Should Maths be taught in School ????

[wombat2u2004]

This is the million dollar question.
Altho....I doubt if any of these would even know what a million is.....unless it's coloured green of course :D:D

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/06/27-1

[Freedom]

Hilarious! Sure hope that was a set up vid!

[Bonny]

Hilarious! Sure hope that was a set up vid!

I was thinking the same thing or we are in big trouble.

[Karen]

That's Miss USA - the "beauty" pageant, not Miss America, the Scholarship pageant, thank goodness!

[kitten645]

I love Miss Vermont. :love:

[chocolatepuppy]

I think they should drop Math. It almost kept me from getting out of school!:D

[blue]

Miss Vermont is hot!!

The rest of them are Obama voters.
Or ES thinkers.
Im waiting for the haters to post Sarah Palin's video about math.

[lizbud]

Im waiting for the haters to post Sarah Palin's video about math.



Wonder what made you think of Sarah Palin.:D

[RICHARD]

Wonder what made you think of Sarah Palin.:D

The fact that you have to know there are 57 states in the union?;)

[mrspunkysmom]

That is hilarious.

Stepping on the soapbox and putting on my flame-retardant suit.....

As a teacher of students of mathematics I think we should learn math. And really learn it. Our students set their sights too low.

What are the other disciplines I think our children should study?

Language, at least two. I wish I had seriously studied a foreign language to mastery.

Sciences

Histories and Social Studies

Arts

And Physical Education. Too many of our students are not active enough. Intramural sports should be emphasized in schools again.

And we need to quit complaining about how hard it is.

[phesina]

That looks like a pretty good list to me. Don't they do these subjects now?

What DO they study in school these days?

[mrspunkysmom]

They study it but not in too much detail or much detail at all and they don't really learn it, especially the mathematics and sciences. Before my mom was really sick and passed away, she could still perform arithmetic calculations by hand, including fractions. She could also recite some childhood poems memorized and learned in school.

It seems that our youth are not held accountable for their education any more.

And this can lead to a whole other discussion on accountability.




That looks like a pretty good list to me. Don't they do these subjects now?

What DO they study in school these days?

[wombat2u2004]

They study it but not in too much detail or much detail at all and they don't really learn it, especially the mathematics and sciences. Before my mom was really sick and passed away, she could still perform arithmetic calculations by hand, including fractions. She could also recite some childhood poems memorized and learned in school.

It seems that our youth are not held accountable for their education any more.

And this can lead to a whole other discussion on accountability.

I blame the teachers.
(Wom locks himself in his room so Anne can't get him) :D:D

[mrspunkysmom]

I blame the teachers.
(Wom locks himself in his room so Anne can't get him) :D:D

You and everybody else. They tell you to hold the students accountable, yet "notice" when you have too many failures.

[smokey the elder]

(asbestos suit on) I blame No Child Left Behind, a good idea that had horrendous unintended consequences. The extreme example of this is the Georgia cheating scandal, where the teachers actually altered the answers on standardized tests.

As far as math instruction goes, IMO there is no substitute for the practice/drills that used to be done in elementary school. Math is at the root of all scientific disciplines, as well as accounting and economics. Did you know that compound interest calculation is actually what is called a "differential equation", which is quite advanced math?

(asbestos suit retired.)

[mrspunkysmom]

Sadly, I've never explored the compound interest formula that far, having only one course in DE in college.

[mrspunkysmom]

(asbestos suit on)

As far as math instruction goes, IMO there is no substitute for the practice/drills that used to be done in elementary school. Math is at the root of all scientific disciplines, as well as accounting and economics.

(asbestos suit retired.)

Yes, and the reason these students do not do as well later in math is that the drills are no longer required. It is considered beneath our students and a waste of time.

[Lady's Human]

SO you do the drills at home. (RIght MJ and Axel?)

[wombat2u2004]

I don't know what it's like in the USA, but last year was my daughters final year at school and the maths that she did were beyond me. Most entry requirements for university include a pass in maths.

[mrspunkysmom]

SO you do the drills at home. (RIght MJ and Axel?)

It depends on the family. Most just use a calculator. :(

[mrspunkysmom]

I don't know what it's like in the USA, but last year was my daughters final year at school and the maths that she did were beyond me. Most entry requirements for university include a pass in maths.

