Stoned to death

[Marigold2]

A women in Iran will be stoned to death because she had sex outside of her marriage and also she is charged with killing her husbend, although there is really no proof she harmed her husbend.
Even with unemployment, an oil leak, horrible health care I am still glad I live here in the US and not there.

[Karen]

Again, this is an old story, not as old as the other one, but see this follow-up:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/07/08/iran.stoning/index.html

[Laura's Babies]

I'd be interested in what they do to the MEN who have committed adultry there..

[pomtzu]

I'd be interested in what they do to the MEN who have committed adultry there..

When they die, don't they get the promised 7 virgins??? :eek::D Might not be such a bad deal for them in the long run.....:p:D:D:D:D

[Marigold2]

I wonder when the sons these women give life to start to think of their moms as less then they are? When is mom's worth less? Does it start when they are 5 or 7 or 10? Can they mistreat mom and beat her at 12?

[moosmom]

I'm SO glad I live in the U.S. The cultures in other countries amaze me. Women have absolutely no rights and are treated like dirt. And they have to keep their entire bodies covered, exposing only their eyes when the temps are unbearable, walking BEHIND their husbands. Makes me glad I'm single.

[wombat2u2004]

I'd be interested in what they do to the MEN who have committed adultry there..

Absolutely nothing.

[caseysmom]

Absolutely nothing.

Actually men are stoned to death for the same thing.

[wombat2u2004]

Actually men are stoned to death for the same thing.

Source please.

[caseysmom]

Do your own homework. A little education about other parts of the world instead of ignorance is a good thing.

[wombat2u2004]

Do your own homework. A little education about other parts of the world instead of ignorance is a good thing.

So.....Marigold was right.

[wombat2u2004]

Stoning for Adultery - More a Women's Issue
By Kimia Sanati

TEHRAN, Dec 4, 2006 (IPS) - Currently, in Iran, there are nine women sentenced to death by stoning on charges of adultery, compared to two men for the same offence - highlighting the fact that this barbaric mode of execution is primarily a women's issue.

Whether these 11 unfortunate people can be saved from the brutality and humiliation involved depends on the success of a campaign, launched two months ago, by a group of lawyers and women's rights activists to have the stoning law abolished altogether from the Islamic Penal Code of this country.

Stoning is more a women's issue because, according to Islamic laws, a man can have four permanent wives and any number of temporary wives.

When caught in adulterous relationships, men can always claim to have been in a temporary marriage contract with the woman involved -provided she is not already married to someone else. Temporary marriage contracts, for hours or months or years, can be easily made between the partners. A married woman cannot escape stoning in the same way.

"The stoning law affects women more than men. So, as feminists, we naturally have to address it as well as other issues, such as polygamy, lack of right of divorce for women, forced marriages, domestic violence and poverty that greatly contribute to situations leading to stoning. We also hope that the campaign to abolish stoning can mobilise the women's movement," Mahboubeh Abbasgholizadeh, a feminist activist and advocacy group member of the ‘Campaign to Stop Stoning Forever', told IPS.

"The nature of the feminist movement in Iran is political because feminists have to target the laws, like (those on) polygamy and stoning, that sustain the patriarchal view of the society. They have to challenge the religious and political establishment that supports those laws," Abbasgholizadeh added.

Most women sentenced to stoning are those found guilty of being accomplices in the murders of their husbands. In a few cases married women have been found guilty of prostitution. If not married and found guilty of illicit sex, one is sentenced to lashes the first three times. A fourth occasion can lead to the death penalty as happened to Atefeh Sahaleh, a 16-year-old girl from Neka in Northern Iran who was hanged in August 2004.

Proving adultery is difficult under Islamic laws. For a stoning sentence to be passed, there must be four confessions on four separate occasions by the accused in front of a judge, or testimony by four eye witnesses, or ‘knowledge of the judge'. Confessions can be retracted at any stage by the accused. In most cases the knowledge of the judge serves as the basis for meting out the sentence.

Hajieh, 35, from north-western town of Jolfa, has served five years in prison for aiding the murder of her husband and has two more years to go before facing a stoning sentence. Out on bail now, she claims that the man who killed her husband, had attempted to rape her before the murder took place.

The man was sentenced to retribution-in-kind (qisas) for the killing. When interrogated by the police, he accused Hajieh of being an accomplice to the killing as well as having an affair with him. As an unmarried man, he received a hundred lashes for illicit sex.

Hajieh spoke only the Azeri language and no Farsi at the time of her arrest. She claims she did not understand the technical term used by the judge to refer to adultery so she accepted the charge and discovered the error only after the court ordered her to be stoned.

In 2004, Hajieh's stoning sentence was almost carried out. Invitations to the public to participate were distributed in her small town, but the execution was stopped in time when the executive judge realised the flaws in her case. Chief Justice Ayatollah Shahroudi then stayed the execution of the sentence. Hajieh has been tried once again and hopes to be acquitted of all charges soon.

Iran made a verbal pledge to the European Union to stop stoning more than a decade ago and there was a moratorium by the Chief Justice, in December 2002, on execution by stoning. The Chief Justice has himself on several occasions intervened to stay sentences from being executed.

Judiciary spokesman Mohammad Karimi Rad recently denied execution by stoning and said such sentences were passed by courts but were not carried out. But there are reports by eye witnesses of the secret stoning of Zahra Gholami in Tehran's Evin prison in 1999. News of the stoning of a man, Abbas, and a woman, Mahboubeh, in the north-eastern city of Mashad, in May, have also emerged recently.

According to news reports the Mashad stoning was carried out in a cemetery. The two were first ritually washed as for corpses being prepared for burial and then wrapped in shrouds from head to toe. The woman was buried in the ground up to her chest and the man up to his waist. A secretly congregated crowd pelted them with pebbles until they were dead.

"We are campaigning against stoning because of the brutality of the act. This kind of punishment is against human dignity. We are not against legal punishment for people committing crimes, but no human being in his right mind should take another person's life so ruthlessly," Abbasgholizadeh said.

Officially launched on Oct. 1, the campaign works through collecting signatures to support abolition of stoning. Campaigners say even if the Chief Justice intervenes in every single case, without a complete abolition, it will always be possible to reverse an order and carry out a sentence.

"Stoning is regarded as a highly sensitive issue by the regime and the religious and political establishment. There is so much reaction from the international community and human rights organisations to stoning news. This has made it taboo for journalists and news on the campaign is not given coverage by the press as they have been repeatedly warned to avoid it," a journalist told IPS.

In the face of such censorship, most publicity for the campaign is made through websites and blogs. Women's Field (meydane zanan), the campaign website in the Farsi and English langauges, was recently filtered by authorities. A change of address was the campaigners' response.

"Campaigners have a hard way ahead of them. The response from the society as a whole to the issue of stoning is not so unified. Activists are campaigning to abolish it but there are many, not only religious and political hardliners, who don't mind the law," a social observer who did not want to be named told IPS.

"In some areas, traditions hold very strong and the stigma against the family of an adulterous woman is compelling. There is little opposition to the idea of stoning in these places because people think a law like that may prevent adultery and stabilise family life. In some cases the families of the accused women might even take the matter into their own hands and try to wipe off the shame by killing the guilty even before the law takes up the matter. In men's case, if they are not involved with married women, there is much greater toleration," he said.

"Taking personal action is what the family of Shamameh (Malek) Ghorbani did last year in a village in Western Iran. The man was killed by her brother and husband, but the woman herself survived stab injuries - only to be sentenced to stoning in spite of her denial of adultery," the observer said. (END)

[caseysmom]

So.....Marigold was right.

Who is the cheerleader now??? You found one article...your very well rounded in your education now...back to the regular scheduled program.

[wombat2u2004]

Who is the cheerleader now???

Ummmmmm.....you are ????

[RICHARD]

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss176/citrusheights/females/USC.jpg

[wombat2u2004]

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss176/citrusheights/females/USC.jpg

Nice veges. :p:p

[popcornbird]

A woman who has committed adultry and has KILLED her husband....if these accusations are TRUE, then truly, I do not see any injustice in her fate. If these accusations are NOT true, and people have invented lies against her, then it is truly tragic and the world needs to step up for her.

But I repeat, if she had truly committed adultry and murder, then she deserves punishment.

As for whether this punishment applies only to women, I don't know how things are done in Iran, but if things are done according to the religious perspective, according to the laws of Islam, then these are the rules that follow.

Adultry, committed by either a MAN or a WOMAN, has the E-X-A-C-T same punishment.

The government CANNOT punish anyone for adultry unless they have FOUR witnesses first. Tell me how hard it is to find four people who have WITNESSED someone committing this act. Its HARD...most people do this in private, and just this ruling in itself would prevent punishment for the majority of cases.

And in the end, yes, the punishment is stoning.

This is the religious ruling, and not necessarily what countries do, but it is what they should be doing if this is the law that they follow.

And just as a side note...the laws of Christianity also call for the death of a person who commits adultry.

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."


To Moosmom:

Although I agree that in SOME countries, women are 'forced' to cover up, this is NOT the case in the majority of places where women cover. Women covering has nothing to do with cruelty. It has nothing to do with men making them cover. Muslim women, here in the US cover, while living under the same laws as you do.

Why do we cover up? It is for our dignity. We consider our bodies to be sacred and not an open market for men with bad intentions to feast their eyes on. How many sex offenders are out there in this country? How many times to we hear of the terrible crimes they commit against girls and young women in the news. What lures them to these women? There are many such people out there in this world, and the last thing I would want to do is expose myself to them while I am going about my business. Women in the West go out dressing SEXY. For who?..., I wonder. Is it to attract every single man on the streets? Now don't even try to tell me men don't get attracted when they see a beautiful women walking around nearly naked.

So that, my friend, is why we cover. It is our choice, and no one has the right to condemn someone else's choice in their clothing and attire. We all choose what we wear. The covering of the face is optional, which I, by the way, don't do, but I am otherwise covered head to toe when I go out of my house, and I love it, and would never go out without it. Don't judge others with ignorance. Just keep in mind that while you are judging others for covering their bodies and imagining they are oppressed, those others might be judging you and finding it unbelievable when they see how much some women show to every other person on the streets. Some people find THAT to be incredible degrading of oneself.

