Figure Skating

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I saw a few replies in the Question of The Day for Jan. 16th asking about the Olympics where people replied that they like figure skating.

Thought I'd open a topic to discuss skating.

I've been a fan since the Harding/Kerrigan "whack heard round the world". I used to watch every single thing on tv and we still go to as many live events that come to Philly as we can. But, my interest has been slacking off because of a few things:
1) poor tv coverage (due to a dying interest in the sport)
2) I hate the new judging system
3) The faces/names I started loving the sport with are all retiring and moving on to other things in their lives

I've attended Stars On Ice every year since 1995....the show is not coming to Philadelphia this year so I'm pretty disappointed about that. I can understand why, though. It went from the show being sold out to the lower bowl of the Wachovia Center not even being 1/2 full. I also attended the Champions on Ice Show every year since 1995 until it's demise in, I think, 2007.

I also attended a pro-am event in 1995. Parts of the 1998 US Nationals in Philadelphia. Shows I've seen besides SOI and COI are: Scott Hamilton & Friends, Kristy Yamaguchi's Salute to American Music, Country on Ice and Fashion on Ice.

My favorite skaters still skating are Kurt Browning, Katia Gordeeva, Ilia Kulik, John Zimmerman.
There are many others I enjoy, but many of them have retired...like Barbara Underhill and Paul Martini.
It'd be a pretty long list if I listed all the skaters I especially enjoy, but I appreciate the work they all put into their sport. There are a few I just absolutely do not like, though.

I prefer the professional skaters over the eligible skaters, especially since this new scoring system went into effect. The eligibles who are getting ready to retire from Olympic eligiblility need to carve out a niche for themselves the way Scott Hamilton helped create the Stars On Ice show. There is little for the Pro's to participate in to showcase their talent and skills.

I've shaken hands with Kristy Yamaguchi, Jamie Sale, Elena Bereznyaya and Anton Sikhurlidze and Alexei Yagudin.

Even though I've attended some of the "skaters with musical guests" shows, I do not like watching them on tv because of the splitting back & forth between the musical guest and the skater. There is nothing worse than the cameras moving away from Kurt Browning doing his footwork!

Here's one of the best pictures I ever took at an ice shows, Sasha Cohen, one of my personal favorite skaters:


http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs026.snc1/2651_68191517856_518402856_1493263_8227237_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1493266&id=518402856)

[lvpets2002]

:) I just Love to watch Figure Skating.. I have never done it.. Would like to try some day.. Of course would need alot of padding on due to I am sure I would fall alot.. However I still Love watching & dreaming..

[Grace]

Here's one of the best pictures I ever took at an ice shows, Sasha Cohen, one of my personal favorite skaters:


http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs026.snc1/2651_68191517856_518402856_1493263_8227237_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1493266&id=518402856)

The picture is spectacular!! You must have been sitting in the first row.

I remember watching Lyudmila Belousova and Oleg Protopopov - the great Russian pair who invented the Death Spiral. They were so elegant.

Whatever happened to Michelle Kwan - she sort of faded off the scene. I thought it was sad she never won an Olympic Gold.

BTW, there will be more skating on NBC this coming weekend - the finals of the Women and Ice Dancers.

[Grace]

Here (http://web.icenetwork.com/index.jsp) is a great site about the current figure skating competitions.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Thanks!

I've belonged to skating forums before, but the best one went defunct.
I haven't been able to find one that was as friendly and fun as that one, so haven't been doing much on-line skate talk. Some of the discussion forums can be pretty cut-throat...and some are way too technical for me.

The ladies portion of the US Nationals will air on tv over Friday and Saturday the 22nd and 23rd; Dance will be on Sat. the 23rd.
Mens Long program will re-air on Universal Sports Thursday the 21st.

[Karen]

Ooh, thank, I'll have to DVR them! I love watching the skating, even though sometimes it seems the medal will end up going simply to the one who fell down the least!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Karen,

The whole new judging system is so hard to figure out.

It's like the skaters just skate from one element to the next without any "pretty stuff" in between...just trying to rack up points for doing this jump or that jump. If a skater misses a jump early in the program, but then hits harder jumps after the half-way point, they get more points for those after the half-way point...So, someone with less difficult jumps and the jumps are in the first half of their program, they won't get as many points even if they don't fall!

I dislike how the new judging system is making the ladies do catch-foot spirals instead of the beautiful, classic, long-held spiral of days gone by. And the death spiral for pairs...the more positions they hit doing it, the more points, and some of the positions are down-right ugly!

Who are your favorites? Rooting for anyone special in the Oly's? Been to any live events?

[Karen]

Never been to a live event. I haven't caught much of this year's stuff so far, so don't have a sure favorite right now, but will after this weekend, I am sure!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Grace,

Somehow I missed that you replied to the post with a comment on my picture before you posted the link....

Thank you for the compliment. I think I was technically 2nd row for that show...right behind the on-ice seats. I always snap away attempting to get photos, but because of the low-light and fast movement, many turn out awful, but thank goodness for digital, you just erase them!

