hear anything that was said lost me with the two demeaning "dears"

[Puckstop31]

Didn't hear anything that was said lost me with the two demeaning "dears"


Taken. And telling. Who cares what the truth is... As long as you say it 'nice'? I reckon that is our current President got elected?

I will never claim to be a good writer. I realize I am fighting against the wind on this site.... All I will say is history DOES matter. Context matters. Trivialize it because of how you choose to hear words at thy own peril.

Its rather clear that very few are open to changing thier minds here and that my point of view is the extreme minority. What does that tell you?

[caseysmom]

Taken. And telling. Who cares what the truth is... As long as you say it 'nice'? I reckon that is our current President got elected?

I will never claim to be a good writer. I realize I am fighting against the wind on this site.... All I will say is history DOES matter. Context matters. Trivialize it because of how you choose to hear words at thy own peril.

Its rather clear that very few are open to changing thier minds here and that my point of view is the extreme minority. What does that tell you?

I know your above that, that is why I pointed it out. I know your not a mcp but someone else might think so reading that. I don't have strong opinion on the gun issue, see both sides.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am asking, those of you, who are against guns, what would you do if someone did break in your house while you were home? I seriously would like your thoughts on this. It puzzles me.

Leave. Far safer than trying to "out gun" someone. But then again...who said something about that???

[Alysser]

Will you allow that some people..lots of people in fact DO believe it needs to be changed? Or must everyone believe as you do? I would consider myself middle of the road as well. I just don't like going to the movies and wondering who is packing heat.

I respect your position. Can you extend me the same?

I will even go as far to say, I believe some thing needs to change. Whether it be the constitution, gun laws, or how we handle psychopaths - something DOES need to change. I didn't mean to make it sound like everyone should have my opinion, but yes, of course I can respect yours.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I will even go as far to say, I believe some thing needs to change. Whether it be the constitution, gun laws, or how we handle psychopaths - something DOES need to change. I didn't mean to make it sound like everyone should have my opinion, but yes, of course I can respect yours.

Thank you Alysser...I appreciate that!

[chocolatepuppy]

Leave. Far safer than trying to "out gun" someone. But then again...who said something about that???

If someone's coming through my kitchen or front door, I will not be able to get out! Sorry I'm in the wrong thread with this. I thought the thread was titled GUN CONTROL DISCUSSION. I thought there were people trying to make me give up my gun. Sorry, next time I'll read the title right!:o

[catlady1945]

Loaded gun in the bedroom = scary!

[pomtzu]

Loaded gun in the bedroom = scary!

I think I missed the point of this post. If you're implying that a spouse could use it against the other, then you don't have all the facts.

I've made it quite clear that I do not like guns, nor do I own one. However, if I lived alone with no other humans here, then I probably would reconsider having one at my disposal, for my own protection. I highly doubt that 2 little 11 and 12 pound dogs would deter anyone from breaking in and doing who knows what. :eek:

[Jessika]

Gun control will NOT keep guns out of criminals' hands. Criminals will break any laws you put forth to try to "prevent" them from committing crimes. All gun control does is punish law-abiding citizens.

I am firmly against gun control.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If someone's coming through my kitchen or front door, I will not be able to get out! Sorry I'm in the wrong thread with this. I thought the thread was titled GUN CONTROL DISCUSSION. I thought there were people trying to make me give up my gun. Sorry, next time I'll read the title right!:o

Not entirely sure what you mean. There is a difference between sensible gun laws and making people give up their guns. "Control" is the key word. Making it harder to buy guns...this guy in Wisconsin...a known hater/neo-nazi, etc. was able to legally buy guns. Looking at the kinds of guns people can own. And concealed carry - that is so scary. When Gabby Gifford was shot there was a guy in a pharmacy nearby who heard the commotion and had a legal gun in his pocket. He has said...his finger was on the trigger and he almost shot the guy giving Gifford first aid.

A gun in the bedroom is indeed very dangerous. Most people sleep in their bedroom. To come out of sleep and have enough wits to outshot a bad guy? You could ask the cop in Pennsylvannia who recently shot and killed his son.

The guy who the police shot yesterday in NYC. He had a knife. He was the only fatality of the incident. What if it had been a gun? In Time Square?

You want to keep a gun in your home...as long as you can assure me it will not be stolen and used to shot others - fine. I just don't want to be in school/the movies/the grocery store/the shopping mall with some who is carrying a weapon! My personal liberty - you know?

[Randi]

Isn't it amazing how we in other parts of the cilvilized world survive just fine without owing a gun?

[phesina]

Yeah, isn't that something, Randi.

People who are opposed to gun control say the criminals and bad people will always be able to get guns but the good people won't have any means of defense then.

By that logic, in countries like Denmark and Canada and England where the people can't all arm themselves for self-protection, the criminals in those countries will still have guns. So... why aren't the gun violence and death rates in those countries much worse than in the U.S.?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Amen! The gun-homicide rate per capita in the US is 30 times that of Britain and Australia. And by far - those people getting killed are NOT the bad guys breaking into your home.

[Jessika]

In countries where they have gun bans, etc, crimes for other weapons, ie knives, are actually higher.

http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323


In or about 2006, there were about 60 million (actually closer to 58M, but we'll use the rounded-up number to be kind to hopolophobes) people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.

In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.

By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.

In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.

In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).

In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).

That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.

Interesting read.

[Edwina's Secretary]

In countries where they have gun bans, etc, crimes for other weapons, ie knives, are actually higher.

http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323



Interesting read.

Interesting - except it leaves out something. How many of the victims of knife crimes died?

[phesina]

How many people have gone on mad knifing rampages in movie theaters, at worship services?

[Karen]

Interesting - except it leaves out something. How many of the victims of knife crimes died?

It's not like everyone who is a gun violence victim dies, either. Witness the U.S. Olympian Bryshon Nelson, shot twice in the legs who survived and ran in the Olympics.

It's hard to get statistics that show a whole picture, as everyone stating them seems to have one agenda or another.

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's not like everyone who is a gun violence victim dies, either. Witness the U.S. Olympian Bryshon Nelson, shot twice in the legs who survived and ran in the Olympics.

It's hard to get statistics that show a whole picture, as everyone stating them seems to have one agenda or another.

I agree with you Karen...comparing knife crimes to gun homicides isn't valid. But I can tell you, to phesina's point, I will take my odds in a movie theater with a crazed knife wielder over my odds in a movie theater with a crazed gun wielder! Or shopping mall...or house of worship, or grade school, or college lecture hall, etc. etc.

[chocolatepuppy]

Not entirely sure what you mean. There is a difference between sensible gun laws and making people give up their guns. "Control" is the key word. Making it harder to buy guns...this guy in Wisconsin...a known hater/neo-nazi, etc. was able to legally buy guns. Looking at the kinds of guns people can own. And concealed carry - that is so scary. When Gabby Gifford was shot there was a guy in a pharmacy nearby who heard the commotion and had a legal gun in his pocket. He has said...his finger was on the trigger and he almost shot the guy giving Gifford first aid.

A gun in the bedroom is indeed very dangerous. Most people sleep in their bedroom. To come out of sleep and have enough wits to outshot a bad guy? You could ask the cop in Pennsylvannia who recently shot and killed his son.

The guy who the police shot yesterday in NYC. He had a knife. He was the only fatality of the incident. What if it had been a gun? In Time Square?

You want to keep a gun in your home...as long as you can assure me it will not be stolen and used to shot others - fine. I just don't want to be in school/the movies/the grocery store/the shopping mall with some who is carrying a weapon! My personal liberty - you know?

I've seen many incidents where someone owning a gun saved lives, same as you're posting where it lead to more problems. I fail to see why a gun in my bedroom is very dangerous? It just sits there. But then, I'm not afraid of guns. Sorry I can't assure you it won't be stolen. But I would bet, if someone wants a gun to harm you, laws or not, they will get it.
Do know, I'm not against sensible gun laws, such as, them being registered and background checks on potential owners. Just remember, the criminals will still have any type of gun they want, regardless of the laws.

[chocolatepuppy]

Gun control will NOT keep guns out of criminals' hands. Criminals will break any laws you put forth to try to "prevent" them from committing crimes. All gun control does is punish law-abiding citizens.

I am firmly against gun control.

Well said!

[phesina]

In countries where they have gun bans, etc, crimes for other weapons, ie knives, are actually higher.

http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323



Interesting read.

Are the rates of people being knifed in those countries as high as those of people being shot in this country?

[Edwina's Secretary]

All gun control does is punish law-abiding citizens

I am a law-abiding citizen. I do not feel at all punished by sensible gun laws. Indeed...I feel punished by the lack of sensible gun laws.

And I am not afraid of criminals breaking into my house. I am just not. I am afraid of people running around with concealed weapons. Very afraid.

So there you have it...I am firmly committed to gun control.

Isn't it a wonderful country where people can agree to disagree...well...most of them anyway!

[Alysser]

Now if we are talking about sensible gun laws...like registration and background checks - of course I am all for that! That's like allowing people to drive without a road test or license and no car registration.

[catlady1945]

[QUOTE=Karen;2432319]It's not like everyone who is a gun violence victim dies, either. Witness the U.S. Olympian Bryshon Nelson, shot twice in the legs who survived and ran in the Olympics.[/QUOTE}

I'm sorry - what??

[Edwina's Secretary]

Here is my question.

I grew up "out in the country." Could not see the neighbors. Just the buffalo on the next farm. Went away to college. Lived alone from the time I graduated college until I met my husband. Over 20 years. During that time I lived alone. Including two years in Guadalajara Mexico and over 12 years in the city of Chicago. I traveled all over - 44 of the United States, Europe, Mexico and South America...even Egypt. Sometimes alone...other times with female friends.

Never...not once...did I ever think..."if only I had a gun!!!"

I had my purse stolen once. My own stupidity and not something I would be willing to shoot someone over. And... my insurance covered it.

So...why the fear?

Now...why don't we all go and say something nice about today's dog/cat/pet?