Successful school districts have standards.

The real problem is that it is THE USA. We believe that anyone can grow up to be anything they want. And so we try to educate everyone to be a rocket scientist and have difficulty telling someone they can't. Career interests are not explored until half way into the high school years in some school districts.

And there seems to be a sense of entitlement these days. I'm supposed to give them the grade and not make them earn it.

[Lady's Human]

Most irritating story about math education goes to NYC. A couple days ago there was an article on education in NYC, and one school was unable to teach algebra because they didn't have the money to buy graphing calculators.

[mrspunkysmom]

Edit: After re-reading your post, I realize that the sad part is that these educator have gotten stuck in a tech rut and were probably relying on the calculator to help them teach. Done with Edit

Graphing calculators are not necessary to learn algebra. I learned Algebra using pencil paper, graph paper, and my brain.

They are nice, but not necessary. We have become lazy.

The other side of this coin - Who is responsible for the purchase of the calculators? The students will use these all four years of high school and beyond. Shouldn't they purchase or rent the calculator? I bought all of my calculators in college and they were not cheap then either. Although my calculators were used for a backup not the primary calculations.

Again we are back to entitlement and we have become lazy.

[smokey the elder]

LOL at the graphing calculators. Back when I took algebra calculators didn't even exist. "Four bangers" came out my junior year. I remember we were working with equations, and had to actually graph them by hand; some of the equations resulted in beautiful, elegant graphs. Working out the numbers and watching the curve develop is really quite satisfying to a geek like me.

[mrspunkysmom]

Oh, I so agree. My students act like I am subjecting them to cruel and unusual punishment to actually calculate the table values and hand-graph the function.

My mom bought me a four function calculator when I was in 8th grade. It actually worked more like an adding machine at that time . Enter two data values and instruct the calculator what to do. It cost a little more than $30 and I was actually faster in my head for the less complicated computations. It also had to be plugged in.

The funniest graphing calculator story for me. Late 90's and I was teaching Pre-Calculus for the first time. If you remember the old-fashioned way of calculating logarithms, you know where I am going. Finding the Base 10 logarithm of a number between 0 and 1 meant a negative exponent but the log tables were written for positive exponents. So 10^ (9.30103 -10) which is 0.2 actual value shows as -0.69897 on the modern calculator. The answers in the book were different and on the calculator. I had to go to another teacher and ask what the big deal was. I had already figured that out, but I needed confirmation. The class thought I was nuts.

I like the old method better. I think it shows the exponential relationships.


LOL at the graphing calculators. Back when I took algebra calculators didn't even exist. "Four bangers" came out my junior year. I remember we were working with equations, and had to actually graph them by hand; some of the equations resulted in beautiful, elegant graphs. Working out the numbers and watching the curve develop is really quite satisfying to a geek like me.

[Lady's Human]

You can buy one heck of a lot of graph paper and pencils for the cost of a high end graphing calc.

Just like teaching marksmanship......before you use a scope, you learn iron sights.

Get the basics down before introducing technology. There's no need for calculators in high school.

[lvpets2002]

:) LOL This is all just too funny.. Pat I dont think its What Do they study == More Than Its What They Do Not Study in Schools..


That looks like a pretty good list to me. Don't they do these subjects now?

What DO they study in school these days?

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae328/bogart2009/94justbehavenotice.gif

[Husky_mom]

Oh dear God!!..

I´m not a math person.. I hate them.. but what is with this people.. lol.. seems they chose not to take math.. or any other not math :P at all..

it seemed like a made up vid.. but it´s really not that far from the truth.. sadly..


my on topic real answer would be : yes, basic math should be taught.. the kind of math for everyday use.. all of the more complex, advanced, etc.. should be left for those that really like them, understand them and will use them in their lifes/work

[Karen]

For those who are confused, this is a take-off on a question that was actually asked of pageant contestants - "Should evolution be taught in schools."

Here is that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkBmhM0R2A0&feature=player_embedded

I don't think anyone seriously thinks math should not be taught.

[mrspunkysmom]

I don't think anyone seriously thinks math should not be taught.

