A very Bad Law

[lizbud]

A bill that passed both houses & now goes to the Govenor to sign into
Law. I really hope he vetoes it, but it's doubtful he will.:(



Lawmakers Approve Workplace Guns Bill
Some Exempt From Measure

POSTED: 9:16 am EST March 5, 2010


INDIANAPOLIS -- In a victory for gun rights over property rights, the Indiana General Assembly approved a bill that lets workers keep firearms locked in their cars in trunks or out of sight while parked on company property.

The Indiana House approved the bill 74-20 Thursday and the Senate passed it 41-9. It now goes to Gov. Mitch Daniels.

A last-minute compromise exempts some public utilities and chemical plants and agencies whose drivers transport developmentally disabled people.

The bill also exempts schools, child care centers, domestic violence shelters and group homes.

Opponents said the bill can lead to workplace violence. Supporters said it merely allows people with legal rights to carry weapons to keep them locked up in their cars at work.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Freedom]

As someone who was in a workplace when an ex came in and held his former wife hostage, requiring all of us to scurry out of the building on our hands and knees, I see NO reason for people to need guns in their cars at work!

Goodness, whatever are they thinking?

[Puckstop31]

All I can say is this... It all comes down to the root failure of every gun control law that ever was passed, or ever will be passed.


Only the law abiding care about gun laws. Pass all the "feel good" laws you want. Criminals will still do what criminals do.


End of story.

[DJFyrewolf36]

All I can say is this... It all comes down to the root failure of every gun control law that ever was passed, or ever will be passed.


Only the law abiding care about gun laws. Pass all the "feel good" laws you want. Criminals will still do what criminals do.


End of story.

I have to agree with you. A criminal has no care if he is breaking the law...if he did he wouldn't be a criminal.

[Lady's Human]

The first sentence SHOULD read "In a halfhearted victory for constitutional rights"

Because that's all it is.

[lizbud]

I guess I should feel lucky that THIS idea for a law got press coverage,
but did NOT make it into law.:rolleyes:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20102250470

[Lady's Human]

The criminals already carry guns in city parks.

THEY are the ones you should worry about!

[wombat2u2004]

I think disarming the public is a crazy idea.

[lizbud]

Nobody has said why having a gun in their car assures them any
protection. Oh yeah, tell the the looney bird at work to wait to fire
his gun , while you race outside to arm yourself.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I found this article addressing the same topic. I agree with the President
of Indiana Chamber of Commerce on this.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20103050339

[Lady's Human]

It avoids the idiocy in several cases where employees have been fired for having a gun on company property when all they did was have a gun in their car in the parking lot when they were coming back from hunting.

Besides, why should the company give a damn?

The all or nothing idiocy is annoying. You KNOW who you need to be worried about, pay attention to them, leave the law abiding population alone and stop trying to make criminals out of them.

[wombat2u2004]

You KNOW who you need to be worried about, pay attention to them, leave the law abiding population alone and stop trying to make criminals out of them.

Hear hear.

[Freedom]

I think -- scratch that, I KNOW -- that if one of the other folks working in our building had a gun in the car during the situation I lived through, things would have been a LOT messier than they were. The police took 27 hours, but they talked the guy out, no shots fired. Got him to let his ex wife out after barely 3 hours.

[Puckstop31]

Nobody has said why having a gun in their car assures them any
protection. Oh yeah, tell the the looney bird at work to wait to fire
his gun , while you race outside to arm yourself.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I found this article addressing the same topic. I agree with the President
of Indiana Chamber of Commerce on this.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20103050339

And just like EVERY time the anti-gun types preach that a pro-gun law will result in a blood bath... Peace breaks out.


Often, I find myself armed in places where it is technically a "gun free zone". I wonder what the property owner would do should I have the opportunity to save their life someday, due to me having that firearm?

Say what you want... I don't care and never will. God has granted mankind the right, via proven natural law, to defend himself. No government, no law can rightfully prohibit this right. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

I fully welcome any debate on this topic.


Support a cure for hoplophobia!!!!