[Lady's Human]

So...why the fear?



And for those of us on the other side of the debate, the question is exatly that: Why the fear?

A firearm is an inanimate object. I fear a firearm no more than I fear a tablesaw.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And for those of us on the other side of the debate, the question is exatly that: Why the fear?

A firearm is an inanimate object. I fear a firearm no more than I fear a tablesaw.

So how many people do you know...or have you EVER heard of who were killed by a tablesaw???

Sita Singh, 41, Ranjit Singh, 49, the temple's President Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65, Prakash Singh, 39, Suveg Singh, 84 and Paramjit Kaur, 41

[Lady's Human]

Many maimed, some killed. I read OSHA logs routinely.

[Jessika]

Are the rates of people being knifed in those countries as high as those of people being shot in this country?
They are not, but as I clearly stated in my post, crimes committed with other types of weapons in countries where they have gun bans are much higher than (sometimes higher even than gun crimes committed in countries without a ban).


Now if we are talking about sensible gun laws...like registration and background checks - of course I am all for that! That's like allowing people to drive without a road test or license and no car registration.
This is a no-brainer here. I'm not against this (though I do know some people who are against registration, but I am not one of them). I'm all for being a responsible gun owner. But still - stricter gun control will not keep guns out of criminals' hands.

[Alysser]

So...why the fear?



I truthfully do not have the fear that something will happen. That would be living my life in fear, and I don't. But like LH said, I agree that a gun is an inanimate object and it just doesn't strike fear in me. Guns are a part of life, and are they used immorally and irresponsibly? Absolutely and I think that is some we can all agree on. But clearly, someone who is going on a shooting rampage has issues already whether it be extreme anger or they just have their screws loose - but the gun didn't tell them to go on said rampage. The problem is these laws only strive to control a small factor - the weapon being used.

[Randi]

I would like to know how many of the ones who went on a shooting rampage over the years, had got their weapon legally and how many did not? Also, what does it take to be allowed to carry a gun? Any kind of psychological tests? What kind of papers do you fill out - and is that all you have to do?

[pomtzu]

I would like to know how many of the ones who went on a shooting rampage over the years, had got their weapon legally and how many did not? Also, what does it take to be allowed to carry a gun? Any kind of psychological tests? What kind of papers do you fill out - and is that all you have to do?


The nut case who opened fire in the movie theater and killed or wounded (60+? people), obtained all of his weapons, ammo, "riot gear" legally! :mad: His only run in with the law was a speeding ticket on his driver's license.

I've never applied for a gun permit, but you have forms to fill out for a background check, and a waiting period of a few days. No psych check. Just checking on criminally related matters. Anyone please feel free to correct me on this. Obviously if it turns up that you're a convicted felon, you will not get the permit. But of course that won't stop anyone from getting a gun if they really want one.

I'm certain other posters in this thread have more info on obtaining a permit than I do, but basically it's pretty darn easy for just about anyone to get one.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Many maimed, some killed. I read OSHA logs routinely.

So tell me about murder by table saw...I too read lots of OSHA logs and have't seen one yet!

But you know the big difference....a table saw - when used correctly, does not kill. A gun - when used correctly does.

[Lady's Human]

A gun when used correctly doesn't kill.

A gun can be used to deter violence, put food on the table, punch holes in paper, there are many uses for them.

It very simply comes down to differing views of individual freedoms and rights. People who are for gun control and banning them will just never understand those of us who oppose those measures, and vice versa.

People will use many, many things to kill, a firearm just makes more headlines when it happens. More people are killed during their morning commute by accidents, yet no one wants to ban automobiles.

As to the licensing issue, license requirements vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and mental illness CANNOT be considered for legal reasons.

[RICHARD]

And for those of us on the other side of the debate, the question is exatly that: Why the fear?

A firearm is an inanimate object. I fear a firearm no more than I fear a tablesaw.

54456

This table saw is portable, so it would be able to chase you down.:eek:

----------------------------------


Go hang out in a trauma ER for a weekend and see all the crap people use to promote mayhem onto each other.

A gun is a rather impersonal way to show your displeasure at another human being.

----------------------------

Check out what a broken bottle will do to skin.

Check out the xray of a fractured skull. A baseball bat, tire iron or in a pinch? A brick will do nicely.

A stick or 2x4 makes a nice club.

Iron skillets can be wielded with no problem, or the hot fat/oil won't break a bone - but how's about a visit to the burn ward or a few dozen skin grafts.

Look about the room you are in and use a little imagination. You can pretty much beat the crap out of anyone with what's at hand.

Me?

I prefer not to let anyone get really close to me.

I don't like to be touched.

[Lady's Human]

I don't like to be touched.

Don't lie, we all know you're touched! :D

[RICHARD]

Don't lie, we all know you're touched! :D

That's a different kinda 'contact' - stay on topic?:D:p

-----------------------

I do have a healthy respect, that borders on fear, of any electrical tool.

It makes me pay attention to detail.:eek:

[RICHARD]

I just saw a clip of a TV show where one of the characters is sitting in a bar, reading the comics.

She states that she is just looking at Charlie Brown falling down after Lucy pulls the football away when he tries to kick it.

"If Charlie Brown was packing, no one would mess with him."

Probably not.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A gun when used correctly doesn't kill.

A gun can be used to deter violence, put food on the table, punch holes in paper, there are many uses for them.

It very simply comes down to differing views of individual freedoms and rights. People who are for gun control and banning them will just never understand those of us who oppose those measures, and vice versa.

People will use many, many things to kill, a firearm just makes more headlines when it happens. More people are killed during their morning commute by accidents, yet no one wants to ban automobiles.

As to the licensing issue, license requirements vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and mental illness CANNOT be considered for legal reasons.

A gun deters violence - if it does so, by the threat to kill.

I don't go to the movies that often but I have yet to see the need to use a gun to get a box of popcorn.

Guns exist to kill. No other reason. You can try and whitewash it with target practice, detering violence, making holes in paper - doesn't change the fact a gun is designed to kill. That is all just - to use a term - strawman stuff.

Table saw, automobiles, knives...all have a purpose other than to kill. Or threaten death.

You want a gun in your house - that is your problem...you want to hunt wild animals...okay.

But when you bring your gun into my space - the movie theater, grade school, bar, shopping mall, Texas A&M....I have a problem.

You know what really scares me???....George Zimmerman and the people who defend him. Wannabe who has a gun and decides he knows better than the police - stalks someone for having the termity to wear a hoodie in the rain and shots him. And claims "stand your ground." So now I have to worry that if I am wearing clothing that someone finds offensive that person they can shot me....for walking while wearing offensive clothing!

[Lady's Human]

You want a gun in your house - that is your problem...you want to hunt wild animals...okay.

But when you bring your gun into my space - the movie theater, grade school, bar, shopping mall, Texas A&M....I have a problem.


When you bring a 4500 lb vehicle into my space with intent to kill through negligence (applying eyeshadow, lipstick, reading the newspaper, talking on the cell phone while leaning over to change the radio station, combing hair) I have an issue with it as well. However, vehicles are an item of convenience for everyone, so that discussion would lead to political suicide for those who brought up the issue.

Frankly, those shouldn't be traffic charges, they should be attempted negligent homicide, but the proposal would never fly.

Again, I could kill far more people with a little planning and never touch a firearm...........and never doing anything illegal until the point of committing the crime, but you'd rather sensationalize crime and have bloody headlines to carp about than deal with reality.

[catlady1945]

I see y'all had another shooting today, in the U.S. of A.

[RICHARD]

When you bring a 4500 lb vehicle into my space with intent to kill through negligence (applying eyeshadow, lipstick, reading the newspaper, talking on the cell phone while leaning over to change the radio station, combing hair) I have an issue with it as well.


You mean like THIS?:eek:
54462

[RICHARD]

I see y'all had another shooting today, in the U.S. of A.

Yes, we don't get the CBC down here, so we don't know what's going on all over the continent.:(;)

[Karen]

You mean like THIS?:eek:
54462

No, he means while driving! It happens on a frighteningly regular basis on certain roadways around here!

I will never forget the restraint my older brother showed one time when he drove into Boston to pick me up so I could go home for the weekend. We on Route 9, in traffic and on a hill, and the woman in front of us decided that because the light was red, that would be a good time to apply her makeup, with both hands. She just forgot to keep her foot on the brake, so her car started rolling back toward is. It was probably millimeters from his bumper when she finally came to and reapplied the brake, and that was after he backed up as much as he could without hitting the car behind us!

[pomtzu]

Yes Karen - Boston is, without a doubt, the very worst city I ever drove in. Seriously - they drove like maniacs and like they were the only ones on the road - and that was back in the 60's. The right of way always belonged to them! :eek: I can only imagine what it's like now!

[catlady1945]

Yes, we don't get the CBC down here, so we don't know what's going on all over the continent.:(;)

Here you go! Check it out on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Karen]

Here you go! Check it out on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I am sure he has heard about the Texas A&M shootings. He said "We don't get the CBC" meaning we don't often get news out of Canada. I know shootings happen there as well, but don't get the media play down here that American shootings do up there.

[RICHARD]

No, he means while driving! It happens on a frighteningly regular basis on certain roadways around here!

I will never forget the restraint my older brother showed one time when he drove into Boston to pick me up so I could go home for the weekend. We on Route 9, in traffic and on a hill, and the woman in front of us decided that because the light was red, that would be a good time to apply her makeup, with both hands. She just forgot to keep her foot on the brake, so her car started rolling back toward is. It was probably millimeters from his bumper when she finally came to and reapplied the brake, and that was after he backed up as much as he could without hitting the car behind us!


It was a little joke about the comment "bringing a vehicle into his space"

The guy that drove thru the house should have been on meds - he had a seizure and probably should not have been driving at all.:eek:

------------


Two kids were wounded here in LV over the weekend. It was a drive by and the two knuckleheads were caught and tossed into the clink. I guess that ain't news.

[catlady1945]

I think it snows there.

[Karen]

I think it snows there.