You haven't met any of my students or their parents. Their idea of learning math is "show me how to do it on the calculator."

A lot of this has to do with the lack of importance placed on it in elementary schools.

[Vette]

Im for all kinds of math being taught but only if 'everyone' learns it. not be like my elementary math teachers who gave the answers to any the student/s when their usual teaching methods didnt work.

[mrspunkysmom]

Im for all kinds of math being taught but only if 'everyone' learns it. not be like my elementary math teachers who gave the answers to any the student/s when their usual teaching methods didnt work.

That's because when a student fails or does poorly these days, instead of putting the responsibility on the student and the family, the blame is put on the teacher.

And we are not allowed to tell the parent that the child has difficulties in that area. Might hurt some feelings.

But I agree with you.

[Bonny]

My daughter in law teaches 2nd grade & has to deal with behavior problems more then anything. They have teachers meetings dealing with children's behavior. They have some really disturbed messed up children to deal with.

Learning basic math is a must. Accounting classes & learning to balance a check book make more sense then finding the square root of whatever? ;)

[mrspunkysmom]

My daughter in law teaches 2nd grade & has to deal with behavior problems more then anything. They have teachers meetings dealing with children's behavior. They have some really disturbed messed up children to deal with.

Learning basic math is a must. Accounting classes & learning to balance a check book make more sense then finding the square root of whatever? ;)

That could get me started. ;)

Later!

[Asiel]

I'll take that video as a joke. I can't believe any student would actually give the answers they did - except for Miss Vermont. Can you imagine students not learning math in schools...how do they expect to survive sanely, just about everything today is based on math. Wonder if they want to get rid of Physics and Biology also....they don't want to learn about evolution , because they don't believe in it ?? You don't have to believe in something to learn it....wonder what happened to the three R's? Most graduates can't read or write today so now they won't know how to count...this is progress??? Unbelievable :eek:

[wombat2u2004]

The Japs have the best solution. The students don't go home until they have learnt the daily lessons.

[mrspunkysmom]

The Japs have the best solution. The students don't go home until they have learnt the daily lessons.

And they take the same test or quiz repeatedly until they get 100%. Calculations are done by hand for basic skills, elementary level math.

If we tried that here, we would hear it from the teachers and the parents.

[Lady's Human]

The Japs have the best solution. The students don't go home until they have learnt the daily lessons.

In which case I'd be doing home schooling. Having a child frustrated and taking the same test over and over again accomplishes nothing but irritating the child and making them hate school. It's school, not boot camp.

[wombat2u2004]

In which case I'd be doing home schooling. Having a child frustrated and taking the same test over and over again accomplishes nothing but irritating the child and making them hate school. It's school, not boot camp.

But consider peer pressure.
"Hah !!! You have to stay back. I can go home and play with my playstation."

It's a good system the Japs have. It's gives the children the incentive to learn whilst they are in class, and it makes them proficient.

Your country is the same as mine, there is no incentive to learn, and we are churning out thousands upon thousands of uneducated kids.
Homeschooling is not the answer, because as usually is the case, the parents are a product of the same system, and don't have the knowledge themselves.
And then you have the parents that just don't care, you have the parents who both work and don't have the time.
My youngest daughter had math tutors, twice a week, but at $80 an hour most people can't afford that. I tried tutoring her, but even with my mathematical background, her work was beyond me.

I have a friend by the name of Sayoko, she is a music teacher, and was educated as a child in her own home country of Japan, and regularly tells me stories about "Night School". She treats both of her daughters the same as she was treated when she was a girl. She takes over after school, and "tops off" their daily lessons. Both of her girls top their school every year.

We have to do something that is better than what we are doing now. Our kids are falling behind the rest of the world in education, and we are creating a generation who rely on the "Fat of the Land". And that's not going to last forever.

[Lady's Human]

The Japanese also have a suicide rate that is horrendous.

There is plenty of incentive to learn. It's called proper parenting. The schools cannot be expected to serve all the ancillary functions that they have been saddled with AND educate in the time allotted.

My kids get additional lessons after school, however, it's not anything formal, I just toss in a few additional math problems, spelling questions, etc, while we're going to wherever we're going or doing chores.

