Osama bin Laden is dead

[Freedom]

Just being announced on the TV.

[sana]

Searched it up on Wikipedia it says he died yesterday.

[Roxyluvsme13]

It's all over Facebook and Yahoo. Some people are wondering if it's really him or if it's an imposter. Anyone's thoughts?

I mean, the U.S. supposedly has his body and Obama is about to speak about it publically... But wow. Such a long battle trying to find him and now he's just... dead?

[Alysser]

I honestly don't know how to react to this yet. I'm kind of in shock. I don't know whether I believe it or not.

[Freedom]

Saying he was killed earlier, US has his body and has done DNA testing.
Wonder what we had to compare to for that test? :confused:

[Roxyluvsme13]

Saying he was killed earlier, US has his body and has done DNA testing.
Wonder what we had to compare to for that test? :confused:
Well that's interesting. And I'm wondering the same thing.

[kitten645]

He's from a large wealthy family. I'm sure they can compare DNA.
Good ridance to bad rubbish.

[Freedom]

And apparently one of his sisters died of cancer, in Boston, last year.

Another source of DNA.

[Karen]

If it is true, I hope the world becomes a safer place, though I do not assume anything concrete.

[Donnaj4962]

Let's continue our prayers for our troops. Who knows what the reaction will be like from the Taliban??!! As we all know, they are very unpredicatable.:(

[HoochsMommiee]

it is true we americans have had his body a week they had to do dental dna to confirm.. thank god he is dead

[dab_20]

Obama made his speech and he said he died today. Lieing to the US is only going to make everyone VERY angry. This isn't something to make up, especially with all the crap our country has been through the last ten years. I believe it.

Thank God. For all the lives lost since September 11. For all the young men and women (including my brother) who had to go and fight. Unfortunately, it probably won't change much.

[K9karen]

USA! USA! USA!

Don't know if the Taliaban will fall apart, but it sure will put a damper on things, imo.

Navy Seals ROCK! God Bless 'em!

Just heard that 2 Bin Laden couriers,an older son and a woman, used as a shield (!!!) were also killed in the operation.

[Lady's Human]

Just saw a comment from a "senior defense official" saying it was SEALS who got him......nice operational security, guys. The USN has just become a bigger target for terrorists.


UBL may be dead, but this could lead to his being portrayed as a martyr to the cause (highly likely), and he evidently hasn't had hands on leadership of AQ in its weakened state for quite some time.

Regardless who pulled the trigger, good work by the intel weenies. About time they got something right. :p

[blue]

Obama taking credit for Osama's demise, a pre campaign tactic? Interrupting Trumps show whatever it is, and the theatrical, what 45 minute wait? BS grandstanding. Congrats Libs, Obama is your War President.

I heard Monica Lewinski collected the DNA and that Osama,s head shot looks great.

















LH is right, BHO would have better off saying, "I ordered what against whom?", rather then trying to take credit. Obama doesnt have the backbone to withstand the potential backlash.

[Kirsten]

Just got up and saw the news... wow!


Saying he was killed earlier, US has his body and has done DNA testing.
Wonder what we had to compare to for that test?

Been wondering the same. Some family DNA, I guess...? :confused:


If it is true, I hope the world becomes a safer place, though I do not assume anything concrete.

As far as that goes, I'm sure there's already another one in chargen although it's probably a setback for Al Qaida for the time being. :rolleyes:

[blue]

Just got up and saw the news... wow!


Been wondering the same. Some family DNA, I guess...? :confused:

Are you near a USA base? Are the soldiers clogging the streets near you?

[Kirsten]

Are you near a USA base? Are the soldiers clogging the streets near you?

No.

[Kirsten]

I'm a bit confused to read that his body was already buried at sea. One would have thought that they would keep his body for further tests, or to prove that it's really him...

[Queen of Poop]

It's fabulous news. I hope it's true. I am afraid that this will now create a backlash by his followers though.

[pomtzu]

If it's true, then it's great, but I see a lot of things to make me skeptical.

DNA tests - I was under the impression that it took quite some time to get results - at least it does on everyone else!! :rolleyes:

How are they going to provide pics as proof if he was shot in the head??? Don't know that he would be too recognizable - and of course the general public (they want to know) will never see them.

He's already buried at sea??? What was the rush if he was just killed yesterday? Why the big hurry to get rid of the body???

Too much questionable info to convince me at this point. :eek:

And in the end if he really is dead, I wonder what his goons will plan in retaliation???? The terrorism does not die just because the "leader" dies. There are many more scheming to outdo him!!!

[Kirsten]

If it's true, then it's great, but I see a lot of things to make me skeptical.

DNA tests - I was under the impression that it took quite some time to get results - at least it does on everyone else!! :rolleyes:

How are they going to provide pics as proof if he was shot in the head??? Don't know that he would be too recognizable - and of course the general public (they want to know) will never see them.

He's already buried at sea??? What was the rush if he was just killed yesterday? Why the big hurry to get rid of the body???

Too much questionable info to convince me at this point. :eek:

And in the end if he really is dead, I wonder what his goons will plan in retaliation???? The terrorism does not die just because the "leader" dies. There are many more scheming to outdo him!!!



The way I understood the news this morning, they have only confirmed his death by facial ID at this point, and the results of the DNA tests are yet to be released. Don't know how long these things usually take...

As for the burial on sea: On German tv, they said that no country would have agreed to have the body within their borders, but I wonder why his remains haven't been brought to the US? Maybe it has something to do with the Muslime law that a body needs to be buried within 24 hours? Maybe this decision was made to show that there's no war against the Islam, only terrorism, as President Obama has said?

[NicoleLJ]

It's fabulous news. I hope it's true. I am afraid that this will now create a backlash by his followers though.

I fully agree with you Gayle. I wonder what the reaction will be or if someone worse will now step up to take his place. I too hope it is true though.

[wombat2u2004]

As for the burial on sea: On German tv, they said that no country would have agreed to have the body within their borders, but I wonder why his remains haven't been brought to the US? Maybe it has something to do with the Muslime law that a body needs to be buried within 24 hours? Maybe this decision was made to show that there's no war against the Islam, only terrorism, as President Obama has said?

I was just watching a bit of news about it, and they said that burying him at sea would stop those planning some sort of pilgramage to a martyrs gravesite.
Sounds to me like a good call.
If it was my decision, I'd have buried him with a pig.

[wombat2u2004]

I fully agree with you Gayle. I wonder what the reaction will be or if someone worse will now step up to take his place. I too hope it is true though.

I don't think it makes any difference. They use simply every opportunity that is presented to them already to kill and maim those in the western world.

[Marigold2]

I believe this is our way of say that our issue was with Osama and not all the people. This was the right thing to do. To still show respect for the Muslum people.
After all what country would have wanted Hitler buried on their shores.

Blue I am shocked and saddened that you would think this is a campaign ploy.
THIS IS ABOUT OUR CHILDREN DYING OVERSEAS. This is about 9/11. This is about Lockerbie. This is something that Bush tried to do and was not able to. When Saddam was killed it was all over the news.
When our ships were in the Indian Ocean it was all over the news. I know because my son was on one of those ships and I was watching the news and crying, thinking "oh God my Slacker is at war, please let him be safe"
I sat there weeping for all of our children and all our Navy moms.
Every major miltary event has been broadcast as it should be to get the American people informed.
Geez we just watched how much TV on the Royals. That was fun. This is world changing.
And as for them getting us back well again we killed Saddam and Hilter. So maybe you should be greatful for those young men who risked their lives to get the job done. They are heros. Brave, brave, brave, intelligent, well trained men. We should be cheering them. For they have made the world safer for all and we own them and we should be greatful to our President as well.

[dab_20]

I believe this is our way of say that our issue was with Osama and not all the people. This was the right thing to do. To still show respect for the Muslum people.
After all what country would have wanted Hitler buried on their shores.

Blue I am shocked and saddened that you would think this is a campaign ploy.
THIS IS ABOUT OUR CHILDREN DYING OVERSEAS. This is about 9/11. This is about Lockerbie. This is something that Bush tried to do and was not able to. When Saddam was killed it was all over the news.
When our ships were in the Indian Ocean it was all over the news. I know because my son was on one of those ships and I was watching the news and crying, thinking "oh God my Slacker is at war, please let him be safe"
I sat there weeping for all of our children and all our Navy moms.
Every major miltary event has been broadcast as it should be to get the American people informed.
Geez we just watched how much TV on the Royals. That was fun. This is world changing.
And as for them getting us back well again we killed Saddam and Hilter. So maybe you should be greatful for those young men who risked their lives to get the job done. They are heros. Brave, brave, brave, intelligent, well trained men. We should be cheering them. For they have made the world safer for all and we own them and we should be greatful to our President as well.

