Killer Whale kills trainer

[boomersooner]

Did you all hear about the orca whale at Sea World Orlando who grabbed his trainer and killed her right before a show was about to start? How terrible for the little kids watching.....Wild animals are wild animals....no matter how "tame" they appear.....The news said this was the third death for him...a biology student and a college age kid who snuck in his tank were also killed by him throughout the past years. And the sad thing is he would never survive going back into the ocean....

[Twisterdog]

He never should have been taken out of the ocean to begin with, therein lies the problem. :(

[boomersooner]

Great point!!!! and then when stuff like this happens or they aren't "trainable" what in the world happens to them? I don't even want to think.....

[Daisy and Delilah]

He never should have been taken out of the ocean to begin with, therein lies the problem. :(

Just what I want to say. :(

[blue]

Most of the mammals in places like Seaworld are rescued as youngsters or injured from the wild, not captured for our own amusement like in the 1800s. While Im for nature taking care of nature, places like Seaworld do allot to educate the masses, washed and unawashed alike.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

He never should have been taken out of the ocean to begin with, therein lies the problem. :(

Exactly!

[Daisy and Delilah]

The local news here is saying the whale may have been depressed. He was known to have problems and should not have been approached. Isn't it the nature of these whales to attack in certain cases? They have him living in a tank that is very small. He weighs 12,000 pounds. Killer whale with all these conditions = disaster. Why are the media acting so surprised by this??:confused: :confused: :confused:


I just can't watch anymore of it. May this lady rest in peace and her family have the strength to move forward. As experienced as she was, I know she knew the dangers involved. It's an incredibly sad story, all the way around.:(

[lizbud]

It's really sad for her & her famiy.:( This reminds me of the chimp
that a lady kept as a pet. He grew to adult size & attacked a friend
of the family. The woman now has no face & no hands.:(

What part of "wild animals" don't they understand? :confused:

[Catherinedana]

Reminds me of a poigniant moment from "Stories From the Nerve Bible" by Laurie Anderson:

John Lilly, the guy who claims he can talk to dolphins. . . One day he was swimming in an aquarium and a whale kept asking him the same question. . . telepathically. . . over and over again “do all oceans have walls?”

:(

[Catherinedana]

And also this quote: Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.


They have a responsibility to that whale - it is not his fault that he now lives in captivity and is neurotic or depressed because of it.

Believe it or not, I do not advocate the keeping of birds as pets for the same reason. I live with my flock because now SOMEONE must be responsible for their lives. It would be a wonderful thing if all birds were free to fly where they belong. No feather-plucking Quakers, no self-mutilating cockatoos.

[pomtzu]

Most of the mammals in places like Seaworld are rescued as youngsters or injured from the wild, not captured for our own amusement like in the 1800s. While Im for nature taking care of nature, places like Seaworld do allot to educate the masses, washed and unawashed alike.

I'm not being mean or less then compassionate, but perhaps it's time for man to not intervene in every instance, and let nature take it's natural course.

These huge mammals are not meant to be kept in a tank. Of course he was probably depressed. One could probably compare it to a person living his life in a small closet.

I remember one thing I actually learned from the movie "Free Willy". When the dorsal fin of these animals is not held up straight, and is curved or bent over, that is a sign that they are distressed, depressed, or otherwise unhealthy. Check out the fin of the whale that killed the trainer - bent over.... :(

[Twisterdog]

I'm not being mean or less then compassionate, but perhaps it's time for man to not intervene in every instance, and let nature take it's natural course.

These huge mammals are not meant to be kept in a tank. Of course he was probably depressed. One could probably compare it to a person living his life in a small closet.


Exactly.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I would be depressed too if I were confined and made to do tricks every day. What gets me are these ignorant news people that act like the whale was just having a bad day.:eek::confused:
DUH!!! It's their nature!!

[RICHARD]

I would be depressed too if I were confined and made to do tricks every day.

OMG!