Too much about school has become checking the box and making things look good for a college app rather than real coursework.

[wombat2u2004]

The Japanese also have a suicide rate that is horrendous.

There is plenty of incentive to learn. It's called proper parenting. The schools cannot be expected to serve all the ancillary functions that they have been saddled with AND educate in the time allotted.

My kids get additional lessons after school, however, it's not anything formal, I just toss in a few additional math problems, spelling questions, etc, while we're going to wherever we're going or doing chores.

Too much about school has become checking the box and making things look good for a college app rather than real coursework.

Well, it's our loss mate. If the "powers who be" believe the current educational system is sufficient to meet the country's needs, then so be it.
If we are to rely on proper parenting, then I can see the majority of kids going down the plughole real quick, because as I stated before, proper parenting in regard to their kids education is not something that is practiced by most people, for lots of reasons.
Sure, perhaps the remedy is to get people off their butts and instill in them the importance of their childrens education. But I think most people wouldn't care, or even if they did, they are probably not educated enough themselves to handle such a task, as they are probably a product of exactly the same system.

Which brings us back to square 1.
We need a better system, and I believe that the system the Japanese have in place is much better than what we have in place.

As for suicide.....well.....in Japan, suicide does run rampant I know, but can you attribute that solely to education ???? Or is it cultural problem ????

[Lady's Human]

Their education system is part of their culture. Failure is not allowed. That kind of cultural pressure does some severe damage.

[RICHARD]

Learning is also assisted by how much 'fun' it can be when the idea is presented to children.

Getting a kid to 'learn' is all dependent on how much that child is geared to the topic/subject.

When I was a kid, I had a knack for science and how things worked.

My dad, who had a very limited school experience, would go to flea markets and buy books-mostly incomplete encyclopedia sets- bring them home and let us go thru them.

That stopped when Ma put her foot down because we had run out of room, but I do remember picking them off the shelves and reading about things that made me wonder and want to learn more.

------------------


I just saw an article in the daily fish wrapper that says schools are going to stop teaching cursive handwriting, instead focusing on keyboard skills.

I thnk tht tht wll b a HUGE mstke and wll mke ppl, speshly kds, seem mre ignrnt as tme goes by.

[phesina]

They've got to be kidding!

Handwriting is a skill that everyone should develop to the best of his or her ability. Typed abbreviated words will never be proper on, for instance, a wedding celebration card or a funeral condolence card, and I think that would be an insult ever to receive one like that.

[wombat2u2004]

Their education system is part of their culture.

Well I must say that their culture is a lot better than ours educationwise then.

[Lady's Human]

They've got to be kidding!

Handwriting is a skill that everyone should develop to the best of his or her ability. Typed abbreviated words will never be proper on, for instance, a wedding celebration card or a funeral condolence card, and I think that would be an insult ever to receive one like that.

I disagree completely.

Cursive was just an irritation to me in school, never saw the reason behind it when I could print perfectly well.

Eliminating cursive does not mean eliminating the ability to communicate in print, it just means eliminating something from classroom time that has the same real world value as sentence diagrams.

[lizbud]

I disagree completely.

Cursive was just an irritation to me in school, never saw the reason behind it when I could print perfectly well.

Eliminating cursive does not mean eliminating the ability to communicate in print, it just means eliminating something from classroom time that has the same real world value as sentence diagrams.


You have a right to disagree. If you found the practice boring that's your
hangup. Others may feel differently.

Sentence diagrams are a basic tool to learn the relationships between
words in the English language. Without that knowledge you ( the general
you) find it harder to express yourself well & be understood by other
people.

[Lady's Human]

You have a right to disagree. If you found the practice boring that's your
hangup. Others may feel differently.

Sentence diagrams are a basic tool to learn the relationships between
words in the English language. Without that knowledge you ( the general
you) find it harder to express yourself well & be understood by other
people.

I didn't find it boring, I found it pointless.

the basic parts of speech and organizing your thoughts can be taught without spending hour after hour drawing the little lines and pulling apart sentences to state what is otherwise obvious.

Yeah, I got zeros on those homework assignments.

Needless to say, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I can think of better ways to use those hours of classroom time, and kids can be taught the relationship between words without the tedium.