As to walking behind their husbands, I have been to Eastern countries. Have yet to meet anyone who follows such a thing. Sometimes the husband is fast and ends up in front of his wife, sometimes vice versa, but most of the time, I have only seen couples in all parts of the world, walking side by side, many times hand in hand. Again, don't judge blindly. Have you ever BEEN to other countries?

[Lady's Human]

And just as a side note...the laws of Christianity also call for the death of a person who commits adultry.

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."




PCB: Talmudic law and Christian law are not the same thing.

You're quoting one and calling it the other.

John 8:7


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

The last person I know who had no sin was strung up on a cross about 2000 years ago.

[Lady's Human]

This is the religious ruling, and not necessarily what countries do, but it is what they should be doing if this is the law that they follow.

Which is why I'm extremely thankful I don't live in a theocracy, despite what people think the government of the US is.

Stoning is an extremely barbaric punishment, and should not be practiced.

Sharia law should never be the law of the land.

[wombat2u2004]

To Moosmom:

Although I agree that in SOME countries, women are 'forced' to cover up, this is NOT the case in the majority of places where women cover. Women covering has nothing to do with cruelty. It has nothing to do with men making them cover. Muslim women, here in the US cover, while living under the same laws as you do.

Why do we cover up? It is for our dignity. We consider our bodies to be sacred and not an open market for men with bad intentions to feast their eyes on. How many sex offenders are out there in this country? How many times to we hear of the terrible crimes they commit against girls and young women in the news. What lures them to these women? There are many such people out there in this world, and the last thing I would want to do is expose myself to them while I am going about my business. Women in the West go out dressing SEXY. For who?..., I wonder. Is it to attract every single man on the streets? Now don't even try to tell me men don't get attracted when they see a beautiful women walking around nearly naked.

So that, my friend, is why we cover. It is our choice, and no one has the right to condemn someone else's choice in their clothing and attire. We all choose what we wear. The covering of the face is optional, which I, by the way, don't do, but I am otherwise covered head to toe when I go out of my house, and I love it, and would never go out without it. Don't judge others with ignorance. Just keep in mind that while you are judging others for covering their bodies and imagining they are oppressed, those others might be judging you and finding it unbelievable when they see how much some women show to every other person on the streets. Some people find THAT to be incredible degrading of oneself.

As to walking behind their husbands, I have been to Eastern countries. Have yet to meet anyone who follows such a thing. Sometimes the husband is fast and ends up in front of his wife, sometimes vice versa, but most of the time, I have only seen couples in all parts of the world, walking side by side, many times hand in hand. Again, don't judge blindly. Have you ever BEEN to other countries?

Thousands of Iranian women have been cautioned over their poor Islamic dress this week and several hundred arrested in the capital Tehran in the most fierce crackdown on what's known as "bad hijab" for more than a decade.
It is the talk of the town. The latest police crackdown on Islamic dress has angered many Iranians - male, female, young and old.


But Iranian TV has reported that an opinion poll conducted in Tehran found 86% of people were in favour of the crackdown - a statistic that is surprising given the strength of feeling against this move.

Police cars are stationed outside major shopping centres in Tehran.

They are stopping pedestrians and even cars - warning female drivers not to show any hair - and impounding the vehicles and arresting the women if they argue back.

Middle-aged women, foreign tourists and journalists have all been harassed, not just the young and fashionably dressed.

Individual choice

Overnight the standard of what is acceptable dress has slipped back.


I want the whole world to know that they oppress us and all we can do is put up with it

Tofiq, 15

Hard-won freedoms - like the right to wear a colourful headscarf - have been snatched away.

It may sound trivial but Iranian women have found ways of expressing their individuality and returning to drab colours like black, grey and dark blue is not something they will accept easily.

"If we want to do something we will do it anyway, all this is total nonsense," says a young girl, heavily made up and dressed up.

She believes Islamic dress should be something personal - whether you're swathed in a black chador or dressed in what she calls "more normal clothes".

Interestingly many women who choose to wear the all enveloping chador agree - saying it's a personal choice and shouldn't be forced on people.

"This year is much worse than before because the newspapers and the TV have given the issue a lot of coverage compared to last year; it wasn't this bad before," says Shabnam who's out shopping with her friend.

Permission denied

At the start of every summer the police say they will enforce the Islamic dress code, but this year has been unusually harsh.

Thousands of women have been cautioned by police over their dress, some have been obliged to sign statements that they will do better in the future, and some face court cases against them.


Even shop mannequins considered "too revealing" are dealt with

Though the authorities want coverage internally to scare women - they don't want the story broadcast abroad.

The BBC's cameraman was detained when he tried to film the police at work and the government denied us permission to go on patrol with the police.

"Really we don't have any security," complains Shabam's friend Leyla.

"Since we came out this morning many people we met have continuously warned us to be careful about our headscarves and to wear them further forward because they are arresting women who are dressed like this," she says.

Boutique owners are furious. Some shops have been sealed - others warned not to sell tight revealing clothing.

One shopkeeper selling evening dresses told us the moral police had ordered him to saw off the breasts of his mannequins because they were too revealing.

He said he wasn't the only shop to receive this strange instruction.

Respect

There's even been less traffic on the streets because some women are not venturing out - fearful they will be harassed.

And it's not even safe in a car. Taxi agencies have received a circular warning them not to carry a "bad hijabi".

"They have said we shouldn't carry passengers who wear bad Islamic dress and if we do we have to warn them to respect the Islamic dress code even inside the car," said one taxi driver.

And it's not just women who are being targeted this year.

Young men are being cautioned for wearing short sleeved shirts or for their hairstyles.

Morad - a hairdresser whose gelled hair is made to stand straight up - says it's necessary for him to look like this to attract customers.

"These last few days I don't dare walk down the main roads looking like this case I get arrested," he says.

"I use the side streets and alleys."

Morad is scared because his friends have told him they've seen the police seize young men and forcibly cut their hair if it's too long.

Fifteen-year-old Tofiq who'd also gelled his hair to stand on end said he too was afraid but he wasn't going to change.

"I want the whole world to know that they oppress us and all we can do is put up with it," he said.

Some parents have complained that harassing the young over their clothing will only push them to leave the country.

But one MP has said those Iranians who cannot cope with Islamic laws should leave.

Some commentators have suggested that the government is conducting this crackdown to distract attention from the rising cost of living in Iran and increasing tension with the international community over the nuclear issue.

If so, it's a strategy that risks alienating people who've got used to years of relative social freedom and do not want to return to the early days of the revolution when dress rules were much more tightly enforced.

[Lady's Human]

The full covering has nothing to do with respect for women, it has everything to do with controlling women.

How, praytell, can you justify covering yourself so men don't look at you?

Men aren't supposed to control themselves?

That tells me all the burden of committing a sin is on the woman, and none on the male.

Your explanation of this is a codification of the "she had it coming" defense in a rape trial.

[wombat2u2004]

The full covering has nothing to do with respect for women, it has everything to do with controlling women.

Yup.

[caseysmom]

I have been to Iran and the majority of the women and men do not like the laws, especially the younger generation. Men are expected to wear long sleeves but women do indeed take the brunt of the chauvinistic laws.

As far as seeing nothing wrong with her fate if the accusations are true. Do you believe she should receive a fair trial by her peers? Do you think stoning is not barbaric?

It is quite possible to dress modestly without a full hijab.

PCB, you say nobody has the right to condemn you for how you dress but you are being very comndemning of how "women in the west" dress. Trust me there are modest women here.

I do have to agree with you about women walking behind men, never have witnessed that although a Japanese friend of mine told me her mother did that with her Father and brothers.

[smokey the elder]

They must have a very low crime rate in Iran if the cops have all this time to spend on being the fashion police. .

I think both sides of the Muslim dress code debate have valid points. Clearly, Popcornbird is in favor of it and it's her choice. But the dress code issue seems to be kind of missing the whole point, IMO. To me it's superficial, and maybe less emphasis should be placed on it and more on the five pillars of Islam.

[Catty1]

LH - I agree with your distinction between Talmudic law and Christian law.

It seems, though, that many Christians do refer to 'Old Testament' quotes to justify quashing the rights of homosexuals and other groups.

I am no scholar, but I don't recall Christ being quoted as saying there was anything wrong with sex. As for adultery, he did use that 'sinless can cast the first stone'.

However, I think the NT came out against divorce, so folks may want to revert to Moses on that one.

[Lady's Human]

To quote a Rabbi who was having a discussion with a catholic friend in a greek restaurant run by an Egyptian Moslem with a hispanic cook:

What you call the Old Testament is MY book. Stay outta there, you'll get your feelings hurt!

[Karen]

I do have to agree with you about women walking behind men, never have witnessed that although a Japanese friend of mine told me her mother did that with her Father and brothers.

I tend to walk behind Paul - he has really long legs, and if we both walk at a "normal speed" he can easily leave me in the dust! It has nothing to do with being submissive, if he's walking quickly for him, I literally have to jog to keep up!

[caseysmom]

Well if anyone saw me and my husband they might see the same thing since I walk with a limp now I am pretty slow...my daughter on crutches beats me!

[carole]

I for one cannot condone stoning anyone to death for adultery, it is barbaric and bizarre, I don't care what anyone say's it is inhumane IMO.

I read that men who do get stoned to death are buried up to their waist whereas women are buried up to their neck,

I certainly do not think anyone should committ adultery by any means, but for goodness sake the punishment should fit the crime, and that is way over the top.

I do respect other's cultures, but this is goes way beyond that, and it needs to be stopped end of.

Yes i am thankful i too live in a country that gives women rights just like men, and freedom of speech and choice,and does not condone inhumane practices.

[lizbud]

I do respect other's cultures, but this is goes way beyond that, and it needs to be stopped end of.





I cannot say that I respect other country's culture or customs when they
treat women this way. It is wrong, wrong, wrong. It cannot be defended
by Religion, Culture or Custom.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-27/afghan-girl-mutilated-by-in-laws-travels-to-us-for-surgery/?cid=hp:originalslist1

[Catty1]

Iran mother facing stoning pleads to see children

Sat Jul 31, 12:49 AM

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100731/world/iran_execution_stoning

LONDON (AFP) - An Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery in Iran pleaded to be allowed to hug her children, in a letter attributed to her released by human rights activists in London on Saturday.

http://www.ldjackson.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Sakineh.jpg

Sakineh Mohammadi-Ashtiani, a 43-year-old mother of two, was given the sentence after being found guilty.

