Change of times. Good or bad?

[NicoleLJ]

I was having this discussion with several of my friends the other day and it was very interesting to hear all their views. Both male and female. Look at 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago.

Women mainly stayed in the home, cared for the home, made the meals, cared for the kids, did charity work and so on. It was expected of them and in most instances women appeared to be fine with this. Men worked out of the home. Left every day to work. Earned the money. Supported their children and wife. And in many instances their parents as they aged as well. THis was expected and seen as their responsibility.

In these times there was less crime, people were more inclined to live within their means, kids were taught to respect what they had and to make it last. Marriage meant something. Family meant something. Everyone worked for a common goal which was to support the family. People worked to live not lived to work. Things were not perfect, never are, but they were no where near what today is like.


Now look at today. Things are way different. Rarely if ever do you hear of a stay at home mom and if you do a lot of times people frown on them as being lazy and refusing to work. Even the spouse can have a problem with this. Kids more and more are being raise by nannies, day cares and schools instead of parents. The career has become more important then the family. Thinking of one self has become the accepted norm over thinking what is best for the common good. Marriage has become something of a convience, if it is good stay if it is tough go. People rarely live with in their means any more. Children are in the expectant stage always thinking the world owes them instead of being thankful for what they got. Crime is hugely on the rise.

Women are now expected to work and still do all the same domestics that they did before. Men are also expected to work but now take on the domestics as well. Gone is the day when neighbours helped each other. Now is the day when people can live side by side for years and not even know each others names. Family rarely takes care of family any more. Now it is seen as a joke to talk about a grandparent alone in an old folks home and never visited.

Have we really progressed? Why are we all expecting double duty of ourselves and our partners? Where has the core of the family unit gone? And at this rate where is it going to end up?

[moosmom]

Times have definitely changed. In my 57 years I've never seen crime this bad. The poor economy and lack of employment is forcing some people to do things in an effort to survive. People just take what isn't theirs and others be damned. People killing people for little or no reason.

When I was growing up, I lived in the projects of Hartford, CT (Bowles Park). We would sit out on the front steps till all hours of the night with our neighbors. Do that in this life, and you're sure to get a bullet in your head. We, as kids, could take our bikes and as long as we were home by dinner, my parents didn't worry. And you better be where you say you are, or you paid dearly for it when you did get home. There doesn't seem to be any structure in these times either. Didn't have to worry about drive-bys, kids getting abducted, home invasions. I shake my head in sheer disappointment. Not even the cops can handle things like they used to. It's pitiful.

Don't even get me started about parental guidance, cuz I don't think it exists in this day and age. I got spanked when I did something wrong and I turned out okay (still in therapy but alive and well, thank you very much). Do that nowdays and the kids call DCF.

I feel bad for my kid and her kids. I'll be long gone before anything (if at all) changes. It's highly unlikely.

[caseysmom]

I always felt like being a working mom I was a good role model for my daughters. I know lots of mom's that are stay at home, they usually have their own college degree though. I did manage to do both with my husband's help who also worked, it was teamwork in a new way.

I don't think its good for a women not to go to college and have an education, if you do happen to be in an unhappy marriage you would have no means to care for yourself.

Are you a stay at home mom Nicole?

[NicoleLJ]

I agree. Education is very important. A woman working is not the issue because the father could stay home. There is nothing that says one or the other is the sex that has to stay home.

[Karen]

Just because most women stayed home back then doesn't mean they were any happier than women are today. In earlier years, women were told to stay with abusive husbands often because divorce was seen as a failure, and women were told that any abuse was their own fault. Years ago there were no such thing as the shelters that are available now for women to escape abuse. An older friend once told me when she tried to tell her own mother about the abuse she was suffering at the hands of her first husband, her mother told it was her role as a woman to be a good wife, and not talk about such things.

