Ron Paul, others to introduce marijuana bill

[NicoleLJ]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20073545-503544.html

"In early June, a 19-member international panel of luminaries called the so-called "war on drugs" a failure, and recommended the United States consider legalizing marijuana in order to better undermine criminal organizations and stop punishing those who "do no harm to others."

"While it is very likely the current piece of marijuana legislation will end up in the same place as Frank's previous two efforts, it is still part of a growing chorus of voices seeking to alter the debate on the war on drugs. With the U.S. spending $15 billion per year on the war on drugs, and with little to no apparent gains made in the last 40 years since it started, theirs will surely not be the last prominent voices to question why marijuana is illegal."


Thoughts?

[Randi]

War on drugs is a failure in the sense that it has made many people believe that marijuana is as dangerous as other drugs, like speed, coke and heroin. Some people just don't grasp the difference, but legalizing marijuana would surely cut down on expenses and the criminal offense of possessing it.

I say it's less harmless than alcohol. I'm not smoking it myself (I'd rather have a glass of wine or a beer), but I have tried it years ago. The people I know who do smoke it, are highly educated and well functioning people and fun to be with.

Like with everything, it's the exaggeration? that harms people.

That's my two cents.


Edit* I'd like to add what John said about the subject, when it was discussed here years ago:

"Alcohol and marijuana have been around for hundreds, presumably thousands of years. And the world would probably look quite a bit different if they hadn’t. I’ve often thought that it would be thought provoking to write a book on “The World’s Greatest Alcoholics”. Alexander the Great was supposed to have drunk up to 10 liters of wine a day (and died when he was about 32). Winston Churchill loved his Cognac. Boris Jeltsin certainly knows how to put a couple of vodkas away. These are very important men who have affected the development of our civilization.
And then there are the arts. How many great works of art have been created “under the influence” of something or other I wonder? (Poets in the 1800’s indulging in opium just one example).

These are all naturally existing drugs, but what about all these complex molecules that we are consuming more and more of nowadays? The wonder drugs that are supposed to solve all our problems. They’re just called PILLS. You’re supposed to take them if you’re hyper, take them if you’re depressed, take them if you’re tired, take them if you’re too thin, take them if you’re too fat, take them if you’ve got a headache. Whatever. There are even reports of drug companies trying to invent disorders so they can produce an antidote and make another million bucks!
If we really knew the truth I think we would be shocked to find out how many “great” men were dependant on “illegal substances”. Here again, in recent times we have people like John F Kennedy (amphetamines and pain killers) and my childhood hero Winston Churchill (a manio-depressive dependant on Benzedrine and alcohol).

… and why do we do this? Partly because we’re inundated with advertisements for these products day in and day out. All in the name of the holy dollar. After all, in a capitalistic society, the drug companies first priority is to make a profit for themselves and their stockholders (just like the tobacco companies). They sometimes find out much later whether their products are harmful to the consumers in the long run, and will always try to deny it.

At least marijuana is a physically non-addictive substance, which alcohol and a majority of pills most definitely aren’t. And the idea that It makes you feel and act stupid and it is more harmful than cigarettes. doesn’t fit with my experience at all."

Jonza

[pomtzu]

I always thought it was customary, that when one posted an issue and asked for thoughts on it, that the OP first stated his/her thoughts/views/opinions first, and then asked for others to state theirs.
So what are your thoughts on it, Nicole? I believe that most people would like to hear yours, before they state theirs. This obviously is an issue with you if you thought strongly enough about it, one way or another, to post about it.

[NicoleLJ]

Very interesting points Randi and an interesting quote to read also. Never realized that about some of the people mentioned.

[smokey the elder]

Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. It led to organized crime, violence, and the gov't spending money trying to fight the organized crime and violence.

Prohibition doesn't work for "illegal" drugs. It leads to organized crime, violence and the gov't spending money to fight the organized crime and violence.

Are some drugs very dangerous? Sure. Just look up the properties of the ones in your medicine cabinet and sold legally in packs. IMO, the long-term answer is to regulate and tax production and consumption, as is done with alcohol and tobacco; and have severe penalties for misbehavior under the influence akin to DWI.

[Grace]

Prescription pills taken as directed are estimated to kill one American every five minutes. More Americans are addicted to medications than cocaine. ...

Our Daily Meds by Melody Petersen



Sept. 18, 2003 -- Marijuana smoking isn't harmless, but at least it won't kill you.

