Need some advice please

[Marigold2]

Would you let someone back into your life that has deep seated emotional problems? This person is alone in the world but it is because of the vile, hatred and mental issues she has. She showed up in my driveway the other night. Old now and on kidney dialyasis she has been heavy 400 lbs for much of her life, has lost about 180 now do to her health.
I so hate to turn my back on a fellow human being, she is in therapy or was but just does not see how her hatred and vile turn people away.
I listened to her talk for two hours in my driveway, (she did not want to come out of the car because she needs a walker) and it was as if no time had passed. At 66 she is still blaming her parents for a rotten childhood, he brothers for being evil and out to get her for money. She never married or had kids.
I just don't think I can do this folks. I can't listen to this same old complaints I heard 21 years ago. Yes she had a bad childhood but it was 55 years ago. Because she grew up with money she also had a ton of advantages most people don't have, almost unlimited funds which she spent on unlimited food to get to the 400 +lbs.
I want to be a good person, I hate the idea of turning my back on her because she is alone and so very very ill but I just don't think I can take the vile, the poor me, the everyone out to get me, the no one cares about me, I am so alone speech again and again and again.
She did do a lot for me in the past but decided to break the friendship six years ago and I never knew why, so I asked and she said "I don't remember I guess I thought you were siding with my brother".
I was stunned he has almost as many problems as she does.
If I make myself unavailable which is easy because I work a lot and do a lot of things with family and friends I will feel guilty because she is so old and ill and that would just comfirm her cries of no one cares about her.
On the other hand I just don't think I can handle all this hate and negitive and trying to always be positive and up and be there for her, she is almost a full time job once she attaches herself to you.
No one should be alone but ,,,,,,,,,,,,, guys I just don't know what to do.
My freinds who know her have given their advice now I need some from people who are distanced. Thanks

[Karen]

I think you can either establish parameters - "Yes, I will be your friend, but you cannot call every day, we can get together once a week" whatever you think you can handle, or you can say "Yes, I'll be your friend, but if you start talking about X, Y, or Z I will stop you, let's talk about life now ..." or you can just decide, if that would be to stressful to you, and she won't follow any parameters, to break it off again. Explain to her, if you feel you must, that friendship is a two-way street, and she needs to work at being a better friend, and so do you - by keeping yourself sane, but she needn't hear that last part.

If you don't want the effort, then I'd leave it alone. She obviously managed without you for those years, she can do so again.

[Marigold2]

Thanks Karen, I believe the reason she showed up at my house is because her neighbor of 40 years moved to FL about a month ago and she relied on this woman a lot to do things for her.
Since she was so heavy so could not do steps, get her mail, take garbage out etc Now with the walker it's kind of the same thing.

[pomtzu]

I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$, so please don't take what I say as such.

From other posts and threads, you've made it clear (to me anyway), that others could turn to you for advice, support, etc., in time of need. Why is this case any different? Is it more effort than you want to put into it, or maybe you just don't want other people to know that there is a friendship (or whatever) with a person of this nature, and that perhaps they would judge you as you have judged her? :confused: It's been said that we are known/judged by the company we keep.

I think this is one of those issues that you need to work out for yourself, as you, and only you, know this other party.

Good luck!

[Marigold2]

Her and I were friends for over 15 years and went every where together all 400 lbs of her which I might add was difficult at times.
She could only sit on some of my furniture, had the hardest time getting out of my small Toyota, going to resturants was always fun as people would stare and point and snicker.
Also whenever we went somewhere she would have to sit down often which made going places difficult to say the least.
It was difficult being with her because the weight made her handicapped in many ways but that was not what bothered me.
The kids and I didn't mind what she looked like it was the negitive comments she made all the time to me and the kids.

No one is going to be there for you so get used to it kiddo.
Life is a b****.
Life is full of disappointments, so get used to it.
You have no one but yourself to count on everyone else will **** on you.
No one is ever there when I need them but I don't give a **** I can and will take care of myself.
Money honey is what makes the world go round.
Money is power and that is all people respect.
People will use you all the time.
People are ****, remember that.

This is how she talked ALL the time. This is what I meant by bitter and vile. This is what she would say to my kids and I would always teach them different by deed and action by love and words.
When she showed up and looked so ill and talked about going to therapy and how ill she is now (she looks 88 instead of 66) I listened and she is the same, still full of this vile. All this hate...........
My kids are grown now, my heartfelt question to myself and others is do you open your heart again to this type of person and try try try to show them that their is love and good in the world or is this a hopeless case and a self fulfilling prophecy.

She will go to her grave always unhappy... God that is sad especially for someone who had so much.

[Catty1]

I suggest calling your local mental health office for advice on how to deal with this.