It sparked an outcry in Western countries, and was temporarily halted earlier this month by Iranian judiciary chief Sadeq Larijani.

"I'm Sakineh Mohammadi-Ashtiani. From Tabriz Prison I thank all those who are thinking of me," said the letter, translated from Farsi into English and released by the International Committee against Stoning.

The message was relayed in a telephone conversation, a committee spokeswoman told AFP, without going into further details.

"I am now quiet and sad because a part of my heart is frozen," it said.

"The day I was flogged in front of (my son) Sajjad, I was crushed and my dignity and heart were broken.

"The day I was given the stoning sentence, it was as if I fell into a deep hole and I lost consciousness.

"Many nights, before sleeping, I think to myself how can anybody be prepared to throw stones at me; to aim at my face and hands? Why?

"I'm afraid of dying. Help me stay alive and hug my children."

Mohammadi-Ashtiani was convicted on May 15, 2006 of having an "illicit relationship" with two men, according to her lawyer and London-based human rights watchdog Amnesty International.

Amnesty said she received 99 lashes as per her sentence but was subsequently accused of "adultery while being married" in September 2006 during the trial of a man accused of murdering her husband.

Slide show here - narrator wrote the 'poem' also. It's on YouTube, but one needs to sign in.
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://dissentingvoices.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/soraya.jpg&imgrefurl=http://dissentingvoices.org/&usg=__VnuZa9vhrdZuRtorY9K7fG6VM60=&h=276&w=414&sz=21&hl=en&start=8&sig2=gD3Jel9qo9T8G8cA_uRr4g&itbs=1&tbnid=EguLNUEv7So0OM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMohammadi%2BAshtiani%26hl%3Den%26gbv% 3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=6l9UTNGFCYSMnQfI-f3zAg

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFbuxJieyFxg

ETA: I read that only small stones are allowed, as larger ones might cause "instant death".

[RICHARD]

One shopkeeper selling evening dresses told us the moral police had ordered him to saw off the breasts of his mannequins because they were too revealing.



Every once in a while I see something that is so blatantly stupid I have ask, "why do people think this way?"

The above statement is probably the funniest thing I have read in a long, long time.


---------------

And I have to laugh at the morons who call for multiple wifes in a marriage.

Those dudes must be whipped, but then again? If you can break down a woman to accept the fact that you are sleeping around you aren't a man.

You are a frigging cult leader.

And there are way too many religions and too many men that are FWs on the planet.


Women, rise up and don't be anyone's biatch.


Do not question authority, question the 'god' that's putting those stupid ideas in men's heads.

[RICHARD]

ETA: I read that only small stones are allowed, as larger ones might cause "instant death".


Geez, what a sporting idea. No big rocks.

---------------------------------

I saw an article about a asteroid hitting the earth.

Hopefully, it will land with a little precision and take out the morons that condone this kinda shiat.

Like Blue would say....

Arsehats.;)

[Randi]

Without thinking too much about it, my immediate reaction to this is that women and men should have the same punishment for whichever crime they commit - and certainly not a death sentence or being stoned or whipped for adultery! Geeesh! :eek: That problem they should sort out in between themselves.

Concerning women being covered, I believe most do it volunteringly, but I do find it irritating. It would be nice to be able to see who you talk to. The issue has been up here also, and one of the questions has been what to do about people passing through the pasport control in airports, and when you have a buspass - the driver can’t see if it’s the right person on the picture, so people can cheat.

[blue]

Like Blue would say....

Arsehats.;)

I was thinking A**Clowns or D**chebags, but Arsehat works well.

[RICHARD]

I was thinking A**Clowns or D**chebags, but Arsehat works well.


LOL,

Arsehattery too?:D;)

[Marigold2]

Totally agree. Talk about over reacting Geez.
Just shows what low self-esteem the men over there have.
Maybe her husbend was bad in bed, maybe his feet stunk, maybe he had bad breath, or lots of gas.

I for one cannot condone stoning anyone to death for adultery, it is barbaric and bizarre, I don't care what anyone say's it is inhumane IMO.

I read that men who do get stoned to death are buried up to their waist whereas women are buried up to their neck,

I certainly do not think anyone should committ adultery by any means, but for goodness sake the punishment should fit the crime, and that is way over the top.

I do respect other's cultures, but this is goes way beyond that, and it needs to be stopped end of.

Yes i am thankful i too live in a country that gives women rights just like men, and freedom of speech and choice,and does not condone inhumane practices.

[carole]

Lizbud just to clarify that is what i mean't exactly, i respect other peoples cultures but when it come to something like that i certainly do not,hence my statement that goes way beyond just that.

[wombat2u2004]

Without thinking too much about it, my immediate reaction to this is that women and men should have the same punishment for whichever crime they commit.

I agree.
But we have already been enlightened on the EQUALITY Islamic Laws by one of our members here who has been there (so therefore must know more than us all).
I think we can all say the laws in the Middle East are equal for both male and female, but are in practice are actually quite one sided, and favour the men.

[sana]

The full covering has nothing to do with respect for women, it has everything to do with controlling women.

How, praytell, can you justify covering yourself so men don't look at you?

Men aren't supposed to control themselves?

That tells me all the burden of committing a sin is on the woman, and none on the male.

Your explanation of this is a codification of the "she had it coming" defense in a rape trial.
According to Islamic rules, men's covering part is that they have their sights lowered so this is their part of the coverage, their eyes are to be lowered and women are to cover their bodies.

[wombat2u2004]

According to Islamic rules, men's covering part is that they have their sights lowered so this is their part of the coverage, their eyes are to be lowered and women are to cover their bodies.

But do the men abide by those rules ????

[sana]

People who obey their religion do that, government of Iraq are no muslims they are just traitors to Islam. Good muslims as I have seen, abide by the rules of the mosques. If you go and look at the people going in mosques, you'll see their sights are lowered.

[wombat2u2004]

People who obey their religion do that, government of Iraq are no muslims they are just traitors to Islam. Good muslims as I have seen, abide by the rules of the mosques. If you go and look at the people going in mosques, you'll see their sights are lowered.

Ok. So who enforces the rules of the women to dress as they do ???
Their respect for their religion ??? Or do the men enforce it ????

[wombat2u2004]

Hmmmmm....didn't think I'd get an answer to that.

[sana]

sorry for not replying, actually my user CP didn't show this thread don't know why so I didn't know that you sent a post. Actually as I have seen men don't enforce. Men advice, as usually men are nice in Islam, they advice or tell the women that they have to do it. Islam says for women to dress that way so they have to and so women usually listen on the first time.

[Lady's Human]

So, the previous government of Iraq were perfect muslims?


Sorry, too much propaganda. The ISI teaches you well.

[popcornbird]

PCB: Talmudic law and Christian law are not the same thing.

You're quoting one and calling it the other.

John 8:7


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

The last person I know who had no sin was strung up on a cross about 2000 years ago.

Actually, I am not quoting one and calling it the other. As far as I'm concerned, if you believe in the New Testament, you should believe in the laws of the Old Testament. Didn't Jesus say this?:

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

As far as I'm concerned, the Law in the Old Testament is pretty severe, and Jesus, in the New Testament, is saying that he did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

For the sake of argument, even IF you do not believe that, then why are you so quick to condemn Islamic rulings, while completely ignoring Jewish ones?? Do you not see any harsh punishments in the Jewish script?

Regardless, about what Sana is saying...

If any of you have been to any Muslim country, be it Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, whatever...you would know that women covering is not enforced by law and there are tons of women out there who go out in the same way as you see women going out here. It is the media that makes you think every woman in the Middle East is forced to cover up, beaten if she doesn't, and as a Muslim who knows and has seen both the West and the East, I know that is nothing but a bunch of BS. I have relatives in Muslim countries who are more into fashion than the typical American girl, who don't cover at all, and have never been harmed. Women who cover do it by their own choice, as I do. Likewise, men are required by religious law to lower their gaze and not 'stare at' women. Just as covering is not enforced in most countries, lowering the gaze is not enforced in most countries. Religious men do it by their own choice, and yes, they do practice it. I know MANY men, that whenever a group of girls pass in front of them, they look down and avoid staring.

Of course there are good and bad people everywhere, in every culture, and there are some men who are cruel and beat their women, but it is by no means the norm, and as far as I'm concerned, I cannot say I personally know of even one 'abusive/beating' husband. I grew up with a Muslim father who has done nothing but loved us and cared for us our whole lives, played games with us, laughed with us. He is a loving and devoted husband to my mother, and has been for over 35 years. I have a Muslim husband who loves me more than anything and in our nearly 5 years of marriage, has never even scolded me in anger. Perhaps to your surprise, more women in the US convert to Islam than men. When asked why, they say they love how women are respected in the religion. Something to ponder over. A good friend of my husband who became a Muslim said he did so after researching the religion...but what lured him into it was witnessing several Muslim guys walking with their sister at a grocery store, and making sure she didn't have the burden of carrying anything.

Believe your stereotypes as much as you want. Think whatever you want. At the end of the day, you are wrong when you think wrong of others with no basis for your judgement other than the media. I have a dear friend who is a lawyer that has dealt with many cases of domestic abuse (here in the US). She has told me that some cases she comes across are so terrible she comes home in tears, wondering how anyone can do that to their own family. Again, here in the US. Domestic abuse happens everywhere. It is sad. It is terrible. It should never happen. But it happens everywhere, in the East, in the West...everywhere. There will always be some bad people out there, sadly.

Caseysmom, I don't need to trust you when you say there are modest people here. I know there are, and have many friends who are quite modest, and are not Muslim...I'm a Californian, as you are, and I know there are both modest and not so modest people here. I wasn't truely 'criticizing' the 'other side', but I was trying to show how just as they think they can judge others, others might be judging them in the same way for the things they do, and the way they dress.