Having the choice of whether to attend college, whether to work, and even reproductive choice and more understanding of their own bodies mean women have more control over their lives than before. How they choose to exercise that control is up to them, and while we may not agree with them, I do think having choice is better than having no choice.

I know that my family history is not exactly typical. Women in my family have been expected to go to college for several generations. My Great Aunt Evelyn was a high school principal when basically women weren't supposed to have that kind of job, and certainly a MARRIED woman was not supposed to. My mother was amongst only the second class of women allowed in her college, now Clark University, because with the war going on, if they wanted a student body, they figured they had to make the change.

I had one professor, when I was in college, fretting one day that her daughter was going to be permanently harmed psychologically because she chose to go back to work, which meant that her daughter attended day care a few days a week. I told her that I did not feel "psychologically harmed" and I went to someone's house for day care when my mother worked, and I thought it was fun. She looked at me like I was some sort of otherworldly creature ... but then realized that indeed, I was probably one of the more stable of the students in her classroom.

Life changes, for better or for worse. How we deal with those changes is what matters. And taking responsibility for our choices is a good thing, I think. And I know plenty of good, responsible parents raising children today, thank you. And not just my own family, I wasn't even thinking of them when I typed that sentence.

Being kind, being a good example, working hard and caring for those who need it - pets, animals and people - these are not unheard of. They may not make the news, but these people exist.

I have known since childhood that it's a good thing I am alive today. 200 years ago, my near-sightedness would likely have had me confined to a chair, or I'd wander off a cliff by accident. My asthma would have been unmanaged. I would have been regarded as frail, even if I had lived to grow up! Go to any old cemetery, and look carefully, notice how many children died before age 5. And before age 12. I am glad I am alive now, thanks!

[NicoleLJ]

That is the thing though. Fewer and fewer people take responsibility for their choices any more. They take responsibility for what is in their best interest. We are getting worse and worse into the me generation. People can no longer have expectation of others. Before it actually meant something when someone said their word is their bond. Now we are raised to trust no one but ourselves. It is sad.

Yeah no time in history is perfect but the problems of today are way out of comparision to the problems of the past. I honestly would prefer to have lived back when family meant something. Where community was more important then one single person. Why can't we have those things now and still the benifits of now? Because society is becoming more and more selfish.

[caseysmom]

Family still means everything to a lot of people. I have been married for 29 years and my daughters know their needs come before mine.

[Karen]

I honestly would prefer to have lived back when family meant something. Where community was more important then one single person. Why can't we have those things now and still the benifits of now? Because society is becoming more and more selfish.

Those things are all still true today. You cannot judge a whole society by what you see on the news.

When was the last time you saw a headline "Mom feeds her family well." Or "Dad takes a pay cut to spend more time with his family?" Or "Woman works two jobs so her children can stay in school?" Or "Child become first in her family to graduate high school," or "Music/basketball/science/math (pick one) scholarship allows boy to escape bad neighborhood," or "Grandmother cares for 5 grandchildren for no pay while her children sort out their own lives?" These things happen every day. I could give you names for each of these examples, but I bet you could find some of your own. Everyday heroes just working, keeping their heads down, and caring about their communities, volunteering at schools, shelters, and just being good neighbors.

Wave to your neighbors. Get to know people. Try not to assume the worst of everyone.

[Lady's Human]

The crime rates aren't actually worse, CNN et al just need the constant headlines to feed the 24 hours news beast.

[phesina]

Thank you, Karen and LH. You've both said what I wanted to say and said it so well!

[Asiel]

My thoughts exactly. I don't think you can judge today's world the way it was years ago because we have more technology, better education systems, better everything that makes our lives easier.
But as far as family values, what was instilled in me as a child I instilled in my own children and I have no complaints in that department.
I think it boils down to one thing...life is what YOU want to make it. You reap what you sow .