If she hasn't changed in all these years, it's unlikely she will now.

You MAY want to give it a short trial - say 2 weeks - and tell her, in essence, "No bitching" and that you will call her on it every time.

If you do talk to her again, you can try what a friend tried on me many many years ago: "Ask me a question. Ask me what my favourite colour is, what movies I like." She did that to get me out of my head and at least CONSIDER other people around me.

Sadly, I think the bottom line is she will keep spewing vitriol till she dies. You are not obliged to handle an ongoing running sewer of human behaviour.

This is MUCH different that being asked for advice by people you know...this woman is asking for nothing except a target to continually dump on.

JMO

[pomtzu]

You say that she's the one that broke the friendship 6 years ago. Why didn't you break it long before then, if she was all that terrible? If she hasn't changed, then you're in for more of the same. You dealt with it in the past and didn't seek to break from her, so what makes it any different now? Now if you had been the one to break it 6 years ago, I could understand, but you didn't.

[Catty1]

Ok, ok it's Marigold's turn to break it then. Whatever. She didn't invite this woman back after the break. It was 21 years ago.

Marigold, if YOU break it this time, you take back your power. If she keeps hassling you, call the mental health van (they have one in Calgary, I don't know about where you are).

Turn it over to the professionals, if at all possible.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I can understand you not wanting to hear the constant complaining. Nobody wants to hear that from anybody. We all have enough problems of our own. I would simply tell her to stop all the negativity or you can not be bothered. Most people don't mind helping people as long as they help themselves.
If it were me, that's what I would have to do. She will soon figure out that she is running people off because of her attitude.

ETA::: Sorry about missing that she had already lost weight, Marigold. I hope she continues to lose the weight but in a healthy way. Maybe you being her friend will help that along.

Good luck.

[pomtzu]

Ok, ok it's Marigold's turn to break it then. Whatever. She didn't invite this woman back after the break. It was 21 years ago.



No need getting defensive - I was just curious. I told Marigold that I was not trying to be a smart-a$$. And the break was 6 years ago - not 21.

Maybe - just maybe - this is her former friend's way of apologizing and asking for another chance. Maybe.......

[Marigold2]

I met her through a mutual friend and the three of us would get together at first, the two women were going to classes together. Then my friend moved away and she sort of became a fixture here. Her family did not like her and she could not stand them.
It was a slow process but I felt for her and the more she said people were uncaring and only out for themselves the more I wanted to prove her wrong.
She ended the friendship as she ends everything by pushing people away and accusing them of being uncaring and mean and only out for themselves.
As for her weight it didn't bother me so much as it was so hard for her. It was a good lesson for the kids growing up to not judge people by their weight. However when someone is that incredibly heavy they just cannot sit any where, chairs break, they get stuck in chairs, cannot fit into booths, have to sit down every few minutes and they smell. She fell twice flat on her stomach and could not get up and I could not lift her. The first time was in her kitchen and it took the two of us several hours to get her back on her feet. It was horrible. She was scared, in panic mode, would not let me call 911, she had to rest over and over and over again while she tried to roll over onto her back and finally I moved a heavy chair and she could halfway pull herself up, the second time I won't even talk about. I am not being mean here just honest. I would go with her to exercise classes 4 days a week then go off to work and she would go off to a resturant and stuff her face. She would eat portions that were huge and she would go out three times a day as she never cooked at home and didn't clean or do dishes.
Four hundred plus lbs is a lot of weight she didn't walk she shuffled and putting food in her mouth and being that big never seemed to resister to her.
When she sat in my kitchen chairs which are made of heavy wood the foot of the chair made an indentation on my vinyl floor. I didn't realize it till later so I had to have her sit elsewhere. What can you do.
The over eatting was a sign of her general unhappiness. I know that I tried to be there for her but it is hard. No one wants to be alone but if one is mean and vile and pushs people away no matter how patient and hard you try they are somewhat determined to win the battle.
I don't know................ I tried to be there for her for over 15 years and nothing changed, she lives in a fantasy world because the real world is too painful I guess.
I just find it so sad. It's kind of like a wasted life. One that revoles around food and hate.

You say that she's the one that broke the friendship 6 years ago. Why didn't you break it long before then, if she was all that terrible? If she hasn't changed, then you're in for more of the same. You dealt with it in the past and didn't seek to break from her, so what makes it any different now? Now if you had been the one to break it 6 years ago, I could understand, but you didn't.