[Puckstop31]

I think -- scratch that, I KNOW -- that if one of the other folks working in our building had a gun in the car during the situation I lived through, things would have been a LOT messier than they were. The police took 27 hours, but they talked the guy out, no shots fired. Got him to let his ex wife out after barely 3 hours.

You KNOW? Pray tell, how?

How many bad guys were there?

[Puckstop31]

Hear hear.

Uhhhhhhh....

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1736501,00.html



"But these changes have done nothing to reduce gun-related deaths, according to Samara McPhedran, a University of Sydney academic and coauthor of a soon-to-be-published paper that reviews a selection of previous studies on the effects of the 1996 legislation. The conclusions of these studies were "all over the place," says McPhedran. But by pulling back and looking purely at the statistics, the answer "is there in black and white," she says. "The hypothesis that the removal of a large number of firearms owned by civilians [would lead to fewer gun-related deaths] is not borne out by the evidence."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1736501,00.html#ixzz0hMmlXdL0"

[blue]

I would think those with irrational fears of inanimate objects would be behind a law like this, Im sure the criminals are fully behind this.

[wombat2u2004]

I think -- scratch that, I KNOW -- that if one of the other folks working in our building had a gun in the car during the situation I lived through, things would have been a LOT messier than they were. The police took 27 hours, but they talked the guy out, no shots fired. Got him to let his ex wife out after barely 3 hours.

And if that guy killed his wife, and then started on the rest of you one by one, and nobody else in the building had a gun ???? What then ????

[blue]

And if that guy killed his wife, and then started on the rest of you one by one, and nobody else in the building had a gun ???? What then ????

We need to stop bringing logic and common sense into this thread.

[wombat2u2004]

We need to stop bringing logic and common sense into this thread.

I know.
But it would make me feel a lot better if I could confront any potential house invaders with something a little more cleaner than my dads Jap sword.
Mind you, I wouldn't mind using the sword, but I think a bullet would be quicker, and less mess to clean up afterwards.

[blue]

I know.
But it would make me feel a lot better if I could confront any potential house invaders with something a little more cleaner than my dads Jap sword.

If Liz could, she would vote your right to defend yourself with your dads Jap sword illegal.

Logic and common sense have no meaning to the anti gun, anti self defense agenda.

[wombat2u2004]

If Liz could, she would vote your right to defend yourself with your dads Jap sword illegal.

Logic and common sense have no meaning to the anti gun, anti self defense agenda.

If that happens....I'll give it up to the authorities.
I do however, have two....the other I will hide :D:D

[lizbud]

It avoids the idiocy in several cases where employees have been fired for having a gun on company property when all they did was have a gun in their car in the parking lot when they were coming back from hunting.




Oh, I'm sure that happens all the time.:rolleyes: First place anyone wants to go after a weekend hunting trip, is work. Geeze.:rolleyes: Get real please.

[Lady's Human]

Oh, I'm sure that happens all the time.:rolleyes: First place anyone wants to go after a weekend hunting trip, is work. Geeze.:rolleyes: Get real please.

You have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

During hunting season half the maintenance staff is late to work. Why? They hunt in the morning then go to work.

Welcome to rural life.

[lizbud]

If Liz could, she would vote your right to defend yourself with your dads Jap sword illegal.

Logic and common sense have no meaning to the anti gun, anti self defense agenda.


Don't be putting words in my mouth blue. You don't know anything about
me. The fact is I am a gun owner & am applying for a carry permit. That still
doesn't mean people should be allowed to take a gun to work.

[wombat2u2004]

Don't be putting words in my mouth blue. You don't know anything about
me. The fact is I am a gun owner & am applying for a carry permit. That still
doesn't mean people should be allowed to take a gun to work.

But Liz, don't you think a gun should be where it can provide yourself with the best protection ????

[lizbud]

You have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

During hunting season half the maintenance staff is late to work. Why? They hunt in the morning then go to work.

Welcome to rural life.


