Haw haw

[wombat2u2004]

Oh boy !!!! Does this mean I can pin a bunch of fake medals to my jacket to impress the kids now ????
Thankyou Mr. Stupid US judge for allowing me to be a fake.



Judge Rules Stolen Valor Act Illegal
July 17, 2010

Associated Press



DENVER -- A law that makes it illegal to lie about being a war hero is unconstitutional because it violates free speech, a federal judge ruled Friday as he dismissed a case against a Colorado man who claimed he received two military medals.
Rick Glen Strandlof claimed he was an ex-Marine who was wounded in Iraq and received the Purple Heart and Silver Star, but the military had no record he ever served. He was charged with violating the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a crime punishable by up to a year in jail to falsely claim to have won a military medal.
U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn dismissed the case and said the law is unconstitutional, ruling the government did not show it has a compelling reason to restrict that type of statement.

A spokesman for the U.S. attorney in Denver said prosecutors are reviewing the decision and haven't decided whether to appeal. The spokesman said that decision would be made by the U.S. Justice Department in Washington and prosecutors in Denver.

Strandlof's lawyer, Bob Pepin, said he hadn't spoken to Strandlof since the ruling was issued. Pepin said he would advise Strandlof not to comment publicly because the case might be appealed.
"Obviously, we think this is the right decision, or we wouldn't have been making the objections to the statute to begin with," he said. Pepin said Strandlof has been living in a halfway house in Denver while his case is in the courts.
The law has also been challenged in California and in a case now before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
Denver attorney Christopher P. Beall, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief for the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said the Stolen Valor Act is fatally flawed because it doesn't require prosecutors to show anyone was harmed or defamed by the lie.
"The government position was that any speech that's false is not protected by the First Amendment. That proposition is very dangerous," Beall said.
"It puts the government in a much more powerful position to prosecute people for speaking out on things they believe to be true but turn out not to be true," he said.
Beall said the ACLU was not defending the actions Strandlof is accused of, but took issue with the principle behind the law.
Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., who sponsored the Stolen Valor Act in the House, predicted the decision will be overturned on appeal.
"This is an issue of fraud plain and simple," Salazar said in a written release. "The individuals who violate this law are those who knowingly portray themselves as pillars of the community for personal and monetary gain."
Pam Sterner, who as a college student wrote a policy analysis that became the basis of Salazar's bill, said the issue isn't free speech but misrepresentation. Sterner, a former Coloradan who now lives in Virginia, said authentic medal winners' credibility suffers when impostors are exposed because the public becomes suspicious of even true stories of heroism.

© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

You lot better get back on the Mayflower and float it back to where you came from

[Lady's Human]

The real irritation with this is that many times the "vets" are using their records to receive medical care, federal aid, etc from various agencies, and are using their false representations for material gain.

A purple heart entitles you to certain federal and in many cases state assistance.

The Meritorious Service Medal in some states gets you certain benefits.

And the bastards out there with fake records make it harder for the people with legit issues and records to get assistance.

It is also a violation of federal law to wear any part of the uniform of a military person unless you're either a vet or currently serving, so the stolen valor act is in reality a re-emphasis on another federal law.

Hang the bastards.

[Puckstop31]

I am entitled to benefits that I will never take. Because, to me, taking such a benefit denigrates the entire concept of service. Meaning, to SERVE.

Going into harms way for my country is the 2nd greatest privlidge I ever had. I did dumb things and managed not to die. I am here because of God's grace. It is wrong, IMO, to take a extra benefit from your countrymen for your service. One that is not available to ALL who served, regardless of their ability to be in a position to do stupid things and get shiny things for it.


___


Wom. I get your point. But you might as well urinate on your buddies graves for not caring about the freedom you supposedly defended.

DO I respect the individual who does lies like the article shows? Heck no. Do I defend their right to say whatever they want? Heck yes. In fact, I encourage them to do so.

Sunlight is a kick butt disenfectant. Ya know?

Remember...

[Lady's Human]

Puck, it's not the shiny crap.

It's not even remotely about the shiny crap.

It's about the VA paying your co-pay for the meds you'll need for the rest of your life because you did permanent soft tissue damage to your back while serving.

The idiots with the fake purple hearts, fake Bronze Stars, fake dd-214s and all the rest make it a pain in the ass for people with legit claims to get them heard.

One of my co-workers was given a medical discharge for having his knees destroyed by a deuce crushing them. Cut and dried VA claim, right? Nope, they guy spent two years working with various vets groups to get through all the red tape. Without those co-pays he'd be spending half his paycheck on meds.

It's not about the shiny s**t on your chest. It's about the falsifying bastards polluting the system and making it a pain for those with legit issues.

I could have a disability rating for my back. By choice I don't. eventually I'm going to kick myself in the butt for it, because the muscle meds keep getting more expensive. At some point I'm going to have to deal with the labyrinthine VA system and go that route. The little AHs with fake medals and fake paperwork are going to make it a nightmare, because the VA is going to spend months disproving what's in black and white in my med records.

[Puckstop31]

Puck, it's not the shiny crap.

It's not even remotely about the shiny crap.

I know. I was trying to make a point about the 'extra' benefits recipients of certain awards are entitled to.


It's about the VA paying your co-pay for the meds you'll need for the rest of your life because you did permanent soft tissue damage to your back while serving.

The idiots with the fake purple hearts, fake Bronze Stars, fake dd-214s and all the rest make it a pain in the ass for people with legit claims to get them heard.

One of my co-workers was given a medical discharge for having his knees destroyed by a deuce crushing them. Cut and dried VA claim, right? Nope, they guy spent two years working with various vets groups to get through all the red tape. Without those co-pays he'd be spending half his paycheck on meds.

It's not about the shiny s**t on your chest. It's about the falsifying bastards polluting the system and making it a pain for those with legit issues.

LH, I get it. I agree with you. My last 1st Sergeant worked in the VA claims department in Philly. He shared all kinds of 'stories'.

Again, I get it. I was not talking about the medical benefits available to ALL who served. I used some for PTSD treatment. My old man is using a LOT for his lymphoma treatments...

From the article.

""Denver attorney Christopher P. Beall, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief for the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said the Stolen Valor Act is fatally flawed because it doesn't require prosecutors to show anyone was harmed or defamed by the lie. The government position was that any speech that's false is not protected by the First Amendment. That proposition is very dangerous," Beall said. "It puts the government in a much more powerful position to prosecute people for speaking out on things they believe to be true but turn out not to be true," he said. Beall said the ACLU was not defending the actions Strandlof is accused of, but took issue with the principle behind the law.""

For once, I agree with an ACLU attorney. Could it be proven his lie harmed or defamed anyone? Yep. (The taxpayers, REAL vets.) Should the guy be made to pay back whatever he recieved? Heck yes.

All that aside... If you want to get that guy, charge him with perjury. He signed his name to a legal document in which he lied.


I was primarily addressing Wom and his repeated disdain for our freedoms here. You know, when they don't suit HIS personal idea of liberty.


I could have a disability rating for my back. By choice I don't. eventually I'm going to kick myself in the butt for it, because the muscle meds keep getting more expensive. At some point I'm going to have to deal with the labyrinthine VA system and go that route. The little AHs with fake medals and fake paperwork are going to make it a nightmare, because the VA is going to spend months disproving what's in black and white in my med records.

Fair. Yeah, having to check for fakes makes it a PITA. What dealings with Federal Government agencies are not?

Again, know that I KNOW it is not about the medals.

[moosmom]

And the bastards out there with fake records make it harder for the people with legit issues and records to get assistance.

It is also a violation of federal law to wear any part of the uniform of a military person unless you're either a vet or currently serving, so the stolen valor act is in reality a re-emphasis on another federal law.

Hang the bastards

AMEN!!! This country treats our soldiers bad enough without a bunch of losers trying to infringe on our dedicated war heroes right to the benefits they are SO entitled to. I'm with you LH. Hang the bastards!!! Freedom of speech my @$$!!!

[Puckstop31]

Hang the bastards!!! Freedom of speech my @$$!!!

So it is OK to arbitrarily apply the Bill of Rights? Freedom of Speech is only Freedom of Speech when it makes you feel good?

Good to know where you stand.

[wombat2u2004]

So it is OK to arbitrarily apply the Bill of Rights? Freedom of Speech is only Freedom of Speech when it makes you feel good?

Good to know where you stand.

I think what you need Puck is the right to wake up to yourself.
People like you have never made your country stronger.....only weaker.

[Puckstop31]

I think what you need Puck is the right to wake up to yourself.
People like you have never made your country stronger.....only weaker.

How is that? Because I stand by the oath I took to defend our Constitution?

Can you clarify what 'people like me' means?

[wombat2u2004]

How is that? Because I stand by the oath I took to defend our Constitution?

Can you clarify what 'people like me' means?

Gee Pucky.....yer a regular little patriot.
Do I think that ??? Heck yes.
People like you ???? You want a definition from me ??? Heck yes !!!!
Thats easy.....your'e a simple one to nut out.
Your'e an arrogant yank who thinks he knows everything.
Want more ????
WHATEVER anyone writes....you agree to disagree.
Want more ???
Your a simple and rude little man, a smart ass.....to nutshell it.
Countries like yours will go down the drain quick with idiots like you around...trouble is tho....you'll drag all the good folks with ya.
You keep supporting your liars and cheats Puck.....why....your'e probably one of them.
Leave the medals to us vets....k ????

[lizbud]

I think what you need Puck is the right to wake up to yourself.
People like you have never made your country stronger.....only weaker.


Perfect, spot on.:) and welcome back from "vacation" Wom.:D

[lizbud]

Gee Pucky.....yer a regular little patriot.
Do I think that ??? Heck yes.
People like you ???? You want a definition from me ??? Heck yes !!!!
Thats easy.....your'e a simple one to nut out.
Your'e an arrogant yank who thinks he knows everything.
Want more ????
WHATEVER anyone writes....you agree to disagree.
Want more ???
Your a simple and rude little man, a smart ass.....to nutshell it.
Countries like yours will go down the drain quick with idiots like you around...trouble is tho....you'll drag all the good folks with ya.
You keep supporting your liars and cheats Puck.....why....your'e probably one of them.
Leave the medals to us vets....k ????