[Bonny]

popcornbird, Thank you for sharing your culture. You come from a loving family. I have some questions? You have your religion Islam & then their is your culture. If a man of Islam walked by a women of another culture would he lower his eyes or look away? Do women also have to lower their eyes & look away when they see an Islamic a man or men or men of another culture? If that is the case how do you get to meet someone of the opposite sex? Are marriages prearranged by family & is that part of the Islamic religion or culture or both if so. Do the men, women, & children get to worship in the same area in a Mosque? Do you & can you marry outside your religion Islam if you should wish to? Are the men the head of the household like bringing home the wages, or can it be shared where the wife works also? Are there restrictions on careers for men or women that would interfere with the Islamic religion? All these questions but like you said what we hear is what the media puts out there.

[Lady's Human]

PCB, with all due respect, yes, you are.

The New Testament is built on the foundation of the Old Testament, but does not require the Christians convert to Judaism to be Christian.

You cannot quote selected passages of scripture out of context and still get the same meaning. We could debate for ages about this, but I've never seen a church with two sets of dishes to cook a dinner with, and have never seen a church where a ham dinner was out of place.

Tell ya what, I won't quote the Koran, due to contextual issues, you don't quote the bible to me. It's not going to get you anywhere, as for every verse that SEEMS to demand the Old Testament law be followed, I can come up with at least one that doesn't demand it.

As to Muslim countries not requiring females dress a certain way by law? WRONG!

The US has run into many, many diplomatic issues because of US Military uniforms and the fact that we make no distinction between men and women in the service.

[RICHARD]

The US has run into many, many diplomatic issues because of US Military uniforms and the fact that we make no distinction between men and women in the service.

I too fear a woman trained to shoot better than I do.


-----------

Stoned to death, no, but one time I was soooo drunk? I thought I was going to die.

------------

What is it with the Wild and Crazy Sharia Law?

10 lashes and a fine for wearing pants? Does that go on a woman's permanent record.

------------

Holy Mole,

That's one of the Mexican Patron Saints-


Beating up people for wearing pants.

You heard about the woman who was given 20 lashes?

She didn't listen the FIRST time.:eek::rolleyes::o

[wombat2u2004]

Actually as I have seen men don't enforce. Men advice, as usually men are nice in Islam, they advice or tell the women that they have to do it. Islam says for women to dress that way so they have to and so women usually listen on the first time.

And if the women don't comply ?????
What happens then ????
For instance.......last week I seen a Muslim couple shopping.
She was dressed in a black robe with just a little slit for her eyes to look out of, and nowhere else was any skin to be seen, her husband on the other hand was dressed in shorts, T-shirt and sandals....he was obviously more comfortable than she was.
So tell me Sana, your point of view.......what would the husband do IF his wife decided not to wear that Burqua, and go shopping dressed in a pair of shorts, a T-shirt and a pair of sandals ????

[sana]

I don't know why the man was wearing that outfit maybe his wife was more Islamic and religious than him and if my husband ever wore that I'd leave him and go off to my mother's place and call him and tell him that SORRY if he keeps wearing that dress I am not going over to his house. I have a Muslim class fellow who's parents are muslims but not as Islamic as her. She wears Burqa and the covering veil but her mother doesn't. If women don't comply, some husbands tell them to and usually they listen and if women don't comply and nobody stops them, their parents would be caught in the Hereafter for not telling her daughter the right ways. And if her parents did tell and she didn't listen, on the Last Day, she would be caught for not wearing the Burqa and veil.
A little thing to tell you. There is a fact that in animal's males are beautiful than the females and in humans women are beautiful than the males, so God said that He made women prettier than the men so they should hide their beauty like as if their beauty is a valuable and priceless gem. Anybody would want to keep their beautiful gem safe so a woman's beauty is a gem that she should hide and save. That is why Burqa was made compulsory on women. Some people say that covering face is compulsory and some say no it isn't. Some women choose to cover their face while the other, they just cover their head and body.

[Lady's Human]

You do realize that the Hajib and the Burqa are both relics of cultures which predate Islam by hundreds of years?

[sana]

I don't understand what you mean. Could you please explain

[Lady's Human]

The Burqa predates Mohammed by hundreds if not thousands of years. It was adopted by Islam, not created for Islam.

[Lady's Human]

By the way, nice comparison that really shows how much respect there is for women in your culture, Sana.

A gem is an inanimate object put on display.

My wife is an intelligent being, with her own thoughts and motivations.

I don't worry about someone wanting to steal her, because we trust each other. I can understand the Burqa in a culture where men are not expected to show any self control, but this is the 21st century, not the 6th.

[wombat2u2004]

I don't know why the man was wearing that outfit maybe his wife was more Islamic and religious than him and if my husband ever wore that I'd leave him and go off to my mother's place and call him and tell him that SORRY if he keeps wearing that dress I am not going over to his house. I have a Muslim class fellow who's parents are muslims but not as Islamic as her. She wears Burqa and the covering veil but her mother doesn't. If women don't comply, some husbands tell them to and usually they listen and if women don't comply and nobody stops them, their parents would be caught in the Hereafter for not telling her daughter the right ways. And if her parents did tell and she didn't listen, on the Last Day, she would be caught for not wearing the Burqa and veil.
A little thing to tell you. There is a fact that in animal's males are beautiful than the females and in humans women are beautiful than the males, so God said that He made women prettier than the men so they should hide their beauty like as if their beauty is a valuable and priceless gem. Anybody would want to keep their beautiful gem safe so a woman's beauty is a gem that she should hide and save. That is why Burqa was made compulsory on women. Some people say that covering face is compulsory and some say no it isn't. Some women choose to cover their face while the other, they just cover their head and body.

I'm confused Sana. You speak of all of this freedom of dress that you all have but.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgXgpngHf60

[wombat2u2004]

Sana.......can I also have your excuse....sorry....your thoughts on this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVIopgK0XGE&feature=related

[sana]

By the way, nice comparison that really shows how much respect there is for women in your culture, Sana.

A gem is an inanimate object put on display.

My wife is an intelligent being, with her own thoughts and motivations.

I don't worry about someone wanting to steal her, because we trust each other. I can understand the Burqa in a culture where men are not expected to show any self control, but this is the 21st century, not the 6th.

Hey, women in Islam don't mind wearing this Burqa and as God says, Islam will never end. That is why many women don't leave Burqa because they knoe that the Last Prophet told them to wear Burqa cover their bodies and men are to wear clothes which are above the ankles and below the knees. Men have certain types of clothes to wear too. Not only women. I am a girl so I mostly know about girls dresses. I know some stuff about men's clothes. The ankle above pants and knee below and that they shouldn't wear silk. That's a little I know.

[Lady's Human]

WOmen in Islam don't mind wearing Burqas?

Then why, praytell, all the uproar in Saudi Arabia when US forces were stationed there? Part of it was Saudi women complaining that they should be able to dress as they wanted.

It's not freewill when the penalty for not wearing a Burqa is caning, stoning, or some other Sharia law penalty.

Again, it's the 21st century, not the 6th. Time to move on past barbarism.

[Miss Z]

It is a little unfair, I think, to point so much at Islam for advising women to cover their bodies, when many other cultures do the same. We don't have so much problem with the Amish, for example. They too are also advised to dress modestly from text lifted directly from the Bible.

[sana]

And by the way when do Christian nuns wear that head stuff. You can't see their hair can you so wombat you don't need to be so picky in a religion that you don't even believe in. Just do your own religion stuff. And to give you a point. If you are a Jew then you should know that many of you ancestors were punished by God after many mercies. God forgave them and forgave them then he punished them. Then the next generation had the same thing happened with them. And if you are a Christian then you should know that your priests don't even know the proper meaning and rules of Trinity. If you ever ask then they'll say something like child God knows because they don't know what it means and so they will try to make a fool out of you and tell you something like Jesus was a holy man and stuff. They don't know what Trinity is! OMG! Meaning you should know your religion.

[sana]

WOmen in Islam don't mind wearing Burqas?

Then why, praytell, all the uproar in Saudi Arabia when US forces were stationed there? Part of it was Saudi women complaining that they should be able to dress as they wanted.

It's not freewill when the penalty for not wearing a Burqa is caning, stoning, or some other Sharia law penalty.

Again, it's the 21st century, not the 6th. Time to move on past barbarism.

Listen, those women aren't even proper muslims! I bet they hear music behind other muslims backs. And this culture is not barbarism. We loved Muhammad and its best you tried to look at the flaws of your own religion. Read my last post and you'll see what is wrong in your religion. Its known worldwide. Read it and stop talking about the flaws (there is no flaw in Islam and these are flaws you think but we don't because we know our religion) of Islam. Islam is flawless. And I don't care what you think of it. I think my religion is the greatest and it will never perish I can promise you that!

[RICHARD]

Nuns wear a habit by choice.

Some orders even allow nuns to wear regular clothes.

I have never heard of a nun being beat for not wearing a habit.:eek::confused:

[sana]

And those who beat girls for wearing Western dresses are right because if the girl is a Muslim she has to act like one. And so she should wear Islamic dresses.

[Lady's Human]

Yeah, but I've heard of Nuns being beaten for having bad habits.......


Okay, bad attempt at a pun. :p


Sana, the pastors I've spoken to are very straightforward on the meaning of the trinity, however, as Islam makes a left turn from the Judeo-Christian bible I can understand where your differences lie.

On another point, you've now established that Iraqis are traitors to Islam, Saudis aren't proper Muslims.........Who is? Surely it's not the Pakistani government who sponsor Muslim on Muslim violence through the ISI..........

[RICHARD]

And those who beat girls for wearing Western dresses are right because if the girl is a Muslim she has to act like one. And so she should wear Islamic dresses.

I do have a problem with people being BEATEN, do you think that if the woman was asked nicely to participate in that tradition, she may want to show her repect and devotion by wearing the required garments????

LH,

Sister Mary Torquemada may still be alive.......

watch your butt.

[Lady's Human]

Hey Torquemada

What do you say



I just got back from the auto-da-fé ,

auto-da-fé What’s the auto-da-fé?

It’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway

(Ba da bum!)