[Medusa]

Monica, I experienced a similar situation not too long ago. My friend was also overweight, not 400 lbs. but 350 and it was difficult for her to navigate, so I know what you mean. Her weight didn't matter to me; it mattered to her and she'd become very defensive about it w/o anyone even bringing up the subject. She gave strangers the impression of being a cheerful person but she was downright mean to her friends and to me most of all. I tolerated it b/c I knew her history, I was friends w/her family and I knew that she didn't mean most of what she said. Her mistake was laying into me once when my son was so sick w/myositis. (If you'll recall, I posted on PT about it b/c, at the time, doctors didn't know what was wrong w/him, just that he was paralyzed. Anyhow, he's fine now.) She called me "more stupid and assinine that I've ever known you to be". That did it for me. Everyone knows how I abhor name-calling and to say such a mean spirited thing when I was so worried about my son was not something that a friend would say. So I told her that her behavior was a 20 year pattern and that unless and until she could speak to me w/respect, not to speak to me at all. That was 3 years ago and the only time she has spoken to me is when I went to her husband's funeral. So clearly she feels that she cannot speak to me w/respect.

My life has been much calmer w/o her vitriol and downright nastiness. If she would call me now, I'd be pleasant and hope that she had learned her lesson. Unfortunately, I spoke to a mutual friend over Memorial Day weekend and she told me that this person hardly has any friends left b/c she treated them all the way she treated me. I would resume our friendship if she would change her attitude and the way she treats people but she hasn't so she can keep her distance. I don't want her to be lonely just as you don't want your friend to be lonely. However, it isn't up to us to entertain them, listen to their problems and then be treated w/disrespect. Your friend MAY be seeking help. Feel out the situation and if she hasn't changed, let her go. If she has, go slowly and see if you can resume the friendship.

[Marigold2]

Thank you Mary........How wise and kind you are. These women sound so alike it's scary.
I am very very sorry she said awful things to you when your son was ill, how painful that was.
Your friend was married, mine never was, did yours have children?
I guess the weight issue and low self esteem are often combined. I often wondered at what point you STOPPED looked at yourself and said, I am fat, I am 200 lbs or 250 or 300 lbs, I can't tie my shoes, go to the bathroom by myself, stand for long, live life to the fullest.
There is a lot of pain hiding in those layers of fat, once the pain is stripped away by therapy the fat melts as well. For some I am afraid the pain of weight is better then the pain of looking inside ones soul. It can be a sad sad world for some.

[Catty1]

I am sorry, pomtzu...I read your post twice but didn't 'see' your meaning. Sorry I jumped on you.

[Queen of Poop]

Good going Mary. You set rules and clearly she isn't willing to abide by your rules. Marigold, perhaps something you want to try with this "friend". Set out your rules for the friendship, similar to Mary's maybe, and see where it goes. Then the ball is back in her court and you needn't feel guilty if she does not maintain the friendship, because then it is her choice.

[Karen]

Another thought - might she be better with an animal friend? Could you convince her to volunteer at a shelter, even in a desk-type position that she could manage with her walker?

Animals can listen to vitriol all day and still will love you, if you love them and are responsible enough to care for them. Maybe an older cat or dog that doesn't require much exercise would help her focus on the present, and now dwell with such bitterness on the past? There's nothing like a cold wet nose or a persistent tapping paw to get one out of bed in the morning ...

[pomtzu]

I am sorry, pomtzu...I read your post twice but didn't 'see' your meaning. Sorry I jumped on you.

No problem kiddo! I appreciate that you acknowledged this - not all people would. Very admirable indeed. :)

And I really wasn't trying to be a smart-a$$. :eek: I've decided to turn over a new leaf, as impossible as that may sound........:p

[kitten645]

Life is too short to choose to surround yourself with miserable people. She made her bed. Harsh but true. You don't want to invite that negativity into your life. Sounds like she hasn't changed. The definition of insanity is to do the same things over and over and expect a different outcome. Cut your loses. :)

[cassiesmom]

At 66 she is still blaming her parents for a rotten childhood, he brothers for being evil and out to get her for money. She never married or had kids.
I just don't think I can do this folks. I can't listen to this same old complaints I heard 21 years ago. ... I just don't think I can take the vile, the poor me, the everyone out to get me, the no one cares about me, I am so alone speech again and again and again. ...
She did do a lot for me in the past but decided to break the friendship six years ago and I never knew why, so I asked and she said "I don't remember". ... I just don't think I can handle all this hate and negitive and trying to always be positive and up and be there for her, she is almost a full time job once she attaches herself to you.
No one should be alone but ,,,,,,,,,,,,, guys I just don't know what to do.

My two cents: Don't go there. Life is too short to be bogged down by someone who you know is going to be a huge strain on you. If she doesn't even remember why she ended your friendship six years ago, I don't think it's worth it you stepping in and trying to help her now. You can't let someone who is full of hatred and negativity sap all your energy.