This has been a long time coming and it is so earned.:) :cool::cool:

[Puckstop31]

Gee Pucky.....yer a regular little patriot.
Do I think that ??? Heck yes.
People like you ???? You want a definition from me ??? Heck yes !!!!
Thats easy.....your'e a simple one to nut out.
Your'e an arrogant yank who thinks he knows everything.
Want more ????
WHATEVER anyone writes....you agree to disagree.
Want more ???
Your a simple and rude little man, a smart ass.....to nutshell it.

Countries like yours will go down the drain quick with idiots like you around...trouble is tho....you'll drag all the good folks with ya.

The personal attacks aside...

You still did not define what 'people like me' believe.



You keep supporting your liars and cheats Puck.....why....your'e probably one of them.
Leave the medals to us vets....k ????

I am supporting the liars and the cheats? Not in the least. I support the right of people to say whatever they want to say. That does not mean that there should not be consequences for things.

Should a person go to jail for simply saying they are a vet when they are not? NO. Should a person go to jail for committing perjury, by signing a document claiming benefits they are not entitled to? YES.

See the difference?

[Puckstop31]

This has been a long time coming and it is so earned.:) :cool::cool:

Nice. Double standards ROCK!

[Puckstop31]

It's just a plain slap in the face to every one of our troops overseas AND the ones who died defending our country. My uncle Donald Ploss, who won a Purple Heart, is one of them.

Puck, you just don't get it. Sign up, go over to Afghanistan and Iraq, doing what our dedicated troops are doing, then come back and talk to us. Until then, I stick by my opinion. You are an arrogant, pompous little man who likes to start fires here. Lizbud is right. This has been a long time coming and SO deserved.

I HAVE. I've got the scars to prove it. I am talking to you from first hand personal experience. If you care... We have fought in other places than just Iraq and Afghanistan you know...

Are you even reading what I am trying to say? Or are you just letting emotion get in the way?

I am neither arrogant, pompous and I do not try to start fires. You think that because I don't agree with you. When I first started here, yes. I am trying really hard to not be intentionally inflammatory. So, before you call me names... Please take a second and really read what I am saying.

I simply do not think we should violate the rights these people die for when things like the OP happen.

[pomtzu]

Puck, you just don't get it. Sign up, go over to Afghanistan and Iraq, doing what our dedicated troops are doing, then come back and talk to us.

Spout off without knowing anything about this person's past (military) history. Yup - just open mouth and insert foot. :rolleyes::eek::p Guess you could call it "blind bashing".

[lvpets2002]

:rolleyes: Yup I aggree.. * Donna FYI that is where Puckstop aka Brian has been * He is military..
Spout off without knowing anything about this person's past (military) history. Yup - just open mouth and insert foot. :rolleyes::eek::p Guess you could call it "blind bashing".

[Lady's Human]

Puck's a DAT.

More accurately, a CDAT.

Dunno if that's military or not.....Hmmmmmmmm.

We're going to have to disagree on this one, Puck. I certainly see your point, however I feel that unless you've worn the uniform on duty, you have no call to be wearing it otherwise. I find it falls under the same heading as impersonating a police officer. As to the free speech aspect, I've got a somewhat narrower view of the First amendment than you do, and I don't think it applies here.

JMHO, of course.

[Puckstop31]

Puck's a DAT.

More accurately, a CDAT.

Dunno if that's military or not.....Hmmmmmmmm.

For the non-military folks...

DAT = Dumb A$$ Tanker

C-DAT = Computerized Dumb A$$ Tanker (M1 series tanks have all kinds of blinky gadgets, laser beams and such....LOL)

We closed with and destroyed enemy forces using a combination of maneuver, firepower and shock effect. A lot of shock effect in my case. Bad guys who only have a rusty AK-47 tend to run away when the Cav shows up. :)



We're going to have to disagree on this one, Puck. I certainly see your point, however I feel that unless you've worn the uniform on duty, you have no call to be wearing it otherwise. I find it falls under the same heading as impersonating a police officer. As to the free speech aspect, I've got a somewhat narrower view of the First amendment than you do, and I don't think it applies here.

JMHO, of course.

Fair enough. The whole point of how I feel can be summed up thus.

My quote to Wom:


Should a person go to jail for simply saying they are a vet when they are not? NO. Should a person go to jail for committing perjury, by signing a document claiming benefits they are not entitled to? YES.

A guy BSing in a bar about being a soldier is a lot different than lying on a legal document and getting benefits to which they are not entitled.

Now ask me if I would respect a person who lies about being a soldier. Of course not. Do we want to open the can of worms that would be opened by allowing a law enforcement entity to prosecute people for telling untruths when they are under no legal obligation to do so?

Trust me here... I am not simply defending people who lie. Its bigger than that.

[Lady's Human]

Puck, the Stolen Valor Act isn't about guys who lie in bars. It's about people who lie about their military status or experience in a manner which would get them benefits they would not otherwise be entitled to.

It goes well beyond telling a few tall ones over a brew. It's about the AHs who claim VA benefits on the basis of awards they don't have, claim state bennies for the same reasons, use private charities which exist to help vets.

This isn't about a few lies.

[moosmom]

Puck,

Please delete the quote. I give up.:rolleyes:

[lizbud]

:rolleyes: Yup I aggree.. * Donna FYI that is where Puckstop aka Brian has been * He is military..


Maybe he WAS, maybe he wasn't, he is still acts like an arrogant jerk. She got
that right & so did Wom.:) It's so easy to be on the sidelines & beat the drums
of war when your a** is sitting at home sipping a beer. IMHO

If he's so gung ho, re-up and let some poor soldier on his upteenth tour
go home to his wife & kids.

[Lady's Human]

Okay, everyone, back to your damned corners.

Puck and Wom don't like each other. Got it.

However, there was no reason to turn what was a discussion of an issue into personal attacks.

For those who haven't served, questioning someone's service is a slap in the face. I'd highly advise some of you to use caution if you're going to go down that road, because it's a guarantee that it's going to get ugly.

[Puckstop31]

Maybe he WAS, maybe he wasn't, he is still an arrogant jerk. She got
that right & so did Wom.:) It's so easy to be on the sidelines & beat the
drums of war when your a** is sitting at home sipping a beer.

Ya know Liz... Hate me for whatever reason you want to make up in that head of yours. That is fine. Call me all the names you want too. That just shows what is really in your heart. I hope you can let whatever makes you hate so much go.

But where am I 'beating the drums of war'?


If he's so gung ho, re-up and let some poor soldier on his upteenth tour go home to his wife & kids.

See... Making an assumption again. How do you know I did not try and medically disqualified? I'm not a spring chicken any more ya know. ;)

[Puckstop31]

Puck, the Stolen Valor Act isn't about guys who lie in bars. It's about people who lie about their military status or experience in a manner which would get them benefits they would not otherwise be entitled to.

It goes well beyond telling a few tall ones over a brew. It's about the AHs who claim VA benefits on the basis of awards they don't have, claim state bennies for the same reasons, use private charities which exist to help vets.

This isn't about a few lies.

I get it. I think I covered that. If they are lying to get benefits they are not entitled to. Get em.

[Bonny]

I have a question. What do metals have to do with treatment? Shouldn't everyone that has served purple heart or no purple heart be treated equally? :confused:

Pucky, Just because you served in the military doesn't make you any better then anyone else on here. You can read the oath the military has you say but do you really mean it deep down in your heart or are you using it to make yourself look like the victim? :(

[Lady's Human]

Read the laws covering Purple Heart awardees, Silver star awardees, DSM, CMH, and other medals.

There are certain benefits they are entitled to expressly because of certain awards, the I forgot to duck award in particular.

Puck isn't saying he's better than anyone on here, don't see where you're picking that up from?

[RICHARD]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2349/2053628609_c6e585bbd3.jpg


Gollllleeeee!

[Bonny]

LH the queston is for Pucky not for you to answer.

LH I don't give a damn what the military has to say about metals. Everyone should be treated equally in my eyes & my eyes only. That is my opinion not that it will change anything.

[lizbud]

Puck isn't saying he's better than anyone on here, don't see where you're picking that up from?


Bonny,
Yeah, where ever did you get that wild idea? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Reading
his posts, most likely.:D

[Karen]

LH the queston is for Pucky not for you to answer.

LH I don't give a damn what the military has to say about metals. Everyone should be treated equally in my eyes & my eyes only. That is my opinion not that it will change anything.

Bonny, the medals awarded do mean something - one example is the Purple Heart. If someone has been awarded a Purple Heart, it means he or she has been wounded in the course of duty, and it has to be a combat-related injury. If you simply get frostbite sitting in a tent, you don't get a Purple Heart. If you get shot, hit by shrapnel, etc. you do. The real rules of course are more complicated than that, but that's the "gist" of that one.

I agree that people should be treated equally up to a point, but I do think losing a limb while in combat deserves more respect than shuffling papers in an office in Kansas, no matter how important those papers are.

All who serve deserve our thanks and respect. Some deserve more.

[Lady's Human]

Bonny, YOU may not give a damn what the military has to say about medals, but federal and state laws certainly do.

[Bonny]

Combat in the line duty you get injured shuffling papers in an office when a bomb explodes in Kansas. You aren't up for a purple heart if you get injured then, but if you are in Afghanistan shuffling papers you would receive a purple heart if a bomb explodes & you are injured?

Can I give an example of a bar fight in Saigon during the Viet Nam War between Americans & Australians. The MP on duty gets jabbed with a knife & has to have a butterfly band-aid put on his tiny wound does that mean a purple heart? Should the MP be treated better than the paper pusher who loses an arm, & eye. Is it a political thing with the military?

[Lady's Human]

Has to be in the line of duty in combat with the enemy, so no, a barfight in Saigon doesn't count.

[Bonny]

So the paper shufflers don't get anything either even though they are less one arm & an eye?

[blue]

If I ever needed proof that the only soldiers some people feel deserve respect are dead soldiers, I now have it.

[Puckstop31]

LH the queston is for Pucky not for you to answer.