Where?

[Catty1]

Canada. Or, as some Brits say, "Canader". It does snow here - usually in the winter. ;)

Some recent shootings (and non-shootings) in Canada:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/19/toronto-shooting-nahom-tsegazab_n_1687933.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/06/02/toronto-eaton-center-shooting.html

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/26/jun-lins-mother-opens-door-to-forgiving-magnotta

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/University+Alberta+shooting+leaves+three+dead+afte r+attempted+armoured+robbery+with+video+photos/6787968/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/08/11/calgary-bylaw-officer-charges.html


I may have missed one or two. It's been quite a summer...

[RICHARD]

I woke up from a dream with a cramp in my calf - I was going hunting and someone in the group fell on the back of my leg. Funny because I haven't been hunting in a while and don't own a livestock.

-----------------

I hate waking up and feeling I have to write because sometimes it's visceral and I am pretty crabby.

I just want to say that we are a stupid, arrogant bunch of people when it comes to 'gun control'.

Oh, my! people are carrying concealed weapons on the street!

So what.

--------------------------

I thought of our poor Isabel, Husky Mom, and wondered what SHE THINKS ABOUT GC.

Of course, Mexico is a place that is slowly becoming the Wild West when it comes to guns, stupid people and OUR IDEAS about GC.

We can whine and moan about it because we don't live in constant fear of some one breaking down the door to our home and killing us because of their stupidity.

And if we constantly live with that fear? Hide your head black plastic bag and make sure it's closed up tight so you don't see, heard, smell or taste the problems we have with guns.

Or better yet, go live in Mexico or some African country where guns are the law.

-------------------------

Take a look farther up the food chain and see what OUR Country, the prez and that AH Eric Holder think about Operation Fast and Furious.

That shows we really can 'contol our guns'.

I apologize for making light of the subject, but we are a brash, ignorant and stupid group.

Think about just being able to discuss GC here and on this forum.

In most of the world that discussion start at the tip of the bullet and ends at the wound it leaves.

I am sure we would be singing a different story anywhere else on the planet - it's amazing how hollow the arguement sounds when you read it out loud here on this board.

--------------------------------------

My comment about Canader was a little poke at just how little we know about what goes on outside our borders.

Sometimes a short look outside of our own 'selves' puts things into perspective and can really temper the conversation.

It's our arrogance that keeps us from seeing that 'our way' may not be as bad as we think it is, compared to the rest of the world.

Suck it up folks, things could be worse?

[Edwina's Secretary]

When you bring a 4500 lb vehicle into my space with intent to kill through negligence (applying eyeshadow, lipstick, reading the newspaper, talking on the cell phone while leaning over to change the radio station, combing hair) I have an issue with it as well. However, vehicles are an item of convenience for everyone, so that discussion would lead to political suicide for those who brought up the issue.

Frankly, those shouldn't be traffic charges, they should be attempted negligent homicide, but the proposal would never fly.

Again, I could kill far more people with a little planning and never touch a firearm...........and never doing anything illegal until the point of committing the crime, but you'd rather sensationalize crime and have bloody headlines to carp about than deal with reality.

You "miss" a big difference between my car and a gun. I cannot hide my car in a purse or pocket. I cannot fold it up and put it in an innocent looking gym bag while I stroll through the shopping mall looking for the "best" place to cause maximum damage.

I do not want to sensationalize crime...what an odd thing to say. It is. It sensationalizes itself. Dead is dead. And that is the reality we all have to deal with. Do you think gun deaths should be censored so we don't have to hear about them?

Maybe you are a demolition wizard - but that doesn't make that pesky reality any less real. You don't need training - you don't need smarts - you just need lots of hate and then you just buy (or steal) a gun...or two or three.

[Lady's Human]

You don't need training or intelligence to drive a semi through a shopping mall, nor do you need to be a demolitions expert.

Do you think all deaths should be given the same sensationalized coverage as shootings? Every stabbing, DUI, accident, suicide, ad nauseum leading the news constantly for days? After all, dead is dead, the process doesn't matter, just the untimely demise. Someone jumping on PT every second of every day beating their chest and denouncing how XYZ was killed? I think the mayor would need more server space.....

[RICHARD]

When you bring a 4500 lb vehicle into my space with intent to kill through negligence

http://www.wlky.com/news/local-news/louisville-news/Police-car-crashes-into-house-on-Outer-Loop/-/9718340/16121064/-/ow6umkz/-/index.html?absolute=true


So what do you do when the guy has a car and a gun?

[lizbud]

Guide To Mass Shootings In U S.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

[lizbud]

How would you like to have been sitting next to this guy?:rolleyes:

http://www.theindychannel.com/entertainment/31358631/detail.html

[Catty1]

Dang. liz, you beat me to it! :D

[RICHARD]

shooting a movie?

[pomtzu]

Yes Karen - Boston is, without a doubt, the very worst city I ever drove in. Seriously - they drove like maniacs and like they were the only ones on the road - and that was back in the 60's. The right of way always belonged to them! :eek: I can only imagine what it's like now!

Hey Karen - I knew I wasn't too far off the mark with this one. The Weather Channel posted the 10 worst cities to drive in, in the U.S., and Boston ranked #9. Believe it or not, #1 was Honolulu! :eek:

[Karen]

Hey Karen - I knew I wasn't too far off the mark with this one. The Weather Channel posted the 10 worst cities to drive in, in the U.S., and Boston ranked #9. Believe it or not, #1 was Honolulu! :eek:

Maybe in Honolulu, they get distracted by pleasant scenery in the distance? They certainly don't have the weather excuses Boston drivers can have half the year!

I love that the photo they chose for Boston list is here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/cities-with-the-worst-traffic-2012-photos_n_1543437.html#slide=1208540) is one taken from the water - the least congested spot in the city!

[catlady1945]

The stupidity speaks for itself --- right?


"SPARKS, Nev. -- Police say a man accidentally shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theater during a showing of "The Bourne Legacy."

Police in Sparks, Nev., say the 56-year-old man's injuries are not life-threatening and no others were hurt.

Authorities say the man had a permit to carry a concealed firearm. The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor.

Authorities say the case will be sent to the city attorney for possible charges.

The incident comes less than a month after a shooting at a suburban Denver theater that left 12 dead and 58 injured."
(from Huffington Post)

[Lady's Human]

That's a repost of what Liz posted above.


The odd thing is that shortly after the Colorado incident, a pickup truck went off the road in Texas, killing 10 of the 23 in the truck. Shouldn't we be gnashing our teeth, wailling, and calling for a ban on pickup trucks? Or does it not matter, as they were illegals?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/10-dead-after-truck-carrying-at-least-22-crashes-in-texas-authorities-say/

BTW, That's far from an isolated incident, at whatever angle you look at it. Coyotes routinely kill their "cargo", either intentionally or accidentally, and motor vehicle accidents kill many more people than firearms related crimes every year.

[catlady1945]

That's a repost of what Liz posted above.


The odd thing is that shortly after the Colorado incident, a pickup truck went off the road in Texas, killing 10 of the 23 in the truck. Shouldn't we be gnashing our teeth, wailling, and calling for a ban on pickup trucks? Or does it not matter, as they were illegals?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/10-dead-after-truck-carrying-at-least-22-crashes-in-texas-authorities-say/

BTW, That's far from an isolated incident, at whatever angle you look at it. Coyotes routinely kill their "cargo", either intentionally or accidentally, and motor vehicle accidents kill many more people than firearms related crimes every year.

Specious argument - pretty sure everyone knows that a pickup truck is nowhere near the same as loaded guns in your pants or on the dresser in the bedroom.

[chocolatepuppy]

There's that 'gun on the dresser in the bedroom' again. Mine's still there. Hasn't caused any trouble yet. But oh no, I drive a truck!!!:eek: I guess I have more to worry about now. Maybe I should stop driving.
Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy. There is NOTHING in this world that can assure that you will get home alive. NOTHING! Gun control won't change that.

[Bonny]

Ben Steins answer today on guns was he had none. He mentioned homicidal people with guns. The Denver shootings. I guess try not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[Edwina's Secretary]

There's that 'gun on the dresser in the bedroom' again. Mine's still there. Hasn't caused any trouble yet. But oh no, I drive a truck!!!:eek: I guess I have more to worry about now. Maybe I should stop driving.
Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy. There is NOTHING in this world that can assure that you will get home alive. NOTHING! Gun control won't change that.

Once again...motor vehicles are designed to move goods or people. When used correctly they do not kill. Guns are designed to kill or maim. When used correctly that is what they do. It is fairly simple.

And CP...this has been a fairly civilized conversation so far. Suggesting people who disagree with you "should seek therapy" is not only rude, incendiary and illogical - but invites a response I am working hard not to give.

[Randi]

It seems to me that not only do mentally ill people get permission to own a gun, but also plain stupid morons. :rolleyes:

"The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor."

[Catty1]

Most vehicle deaths are caused by accidents.

There is such a thing as accidentally shooting a person, but aiming a gun at someone is a bit more deliberate than driving off the road.

It's an apples-oranges kind of comparison, IMO.

[Alysser]

The point is, a car can and will still kill someone. I read recently that road rage incidents are on the rise. A girl walking down the street yelled something at a speeding car - the psycho turned around and ran her right over. I really don't think the purpose of a thing matters, the point is, it can and will still be used against someone sadly.

[chocolatepuppy]

Now...why don't we all go and say something nice about today's dog/cat/pet?
I bit my tongue on this earlier in the thread. Your opinions are right? We should drop it?:confused:


And CP...this has been a fairly civilized conversation so far. Suggesting people who disagree with you "should seek therapy" is not only rude, incendiary and illogical - but invites a response I am working hard not to give.

I am not a rude person or all the other fancy words you use. I was serious about the therapy. I feel bad for anyone who lives their life in fear. I never suggested that people who disagree with me get therapy. I said [Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy.]

If you have something to say to me, don't be shy, go for it. I'm a big girl, I can handle it.