[sana]

Who the hell is that sister whatever. Oh and btw. I'm sure the girls beaten for wearing western disgust were giving a chance or told before to wear Islamic dresses. And you don't know Islam so keep that black hole on your face shut.:p

[Lady's Human]

Now there's a nice pleasant comment. :rolleyes:

[sana]

thank you

[RICHARD]

Who the hell is that sister whatever. Oh and btw. I'm sure the girls beaten for wearing western disgust were giving a chance or told before to wear Islamic dresses. And you don't know Islam so keep that black hole on your face shut.:p

It's a joke, Torquemada was a person who lived in the Middle Ages who tortured and killed many people under the guise of religion. Catholic nuns are/were notorious for beating children.

So, Do you believe that women should be beaten for wearing Western Clothes?

And should I be able to beat the crap out of you if My Religion says it o.k.?:eek::(:o

[wombat2u2004]

girls beaten for wearing western disgust

And there we have it.
Islam respect and tolerance for other cultures.
That quote of yours pretty well nutshells it....doesn't it ???

[blue]

And there we have it.
Islam respect and tolerance for other cultures.
That quote of yours pretty well nutshells it....doesn't it ???

Like Australia respects and tolerates other cultures. Of course I basing my opinion of Australians on you.

[wombat2u2004]

And you don't know Islam

And I for one don't want to know about Islam.
After all, why should a mere westerner like myself deserve such a flawless religion[edited]????

Nawwwww.....I think I'll stay the way I am.....I'll leave it up to you lot to hijack planes and kill innocent civilians and bomb marketplaces and hide behind their women and marry 5 year olds......that's what flawless religions are made of.

[sana]

DUMBO!! Check again! Muslims don't do this. The 5 yr old getting married are all Hindus and Sikhs. Killing ppl, All american butts, they do this and blame muslims. Killing civilians, hijacking planes all America and their dirty butts, you're just like one of them. And if you are calling the Last Prophet pedophile, then May death come to you as soon as possible. May Allah's wrath be upon you. Ameen! Insha Allah it will happen soon.

[wombat2u2004]

Like Australia respects and tolerates other cultures. Of course I basing my opinion of Australians on you.

Yes, of course you may base it on me Blue. I don't mind it at all.
Australians do respect and tolerate other cultures, but I think you will find that Australians treat people exactly the same as they are treated in turn.
For instance, if you look down upon me....I'm going to look down on you...simple.
If you choose to be arrogant toward me, then I'll return it straight back at ya.

[wombat2u2004]

DUMBO!! Check again! Muslims don't do this. The 5 yr old getting married are all Hindus and Sikhs. Killing ppl, All american butts, they do this and blame muslims. Killing civilians, hijacking planes all America and their dirty butts, you're just like one of them. And if you are calling the Last Prophet pedophile, then May death come to you as soon as possible. May Allah's wrath be upon you. Ameen! Insha Allah it will happen soon.

OMG....I'm dead meat.
But.......can I be halal for the sake of the worms that will eat me ????

[wombat2u2004]

DUMBO!! Check again! Muslims don't do this. The 5 yr old getting married are all Hindus and Sikhs.

Wanna bet ????

[sana]

I don't bet, silly its not allowed in Islam.

[blue]

Yes, of course you may base it on me Blue. I don't mind it at all.
Australians do respect and tolerate other cultures, but I think you will find that Australians treat people exactly the same as they are treated in turn.
For instance, if you look down upon me....I'm going to look down on you...simple.
If you choose to be arrogant toward me, then I'll return it straight back at ya.

Im an a$$hole. Im comfortable with that. Im not comfortable with representing Americans as a whole because I am an a$$hole. You seem to enjoy being an a$$hole and representing your country as a country of a$$holes. You dont seem to tolerate any culture other your own if you are willing to enact laws that restrict other cultures.

[wombat2u2004]

Im an a$$hole. Im comfortable with that. Im not comfortable with representing Americans as a whole because I am an a$$hole. You seem to enjoy being an a$$hole and representing your country as a country of a$$holes. You dont seem to tolerate any culture other your own if you are willing to enact laws that restrict other cultures.

Hey blue......you got your point of view, I have mine.
And yes, we will restrict certain cultural practices of immigrants if they choose to live here......that's not us being a$$holes.....that's just using common sense (we still have that ability).
After all, we are their host country, and they take an oath before becoming citizens to abide by our laws....is that unreasonable ??? Culturally unacceptable ???
And yeah....I'd say you would be comfortable being an a$$hole. Whatever makes you happy in your comfort zone.
Anyway blue.....if you are unhappy with what I post, then the simple answer is to put me on ignore..........and if you wish to have a shot at me personally, then lets take it privately on PM....ok big fella ????

[wombat2u2004]

I don't bet, silly its not allowed in Islam.

Ahhhhhhh.....the cop out.

[Lady's Human]

Sana, the internet has a whole wealth of information about things.

Why don't you go cross check the "facts" you're being spoon fed by the imams in the Madrassa?

Might open your mind a touch............You're living in a 16th century culture practicing a 7th century religion. Newsflash.....it's 2010.

[pomtzu]

Sana - I was really getting irritated reading your posts - so harsh and not even credible. Then I decided to check your profile, and was shocked to see that you are only 13 yrs old. :eek: You have a whole lot of learning to do. Perhaps you should take a break from here for a few years, and then come back when you have more knowledge and maturity.

[RICHARD]

DUMBO!! Check again! Muslims don't do this. The 5 yr old getting married are all Hindus and Sikhs. Killing ppl, All american butts, they do this and blame muslims. Killing civilians, hijacking planes all America and their dirty butts, you're just like one of them. And if you are calling the Last Prophet pedophile, then May death come to you as soon as possible. May Allah's wrath be upon you. Ameen! Insha Allah it will happen soon.

I think you are not the shining example that you god would want you to be.
How can you look in the mirror after saying things like that? I am sure that your god, the one you believe in, would love for people to live in harmony, and would frown on you making statements like that.

YOu want us to believe what a good religious person you are, yet you spout the same kind of hate that make people who are not Muslims, question the religion.

I do not think that you make a good representative for your religion.

How easy is it to come to this site and make repulsive statesments to people on the part of your religion? I hope you can look inside your heart and save yourself.

Your allah is probably saddened that someone so immature is using his name as a tool of hate.

I am very sorry for you and hope that one day your soul will be saved and you can comfortably look in the mirror and say you love your fellow man.

God bless you. Everyone needs a little help now and then.

Yeb Vas!

[Bonny]

Sana, You have spunk even at 13 years of age. I work with Ashley a 14 year old she has spunk too & drinks coffee :eek: She comes from a trailer court & calls herself trailer court trash. She came to work at the musuem at the age 12 determined to be hired. We hired her last year & she is a work in progress learning to taking on the world. You seem to be doing the same taking on the world. :D

Pomtzu, I give these spunky girls credit & they are in the process of learning things the hard way but they are learning.:cool: They are our tomorrow.:) Scary as it may seem. :eek:;):)

[pomtzu]

Pomtzu, I give these spunky girls credit & they are in the process of learning things the hard way but they are learning.:cool: They are our tomorrow.:) Scary as it may seem. :eek:;):)

There is a difference between spunk, and arrogance and rudeness, and I don't perceive it as spunk. I'll just leave it at that.

[pomtzu]

I think you are not the shining example that you god would want you to be.
How can you look in the mirror after saying things like that? I am sure that your god, the one you believe in, would love for people to live in harmony, and would frown on you making statements like that.

YOu want us to believe what a good religious person you are, yet you spout the same kind of hate that make people who are not Muslims, question the religion.

I do not think that you make a good representative for your religion.

How easy is it to come to this site and make repulsive statesments to people on the part of your religion? I hope you can look inside your heart and save yourself.

Your allah is probably saddened that someone so immature is using his name as a tool of hate.

I am very sorry for you and hope that one day your soul will be saved and you can comfortably look in the mirror and say you love your fellow man.

God bless you. Everyone needs a little help now and then.

Yeb Vas!

Thank you Richard - well said.

[Miss Z]

And it didn't occur to anyone that after comments along the lines of...

'I don't care for Islam'
'Islam is outdated'
'Islam is hateful'
'Islam's prophet is a paedophile'
'Islam kills people'

... that she might be a little angry?

She wasn't the one who started getting narky with you all. In her first posts she tried to answer the questions put to her, questions mostly phrased in a deliberately awkward manner. Give her a break, for pity's sake.

And if you are so concerned with her being thirteen, perhaps you should all take a long, hard look at yourselves, as adults, at being so hateful towards the religion that is important to a young girl.

[pomtzu]

And if you are so concerned with her being thirteen, perhaps you should all take a long, hard look at yourselves, as adults, at being so hateful towards the religion that is important to a young girl.

Well - since I was the one who made note of her age, then I presume that this is directed at me. I went back and re-read my posts, and so sorry, but I fail to see where I said anything hateful about her religion.

However, I did find her posts to be hateful. I fail to see where wishing death and the wrath of Allah upon anyone, is in the spirit of love or understanding. In general, she has a nasty mouth to go along with the nasty attitude.

Richard hit the nail on the head with his last post #86.

[RICHARD]

Well - since I was the one who made note of her age, then I presume that this is directed at me. I went back and re-read my posts, and so sorry, but I fail to see where I said anything hateful about her religion.



Pom,

It really isn't nice to make fun of people who have not fully developed their cerebral cortices.

Let me do it.:eek::confused::rolleyes:

Reading is fundamental, context and comprehension are fleeting.

[pomtzu]

Pom,

It really isn't nice to make fun of people who have not fully developed their cerebral cortices.

Let me do it.:eek::confused::rolleyes:

Reading is fundamental, context and comprehension are fleeting.


And Richard nails it again...........:p:D

[RICHARD]

And Richard nails it again...........:p:D



:love::love:

[Miss Z]

Pomtzu,

It wasn't directed at you.

Alright, she's got some education ahead of her. Perhaps, then, she ought to be allowed to learn, rather than slandered by much older members on a topic that is far more close to her heart than it is to that of anyone else here.

As adult members, I did hope that we were still a little more forgiving with our younger members.

Else who knows how I'd have turned out. ;)

[RICHARD]

Who left the door open?

[Miss Z]

Well, if it's open... may as well walk in.