LH I don't give a damn what the military has to say about metals. Everyone should be treated equally in my eyes & my eyes only. That is my opinion not that it will change anything.



OK, I will bite.

First, what was said that makes you think, that I think, I am better than anybody else? Please be specific as possible. I honestly want to know. Worse yet, how in the heck to you get that I am trying to be a VICTIM here?

Did you also miss where I said that I, also, want everyone to be treated equally?

[Puckstop31]

Bonny,
Yeah, where ever did you get that wild idea? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Reading
his posts, most likely.:D

I'll ask you the same question. Show me what I said that makes you think what you think about me.

Show me what I say that makes you think, that I think, I am better than you.

[Puckstop31]

Hey LH.

Is it time for this yet?

"Black 8, White 2 Golf. Fire Mission - break- Tango Romeo Papa 7 - break - drop 200. Danger Close, immediate suppression, over."

"White 2 Golf, Black 8. Fire mission, roger. Tango Romeo Papa 7, drop 200, over."

"Black 8, White 2 Golf. Roger. Over."

- 30 seconds pass, or so

"Shot, over."

"Shot, out."

"Splash, over."

"Splash, Out."


???? ;)

(FYI, this is how my last Cav Troop did it when calling organic assets..)

[Bonny]

There is no real freedom of speech it is all politcal. It is about who you know & what they can do for you in this country. Freedom of Speech has lost its' real meaning in the USA.

Pucky, The dumb things you did in the military endangered everyone that was a part of your unit. You are not the ONLY ONE that has scares mental or physical that has been off to war & lived to come home to see another day. Metals have the most meaning to those who wear them & they know what they have been through to receive/earn them. The rest of us really don't care about metals but the mental & physical care of each & everyone that serves in the military should be treated fairly that we can agree on.

[Puckstop31]

There is no real freedom of speech it is all politcal. It is about who you know & what they can do for you in this country. Freedom of Speech has lost its' real meaning in the USA.

Its probably off topic, but what do you think it's real meaning is/was? As I see it, the primary purpose of the speech clause in the 1st Amendment, per the founders, not my words, was to protect 'offensive' political speech. Last I checked, A LOT of people exercise that right and do not go to jail. Even when lies are used.. On all sides.


Pucky, The dumb things you did in the military endangered everyone that was a part of your unit. You are not the ONLY ONE that has scares mental or physical that has been off to war & lived to come home to see another day. Metals have the most meaning to those who wear them & they know what they have been through to receive/earn them. The rest of us really don't care about metals but the mental & physical care of each & everyone that serves in the military should be treated fairly that we can agree on.

Bonny... How do you have any idea as to what I did or what happened? I kindly ask you to stop making assumptions. I am really trying to be fair here.

Did I ever say I am the ONLY one? Where are you seeing this?

But yes, we can absolutley agree that the mental and physical care a vet recieves should not have anything to do with any particular medal they are awarded.


- Night all. LOL

[Bonny]

Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military. You use the word assumptions a lot when someone has you cornered. Your idea of fairness is what you want us to hear from you but not what you want to hear from us. You just don't get it or is just me? Gaw Night to you too Pucky & I am not laughing.

[Lady's Human]

Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military.

We ALL do stupid things in the military. Sometimes they are things we're ordered to do, sometimes they are things we do to ourselves, and sometimes they're things done in reaction to things others do to us.

Where I think you're missing the point is that what Puck and I will both refer to as stupid things aren't stupid. It's military humor.

There are four parts to a message:

The sender

The recipient

The message

The medium

If the sender and recipient don't speak the same language, the message is garbled.

If the medium restricts portions of the message (as text on a message board certainly does) content is lost.

Servicemembers, former and present, speak the same lingo, and have similar experiences. There's a disconnect in the language that just can't be overcome at times if you haven't been there.

[blue]

Sorry Bonny, but I think Puck gets it better then most of us.

[Lady's Human]

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

[Puckstop31]

Pucky, You said yourself you did some stupid things while you were in the military. You use the word assumptions a lot when someone has you cornered. Your idea of fairness is what you want us to hear from you but not what you want to hear from us. You just don't get it or is just me? Gaw Night to you too Pucky & I am not laughing.

I'm trying to relax for bed and Tanya shows me this. :cool:

Like LH said, we all do dumb things. I was young, dumb and full of.... I learned real fast. Just like soldiers throughout history have. Would you prefer I lie about it?

Cornered? I use the word assumption because that is exactly what you are doing Bonny. People who are cornered often respond to questions with non answers, or other questions. Which is it that you and others are doing here? I have answered all of your questions. How about you return the favor? Tell me what I have said that makes you feel the way you do about me? You have accused me of thinking I am better than everyone else AND that I am playing the victim. What have I said that makes you think that? Because neither is true.

My idea of fairness is a open and honest discussion, back and forth you know? So far, all I have gotten here are baseless personal attacks and whatever it is you are trying to say. I have read what you said and commented on it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If the sender and recipient don't speak the same language, the message is garbled.

If the medium restricts portions of the message (as text on a message board certainly does) content is lost.

Servicemembers, former and present, speak the same lingo, and have similar experiences. There's a disconnect in the language that just can't be overcome at times if you haven't been there.

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

[blue]

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

Quoted before the edit or delete.

[Puckstop31]

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

Especially when it's on the range. Recall how I saw a PA Guard FA Battery nearly destroy the tank range tower at Drum?

But there IS a cannister round for the 120mm tank gun now. :cool: It ain't your daddie's shotgun for sure.

[sparks19]

yes "military stupid" and "civilian stupid" are two VERY different things

to civilians... those who have been awarded the medal of honor have done something heroic

In the military if you are awarded that medal it's because you've done something stupid and 9 times out of 10 you aren't awarded that medal and live to see it... BUT that doesn't mean they weren't heroic. They just did something "stupid" that risked their own life and COULD have risked the life of others but they acted in the heat of the moment and did what they thought was best at that time with SPLIT seconds to make a decision.

As someone else said it's easy to sit on your a$$ behind a computer and beat the drums while you are sipping a beer... it's also SO easy to sit behind a computer and talk about what is and isn't stupid for military people in combat and how that does or does not affect their unit.

MIlitary "stupid" is not what most civilians would see as "stupid" it's usually seen as the opposite. luckily all of us sitting behind computers have infinite minutes to sit here and decide what we would have done in such a situation. not so easy when you have mere seconds.

just saying

[Lady's Human]

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?


The disconnect is largely created by the difference between "soldier talk" and the language the rest of the populace of the US speaks.

The subject was brought up on this forum, and WAS being discussed in a civil manner................

When soldiers talk about doing stupid things, it has a different meaning.

[blue]

"Military stupid" takes alot more balls then "Civillian stupid".

[Puckstop31]

"Military stupid" takes alot more balls then "Civillian stupid".

Sometimes... More often, you are simply in a REAL hurry. The whole, "a bad decision NOW is almost always better than a good decision later", thing.

---

LH. Maybe that is why we always hurry up and wait? So that when we actually get to go somewhere or do something, we hurry? LOL

[blue]

Sometimes... More often, you are simply in a REAL hurry. The whole, "a bad decision NOW is almost always better than a good decision later", thing.

After much thought and started responses all I can say is...

Yes.

From my own REAL hurry experiences, I would rather have Puck, LH and/or Wom helping with river rescues or forklift accidents. I think the rest of you would either panic or pass out when dealing with life or death decisions.

ETA: Some of yall would likely throw up a the sight of blood.

[moosmom]

Blue,

The sight of blood doesn't bother me at all. Try brains all over your shoes trying to save a drunk, who drove his friend's motorcycle into a pole after drinking almost a whole bottle of Jack Daniels. Now THAT'S what gets my adrenaline pumping. Must be the EMT-I in me.

I apologize to anyone I might have upset. I guess I'm a little sensitive when people who DON'T deserve military benefits, try to take them away from the ones who do.

[wombat2u2004]

[QUOTE
We closed with and destroyed enemy forces using a combination of maneuver, firepower and shock effect. A lot of shock effect in my case. Bad guys who only have a rusty AK-47 tend to run away when the Cav shows up. :)[/QUOTE]

Hey Rambo.....spin us some more war'ys.
I love hearing about turkey shoots.

Mmmmmm....tanks and maneuver and shock n' awe and great firepower...you must have had a great time. Sounds like fun arcade stuff to me.

So did you have to put a dime in the slot to make this show work for you ???
Well you know, you did have that RIGHT.

[wombat2u2004]

If he's so gung ho, re-up and let some poor soldier on his upteenth tour
go home to his wife & kids.

Awwwwww.....that can't happen Lizzy. He'd probably win the war all by himself in a day or two. What would happen to all of those generals....they'd be out of a job.

[wombat2u2004]

Combat in the line duty you get injured shuffling papers in an office when a bomb explodes in Kansas. You aren't up for a purple heart if you get injured then, but if you are in Afghanistan shuffling papers you would receive a purple heart if a bomb explodes & you are injured?

Can I give an example of a bar fight in Saigon during the Viet Nam War between Americans & Australians. The MP on duty gets jabbed with a knife & has to have a butterfly band-aid put on his tiny wound does that mean a purple heart? Should the MP be treated better than the paper pusher who loses an arm, & eye. Is it a political thing with the military?

I bet the Aussies won. :)

[wombat2u2004]

Sorry Bonny, but I think Puck gets it better then most of us.

Ahhhhhh....the ever faithful cousin.

[wombat2u2004]

Puck, danger close sucks.......even if it's on a range.

But, yeah, a little canister might be in order. (oops, we don't have that for 155s anymore.)

No more canister ??? My mates in the 2/35th will be peed off.

[wombat2u2004]

Then why don't you guys take this talk to a medium that doesn't restrict portions of your message?


Where there is no disconnect?

Where your message isn't garbled?

Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

[Edwina's Secretary]

Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

Sorry....you have me mixed up with Grace. Her thread is here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=153886)

[Puckstop31]

Hey Rambo.....spin us some more war'ys.
I love hearing about turkey shoots.

Mmmmmm....tanks and maneuver and shock n' awe and great firepower...you must have had a great time. Sounds like fun arcade stuff to me.