I very, very, VERY much agree.

[moosmom]

Amen Marigold!!!!! I couldn't have said it better. The only thing I worry about, as I'm sure MANY Americans are, is retaliation.

[Catty1]

Wow. Just - wow.

[Kirsten]

I was just watching a bit of news about it, and they said that burying him at sea would stop those planning some sort of pilgramage to a martyrs gravesite.


Yup, heard something similar on the news now. Spoke to someone this afternoon who has lived several years in a muslime country, and she said burying as muslime at sea was an insult to him because a muslime has to be buried with his head towards Mekka. She also said he didn't deserve any better.

[pomtzu]

As far as his burial at sea - I heard two reasons. One was because they didn't want a martyr's graveside for his followers to worship at, and the other was keeping in accordance with Muslim law and burying within 24 hours. Frankly, I don't think the U.S. could care less if this monster had a proper burial in accordance with any religious laws - they just wanted to be rid of him so that he wouldn't be taking up valuable real estate, and people wouldn't be able to weep at his grave. JMO of course.

And retaliation??? - of course - it's just a matter of how, what, where and when - and we already know why. We haven't heard the last of this "man" - as there are others that will carry on for him. :mad:

[Husky_mom]

I am not from USA.. but here´s my point of view.. (from what I´ve gathered)

I sincerely hope with all my heart it was him.. really.. but I´m also skeptical..
the burial at sea thing.. sure could be because of respect.. not aaaall his family was like him.. they also didn´t liked the way he was

why I´m skeptical is how fast everything was out and done with..

bad thing here.. and I hope I´m wrong.. is that when you cut off a head two more grow up.. just like that mythology monster.. but I really hope this gives the whole world a break.. not only USA is affected by his actions.. I believe it was worldwide...

even though I don´t live or have a say as to your president.. I never liked him.. to me had this something that just gave me bad feelings.. lol.. but anyway.. every president has done bad things.. usually trying to fix what others have left behind.. and not only saying this goes to Bush.. but way way back in the line.. it just keeps adding up..(i your country and in mine too)

one thing that bothered me the most is that he cut pay off the militaries.. I´ve read on sooooo many military wives fb friends.. how they got cut off.. so giving him (Obama) credit for this is soooo out of line IMO.. the FULL credit goes to the corps forces.. whichever it was.. not him.. and they ALL should have their paychecks WITH a raise.. these are the people giving their lives for you (directed to Obama) and your country and the worlds too (because we all get benefited too).. and you cut their pay.. :mad:

so no.. he doesn´t deserves to take credit for that.. and I do kind of see it as a reelection campaign... in the subtle way.. but it´s there..

I just hope everything will be over or at least calm and all the troops can take a break back home to their loved ones..

[lizbud]

Interesting article with updates. American forces succeded in spite
help (so called) from Pakistani secret police. This was a months long
effort and Osama was identified & his location verified long before Obama
gave the go ahead to attack & take him out.(kill him) Osama was shot
twice in the face.

Major kudos to our Special Forces.:)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-02/osama-bin-laden-dead-his-pakistan-protectors/?cid=hp:mainpromo6

[IRescue452]

While its good that justice has been done swiftly and a major terrorist idol and leader has been taken off the map, the excessive celebration is unnerving to me as are the people who wanted him alive or his head on a pike.

I believe we must be mindful not to let the immoral actions of others cause us, in turn, to commit such misdeeds. This is indeed how molevolence spreads its claws over humanity. For anybody who believes in any sort of judgement day, you'll certainly need a better excuse than "but everybody else was doing it" when you have to explain how you let yourself think of nothing but torture and vengence when you logically know it won't bring back the people this man has killed. Watching the celebrations sickens me as much as watching the acts that Bin Laden himself commited. Its time for people to rise above malevolence or I'll be holding a welcome sign if the end of the world does come.

[caseysmom]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32225081@N07/5678309793/

[Grace]

Re the burial at sea . . . . .


From Politico -


Osama Bin Laden’s body was buried at sea early Monday morning in an Islamic ceremony performed aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, a senior defense official said today.

The religious ceremony, performed by a military officer and translated into Arabic by a native speaker, occurred between 1:10 a.m. and 2 a.m. EDT in the North Arabian Sea, the official told reporters in a background briefing at the Pentagon.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54114.html#ixzz1LDkXwQg5


I have also read that President Bush (43) was called by President Obama before the event took place. Both Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rumsfeld have congratulated the President. And wonder of wonders, Mr. Trump did not have an attack of apoplexy. He said -

I want to personally congratulate President Obama and the men and women of the Armed Forces for a job well done.

I am so proud to see Americans standing shoulder to shoulder, waving the American flag in celebration of this great victory.

We should spend the next several days not debating party politics, but in remembrance of those who lost their lives on 9/11 and those currently fighting for our freedom.

God bless America!

[Freedom]

the excessive celebration is unnerving to me as are the people who wanted him alive or his head on a pike.

I agree.

I hesitated to post in this thread, and I haven't said this on FB. But I think it is sad that a country has to issue an "assassinate" order and carry it out. We are really no different from 2000 years ago. This is not one of the prouder moments in Civilization's development.

[pomtzu]

Tho I can't say that I'm the least bit sorry that this man is dead (if he really is), I do find it inappropriate to be celebrating and dancing in the streets. It reminds me of the videos I saw on 9/11 - of the bin Laden supporters - dancing and celebrating the terrible events of the day that transpired in the U.S. All I thought of when I saw those actions, was "how barbaric - how cold - how cruel and inhumane - and how can anyone celebrate mass death and destruction"??? Tho bin Laden did not deserve to walk with mankind, I don't feel a public display of joy and jubilation was called for. However, I did notice too, that most of the revelers last night were young people - many barely old enough when 9/11 took place, to know or understand what it was all about. As is typical of so many young people, they are quick to jump on a bandwagon without thinking first, but I suppose it's easy to get caught up "in the moment".

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I just hope no fish who may snack on him get sick!!! He's done enough harm. :eek: :love:

[lizbud]

I just hope no fish who may snack on him get sick!!! He's done enough harm. :eek: :love:


LOL I had the same thought.:D Don't want to poison the fishies.:)

[lizbud]

I agree.

I hesitated to post in this thread, and I haven't said this on FB. But I think it is sad that a country has to issue an "assassinate" order and carry it out. We are really no different from 2000 years ago. This is not one of the prouder moments in Civilization's development.


and I am really sad that 3000 innocent civilians were burned to death in
the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001. That those people left behind innocent children and families forever changed by some evil man's scheme.

[dab_20]

However, I did notice too, that most of the revelers last night were young people - many barely old enough when 9/11 took place, to know or understand what it was all about. As is typical of so many young people, they are quick to jump on a bandwagon without thinking first, but I suppose it's easy to get caught up "in the moment".

Though many young people on September 11 may not have understood what happened, we certainly understand the impact of it as we aged. And many young people were very much affected by what happened on 9/11. I may have been 9 years old at the time, but I knew the pain of seeing my brother go to Iraq and Afghanistan several times. And because of that I learned of the events of 9/11 and what it meant.

I don't mean to be defensive because I'm young. But most people my age certainly understand the events of 9/11 now, because we are no longer children.


Although I'm not out cheering and celebrating on the streets, I am certainly thankful that this man is dead. And I'm thankful for our wonderful troops who go out everyday and risk their lives, even when they didn't agree with why they were over there.

[pomtzu]

Though many young people on September 11 may not have understood what happened, we certainly understand the impact of it as we aged. And many young people were very much affected by what happened on 9/11. I may have been 9 years old at the time, but I knew the pain of seeing my brother go to Iraq and Afghanistan several times. And because of that I learned of the events of 9/11 and what it meant.

I don't mean to be defensive because I'm young. But most people my age certainly understand the events of 9/11 now, because we are no longer children.


Although I'm not out cheering and celebrating on the streets, I am certainly thankful that this man is dead. And I'm thankful for our wonderful troops who go out everyday and risk their lives, even when they didn't agree with why they were over there.


I certainly wasn't painting all young people with the same brush, but my point was that it's the young people who sometimes jump in with both feet before testing the water, and maybe don't really think first.
Yes - I'm glad he is dead too as I previously stated - but I wouldn't be out cheering and dancing in the streets celebrating. Sorry if I upset you or anyone else, as I too know how many have given their lives to protect this country from the evils of the likes of anyone like bin Laden. The young people of our country are spirited and demonstrative as they always have been (I was in my early 20's in the Viet Nam era protests so I remember quite well) - however - outwardly celebrating anyone's death for any reason is distasteful to me.

[RICHARD]

There once was a terrorist named Osama
Who ruined the world with his drama
It soon came to pass
Navy Seals kicked his (rear)
And that's made up for our trauma.