I've seen the Protopopov's skate on tv and they were wonderful even in their 70's!

I was never a big Michelle Kwan fan. I don't think she has what it takes to compete under the new scoring system, plus was hampered by nagging injuries during her last couple of years. The last time I saw her perform live with Champions on Ice she did not do any jumps at all.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Karen,
Actually, for pairs, I'm rooting for Xue Shen and Hongbo Zao.
For the men, I am definitely not happy that Plushenko has returned to competition. I definitely want the American men to place on the podium at Oly's but I don't have a clear cut favorite...I guess I'd lean more towards Johnny Weir as far as who I'd like to see win Gold.
I have no idea who is skating in Dance and Ladies for the US or any of the other countries, so...who knows on that!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Here are my photos on FaceBook:

Skating Album A: (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=66221&id=518402856&l=b7d2711d97) Stars On Ice March 13, 2009 Part I

Skating Album B (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=66224&id=518402856&l=78ce9303b2): Stars On Ice March 13, 2009 Part II

Skating Album C (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=57417&id=518402856&l=24ca36ef0a): Photos from different shows

Enjoy!

[Grace]

Your albums are great!! Thanks for sharing.

I haven't watched much figure skating over the past couple of years - not sure why. But this topic has brought back so many memories.

I really liked Phillipe Candeloro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTI7gU8FnuA), Toller Cranston, Rodnina and Zaitsev . . . . the list goes on :)

[redbird]

I also love figure skating and also remember the Kerrigan tragic incident. My favorite male skater has always been Brian Boitano, he is one of the most elegant skaters I have seen and with his height, he is just awesome. Scott Hamilton is fantastic and I love his funny antics on the ice.

Kristi Yamaguchi is my fav female, I never did like Michelle Kwan and still don't. You're right as far as they are not televising figure skating as much as they used to and that is why I have been away from watching it as often as I used to.

As far as the Winter Olympics, figure skating is the only thing I watch.

By the way I also live in NJ.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Grace, glad you enjoyed the albums.

One of the most moving performances I saw live was Phillipe Candeloro skating to "God Bless The USA" after 9-11. He unfurled an American flag from his costume towards the end of the program and the audience just ROARED with applause and vocal kudo's and gave him a long standing ovation. Being a Frenchman and some of the ugly stuff being said about France after 9-11, it was really special. Some people were of the opinion he did it as an attention getter, I felt he did it as a true and heartfelt tribute to the USA, to try to say he felt for the Americans after what had happened.

[Laura's Babies]

I've loved watching ice skating since I was a child and continue to watch it when I can. I didn't know they had went to a new scoring system..

[RICHARD]

Torvill and Dean, Bolero.

Enough said.;)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Laura,

Yes, after the'02 Olympics when the Canadian pair Jamie Sale & David Pelletier along with the Russian pair Elena Bereznaya & Anton Sikhurlidze shared the gold medal in pairs, a new scoring system got developed. It supposedly will stop cheating by the judges. There was some scandal that a French judge cheated and another judge or maybe it was the French judge was tapping her food in signal to another judge or something. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the details of all that, but it was talked about as "a judging scandal".

There is no more 6.0 as a perfect score with the eligible skaters. There is all kinds of things they look for and score on now, and each element has a "rank"...i.e., it can be a level 1, 2, 3 or 4 spin, jump, spiral, etc. The higher the level, the higher the scores. I still don't understand it all nor do I understand totally what constitutes a harder move, etc. I mean, obviously, a triple jump gets more points than a double, but all the rest of it...I don't know. It seems to have taken a lot of the beauty and showmanship out of skating.

[Catlady711]

there is nothing worse than the cameras moving away from kurt browning doing his footwork!

amen!!!!!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Catlady711,
Another Kurt fan?
One of the best programs ever was seeing Kurt do Brick House live!
He is amazing with his feet!

[Bonny]

Talk about skating I use to skate as a kid went through 5 pairs of skates. We would play crack the whip & the person on the outer end ended up in the snowbank. So much fun trying to skate backwards. Went to the ice capades in St. Paul with my folks. Saw this very old couple do a skating waltz on the ice. They were spectacular. I was in Minneapolis for Stars on Ice & was disappointed a couple years ago. Scotti my favorite olympic skater looked like an ant down there on the ice. He is my most favorite skater of all time. That little bald headed guy sure can whip up a good show when he skates & I like him as a commentator he does a good job. I never liked that old fart Dick Button? I think that was his name. He use to criticize the skaters just never had anything good to say about anyone. A real jerk! Kristi is my favorite female skater such a sweet girl & so talented. I don't like the new scoring system either. I am excited about the olympics but the older I get the harder it is to accept the new young skaters. They just don't seem to have the grace the older ones had from the very beginning.

[Catlady711]

Catlady711,
Another Kurt fan?
One of the best programs ever was seeing Kurt do Brick House live!
He is amazing with his feet!


He sure is great with the footwork!! I never got into the ice skating until I saw an improve on ice thing on tv, it was great. Of course most of the ones I liked best aren't skating so much anymore so I haven't follwed the sport in awhille.