So did you have to put a dime in the slot to make this show work for you ???
Well you know, you did have that RIGHT.

Certainly, my experince was not that of a soldier who fought the infantry fight in a long protratced war. But am I supposed to apologize for that or something?

And no, it was anything but a good time. I am a little surprised a veteran such as youself would suggest such a thing.

[Lady's Human]

We closed with and destroyed enemy forces using a combination of maneuver, firepower and shock effect.

Wom, that's pretty much the mission statement of the US Army Armored Corps.

As many times as I heard it at hood it got to be something of a joke, and that's how most treated it.

[blue]

Ahhhhhh....the ever faithful cousin.

No.

[blue]

Who invited you ???
Haven't you got obituaries to read ???

Silly Aussie, its not Sunday.


Sorry....you have me mixed up with Grace. Her thread is here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=153886)

[lizbud]

I'll ask you the same question. Show me what I said that makes you think what you think about me.




One cannot prove perceptions. It is what it is. Observations & insights
accumumilated over many months tend to stick around until things change.
Your profestations to the contrary, they haven't changed at all.

[lizbud]

Awwwwww.....that can't happen Lizzy. He'd probably win the war all by himself in a day or two. What would happen to all of those generals....they'd be out of a job.


Believe me, I had a similar thought.:) The Generals could carry his bags.:D

[pomtzu]

Holy crap!!!! Who put the bee in Wom's bonnet (or helmet)??? He certainly is wound up after his absence. Maybe something to do with the Harley???? :confused::confused::confused::eek:

[Puckstop31]

One cannot prove perceptions. It is what it is. Observations & insights
accumumilated over many months tend to stick around until things change.

This, I can agree with. Thanks.


Your profestations to the contrary, they haven't changed at all.

This, I disagree with. Frankly, I doubt I will ever change your mind, no matter what I do.


But, I always like a challenge. ;)


All I ask is that you not hate me for my opinions. We all have different ideas about things. I think we can discuss them in a rational manner, that does not require resorting to childish personal attacks. And, regardless of your perceptions, a great many others here seem to think I have changed a lot in the years.

[Puckstop31]

No.



Try this...


[Forest Gump Voice]

No sir, we are not relation.

[/Forest Gump Voice]

:D

[lizbud]

And, regardless of your perceptions, a great many others here seem to think I have changed a lot in the years.


Take it from me, there are a great many others who percieve it differently.
Most of them don't think talking this out is worth their time & effort. Can't say
that I blame them, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion & I won't try
to talk them out of it. Just don't confuse silence with consent.

[blue]

I think we can discuss them in a rational manner

I think you where just proven wrong.

[Puckstop31]

Take me from me, there are a great many others who percieve it differently.
Most of them don't think talking this out is worth their time & effort. Can't say
that I blame them, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion & I won't try
to talk them out of it. Just don't confuse silence with consent.

<le sigh>

I am not looking for consent Liz. But, carry on making things up as you go along if you wish.

Jets and Sharks forever I reckon.

[Bonny]

I read Grace's military obit's everyday. A lot of soldiers must be making major mistakes. A good part of the obit's say their deaths are under investigation. :confused: So do a good part of them get purple hearts even tho they may have errored in their judgement. The metals must make the soldier then? What if you don't receive any metals what does it make you a flunky soldier? The only thing I can think of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time ( you could get killed & receive a metal) or being in the right place at the right time (you could survive & receive a metal)?

[blue]

metal

...

[lizbud]

<le sigh>

But, carry on making things up as you go along if you wish.





Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D

[Catty1]

It's "medal". Parts of them are made out of metal, but they are called medals.:)

[blue]

Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D

You're doing quite well at it already. :D

[Puckstop31]

Seems to work alright for you, I just might try it.:D


LOL

Liz. I would LOVE to have a real debate with you. You pick the topic.

[Catty1]

Let's start with something easy.

Pie vs cake - which is better? :D

[RICHARD]

PASTRY.



No.......

Cake,
One of those German chocolate effers.

With coconut and nuts on top and glass of cold milk. The milk will make me sick, but where am I going tomorrow?

[blue]

LOL

Liz. I would LOVE to have a real debate with you. You pick the topic.

Just set down some ground rules so she doesnt pull the childish BS her and the rest of the cheerleaders pull when they are backed in a corner and dont have an answer. Of course she wouldnt agree to that so good luck with any sort of Honest Debate with the Cheerleaders.

:D

I will happily admit I was wrong if Liz or ES or any of the Cheerleader Honestly takes Puky up on his offer of a debate. Im not going to hold my breath that the Honest debate will happen any more then Barry will focus more on running this country over improving his golf game.

[Bonny]

Please don't meddle with my metal/medal. :eek: Blu is part of the grammar patrol. Well, the teacher goes along with the cheerleaders. Rah! Rah!

[wombat2u2004]

LOL

Liz. I would LOVE to have a real debate with you. You pick the topic.

Well thats the reason you're here Pucky.
I'd say the only reason.

[wombat2u2004]

Just set down some ground rules so she doesnt pull the childish BS her and the rest of the cheerleaders pull when they are backed in a corner and dont have an answer. Of course she wouldnt agree to that so good luck with any sort of Honest Debate with the Cheerleaders.

:D

I will happily admit I was wrong if Liz or ES or any of the Cheerleader Honestly takes Puky up on his offer of a debate. Im not going to hold my breath that the Honest debate will happen any more then Barry will focus more on running this country over improving his golf game.

Oh good God.
Are you kidding ???? Has the Cabin Fever gone to your head or is it just in the genes ???
Who in hell would want to listen to Puck go on and on and on about his bloody rights????

[wombat2u2004]

Please don't meddle with my metal/medal. :eek: Blu is part of the grammar patrol. Well, the teacher goes along with the cheerleaders. Rah! Rah!

Hee hee.....good one Bonny.
I guess if someone picks on ya spellin....then it's gotta be all they've got. ;)

[Catty1]

blue may have picked on it, but I corrected it. I guess I am something or other by association...:D

I really think the cake and pie debate should be tried...just to practice technique. ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate
Debate or debating is a formal method of interactive and representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than logical argument, which only examines consistency from axiom, and factual argument, which only examines what is or isn't the case or rhetoric which is a technique of persuasion. Though logical consistency, factual accuracy and some degree of emotional appeal to the audience are important elements of the art of persuasion; in debating, one side often prevails over the other side by presenting a superior "context" and/or framework of the issue, which is far more subtle and strategic.

The major goal of the study of debate as a method or art is to develop one's ability to play from either position with equal ease.** To inexperienced debaters, some propositions appear easier to defend or to attack; to experienced debaters, any proposition can be defended or attacked after the same amount of preparation time, usually quite short. Lawyers argue forcefully on behalf of their client, even if the facts appear against them. However one large misconception about debate is that it is all about strong beliefs; it is not.

**Liz, you take Puck's side, and Puck, you take Liz's. :)

[sparks19]

Cake... hands down.

and there is no chance of taking the other side on that one. Pie is good... but cake is best :p

[pomtzu]

Cake... hands down.

and there is no chance of taking the other side on that one. Pie is good... but cake is best :p

Ok there missy - why cake??? And what cake??? Just any old cake, or a specific kind??? And just what specifically makes it better than pie? HUH??? And at Thanksgiving, are you going to bake a cake while most "normal" people bake all those yummy pies?? - apple, pumpkin, mincemeat - just because YOU happen to think cake is better???? Boy - you are so out in left field on this one.....:eek::p:D

[Bonny]

Thats ok Catty1 (Cathy1) I'll let you get by with it this time;).

Pie's are better then cake because if they don't taste good you can smash them into the face of the person that made them. The lemon meringue & bananna cream pies work best for that. Making pies is a delicate art that crust has to be soft, flakey, & good tasting & then there is the filling not to tart not to sweet just right. Baking them is an art. You have to get that lower crust baked thoroughly & the upper crust has to be a light brown but still remain soft & flakey. The Amish women know how to make a good pie but you have to watch out sometimes you can find a stray hair in them. :D

[pomtzu]

Definitely pies. In general, I think they are healthier - less sugar, less shortening, and there is definitely an art to making them. Much tastier too.

But what makes a cake a cake, and a pie, a pie??? Boston Creme Pie isn't pie, neither is a Moon Pie. So if a cake (or soft cookie) has a filling, it then becomes a pie??? :confused: What about cheesecake??? - that's not really cake at all - more like a cheese pie! :p

Candace - you started this, so would you like to weigh in on this??? :p Gee - this is off topic too. The OP might not appreciate this debate. :eek:

[Catty1]

off topic is GOOD! :p;):D

[Puckstop31]

**Liz, you take Puck's side, and Puck, you take Liz's. :)

I would be game if she was also. :)

Naturally, arguing for the position you do not hold is often difficult. BUT, also learn things that reinforce the position you hold.

Which, is in part, why I like to post here.

[Puckstop31]

For savory types dishes, pie hands down. Granted, there are not to many applications for a savory cake. LOL

But, I am not a big fan of sweets so I eat them rarely. But when I do, carrot cake is often the medium.


So, I pick cake. Layers are fun. Most pie does not have layers. :cool:

[pomtzu]

So, I pick cake. Layers are fun. Most pie does not have layers. :cool:

But Boston Creme PIE does, if it's really pie and not cake. :p

So why are you avoiding my question - what defines pie or cake???? :D

Hey - don't blame me. This was Catty's idea............:p:D

[sparks19]

Ok there missy - why cake??? And what cake??? Just any old cake, or a specific kind??? And just what specifically makes it better than pie? HUH??? And at Thanksgiving, are you going to bake a cake while most "normal" people bake all those yummy pies?? - apple, pumpkin, mincemeat - just because YOU happen to think cake is better???? Boy - you are so out in left field on this one.....:eek::p:D

Listen here lady...

first of all cake is better because I can't bake pie lol but I do make a mean cake

Secondly, there are FAR too many pies with fruit in them and as far as I am concerned FRUIT has no place in my desserts lol

and yes I would bake a cake. NORMAL people are boring. I'm eccentric.

and what exactly is mincemeat anyway... doesn't even sound tasty. sounds like a way you would describe road kill

HEY I'm allowed to my have my opinion... cake is better is MY opinion and if you dont' like that then you can suck an egg

:p:D:p

[caseysmom]

You cake lovers are all the same...no reasoning with you at all!