[pomtzu]

This whole thread is about opinions - and I'm sure we all know what is said about those! :eek: I see no right or wrong in anything that anyone has said, and this discussion could go on and on and on with no resolution. I respect everyone's opinion - afterall - that's what makes us all individual and unique. Opinions-opinions-opinions...........:)

[Lady's Human]

Specious argument - pretty sure everyone knows that a pickup truck is nowhere near the same as loaded guns in your pants or on the dresser in the bedroom.

Funny, I've had firearms my entire adult life, handled firearms since I was a teen, and none of the firearms I own have ever run out of the house and shot someone.

Vehicles, however, have autonomously killed people routinely, just read the headlines. "SUV goes out of control, Kills 3", etc.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I bit my tongue on this earlier in the thread. Your opinions are right? We should drop it?:confused:


I am not a rude person or all the other fancy words you use. I was serious about the therapy. I feel bad for anyone who lives their life in fear. I never suggested that people who disagree with me get therapy. I said [Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy.]

If you have something to say to me, don't be shy, go for it. I'm a big girl, I can handle it.

Not once did I suggest the discussion should be dropped. I have stated before that I think it would be nice if more people responded to the Dog/Cat/Pet of the day threads. You see something evil in that? Hmmmm...


Living in fear... In fact...didn't you say earlier that is WHY you have a gun on your dresser? Because you are afraid?

I do not want to get into personal attacks.

I would hope we can express our opinions with having to disparage those with whom we disagree.

[RICHARD]

There's that 'gun on the dresser in the bedroom' again. Mine's still there. Hasn't caused any trouble yet. But oh no, I drive a truck!!!:eek: I guess I have more to worry about now. Maybe I should stop driving.
Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy. There is NOTHING in this world that can assure that you will get home alive. NOTHING! Gun control won't change that.

I don't think it's the TRUCK....It's the gasoline that makes the truck go vroom.

Convict gas station owners.

[chocolatepuppy]

but invites a response I am working hard not to give.
With this, I felt you had something you wanted to say to me, sorry, my mistake.:o


Not once did I suggest the discussion should be dropped. I have stated before that I think it would be nice if more people responded to the Dog/Cat/Pet of the day threads. You see something evil in that? Hmmmm..

Living in fear... In fact...didn't you say earlier that is WHY you have a gun on your dresser? Because you are afraid?

I do not want to get into personal attacks.

I would hope we can express our opinions with having to disparage those with whom we disagree.

What a funny place, in the gun discussion to mention posting on the DOTD/COTD/POTD. Forgive me if I didn't understand that. I did use the >:confused:< . BTW, I try to reply to most of them daily.;)

I do not live in fear. I mentioned several times I doubt anyone would break in my house at night with my dogs here.

I don't want personal attacks either. You twisted my words of seeking help if you live in fear into me saying anyone who disagrees with me needs therapy. I didn't care for that.

[chocolatepuppy]

I don't think it's the TRUCK....It's the gasoline that makes the truck go vroom.

Convict gas station owners.

Thanks Richard, I'm just headed out in my TRUCK! Now I can worry about the gasoline too!:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

With this, I felt you had something you wanted to say to me, sorry, my mistake.:o



What a funny place, in the gun discussion to mention posting on the DOTD/COTD/POTD. Forgive me if I didn't understand that. I did use the >:confused:< . BTW, I try to reply to most of them daily.;)

I do not live in fear. I mentioned several times I doubt anyone would break in my house at night with my dogs here.

I don't want personal attacks either. You twisted my words of seeking help if you live in fear into me saying anyone who disagrees with me needs therapy. I didn't care for that.

Yes. I know you reply often on the "of the Day". I wish more people did. There are some people who only post in non-pet threads - especially the Dog House. I am sorry if you misunderstaood that.

I didn't care for the suggestion that people who do not like guns need therapy. I am more angry than fearful. Resentful in fact. Do not twist that into some mental imbalance needing therapy. But nonetheless - I do not know a person who does not have some fear. I would think someone without fear is more in need of therapy.

But once again...and I guess every time someone tries to make the connection between guns and vehicles...the purpose of a gun is to kill. The purpose of a vehicle is to move people or goods from place to place. If used correct a vehicle does not kill. If used correctly a guns does.

[Lady's Human]

But once again...and I guess every time someone tries to make the connection between guns and vehicles...the purpose of a gun is to kill. The purpose of a vehicle is to move people or goods from place to place. If used correct a vehicle does not kill. If used correctly a guns does.

And again, both are tools, completely harmless unless used by someone of ill intent. One just happens to be a convenience of modern life that 90% of the population of the US would be protesting if they were controlled properly (German licensing requirements for vehicles and their traffic code are an excellent starting point).

The people need help and in some cases control, the objects are harmless. Under current law it is actually illegal to check someone's mental health background as part of a NICS check due to various and sundry restrictions.

[Karen]

And again, both are tools, completely harmless unless used by someone of ill intent. One just happens to be a convenience of modern life that 90% of the population of the US would be protesting if they were controlled properly (German licensing requirements for vehicles and their traffic code are an excellent starting point).

The people need help and in some cases control, the objects are harmless. Under current law it is actually illegal to check someone's mental health background as part of a NICS check due to various and sundry restrictions.


NICS = National Instant Criminal Background Check System - dunno why there's no B in the acronym!

[chocolatepuppy]

Those of you who are worried about being shot out in public, perhaps you should seek therapy.
Please ES, show me where in this sentence I said people who don't like guns need therapy. And I said 'perhaps'.




I didn't care for the suggestion that people who do not like guns need therapy. I am more angry than fearful. Resentful in fact. Do not twist that into some mental imbalance needing therapy. But nonetheless - I do not know a person who does not have some fear. I would think someone without fear is more in need of therapy.

But once again...and I guess every time someone tries to make the connection between guns and vehicles...the purpose of a gun is to kill. The purpose of a vehicle is to move people or goods from place to place. If used correct a vehicle does not kill. If used correctly a guns does.

Now I called you imbalanced? :confused: I'm sorry you are afraid of guns and I am not. I'm not the first or only person in this thread that brought up TRUCKS! I just happen to drive a TRUCK and I replied.

And yes, most of us have some fears, even me. And what's with the *do not* at me? Far as I know Karen is still the mayor here and you aren't my mother. Now I'm gonna go check out the POTD and the COTD, haven't replied to them yet.:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Please ES, show me where in this sentence I said people who don't like guns need therapy. And I said 'perhaps'.



Now I called you imbalanced? :confused: I'm sorry you are afraid of guns and I am not. I'm not the first or only person in this thread that brought up TRUCKS! I just happen to drive a TRUCK and I replied.

And yes, most of us have some fears, even me. And what's with the *do not* at me? Far as I know Karen is still the mayor here and you aren't my mother. Now I'm gonna go check out the POTD and the COTD, haven't replied to them yet.:D

Then who were you suggesting perhaps needs therapy? Just curious...:confused::confused:

And...yup...I drive a truck too. Not a clue what that has to do with anything...

Now you got me curious...so I went through all the pages of this thread...to find where I said I am afraid of guns...and do you know what? I didn't. So please...you don't like your words twisted...neither do I.

[chocolatepuppy]

Then who were you suggesting perhaps needs therapy? Just curious...:confused::confused:

And...yup...I drive a truck too. Not a clue what that has to do with anything...

Now you got me curious...so I went through all the pages of this thread...to find where I said I am afraid of guns...and do you know what? I didn't. So please...you don't like your words twisted...neither do I.

Maybe you can go back through again and see who I said 'perhaps' might need therapy, not quoting it 'yet' again.

No clue here either about the TRUCK thing. Not the one who first brought up vehicles.

Ok, so you don't like guns, is that right? Again, my mistake, very sorry.:o

Maybe we can change this thread to the ES and CP thread, ya think? y-a-w-n

[Edwina's Secretary]

Maybe you can go back through again and see who I said 'perhaps' might need therapy, not quoting it 'yet' again.

No clue here either about the TRUCK thing. Not the one who first brought up vehicles.

Ok, so you don't like guns, is that right? Again, my mistake, very sorry.:o

Maybe we can change this thread to the ES and CP thread, ya think? y-a-w-n

Thank you for apologizing. I will let it go that I did quoted you as saying "perhaps" but why be petty? ;);)

So there you have it...I don't like guns...you do. Neither an opinion warranting therapy.

[RICHARD]

54540

[chocolatepuppy]

Thank you for apologizing. I will let it go that I did quoted you as saying "perhaps" but why be petty? ;);)

So there you have it...I don't like guns...you do. Neither an opinion warranting therapy.
Good morning ES! I never said people who don't like guns need therapy.

[RICHARD]

Thanks Richard, I'm just headed out in my TRUCK! Now I can worry about the gasoline too!:D

My dad had a rifle rack in his truck, until he put on the brakes one day and was hit in the head with a gun.

That guns in trucks can be a hazard too.

--------------------------

My truck is champagne colored.;)

[Lady's Human]

A prime reason we need to ban vehicles:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/us/texas-fatal-crash/index.html?hpt=us_c2

According to the headline, the SUV flipped.

Unlike SUVs, firearms require someone pulling the trigger.

[catlady1945]

A prime reason we need to ban vehicles:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/us/texas-fatal-crash/index.html?hpt=us_c2

According to the headline, the SUV flipped.

Unlike SUVs, firearms require someone pulling the trigger.

The "trucks are as dangerous as guns" argument is just plain silly!

[Lady's Human]

The "trucks are as dangerous as guns" argument is just plain silly!

Not silly at all. How many traffic deaths are there every day vs. the number of firearms related deaths?

Factor in the number of deaths which occur on mass transit systems, and personal vehicle use is just suicidal. We should all be riding trolleys/trains/etc. and ban vehicles. Think of all the lives which could be saved!

[Edwina's Secretary]

And today a woman from LA was arrested on suspicion of killing her husband with a coffee mug. Let's ban coffee mugs. :D:D:D

Okay...now that we are done being silly...let's look at the HUGE differences between vehicular accidents and shootings.