[Alysser]

I am just amazed at the utterly ridiculous accusations and things said about President Obama. I am not a major fan of him either, but really some people just take things way too far. Not only people on the internet, but people at school and everywhere else as well. You know, I can understand not being a fan of him, and I can understand you don't support his views. I watched the 9 minute and 27 second speech and not once did he take all the credit for this. This isn't "just a re-election ploy", it's justice for thousands killed and that is not only the victims of 9/11. Call him a lame duck president, call him an idiot, call him arrogant, call him whatever you want but it's just downright disrespectful to say he is using this for his own personal gain. He has shown he is a very decent man. It's not only disrespectful to him, but it's disrespectful to soldiers(alive, dead, wounded, etc) and their families who mourn their loses and support them. Regardless of what you think of him as a president, don't treat him like he's a complete @$$hole who has no human decency.

I can't even tell you some of the idiotic, ignorant things I heard at school today. :mad: Marigold, I couldn't have said it better myself.

As for the death, well, I guess I'm indifferent. I feel like there will never be enough justice done for what this man did to millions of people. I guess it could be some closure, but really I'm just indifferent. I question whether it was worth everything we put into it. But I see many people on the news happy about the death, so that in turn makes me happy. I just hope it helps some people. I am glad we are rid of this evil, but there are still many more out there and hopefully one day we will overcome all of them. For now, at least this small battle is over.

As for being young on 9/11, I was in third grade. It effected my family very deeply. Especially my parents. My Dad was on a plane that day, and we didn't hear from him till that night. I'm sure my mom knew it wasn't his plane, but in the panic of it all, she later told me she just sat and cried and thought he was dead. They didn't say what flight it was, because they didn't know at first. He later said he passed the towers that morning and it was just and unbelievable feeling. My brother went to war in 2004. I will never forget the feelings I had. Everytime we heard of soldiers dying it just tore us all up. I was very young, but I knew the basic idea of war. He was in that hell for 14 months. He never talks about it, no one brings it up. I remember when my Dad asked him something about it, he started crying once. I don't know exactly what he asked him, but it isn't something he wanted to bring up. I still don't know everything about 9/11 or fully understand it, but I don't believe anyone truly does. That is a rare form of evil, and I don't think anyone fully can grasp it. I know the basics about it, but I do know how it effect my family and I know it effected more so much worse.

[Lady's Human]

US Forces didn't kill Herr Schickelgruber, he was found dead in the bunker by the Russians.

US Forces shot down the plane carrying Yamamoto, but no one knew until well after the fact.

US Forces did not kill Saddam. He was hung by the Iraqi people following a trial in accordance with their law.

To broadcast that UBL is dead is fine.

To broadcast that UBL was killed by XXX unit of the US XXX forces? All that does is put targets on the backs of the people in those units. Bad operational security, particularly when those forces are still engaged in combat. The "Senior Defense Department Official" just committed a security breach, and he/she knows it.

[Shelteez2]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"

~~Martin Luther King Jr.

[Roxyluvsme13]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"

~~Martin Luther King Jr.
Very well quoted.

I was in fourth grade when 9-11 occurred, and I most likely didn't understand the full impact of the situation until I grew older. Yes, my generation is probably the ones celebrating and not within full comprehension of the situation, but not all of us are as misunderstood about it now.

There were cheers of "USA!" outside my window into the wee hours of the morning last night. Gotta love the college attitude...

[Marigold2]

US Forces didn't kill Herr Schickelgruber, he was found dead in the bunker by the Russians. He was trapped in the bunker and took his own life before he could be killed/ arrested.

US Forces shot down the plane carrying Yamamoto, but no one knew until well after the fact.

US Forces did not kill Saddam. He was hung by the Iraqi people following a trial in accordance with their law. It was our soldiers who tracked him down.

To broadcast that UBL is dead is fine.

To broadcast that UBL was killed by XXX unit of the US XXX forces? All that does is put targets on the backs of the people in those units. Bad operational security, particularly when those forces are still engaged in combat. The "Senior Defense Department Official" just committed a security breach, and he/she knows it. I don't think so. Looks like they know what they are doing and did it well.
Why so negitive? Why not give credit to the President for a job well done with his advisers, something Bush could not get done. And he tried.
Why not give credit to our brave soldiers who risked their lives to get the job done? Our boys did a great job, a great job. How proud the families must be of these soldiers how proud and relieved that they are safe and made the world a safer place.
I was so proud of my son when he was in the Middle East twice protecting us. Proud and scared. When his ship bombed Saddam in the Indian Ocean and after 9/11 when his ship was the first one there to protrol and now it is his ship again which I believe carried the body.
I was on that ship and I saw the kids, yes kids, 18 and 19 year old girls and boys God they were so young to have to do this, so young to have so much responsiblity on their shoulders. Going out to sea for 6 months to protect and serve. Not knowing when they could contact their families, not knowing how long they really would be there since things had turned ugly. They were just so young.
But they all risked their lives for us. For you and me and everyone here to be safe.
Lets just be happy that our men are safe and got the job done. They can go home to their families. That is what counts.

[Lady's Human]

SpecOps people know full well when they battle to get the jobs that they have that they will gain little if any notoriety for what they're doing. That's not why they do it.

By broadcasting who did it, if someone gets an Alpha roster for that unit, you've given the terrorists new targets, including the family members of the troops on the raid.

The whole announcement is bad news, because they have revealed methods and sources to the open media, and given the next leader a lesson in how not to get caught.

It should have been a simple statement that UBL has been killed, we have confirmation, and for operational reasons we will not be releasing specifics on how the mission was accomplished.

[Freedom]

It should have been a simple statement that UBL has been killed, we have confirmation, and for operational reasons we will not be releasing specifics on how the mission was accomplished.

I agree.

[Marigold2]

SpecOps people know full well when they battle to get the jobs that they have that they will gain little if any notoriety for what they're doing. That's not why they do it.

By broadcasting who did it, if someone gets an Alpha roster for that unit, you've given the terrorists new targets, including the family members of the troops on the raid.

The whole announcement is bad news, because they have revealed methods and sources to the open media, and given the next leader a lesson in how not to get caught.

It should have been a simple statement that UBL has been killed, we have confirmation, and for operational reasons we will not be releasing specifics on how the mission was accomplished.
Well that is all good. However we already have Rush and how many others questioning if he is really dead or if this was a political ploy by the Obama team for future votes.
American people have a right to know certain facts. The military have a right to keep certain facts hidden for all of our safety and the media is bound and determined to get the low down no matter what the cost. And then there are those who say that we never landed on the moon, Elvis is alive and well and living somewhere in the world still eating banana and peanut butter sandwiches and that Jimmy Morrison lives in Paris. And lets not forget those same people think that Rush is a genius.
Enough............... The monster is dead. We have wise people here that tell us not to rejoice lest we look as demented as those that rejoice over our deaths overseas.
I would like to just end with a prayer that our military children remain safe and come home sound.

[Lady's Human]

Well that is all good. However we already have Rush and how many others questioning if he is really dead or if this was a political ploy by the Obama team for future votes.
American people have a right to know certain facts. The military have a right to keep certain facts hidden for all of our safety and the media is bound and determined to get the low down no matter what the cost. And then there are those who say that we never landed on the moon, Elvis is alive and well and living somewhere in the world still eating banana and peanut butter sandwiches and that Jimmy Morrison lives in Paris. And lets not forget those same people think that Rush is a genius.
Enough............... The monster is dead. We have wise people here that tell us not to rejoice lest we look as demented as those that rejoice over our deaths overseas.
I would like to just end with a prayer that our military children remain safe and come home sound.


Wow.....judgmental much?

So, debunking the story for people who doubt it is worth the safety of those who conducted the raid and their families' safety, and burning the technical means used to gather the information is worth it?

It's amazing.

[wombat2u2004]

I just hope no fish who may snack on him get sick!!! He's done enough harm. :eek: :love:

POLLUTION. Even the Navy is guilty. :D

[blue]

something Bush could not get done.

Correction, something Bush could not have finished, as he could not have been re elected. This started 4 years ago, not last August.

[kitten645]

Haters will always be haters and there will always be those that never feel that anything was done to their specifications. I choose my own ability to respond. I respect the lives lost on 9/11. I respect my President for obtaining justice for that act. I respect the operatives that accomplished this mission and suspect they would like acknowledgedment for a job well done. There will always be those that don't believe what is sanely proven. Nothing can be said or done to change that. It is what it is and I chose to move on and leave them to wallow in the negative. Nothing I can say can help or change an opinion. Opinions are like as***les, eveyone has one. Some are full of sh**.

[Lady's Human]

Just because you use the little ****** in your posts doesn't make it acceptable use of language.