Its pie all the way...you put enough sugar on fruit it is a wonderful dessert treat! How about chocolate cream pie....yummo!

And puckie doesn't even like dessert...talk about a commie pinko..you know the rest!!!

[Medusa]

Listen here lady...

first of all cake is better because I can't bake pie lol but I do make a mean cake

Secondly, there are FAR too many pies with fruit in them and as far as I am concerned FRUIT has no place in my desserts lol

and yes I would bake a cake. NORMAL people are boring. I'm eccentric.

and what exactly is mincemeat anyway... doesn't even sound tasty. sounds like a way you would describe road kill

HEY I'm allowed to my have my opinion... cake is better is MY opinion and if you dont' like that then you can suck an egg

:p:D:p

I'm w/you, girlie; I'd bake a cake for the holidays and, as a matter of fact, I have done that. I buy a pumpkin pie or have someone bring one for those who like it but I don't care for it. "Normal people are boring" made me LOL.

[pomtzu]

Listen here lady...

first of all cake is better because I can't bake pie lol but I do make a mean cake

Secondly, there are FAR too many pies with fruit in them and as far as I am concerned FRUIT has no place in my desserts lol

and yes I would bake a cake. NORMAL people are boring. I'm eccentric.

and what exactly is mincemeat anyway... doesn't even sound tasty. sounds like a way you would describe road kill

HEY I'm allowed to my have my opinion... cake is better is MY opinion and if you dont' like that then you can suck an egg

:p:D:p

OMG - you live in Amish country and you don't know what mincemeat is??? Does Puck let you out of the house much??? :eek:

Gotta give you credit for the roadkill remark tho. For those strange people that don't know what mincemeat really is, I can see where that might come to mind. :D

Oh - did Puck ever teach you what Google is all about??? :rolleyes::p

[Catty1]

Normal = a setting on a washing machine. ;)

[Lady's Human]

Who in hell would want to listen to Puck go on and on and on about his bloody rights????

Wom, tell ya what. You keep your pom written constitution, we'll keep the one we have.

I don't try to tell you how the land down under should do things, and one of the few things that would unite opinion in the US is someone trying to tell us how to run things.

I like our "bloody rights" very much, thank you, and I think we'll keep 'em.

Want to be a subject, not a citizen, have at it.

[pomtzu]

Normal = a setting on a washing machine. ;)

Who asked you??? :eek::D If you have something meaningful to contribute regarding pies or cakes, then please do. If you think that avoiding the issue at hand is acceptable, then think again. There are already way too many people in the boat of "change the subject". We don't need more........:rolleyes::eek::p;):D


OMG - I think the heat has finally gotten to me...........:eek:

[Puckstop31]

But Boston Creme PIE does, if it's really pie and not cake. :p

So why are you avoiding my question - what defines pie or cake???? :D

Hey - don't blame me. This was Catty's idea............:p:D

Well, let us see here.

Dictionary.com defines the items of contention, thus:

pie1    /paɪ/ Show Spelled[pahy] Show IPA
–noun
1. a baked food having a filling of fruit, meat, pudding, etc., prepared in a pastry-lined pan or dish and often topped with a pastry crust: apple pie; meat pie.
2. a layer cake with a filling of custard, cream jelly, or the like: chocolate cream pie.
3. a total or whole that can be divided: They want a bigger part of the profit pie.
4. an activity or affair: He has his finger in the political pie too.
5. pizza.



cake   /keɪk/ Show Spelled [keyk] Show IPA noun, verb, caked, cak·ing.
–noun
1. a sweet, baked, breadlike food, made with or without shortening, and usually containing flour, sugar, baking powder or soda, eggs, and liquid flavoring.
2. a flat, thin mass of bread, esp. unleavened bread.
3. pancake; griddlecake.
4. a shaped or molded mass of other food: a fish cake.
5. a shaped or compressed mass: a cake of soap; a cake of ice.
6. Animal Husbandry . a compacted block of soybeans, cottonseeds, or linseeds from which the oil has been pressed, usually used as a feed or feed supplement for cattle.

---

So, indeed we have a conundrum on our hands. The dessert food item, commonly called Boston Cream PIE, could be certainly also be labeled a cake. What to do?

I, not being a SMA (subject matter expert) on cake OR pie would humbly request a recess from the board to allow time for research to be done.

Or, if a recess is not availble, I offer the follow answer.

'Clearly, calling the dessert commonly known as Boston Cream Pie (hereafter BCP), a pie, when it could certianly be called a CAKE, is an attempt by the generally left leaning denziens of the Bay State to confuse the populace into thinking that BCP is a healthy alternative to any cream based cake. My support is that Pie has previously been said to be a 'healthy alternative' to cake.'

I yield the floor back to the lady from Delaware.

[Puckstop31]

You cake lovers are all the same...no reasoning with you at all!

Its pie all the way...you put enough sugar on fruit it is a wonderful dessert treat! How about chocolate cream pie....yummo!

And puckie doesn't even like dessert...talk about a commie pinko..you know the rest!!!

I must offer protest.

If you please review my comments to the lady from Delaware, you will see that I have offered some reasoning.

And how DARE you insinuate I am a communist sympathizer for my personal expression of a lack of desire to indulge in sweet foods?!?!?! Have I, at any point, attempted to force my point of view on the subject upon any other member of this board?

I think not. :p

[Lady's Human]

Well, as everyone knows, Pi are square.

Every Boston Cream Pie I've ever seen has been round, so by simple logic it CANNOT be a pie.

[pomtzu]

Well, let us see here.

Dictionary.com defines the items of contention, thus:

pie1    /paɪ/ Show Spelled[pahy] Show IPA
–noun
1. a baked food having a filling of fruit, meat, pudding, etc., prepared in a pastry-lined pan or dish and often topped with a pastry crust: apple pie; meat pie.
2. a layer cake with a filling of custard, cream jelly, or the like: chocolate cream pie.
3. a total or whole that can be divided: They want a bigger part of the profit pie.
4. an activity or affair: He has his finger in the political pie too.
5. pizza.



cake   /keɪk/ Show Spelled [keyk] Show IPA noun, verb, caked, cak·ing.
–noun
1. a sweet, baked, breadlike food, made with or without shortening, and usually containing flour, sugar, baking powder or soda, eggs, and liquid flavoring.
2. a flat, thin mass of bread, esp. unleavened bread.
3. pancake; griddlecake.
4. a shaped or molded mass of other food: a fish cake.
5. a shaped or compressed mass: a cake of soap; a cake of ice.
6. Animal Husbandry . a compacted block of soybeans, cottonseeds, or linseeds from which the oil has been pressed, usually used as a feed or feed supplement for cattle.

---

So, indeed we have a conundrum on our hands. The dessert food item, commonly called Boston Cream PIE, could be certainly also be labeled a cake. What to do?

I, not being a SMA (subject matter expert) on cake OR pie would humbly request a recess from the board to allow time for research to be done.

Or, if a recess is not availble, I offer the follow answer.

'Clearly, calling the dessert commonly known as Boston Cream Pie (hereafter BCP), a pie, when it could certianly be called a CAKE, is an attempt by the generally left leaning denziens of the Bay State to confuse the populace into thinking that BCP is a healthy alternative to any cream based cake. My support is that Pie has previously been said to be a 'healthy alternative' to cake.'

I yield the floor back to the lady from Delaware.



Well, by definition, a BCP should technically be named Boston Creme Cake. The #2 definition in pie as noted above, is quite a contradiction in itself, don't you agree? How can a cake be a pie, or vise versa???

May I further state, that my previous reference to pie, being "healthier" than cake, was meant to mean the "true" pie, and not any cake that tries to disguise itself as pie. Cake has shortening, eggs, lots of sugars, etc, whereas the real pies such as fruit or mincemeat (please explain mincemeat to wifey!), really are healthier. Would you rather eat fruit or lard??? :eek:

[pomtzu]

Well, as everyone knows, Pi are square.

Every Boston Cream Pie I've ever seen has been round, so by simple logic it CANNOT be a pie.

Au contraire! I have baked a Boston Creme Pie/Cake in a square cake pan, so does that make it a cake?
I really think there should be some kind of legislation to rename this dessert, so people know what they are really eating. A pie lover might be appalled to find out he's really been eating cake all along.............:eek::D

[wombat2u2004]

Wom, tell ya what. You keep your pom written constitution, we'll keep the one we have.

I don't try to tell you how the land down under should do things, and one of the few things that would unite opinion in the US is someone trying to tell us how to run things.

I like our "bloody rights" very much, thank you, and I think we'll keep 'em.

Want to be a subject, not a citizen, have at it.

Perfect !!!!
And yer new mosque at Ground Zero will be finished soon....so ya got that going for you all to. ;)

[Lady's Human]

1) It's not "at" ground zero.

2) It's legal, it's within bounds of the zoning for the area, what's the issue?

They'd better hire a damned good security force if and when it actually gets built, but that's on them.

[wombat2u2004]

No issue.
If thats what you want....thats what ya get.

[Lady's Human]

I believe the phrase used by those evil white guys who wrote the Constitution was something about "a government of laws, not men"

[Bonny]

:eek: Is the Mosque a memorial for the Terrorists that rammed the planes into the World Trade Center? :confused: That is really sick if it is. :mad:

[Catty1]

No, Bonny, it is a place of worship. Not all Muslims are terrorists.

If you are a Christian, are you like the abusive Catholic priests or the murdering Crusaders? Of course you aren't. You might even feel some shame at how those two groups represent the Christian faith.

I am sure many Muslim people feel the same shame, and do their best to live as decent human beings.

The building of a Mosque near ground zero can be the beginning of unity, forgiveness and healing, or an opportunity for hate and anger to thrive.

It's up to us.

[Miss Z]

^ Well said.