I thought you were an fine, upstanding member here on PT!:eek:;)

[wombat2u2004]

Ya don't mess with wild animals !!!!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/wombat2u2004/19.jpg

[wombat2u2004]

And ya don't stop for them either !!!! :p

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/wombat2u2004/13-1.jpg

[RICHARD]

Here's some of my "Rules for Living with Nature"?

Know your animals.

Animals with adjectives or verbs as part of their names are trouble.
Example?

Cottonmouth Water Moccasin
Army Ant
Carpenter Ant
Grizzly Bear
Fire Ant
Killer Whale
Boa Constrictors
Death Adders
Spitting Cobras
Alligator snapping turtles

Got it?

This rule can be applied to people too.

Immediate Boss
Convicted (anything)
Professional (anything)

See the connection?

--------------


Wom,
Is that a ghost working the camera in the picure?

[wombat2u2004]

Wom,
Is that a ghost working the camera in the picure?

I tink it could be !!! Hehehe

[Grace]

Free him, or put him out of his misery.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/26/velez.mitchell.killer.whale/index.html?hpt=T2

[pomtzu]

Free him, or put him out of his misery.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/26/velez.mitchell.killer.whale/index.html?hpt=T2

Agreed. But unfortunately if he is freed, he would end up dying because he doesn't know how to fend for himself.

But Seaworld would probably feel better about that, than euthanizing him. That way, they wouldn't have to face the end result of their folly! :mad:

[Pep]

I feel bad about it because I think that he thought he was playing with the trainer. I was discussing with my coworkers and we couldn't agree on whether he actually considered her prey or not.

The whale obviously doesn't know that what he did was wrong and I can't decide if punishing him would be fair. It is an extremely unfortunate incident. Animals in captivity for that long.. are bound to snap. Right?

[IRescue452]

She probably looked like a seal in the wetsuit. I always wondered how on earth they feed these beasts. Killer whales eat seals weighing in at hundreds of pounds as mere snacks. They also eat other (larger) whales. Do you think seaworld has enough buckets of chum to satisfy a whale's needs for life? I actually like the idea of this happening in front of an audience. It shows people that whales aren't cute and cuddley like Lisa Frank would want you to think. You can't stick your head in the sand forever.

[lvpets2002]

:( Whats so bad is this was the third death that this whale has done.. Also the very first owners before Sea World had told of the past two deaths he done.. Also this guy said the whale was only to be used as a Stud for breeding at Sea World.. That was part of the aggreement of the sale to Sea World..

[Catty1]

One of the deaths was a homeless fellow who hid in the Park til after closing time....he wanted to 'ride the whale'. Hard to blame Tillikum for that one.

As to whether he was playing...one whale person said that killer whales can tear apart blue whales. So - if Tillikum's intentions were savage ones, it would have been way worse!:(

Saw the swinging ponytail and was like a cat?

[lvpets2002]

:) Yes I so agree.. I saw her pony tail & was so suprised that she was allowed to wear her hair like that while performing with the whale.. She should of had it put up.. I think he was playing & for sure did not know what he had done.. I wish they could put him in a place on his own & or maybe with a mate & just leave him alone.. I aggree with the others they are not meant to perform & do what they do.. They are suppose to be wild..
One of the deaths was a homeless fellow who hid in the Park til after closing time....he wanted to 'ride the whale'. Hard to blame Tillikum for that one.

As to whether he was playing...one whale person said that killer whales can tear apart blue whales. So - if Tillikum's intentions were savage ones, it would have been way worse!:(

Saw the swinging ponytail and was like a cat?

[Karen]

Here's some of my "Rules for Living with Nature"?

Know your animals.

Animals with adjectives or verbs as part of their names are trouble.
Example?

Cottonmouth Water Moccasin
Army Ant
Carpenter Ant
Grizzly Bear
Fire Ant
Killer Whale
Boa Constrictors
Death Adders
Spitting Cobras
Alligator snapping turtles

Got it?


But what about

Golden Retrievers
Wirehaired Pointing Griffon
Painted Turtles
Longhaired Cat

adjectives and verbs abound ...