[Prairie Purrs]

I always liked Michelle Kwan because she wasn't all about the jumping. During most of her career she could certainly do the jumps, but her best programs were wonderfully expressive and emotional, not mere jumpfests. And I admire her choice to pursue an education rather than attempt to prolong her skating career. Like Kurt Browning, she doesn't need an Olympic medal to be listed among the great skaters.

I guess I'm in the minority in finding a lot to like in the new scoring system. It forces the skaters to put some sort of connecting moves between their jumps, rather than just coasting from one jump to another. Male skaters have been able to win competitions under the new system without doing quad jumps, whereas under the old system it appeared that no one would be able to win without a quad. And because more points are given for jumps after the halfway point, the new system encourages a big finish, which I think is more fun than watching a front-loaded program that fades out at the end.

[Karen]

I don't dislike the new system, it is different, though and so any change will lead to detractors!

[Prairie Purrs]

I didn't think much of the new system at first, but the choreographers are getting the hang of it now and the programs are improving as a result. There are definitely some problems--the changes of positions in spirals and death spirals are often annoying--but I do think it prevents the power jumpers who lack artistic finesse from running away with every competition.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Bonny, I skated as a kid, too, for fun. I could walk down the street to the local lake any time I wanted. I loved skating at night.
I've never sat above the lower bowl in the venue we see the skating shows at, but I can imagine if you're in the nose-bleed seats, without binoculars the skaters would look miniscule.
Stars On Ice hasn't drawn the crowd it used to since Scott Hamilton retired, but my husband and I still enjoyed seeing it live immensely. I really feel like I'm missing my right arm not planning to go this year.:( It was like our "date night" going to the show, and I'd meet up with on-line fellow skating fans each year.
I liked Dick Button. He helped me learn the different elements and what made one a good one and what made one a bad one. I totally agreed with him on the leg position of the layback spin. "Uncle Dick" as he's known by fans would let you know when someone performed a great performance. Without him, I'd not know some of things I know now about skating and the different elements of it.

I just watched a repeat of Improv on Ice with the Goo Goo Dolls as musical performers. It was a good show!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Catlady711,
The faces of skating sure have changed.
I just finished watched the latest Improv on Ice show with the Goo Goo Dolls. Kurt was in it. It was a good show.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

PrairiePurrs,
It wasn't that I disliked Michelle Kwan because she didn't jump...which she did, of course, and usually quite well.
I would rather watch a program with no mistakes, full of "in-betweens" and "moves in the field", like beautiful spirals and Ina Bauer moves, than a program full of attempted and fallen on big jumps.
Skaters like Dorothy Hamill and Yuka Sato are amazing to watch skate.

The new scoring system puts a little too much emphasis on doing certain things to rack up points rather than just letting a skater skate.

Michelle's style did not bode well with the new skating system. People like Kurt, Yuka, Dorothy and many others would not do well with that system either...maybe if they'd been "raised" on it. But, certain skaters who had come up with the 6.0 system and were really engrained to skate for that system, just couldn't do well with this new system coming into effect mid-stream through their eligible career.

One of my issues with Michelle was that all her programs looked the same. She never "stepped outside the box". But that being said, I totally applaud her for all she did in her skating and have any ill-will thoughts towards her. She just wasn't my cup of tea in her style of skating.

I also admit, my heart has always been with the pro skaters who were more free to do what they wanted in their programs. There is a HUGE difference in watching a live or televised competition compared to watching a live or televised show starring pro's who are entertaining and having fun.

The most exciting thing at the live shows was the lights going down, the venue getting quiet and seeing the first flashes of the skate blades under the curtain where the skaters ender the ice and then the SOUND of the blades on the ice. Thrilling!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Originally Posted by PrairiePurrs:
I didn't think much of the new system at first, but the choreographers are getting the hang of it now and the programs are improving as a result.

YES, I've noticed...some of the choreography is starting to mesh in with the new system.
Take for example Jeremy Abbott who won US Nationals Gold in mens competition. His coach is Yuka Sato and his short program was choreographed by former dance pair/now solo skater Shae-Lynn Bourne! He not only skated the skate of his life, but his short program was wonderfully choreographed. I didn't hear if they mentioned who his long program was choreographed by, but it was equally wonderful.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

So, anymore thoughts on the US Nationals which just finished airing on tv last night?

I really, really loved Meryll Davis and Charlie White in the Dance discipline.

Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto are good and I totally understand that they are the fans sentimental favorites, but their performances seemed flat to me.

I fell asleep during the last 2 or 3 skaters of the Ladies long program last night so am going to try to catch the repeat on Universal Sports later today.

[Grace]

Watched the Ladies last evening, and the Dance earlier. I'm not liking the new scoring much. I thought that Mirai Nagasu was much better than Rachel Flatt - and look who is the winner.

I read an interesting article in the NY Times about the new scoring (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/sports/olympics/25rings.html?hp), and the further into it I got, the more I kept thinking school figures. Takes me back to the days of Trixie Schuba. She was perfection in figures, building up overwhelming leads before the free skate.