At the centre of Islam is peace. Extremism is as akin to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity; both are monstrosities of humanity cowering behind something they see as justification for their evil.

LH,

I think many posts on this thread have been wired to inflame on the basis of (sigh, yet again) different countries. Bravo on your posts, as ever. I believe that when one refuses to get out into the world and explore other ways of doing things, one becomes so cocooned in one's own affairs that it's an easy way out to blame Johnny Foreigner for everything. I think if this board is generally incapable of discussing other nations' ideas, then we must indeed adopt the afore mentioned 'you keep yours, and I'll keep mine' approach.

[moosmom]

Zara,

Absolutely!!

[Lady's Human]

Miss Z,

To quote a rather famous Englishman:

There are four and twenty ways
Of constructing tribal lays
And every single one of them is right.

[Bonny]

This is where our forefathers come in, freedom of speech & religion. I just find it insulting to build a Mosque. Why not an ecumenical place where everyone can worship together? That would make more sense to me & be able to share their cultures & religion the melting pot of friendship & peace.

[Catty1]

Great idea, Bonny - maybe there should be one of those too.

I wonder how many would actually show up? I would hope no one would damage it. There are fundmentalists in all faiths, and unity of faith can be seen as blasphemy.

Seriously, if you can find out who to contact, send them a letter or email! :)

[Lady's Human]

Because it's an Islamic group who bought the property, and they want to build a Mosque.

Is that a wise decision? Personally, no.

However, it's their property, and they can do with it as they see fit.

[pomtzu]

This is where our forefathers come in, freedom of speech & religion. I just find it insulting to build a Mosque. Why not an ecumenical place where everyone can worship together? That would make more sense to me & be able to share their cultures & religion the melting pot of friendship & peace.

AMEN to that idea.........:)

Afterall, it was a melting pot of people who perished there on 9/11.

[Karen]

This is where our forefathers come in, freedom of speech & religion. I just find it insulting to build a Mosque. Why not an ecumenical place where everyone can worship together? That would make more sense to me & be able to share their cultures & religion the melting pot of friendship & peace.

That's the glory of America - we can have as many different places of worship as we want - I live in a city with many different denominations of Christian churches, from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholic to Evangelical and Unitarian and everything in between, several Jewish temples, a Jehovah's Witness Meeting Hall, and while we don't have a mosque within our borders, there's one right next door in Brighton.

Why would you consider it insulting to build a mosque in New York, not on Ground Zero, but in the neighborhood? Is not part of celebrating one's freedom the ability to worship where one chooses?

This is not on the Ground Zero site.

I am sure there will some sort of nondenominational worship space on the Ground Zero site, if they ever decide, and get started construction anything ....

[Bonny]

It is near ground zero to near. Did you ever wonder about the Terrorists on those planes that slammed into the Trade Center, if they had well to do familys & this is a way to memorialize them? Just a thought. Do the churches in your town have Terrorists attending them? Maybe they can build a Mosque next to the place the other plane went down also? Lets hope their intentions are good & they are building a Mosque to worship in for the good of all Mankind.

[caseysmom]

Just want to add that standing up to bigots is not bullying! No I don't mean this toward Lizbud. What would this country be if we let bigots get by without any resistance????

[Bonny]

So are you calling me a Bigot? What about our brothers, sister, aunts, uncles, moms, & dads that were killed in the World Trade Center, do you think it would be a great honor to have a Mosque built close by in the Terrorists memory? That would be like building a Mosque next to the Wailing Wall in Isreal. Do you think that would be a good idea? Someone has to stand up for our country.

[Karen]

The mosque has been in the planning stages for years. It is two blocks from the Ground Zero site. How far away would be far enough for you?

It is not a mosque for the same branch of Islam as the extremists who flew the planes into the buildings.

" the spiritual leader of the Cordoba Initiative, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, describes himself as a Sufi — a Muslim focused on Islamic mysticism and spiritual wisdom."

It is not a mosque built in memory of the Sunni terrorists.

I maintain, as an American who strongly believes in the right to religious freedom, that there is nothing controversial about this planned mosque, but that lately certain branches of the media have latched onto it as a "hot" topic, and are trying to distract people from real issues that matter.

[Lady's Human]

The Dome of the Rock and the El Aqsa Mosque are mere feet from the wailing wall.

[Bonny]

That area is sacred ground. Islam has no place near it. It will bring trouble & already has. The Islamic people will be endanger, what will it remedy not a thing it will only bring more hatred on both sides which it already has. A good five miles radius would be a start.

[Lady's Human]

Sacred? To which religion? Jet fuel isn't partial to the religious beliefs of one group or another. There were people of many religions and creeds killed and injured at the WTC

Five mile radius? Okay, so trash the First amendment..........

[Bonny]

Do you think that the familys of those killed would be agreeable to a Mosque near the place where their kin were murdered by Islamic Terrorists?

Yes, lets trash the amendments & the rest of the political bull that is running this country into the ground.

[Miss Z]

That area is sacred ground. Islam has no place near it.

I believe similar sentiments are held in 'sacred' parts of Israel, and think of the trouble that simmers there.

Islam has no place near it? Wow, that's a kick in the teeth for any Muslim family who lost loved ones that day (and just to clarify, no, not the terrorists, for as has been reiterated several times now, they do not represent Islam. They are a scar on its face.).

[Lady's Human]

I'm sure the families of any muslims killed at the WTC would have no issues with a mosque being built there.

So, trash the constitution........

What are you going to replace it with?

[Bonny]

It is already being replaced with Socialism. Let the government take you by the hand & do everything for you.

Lets turn it around lets say we bomb a Trade Center in the land of Islam. We then plan to build a Ecumenical Christian Center there. How do you think the people of Islam would feel?

[Lady's Human]

So.....

You don't like the Constitution, but you don't like that it's being ignored and overridden.

If you could replace it with something, how are you going to guarantee that the same doesn't happen with the replacement government, whatever it is?

[Bonny]

Lets start with the war in the East. Let the military fight the war & keep the politicans out of it.

[Lady's Human]

How are you going to keep the politicians out of it, when war is an extension of the Nation's political goals through violent means?

While I agree with keeping certain aspects of politics out of the military, they are intertwined by necessity. Certain things ascribed to political interference in the press are a reality of the current war.

The COIN manual currently in place is a creation of the military staff who wrote it, not the politicians or the state department.

[Bonny]

Good lets send the politicans, over along with the military staffers to fight the war by their rules & bring our troops home if that is the case.

BO & his buddies suing the state of Arizona because he doesn't have the balls to protect our borders. Or more like there is no money left because the war is on in the East. A war he was going to end,one of his promises. BO's idea, lets leave it to congress to rewrite the immigrations laws. WHEN?

[Lady's Human]

Good lets send the politicans, over along with the military staffers to fight the war by their rules & bring our troops home if that is the case.


The staffers who wrote the manual are the staff of CENTCOM. They ARE over there fighting the war.




President Obama and AG Holder (edit) suing the state of Arizona because he doesn't have the balls to protect our borders.


No, they're suing the State of Arizona because their new law is unconstitutional. The 14th amendment to the Constitution o t he United States leaves immigration control and Border enforcement to the Federal Government, not the states.


President Obama's (edit) idea, lets leave it to congress to rewrite the immigrations laws. WHEN?

Ummmm.........that's Congress's JOB. Obviously not too many people are REALLY upset with Congress, we keep sending the same crew back over and over again. 90%+ incumbent re-election rate, guys. You might be upset, but obviously not upset enough to vote 'em out.

[Bonny]

I was wondering why we aren't WINNING THE WAR. Now a person knows.

But the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS DOING NOTHING to protect our borders. They are ENFORCING NOTHING.

Vote them out & some other fool steps in to take their place with a bunch of false promises. I am to the point I would VOTE for someone if they promised NOTHING. Lets face it the world has really gotten bigger & our britches are being taken up many notches.

[Lady's Human]

I was wondering why we aren't WINNING THE WAR. Now a person knows.



Fighting an insurgency is not a "Hey, we sank your carriers, we win!" World War 2 situation.

It can take years.

Afghanistan is a mess, always has been, but can be stabilized. Prior to the Soviet Union's invasion it was doing fairly well.

Unless people are really willing to tackle the ISI (Pakistani intel group, more rogue than the CIA ever THOUGHT of being) and take on a nuclear armed state, Afghanistan will drag on for years.

[Bonny]

I hope eventually we can whip the Terrorists Butts & find some kind of peaceful existence with the Muslim world. But who knows who's terms it will be on?

[Lady's Human]

I hope eventually we can whip the Terrorists Butts & find some kind of peaceful existence with the Muslim world. But who knows who's terms it will be on?

Hasn't happened in 1300 years, I doubt that's going to change anytime soon.

[Bonny]

You never know maybe Allah will end it all for everyone.

[Cataholic]

LH, just the other day we were speaking here at work about the lack of respect shown to our highest ranking person- the President. I liked your editing to show that respect.

[Lady's Human]

Thanks, Cataholic. Like 'em, dislike 'em, they still sit in the highest office in the land, and deserve, if nothing else, the respect that the office deserves.

As a Sergeant Major told me years ago referring to an officer who I had just had an issue with, "You don't have to respect the person wearing the rank, but you have to respect the rank"

I'm wondering how much calmer our discourse would be if that were done across the board? There would be a bunch of pundits in the unemployment line, though, as that seems to be their whole schtick.

[Bonny]

Cataholic, And The Crowd Cheers On.

[caseysmom]

So are you calling me a Bigot? What about our brothers, sister, aunts, uncles, moms, & dads that were killed in the World Trade Center, do you think it would be a great honor to have a Mosque built close by in the Terrorists memory? That would be like building a Mosque next to the Wailing Wall in Isreal. Do you think that would be a good idea? Someone has to stand up for our country.

I wasn't even referring to you, but if the shoe fits....

[Karen]

Like 'em, dislike 'em, they still sit in the highest office in the land, and deserve, if nothing else, the respect that the office deserves.

Yet another thing that was drummed into our heads as kids! Our parents were quite firm about many things, and respect was one of them, along with the freedom of speech and responsibility that comes with it, and of course, love for animals!