No need to shoot me this time, I feel. :love:

[pomtzu]

Alright, she's got some education ahead of her. Perhaps, then, she ought to be allowed to learn, rather than slandered by much older members on a topic that is far more close to her heart than it is to that of anyone else here.

As adult members, I did hope that we were still a little more forgiving with our younger members.




It's because of comments as those posted below, that she is alienating herself here. There are flaws in all religions, and for her to think hers is perfect, and the only one that is, is rather opinionated, don't you think?? It appears that she is the only one talking trash. Chalk it up to her age and immaturity if you will, but she seems to be heading down a path that will only continue to reinforce and strengthen her beliefs that she has now. She obviously has no intention of being open-minded. She is right, and the world's all wrong. :rolleyes:



And this culture is not barbarism. We loved Muhammad and its best you tried to look at the flaws of your own religion. Read my last post and you'll see what is wrong in your religion. Its known worldwide. Read it and stop talking about the flaws (there is no flaw in Islam and these are flaws you think but we don't because we know our religion) of Islam. Islam is flawless. And I don't care what you think of it. I think my religion is the greatest and it will never perish I can promise you that!

[Karen]

Remember, folks, it is better to try to gently educate than attack. Sana, this goes for you as well as everyone else. Do not think that your opinion is the only one that exists and push everyone else away. We are all here because we love pets, that is the one thing we have in common. We may disagree on matters of politics or religion, but here on Pet Talk, we ask that everyone try to be respectful of others.

Just think, if you were in a busy place, and there was someone yelling her opinion at the top of her or his lungs, would you try to listen to that person? No, you'd like get annoyed and walk away. But if someone approaches nicely, a conversation is much more likely.

[Miss Z]

It's because of comments as those posted below, that she is alienating herself here. There are flaws in all religions, and for her to think hers is perfect, and the only one that is, is rather opinionated, don't you think??



Agreed in every sense.

If however that were to be the 'path' she's heading down, then I don't believe certain comments made by some members here are going to do much to make her think twice about it. She'll become more hardened to an American/Western/whatever way of thinking than ever.

If she is to be expected to bite her lip, I think it is courteous to expect others do the same for her.


She obviously has no intention of being open-minded. She is right, and the world's all wrong. :rolleyes:

That attitude is most definitely not unique to her!! PARTICULARLY in the Dog House.

Half the world is plagued by that line of thinking. 'Tis why we fall out so much. ;)

Thanks for explaining your views, anyways. I think sana may be able to take something constructive from civilised debate.

[pomtzu]

Thanks for explaining your views, anyways. I think sana may be able to take something constructive from civilised debate.

I hope so. She is too young to have built up so much anger, and yes, hatred. And it didn't just happen here on PT. She obviously has carried this around for quite some time. Kinda sad really, when you think about it........:(

[Karen]

I hope so. She is too young to have built up so much anger, and yes, hatred. And it didn't just happen here on PT. She obviously has carried this around for quite some time. Kinda sad really, when you think about it........:(

But she is young enough to learn different, and to expand her horizons as well. And if we do not chase her away, we can be part of that!

[sana]

Well - since I was the one who made note of her age, then I presume that this is directed at me. I went back and re-read my posts, and so sorry, but I fail to see where I said anything hateful about her religion.

However, I did find her posts to be hateful. I fail to see where wishing death and the wrath of Allah upon anyone, is in the spirit of love or understanding. In general, she has a nasty mouth to go along with the nasty attitude.

Richard hit the nail on the head with his last post #86.

I wished for death because he called my Prophet a pedophile and I have a total right to do that. You don't check wombat's mistakes, you only want to pick on mine. I know I have been a little rude and angry, but you don't need to be picky on me. Go read and see what wombat, Lady's Human and Richard were saying about my religion. Potmz, you didn't read anybody else's posts did you? If you didn't then look what you're talking and if you did read them then you're weird.:eek:

[sana]

Sana, the internet has a whole wealth of information about things.

Why don't you go cross check the "facts" you're being spoon fed by the imams in the Madrassa?

Might open your mind a touch............You're living in a 16th century culture practicing a 7th century religion. Newsflash.....it's 2010.

Newsflash Chritianity and Jewish religion weren't made yesterday! They came with Islam and if we want to carry on this religion we can, there isn't a world oath or anything, we can believe in whatever we want. And don't dare blam our imams for anything and by the way. You don't have proper information about Islam. The Americans spoon feed you and look what you're saying. Imams lead the prayer (Namaz) they don't preach stuff.

[lizbud]

Oh my, Any adult who tries to reason with a 13yr old child, is bound to be
either frustrated or bored. They are after all, 13 years old. Much to young
to have the accumlated life experiences of any adult.

[Bonny]

Sana, Are you sure you are 13 not an older person making off they are 13? If a Christian child spoke the way you do dear to adults, they would get their faces slapped. Anyhow that would of happened at my folks house when I was growing up. I showed respect to my elders & sassy lassie was not allowed. I would like to learn more about your culture but in a civil manner. I had asked Popcornbird a bunch of questions further back on the thread but got no answers? Did I ask the wrong questions? :confused:

[pomtzu]

I wished for death because he called my Prophet a pedophile and I have a total right to do that. You don't check wombat's mistakes, you only want to pick on mine. I know I have been a little rude and angry, but you don't need to be picky on me. Go read and see what wombat, Lady's Human and Richard were saying about my religion. Potmz, you didn't read anybody else's posts did you? If you didn't then look what you're talking and if you did read them then you're weird.:eek:

Well my dear, then I guess I'm weird in those 13 year old eyes of yours, because I read this thread completely thru twice - all posts by all people. I still find it very sad that you can wish death on anyone, no matter what you think justifies you to do so. And I'm afraid what Karen said about PT people being part of expanding your horizons and learning differently, is something that will never happen. You have to take those blinders off, and you obviously have no desire to do that.

[Karen]

Newsflash Chritianity and Jewish religion weren't made yesterday! They came with Islam and if we want to carry on this religion we can, there isn't a world oath or anything, we can believe in whatever we want. And don't dare blam our imams for anything and by the way. You don't have proper information about Islam. The Americans spoon feed you and look what you're saying. Imams lead the prayer (Namaz) they don't preach stuff.

Sana, we know that. Judaism predates Christianity, and they both were around before Islam came about. Some of the custom Muslims follow were around in the culture before Mohammed was ever born, I do not know if they teach you that in school.

No, Americans are not spoon fed any information, we have a wide variety of news sources and opinion sources, and are free to follow the religion of our choice, or even no religion at all. It is up to each individual.

Read what I said before - you can disagree, but be respectful. Remember, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, as my grandmother used to say.

[Karen]

I had asked Popcornbird a bunch of questions further back on the thread but got no answers? Did I ask the wrong questions? :confused:

Remember, Popcornbird has a baby to look after now days, and it is also Ramadan, so she has less computer time than she used to, especially with baby M growing every day! You might have a better shot if you send her a PM, so she doesn't have to read through a lot of posts to find your questions.

[sana]

Hey, I now I have been a rude and angry before. I have an apology to make, sorry wombat, I didn't know you're so... elder. We are not allowed to be rude to elders in Islam. Although I sometimes am to rude to my sis.:p Sorry Richard and Lady's Human. But, I'm sure you guys would do the same if your Prophet or Jesus was called a pedophile. I did like what you would have done. I won't call Jesus anything or Abraham because we believe they were prophets from God. Sorry about my behavior but I was just trying to clear Islam's name around this thread although I became rude and made the point worse. But things like these aren't supposed to be done in Islam and so they have to be treated that way if they disobey the rules. Don't abuse my religion and I won't be angry.:)

[sana]

Remember, Popcornbird has a baby to look after now days, and it is also Ramadan, so she has less computer time than she used to, especially with baby M growing every day! You might have a better shot if you send her a PM, so she doesn't have to read through a lot of posts to find your questions.

Yeah, its Ramazan. Its a nice month. And I guess popcornbird didn't turn online because of that. Well, if you ever read this Popcornbird, know this.
HAPPY RAMAZAN!!! And an advance Eid Mubarak because I won't be online then.:)

[blue]

Can anybody confirm that Muhammad's last wife was 9 or 10 when they married and consummated said marriage? She might have been 14 or 15 at the time of marriage and consummation however.

[sana]

Hazrat Ayesha got engaged at the age of 6 and was to Muhammad (S.A.W.) at the age of 9. WOW! right?

[blue]

Hey blue......you got your point of view, I have mine.

I can respect that, and if you came here I wouldnt push to change the laws to suppress your opinions. Here your Rights are protected from the Majority.


And yes, we will restrict certain cultural practices of immigrants if they choose to live here......that's not us being a$$holes.....that's just using common sense (we still have that ability).
After all, we are their host country, and they take an oath before becoming citizens to abide by our laws....is that unreasonable ??? Culturally unacceptable ???

Actually I liked what a former Ausie PM, was it the PM or just a various kangaroo loving gov officials, said referring to muslims who want to live under Sharia law. To summarize the statement, "If you want to live under Sharia law, go to a country that practices it". I can get behind that idea. I cant support the idea that new laws need to be enacted to suppress a small group because the majority feels icky.


And yeah....I'd say you would be comfortable being an a$$hole. Whatever makes you happy in your comfort zone.

Its who I am and I accept that.


Anyway blue.....if you are unhappy with what I post, then the simple answer is to put me on ignore..........and if you wish to have a shot at me personally, then lets take it privately on PM....ok big fella ????

Put you on ignore? What fun would that be?

And when you start taking personal shots to PMs Ill do the same, ok tiny?

[blue]

Hazrat Ayesha got engaged at the age of 6 and was to Muhammad (S.A.W.) at the age of 9. WOW! right?

Thats what I saw, what I didnt see was Muhammad's age at the time of consummation, any help there?

[sana]

I don't know

[sana]

Hey, I now I have been a rude and angry before. I have an apology to make, sorry wombat, I didn't know you're so... elder. We are not allowed to be rude to elders in Islam.
But I don't know about Non-Muslim elders. hehe.. seriously, I dont.

[blue]

But I don't know about Non-Muslim elders. hehe.. seriously, I dont.