If that's where this is headed, count me out.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I have to agree with a lot of the quotes in that article.
Rachel was flat, no pun intended! She "punched the clock" like Scott said (IIRC...I should've left the window open with the article up to check!)

I have always loved the more beautiful side of skating==lovely, long-held spirals, beautiful 'hair touching the ice' death spirals, Ina Bauers all the way across the ice with the back bent far back, beautiful classic layback spins with proper leg and arm position. I've always enjoyed the pro's more than the eligibles.

There will probably never be a perfect scoring system, but like Sasha said " it's like a math test, heads are filled with numbers" (paraphrasing there)...to have to count spins, etc., while you are competing...how can you "flow" when you're too busy thinking technical stuff!

I guess we'll always complain, just like we do about the weather.

[Bonny]

I sure liked Meryl & Charlies programs & their skating moves. The announcers mentioned the more upbeat music making a difference in their programs & I think it does. Tanith & Ben reminded me of a pair of stiff wind up dolls during the short program. The ladies there was the good, the bad, & the ugly. Lots of falls & sloppy jumps. I tried to watch the men skate today but was babysitting my grandson so it was a hit & miss.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Bonny, Tanith & Ben have 'lost' something...I don't know what, but...I know they changed coaches to try to do better but I think it might be working against them. They ARE the sentimental favorites and they have done a lot for US dance skating, but...they aren't the same somehow.

I saw the mens and dance pairs last week. It's a shame Ryan Bradley did so poorly in his short program, he is such a charming skater. Reminds me a little of Kurt Browning. Jeremy Abbott had the skates of his life, I think! Pairs was so unempressive for me I don't even remember who skated or who placed! I haven't been following skating the way I used to and don't know who some of the skaters are anymore!

I'm watching a repeat of the ladies now.

[Karen]

I watched last night, and was happy with the results. I thought Sasha Cohen was better in the short than the long, but that has always been the case with her. The commentators seemed to so expect the top two positions to be switched, but I think it will do both skaters good. Mirai kept telling people it wasn't her time yet, so perhaps coming in second will help the nerves not overwhelm her, and Rachel has two very fluffy English Sheepdogs in the background on the piece they showed about her family, so we know she's a doggie friend!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

On re-watching the ladies event, I can see why Rachel triumphed. Her technical abilities are very good.

I think one of my biggest problems, it's a personal one and doesn't jive with the current judging system, is that I feel strongly it is figure SKATING, not figure jumping or figure 8-revolutions to a spin, etc. Rachel is an athletic, technical skater. Marai, Sasha, Ashley are more artistic skaters, the kind I enjoy.

Gosh am I really missing that I don't get the chance to see the pro's in Stars On Ice this year!:(

Waiting now for the "gala" post-comp event to air.:)

[DJFyrewolf36]

I wonder if any of you can answer this question: Why did they only pick two ladies to go to the olympics and 3 pairs? Did they pick two or three men to go? I really like figure skating and watch it when I have access to tv but some of it is confusing! :confused:

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

DJFyrewolf36,
The number of competitors any country can send in any discipline is determined by the placements of the previous years World Championship Competition for each discipline.
I'm not sure of the details, but something about the placements of our competitors, or any countries, gets points and the more points you get the more competitors you can(or maybe it's the less points you get?) send but I think 3 is the maximum, but I'm not positive on that.
Here is some technical info if you can understand it:
http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/faq/rules.shtml#Q10

[Grace]

I wonder if any of you can answer this question: Why did they only pick two ladies to go to the olympics and 3 pairs? Did they pick two or three men to go? I really like figure skating and watch it when I have access to tv but some of it is confusing! :confused:

I'm guessing Pat knows the exact answer - but it has something to do with the placement of Americans at the last World Championship, I think. If we had an American man in the top 10 we get 3 - otherwise it's fewer.

[DJFyrewolf36]

The link explained it thank you!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Gretchen, I'm so bad at the technical stuff and numbers tend to run around in circles in my brain without making a lot of sense.:confused:
I'm gathering a first place gets 1 point, 2nd 2 points, and so on.
I provided a link in my previous post that explains it although it took me reading it about 5 times before I started absorbing it.
If we have 2 or 3 competitors in the previous years World Championships, they need to equal 13 points or less in their placements so we can send 3 to Oly's...at least I *think* that's what it's saying. The higher our competitors place in the previous years' Worlds, the less points they garner and the MORE competitors we get to send.
I hope that's right...check out the link to get the REAL explanation.;)

[Bonny]

The ice skating exposition or gala was fantastic. The person that really left a mark was Ashley. She truly is an artistic & athletic skater. She just blew it away for me. I was watching the ladies contest the other night & fell asleep when Sasha was about to skate so missed her. In between the advertising, letting dogs in & out & phone calls it is hard to catch everyone. I loved to see all the former gold medal winners. What a line up & they all looked to be in good shape. Maybe they still get out there on their blades & scratch up the ice. ;) when know one is looking.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Did you see the 10-year-old Novice Mens Champion skate in the gala? He was marvelous!!!