[Bonny]

Caseysmom, Just who were you referring to I'd like to know. If you are pointing fingers you might as well fess up to who is a Bigot on here? I noticed some people on here can do & say whatever they want but if any of us speak up we get axed for being disrespectful & there is a metling pot on here so I guess there is a double standard too or am I blind?

[caseysmom]

I don't care to mention names but most folks know who refers to Mexicans, coma patients and the overweight in very condescending terms. I have no doubt I have missed a few groups that have been spoken ill of by this person.

[Lady's Human]

Yeah, Karen does give some people far too much rope.

IMO, of course.

[Bonny]

Caseys mom, You can make a choice to ignore that person if you see their name & thread. The coma thread I read some of it & left. Had a similar thing with my mom. She had to sign a paper not to be revived if she stopped breathing or put on a respirator. It was the hardest thing I have done in my life & you know my mom was the bravest person I have ever known in my life. As far as over weight people go you don't look at the outside you look at the inside.

[caseysmom]

Caseys mom, You can make a choice to ignore that person if you see their name & thread. The coma thread I read some of it & left. Had a similar thing with my mom. She had to sign a paper not to be revived if she stopped breathing or put on a respirator. It was the hardest thing I have done in my life & you know my mom was the bravest person I have ever known in my life. As far as over weight people go you don't look at the outside you look at the inside.

I should have posted that in the other thread...you accused folks of picking on marigold...picking on a person and standing up to a bigot are two different things...sorry for the confusion.

[pomtzu]

Yeah, Karen does give some people far too much rope.



Eventually they will hang themselves if given enough.

IMO of course.

[Cataholic]

Cataholic, And The Crowd Cheers On.

Whatever do you mean by this cryptic message?

[wombat2u2004]

I'm sure the families of any muslims killed at the WTC would have no issues with a mosque being built there.

So, trash the constitution........

What are you going to replace it with?

Commonsense might be a start.

[wombat2u2004]

Lets turn it around lets say we bomb a Trade Center in the land of Islam. We then plan to build a Ecumenical Christian Center there. How do you think the people of Islam would feel?

We wouldn't be allowed to do that.
They don't have a Bill of Rights that can be used and abused by foreigners for a start.....nor do they need one.
Then of course if we even suggested it, it would be an insult to Islam, and many heads would roll both literally and practically.
And then every Christian Church in the Middle East would be a target, and would be destroyed.....and mosques built on them accordingly....as they always have done on conquered territory.

""In America, Muslims claim a mosque on Ground Zero, “will improve their relationship with Americans.” An improved relationship with the people of Islam is conditional on the premise that Islam be allowed to rule independently and authoritatively. A lesson in taqquiya (deception allowed to advance Islam) –Incremental submission to Islam is required for an incremental improvement in relationship. Historically, a mosque and call to prayer from its minarets on conquered territory is a symbol of victory and conquest.""

Islam already has exploited our politicians "Political Correctness" and our ordinary man on the street's "Apathy".

[wombat2u2004]

Lets start with the war in the East. Let the military fight the war & keep the politicans out of it.

Now ya talking !!!!
If that was done 40 years ago, then the world would have known not to test us too far. But no....we had to show the world that we had a limit, and could be finally worn down.
The media favourite headline became the NEW IN-THING...."The Unwinnable War".
Now that is about the best message yet we have sent to those who wish to have a go at us.

[Lady's Human]

Commonsense might be a start.

When hell freezes over.

The Constitution as written is common sense, it limits the power of the Federal Government and emphasizes the rights of the people.

I forget, you guys down under still have a large strain of "service to the queen" running through your veins.

Or, on the other hand, try this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=e0oqAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=common+sense,+thomas+paine&hl=en&ei=D5tPTPbeNsT58Abz0r2tAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you're going to claim common sense as a ruling theory, let's start there.

[wombat2u2004]

When hell freezes over.

The Constitution as written is common sense, it limits the power of the Federal Government and emphasizes the rights of the people.

I forget, you guys down under still have a large strain of "service to the queen" running through your veins.

Or, on the other hand, try this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=e0oqAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=common+sense,+thomas+paine&hl=en&ei=D5tPTPbeNsT58Abz0r2tAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you're going to claim common sense as a ruling theory, let's start there.

No.....no Service to the Queen left here old mate....we diced the pommies a long time ago. We still allow a few to immigrate here, but have to educate them on the true value of personal hygeine.

As for commonsense......thats gotta beat political correctness.

[Lady's Human]

In the case of the mosque in NYC?

It's not political correctness, it's the law of the land.

[wombat2u2004]

In the case of the mosque in NYC?

It's not political correctness, it's the law of the land.

Whatever lubricates the slippery dip on the way down.

[Lady's Human]

There are ways to change it, but those who want to are too busy trying to circumvent the law.

Doing things the right way takes WORK.

[RICHARD]

We still allow a few to immigrate here, but have to educate them on the true value of personal hygeine.



:o:D:eek:

[wombat2u2004]

There are ways to change it, but those who want to are too busy trying to circumvent the law.

Doing things the right way takes WORK.

I agree.

[Cataholic]

Cataholic, And The Crowd Cheers On.

Perhaps you missed this the first time I asked it. Here it is again:

Whatever do you mean by this cryptic message?

[Bonny]

The Majority Rules

[Lady's Human]

Plain answers must be in short supply this week.

:p

[Bonny]

Ladys Human, The Majority Rule that means you & the rest of your relatives on here. You aren't by chance Karens brother are you? You never answered any of the questions I had asked so I have to assume. Short on Answering Questions?

[sparks19]

RelativeS? plural? How many family members DO you think he has on here lol

keep it in the family I guess :)

[Cataholic]

LH is Karen's BROTHER?????? No way.....

How in hey's name did I get dragged into your twisted plot, Bonny? By complimenting LH on his show of respect for the POTUS? Did that mean I disrespected you for your lack of respect for the POTUS?

As coincidental as it might seem, I had had a conversation with one of the partners here at work on the lack of respect people tend to show the POTUS last week, or the week before. He (a republican) was the one that made the first comment...that people show the President very little respect, and how that was different than when he was growing up. I, as a supporter of the President, was happily surprised to hear his comments.

So, when I saw LH do the same, I commented and complimented him on it. Wasn't really a majority rules, a relative thing, etc. It was a comment.

LH and I don't always see eye-to-eye on things, even though he is my mother's second cousin's husband's nephew, twice removed.

[pomtzu]

LH is Karen's BROTHER?????? No way.....



Yes way.....I thought that was common knowledge. :eek::D

[Lady's Human]

LH and I don't always see eye-to-eye on things, even though he is my mother's second cousin's husband's nephew, twice removed.

I thought it was your second cousin's wife we were related through?

Durnit, back to the geneology charts. :mad:

[Lady's Human]

Yes way.....I thought that was common knowledge. :eek::D

We REALLY need a sarcasm tag.

Besides, Pom, aren't you related through our great great grandfather's third cousin?

[Cataholic]

Yes way.....I thought that was common knowledge. :eek::D

Do you want your leg back? :D

[Cataholic]

We REALLY need a sarcasm tag.

Besides, Pom, aren't you related through our great great grandfather's third cousin?

No, no, no! Pom is related to Wom...silly.

[Puckstop31]

(For LH)


You all wouldn't happen to be from West Virginia, would ya?




Cue Banjo music. :D

[caseysmom]

Bonny, stick around and learn...LH and Karen don't always see eye to eye but they both show respect. LH and I usually disagree more than we agree but he is respectful toward me and I hope I do the same to him.

[Lady's Human]

No, no, no! Pom is related to Wom...silly.

http://api.ning.com/files/3JTfZWtD4qq8gjdlaYXg6C56pj5BCKboxWilYYLFZp4_/FACEPALM.jpg

[pomtzu]

No, no, no! Pom is related to Wom...silly.

OMG - I refuse to comment! :eek:

See that - I didn't say that it was good OR bad - now did I????:confused::p

[Puckstop31]

OMG - I refuse to comment! :eek:

See that - I didn't say that it was good OR bad - now did I????:confused::p

How does it make you feel that this was your 4,000th post?

:p

[pomtzu]

(For LH) [SARCASM]


You all wouldn't happen to be from West Virginia, would ya?


For the record - it's Wes Virginny. :p

[pomtzu]

How does it make you feel that this was your 4,000th post?

:p

Darn - I didn't even notice. Maybe we should celebrate with some moonshine!!!!

[Lady's Human]

And in all that, a perfectly good

http://api.ning.com/files/3JTfZWtD4qq8gjdlaYXg6C56pj5BCKboxWilYYLFZp4_/FACEPALM.jpg


was buried.

[Puckstop31]

Darn - I didn't even notice. Maybe we should celebrate with some moonshine!!!!

Now we are talkin'! Just not the kind that makes you go blind. (poet? know it?)

[Queen of Poop]

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!

Does someone want to adopt me into the family?:eek:

[Lady's Human]

Sure, QoP!

We take in strays all the time!

[smokey the elder]

...As a Sergeant Major told me years ago referring to an officer who I had just had an issue with, "You don't have to respect the person wearing the rank, but you have to respect the rank"

...

Reminds me of the line from Down Periscope: Admiral Graham: "You are speaking to a superior officer!" Dodge: "No, merely a higher ranking one."

[Karen]

QoP, the family is well know for taking in strays, growing up, it was always smartest to do a quick head count before setting the table for breakfast - or dinner, depending on who was sleeping on the couch to escape what situation where they lived.

To set the record straight, Lady's Human is my brother. And while we also have a sister named Johanna, she is not Cataholic, in fact she is horrifically allergic to cats, and has no pets right now, and doesn't belong to Pet Talk. We do have another brother as well as nieces, nephews and cousins of all sorts all over the map, and while I am not cognizant of any residing in West Virginia, or Wes' Virginny either, I would not bet against it being a possibility.

[Lady's Human]

Normal scream before mealtime:

"How many leaves do we need in the table?":p

[lvpets2002]

:) Four!! I understand.. I grew up on farm & we always had extra bodies at the supper table.. It was like whats one more mouth to feed.. We cooked in large amounts..