I sure hope they don't have to serve the public. The smell would be pretty strong.:eek:

[blue]

Don't be putting words in my mouth blue. You don't know anything about
me. The fact is I am a gun owner & am applying for a carry permit. That still
doesn't mean people should be allowed to take a gun to work.

Where would you like me to put your words?

The people who have gone through the hoops to get permited are the ones I want carrying in the work place, not the nut jobs who want to shoot up the place. Besides this law isnt about taking firearms into the workplace, its about leaving them in their vehicles.

Dont you feel more comfortable knowing your coworkers firearms are in their cars while they are working and not on their person?

Out of curiousity, have all of you firearm fearing indeviduals stopped going to Starbucks?

[blue]

But Liz, don't you think a gun should be where it can provide yourself with the best protection ????

Apperently not.

[lizbud]

But Liz, don't you think a gun should be where it can provide yourself with the best protection ????


A just don't think people should ever be in a situation where they
need to carry personal protection 24/7. What kind of society is that?

A business owner should be able to provide a safe working enviroment
to it's employees. He should be able to ban guns in company parking
areas.

[wombat2u2004]

A just don't think people should ever be in a situation where they
need to carry personal protection 24/7. What kind of society is that?

A business owner should be able to provide a safe working enviroment
to it's employees. He should be able to ban guns in company parking
areas.

Should is the catch word here.

[Lady's Human]

I sure hope they don't have to serve the public. The smell would be pretty strong.:eek:

Any more stereotypes you want to toss out there?

[lizbud]

Should is the catch word here.


I knew you would understand Wom.:) Gotta run, my favorite movie
is on.:) ( A Streetcar Named Desire)

[wombat2u2004]

I knew you would understand Wom.:) Gotta run, my favorite movie
is on.:) ( A Streetcar Named Desire)

"The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" is a better movie.
They don't leave their guns in the their vehicles :D

[blue]

A just don't think people should ever be in a situation where they
need to carry personal protection 24/7. What kind of society is that?

I believe the cliche is, "A polite society".


A business owner should be able to provide a safe working enviroment
to it's employees. He should be able to ban guns in company parking
areas.

Take a look back on work place shootings. Now think, who had the firearm? If you said only the shooter you are, in the majority of cases, correct. Making a gun free zone in the work place is creating a victim rich environment for disgruntled employees.

[blue]

"The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" is a better movie.
They don't leave their guns in the their vehicles :D

I've got "Bonnie and Clyde" on next.

[wombat2u2004]

I've got "Bonnie and Clyde" on next.

You shouldn't watch shows like that Blue.
Oh....you mean the real Bonnie and Clyde movie ?? The Hollywood one??
I thought you meant the other one:D

[wombat2u2004]

This is what happens when you have been disarmed.
Anyone can take a potshot at you.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/wombat2u2004/Kokopupsmachine.jpg

[Puckstop31]

Oh, I'm sure that happens all the time.:rolleyes: First place anyone wants to go after a weekend hunting trip, is work. Geeze.:rolleyes: Get real please.


LOL

Just freaking LOL. You are amazingly naive for living in state full of 'country' folks.

[Puckstop31]

You have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

During hunting season half the maintenance staff is late to work. Why? They hunt in the morning then go to work.

Welcome to rural life.

I bring my gear to work all the time.... So I can get to the stand ASAP after work.

[Puckstop31]

A just don't think people should ever be in a situation where they
need to carry personal protection 24/7. What kind of society is that?

Its the reality of the world in which we live. Key word here being REALITY.



Business owner should be able to provide a safe working enviroment
to it's employees. He should be able to ban guns in company parking
areas.

The first sentence is mutually exclusive of the second. LAWFULLY abiding gun owners in a work evnvironment IS a safe environment.


The primary owner of our company used to think like you do. Then I shared with him some history and showed him some facts. Guess what? He is now a CCW permit holder and a lifetime NRA member.

Facts trump fear EVERY time Liz. Thats why I encourage you to share WHY you think what you do.

[blue]

LAWFULLY abiding gun owners in a work evnvironment IS a safe environment.