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Most of the mammals in places like Seaworld are rescued as youngsters or injured from the wild, not captured for our own amusement like in the 1800s. While Im for nature taking care of nature, places like Seaworld do allot to educate the masses, washed and unawashed alike.

So show them a video of the creatures roaming free in the sea/wild like they were meant to be. Not jumping and doing tricks like a trained dog. :love:

[pomtzu]

Another thing I find odd. The guy that was drunk and broke in to ride the whale, was found on the whale's back. If the whale had killed the guy it seems strange that he would be swimming around with him on his back. That sounds more to me like he was trying to save him by keeping him above water.

Anyone else find this strange????? :confused:

[Kirsten]

These huge mammals are not meant to be kept in a tank. Of course he was probably depressed. One could probably compare it to a person living his life in a small closet.

I absolutely agree! As much as I regret the death of his trainer, and as much as I'm feeling sorry for her loved ones, I guess this is just another proof that mankind's going way too far by using other forms of life for its own entertainment. Accidents like this should be an eye opener for future generations to treat animals with more respect.

Of course I know it's not that simple. And maybe I don't even have the right to judge as I have pets, two indoor cats, prisoners of my house, so to speak... Where's the difference? Where should the line be drawn? Is it a crime to have pets at all? Or does that go only for some special breeds? Are all zoos evil? For many years, I refused to visit any zoos, because I just thought that animals don't belong there. Meanwhile, I changed my mind a bit. In this world of ours, the natural environments for animals are fading, life in the wild is no fun for many of them. So zoos and wildlife parks may be a safer environment for some animals. And, after all, many zoos these days try to provide better, more natural enclosures for their animals. And, last but not least, zoos may have another mission: "Men are willing to protect what they know and love". By having the chance to see these beautiful animals, men will become aware of their problems and may feel the need to protect their environment, and their lives.

But no matter how you put it, in the end, you'll always come to the point that it's been our own species that brought everything out of balance. We should be ashamed of that instead of referring to us as "creation's crowning glory" (always hated that term anyway).

Incidents like the one in Orlando are reminders to us to reconsider the ways we're treating this planet and everything/everyone on it.

Kirsten

[RICHARD]

But what about

Golden Retrievers
Wirehaired Pointing Griffon
Painted Turtles
Longhaired Cat

adjectives and verbs abound ...

I was aiming towards the pets with the sketchy sounding names!

How can you be afraid of a painted turtle?:D

[pomtzu]

Good post Kirsten. There are so many variables, that there really is no black or white, but common sense should prevail. Unfortunately, it doesn't most of the time.

Our pets - dogs and cats mostly - are domesticated - and can't really be classed with the animals we see in zoos or preserves and parks. I really believe that they are happy and safest where they are.

Many places for the "wild" animals now are so much more suited than the zoo environment. They have acres upon acres to run free and safely be enclosed within the confines of a given area, and people can ride thru and view them in a more natural setting, and they can be maintained to be healthy and well adjusted at the same time.

However - how do you give a mammoth creature like a killer whale a safe and comfortable place to live in confinement?? I don't believe it's possible, and it should never be done. Man is sacrificing this animal's health and well being for their own pleasures, and in turn he must be ready to suffer the consequences that will, and have already, come with it.

[lizbud]

However - how do you give a mammoth creature like a killer whale a safe and comfortable place to live in confinement?? I don't believe it's possible, and it should never be done. Man is sacrificing this animal's health and well being for their own pleasures, and in turn he must be ready to suffer the consequences that will, and have already, come with it.


This idea is a reality now. From the article Grace posted. We should
probably keep the whales in coastal Sanctuaries described here. A much
better enviroment for them.


"Tilikum has spent more than a quarter of a century swimming in circles, in a space that critics say would be equivalent to keeping a human being in a bathtub. Would you get resentful, angry, maybe even a little rageful and psychotic if you were kept in a bathtub-sized tank forced to swim in circles for more than 25 years?

The time has come to free Tilikum. Brazil and Chile are just two countries that have created huge coastal sanctuaries, some running thousands of miles, where whales like Tilikum can return to an active life, one in which they can frolic and explore. This is how nature intended these creatures to live. "

[Catlady711]

Just saw on the news yesterday that one of the trainers sisters is a dentist.