I was under the impression if they werent muslim they where beneath muslims and not worthy of respect. I could be wrong however.

[sana]

I was under the impression if they werent muslim they where beneath muslims and not worthy of respect. I could be wrong however.

Hey, I didn't say they were not worthy and stuff. To muslims we behave differently and to Non - Muslims we are told to behave differently. I hope Allah is pleased with what I said.

[blue]

Hey, I didn't say they were not worthy and stuff. To muslims we behave differently and to Non - Muslims we are told to behave differently. I hope Allah is pleased with what I said.

I didnt say you said anything;), I was just passing on my impression of muslisms regarding non muslims. :D

[Catty1]

Aisha seems to be the wife who is spoken of - as a child, she was initially betrothed to another man, but he was set aside when Aisha was suggested as a match for Mohammed, whose one wife had just died. Also, Mohammed and Aisha are said to have developed a true fondness for each other, and it is reported that he died with her, with his head in her lap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

There were two other "co-wives"; many men mentioned in the Christian Old Testament (most notably) had many wives.

Different times, different cultures.

[sana]

Aisha seems to be the wife who is spoken of - as a child, she was initially betrothed to another man, but he was set aside when Aisha was suggested as a match for Mohammed, whose one wife had just died. Also, Mohammed and Aisha are said to have developed a true fondness for each other, and it is reported that he died with her, with his head in her lap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

There were two other "co-wives"; many men mentioned in the Christian Old Testament (most notably) had many wives.

Different times, different cultures.

Catty1, the wikipedia site you've given has a mistake. Prophet (S.A.W.) didn't have a wife Rayhana

[wombat2u2004]

I can get behind that idea. I cant support the idea that new laws need to be enacted to suppress a small group because the majority feels icky.

Ok....so you believe we shouldn't enact a law that prevents muslim youths spitting on Christian bikinied women on our own beaches, because according to their religion they are offended ???
Now blue....if that happened on one of your beaches, would the US majority feel icky about that ????
What about the dried fecal matter that was baked into cakes to be sold to the US citizens that I read about a couple of years ago ??? Where was that now ??? Texas ??? One of those states down south from memory. Why do you think they did that blue ???? Just for fun ??? Or to be naughty children ???
As for enacting new laws....it's a good idea if it deters such behaviour....don't you think ???
How about a law of extradition to apply to these people ??? After all, how can they belong in a land where they have no regard for their host's, disrupt the normal community, and have no respect at all for other cultures ???
Tolerance is not a muslim virtue blue, it never has been.....it's a culture still living by the ideals of a prophet who did not have any interest in tolerance.
If these people show tolerance toward other cultures and religions, then I may agree with you. But they don't, they have never ever intended to do so.
You think I'm a racist ??? That's ok......but....I just reciprocate...thats all.

[blue]

Ok....so you believe we shouldn't enact a law that prevents muslim youths spitting on Christian bikinied women on our own beaches, because according to their religion they are offended ???
Now blue....if that happened on one of your beaches, would the US majority feel icky about that ????

Laws already exist for that, why would we need new ones?


What about the dried fecal matter that was baked into cakes to be sold to the US citizens that I read about a couple of years ago ??? Where was that now ??? Texas ??? One of those states down south from memory. Why do you think they did that blue ???? Just for fun ??? Or to be naughty children ???
As for enacting new laws....it's a good idea if it deters such behaviour....don't you think ???

Again no need for new laws, the FDA covers the amount of fecal matter in our food stuffs.


How about a law of extradition to apply to these people ??? After all, how can they belong in a land where they have no regard for their host's, disrupt the normal community, and have no respect at all for other cultures ???
Tolerance is not a muslim virtue blue, it never has been.....it's a culture still living by the ideals of a prophet who did not have any interest in tolerance.
If these people show tolerance toward other cultures and religions, then I may agree with you. But they don't, they have never ever intended to do so.
You think I'm a racist ??? That's ok......but....I just reciprocate...thats all.

We have laws for extraditing illegals, our gutless leaders wont enforce those laws. We dont need new laws, what we need is the bawlz to enforce the laws we currently have. Our current POTUS and legislature are more concerned about their jobs then our laws.

Again you may be a d!ck but Australia has a point, "If you want to practice Sharia law move to a country that practices it!"

Im more tolerant then the muslims, but they have a right to be intolerant in this country within the law. If they step outside of the law, hang em.

[wombat2u2004]

Im more tolerant then the muslims, but they have a right to be intolerant in this country within the law. If they step outside of the law, hang em.

Sure I'm a d!ck, but not as big a d!ck as you and your kin right here on this forum. But......I'm comfortable with that, as you probably are.

But what better deterent than the promise of extradition to those who default ???
Anyway....just like you blue....your country is naught but a contradiction.
On one hand, US embassies won't issue visas for those who have a criminal record as minor as shoplifting, to those who wish merely to go to your country for a holiday........and yet......"eat your cake up kiddies...that guy in the cake shop with the teatowel on his head said it was only chocolate on top".
I mean, I know you have amendments to protect a fly crawling up the wall....but at least be seen to have some common sense.

[wombat2u2004]

And by the way blue.......your bill of rights has caused insurmountable problems to your country over the past 50 years....it's gradually ripping your country apart.....but....I'm sure you're comfortable with that.

[Karen]

And by the way blue.......your bill of rights has caused insurmountable problems to your country over the past 50 years....it's gradually ripping your country apart.....but....I'm sure you're comfortable with that.

That's just your opinion. Why do you think it has caused insurmountable problems? Any proof of that?

Our country is not ripping apart. You must be following just certain of the news media who always play up the bad, and don't report the good news that happens every day. On my street are people of several different races, more ethnicities than I could guess, and at least three different religions, and different denominations. Our differences do not rip us apart, and while not every likes everyone else, or knows everyone else, we all live peaceably.

Am I deluded or naive? No. Sorry. My feet are firmly planted on the ground thanks. Does my country have problems? Yes. But what country doesn't?

And remember, you can think whatever you want, but do not post anything racist - this is Pet Talk. We do not discriminate between purebreds and mixed breeds or mystery breeds in dogs, nor should we in humans either.

[blue]

Our Bill of Rights is pretty common sense stuff, its the nut jobs that want to redefine them to meet their needs is the problem. The Bill of Rights and our Amendments clarify our Rights not trample them.

There are a few things we could learn from you Aussies, but Im not in charge so you didnt hear that from me.

Now what amendment protects flys?

[wombat2u2004]

That's just your opinion. Why do you think it has caused insurmountable problems? Any proof of that?

No it ain't. It isn't just MY opinion at all.....it's the opinion of many many people I have discussed the issue with, and that includes Americans who take off the patriotic hat.
Proof ???? Miles and miles of it.

[wombat2u2004]

"Our Bill of Rights is pretty common sense stuff",

Sure is....historically that is.

[wombat2u2004]

Hey, I now I have been a rude and angry before. I have an apology to make, sorry wombat, I didn't know you're so... elder.

Well.....you come as surprise don't you ???
I gratefully accept your apology, and in turn I apologize to you for the things I have posted that may have offended you.
We shall be friends ;)

[sana]

Well.....you come as surprise don't you ???
I gratefully accept your apology, and in turn I apologize to you for the things I have posted that may have offended you.
We shall be friends ;)

I will send you an invitation.:)

[Bonny]

Karen, You are very lucky to live in a community where there is peace & harmony. I am not so lucky. The raid that took place in a town called Postville Iowa with illegals being hauled off took place going on two years now.The kosher plant was closed down & now has reopened. Now it is all coming about again. This time Somalis are moving in working for the same group of people in their kosher meat packing plant. The town use to get by with two parttime policmen. It now has two fulltime & four parttime to keep the law. The farmers around the area have to lock everything up because of theft even the gardens are being robbed of their veggies. All is not well in America & being called Racist or Hateful on this board is a lame excuse because there are those of us that happen to live in an area where we see it all going down. There is no media here it is being played out right in front of our eyes.

[Karen]

I am sorry you have such trouble where you live, Bonny, really I am. Are the thefts all from the new immigrants, does anyone know? Are there any efforts for dialogue between the Somalis and the long-term residents, maybe by local clergy if the politicians won't do it?

Sad isn't it, how every wave of immigrants gets a bad rap, deserving or not - I remember being told my great grandfather ran the only mill in town who refused to post a "No Irish Need Apply" sign, and now no one thinks twice about Irish Americans. It seems everyone has an adjustment period, some harder than others.

[Bonny]

What you have is one group using another group to fulfill their religious needs. There is a Christian group that try to educate & help legal & illegal immagrants in our area. It is very frustrating to see it repeat itself again & again. :(

[phesina]

Do the people running the meatpacking plant hire illegal aliens?

[Bonny]

Do the people running the meatpacking plant hire illegal aliens?

Yes! The biggest raid in U.S. history took place in Postville, Iowa. Illegal Hispanics & Guatemalans were hauled away on buses. Mr Rahbushkin (sp?) was held accountable & was sent off to prison out on the east coast where his religion will be respected in a prison set asside for Jewish prisoners & his family will be living close by to visit him. He also has a huge fine to pay which I don't think will ever be paid? They also had Hispanic & Guatemalan children working in the packing plant. Mr. Rahbushskin (SP?) got by on that one.

The Illegal Hispanics & Guatemalans were sent back to their countries at the tax payers expense. Their families were cared for by the church groups fed, clothed, housed until transport could be had. It was a & still is a sad case of events. :(

Congress had better get their butt in gear & start changing the old laws that don't pertain to this time period & allow more legal visa's so workers can come in legally to work & also pay taxes like the rest of us do when they are here.

[popcornbird]

:eek:
I come back online after a good amount of time only to find THIS??? :eek: I'm starting to think, "Thank God I don't have time for Pet Talk anymore!":(

Some of you people here are so hateful, so insultive, so terrible that it is unbelievable, and just incredibly sad. It is a shame, truly, that some expect Muslims to be tolerant of everything, while they go about posting things that would cause any Muslim's blood to boil. I will refrain from commenting, because responding to someone who is worthless is just a waste of time.