Why do you gun totin hottentots keep bringing common sense into this ladys thread?

[Lady's Human]

Hottentots? HOTTENTOTS????

:eek:

[lizbud]

Taking the side of business instead of the individual is not a usual thing
with me, but this proposed law is a bad idea no matter what or who
proposed it. It clearly is a matter of gun rights vs property rights, as it
wants to deny property owners from banning guns on their property.

I'm very glad I am not the only one who agrees, this is a bad idea.:)

http://www.indianaprosperity.org/issue_alert.asp?g=indiana&issue=Firearms_Bill&parent=INDIANA

[blue]

You gotta love the fearmongering in the OpEd.

[wombat2u2004]

Write bigger Blue, I'm hiding behind the desk :D

[blue]

You gotta love the fearmongering in the OpEd.

And if property rights trump individual rights, property owners should be able to allow smoking in their establishments.

[wombat2u2004]

You gotta love the fearmongering in the OpEd.

And if property rights trump individual rights, property owners should be able to allow smoking in their establishments.


That's right !!!! And booze, and women of ill repute.
The possibilities are endless.

[lizbud]

Tuesday, March 9, 2010
Lawmakers OK guns at work; Portage worker opens fire


Talk about bad timing.

I usually don't agree with much that the Indiana Chamber of Commerce has to say, but on the issue of guns in the workplace I have to agree with the chamber folks -- guns don't belong at work.

Ironically, the day after the General Assembly passed a law allowing Hoosier to take their guns to work as long as they keep them locked in their car or truck, an "angry worker at the Department of Workforce Development in Portage walked out to his car, grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun, and fired into his office," The Post-Tribune reported.

Here's more from the P-T:

"All of the arguments against this are now coming true," State Rep. Charlie Brown, D-Gary, said when he was told about the shooting Friday. "I'm sorry to hear that. I really am."

Supporters say the bill protects the Second Amendment rights of Hoosiers, making sure they are able to protect themselves while they are at the workplace.

"It goes back to the fundamental constitutional right to bear arms," (State Sen. Ed) Charbonneau, R-Valparaiso, said.

Gov. Mitch Daniels didn't commit to signing the bill when he met with reporters Friday. He said he wants to read it first. Republican Daniels is flirting with the idea of a presidential bid in 2012. It'll be interesting to see how he handles a bill championed by the NRA.

But Brown called out the powerful lobbying group before the House's vote on the bill. He joined local lawmakers who included Smith and Randolph in speaking out against it, saying the NRA's influence cuts across party lines.

"I think once and for all we need to tell the NRA, 'Hell, no, you don't have a stranglehold on this chamber,'" Brown said. "I'm not afraid of the NRA."

Northern Lake County lawmakers told their colleagues the legislation wasn't popular in their hometowns and crosses a dangerous line. They argued the owners of private properties should decide whether guns are present.

"I think we're violating a very personal right," (State Rep.) Vernon Smith, D-Gary, said.

In that much, Smith and Charbonneau might agree. Charbonneau said the bill might end up in a courtroom to sort out the conflict between the rights of property owners and gun owners.

But Charbonneau said he chose to vote with the constitution.

"It's not an easy issue to decide where to come down," Charbonneau said.
Posted by Terry Burns at 4:05 AM

[Puckstop31]

Tuesday, March 9, 2010
Lawmakers OK guns at work; Portage worker opens fire


Talk about bad timing.

I usually don't agree with much that the Indiana Chamber of Commerce has to say, but on the issue of guns in the workplace I have to agree with the chamber folks -- guns don't belong at work.

... <snip>



A sad story indeed. Explain to me how a "no guns at work" law would have prevented this. See, there are so many other questions to ask and issues to be addressed.

Would this law grant an employer the right to search employees cars? Are we really willing to give up personal privacy rights for a job?

I say again... All the gun laws in the world won't stop this stuff from happening. Because only the law abiding will follow the law. All the emotional "feel good" law in the world won't change it.