I really enjoyed seeing our past Olympic Gold Medalists come out to be honored. (I shook Kristy's hand in 2004 I think it was:D)

I so enjoy a beautiful skate done with the music over a technically perfect skate any day. I like Ashley's style, as well as Mirai's, over Rachel Flatt's. I also enjoy Alyssa Cizny and hoped she'd do better in the comp.

If you have Universal Sports channel, keep an eye out for repeats of the competition. I caught the ladies I missed during Sat. nights airing on Sunday evening on that channel. I re-watched Rachel and Mirai skate as well to try to see just why they placed the way they did. The announcers pointed at that many of Mirai's jumps were "cheated"...she was either partially rotated before she left the ice or she landed before making a complete revolution, which downgrades her technical scores.

Like Dick Button said at the top of the comp when asked what would make the winner...He said it wouldn't be who we think should win because they skate a beautiful program, but the person who racks up all the technical points. I'm kind of sick of hearing about points, extra points for jumps after half-way through, level of difficulty, etc.

[RICHARD]

What's the deal with the Kerrigan Family?

Heard that her brother hit the dad and died of a H attack?:confused::eek:

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Richard,
Believe me, if there is any skater I don't follow, it's Kerrigan. I have never been fond of her on the ice or off the ice.
I have no idea what is up with her these days.

[Karen]

She lives not too far from here, in Lynnfield, MA, she's a married mom of 3. I have never had anything against her, thought I thought the media sometimes went to far in portraying her as the "ice princess" as opposed to Tanya Harding's "bad girl." She didn't grow up wealthy, just a normal working class family. The incident with her brother and father sounds like alcoholism at work, and nothing to do with the skater.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I've never wished anything ill-will towards Nancy, she just isn't someone I get a real warm & fuzzy feeling about.
I was thrilled for her that she finally had a successful 3rd pregnancy and baby, though. She had a lot of heart break in that part of her life.

[Bonny]

The novice mens champion was a powerhouse out there on the ice. He has great charisma & oh what a future he has.

Mirai has to work on her jumps before the olympics. She better get them down pat. They did show her foot work & uncompleted turns in slow motion last night. Uncle Dick put his two cents in there. He is mellowing out with age. LOL! I guess I never cared for his lack of tact.

My dear Scotti was asked about the chances of the US women placing. Scotti mentioned the Japanese skaters & we really haven't seen the world skaters yet so watch out US women skaters. Practice! Practice! Practice!

Just heard about Nancy Karrigans father died over the weekend. He got into a struggle with his son over using the telephone. The old fella was 70 years old. The son was arrested. I guess he grabbed his dad around the throat. Not good.

You were so lucky to shake hands with Kristys MOMto. The closest I got to Scotti was up in row Z with no binoc's either at the Target Center in Minneapolis. Scott & Kristy was my all time favorites.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Bonny,
Nathan, that's the 10 year old novice champ, hopefully DOES have a marvelous future. It will depend on if life and growth spurts gets in the way or not. He won't be eligible for Oly's until 2018!

There have been a lot of jump-cheaters in the past but the old scoring system didn't have as much an impact on it as the new one does, and I don't know how much reviewing of jumps they did with the 6.0 system.

I've always enjoyed "Uncle Dick" as Dick Buttons is known in the thick of the figure skating fan world.;) I always laughed, and agreed, when he pointed out ugly leg positions of a layback spin...and the fanny sticking out too much:eek: on the descent into a death spiral!

This year, not being able to see Stars On Ice due to it not coming close enough for us to be willing to travel to it as well as put out the cost, I realise how lucky I have been in the past to have gone to all the different shows and competitions I've been to!

[cassiesmom]

I thought that 10-year-old Nathan Chen was amazing! I hope he will have a very bright future as a skater.

I didn't know Dick Button was the first to complete a double Axel in competition. He IS mellowing with age! I wonder what he thinks of today's competitors doing triple and quad jumps?!

I thought it was very neat that all the Olympic winners were introduced from Dick Button to Sarah Hughes. Very cool. The girls who won weren't even born yet when Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano were Olympic competitors. I remember those two Olympics so well.

And I thought Mirai Nagasu's program was more artistic and Rachael Flatt's more athletic. I wish 3 women could go. I thought Mirai Nagasu should have won, but then they showed the problem with her jumps in very slow motion and I understood why she finished second.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Hi Elyse,

Sometimes the ones you hope will have a great future somehow don't make it, for whatever reason. It's fun to watch over the years and see how things pan out.

Seeing the past Olympic Gold Medalists was really cool.

My BIL took my sister, my Mom and me to see Peggy Fleming in the Ice Capades (or maybe the Follies, I forget which) after she had won the Gold medal. I'd had a tooth pulled that day and the next thing I knew I was being shaken awake in my seat to get up and go home, the show was over. I MISSED seeing Peggy skate! All I have to show for it is the program from the show!