[Bonny]

something Bush could not get done.

Correction, something Bush could not have finished, as he could not have been re elected. This started 4 years ago, not last August.[/QUOTE]

Can't all this be traced back to President Clinton when he was in office? He threatened to do something but didn't with al Qaeda? It all goes back to 1988 sometime when the group was coming into power. So this has been a long haul.

[sparks19]

lets be clear on one thing......

NONE of the presidents DID this. NONE of the presidents found him or didn't find him.

The intel found him... the guys out there fighting caught him. The presidents just say yes or no... but they are not the ones that should get credit for it.

[lizbud]

lets be clear on one thing......

NONE of the presidents DID this. NONE of the presidents found him or didn't find him.

The intel found him... the guys out there fighting caught him. The presidents just say yes or no... but they are not the ones that should get credit for it.


Interesting opinion but not realistic. The Ops team would never have gone if the President (any President) had not made the decision to send them into harms way. So yeah, he or she, deserves some of the credit.

[Husky_mom]

so sending them into harms way.. cutting off their pays.. "letting" them get him and take the part of the credit to himself.. sorry.. but that´s just not fair to me.. to them..

these people, sent or not by him, are putting their own lives at stake only for him to take credit.. ok.. take credit.. but don´t treat them like that.. (shutting down their paychecks).. they deserve better..

and this I KNOW first hand from military wives who were struggling as they had no money due to this situation..

and I know this because in my own country men and women who risk their lives for justice are way underpaid..

[Grace]

so sending them into harms way.. cutting off their pays.. "letting" them get him and take the part of the credit to himself.. sorry.. but that´s just not fair to me.. to them..

these people, sent or not by him, are putting their own lives at stake only for him to take credit.. ok.. take credit.. but don´t treat them like that.. (shutting down their paychecks).. they deserve better..

and this I KNOW first hand from military wives who were struggling as they had no money due to this situation..

and I know this because in my own country men and women who risk their lives for justice are way underpaid..

Sorry to disappoint you, but it was the Republican majority in the House of Representatives that was threatening to shut down the Government - thus not pay our servicemen and women.

[Husky_mom]

Sorry to disappoint you, but it was the Republican majority in the House of Representatives that was threatening to shut down the Government - thus not pay our servicemen and women.

I know but still who approves.. and I´m not dissapointed.. and as far as I´ve heard directly from military families.. the "threat" was to cut pay.. then they reinstated it but not all.. and had some sort of "catch".. I´ll have to retrieve the info.. but a few posted it.. and when asked that "but it was supposed to be off (the cut)" they responden.. "that´s what got to the public.. but not to us.." and then posted the whole sitiuation.. (let me find it)

[caseysmom]

I know lots of military folks and have not heard that Obama has cut their pay.

[Lady's Human]

The President cannot cut their pay, he has no Constitutional authority to do so.

Military pay is a budget item, which is firmly in Congress's court. Besides, the whole budget issue was a tempest in a teacup, been there once the last time the children couldn't decide.

The idiocy about the budget is the fault of both parties, as Congress should have had a FY 2011 budget done before the last elections, but didn't want to accomplish their most basic function.

[caseysmom]

The President cannot cut their pay, he has no Constitutional authority to do so.

Military pay is a budget item, which is firmly in Congress's court. Besides, the whole budget issue was a tempest in a teacup, been there once the last time the children couldn't decide.

The idiocy about the budget is the fault of both parties, as Congress should have had a FY 2011 budget done before the last elections, but didn't want to accomplish their most basic function.

Don't confuse us with the facts! Obviously some folks want to blame Obama whether its justified or not.

[Marigold2]

If this mission would have gone wrong. Our President would have never lived it down. Fox, Rush, Beck, Trump would all have had plenty to say and would have blamed him for the whole thing. I mean really who are we kidding? He is the leader, the President, the head honcho. The big gun, the man in charge.
Those right wing blow hards can hardly give him credit now.
When Carter back in 1980 sent helicopters to rescue to the US hostages from the US embassey in Iran they failed. (Below is the story.) It cost Jimmy Carter the election and he never recovered the respect of the American people.
As far as what we are being told. We are being told just enough to hopefully shut that fool Trump up.

The Iran hostage crisis was a diplomatic (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Diplomacy) crisis between Iran (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Iran) and the United States (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/United_States). Fifty-two US citizens were held hostage for 444 days from November 4, 1979 to January 20, 1981, after a group of Islamic (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Islamism) students and militants took over the Embassy of the United States in support of the Iranian Revolution (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Iranian_Revolution).[1] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-0)
Sixty-six Americans were taken captive when Iranian militants seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran on November 4, 1979, including three who were at the Iranian Foreign Ministry. Six more Americans escaped and of the 66 who were taken hostage, 13 were released on November 19 and 20, 1979; one was released on July 11, 1980. The remaining 52 were released on January 20, 1981, at the very moment that Ronald Reagan (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) had completed his inaugural address (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/First_inauguration_of_Ronald_Reagan) after having been sworn in as President of the United States (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/President_of_the_United_States) to replace Jimmy Carter (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Jimmy_Carter).[2] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-Weisman_A1-1)
The episode reached a climax when, after failed attempts to negotiate a release, the United States military attempted a rescue operation, Operation Eagle Claw (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw), on April 24, 1980, which resulted in a failed mission, the destruction of two aircraft and the deaths of eight American servicemen and one Iranian civilian. It ended with the signing of the Algiers Accords (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Algiers_Accords) in Algeria (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Algeria) on January 19, 1981. The hostages were formally released into United States custody the following day, just minutes after the new American president Ronald Reagan (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) was sworn in.
The crisis has been described as an entanglement of "vengeance and mutual incomprehension".[3] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-TIMEordeal-2) In Iran, despite freezing of all Iranian assets held in the United States (Executive Order 12170), the hostage taking was widely seen as a blow against the U.S, and its influence in Iran, its perceived attempts to undermine the Iranian Revolution, and its long-standing support of the recently overthrown government of the Shah (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Shah) of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi). The Shah had been restored to power in a 1953 coup against a democratically-elected nationalist Iranian government (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) that had been attempting to unconstitutionally remove the Shah. The coup was organized by the CIA (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) and MI6 (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Secret_Intelligence_Service) at the American embassy.[4] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-3) At the time of hostage-taking, the Shah had recently been allowed into the United States for medical treatment. In the United States, the hostage-taking was seen as an outrage violating a centuries-old principle of international law granting diplomats immunity from arrest (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity) and diplomatic compounds sovereignty (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Sovereignty) in their embassies.[5] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-ReferenceA-4)
The crisis has also been described as the "pivotal episode" in the history of Iran – United States relations (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Iran_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations).[6] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-5) In the U.S., some political analysts believe the crisis was a major reason for U.S. President (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/President_of_the_United_States) Jimmy Carter (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Jimmy_Carter)'s defeat in the November 1980 presidential election (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1980).[7] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-6) In Iran, the crisis strengthened the prestige of the Ayatollah Khomeini (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/Ayatollah_Khomeini) and the political power of those who supported theocracy and opposed any normalization of relations with the West.[8] (http://petoftheday.com/talk/#cite_note-7) The crisis also marked the beginning of U.S. legal action, or economic sanctions against Iran (http://petoftheday.com/wiki/U.S._sanctions_against_Iran), that further weakened economic ties between Iran and the United

[Lady's Human]

There's no comparison between Desert One and the raid to kill UBL. Pres. Carter took heat for Desert one in large part because the mission was almost a planned failure from the start, but he had to look like he was doing something, after failing to do anything to get the situation under control.

[wombat2u2004]

so sending them into harms way.. cutting off their pays.. "letting" them get him and take the part of the credit to himself.. sorry.. but that´s just not fair to me.. to them..

these people, sent or not by him, are putting their own lives at stake only for him to take credit.. ok.. take credit.. but don´t treat them like that.. (shutting down their paychecks).. they deserve better..

and this I KNOW first hand from military wives who were struggling as they had no money due to this situation..

and I know this because in my own country men and women who risk their lives for justice are way underpaid..

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

It's always been the same Isabel ;)

[wombat2u2004]

The final words ??? We will never know :p

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae186/wombat2u2004/Osama.jpg

"See? This is why I normally do not answer the door."

"Ha! They couldn't hit a camel at that dist..........."

"I should have married a bigger woman"

"You will never take me al........."

"Wife No.3, you feed the kids, I will feed the fish"

"This Neighborhood Watch program sucks"

"My fate is Sealed"

"What the....where did all these guys come from?"

"I need a room full of Seals like I need a hole in my head."

[dab_20]

Don't confuse us with the facts! Obviously some folks want to blame Obama whether its justified or not.