What a tragedy that those five people were killed when the tire blew causing a rollover. There will be an investigation. What could have prevented this horrible accident? Seat belts? Was the tire defective? Is the SUV unbalanced? People will be looking for what could have prevented the accident and how to prevent a reoccurrence. And the survivors of those who were killed will sue the manufacturer of the tires and the SUV. Because neither performed as expected. It is not expected to die from the correct use of tires or SUVs.

Now...let's replace the SUV with a gun. You can pick the style and caliber. Five people are killed. Instead of "how can we prevent this sort of thing" we will hear..."2nd amendment rights!' "I cannot be free unless I have a gun!" "If guns are controlled only criminals will have guns!" (Yawn...) Can the survivors of those killed by the gun sue the manufacturer of the gun? Of course not because...and here it comes...the gun performed as expected...it killed...

So there you have it...to compare vehicular deaths...or deaths by coffee mugs to death by shooting - is fallacious at best. A bit like a shell game where the con artist gets you to see things that aren't really there!

[Lady's Human]

Quite the contrary. If you figure the statistical probabilities of death from firearms (# of firearms vs number of deaths annually) vs the number of deaths by vehicle (again, use the same calculation) the motor vehicle is far, far more likely to kill when operated as designed. There are more firearms than vehicles in the United States, and far more vehicular deaths, be they homicides (vehicular homicide is a fairly common charge) or other incidents. In a vehicular homicide, the vehicle performed as designed, and someone died, therefore the end conclusion using your logic is the same, vehicles MUST be banned.

[RICHARD]

..Tennis referee arrested in LA death of husband

By LINDA DEUTSCH (AP Special Correspondent) | The Associated Press – 12 hours ago

.....LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A professional tennis referee from Los Angeles who for years has officiated matches between the game's top players was arrested Tuesday in New York City on a felony warrant charging her with killing her elderly husband in April.

Prosecutors said 70-year-old Lois Ann Goodman, a longtime line judge on the tennis circuit, was taken into custody as she prepared to work at the U.S. Open tournament.

She was charged with murdering her 80-year-old husband, Alan Goodman, in their home in Woodland Hills, Calif. Prosecutors allege she bludgeoned him to death with a coffee mug on April 17.

When the death was reported, Lois Goodman told police it appeared to have been an accident and she had been out all day refereeing a tennis match, according to Lt. David Storaker of the Los Angeles Police Department.

''She arrived home and she said the house was locked up,'' he said.


In this photo taken in 2008, Lois Goodman is shown officiating a CIF tennis tournament. (AP photo)
When Goodman found her husband unresponsive in bed, ''she said she surmised he had fallen down the steps, had a heart attack and managed to get back upstairs to the bed,'' Storaker said.

''It was a suspicious death from the beginning,'' he added.

Los Angeles County coroner's office spokesman Ed Winter said Alan Goodman's body was immediately transported to a mortuary.

''We sent investigators to the mortuary, and we noticed that his injuries were inconsistent with a fall,'' Winter said. ''The autopsy revealed he had multiple sharp force injuries about the head.''

Storaker said officers later returned to the scene with a search warrant and found evidence inconsistent with Goodman's story. He said the amount of blood in the condo did not suggest a fall. They also found a broken coffee mug.

Winter said the coroner's office worked on the case with Los Angeles police and eventually it was ruled a homicide and presented to the district attorney's office. A warrant for her arrest was issued on Aug. 14.

A tennis official said she thinks Goodman is innocent.

''I've worked with her for years and I don't believe any of this,'' Annette Buck, director of adult and senior tennis at the U.S. Tennis Association, told the Los Angeles Times.

Buck described Lois Goodman as a good official and said she was arrested as she was getting on a bus to the U.S. Open.

--------------------

First trucks, now coffee cups?:eek:

[Lady's Human]

Tough coffee cup. I need to get me one 'o them.

[RICHARD]

Tough coffee cup. I need to get me one 'o them.

Remember, the end with the handle is the dangerous side?:eek:

[RICHARD]

I really want this this gun.....to take care of those that bug me.


http://bugasalt.com/faq/

[pomtzu]

Should coffee be banned too? Was the mug full of coffee when the attack started? If it was, he could have actually aspirated some and choked to death on it, and those sharp force injuries about the head could very well be secondary. :rolleyes::p

[Lady's Human]

And my point remains the same.

It's not the tool that should be feared, it's just an inanimate object.

It's the person using it who should be feared.

[Karen]

If we just banned humans, the problem would be solved! Oh, wait - we ARE humans .... hmmmm ....

[Edwina's Secretary]

And my point remains the same.

It's not the tool that should be feared, it's just an inanimate object.

It's the person using it who should be feared.

I agree! Someone has suggested that people are afraid of guns...I suppose some are. Some people are afraid of heights as well. Or public speaking.

I will say what I AM afraid of - people who have guns. Especially people who feel the need to take their guns out in public. And even more afraid of people who feel the need to own military style guns. That does not mean I cower in my home afraid to go in public places. It just means I do what I can to avoid these people. There is a reason you hear "armed and dangerous."


Quite the contrary. If you figure the statistical probabilities of death from firearms (# of firearms vs number of deaths annually) vs the number of deaths by vehicle (again, use the same calculation) the motor vehicle is far, far more likely to kill when operated as designed. There are more firearms than vehicles in the United States, and far more vehicular deaths, be they homicides (vehicular homicide is a fairly common charge) or other incidents. In a vehicular homicide, the vehicle performed as designed, and someone died, therefore the end conclusion using your logic is the same, vehicles MUST be banned.

Sorry LH - your argument is still fallacious. To make your stretch you would have to compare the exposure to guns that result in death and the exposure to vehicles that result in death. You have not even taken inot consideration the number of guns vcs the number of vehcules. I think your "fairly common charge of vehicular homicide" hyperbole. How do you define "fairly common"? Once a day?

About 25% of adults in the US own guns. As there are about 250,000 vehicles in the US - there is a huge difference in exposure. Quibble with the numbers if you like - it doesn't take much thinking to recognize that comparing the number of deaths by gun to deaths by vehicle is invalid.

It is a good stretch...but still a stretch. You have apples, oranges and peaches - and all you have produced is fruit salad.

So why can't I sue the manufacturer of a gun if it kills someone?

[Lady's Human]

250,000 vehicles in the US? That's an very poor estimate, as is the 25% of adults owning firearms.

according to the census bureau, in 2006 there were 48,000 deaths in motor vehicle accidents.

In that same year there were 13000 homicides involving firearms.

You can parse, twist and adjust statistics however you care to, but the end result is the same. you are far, far more likely to be killed by a motor vehicle than a firearm.

[Karen]

This thread is beginning to remind me of a saying from Grandma Paterson: "Two stubborn beaks of equal strength can stretch a worm to any length!" And, she'd point out, still be hungry while doing so!

[pomtzu]

This thread is beginning to remind me of a saying from Grandma Paterson: "Two stubborn beaks of equal strength can stretch a worm to any length!" And, she'd point out, still be hungry while doing so!

The worm eventually has to break..........:p Who wins, the beak with the bigger length - kinda like with the wishbone? :D

[chocolatepuppy]

My dad had a rifle rack in his truck, until he put on the brakes one day and was hit in the head with a gun.

That guns in trucks can be a hazard too.

--------------------------

My truck is champagne colored.;)
Never fear Richard,if I ever have a concealed weapon permit, it won't be a rifle in my truck.;)


Should coffee be banned too? Was the mug full of coffee when the attack started? If it was, he could have actually aspirated some and choked to death on it, and those sharp force injuries about the head could very well be secondary. :rolleyes::p
What if I drink tea, not coffee? Is the mug just as dangerous?:p


And my point remains the same.

It's not the tool that should be feared, it's just an inanimate object.

It's the person using it who should be feared.

Amen!;)

[pomtzu]

What if I drink tea, not coffee? Is the mug just as dangerous?:p



Didn't your mother teach you to use a teacup??? :confused::D

[RICHARD]

If we just banned humans, the problem would be solved! Oh, wait - we ARE humans .... hmmmm ....

Just for the record?

Coley Mitchell, Lab Tech, Found Drunk, Partially Clothed, Surrounded By Escaped Monkeys

Coley Mitchell, 32, was arrested for public drunkenness after being discovered in a locker room intoxicated, with his pants half down and two lab monkeys running around.

A lab tech at Georgia Health Sciences University may have engaged in too much monkey business.

Officials jailed Coley Mitchell, 32, on August 13 after he was discovered intoxicated with his pants down in a campus locker room.

In the same room: two lab monkeys who had been let out of their cages, the Augusta Chronicle reported.

Mitchell smelled of alcohol, according to police reports, and became belligerent and combative when asked to leave the room.

Mitchell was booked on charges of public drunkenness, but was released on Aug. 17, and has since been terminated by the university, a spokeswoman told The Huffington Post.

"GHSU does not condone behavior that conflicts with the research, education and clinical missions of the university and employees are expected to conduct themselves, at all times, with integrity and respect," Jennifer Hilliard Scott, senior media relations coordinator, in a statement to WJBF-TV made before the termination.

Meanwhile, the monkeys that were found running loose have examined by a veterinarian and found to be unharmed, WRDW-TV reported.

---------------------------------

"GHSU does not condone behavior that conflicts with the research, education and clinical missions of the university and employees are expected to conduct themselves, at all times, with integrity and respect,"

And the monkeys get away with a slap on the wrist?

If I had a choice - I'd lock myself in a cage until the cops showed up.

Primates, Humans.........nope.;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

250,000 vehicles in the US? That's an very poor estimate, as is the 25% of adults owning firearms.

according to the census bureau, in 2006 there were 48,000 deaths in motor vehicle accidents.

In that same year there were 13000 homicides involving firearms.

You can parse, twist and adjust statistics however you care to, but the end result is the same. you are far, far more likely to be killed by a motor vehicle than a firearm.