[Marigold2]

Karen you made some excellent points. Women now have so many more choices. I don't think that the world is that much worst then it was say a hundred and fifty years ago. People were hanged, horse theives were shot. Women were not able to vote, there were no child labor laws, no birth control. People were less educated, slavery was allowed, medicine was incredibly barberic. I don't think people were kinder, I certaintly don't think men treated women better for they didn't have any rights back then.
Children worked on the farm and were to be seen and not heard and if your husbend beat you well that was just tough luck. There were as far as I know no laws against drinking.
If Uncle John touched you funny well there was no Oprah to talk to, no therapy to be had. A rotten tooth must have been hell. A women's montly disgusting, childbirth a trip to hell and beyond, cataracts well to bad, cancer you die, gun shot, knife wounds, broken limbs. People suffered and I think tempers flared often. Flies, ticks, lice, long hair, long dresses, no electric, having 15 kids and a two bedroom home with a dirt floor. I don't think I would be smiling much, or being happy with lice and flies bitting me when I tried to sleep and I had to get up in 4 hours and cook for 15 kids and one mean, drunk husbend.
I think life is much better now, I don't think we have more crime either I think it is just reported me. If people are crammed into tight spaces regardless of age, sex, education, health they will fight and trouble will brew. Even rats precious and kind as they are to one another will begin to fight if crowded together as I believe any animal will do.

[Twisterdog]

The crime rates aren't actually worse, CNN et al just need the constant headlines to feed the 24 hours news beast.

Amen! I've had this discussion with my parents before. They talk about something they saw on the news, and lament the "good old days" when there wasn't so much crime and violence. I mention to them that without television, radio, the internet, etc. they just wouldn't have known about a murder that happened two hours ago, two thousand miles away. Then they start talking about the murders, suicides, rapes, molestations, etc. that happened in their small town ... but that only a very few people knew about.

I propose that the per capita crime rate hasn't changed all that much over time ... the information age just allows us to hear about it all now.

My parents also start out talking about the "good old days", and end up talking about how it's much nicer now to have reliable vehicles, heat, electricity, medical care, appliances, shopping, etc.

[moosmom]

Now we are raised to trust no one but ourselves. It is sad

VERY well said.

My Dad, who was a news photographe,r always said that today's media would go to any lengths, including stepping over the bodies just to get a news story. Sad is right.

[Alysser]

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm 17. Part of the generation some of you claim is losing family values. Personally, I didn't lose any of that. I would do anything for my good family and friends. Absolutely anything. They're the most important thing in my life and one of the only things I've got to loose.

I also personally the generation in the last 30-20 years has becoming much more accepting of different ideas and preferences. I don't know anyone who cares about someone being gay, bi-sexual, lesbian, straight, catholic, jewish, indian, hindu, or whatever else. We're way more accepting of different races now. We have a black president now. 2 of my best guy friends are gay, and I get along with them so much better then I do with alot of guys. I love them to death. People aren't shunned from society for being gay and there are less prejudices. Women have more choices, everyone has more choices of what they want to do. People have more of a future for equal opportunities and success.

I agree with Asiel 100%, great post :)

[Miss Z]

I also personally the generation in the last 30-20 years has becoming much more accepting of different ideas and preferences. I don't know anyone who cares about someone being gay, bi-sexual, lesbian, straight, catholic, jewish, indian, hindu, or whatever else. We're way more accepting of different races now.

That is a really good point. I can note stark differences between my parents' attitude on these issues and that of my own, simply because modern society has been more open with me than it was with them. They can concede that such issues were more hushed when they were growing up.

In Britain, perhaps, we have gone overboard with political correctness to the point where words have to be chosen very carefully. It beats racist and sexist and whatever-else-ist slander, but I do believe it to be backpedalling somewhat. Indeed in some instances the Big Brother-esque commandment of 'Thou shalt not be mean, even in jest, lest thy neighbour complaineth' adds further pressure to existing tensions. So in answer to the question, is society changing for the better - yes, but we have to have a firmer picture of what beneficial change is!