She used to work for my dentist at one time and did one of my fillings a few years ago. Dr. Frogameni was a very nice lady, my sympathies to her and the rest of the family.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/national_world&id=7297588

[Daisy and Delilah]

omg!

I thought you were an fine, upstanding member here on pt!:eek:;)

:) :) :)
You are killin me !! :)

[pomtzu]

This idea is a reality now. From the article Grace posted. We should
probably keep the whales in coastal Sanctuaries described here. A much
better enviroment for them.


"Tilikum has spent more than a quarter of a century swimming in circles, in a space that critics say would be equivalent to keeping a human being in a bathtub. Would you get resentful, angry, maybe even a little rageful and psychotic if you were kept in a bathtub-sized tank forced to swim in circles for more than 25 years?

The time has come to free Tilikum. Brazil and Chile are just two countries that have created huge coastal sanctuaries, some running thousands of miles, where whales like Tilikum can return to an active life, one in which they can frolic and explore. This is how nature intended these creatures to live. "

Yes - I understand that there are coastal sanctuaries, and that is all well and good. However what I was referring to, is the confinement of the animals in a park setting, where people come to see them perform. There is no safe and humane way to do this, and unfortunately, these animals will probably continue to be exploited for the almighty dollar that they bring in to these parks.

[lizbud]

Yes - I understand that there are coastal sanctuaries, and that is all well and good. However what I was referring to, is the confinement of the animals in a park setting, where people come to see them perform. There is no safe and humane way to do this, and unfortunately, these animals will probably continue to be exploited for the almighty dollar that they bring in to these parks.



You are absolutely right.


ps. A similar case could be made for the elephants in zoos. A horrible situation for these animals.

[Kalei]

Has anyone actually seen the video of this poor woman being killed? It sounds like some of you have, but I can't find the video of it anywhere.

[RICHARD]

Even with 'protected areas/viewing areas'?

Here in So Cal you can do this

http://www.newportwhales.com/

Interesting? But how many rules are borken an other animals impacted by people running boats across migration lanes?

There is a 'buffer zone/rules' that forbid contact or ships with a certain number of feet, but how can you impress that upon a whale, dolphin or sea lion.

Then you have the sea lions here in So Cal.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/06/local/me-sealions6

We protect them and they literally poop on us.

:o:rolleyes::D

[phesina]

This idea is a reality now. From the article Grace posted. We should
probably keep the whales in coastal Sanctuaries described here. A much
better enviroment for them.


"Tilikum has spent more than a quarter of a century swimming in circles, in a space that critics say would be equivalent to keeping a human being in a bathtub. Would you get resentful, angry, maybe even a little rageful and psychotic if you were kept in a bathtub-sized tank forced to swim in circles for more than 25 years?

The time has come to free Tilikum. Brazil and Chile are just two countries that have created huge coastal sanctuaries, some running thousands of miles, where whales like Tilikum can return to an active life, one in which they can frolic and explore. This is how nature intended these creatures to live. "

Could Tilikum be brought to one of these sanctuaries, to live out the rest of his life as a whale like him should?

[pomtzu]

You are absolutely right.


ps. A similar case could be made for the elephants in zoos. A horrible situation for these animals.

Yes I was thinking of the elephants too. Even tho the zoo setting is far from ideal, and they would do better to be homed in a preserve, it still beats the circus elephant's life. IMO - it should be illegal to have elephant circus acts. Those great creatures are some of the most abused animals today - and at the hands of their trainers!

[pomtzu]

Has anyone actually seen the video of this poor woman being killed? It sounds like some of you have, but I can't find the video of it anywhere.

I don't believe there is one. Even if there is, you can probably be certain that it will never be made public.

I, for one, wouldn't care to view it.........

[Asiel]

Yes - I understand that there are coastal sanctuaries, and that is all well and good. However what I was referring to, is the confinement of the animals in a park setting, where people come to see them perform. There is no safe and humane way to do this, and unfortunately, these animals will probably continue to be exploited for the almighty dollar that they bring in to these parks.