I agree. I'm not saying I'm a fan of Obama, but I don't not like him either. I'm just not educated enough about him to say whether or not I support him.

However, I think much of our country says they don't like Obama simply because everyone else says it, for everyone else's reasoning. People tend to forget we are not a dictatorship, the president doesn't control EVERYTHING. So he is not to blame for EVERYTHING. If you have a problem with the way our government is run, maybe you should look at the other majority that runs our country- congress.

Seriously, everyone is going to hate whatever president we have until things get better. If you don't like him for a solidified reason, then that is fine. But don't go and say you don't like him simply because that's what everyone else does.
(and this isn't to anyone specific on PT, I'm just tired of hearing it at school and no one can give me real facts for why they don't like the president)

[lizbud]

It has been decided not to release the pictures of Osama's body.
I am so glad. I think this is a wise decision. As Obama said, "no good
would come of it".

[pomtzu]

It has been decided not to release the pictures of Osama's body.
I am so glad. I think this is a wise decision. As Obama said, "no good
would come of it".

I didn't think for a minute, that he would. What would be the purpose?? The people that want to see them as proof, would still say that they aren't authentic. Kind of like all of those that think that 9/11 was a conspiracy and in spite of pictures, try to prove that the facts are fictitious.

[Marigold2]

How about just excepting the true facts and giving our President and his team, including our brave soldiers credit for a job well done?
Bush had his chance and he didn't get him.
How about being fair? How about turning off Fox news long enough to get the facts?

There's no comparison between Desert One and the raid to kill UBL. Pres. Carter took heat for Desert one in large part because the mission was almost a planned failure from the start, but he had to look like he was doing something, after failing to do anything to get the situation under control.

[Lady's Human]

How about just excepting the true facts and giving our President and his team, including our brave soldiers credit for a job well done?
Bush had his chance and he didn't get him.
How about being fair? How about turning off Fox news long enough to get the facts?

Methinks thou needs to be a touch more careful with your overly broad brush.

There are many news sources bookmarked on this computer, none of them are Fox news.

The sailors who completed the mission deserve their secrecy (the spec ops community lives and DIES by secrecy), and that has unfortunately been blown by the bungling of the executive branch.

The intel weenies who worked on the technical means of intelligence deserve credit, and should be able to use their means again, but that means has now been blown, as it has been announced to the world how the mission was accomplished. Al Quaeda won't make those same mistakes again, so they have to develop new means to track intel.

There was no need to announce what other intelligence was gathered at the site.

As to the comment about the former President, I don't recall saying anything about him or his administration. Are you still that hung up on the former President that you think every criticism of President Obama is a defense of President Bush?

[wombat2u2004]

Bush had his chance and he didn't get him.

Nah uh. Bush had nothing to do with "not getting him". Bush was constantly on the back of the CIA to bring home the bacon, right up until his term finished. The CIA never came good at that time. ;)

[moosmom]

SPEED to hell, you piece of garbage!!!! (I'd say God Speed but that would be disrespectful to our Lord)

Do I think they should post pictures of his dead, mutilated body????Hell yeah!!! We need closure. Now let's bring out men and women home safely.

[wombat2u2004]

SPEED to hell, you piece of garbage!!!! (I'd say God Speed but that would be disrespectful to our Lord)

Do I think they should post pictures of his dead, mutilated body????Hell yeah!!! We need closure. Now let's bring out men and women home safely.

Don't be like that Donna, it's not nice.
He really did value life you know. As evidenced by the fact that he tried to hide behind one of his wives. ;)

[pomtzu]

Don't be like that Donna, it's not nice.
He really did value life you know. As evidenced by the fact that he tried to hide behind one of his wives. ;)

Now let's be fair - something that lowlife knew nothing about tho.

I heard it reported that it was his wife that took it upon herself to step in front of him to try to shield him. Who really knows tho, besides the ones that were in that room......:(

[RICHARD]

Saying he was killed earlier, US has his body and has done DNA testing.
Wonder what we had to compare to for that test? :confused:

OBL was on the Jerry Springer show earlier this year when on of his wives accused him of cheating. He gave the DNA sample then.

----------------------------------

While not a huge fan of politics? I find the 'blame game' as to who should get credit/no credit for OBL's demise to be rather entertaining. Apparently the pundits have assured that this is a huge 'win' for BO and makes him a shoo in for the presidency in '12.

Hog poop.

While I do care about that son of a gun (OBL) getting his proper due? what about the jobless rate in the country? Government spending? Budget woes and all the OTHER problems here in the country? I think that after the Ding Dong Osama's Dead high wears off, the political landscape and the general unease of the population regarding the WHOLE political/economic will go back to being what it was before May 1.

[wombat2u2004]

Now let's be fair - something that lowlife knew nothing about tho.

I heard it reported that it was his wife that took it upon herself to step in front of him to try to shield him. Who really knows tho, besides the ones that were in that room......:(

Hmmmm...I heard he actually stepped behind wife number.....errr....not sure, but it must be somewhere between 1 and 20.
That's what I heard and I'm sticking to it. :p:p

[cassiesmom]

It has been decided not to release the pictures of Osama's body.
I am so glad. I think this is a wise decision. As Obama said, "no good
would come of it".

I think this is a wise decision, too. Potentially more harm might have come from it.


Saying he was killed earlier, US has his body and has done DNA testing.
Wonder what we had to compare to for that test? :confused:

I heard on news radio that bin Laden's sister had been treated for cancer in the U.S. and the government was able to get a sample of her brain tissue for DNA comparison.

[Bonny]

Growing up with the threat of Communism & Nikita Kruschev threatening to bury us was a very real thing back in the 1950's & 1960's with the cold war is what they called it. If was a relief when the Berlin Wall finally fell. That is what I got to grow up with at the time the threat of Nuclear bombs & the threat of Nuclear War.

I can see why youth & adults celebrated the death of bin laden. It is a weight off of their shoulders. A good 23 years of al Qaeda terrorizing the world has been enough.

[pomtzu]

I can see why youth & adults celebrated the death of bin laden. It is a weight off of their shoulders. A good 23 years of al Qaeda terrorizing the world has been enough.


Do you really think it's over and done with??? IMO - not a chance. :mad: Just because one man has been eliminated, doesn't eliminate the problem.

[Bonny]

Do you really think it's over and done with??? IMO - not a chance. :mad: Just because one man has been eliminated, doesn't eliminate the problem.

Well it is a darn good start! You can run but you can not hide because eventually you will get caught up with.

We can only hope that any other Binny's out there will think twice before they act.

[pomtzu]

Well it is a darn good start! You can run but you can not hide because eventually you will get caught up with.

We can only hope that any other Binny's out there will think twice before they act.

You can cut off the head of the snake, but it will live - for a while anyway. There are many more of his wannabe honchos out there, ready and willing to carry on in his name and for his "cause". And they will act, as they have no regard for life - even their own. I think it will be a long time before they can be stopped.

[blue]

Bush had his chance and he didn't get him.

Bush didnt have a chance, he was out of office while they where still gathering intel. Bush also would not have taken credit for a successful operation and would have kept the specifics from the public for the safety of the military members and their families.

Obama is putting his ego ahead of the safety of others.

[Karen]

Bush didnt have a chance, he was out of office while they where still gathering intel. Bush also would not have taken credit for a successful operation and would have kept the specifics from the public for the safety of the military members and their families.

You're kidding, right? Mr. Mission Accomplished televised from an aircraft carrier? He "took credit" for finishing a war that still isn't even finished today!

[cassiesmom]

There are many more of his wannabe honchos out there, ready and willing to carry on in his name and for his "cause". And they will act, as they have no regard for life - even their own. I think it will be a long time before they can be stopped.


This is what scares me. I wonder if al Qaida will ever be completely stopped.

I also heard that the government of Pakistan was not notified in advance that this would be taking place and some people who live in the area felt that the U.S. forces involved should not have done what they did in a country that was not their own.

[blue]

You're kidding, right? Mr. Mission Accomplished televised from an aircraft carrier? He "took credit" for finishing a war that still isn't even finished today!

No Im not kidding. Bush didnt take credit for anything.

[Lady's Human]

You're kidding, right? Mr. Mission Accomplished televised from an aircraft carrier? He "took credit" for finishing a war that still isn't even finished today!

The "Mission Accomplished" banner had nothing to do with claiming that the war in Iraq was over. It was stating that major ground combat had ended with the removal of Saddam Hussein's government from power.

Trust me, we were still training troops at the time, and the emphasis in training was shifting from conventional to unconventional warfare.

Was the banner a mistake? Probably, but the Abraham Lincoln's mission had, in fact, been accomplished.