The cheated jumps is nothing new. It's so hard to see it without the slow-mo. The cheated Lutz jump, too, is kind of hard to see...many women skaters especially take off on the wrong edge, making it a "flutz", which isn't as difficult a jump as a Lutz. They shouldn't get full credit if they don't do a true Lutz. I guess this new judging system makes sure that gets checked more so than the old system.

[Grace]

Interesting article about Johnny Weir. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/sports/olympics/19longman.html?ex=1279688400&en=862ee9e770783720&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=GN-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M133-ROS-0110-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Gretchen, I'd have to agree with most of that article saying how Johnny's style and persona and costumes are leaning more towards "schtick" these days.
There used to be a purity to his skating that was so beautiful.
What he does off the ice can't help but have some effect on how people view him on the ice.

When he skates well, there is nothing like him, but I haven't seen him skate well, securely, and passionately all at the same time in a while.

[Bonny]

Johnny reminds me of Rudy Glenda anyhow his style of skating & his choice of clothing. I like his confidence & artistry. When he skates he seems to be trying to relay a story along with the music he has picked & trying to put all the required elements into it. He has his work cut out for him along with all the others skaters from the USA.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Rudy is SO much fun to see in person! His show numbers were usually a lot different than his competitive numbers. It was so thrilling to see him win US Nationals in '96 in his home town.

[Grace]

I found two more interesting articles in the NY Times - about pairs and ice dancers, finding a partner - and some strange representations.

Now skating for . . . . . (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/sports/olympics/28pairs.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)

Ice Partners Search . com (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/sports/olympics/28pairsside.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Very interesting!
I know it can be hard to find the right partner both personality wise, compatible work ethic-wise and size wise!

This reminds me, I wanted to check tv listings to see if I could find if any of the other countries Nationals is on tv. I used to be able to catch Europeans and Canadians.

[Grace]

Very interesting!
I know it can be hard to find the right partner both personality wise, compatible work ethic-wise and size wise!

This reminds me, I wanted to check tv listings to see if I could find if any of the other countries Nationals is on tv. I used to be able to catch Europeans and Canadians.

Living so close to Canada, we get those on CBC - along with Hockey Night in Canada :)

[Grace]

Michelle Kwan - the most decorated figure skater in American history (two Olympic medals, five world titles, nine national championships) now totes a backpack crammed with books, a computer and a Kindle. (http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2010/02/02/kwan_puts_skating_career_on_ice_boston_globe/)

[Bonny]

That was an interesting article about Michelle. I have always liked her but couldn't figure out why she kept going out was it to win more titles, trophies, & metals or was it to prove something to herself? Here it was none of the above. I just couldn't figure out why she hadn't gone professional like most of the other champion skaters? I am happy for her & always felt she had a good head on her shoulders. She had a big adjustment to make like she said going from elegant skating to skating for points. More like acrobatics on ice is what I call it, the more perfected jumps the more points, especially towards the end of your program when your legs are like sphagetti. Ugh! I guess I miss the beautiful elegance & what I would call ballet on ice. But we can still see that on tv specials. Yeah! :)

[cassiesmom]

MT4FF, did you see Pelletier and Sale providing commentary for the Canadian sports network? If they ever skate around here again I would definitely go see them. Which got me thinking - whatever happened to Katya Gordeeva? Has she retired from skating? I know she has a daughter.

[Grace]

Which got me thinking - whatever happened to Katya Gordeeva? Has she retired from skating? I know she has a daughter.

She married again, Ilia Kulik, and had another daughter. Her oldest child, Daria, will be 18 this year.

She did skate in some of Scott Hamilton's ice shows, but I haven't seen her recently. I read that they moved back to southern California, after living in Connecticut for several years.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

MT4FF, did you see Pelletier and Sale providing commentary for the Canadian sports network? If they ever skate around here again I would definitely go see them. Which got me thinking - whatever happened to Katya Gordeeva? Has she retired from skating? I know she has a daughter.

Hi Elyse,
I saw a brief video clip showing Jamie & David but we couldn't hear them.
Stars On Ice will be at the All State Arena in Chicago on May 8, 2010. Jamie & David are not on the cast list, though.
Jamie and David were not with Stars On Ice last year in Philadelphia, but they might be on the Canadian leg of the tour, or doing guest spots. Stars On Ice is not coming to Philly this year, so I haven't paid any attention to who is in the cast this year.

Katia was recently in a show that was on television but I don't remember which one it was. She has skated solo in many shows and was doing partial legs of the Stars on Ice tour up til recently. I've seen her many times. She and Sergei were in the very first Stars On Ice show I saw, but I was still learning who-was-who at that time...several months later, she lost her Sergei.

Katia did indeed marry Ilia Kulik. They have a daughter, Elizaveta is her name and they call her Lee-za for short(I think I have that right but could be wrong). Katia & Sergei's daughter, Daria, is a very good skater. Up until a year or so ago, the whole family used to participate in Kristi Yamaguchi's "Friends and Family" show...but this year not only were Katia & Ilia absent, the children were not on the show with their parents. That was a disappointment.