WebMD - Daniel J. DeNoon

[pomtzu]

I'm obviously not going to get a reply to my previous post, so I'll state my opinion in spite of that.
I'm in agreement with Randi 100%. IMO, there are much worse legal products readily available. Of course #1 being alcohol. But what about the common household products that some use to get high by huffing or sniffing - glue, White Out, aerosol propellants, gasoline - just to name a few. These can be deadly or cause serious brain damage.
Years ago (in the 70's) I was employed by the Univ of DE. It was at that time that I experimented with marijuana a couple of times. It was as readily available as a drink of water, and was used by not only the students, but the PHD's, department heads, and probably the university president too. It honestly did nothing for me and I couldn't understand what all the hype was about. I can get more of a buzz by drinking a glass of wine. So those couple of times was enough for me.
The long term effects of marijuana still aren't proven, unlike that of alcohol. However, I would hate to see any pregnant woman smoking pot, or anything else for that matter, and of course no alcohol, if she values her health and that of her unborn child. Marijuana passes thru the placenta to the fetus, and I have read that it can cause miscarriage, stillbirth, ectopic pregnancy, fetal development abnormalities, neurological damage, etc. Yet there are women who discount this and believe that it is less harmful than other factors. Fools!!!
So unless you're male, physically unable to bear children, or past child bearing age, then stay away from the weed! And for others that enjoy it, then I hope that one day it becomes legal. If it does, I would imagine it would come with all the consequences that alcohol does, as far as abuse of the product is concerned.

[Lady's Human]

I think I've posted this before, but here's my take on the issue:

Take 50 guys, put them in a room, and give them a couple kegs of beer.

Take another 50 guys, put them in a room, and give them an equivalent amount of marijuana.

Which group is going to need police assistance sooner?


The only thing the second group is going to endanger is a pan of brownies or the clerk at the local 7-11 after they run out of chips.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But think of all the drug testing facilities that will be put out of business! :D:D:D

[Karen]

But think of all the drug testing facilities that will be put out of business! :D:D:D

No, after all prescription drug abuse is on the rise, sadly. Most people that go through random drug testing, like truck drivers, are screened for a number of things. My buddy once got flagged because she had not known she was going to work that day (got called in mid-morning) and had already a lemon-poppyseed muffin for breakfast. The poppy seeds were enough to trigger a positive for drugs on the test. Thankfully, they had a policy in place and tested her again on subsequent days, and she was clear.

The facilities will still have plenty to do.

[smokey the elder]

That's where the "consequences" part comes in. Say, for example, marijuana becomes legal. A private corporation could still have a drug testing policy (my opinion on that is out of the scope of this debate:p) that people would have to comply with.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Geez Karen. I was joking!

Which I am entitled to do after 20 or so years of dealing with drug testing. I have heard every excuse (poppy seeds, spiked punch, spiked pizza, took my daughter's cough medicine, was with granny while she was smoking medicinal marijuana, parties, etc.) With one employer I worked with DOT requirements for drug testing which are more stringent than others - which is what you are referring to with random in-service. Lots and lots of crazy stories with drug testing.

Probably more than 90% of people who "flunk" drug testing are positive for cannabis. With truck drivers it is often amphetamines.

Drug testing always includes a spectrum of drugs. And it has become a big business.

A client I was working with recently - a temporary employment agency - does their OWN drug testing. They have a machine in the office. Applicants "give a sample" and then it is processed through the machine in the office - on the spot so to speak. If they get a positive the applicant is sent to a medical clinic for further testing. Ick. But they cut the cost from $15 per test to a couple of dollars.

[RICHARD]

Which group is going to need police assistance sooner?


The only thing the second group is going to endanger is a pan of brownies or the clerk at the local 7-11 after they run out of chips.

Shut up.

I once had four stitches put in my wrist after wrestling with a pan of HOMEMADE brownies.

No, they were not 'funny baked goods'. :eek:;)



The baker may have been cooked.:confused:

[RICHARD]

No, after all prescription drug abuse is on the rise, sadly. Most people that go through random drug testing, like truck drivers, are screened for a number of things.

I had my first experience with morphine a few months ago.....

No, not THAT way.....I was in the ER and a nurse came and plugged a syringe into the IV and 'let me have it'.

Not a "good high" at all. No, I didn't ask for it and was really irritated that I had to have it in the first place.

During my stay in the hospital I had three of the most irritating roommates on the planet.

One was a guy a few years older than I was and he constantly complained that he was not being given the "Right Pills" by the docs/RNs.

He stated that he was being given pills that were a different color from the ones he took- this fool didn't know that generics meds are different colors from the 'standard' pills produced by the manufacturers who originally made/figured out the formula.

Another idiot - he was in because his friend -fresh out of jail - sucker punched him in the face and left him with a raccoon mask across his eyes.

This cat told the RNs that he was in huge pain because of the chipped/cracked teeth he had suffered and needed morphine or "anything they could give him" for his woes. The funny part? He was drinking iced tea for his two day stay.
I can think of nothing more painful than a mouth of ice cold liquid with a mouth of busted up teeth.

When the nurse came in and asked me if I wanted a 'pain shot' I told her "No, I didn't like the way it made me feel...."

When she left the room, the guy started in on me about not wanting (morphine).