((((((Marigold2))))),
elyse

[Cataholic]

Marigold- you do seem to struggle with other's appearances. Maybe it comes from working in a plastic surgeon's office? Maybe you think people really ARE what they look like. Dunno.

I think you need to read up a bit on food addiction, compulsive eating disorders, etc. It isn't really as simple as you seem to find it. It really isn't a matter of choosing between looking good/being healthy vs. putting McDonalds or the like into someone's mouth.

Food addiction/compulsive eating has long been recognized as a disease/disorder, not just a "choice".

No, I do not struggle with either, thank goodness. I am not making excuses for myself or anyone else. BUT, I do have a limited understanding of the area, and it isn't as simple or black/white as you make it seem. If it were? 99% of the people that struggled with weight loss wouldn't be struggling with it.

[Asiel]

Life is too short to choose to surround yourself with miserable people. She made her bed. Harsh but true. You don't want to invite that negativity into your life. Sounds like she hasn't changed. The definition of insanity is to do the same things over and over and expect a different outcome. Cut your loses. :)



I have to agree with that---life is just too stressful for everyone these days so why add more than you can handle.
I have a friend who weighs close to what this woman weighs but just so happens she's one of the nicest people know. She chooses to help others and be fun to be with. Sure, we've heard the comments. Like Mutt and Jeff or Jack Spratt and his wife..just rolls off her back and mine althougjh sometimes I wish I could slam some sense into these people. She has a medical problem that can't be fixed...

[carole]

I am going to agree with Kitten645 and Aisel, i may sound harsh but i would leave well alone, and i would not let her in to my life, obviously nothing about her has changed, and a lot of what is happening to her she brings upon herself, if she is such a negative, unkind person, what can you expect in return? and yes you can be addicted to food, but it is still up to you and you alone to try and do something about it, addictions can be overcome like anything else, with a lot of hard work and committment,and they never go away completely ,but you just have to work hard at keeping it at bay.

I would not think bad of you,if you did not renew this friendship, you have to think of your own well being as well here, negative people can make you so unhappy and cause so much stress in your life, and i speak from experience,to a point where you yourself could become ill from the stress of it all.

It may sound selfish,but sometimes you have to be selfish in order to protect yourself,you may well be taking on much more than you can handle, and it is not like you don't know what she is like.

My advice is to NOT get involved with her again. Take care now.

[Marigold2]

Did you read post 11? This has nothing to do with vanity or looks, this has to do with being so incredibly heavy this person could not get up by herself, she got stuck in chairs, broke chairs, could not walk but for a few minutes. The stress on her knees, heart and other vital organs is so great. If she fell down outside and no one was around she could/ would die from the elements.
What I meant by looking at one's self is once you get so heavy that the simpliest things in life become almost impossible will you have the strenght to admit you have a food addiction or do you just go on and eat yourself to death. The same can be said for a drug addict at what point do you look at yourself and say "I am dying and I need help"
This person has major issues and food is just a coverup to hide from the real truth, the question is when is the comfort of the drug (be it food, drugs, drink) no longer a comfort, when do you see the light at what weight do you stop? 700lbs 1000lb when they lift you out by crain is that when you say I have to change?


Marigold- you do seem to struggle with other's appearances. Maybe it comes from working in a plastic surgeon's office? Maybe you think people really ARE what they look like. Dunno.

I think you need to read up a bit on food addiction, compulsive eating disorders, etc. It isn't really as simple as you seem to find it. It really isn't a matter of choosing between looking good/being healthy vs. putting McDonalds or the like into someone's mouth.

Food addiction/compulsive eating has long been recognized as a disease/disorder, not just a "choice".

No, I do not struggle with either, thank goodness. I am not making excuses for myself or anyone else. BUT, I do have a limited understanding of the area, and it isn't as simple or black/white as you make it seem. If it were? 99% of the people that struggled with weight loss wouldn't be struggling with it.

[pomtzu]

I'm confused by the title of this thread - should have read "need some opinions please" - the way I see it anyway.

I really don't see that you were asking for advice, as it appears from your posts and your own answers to the issues, that you already had your mind made up before you posted the first word. :(

Everything you've said about her is negative - not a kind word at all. What was your friendship based on, because I didn't see anything positive that should have kept you in that "friendship" for as long as it lasted. :confused:

[Cataholic]

Marigold- you post all the time about vanity, it is difficult for me to read your OP without keeping in mind how you feel about looks. Sure, I read post number 11, it was, what, the 4th post you made on the topic? The others seemed a bit focused on her looks. Something I know you pride yourself on maintaining.

You sure have a weird assortment of "friends", they bring a lot of drama to the table, and you get right smack dab in the middle of it.

Life is too short (remember your veggie salad advice???), move on.