Here's a video clip from 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3vAsZ40RRA

If you search around, you'll find others. Daria looks just like Sergei and Leeza looks just like Ilia.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

That was an interesting article about Michelle. I have always liked her but couldn't figure out why she kept going out was it to win more titles, trophies, & metals or was it to prove something to herself? Here it was none of the above. I just couldn't figure out why she hadn't gone professional like most of the other champion skaters? I am happy for her & always felt she had a good head on her shoulders. She had a big adjustment to make like she said going from elegant skating to skating for points. More like acrobatics on ice is what I call it, the more perfected jumps the more points, especially towards the end of your program when your legs are like sphagetti. Ugh! I guess I miss the beautiful elegance & what I would call ballet on ice. But we can still see that on tv specials. Yeah! :)

Bonny, any of the skaters that were coming up in the Michelle/Tara/Sarah/Nicole/Todd, etc., era, would have a hard time adjusting to the new scoring system. I absolutely hate it. Unfortunately, sloppy skaters like Evgeni Plushenko who can hit technical stuff but does not make all his other movements look like they mean something, can work the point system and win. I don't like skating that is not aesthetically pleasing to watch. Some skaters are getting choreographers that can work with this new system now, and the "in betweens" are improving some, though.

My heart has always lied more with the professional skaters.

I do not like the fact that all the pro shows these days have to share the screen with musical artists. I tried to watch the show the other day that had some musical group that a bunch of teens were just screaming their heads off about. I couldn't stand it and had to turn it off.

I have BEEN to some of those shows live, but not with groups teenagers were screaming about...and at least there live, you can keep your eyes on the skaters. One of the better shows like this that I attended was with Sarah Brightman as the musical guest.

I was never a big fan of Michelle's. I understand she was an icon and a good role model, but her skating programs seemed to be the same moves in the same spots of the ice just with different music. She was a bit more enjoyable to see live than to watch on tv. The last time I saw her, I believe was 2006, she did not do any jumps because she was still recovering from/fighting her injuries.

[Bonny]

Tonight is the long program for the pairs at the Olympics. I liked the retired comeback Chinese pair & also the Germans. My husband was watching the short program & said gee, they all seem to be doing the same thing over & over with each pair. I told him well that is the new system. I didn't think he was really paying attention, he is a sharp old fart. LOL!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Bonny, I am looking forward to watching the long programs tonight! I just hope Shen/Zhao can hang onto their lead.
If it hadn't been for the 1.00 deduction that Pang/Tong got, they would've taken the lead over Shen/Zhao because their lead now is less than one point! I was looking for an explanation of their deduction all day and finally heard (and this may or may not be the real reason:confused:) that their music stopped before they did, so their program ran over the specified time restraint.
The young American skaters did well...they just need more experience and some fine tuning.
I also like the German pair a lot, the ones that skated to Send In The Clowns.
I thought this new scoring system was for preventing things like what happened last night--skaters with stumbles or falls getting ahead of those who skated clean.:confused:

[cassiesmom]

I'm rooting for the Chinese couple that got 76+ points last night, Shen and Shao or Zhao (sp? sorry) I thought their short program was just beautiful. It reminded me a little of watching Torvill and Dean's '84 Bolero program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98
Here's Torvill and Dean. Just the two of them and Ravel's music. The house is so quiet that you can hear a pin drop until their program ends. I remember this so well.

[Grace]

Anyone remember the World's in 1973 - Rodnina & Zaitsev? The music stopped, but they kept on skating.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I am also rooting for Shen/Zhao, the Chinese pair. They have always been technically great but have also learned to relate to each other and show emotion in their performances.
I have seen them during their tour with Stars On Ice. They have grown so much in their performing.

Bolero by Torvill & Dean is wonderful. There will never be another dance pair like them.

I was not following skating in 1973, didn't start til '94.

[Grace]

I was not following skating in 1973, didn't start til '94.


Too bad. You missed something very special. Their music stopped suddenly in the middle of their program. They completed it without music and won the gold. That performance earned a standing ovation. Actually, they did have to skate it again, with the music. But they were perfect, with or without.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Their music stopped suddenly in the middle of their program. They completed it without music and won the gold. That performance earned a standing ovation. Actually, they did have to skate it again, with the music. But they were perfect, with or without.

I do believe I have seen footage of that on television as part of 'specials' about skating, or possibly it is on one of my purchased video's that tell some of the history of skating. Definitely amazing.

[smokey the elder]

I remember seeing the Rodnina and Zaitsev on Wide World of Sports, which carried a lot of figure skating back in the day.

The new system is kind of lame; it has good intentions but fails in the execution, IMO. Skating is nothing more than "tricks on ice". It might as well be half-pipe snowboarding.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

The new system is kind of lame; it has good intentions but fails in the execution, IMO. Skating is nothing more than "tricks on ice". It might as well be half-pipe snowboarding.