I have to agree that the confining animals or sea mammals is absolutely wrong. Even unjured they should be left where they are and let nature take it's course. How many times do we see aquariums with fish and admire them, but in reality many people have no clue as what species can be kept with other species, they have no knowledge of the room these fish need and sometimes overstock the tanks, then there's the pumps and oxygen to consider, cleaning, just so many other things to get educated about. I love to watch fish in aquariums but could never devote the time and attention needed to keep them healthy and alive.
I'm hoping the whale will be turned over to a sanctuary and not just dumped back into the ocean to a certain death. I couldn't watch the whole video, not something you want to see.

[Daisy and Delilah]

This morning, I heard the Sea World people have the film of the attack. They said they are givng it to investigators to help with the case.

There are some amateur films out there but I'm not sure if they are of the actual attack.

[lizbud]

Could Tilikum be brought to one of these sanctuaries, to live out the rest of his life as a whale like him should?



Yes, it could be done, but it won't likely happen. It all comes down to
$$$$$. I doubt sea world would ever part with their money maker.:(

[pomtzu]

Yes, it could be done, but it won't likely happen. It all comes down to
$$$$$. I doubt sea world would ever part with their money maker.:(

He won't be released according to news reports I heard this a.m.

His chances of survival, even in an offshore sanctuary, would be slim, after 25 years in captivity. Wildlife "experts" said he doesn't have the survival skills needed, and he could be attacked by other males if he tried to join a pod.

So man has pretty much written this creature's death sentence for him, and he has really been dying a slow death for the past 25 years, while big corporations enjoy the money that he has made for them.

What a shame! :mad:

[Kalei]

I don't believe there is one. Even if there is, you can probably be certain that it will never be made public.

I, for one, wouldn't care to view it.........

Yeah, you are probably right. I just wanted to know what the truth was, if he was just playing or if he actually attacked her aggressively, cause there seems to be two rumors going on.

[phesina]

He won't be released according to news reports I heard this a.m.

His chances of survival, even in an offshore sanctuary, would be slim, after 25 years in captivity. Wildlife "experts" said he doesn't have the survival skills needed, and he could be attacked by other males if he tried to join a pod.

So man has pretty much written this creature's death sentence for him, and he has really been dying a slow death for the past 25 years, while big corporations enjoy the money that he has made for them.

What a shame! :mad:

How very sad. WHY are so many of us humans so twisted?

[wombat2u2004]

So man has pretty much written this creature's death sentence for him, and he has really been dying a slow death for the past 25 years, while big corporations enjoy the money that he has made for them.

Not all of man. Only those who believe that the dollar is mightier than anything else.

[blue]

Lets not forget the educational value that comes from these animals or the scientific studies that go on.

[wombat2u2004]

Lets not forget the educational value that comes from these animals or the scientific studies that go on.

What educational value would an Orca held in captivity for the amusement of people possibly contribute ????

There is a line to be drawn I believe. Not that I like what goes on, on both sides of the line, but sometimes it is necessary for scientific purposes.
My daughter does SIDS research, and she uses baby pigs (not sure of the link between humans and pigs, but she assures me that baby pigs are what they learn from). But those baby pigs are bred specifically for research purposes, and yeah, they die, but in a very humane way. And she assures me that there is no cruelty at all involved in her work. Still, if her work requires that, then so be it, but I still don't have to like what she does.

I believe in the case of the Orca, that there are too many bucks involved. That whale is kept there not for any educational value OR scientific study....it's there to make dollars for it's owners.....and this conclusion is substantiated by the fact that the animal is kept in such as small enclosure and taught to do tricks.

[wombat2u2004]

I guess this is just another proof that mankind's going way too far by using other forms of life for its own entertainment.


That's always been so.....all the way thru history.
If those corporations could get away with it, I bet they'd reinstate gladiatorial contests between humans.

[lizbud]

Some people questioned putting Tilikum back in the wild. I read a
article from someone how knows his chances of surviving. Interesting.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/27/rose.whale.keiko/index.html

[Catty1]

That was really interesting, lizbud.