[Cataholic]

I am 44 years old, something I don't like to publically admit (j/k, kind of). In 44 years, I have never felt the need to bring a gun to work, or anywhere else. I did have a pocket knife on my key chain once. That thing was so handy, too. But, a gun? Never.

And, if my employer wants to search my car? Go for it. Watch out for the used tissues from the chronically infested sinus cavity I call J, and zone bar wrappers. Oh, yeah, also, that cup that had milk in it from the am? Can you rinse that out, too?

I don't care who searches my car- search away. But, if you steal a Wiggles CD, you are in for it, Mister.

[Puckstop31]

I am 44 years old, something I don't like to publically admit (j/k, kind of). In 44 years, I have never felt the need to bring a gun to work, or anywhere else. I did have a pocket knife on my key chain once. That thing was so handy, too. But, a gun? Never.

And, if my employer wants to search my car? Go for it. Watch out for the used tissues from the chronically infested sinus cavity I call J, and zone bar wrappers. Oh, yeah, also, that cup that had milk in it from the am? Can you rinse that out, too?

I don't care who searches my car- search away. But, if you steal a Wiggles CD, you are in for it, Mister.

I see where you are coming from. But, again, this is not about a 'need'. Its about passing another stupid law that will do zero to prevent workplace shootings. All it would do (if I did not work for myself that is) is hassle people like me and many others who hunt/target shoot/other legal gun use and want to go straight to or from said activity to or from work.

Its like every state that has passed a shall issue CCW law... Just about every time the Brady Campaign and the like freaks out and says its going to be the Wild West... And in every case, it does not happen.

I know it is hard for some people to fathom, but more guns in the hands of LEGAL and LAW ABIDING people means less violent crime. The FBI crime statistics do not lie.

[lizbud]

[SIZE="4"]

And if property rights trump individual rights, property owners should be able to allow smoking in their establishments.


Are you sitting down? I agree with you.

[lizbud]

I am 44 years old, something I don't like to publically admit (j/k, kind of). In 44 years, I have never felt the need to bring a gun to work, or anywhere else. I did have a pocket knife on my key chain once. That thing was so handy, too. But, a gun? Never.




I feel the same way and am amazed & kinda shocked that some people
are so afraid for their very lives & must have access to a weapon at all times.

I really see this bill as a unwelcome denial of property rights.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=40157

[Puckstop31]

I feel the same way and am amazed & kinda shocked that some people
are so afraid for their very lives & must have access to a weapon at all times.

That is not even close to why I carry a gun. It has nothing to do with fear.


I really see this bill as a unwelcome denial of property rights.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=40157

I can see this being true. The problem is such a law will not have the desired effect.

[blue]

I agree with you.

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

[lizbud]

It was bound to happen sooner or later.


Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day.:D LOL

[Catty1]

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Calling Mr. Ripley...*dialing*

[wombat2u2004]

Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day.:D LOL

HAH !!!! What a comeback.....luv it !!!!! hee hee :D:D

[Puckstop31]

Dip...Dive...Duck...Dodge...and.....Dodge.


I don't blame ya...

[lizbud]

The problem is such a law will not have the desired effect.


WE don't really need a law. The people who want to carry a gun on to
a Company parking lot, should just park some place else, off the Company
property. Nobodys rights will be violated.

[blue]

WE don't really need a law. The people who want to carry a gun on to
a Company parking lot, should just park some place else, off the Company
property. Nobodys rights will be violated.

This guy...


"angry worker at the Department of Workforce Development in Portage walked out to his car, grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun, and fired into his office,"

could have been parked on the street it doesnt say in the article.

Company parking lot or parked at the curb, opposing this law will not stop workplace shootings.

Opposing this law is a feel good measure, thinking you've done something. In reality you are only helping create more victims.

[Puckstop31]

I get the property rights aspect of this, I do. Heck, I even agree!


It does create a interesting dilemma however. Does my employer have the right to deny me my right to defend myself? Probably so I guess. But it is the height of paranoia for a employer to think that preventing gun posession on their property will prevent crazy people from doing what they do.

Again, because only the law abiding obey the law...