I really have no cares one way or another whether President Obama "takes credit" for the actions of the military or not. What I care about is the horrendous breaches in operational security which have occurred at the hands of politicians rushing to make political hay out of the operation.

[Karen]

I really have no cares one way or another whether President Obama "takes credit" for the actions of the military or not. What I care about is the horrendous breaches in operational security which have occurred at the hands of politicians rushing to make political hay out of the operation.

Yeah, but sadly, I think that's another impact of the current 24/7 news hype cycle. Anything happens and it is discussed in minute detail ad nauseum - consequences be darned. I, for one, could do without most of what comes out of the major news stations, and the obsessive nature of talk radio and TV hosts. This is fed by politicians believing that any press mention means votes, and makes many telegenic "sound bite" generators much more famous than they have any right to be.

[wombat2u2004]

I also heard that the government of Pakistan was not notified in advance that this would be taking place and some people who live in the area felt that the U.S. forces involved should not have done what they did in a country that was not their own.

Fair enough. If that's the way they feel then they can put their hand out for foreign aid from some other country, and the next time there is a flood and all of their little straw houses get washed away, they can ask for money from somewhere else.

[wombat2u2004]

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae186/wombat2u2004/new_product.jpg

[pomtzu]

Fair enough. If that's the way they feel then they can put their hand out for foreign aid from some other country, and the next time there is a flood and all of their little straw houses get washed away, they can ask for money from somewhere else.

You got it mate!!!! That's exactly what I think. How many billions of $$$ in aid does the U.S. provide to Pakistan???? - and now we're on the top of their doo-doo list! How about spreading some of that money around at home first - to our own people that need aid. I still believe in the old saying that "charity begins at home"!

[kokopup]

Our Giving to Pakistan goes way back. I was a part of a task force back in the late 50's/early 60's where the US government had given Pakistan several of our older destroyers. We were there to train them on those ships so they could defend themselves from the ENEMY OY THE DAY. I was aboard a Carrier so I wasn't directly involved with the actial training. I was just there trapped in Hell (Karachi) for a very long time. It may not be common knowledge that most of the piping for everything onboard ships is made of brass. In the months I was there the ships finally were not sea worthy because the Pakistani's had stripped the ship of all piping, including those necessary to run their engines. Those ships became floating blobs. I'm sure any aid sent there today, 50 years later, is still going down the same rat hole.

[pomtzu]

Our Giving to Pakistan goes way back. I was a part of a task force back in the late 50's/early 60's where the US government had given Pakistan several of our older destroyers. We were there to train them on those ships so they could defend themselves from the ENEMY OY THE DAY. I was aboard a Carrier so I wasn't directly involved with the actial training. I was just there trapped in Hell (Karachi) for a very long time. It may not be common knowledge that most of the piping for everything onboard ships is made of brass. In the months I was there the ships finally were not sea worthy because the Pakistani's had stripped the ship of all piping, including those necessary to run their engines. Those ships became floating blobs. I'm sure any aid sent there today, 50 years later, is still going down the same rat hole.

Okay - I'm not the sharpest when it comes to politics and government, but how do we do what we (U.S.) do?? Our own government is working in the red - a big deficit - so how can we provide any aid to anybody when we don't have it to give???? The U.S. wants to cut funding for projects and programs here in our own country to help "balance the budget", and at the expense of deserving people and programs, but the handouts continue to everybody and his brother outside of the country. There is the on-going aid (such as to Pakistan), and the emergency aid to countries that fall victim to natural disasters such as tsunamis, earthquakes, and the like. If we don't have - how can we give? Maybe there's someone a lot wiser than I am that can explain it to me,, cause I don't get it!!! :mad:

[Lady's Human]

Let's put the total foreign aid budget in perspective:

It was roughly $32 billion last year.

Much of that comes back to the US through the countries spending it on materials from US corporations, especially the foreign military aid.

While Pakistan is an arguably undeserving recipient of US foreign aid, they receive a pittance compared to others (and I doubt they're going to get much down the road). Without what foreign aid they are given, chances are we wouldn't be able to resupply troops in Afghanistan without invading another impossible country, and UBL would still be alive, as they would have had no reason to allow us to operate anywhere near their boarders.

The deficit for FY 2010 was $1.2 trillion dollars. That foreign aid is a drop in the bucket.

[pomtzu]

Let's put the total foreign aid budget in perspective:

It was roughly $32 billion last year.

Much of that comes back to the US through the countries spending it on materials from US corporations, especially the foreign military aid.

While Pakistan is an arguably undeserving recipient of US foreign aid, they receive a pittance compared to others (and I doubt they're going to get much down the road). Without what foreign aid they are given, chances are we wouldn't be able to resupply troops in Afghanistan without invading another impossible country, and UBL would still be alive, as they would have had no reason to allow us to operate anywhere near their boarders.

The deficit for FY 2010 was $1.2 trillion dollars. That foreign aid is a drop in the bucket.

But we're still spending money that we don't have - right??? - be it at home or abroad. Wish I knew how to do that - other than with a credit card - which has to be paid back. :eek:

[Lady's Human]

No one wants their pet project cut.

No one wants to touch Medicaid and Medicare.

No one wants to touch Social Security.

Discretionary and defense spending only account for 39% of the budget. That leaves 61% of the budget as sacred cows. Time to slaughter a few. We're beyond the point of being able to please everyone.

[lizbud]

There's no need to slash funds from SS and Medicare. If anything
needs triming back they can start with foreign aid. Did you know we give
aid to adout 153 countries? Current figures are hard to come by as they
are not published every year. Here's just a hint at some past figures.


http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/

[Karen]

I think if everything gets looked at, there are likely many people's "pet projects" that could get cut without causing hardship anywhere but that one district or state. Let a politician or two take it on the chin for once, and take some responsibility for the overall deficit.

[Marigold2]

There is so much we don't know about foreign aid, finance, the stock market what goes on behind closed doors at government meetings.
We all live on this one planet. And what effects one country will effect others.
Yes we give a lot of foreign aid. But being poor in America is different then being poor in other parts of the world.
Being poor in America means you might have to take the bus, rent instead of own a home, shop at Goodwill or Walmart for most things.
It most likely means you are recieving food stamps, Medicaid for Wellcare, Caresource, Buckeye or another insurance.
You get cheaper housing, you might get you gas or electric paid for, you have dental insurance and eye insurance for free. Not all but many poor have these programs.
Being poor in India or Pakistian means not having clean water, not having shoes, a toothbush, cloths, a bowl, a glass. Not having a bed or medicine for vaccines for kids. It means no heat, no electic. No nothing. Maybe you have one blanket to share with three peope. You might never have a pair of shoes in your life time. Watching your child or your brothers and sisters starving to death. That is poor.
Their poor and our poor and a world apart.
Many days MANY when I am tired or sore and I get in the shower I thank God for that shower. I think it just goes back to my mom and her time in the concentration camp but I know that I am TRULY BLESSED, for how many millions of people have never had the simple joy of a warm shower?
I remember my mom thanking God for the food, just simple food, for she remembered a time when she starved and saw others die from lack of food.
A warm shower. Just think of what a blessing that would be to a poor women who has just given birth to have a warm shower, or a man, comimg home dirty and tired how has never bathed in his life or a child just to be clean and go to bed on something soft and comfy and cozy.
Anyway...............

[Lady's Human]

There's no need to slash funds from SS and Medicare. If anything
needs triming back they can start with foreign aid. Did you know we give
aid to adout 153 countries? Current figures are hard to come by as they
are not published every year. Here's just a hint at some past figures.


http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/

Liz, look at my post above. Our foreign aid budget is about $32 Billion.

Our deficit for FY 2010 is 1.2 TRILLION.

We could eliminate foreign aid entirely and not even touch the deficit, never mind the debt.

[lizbud]

Liz, look at my post above. Our foreign aid budget is about $32 Billion.

Our deficit for FY 2010 is 1.2 TRILLION.

We could eliminate foreign aid entirely and not even touch the deficit, never mind the debt.


I never said it would eliminate the deficit, it is just a good place as any
to START to cut down on spending. Next place we could look is the huge
subsidies given to American "farmers', Oil Companies,,Energy industries,etc,etc.

[Lady's Human]

Okay, so now we're up to 50 billion..........

The Deficit is NOT going to get fixed without doing something about SS, Medicaid and Medicare.

It's simple math, guys, you can't leave 61% of the budget untouched and expect to fix the problems.

[wombat2u2004]

Yes we give a lot of foreign aid. But being poor in America is different then being poor in other parts of the world.
Being poor in India or Pakistian means not having clean water, not having shoes, a toothbush, cloths, a bowl, a glass. Not having a bed or medicine for vaccines for kids. It means no heat, no electic. No nothing. Maybe you have one blanket to share with three peope. You might never have a pair of shoes in your life time. Watching your child or your brothers and sisters starving to death. That is poor.