Well duh! If there are far, far more motor vehicles than guns that stands to reason. But it doesn't mean vehicles are more dangerous than guns. It just means there are more of them. If you want to make this argument you have to look at vehicle deaths to number of vehicles as compared to gun deaths to number of guns.

You would tear me to pieces if I made such a sloppy argument...You can do better than that!

[Karen]

Didn't your mother teach you to use a teacup??? :confused::D

In my case, I know how to use a teacup, sure, and own many, but a mug hold much more, and keeps its temperature better! :D

[chocolatepuppy]

Didn't your mother teach you to use a teacup??? :confused::D

Ha ha! I never use a teacup, I prefer mugs!:p:D

[Lady's Human]

Ha ha! I never use a teacup, I prefer mugs!:p:D

Besides, if you hold the teacup just so, the dogs probably look at you funny.

[Edwina's Secretary]

To me the wonder of pets is that they love you...no matter how you hold your teacup...:love::love::D

[pomtzu]

In my case, I know how to use a teacup, sure, and own many, but a mug hold much more, and keeps its temperature better! :D


Ha ha! I never use a teacup, I prefer mugs!:p:D

Oh my goodness - that is just so socially unacceptable! :eek: What would the Queen think/say?? :confused::p

[Alysser]

Ha ha! I never use a teacup, I prefer mugs!:p:D

Oh come on, we all KNOW red solo cups are better ;)

[pomtzu]

Oh come on, we all KNOW red solo cups are better ;)

There ya' go - thinking about beer again..........:p

[RICHARD]

Oh come on, we all KNOW red solo cups are better ;)

That's when you curl your pinky under bottom, to keep the cup from falling thru you fingers!:D

[pomtzu]

Yet another shooting..........this time someone opened fire outside the Empire State building - reporting at least 5-10 shot. Not really much info yet.

More fuel for the fire for this thread. It will never end. :mad:

[pomtzu]

I guess the shooter wasn't aware that a pick-up truck is even more lethal.

Not exactly a joking matter, or appropriate comment - is it???:mad:

[lizbud]

Not exactly a joking matter, or appropriate comment - is it???:mad:


Oh I don't know. Sometimes it's better to laugh than go mad .This is a crazy crazy world we live in.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I see nothing inappropriate about it. In fact, it is what I am thinking.

And especially as we have had a page or so of people joking about a death by coffee mug!

[pomtzu]

I just didn't find an implication to the OK City bombing, as a laughing matter. Must just be my stuffy old age speaking. The coffee mug references were just plain silly and it did lighten the "discussion" a bit too. Of course - JMHO.

ETA: My apology - and I stand corrected. A pick up truck was NOT used in the OK City bombing. So I guess the pick up truck reference was acceptable and funny afterall. :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I just didn't find an implication to the OK City bombing, as a laughing matter. Must just be my stuffy old age speaking. The coffee mug references were just plain silly and it did lighten the "discussion" a bit too. Of course - JMHO.

ETA: My apology - and I stand corrected. A pick up truck was NOT used in the OK City bombing. So I guess the pick up truck reference was acceptable and funny afterall. :rolleyes:

It was a Ryder box truck. I was working for Ryder at the time and was in the Kansas City office when the FBI came to look at the rental records. One of the reasons they were able to so quickly aprehend the bad guys was that Ryder has an identifying number put on many of the pieces of the truck - axles, engine block, etc. So when the truck blew up it was still possible to identify the truck and from there to who rented it.

My husband also worked for Ryder at the time. Shortly afterward he was on a plane wearing a shirt with the company logo on it. Another passenger lit into him...how could he wear that shirt! Yelling at him. Apparently being the employee of a company from which a terrorist rents a truck is shameful....:confused::confused::rolleyes:

[chocolatepuppy]

I wish I had my gun with me out in the back yard with the dogs last night! Two big guys were in my neighbor across the streets back yard. Her husband was not home. Layla spotted them and started barking, they started running. Some quick calls and several neighbors shining spotlights and they came running back through, jumped in the back of a pick up truck and took off. The vehicle description was given to the city cop sitting in a parking lot three tenths of a mile up the road. That is a waste of time, we live in the township.:rolleyes:
Would I have chased them if I had my gun? No. What would I have done if they ran up to me? Whatever they want I suppose, seeing as I was unarmed.:( I wonder if they were selling Avon at 10:30 at night and figured since the husband wasn't home (his truck wasn't in the driveway) they'd go to the back door? If we wouldn't have scared them, would my dearest friend across the street not be alive today? Only if she couldn't get to her gun before they got upstairs to her room.
This is why I have a gun on my dresser. Seems I'm not very smart or it would have been in my hand out in the yard.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Brilliantly stated in a simple way. I agree, 100%.

Gun control is ineffective on people who commit mass slayings. They have nothing to loss, just don't care, etc. They apparently don't care much about the lives they've ruined much less the gun laws they broke. I don't think people really have use for automatic weapons either, but it is your constitutional right to have them yet even that is being taken away. I do believe in the right to bear arms because I believe the principles of which this country was founded on. My point is, the gun is NOT the issue, and someone could argue that with me until they are blue in the face, but I will never believe it is. The gun doesn't shoot itself. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get these weapons, maybe you don't need 'em, but you do have a right to own them and that shouldn't be taken away because of psycho paths who wouldn't follow the laws and would find a different way to get them anyway.

I agree with this 110%.

[Karen]

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Two people were killed and at least eight were wounded in a shooting outside the landmark Empire State Building in New York City on Friday, a New York police source said".

I guess the shooter wasn't aware that a pick-up truck is even more lethal.

The sad part is all the wounded were apparently wounded by the bullets of police officers. We'll see, when it all is investigated fully, what the truth turns out to be.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The sad part is all the wounded were apparently wounded by the bullets of police officers. We'll see, when it all is investigated fully, what the truth turns out to be.

Every time I hear some jamoke say, after the latest shooting..."if only someone in the school/classroom/hair salon/movie theater, etc. etc. had a gun!" Here we see trained professionals who create collateral damage. When will people understand it is not like the movies...a clean shot to the head of the bad man?????.:confused::confused: No one else is hurt and everyone is back in the next episode without so much as a limp!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Opps! Don't you hate when that happens??

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/11/13800398-cops-woman-kills-husband-mistaking-him-for-intruder?lite

[Randi]

If the woman isn't charged, I can picture where this going. :eek:

[Karen]

Opps! Don't you hate when that happens??

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/11/13800398-cops-woman-kills-husband-mistaking-him-for-intruder?lite

Don't blame this on the gun, she could have just as easily bashed his head in with a baseball bat or something!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Don't blame this on the gun, she could have just as easily bashed his head in with a baseball bat or something!

But she didn't. She didn't keep a baseball bat beside the bed. She kept a gun. And killed him.

He might have survived a baseball bat.

What could have been has nothing to do with what is. She shot him...with a gun...and he is dead.

I do not blame it on the gun. it is the fault of the person who had the gun. I hope she will be held accountable.

Either way -though - blame her or the gun - her husband is no less dead.

[Alysser]

Geez, and it wasn't even in the middle of the night or something. Seems a little fishy...I hope she gets some charges pressed too.

[Cataholic]

If it was intentional, she should be charged with manslaughter or murder (not sure of the necessary elements in the state). If it was accidental, she has a life sentence anyway. How very tragic.

It wasn't the gun's fault, of course, it was the fault of the untrained woman that held the gun. Like ES said, it is very possible he would have survived the baseball bat attack, or the pepper spray attack, a knife attack, or the alarm on the front door going off. Guns tend to make things so final.

[RICHARD]

If it was intentional, she should be charged with manslaughter or murder (not sure of the necessary elements in the state). If it was accidental, she has a life sentence anyway. How very tragic.

It wasn't the gun's fault, of course, it was the fault of the untrained woman that held the gun. Like ES said, it is very possible he would have survived the baseball bat attack, or the pepper spray attack, a knife attack, or the alarm on the front door going off. Guns tend to make things so final.

If she had a bat she could have bumped up her OBP........

[Edwina's Secretary]

Another "opps!" moment. Man shoots son... http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/28/14134818-police-connecticut-man-kills-suspected-burglar-then-learns-its-his-teenage-son?lite

[Randi]

So what do you think would have happened if the father had not had a gun?

[caseysmom]

So what do you think would have happened if the father had not had a gun?

The boy had a weapon coming at the dad...the dad may have been killed by the son that was commiting a crime.

[RICHARD]

I really find it funny that people are 'up in arms' about an incident where stupidity starts and ends the event.

This stupid kid is dressed in a balaclava and playing ninja in the middle of the night.

The stupid father, instead on hunkering down, calling the cops and waiting?

He plays BBA, goes out and shoots his kid.

So, who really is at fault?

[Edwina's Secretary]

So, who really is at fault?

George Zimmerman??? He made it "fashionable" to shoot based on fashion choices.

Is fault the issue? I am always amazed about people who think that who is at "fault" is the first question to ask. The kid is no less dead, the dad is no less devastated regardless of "fault."

I have my opinion of "fault". But in the end...guns kill - that what they are made to do.

[RICHARD]

Here we go again! Those bad guns are on the loose!


"NEW FAIRFIELD, Conn. - A U.S. man fatally shot a masked teenager in self-defence outside his neighbour's house during what he thought was an attempted burglary and then discovered it was his son, state police said."

I blame masks, nightime and teen-hood.

[Edwina's Secretary]

10,000 rounds of ammunition. That's what the Minneapolis shooter had.

In addition to killing the owner of the company and a couple of co-workers, he shot the FedEx guy who was making a delivery.

Who shall we blame this one on?? People who get fired??

[Randi]

I blame the government for letting anyone other than the police run around with a loaded gun. :rolleyes: Who will be next?

[RICHARD]

I blame the government for letting anyone other than the police run around with a loaded gun. :rolleyes: Who will be next?

Not just the government, the idiot politicians are to blame also....