I bet many members of the public would donate to help return Tillikum to the Iceland pen, if that decision was made. Hopefully some rescue groups like the writer's have contacted Seaworld, and their offers at least considered. I don't think the final decision has been made on Tillikum yet.

[Smarties]

Well, this is gonna be a long post, so listen carefully.

The whale shouldnt have been taken OUT of her habitiat in the first place. It's bad to take it out of it's N-A-T-U-R-A-L habitat!!!!!!! God made it there, in the Ocean, to be there as long as it lives. Not to be trained in some fish park and be aggravated and frustrated everyday! It's the animal keepers fault for the death of them. They should have left it in the ocean. Period end of story.

May the poor lady Rest In Peace, and may the whale be released to the natural habitiat it once lived in.

[Alysser]

I felt the same way as many of you did not too long ago. I loved zoos and aquariums when I was litte, but I often found myself questioning their usage and if they were justified. When I was 12, and incredibly determined to be a Marine Scientist (STILL am!) I visited the Mote Aquarium in Florida and talked to a very intelligent man who had a PhD in my dream field and what he said made alot of sense to me, which is probably the only reason I remember it. :D Aquariums and Zoos are generally there for educational purposes, breeding programs, wildlife rescue and rehabilitation, and general entertainment. He said, he didn't believe SeaWorld really was like this because he doesn't like to hear about animals being made to do tricks either - I mean where's the education in that? But I personally believe many Aquariums and Zoos are thrown down the drain with things like the circus, roadside zoos, and generally any aquarium [and zoo] that doesn't know how to take care of their animals.

If you want species to be saved, habitats to be preserved, myths of certain animals [such as sharks] squashed, and animals kept in their natural habitat then you have no choice but to educate the masses, continue scientific research, get people out to see these animals up close. I for one, think this is a good way to do that - GOOD zoos and aquariums. People will never understand the importance of species, habitat preservation - if they are not educated on the matter. What is sadder to you? Species being completely wiped-out or thrown out of their habitat or being in captivity and well taken care of? There is no doubt that zoos and aquariums have impacted wild animal #'s for the better. The panda recently released into the wild in China was born in captivity at the Washington DC National Zoo. They're given 2 pandas if they promise that when they breed them the babies are given back to China to continue to help the growing panda population. The Boston Aquarium takes injured baby turtles or baby turtles that have never made it to the ocean into their care where they are rehabilitated and put back into the wild. The Mote Aquarium does the same for baby whales and dolphins. They also capture birds caught in oil spills and clean the up and rehabilitate them - then release them. I think it's a fabulous thing what these Zoos are doing. Why should an animal be "left to die" and "let nature take it course" when it can be saved by people? No only does that diminish the population, but it is also hypocritical. That's like saying pets should be left to die if they can be saved...:/

This issue is based on morals - entirely, and it's not that I don't believe in animals roaming free in their natural habitat, because I really do. But I don't think good zoos and aquariums with these kinds of programs should be coupled with the several bad ones out there. I DON'T like the fact that the animals are made to do tricks either, because I don't feel it's at all educational. But parks like SeaWorld have uncovered countless things scientifically and I believe the programs in some zoos and aquariums can help save species, maybe they only have a small impact, but an impact is an impact. Don't forget here, that it is also man ruining the NATURAL habitats of these animals.

That's not to say all zoos and aquariums are well-maintained and beneficial to preserving wild animals, because they're certainly not. I hate Circuses, road-side zoos, and the like just as much as the next person. But for all the people who are against zoos and aquariums, you all have pets, is it NOT the same thing? I mean, indirectly, it is. And of course, there are - the rare instances in which a case like this comes up, and it really is sad all around the spectrum. It causes us to question the rights of keeping and animal in captivity, but I still stand by what I said before. There are pros and cons to this issue - but personally I think the pros outway the cons.

Just a few things to keep in mind.

[Smarties]

I totally agree

[DJFyrewolf36]

Good post Alysser...exactly what I was thinking.