And why is that in this day and age ????

[pomtzu]

The Deficit is NOT going to get fixed without doing something about SS, Medicaid and Medicare.



What "something" would that be? I depend on SS for my existence and am barely scraping by. Medicare is fine if you don't have to use it, but if you have only minor health issues even, the amount you have to put out in co-pay and deductibles could sink you in no time flat. So you then really need to purchase a supplemental plan to cover these expenses, so that's more money to put out from that big :rolleyes: SS check that you receive.

If the government makes cuts in these programs, then I do believe that they will see a MAJOR increase of people filing for welfare and food stamps. What else can they do???? They worked all their lives, paid into the system, expecting to get some of it back when they retired, and now they might be told "sorry about your luck"??? Gives you a real warm and fuzzy feeling, doesn't it??? :rolleyes::mad:

[Lady's Human]

I've been paying into SS and medicare for my working life, and frankly I don't expect to see a single dime of it, which is why I'm making other plans.

Ponzi schemes eventually fail, even if they're sponsored by the government.

[wombat2u2004]

They worked all their lives, paid into the system, expecting to get some of it back when they retired, and now they might be told "sorry about your luck"??? Gives you a real warm and fuzzy feeling, doesn't it??? :rolleyes::mad:

In what way do you mean "expecting to get some it back" ?? You mean by Aged or Disability SS ???

[pomtzu]

I've been paying into SS and medicare for my working life, and frankly I don't expect to see a single dime of it, which is why I'm making other plans.

Ponzi schemes eventually fail, even if they're sponsored by the government.

Well - if the retired and soon to be retired had any inkling that they wouldn't have what they were paying for, I'm pretty certain that most would have made other plans/arrangements too. Too late now to be worrying about we coulda/shulda done, as we didn't expect to be in this boat. However, I believe I did hear that any cuts wouldn't affect anyone already over the age of 55. I just feel sorry for my kids and grandkids.

[Lady's Human]

You weren't paying anything for yourself. What you paid into SS while you were working was tabbed to pay someone else who was already retired. Of course none of the cuts would affect anyone under 55, why would the congresscritters upset a solid voting bloc?

Craven fools.

[pomtzu]

In what way do you mean "expecting to get some it back" ?? You mean by Aged or Disability SS ???

SS - retirement - my reward for having worked for 45 years and never having collected anything other than 1 week of unemployment the whole time. Yes - I did have to retire on disability 2 years before what I normally would have at 65, but since I was under 65 I could not get Medicare and I did have to pay for my own private healthcare insurance to the tune of over $500 each month, or do without. At least I qualified for SS tho. Medicare kicked in when I turned 65, but between that and my supplemental health insurance, I still pay about $250 each month out of that big SS check. And I don't even carry prescription coverage, which is more big bucks than I care to dish out, but I take next to no meds - fortunately!


ETA: We certainly did get off topic here. Sorry.........:(

[wombat2u2004]

SS - retirement - my reward for having worked for 45 years and never having collected anything other than 1 week of unemployment the whole time. Yes - I did have to retire on disability 2 years before what I normally would have at 65, but since I was under 65 I could not get Medicare and I did have to pay for my own private healthcare insurance to the tune of over $500 each month, or do without. At least I qualified for SS tho. Medicare kicked in when I turned 65, but between that and my supplemental health insurance, I still pay about $250 each month out of that big SS check. And I don't even carry prescription coverage, which is more big bucks than I care to dish out, but I take next to no meds - fortunately!

Yeah. Well I suppose one of the big problems is how the country is going to sustain an ageing population. I believe people of our age group are sort of at the crossroads. I assume the USA and Australia are sort of similar in the way things are run, and how they can approach a problem like this.
Compulsory superannuation was introduced here in Australia about 18 years ago, before that, some people had superannuation, but most didn't, because most people believed that when they reached 65 for men or 60 for women, they would get their old aged pension. It's always been that way, so you can't blame people for not providing for their own retirement. Yes, they thought as you do, you work hard all of your life, and you pay into the system, and in turn the system will provide for you when you retire, and that is fair enough.
Why I believe we are at a crossroad, is because everyone now is providing for their own retirement, so the direction has changed, and now the question is.... why they should subsidise someone elses retirement ? ie: The aged population.
I believe that aged and disability pensions should continue to be paid as they always have. There should be no cuts, and the sum of money payable should be adjusted regularly to account for changes in the CPI and inflation etc, so that those people receiving such pensions, can live comfortably. (That happens here in Australia.) And that the govt. shouldn't even consider reducing the lifestyle of those folks.
I also believe that people who have superannuation be allowed a part pension to "make up" any shortfall, so that they would receive the sum equal to the aged pension. (That also happens here in Australia)
And I also believe that the people who disagree with this should take a real long look at themselves, and start to realise a few truths.

[Bonny]

Yeah. Well I suppose one of the big problems is how the country is going to sustain an ageing population. I believe people of our age group are sort of at the crossroads. I assume the USA and Australia are sort of similar in the way things are run, and how they can approach a problem like this.
Compulsory superannuation was introduced here in Australia about 18 years ago, before that, some people had superannuation, but most didn't, because most people believed that when they reached 65 for men or 60 for women, they would get their old aged pension. It's always been that way, so you can't blame people for not providing for their own retirement. Yes, they thought as you do, you work hard all of your life, and you pay into the system, and in turn the system will provide for you when you retire, and that is fair enough.
Why I believe we are at a crossroad, is because everyone now is providing for their own retirement, so the direction has changed, and now the question is.... why they should subsidise someone elses retirement ? ie: The aged population.
I believe that aged and disability pensions should continue to be paid as they always have. There should be no cuts, and the sum of money payable should be adjusted regularly to account for changes in the CPI and inflation etc, so that those people receiving such pensions, can live comfortably. (That happens here in Australia.) And that the govt. shouldn't even consider reducing the lifestyle of those folks.
I also believe that people who have superannuation be allowed a part pension to "make up" any shortfall, so that they would receive the sum equal to the aged pension. (That also happens here in Australia)
And I also believe that the people who disagree with this should take a real long look at themselves, and start to realise a few truths.

Well Said! Wombat

A lot of people in the U.S. live beyond their means & the rest of us end up paying for it. Not everyone is collecting S.S. & a lot of so called baby boomers are out their trying to help the so called X generation from going under. They put in a lot of hours volunteering in schools, rest homes, hospitals, etc., but I guess that doesn't count? We are just a bunch of leeches sucking THEIR got to have it now system dry.

[pomtzu]

Wom - SS recipients here have not had a cost of living raise in 2 years. The powers that be decided that inflation wasn't all that bad :rolleyes:, and we didn't need any raise. Oh yeah - let's see the powers that be, try to live on what I do each month! :mad:
I wish I had the benefit of a 401K retirement plan all the years I worked, but I didn't. It wasn't until about 10 years before I retired, that the company I had been with already for over 10 years, implemented one. I paid in the max allowable that was met by company funds, but 10 years didn't amount to much. Had I had such a plan all my working years, I would have had a nice nest egg. Again - too little/too late. :(

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I worked for over 25 years and paid into social security all that time. I don't feel a bit guilty over drawing it now. I did have a bit of a retirement fund, unfortunately, I had to live on it while I went from doctor to doctor while the government decided on my disability.

Believe me it is no fun living solely on disability. I'd go back to work in a second if I could.

All I can say is for all of you lucky enough to still work, save every cent you can and buy your own home. When you get on limited income there is no money for rent or mortgauge payments. At least not on my budget.

I'm sure all us oldsters will die as soon as we possibly can and get out of the way. :love:

[Karen]

As someone who is sandwiched between the baby boomers and generation X-ers, I have been told since I was a kid that give the economics, not to count on Social Security existing by the time I am able to retire. I fully expect to be working until I am at least 80. I started paying into the system when I began working at 17, but have never regarded it is something I can count on.

Am I glad it exists for those who need it? Of course! That's entirely separate from expecting it to be available for me.

[lizbud]

I've been paying into SS and medicare for my working life, and frankly I don't expect to see a single dime of it, which is why I'm making other plans.

Ponzi schemes eventually fail, even if they're sponsored by the government.


There's that pessimist side of you talking again. As a Postal Worker you
will have SS and a Government pension that you'll draw from, right?

And it only makes sense for everyone to also save, invest, and take other
measures to help themselves before they get to retirement.

[Lady's Human]

As a FERS retiree, i will have a small (damned small) annuity payment, SS (yeah, right) and my 401-k equivalent.

I will also (as military retiree) be collecting a military pension at 60.

The only portions I actually count on are the military pension and the TSP.