Did we ever figure out how many people going against the laws of gravity that get hurt/killed?;)

[RICHARD]

I blame the government for letting anyone other than the police run around with a loaded gun. :rolleyes: Who will be next?

Not just the government, the idiot politicians are to blame also....

Did we ever figure out how many people going against the laws of gravity that get hurt/killed?;)

-----------------

Camacho 2012

[Edwina's Secretary]

Keeping us safe.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/delma-towler-dead-shot-police-83-year-old_n_1913676.html

[RICHARD]

Wha-wha-what?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Wha-wha-what?

I am sorry sweetie. Did I use words you don't understand again?

[blue]

I am sorry sweetie. Did I use words you don't understand again?

You confuse Richard? Are you contagious? I was not aware confusion was contagious.

The Huff Post probably made his head explode with its liberalism. Im glad you feel safer that the police have gunned down an elderly woman.

[RICHARD]

You confuse Richard? Are you contagious? I was not aware confusion was contagious.

The Huff Post probably made his head explode with its liberalism. Im glad you feel safer that the police have gunned down an elderly woman.


Did someone say explode?:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=31vm3-BQRJU

[Edwina's Secretary]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/21/14596819-report-multiple-people-shot-near-milwaukee-area-mall?lite

[Edwina's Secretary]

or a nine year old??? It is so hard to distinguish, isn't it?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/21/14598776-9-year-old-girl-shot-after-relative-mistakes-her-for-skunk?lite

[mon]

I really don't see that there is any good opinion either way on this bizarre topic. I am a pacifist. I don't believe in violence. If I had a loaded gun at the ready to save a loved one or my own life, I would not hesitate to shoot the interloper to death and I highly doubt I would ever feel a twinge of regret. That being said, there are a lot of variables. Kids breakin' into your safe to check it out of curiosity. My dad had guns in his safe and he left it open when my brother popped by with his three young sons out of the blue. Well the kids wandered downstairs whilst no-one was payin' any mind as children tend to do. Needless to say, my bro never popped by unnanounced again. Put the fear of God in him and I do beieve my dad felt like crap 'till the day he died about that horrible wee freaky faux pas. He was not expecting company, simply cleanin' his guns,. Not harm done, but it could have turned into one helluva a nightmare. Robbers turning the gun on you and also stealin' it to kill and or rob other folks. There was an older, very back man who use collec our cans, early in the morning, sometimes late at night as well. If I felt threatened and shot him to death' well I'm not to sure if I'd be able to live with meself. Ol dude was harmless. Just tryingo make a living and feed his self. I'm not sure about this question. I think if anyone is certain about this issue, maybe they should think about it more. Fact is, if ya'll wanna gun, easy to get one, no.

[mon]

Oh ya, forgot to mention, not much daylight in long Canadian winters. Pretty hard to see. especially when yer takin' out yer trash and forget to wear yer glasses. :eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Chicken Pluckers (http://t.news.msn.com/us/deadly-shooting-reported-at-calif-business)

[Edwina's Secretary]

A 65-year-old man was airlifted from Silver City to an El Paso hospital after he was shot by the gun shop employee with a .45 handgun.

SILVER CITY, N.M. — An employee at a New Mexico gun shop who was unloading a handgun accidentally shot and wounded a customer in the back, authorities said Wednesday.

The 65-year-old customer, who has not been identified, was airlifted from Silver City to an El Paso, Texas, hospital after the shooting on Tuesday and was listed in good condition, police Capt. Steve Reese said.

The shooting occurred at Copper Country Sporting Arms and involved a .45 caliber handgun, Reese said.

"It was pretty unusual," he said. "We hadn't seen any signs of foul play or anything like that."

Reese said the case had been handed over to prosecutors who will make a decision on whether any charges should be filed.

The name of the employee was not released.

A person who answered the phone Wednesday at Copper Country said the store would not comment.

The store is listed on Silver City's tourism website as a shop that sells guns, ammunition, bows, archery supplies and related sporting goods.

Reese said the store has not had any previous problems.

Silver City is located in southwestern New Mexico

[lizbud]

We had a shooting in a gun store a while back. Bullets were flying in all directions. Crook (customer)shoots store worker & then worker shoots customer.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/1-killed-in-attempted-robbery-at-don-s-guns-in-indianapolis Gun stores can be dangerous places.

[Alysser]

We had a shooting in a gun store a while back. Bullets were flying in all directions. Crook (customer)shoots store worker & then worker shoots customer.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/1-killed-in-attempted-robbery-at-don-s-guns-in-indianapolis Gun stores can be dangerous places.

He shot a guy who shot at him? Do you blame him? That's why guns are good to have around.

You can google search, "guns are dangerous" and find plenty of articles. It's all about what you search.

I've never felt unsafe in a Gun/Hunting Store and I've been in quite a few with my Dad.

[RICHARD]

Another view?

--------------

I really love you baby
I love what you've got
Let's get together, we can
Get hot
No more tomorrow, baby
Time is today
Girl, I can make you feel
Okay
No place for hidin' baby
No place to go
You pull the trigger of my
Love gun, (love gun), love gun
Love gun, (love gun), love gun


-KISS, P. Stanley

[Edwina's Secretary]

Another view...that of a mother


MIAMI (AP) — The mother of a 13-year-old south Florida girl who was fatally shot while riding a school bus with her younger sister says the child was "fun-loving, helpful, a happy girl," according to a statement released by the family.

A 15-year-old boy was in juvenile detention Wednesday, charged with manslaughter after police say he took a gun out of a backpack and showed it to other students during the ride to school on Tuesday. Investigators say he fired it once in an apparent accident, striking Lourdes Guzman.

The girl, known as Jina to her family and friends and identified as Lourdes Guzman-DeJesus on her Facebook page, died later at a Miami hospital.

"Feels like just yesterday I saw her running around in her Pamper, dancing and modeling for the camera," said the girl's mother, who identifies herself on Facebook as Ady DeJesus, in the statement. "Times and moments spent with Jina are memories I will cherish and keep in my heart forever."

The boy was also charged with carrying a concealed weapon. He waived his right to appear in court Wednesday morning and will remain in a juvenile detention center. He is not being identified by The Associated Press because of his age.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A 45 year old man from Southfield, Michigan is recovering after shooting his own penis in a fluke accident Tuesday, June 12th. The incident took place in Birmingham, Michigan while the man was working for an unnamed air conditioning company.

It has been reported the man routinely carries a Glock pistol hidden in his pants wherever he goes, including to work. While he was adjusting the .40-caliber weapon it discharged, shooting him in the penis at around 11 a.m. - and his day was officially ruined.

He was taken to Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan where he was treated and underwent surgery. At this time it is unknown if the man, whose name is still not known, is still in the hospital or not.

To make matters worse, he may be facing charges of a reckless discharge of a firearm, but the local prosecutor is still making that determination. The man does have the required legal permits to possess and carry the firearm.
..

[lizbud]

While he was adjusting the .40-caliber weapon it discharged, shooting him in the penis at around 11 a.m. - and his day was officially ruined.

..


Talk about an understatement. LOL :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Shoot you of course!


Florida man pleads not guilty to shooting teen to death over loud music


Jacksonville Sheriff's Office


Michael Dunn is accused of the shooting death of Jordan Davis.

By Elizabeth Chuck, NBC News

A Florida gun collector has pleaded not guilty to a murder charge alleging that he opened fire on a car full of unarmed teenagers, killing one, in an altercation that police say stemmed from loud music.

Michael David Dunn, 45, acted “as any responsible firearms owner would have,” his lawyer said of the Friday evening incident at a gas station outside a convenience store in Jacksonville, Fla.

Dunn and his girlfriend were in Jacksonville for his son's wedding when they pulled up in their car next to the teens. Police allege that while the girlfriend was in the store, Dunn told Jordan Russell Davis, 17, and his three friends to turn down their music.

"It was loud," Jacksonville homicide Lt. Rob Schoonover said of the teens' music. "They admitted that. That's not a reason for someone to open fire."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After an exchange of words, Dunn began shooting with a handgun, Schoonover said.

"Nobody else in that vehicle was struck; it was just our victim [Davis], which was lucky because the vehicle was shot eight or nine times," Schoonover said.

Davis was in the back seat and was struck twice, reported The Orlando Sentinel.

Dunn and his girlfriend drove off and spent the night at their hotel, according to Schoonover, but witnesses took down his license plate number. Police arrested him Saturday morning at his home in Satellite Beach, Fla., on one charge of murder and three charges of attempted murder.

"His side of the story is he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action," Schoonover said.

On Monday, Dunn -- a gun collector who shot at local gun ranges, according to authorities -- pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court, with his attorney describing his actions as self-defense.

[Karen]

How anyone could think that was the "responsible" thing to do is beyond me. Yes, loud music is annoying and potential damaging to one's hearing, but it is no life-threatening, and need not be met with lethal force. No doubt, if he didn't have a gun, he would have resorted to some other means of violence, and who know where that might have ended.

[Catty1]

Self-defense? He could have driven away!

[lizbud]

That guy should have his licence revoked & be required to get rid of all firearms. If this goes to trial & the man convicted of murder or manslaughter,
wouldn't he be ineligble to own a gun? He clearly shows he is not responsible enough to own or carry a gun.

The guy in this story (below) deserves much more punishment that he'll ever get around here. It just makes me sick to think how much this
animal suffered before he was put down by Officers the next day. Damn shame.:mad:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121127/NEWS02/211270329/Hunter-accused-poaching-rare-albino-deer-southwestern-Indiana?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

[cassiesmom]

There have been two separate incidents of young teens being shot in Chicago over the past couple of days. One was a girl who was at a slumber party. She was shot several times and died at the hospital. They're saying it might have been gang-related and a case of mistaken identity. The girl was an honor student attending a charter school, and she had no known gang affiliations. Neither did the girl who was hosting the sleepover. The other was a boy who was shot on the street and was also thought to be gang-related. Both of these stories were in the newspapers and on the TV news. It is just sad. There is no easy answer to the problem of gangs and guns in Chicago. The situation doesn't improve because the gangs have a lot of power. Very sad and not likely to end any time soon. The mayor and chief of police have both said they want to do all they can to stop the violence but it needs to be approached from a lot of directions- education, jobs, housing, poverty, support for parents and families, and on and on. Very tough problem.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A 7-year-old boy was fatally shot by his father outside a gun shop in western Pennsylvania, according to a Pennsylvania State Police report.