"I'll take your shot if you don't want it..."

I shot back at him that I didn't like the way it made ME FEEL and let him know what I thought about people that begged for specific drugs. I used a few expletives to punctuate my point and he didn't say much after that.

The last moron I shared the space with was some idiot kid who had a car accident and really didn't seem like he gave a shiat about keeping himself in good health.

When he was brought in he complained about EVERYTHING. His biggest gripe?

His meds.

He knew EVERY med he had taken, was taking and demanded/suggested stronger doses from everyone he spoke to. (It was rather funny because he had all the names, doses, times and increases for all the meds he was given, memorized!)

I had to listen to the litany of meds, the amounts and times a day he had to have them. He also went into detail about how he would like to have the doses increased!

-----------------------------------------------------------

All of them wanted a 'shot' before they were discharged.

And they all were so insistent on getting 'morphed up' that I was seriously wondering if I was getting a contact high just by being in the room with them - that is how badly the exuded the desire to get that last shot of M in.

The whole experience of having to share quarters with a bunch of people who were frigging morph heads gave me more to dislike about anyone who abuses that crap.

It did nothing for me - the docs and RNs were kind of blown away that I had endured my injury with nothing more that aspirin - it made me feel like I had a vise around my head and made me very irritable.

Also, The three 'gents' didn't have the best personalities on the planet.

They were all shady and the one that complained about the pill colors would not leave until they gave him his 'shot of M'.

---------------------

There is a huge problem with people abusing prescript meds and judging from what I saw, heard and experienced in the last two months?

It's way bigger than anyone wants to admit.

[Asiel]

Be careful not to lump everyone in the same bag----Some really do need pretty strong meds just to breathe or move.
There will always be abusers, be it for illegal drugs or prescription drugs.
Everyone has the opportunity to make the choice they feel they want . Some make the wrong choices regardless of who or what they hurt.

[RICHARD]

Be careful not to lump everyone in the same bag----Some really do need pretty strong meds just to breathe or move.
There will always be abusers, be it for illegal drugs or prescription drugs.
Everyone has the opportunity to make the choice they feel they want . Some make the wrong choices regardless of who or what they hurt.

These people were junkies.

They demanded M and one guy was ready to go and he asked every single person - from the dietician, kitchen worker, phys therapist, to the to the nursing mananger if he could have a shot before he left. He signed out AMA
but, wanted to get his shot before he went home.

The last 'kid' was nothing but a disrepectful, punk who called a friend on the phone to pick him up in the parking lot.

This moron was admitted into the room with and infected rod in his leg.

The staff told him NOT TO WALK W/O a cane, crutches.

He walked out of the room and left the building for about 40 minutes after the staff told him NOT TO LEAVE. He was the 'drug whiz' and during one conversation told someone on the phone that "the docs were stupid and didn't know what they were doing".

Out of the five people that I shared a room with?

All three begged for morphine and pitched fits when they were denied or made to wait for an injection....When the nurses came in to ask about our pain levels?

They were offered pills, but, instead wanted an injection. Then acted like little sissies when they were made to wait.

----------------------

I understand people need meds to make it thru a condition or illness. This group were just there for a quick high.

I know junkies/hypes/speedfreaks/meth heads and have seen them when they need a fix.

[Asiel]

I stand corrected. Yes, from your description I can agree that they do sound like junkies or whatever names they go by. Some people will stoop to anything to get their daily "need" I guess. I usually just call them Morons or Idiots for choce of a better description but I guess you just gave me some others to use. Doctors out here would be having the police haul them out if anyone were to be as obn obnoxious and rude.

[Marigold2]

The question is
Why does anyone need to get high?
What is it that you are trying to escape, forget?

Why do people get drunk?
To escape and forget.
You might have a drink to unwind but smoking a joint is different you are higher instantly.

If you need to get high everyday you need to figure out why you can't handle life.

It's not just a way to unwind, it is a whole lifestyle of being high and kicking back and tuning out. TUNING OUT WHAT AND WHY

[pomtzu]

I totally disagree that people that smoke pot, are doing so to escape, forget, or can't handle life's issues.
Some folks enjoy an occasional joint now and then - that doesn't mean that they are addicts and go around stoned all the time. It's no different than people who like to smoke "regular" cigarettes, have a glass of wine with their dinner, or a beer on a hot summer day, or a mixed drink at a party. They simply like the taste and the temporary euphoric feeling. People who run/jog/exercise, get this same feeling. Are they all doing this to escape???? Highly doubtful. :rolleyes:

[Randi]

Pomtzu, I totally agree with what you said.

I know for a fact that a lot of people smoke a joint to wind down, after a stressful day at their job. If you get a good giggle on top, that's just great!

People who eat junkfood, drink alcohol everyday, or take various uppers and downers prescribed by their doctors, are probably worse off in the long run.