Normal scream before mealtime:

"How many leaves do we need in the table?":p

[Lady's Human]

Cook(ed) in large amounts? I still get accused of having no portion control!

[RICHARD]

Cook(ed) in large amounts? I still get accused of having no portion control!

FOOD FOR THOUSANDS?

MY mom always cooked that way.....I'd ask her "what are you cooking, food for thousands?"

[Lady's Human]

My brother and I made a pot of chili once while our parents were out of state. Lasted us for the better part of two weeks.

[RICHARD]

Cue Banjo music. :D

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/4016253091_0aabf7f6cf.jpg

[lizbud]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/4016253091_0aabf7f6cf.jpg



Richard, wasn't that the creepest movie you ever saw? Scary to think
it was part of the USA.:eek:

[RICHARD]

Richard, wasn't that the creepest movie you ever saw? Scary to think
it was part of the USA.:eek:

That's why I don't like Steve Martin, overalls and any sport that involves running the rapids.:eek:;)

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2008/8/Crazy-Pig-Calling-Lady-553340.html

[wombat2u2004]

Richard, wasn't that the creepest movie you ever saw? Scary to think
it was part of the USA.:eek:

Isn't that kid from Indiana ???? Hee hee :p

[Bonny]

Had an emergency yesterday we had to put a cow down :(

And the relatives are coming out of the closet. :D Nice of you to finally answer some of my questions. Ladys Human is Karens brother!

Now why is it that Richard can abbreviate BO & I can't. Do I need to have brown biceps before I can do that? ;) Richard understands the brown bicep thing & I am not being RACIST or a BIGOT. You can come trim my honey suckle bushes next week Richard. :)
:)

[Lady's Human]

And the relatives are coming out of the closet. :D Nice of you to finally answer some of my questions. Ladys Human is Karens brother!


Didn't think that was any great secret, it's been known since I joined the board.

[Cataholic]

Bonny,
I am sorry to hear you lost a cow. :(

[lizbud]

That's why I don't like Steve Martin, overalls and any sport that involves running the rapids.:eek:;)

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2008/8/Crazy-Pig-Calling-Lady-553340.html


Wow, she even manages to look the part, not just make sounds like them.;)

[lizbud]

Isn't that kid from Indiana ???? Hee hee :p



Could be I suppose, but then we don't have the hills they have to hide
in like down in the South.:)


ps. Bonny, sorry about the cow.:( Was she ill, or was it a accident?

[Bonny]

The veterinary said Big Mama (the cows name) had a broken spine. She could of fallen off the trail & injured herself, the pasture is flat land along a creek with a sharp trail to the hills on top. She had twin calfs which we rounded up & bought home. It is a bummer Big Mama was a good mother & we will miss her.

[lizbud]

The veterinary said Big Mama (the cows name) had a broken spine. She could of fallen off the trail & injured herself, the pasture is flat land along a creek with a sharp trail to the hills on top. She had twin calfs which we rounded up & bought home. It is a bummer Big Mama was a good mother & we will miss her.


Oh, that's so sad. I am so sorry and hope she didn't suffer long.:(

[wombat2u2004]

Could be I suppose, but then we don't have the hills they have to hide in like down in the South.:)

I seen some in Arkansas....kinda scary the way they look at ya.

[wombat2u2004]

The veterinary said Big Mama (the cows name) had a broken spine. She could of fallen off the trail & injured herself, the pasture is flat land along a creek with a sharp trail to the hills on top. She had twin calfs which we rounded up & bought home. It is a bummer Big Mama was a good mother & we will miss her.

Sorry to hear that mate. It's always a bummer when ya lose good stock.

[Karen]

The veterinary said Big Mama (the cows name) had a broken spine. She could of fallen off the trail & injured herself, the pasture is flat land along a creek with a sharp trail to the hills on top. She had twin calfs which we rounded up & bought home. It is a bummer Big Mama was a good mother & we will miss her.

Aww, our sympathies. How old are the calves? Will they have to be bottle fed? You should do a memorial post for her over in Pet Memorial.

[Bonny]

Karen, The twins are four months old & are wild & would put up a real fight if we tried to bottle feed them. They are receiving hay & a special calf feed. There is fresh water for them to drink in the water tank. They are settling in & called for Big Mama some today when the other cows came up for water. They think she is in with the herd here at home. We have them close to our house & keep an eye on them to make sure they are eating. Thanks for your concern. :)

[blue]

Didn't think that was any great secret, it's been known since I joined the board.

Im SHOCKED, SHOCKED I say SHocked even. I guess I shouldnt be suprised that the Mayors brother can edit other members quotes when I would get banned (or is it band?) for doing such a thing. Shocking I say.

Maybe I should have used sarcasm tags? :PirateSalute:

[Karen]

He hasn't edited anyone's post, he doesn't have any privileges other than normal members have. Paul and I are the only one that have privileges to edit anything, as has been the case for a long time.

[Lady's Human]

I believe what Blue was referring to is when I quoted Bonny but edited the references to the current administration to include the proper titles for the sitting President and Attorney General.

There was no editing of content, just changed the titles to show proper respect for the offices in question.

[blue]

Maybe my post wasnt over the top enough, or maybe it was and I missed the mark. I have done what LH has done in this thread, editing Quotes, and I was told that was unacceptable and a bandable offence (or is it bannedable?), sorry Karen I have cleaned out my PM box so I no longer have proof of this by way of PM's from you. Either way I take this whole thread in good fun and good ribbing from our criminal siblings from below the equator. Good show Wom, good show. *Golf clap*

[Karen]

Oh, he meant editing the content of a quoted post - technically anyone can do that, and it is good, because that way we can quote, for example, just the sentence we are responding to, not a whole long post. It is just not permitted to change the content of a quote to make it look like someone said something they did not.

Does that clarify things?

[Bonny]

I need an answer to my question. Why does Richard get to use BO which I thought was an abbreviation & I can't? I didn't even notice the change until Blu mentioned it.

[Lady's Human]

Because we had a family meeting and decided it was time to pick on you.

Who knows who it's going to be next week. We pick the names out of a hat, and you never know who the next victim is going to be.

[Karen]

I need an answer to my question. Why does Richard get to use BO which I thought was an abbreviation & I can't? I didn't even notice the change until Blu mentioned it.

I never scolded you for that, it is an abbreviation, for goodness sake.

[caseysmom]

Because we had a family meeting and decided it was time to pick on you.

Who knows who it's going to be next week. We pick the names out of a hat, and you never know who the next victim is going to be.

Thanks now I have 7up all over my screen.....

[blue]

Blu.

Can I buy an "E"?

[wombat2u2004]

Because we had a family meeting and decided it was time to pick on you.

Who knows who it's going to be next week. We pick the names out of a hat, and you never know who the next victim is going to be.

This is why we all live in fear. :p

[wombat2u2004]

Can I buy an "E"?

Yes Bonny....you are quoting my mate I write you about sometimes.
BLU is in Portugal.....BLUE is in Alaska ;);)

[Bonny]

All right! :eek: All right!:eek: Yes, for God sake it was an abbreviation. :eek: There was JFK & LBJ & I don't know BO's middle initial?

Have you even drawn your own names from the hat? :D

[wombat2u2004]

Thanks now I have 7up all over my screen.....

Bummer.

[blue]

I don't know BO's middle initial?

H, as in Hussein. So maybe BHO would be acceptable to LH in the future.

[blue]

Yes Bonny....you are quoting my mate I write you about sometimes.
BLU is in Portugal.....BLUE is in Alaska ;);)

Please it is blue, not BLUE. I guess I should have asked to buy an "e" instead.

[wombat2u2004]

Please it is blue, not BLUE. I guess I should have asked to buy an "e" instead.

Edit: blue is in ALASKA. :D

[blue]

Thank you sir. :cool:

[wombat2u2004]

An interesting perspective...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg

[blue]

Im not watching anything you find interesting without Cliff notes.

[wombat2u2004]

Cliffnotes with reference to bananas

Political power can simply be defined as the power to influence. The power to influence is essentially the power to control. When pertaining to political matters, the most influential people in any form of government have the most power. The underlying argument is between who has the most influence. Is it the elite or the majority? There are four theories of who truly governs. The first theory is clearly elitist. Karl Marx has said that all government in any way shape or form is controlled by whichever class dominates the economy. In all societies there is an economic struggle between two major classes. Although the working class is the majority they have the least political power. This is solely because they have less money than the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie on the other hand dominate the working class economically simply because they own the factories where the working class work. The theory also represents the government as a machine designed to favor to the dominant classes interest. This is why a Marxist would believe that it is pointless to study a government because it has none of its own power. It runs on whoever feeds it, and in this case it is the bourgeoisie. The second theory is most similar to the first. It states that the nongovernmental elite has the most political power. This time when I mention elite it goes beyond the bourgeoisie. This elite is composed of corporate leaders, high ranking military officers, and a small group of political leaders. Other groups can be added, such as the leaders of the media, labor leaders and the heads of special interest groups. Many more groups can be added but the basic underlying idea of this theory is that a very small group of high status officials not involved in government contain the majority of political power. The third theory tends to sway from the first two theories. It states that political power is concentrated within some of the people who actually run the government, the bureaucrats. Because the bureaucrats are appointed officials it separates itself even farther apart from the other theories. The bureaucrats are only influenced by the people that appoint them. This is why the political power is contained within the government. The fourth and final theory can be described as a combination of the first three theories. It delves into the dominance of power between the elite themselves. All of the elite groups have a certain amount of political control, and they themselves are responsive to their follower?s interests. Their followers being the majority have the most political power in this theory because they influence the elite. If the majority isn?t happy the elite wont be elite anymore. Majoritarian and Elitist politics represent two ends of the spectrum of political thought. The four theories of who governs is clearly an elitist?s point of view. The majority is influenced by the mass media, and it is rare to find anyone with their own ideas. The majority is told what they want, and the monkeys get the bananas. :p:p

[blue]

Thats still way to much reading this late or early.

Summarize damnit!!

[wombat2u2004]

How about this............???

Political power can simply be defined as the power to influence.
The majority is told what they want, and the monkeys get the bananas.