Joseph Loughrey, the father, had gone in to Twig’s Reloading Den in East Lackawannock Township some time before 11 a.m. to try to sell a 9 mm Taurus handgun and a scope rifle, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Store managers weren't interested.

Loughrey, 44, and his son, Craig Loughrey, returned to the truck, where Loughrey secured his son in a booster seat on the passenger side. He then placed the long gun in the bed of the truck.

As he got into the truck, he reached to place the handgun into a glove box storage unit, police told the Tribune-Review. That's when it fired.

Authorities were called at 10:53 a.m. local time and found the boy lying next to the truck after a failed attempt at resuscitation. They stayed on scene until after 1 p.m., dispatchers said.

"All evidence at this point would suggest that this incident is accidental," the Pennsylvania State Police report stated.

According to the Tribune-Review, Loughrey didn't realize that a round remained in the gun's chamber.

“This happens all too often where people think the gun was empty,” State Police Lt. Eric Hermick.

Twig’s Reloading Den is an outdoor supply store about 70 miles from Pittsburgh.

Imy Howard, owner of Howard & Son Meat Packing store next door, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that her son heard a shot this morning. She said that Twig’s Reloading Den hosted target shooting in the back parking lot last week but not this week.

A Twig’s employee told the Post-Gazette that the incident was “just an unfortunate accident.”

[Edwina's Secretary]

In a tragic accident, Michael Bayless, a father from Indiana has died after his 3-year-old son shot him with a handgun.

33-year-old Michael Bayless was watching television when the toddler got hold of a .45 caliber weapon and fired. Bayless was pronounced dead on the scene.

“We think that this is purely a tragic accident that happened,” an officer explained.

Police are investigating how the toddler had access to the weapon.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Indeed. Nothing says "Merry Christmas!" or "Happy Holidays!" if you prefer, quite like a shopping mall shooting!

[cassiesmom]

An appeals court ruled that the Illinois ban on carrying a concealed weapon in public is unconstitutional. We'll see what happens now. There is so much gun violence in Chicago but I don't know how the two are related, if at all. Do individual buildings in other states (I'm thinking here of schools, churches and museums) have the individual ability to make themselves "no guns allowed in this building"? That is, no concealed weapons in this particular public place.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A 5-year-old Philadelphia girl shot herself while playing with a gun Tuesday night, according to police.

The girl was home in the Kensington neighborhood with her two siblings and her father when the gun went off -- hitting her in the big toe, police said.

The girl's father rushed her to St. Christopher's Hospital with what police called minor injuries.

It's unclear how the girl got a hold of her father's gun and if her siblings were also playing with it.

The investigation would continue into Wednesday. Police said the girl's father owns the gun because he works in private security.

Yes Cassiesmom - some states have laws about where you cannot take guns. But of course the NRA fights them tooth and nail. There was one nut who fought the prohibition on carrying in an airport.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Posted: 12/10/2012
Last Updated: 1 day ago
TheIndyChannel.com Staff | Email Me



INDIANAPOLIS -

A man shot and killed his mother during a disagreement about taking out the trash, police said.

Officers were called to a home in the 6000 block of Nolte Street just after 4 p.m. Monday.

They found Paula Day, 54, suffering from multiple gunshot wounds. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

"We think it was a dispute about trash, whether taking it out or getting it from the location, between the mother and the son, the son then shot the mother multiple times, fatally wounding her," said Indianapolis police spokesman Officer Kendale Adams.

Day's son, Eric Bowman, 36, then drove into Morgan County, where he led authorities on a short chase before he was shot in the leg by the Brooklyn town marshal, authorities said.

Bowman was taken to Wishard Memorial Hospital in Indianapolis with non-life-threatening injuries.

Police said Bowman does not have a previous criminal record.

Neighbors were shocked by the violence.

"I feel so bad for her (Day's mother). She's an older lady, has been very nice and has been a good neighbor since we've lived here," said neighbor Peggy Murphy.


Watch RTV6 and refresh this page for updates.

[RICHARD]

Someone has to do something about those Syrians.

[Edwina's Secretary]

MISSION VIEJO – Detectives are investigating a home burglary that resulted in 17 firearms being stolen from a Mission Viejo residence.

Investigators believe that sometime between 9:15 a.m. and 12:20 p.m. Wednesday the suspects forced their way into a home in the 24000 block of Delphi Street, said Jim Amormino, an Orange County Sheriff's Department spokesman.

The burglar or burglars apparently broke in through a back window and ransacked the home, stealing more than $200,000 worth of jewelry, cash and firearms.

The firearms, which were in a large gun safe that was pried open, included what Amormino described as "two AR-15 assault rifles and 15 handguns." Authorities described them as "restored" firearms, most of which are gold-plated.

"Our concern, obviously, is that these guns are on the street," Amormino said.

The residents of the home didn't believe that they had been specifically targeted, Amormino said. Authorities did not have a description of the burglary or burglars.

What home is complete without 17 firearms?

Score for the bad guys!

[Edwina's Secretary]

NEWTOWN, Conn. — At least one person, believed to be the gunman, is dead and another wounded in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., according to a local ABC affiliate.

Police report that the school is now cleared of shooters, but they are still treating it as an active shooter situation and all schools in the district remain locked down.

Police are reporting a number of injured parties, the nature of which are not yet clear, The Hartford Courant reported. There are unconfirmed reports of two shooters, one dead, one still at large, according to the paper.

One child was carried from the school by a police officer, according to The Newtown Bee, apparently seriously wounded.

The school superintendent's office says the district has locked down schools as a preventive measure to ensure the safety of students and staff. The superintendent's secretary, Kathy June, says reports of a shooting are not confirmed.

State police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance says they have a number of personnel on the scene to assist.

The Courant reported that police said a shooter was in the main office of the school shortly after 9:40 a.m.

Groups of students — some crying, some holding hands — were being escorted away from the school by their teachers, the Courant reported.

A staging area has been set up for students and their parents near the school.

According to the local ABC affiliate, June released the following statement: "Due to reports of a shooting as yet unconfirmed, the district is taking preventive measures by putting all schools in lockdown until we ensure the safety of all students and staff. All public and private schools in the town are in a lockdown situation."

The district is made up of four elementary schools, two middle schools and one high school.

Newtown is in northern Fairfield County, about 45 miles southwest of Hartford and 80 miles northeast of New York City.

[lizbud]

This is monsterous.:mad: Current count is 26 dead, 18 children and 8 adults. What kind of society have we become?

[cassiesmom]

This is monsterous.:mad: Current count is 26 dead, 18 children and 8 adults. What kind of society have we become?

Who would kill young children right before Christmas? This is tragic.:(

[Edwina's Secretary]

This is monsterous.:mad: Current count is 26 dead, 18 children and 8 adults. What kind of society have we become?

A barbaric, gun-loving society. Where 18th century language is used as an excuse. Where guns are loved more than children.

I am angry and I am crying. This is just too too much.

And please. please - let no one say..."if the teachers were armed this would not have happened." But sadly - someone will...

[pomtzu]

This is monsterous.:mad: Current count is 26 dead, 18 children and 8 adults. What kind of society have we become?

I've been watching the coverage and in tears. I am actually sick to my stomach and feel nauseous! What kind of sorry ba$tard could do this to anyone - especially to little kids??? May the Lord have NO mercy on this sorry soul.....:mad:

[caseysmom]

Me too pom i feel sick

[Randi]

How terrible and tragic. :( :( So many people lost their lives today, most of them children, because of a lunatic with two guns. When will things change? How can so many Americans be in favor of gun ownership! I just don't get it - it has happened several times before.

My sympathy goes to the many families and friends of all these dead people. What a Christmas they will have. :( :(

[aTailOf2Kitties]

great, another nutcase making gun owners look bad. You do realize that for every wacko out there that shoots people there are literally thousands of perfectly responible gun owners? From what I understand the guy had the gun illegally anyway, so he already broke the gun laws before he even pulled the trigger.

Two police officers were shot and one of them was killed by a 15 year old in Memphis today. No way in hell was it legal for a minor to have. Granted, if he was a responsible law-abiding model citizen, they probably wouldn't have raided his house to begin with.

And, I'm not a gun nut, believe me! There are several in the house and my boyfriend has a carry permit. I don't like them at all but I know that if they were harder to own, then people would just become more desperate to get them. Think about it... many drugs are illegal to make, distribute, or abuse too and yet there are tons of desperate people out there who would do even more desperate and despicable things to get them.

gun laws are a tricky issue for sure. But every time there are rumors of tightening the reigns on gun owners, they just go out and buy more while they still can, trust me.

[Alysser]

For the record, NJ has some of the strictest gun laws out there. He is from Hoboken, NJ.

NO ONE wanted anything like this to happen. This is sick, twisted and disgusting. I've cried over it today twice. I am assuming he had something against his family, and he apparently killed most of them too. Unfortunately he had to kill 27 others with them...repulsive. I am disgusted that he comes from the same state as me and that I could have walked right past him at any time.

[Karen]

Please keep all the victims in your prayers, and all the families affected. My church organist for the past two years, who recenty stepped down, is from that town, her cousin and godson attend that school. They are both safe, as is her mother, who works in another school there, which was on lockdown all day, of course.

Please do not try to find sense in all this, although endless talking heads will speculate. It was the shooter's mother, and her classroom and students that were the target, but beyond that, we do not know, and there may be no "why" involved.

[RICHARD]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

China was hit by a spate of knife and cleaver attacks that targeted school children in 2010.

A number of measures were introduced at the time, including increased security at schools across the country and a regulation requiring people to register with their national ID cards when buying large knives.