[Lady's Human]

Well Said! Wombat

A lot of people in the U.S. live beyond their means & the rest of us end up paying for it. Not everyone is collecting S.S. & a lot of so called baby boomers are out their trying to help the so called X generation from going under. They put in a lot of hours volunteering in schools, rest homes, hospitals, etc., but I guess that doesn't count? We are just a bunch of leeches sucking THEIR got to have it now system dry.

Volunteering in schools? How? Thanks to the liability scares pushed on the schools by the baby boomer's lawyers, the schools won't take volunteers, because to volunteer you have to pay $$$ to have a complete background check run, and the school is held liable for anything that happens while the volunteers are there. I've been trying to volunteer to help in the schools, and I cannot due to liabilty concerns.

Most of my generation doesn't expect one dime from SS, not because of greed, but because of the greed of groups like AARP who would rather see insolvency for the government rather than cut into their piece of the pie.

[wombat2u2004]

Wom - SS recipients here have not had a cost of living raise in 2 years. The powers that be decided that inflation wasn't all that bad :rolleyes:, and we didn't need any raise.

Well that isn't fair. Payments should be adjusted in line with inflation and the cost of living every six months. It should be done automatically.
Our CPI rates are worked out quarterly, and pensions are adjusted automatically every 6 months.
Pension payment adjustments should not need the approval of some govt lackey every time the cost of living goes up...it has to be linked to index figures.
You will see from the following chart how these index figures change...

http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessionals/content.aspx?doc=/content/1566.htm&mnu=42881&mfp=001/005

[wombat2u2004]

As someone who is sandwiched between the baby boomers and generation X-ers, I have been told since I was a kid that give the economics, not to count on Social Security existing by the time I am able to retire. I fully expect to be working until I am at least 80. I started paying into the system when I began working at 17, but have never regarded it is something I can count on.

Am I glad it exists for those who need it? Of course! That's entirely separate from expecting it to be available for me.

But wouldn't it be nice to know that if your circumstances changed for the worse, that there would be a safety net for you ???

[wombat2u2004]

All I can say is for all of you lucky enough to still work, save every cent you can and buy your own home.

And that's the trick....get a home of your own and OWN IT.
There are way too many people out there with mortgages so high that you couldn't jump over it.
Some people don't think, they go and buy a house on the hill, complete with the encyclopedia set, the completed rockery and the china ducks on the wall, only to find out that they are going to struggle struggle struggle for the rest of their lives.
Ya gotta get a house that you can afford comfortably and then buy the other stuff when you can afford it.
I built my first house when I was an apprentice carpenter, and had no carpet in it for 3 years.....living on a concrete floor is not bad when you know you own every square inch of it. ;)

[Lady's Human]

Well that isn't fair. Payments should be adjusted in line with inflation and the cost of living every six months. It should be done automatically.
Our CPI rates are worked out quarterly, and pensions are adjusted automatically every 6 months.
Pension payment adjustments should not need the approval of some govt lackey every time the cost of living goes up...it has to be linked to index figures.
You will see from the following chart how these index figures change...




COLAs (Cost of Living adjustments) are automatic. However, because of the formula used by the United States in computing the COLAs, there have been no COLAs for two years for either Federal employees or SS recipients. IIRC, food and fuel are not included in the COLA calulations, yielding an actual drop in the cost of living.

To steal a line from someone, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. COLA calculation in the US fall into the third category.

[wombat2u2004]

COLAs (Cost of Living adjustments) are automatic. However, because of the formula used by the United States in computing the COLAs, there have been no COLAs for two years for either Federal employees or SS recipients. IIRC, food and fuel are not included in the COLA calulations, yielding an actual drop in the cost of living.

To steal a line from someone, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. COLA calculation in the US fall into the third category.

Then if they don't include those items like food and fuel, then the cost of living calculations are wrong......so how the hell do they get away with this ??
And how the hell can the public know what the TRUE inflation figures are ??? And therefore the true state of the economy ???
Ours include everything.........
Food
Alcohol and tobacco
Clothing and footwear
Housing
Household contents and services
Health
Transportation
Communication
Recreation
Education
Financial and insurance services

[Bonny]

Volunteering in schools? How? Thanks to the liability scares pushed on the schools by the baby boomer's lawyers, the schools won't take volunteers, because to volunteer you have to pay $$$ to have a complete background check run, and the school is held liable for anything that happens while the volunteers are there. I've been trying to volunteer to help in the schools, and I cannot due to liabilty concerns.

Most of my generation doesn't expect one dime from SS, not because of greed, but because of the greed of groups like AARP who would rather see insolvency for the government rather than cut into their piece of the pie.

You are a tax payer. That is your school. You should be able to volunteer in a building you are paying for with your tax dollars.

We have a special volunteer group in our area & fill out forms before we volunteer & they do the back ground check & we are insured through them & don't have to pay a dime towards the insurance. We fill out time sheets to count the number of people served.

I never thought the generation I am a part of would ever get to see S.S. either. It was threatened to go defunct when I was a teenager. I still pay into to S.S. along with medicare in my part-time job. I plan on working till I drop dead so I guess I shouldn't be to much of a burden to our society.

I was a stay at home mom so didn't build up much in the way of anything so would be considered a codependent person living off of my husbands retirement. If he passes before I do his pension would cease then I would have live off of his life insurance, 401-k,& hopefully get to stay on our little farm. I would not want to be a burden to anyone in our society so hopefully I can stay healthy. If I should die before hubby well then he would have to find himself another sweet heart to keep him company. ;)

As far as AARP goes they are a ripe off.

[wombat2u2004]

If I should die before hubby well then he would have to find himself another sweet heart to keep him company. ;)

No worries mate.....I can help him find someone else.
I'll just take him on a holiday to the Phillipines, plenty of sweethearts there to choose from.
And Bonny, no need to thank me. I'd do the same for any of my mates. ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was a stay at home mom so didn't build up much in the way of anything so would be considered a codependent person living off of my husbands retirement. If he passes before I do his pension would cease...

Sorry to bring up facts again but...if your husband has a pension and dies before you the only way his pension would cease is if you sign papers agreeing to such an arrangement. If he dies before he begins to collect his pension it is assumed he selected (and you agreed to) a survivor benefit.

This is the law - ERISA. It was written to protect spouses. It was lobbied for and written by...Baby Boomers/wicked lawyers/AARP/Congress. Before all these evil people passed this law it was not uncommon for husbands to select the maximum pension payout - with no survivor benefits. Many a widow was shocked to find she had no income after the death of her husband.

As they say - there are facts, damn facts and inconvenient facts!

[Grace]

Volunteering in schools? How? Thanks to the liability scares pushed on the schools by the baby boomer's lawyers, the schools won't take volunteers, because to volunteer you have to pay $$$ to have a complete background check run, and the school is held liable for anything that happens while the volunteers are there. I've been trying to volunteer to help in the schools, and I cannot due to liabilty concerns.


I'm not sure about the schools where you live? I've been a volunteer in the Library of a local elementary school for 12 years. I'm there 8 - 12 hours/week. Several of the moms on my street also volunteer in the school. Far as I know, none of us has had to submit to a strip search, finger prints, anything like that. We are greeted with smiles every time we enter the building.

[Bonny]

Sorry to bring up facts again but...if your husband has a pension and dies before you the only way his pension would cease is if you sign papers agreeing to such an arrangement. If he dies before he begins to collect his pension it is assumed he selected (and you agreed to) a survivor benefit.

This is the law - ERISA. It was written to protect spouses. It was lobbied for and written by...Baby Boomers/wicked lawyers/AARP/Congress. Before all these evil people passed this law it was not uncommon for husbands to select the maximum pension payout - with no survivor benefits. Many a widow was shocked to find she had no income after the death of her husband.

As they say - there are facts, damn facts and inconvenient facts!

Hubby selected maximum pension & there are no survivor benefits. That is why there is the life insurance & 401 K. I don't recall signing any papers with the union or company it was decision he had to make at the time of retirement.

Now I have to keep him alive & well for a long long time. :D

[Lady's Human]

I'm not sure about the schools where you live? I've been a volunteer in the Library of a local elementary school for 12 years. I'm there 8 - 12 hours/week. Several of the moms on my street also volunteer in the school. Far as I know, none of us has had to submit to a strip search, finger prints, anything like that. We are greeted with smiles every time we enter the building.

Not in New York.

Even the umpires for High School sports have to have full background checks.

[aTailOf2Kitties]

a couple of shots to the head
and Osama Bin Laden was dead.
He's got 72
virgins anew
and I hope they're all straight men instead.

[wombat2u2004]

a couple of shots to the head
and Osama Bin Laden was dead.
He's got 72
virgins anew
and I hope they're all straight men instead.

Or beasts of the field. :p