To Bonny. I was not ignoring you. I am a busy mother of a young infant who keeps me on my toes, and don't even have time to keep up with my emails anymore. PT has become a last priority for me at this time in life. I don't even log on for weeks, or sometimes months at a time...so don't expect to hear from me quickly.


popcornbird, Thank you for sharing your culture. You come from a loving family. I have some questions? You have your religion Islam & then their is your culture. If a man of Islam walked by a women of another culture would he lower his eyes or look away? Do women also have to lower their eyes & look away when they see an Islamic a man or men or men of another culture? If that is the case how do you get to meet someone of the opposite sex? Are marriages prearranged by family & is that part of the Islamic religion or culture or both if so. Do the men, women, & children get to worship in the same area in a Mosque? Do you & can you marry outside your religion Islam if you should wish to? Are the men the head of the household like bringing home the wages, or can it be shared where the wife works also? Are there restrictions on careers for men or women that would interfere with the Islamic religion? All these questions but like you said what we hear is what the media puts out there.

In answer to your questions...Islam is a religion, and cultures are a seperate issue. Many Muslim countries practice 'cultures' that have nothing to do with Islam, and is just their culture. I don't really follow any culture. I just try my best to be a good Muslim.

If a man walks by a woman of ANY culture, he has to lower his gaze. It does not only apply to Muslim women. In fact, I would assume it applies more to women who are 'showing more', and thus, there is more reason to refrain from staring. Keep in mind that this ruling does not apply to women who are family members. We do not cover at home in front of our family. Women are also required to lower their gaze when around unrelated men, however the requirement of lowering the gaze is directed more strongly towards men than it is to women.

The rulings for marriage are different than the general rule. When interested in marriage, one not only can, but SHOULD look at the intended spouse, talk, and come to the conclusion of whether or not they feel suitable for each other before they proceed. There are different ways in which people meet their spouse. Most often, people get references from family or friends, where a parent, sibling, friend, etc. would tell the person, "I know such and such girl who is a wonderful person, beautiful, intelligent, has good manners, loving, etc....whatever one thinks about her.....I think she might be a good option for you. Why don't you look into it?" If the person looking to get married is interested, he or she usually tries to arrange a meeting with the girl/guy, and their family if possible. If they like each other, things usually move forward. If not, they keep looking. We don't date, and we don't go out with the opposite sex without a third person, but most of us get married and love our spouses more than anyone in the world. ;)

Marriages are not 'prearranged' by family (unless the family is very cultural and not really religious), but the potential spouse is often introduced to the suitor by family, or friends. 'Arranged marriages' (where bride meets groom on wedding day :eek: ) are actually more of a Hindu custom, not an Islamic one.

About mosques...it depends on the mosque. Most mosques have a seperate hall for men and a seperate one for women, and children go wherever they want, but others just have the men in the front and the women in the back in the same hall.

Its generally not recommended to marry outside the religion. I wouldn't do it even if it were permissible. There is just no way a couple would be able to have a household together and raise kids together when their ideas of raising a family are so different. It would clash, regardless of how much you love each other.

Men are required to take on the responsibility of earning for their family. It is a requirement for them...they have to take that responsibility. Women on the other hand have the option. Women in Islam are allowed to work just as men are, but the financial burden to raise a family is not on their shoulders. In other words, if they wish to work, they can and most do, but they are not required to take this responsibility. There are jobs that both men and women would be forbidden from doing...for example, working at a bank, as working with interest based loans, accounts, etc. is forbidden in our religion. Working at a casino would be wrong for both sexes. Working at a nightclub would be forbidden...etc. The other typical jobs (doctor, teacher, engineer, salesperson, etc. is all allowed for both genders).

I hope I answered your questions.

[Cataholic]

There are jobs that both men and women would be forbidden from doing...for example, working at a bank, as working with interest based loans, accounts, etc. is forbidden in our religion. Working at a casino would be wrong for both sexes. Working at a nightclub would be forbidden...etc. The other typical jobs (doctor, teacher, engineer, salesperson, etc. is all allowed for both genders).



What about lawyers...he he he...

[RICHARD]

Sorry Richard and Lady's Human. But, I'm sure you guys would do the same if your Prophet or Jesus was called a pedophile.

No apology necessary, I apologize to you if I was rude.

I do not believe in any god except whoever made the planet and the universe that surrounds us.

I think it would be a dishonor to even try to understand anyone who could create something like this....



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af68/xxlt/hubble-1.jpg?t=1282601789

[wombat2u2004]

Richard. That looks like a frisbee :p

[blue]

Sure is....historically that is.

Because in modern times people think that God Given Rights are now subjective too majority rule instead of being self evident.

[wombat2u2004]

Because in modern times people think that God Given Rights are now subjective too majority rule instead of being self evident.

Too bad.

[blue]

Too bad.

Thats your answer for Government acting in a Tyrannical manner? Too Bad!

[wombat2u2004]

Thats your answer for Government acting in a Tyrannical manner? Too Bad!

Your bad luck.

[blue]

Good thing for me Im not an Aborigine. Good thing for you you didnt soldier here. Here Rights mean something.

[wombat2u2004]

Good thing for me Im not an Aborigine.

Yup.
I'd rather you be a yank....you belong there.

[blue]

Yup.
I'd rather you be a yank....you belong there.

What, Abo's dont shoot back? As a soldier your used to doing whatever your told and care nothing about laws or Rights? Is that why you like not having a Bill of Rights?

[wombat2u2004]

"What, Abo's dont shoot back?"

Good God no !!!! All they had was sticks and stones. They were a push over, just like your redskins were.

"As a soldier your used to doing whatever your told and care nothing about laws or Rights?"

Yup.


"Is that why you like not having a Bill of Rights?"

I've already told you why I'm against a Bill of Rights.

[blue]

Since proper internet etiquette hasnt reached the land down under allow me....


"What, Abo's dont shoot back?"


Good God no !!!! All they had was sticks and stones. They were a push over, just like your redskins were.

My families came here after the Great Potato famine and after WWII. Yes as a country we F#(%ed over the natives and we have continued to screw them over. If I where in charge I would not do like you and make excuses, I would stop it and allow them to make their way on their own merits.

Its nice of you to admit you opened fire on unarmed groups of Aussie citizens and are unapologetic about it.


"As a soldier your used to doing whatever your told and care nothing about laws or Rights?"


Yup.

I made an oath to execute and uphold Lawful Orders, I still hold to that oath. As soldiers go, you are making Puck look better every time you post.


"Is that why you like not having a Bill of Rights?"


I've already told you why I'm against a Bill of Rights.

Because you dont want to be held accountable for your actions as a soldier?

[wombat2u2004]

"Since proper internet etiquette hasnt reached the land down under"

Well how about that.
Guess I oughta throw that one back right at ya.
Don't go throwing stones fella.

"My families came here after the Great Potato famine and after WWII. Yes as a country we F#(%ed over the natives and we have continued to screw them over. If I where in charge I would not do like you and make excuses, I would stop it and allow them to make their way on their own merits."

If you were in charge, your country wouldn't last 5 minutes.

"Its nice of you to admit you opened fire on unarmed groups of Aussie citizens and are unapologetic about it."

We also poisoned the flour.


"I made an oath to execute and uphold Lawful Orders, I still hold to that oath. As soldiers go, you are making Puck look better every time you post."

Well good for you.
You deserve the Congressional Medal of Honor.

"Because you dont want to be held accountable for your actions as a soldier?"

Why on earth should I be held accountable for fighting a war that you guys started, and you guys ran away from ???? The mind boggles.
There are no rules in war, and anyone who instigates rules in war is a fool.

[blue]

Why on earth should I be held accountable for fighting a war that you guys started, and you guys ran away from ???? The mind boggles.
There are no rules in war, and anyone who instigates rules in war is a fool.

Not counting your senile rantings, you seem to be proud about gunning for the "Abo's."

[wombat2u2004]

Not counting your senile rantings, you seem to be proud about gunning for the "Abo's."

Proud ??? Where have I said that ???? Another of your assumptions Blue ???
You're kind of big on assumptions eh ??? I really believe that you haven't anything else to support your arguments with.
Senile rantings ???? Now you are into personal attack territory are you ???
Don't worry, I won't personally attack you Blue.

Oh....love the new name you gave me...WOMBATLOVE....cute ;)

[wombat2u2004]

Oh, by the way Blue.....don't you know already that namecalling is against forum ettiquette ???
Not that I mind you changing my name to Wombatlove....but....it's kind of childish, don't you think ????

[blue]

Proud ??? Where have I said that ????

You do know what the term "Seem to" means dont you?


Another of your assumptions Blue ???
You're kind of big on assumptions eh ??? I really believe that you haven't anything else to support your arguments with.
Senile rantings ???? Now you are into personal attack territory are you ???
Don't worry, I won't personally attack you Blue.

Dont get butt hurt over assumptions without filling out the form (http://htmlimg3.scribdassets.com/5xnf424bzjapkjk/images/1-01ece685d9/000.jpg). Personal attack? Against you? Never. Of course you wouldnt personally attack anybody, just an entire group of citizens of another country that you happen to look down on.


Oh....love the new name you gave me...WOMBATLOVE....cute ;)

You like the new one too?


Oh, by the way Blue.....don't you know already that namecalling is against forum ettiquette ???
Not that I mind you changing my name to Wombatlove....but....it's kind of childish, don't you think ????

Childish? In what way? This is the interweb.

[wombat2u2004]

End of story Blue
AS USUAL....YOU GOT ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN'. :cool:

[blue]

End of story Blue
AS USUAL....YOU GOT ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN'. :cool:

You are channeling ES now?

[blue]

If you were in charge, your country wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Im sure you meant.....


If you were in charge, my country wouldn't last a minute.

[CatsMeow]

When they die, don't they get the promised 7 virgins??? :eek::D Might not be such a bad deal for them in the long run.....:p:D:D:D:D

No they don't get 7 virgins. They actually get 0 virgins... nothing. Well, yeah, they get hell, (no excusing my language- it's part of my religion, thank you.) but no virgins.

[pomtzu]

No they don't get 7 virgins. They actually get 0 virgins... nothing. Well, yeah, they get hell, (no excusing my language- it's part of my religion, thank you.) but no virgins.

Now read my PM..........:(