I agree about the scoring system.
Even as the choreographers, coaches and skaters start learning to put some "moves in the field" in the programs, there isn't enough time to hit all those point making moves AND do a lovely classic spiral or Ina Bauer move.
And I hate that catching the foot on spirals and death spirals garners more points...some of the positions the pairs ladies were using to get into the death spiral were down right ugly in the pairs competition. A catch foot here & there with a spin or spiral is okay, but not seeing, especially a female, skater glide across the ice in a beautiful spiral position(i.e., Cohen, Bobek, Kwan, Hughes) takes away from the programs, IMO.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Congratulations to China, Zhen/Zhao and Pang/Tong!
What a night for pairs skating!
Zhen/Zhao didn't skate a perfect program but were still wonderful to watch and the work they put into returning to Olympic eligible skating paid off. They have realized their dream of an Olympic Gold Medal.
Pang/Tong were wonderful. Had they not been in 4th going into the long program, they would've easily over-taken Zhen/Zhao. Pang/Tong are SO improved over their earlier years of skating...they now have the grace, beauty and emotion to go with the technical aspect.
The Russian Reign in pairs Olympic Gold Medals is finally at an end. (not that many of the Russian skaters didn't deserve their medals, it's just nice to see a different country be victorious)

[Bonny]

The pairs skating is done now the mens short program is tonight. I hope I can stay awake. I get so relaxed watching the skaters & the music puts a person to sleep. LOL! I think it is old age creeping up on me & during the day I take the dogs out & snowshoe for a good 2 hour run to wear them out & I get wore out. I wonder if my husband will notice the required elements tonight? He was at the hospital today getting his blood checked & they had the Olympics hockey game on. He said he saw a player slam another one into the wall & into the penalty box the player went. The puck had already been passed onto another player so the slam was after the fact. Hockey is a kill get killed game, maybe that is why they are padded from head to toe.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Although I am not a hockey fan, I remember the days in the 1970's when the Philadelphia Flyers were hot-hot-hot. They didn't wear any helmets back then!:eek:

I sometimes fall asleep during the skating as well. I took a short nap today so will hopefully make it up for the whole mens event. We can catch up on sleep Wednesday night when there is no skating events on. (Why couldn't Thursday be the night no skating is on, I wouldn't have to tape Survivor!)

I am NOT looking forward to seeing Evegeni Plushenko, and I know it sounds mean, but I really hope he makes mistakes and does not win. I'd love to see one of our American men on the top of the podium. Go Evan Lysacek!:)

[sparks19]

Hockey is a kill get killed game, maybe that is why they are padded from head to toe.

not a kill or get killed game... it's a CONTACT sport :)

I was glad to see the married chinese couple win it (I'm sorry I don't know how to spell their names lol)

[Puckstop31]

they had the Olympics hockey game on. He said he saw a player slam another one into the wall & into the penalty box the player went. The puck had already been passed onto another player so the slam was after the fact. Hockey is a kill get killed game, maybe that is why they are padded from head to toe.

What you describe sounds like a interference penalty. Bodychecking ("slamming") is part of the game. You use your body to take an opponent who has the puck, off the puck. As long as you keep the hit low and from the front or side, its all good. Part of the game, its just how its played.

You cannot hit a player who does not have the puck, thus the interference penalty you describe.

Hockey, especially modern hockey has a very undeserved sterotype as a 'violent' sport. Its physical, yes, but violent? We could have a discussion about the role of fighitng in the NHL, but I don't want to hijack any further. LOL Plus, fighting is VERY taboo in the Olympics.

[Bonny]

I fell asleep & would wake up to watch the skaters & fall back to sleep that was my evening of watching the men skate. I am fighting a cold to so that didn't help matters either. Tonight I probably will be wide awake. Ugh!!! With no figure skating to watch. I hope Lysacek gets the gold. Johnny put on a dramatic skate but doesn't include those jumps for points. He is a crazy guy & fun to watch he puts on a good show. I did get to watch the abandonded Brazilian who was adopted by a French family & has been training with his coach since he was four years old. He was a powerhouse on the ice. As far as Plushenko goes he wants two golds like Uncle (Gramps) Dick Button has. Plushenko had lots of upper body hand arms,movement & seemed strung out. Maybe it is his lanky build? Hubby went to get his hair cut so missed the whole thing.

When I was in high school, hockey was a big deal in Minnesota. We attended all the games & they were rough & tough. Fights would break out on the ice & sometimes even with the fans watching the games. There were times the penalty box was full of players from both sides with only 2-3 players out on the ice per team playing. It was wild!

I plan to have two TV's on Thursday night one in the sunroom which will reflect Survivor up on the windows & the other TV is in the livingroom room to watch the Olympics. I can sit on the couch & watch both the Olympics & Survivor. LOL!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Bonny, I stayed up for all but one skater for the mens short program...I was in bed and asleep by 11:45 but woke up 1/2 an hour later and was kept awake for the next 2 hours by my Molly. An 11 lb. cat running in the quiet of the night on hardwood floors sounds like a horse! She decided it was party time and went on for 2 hours! And I HAD to be up and out the door no later than 9:30 this morning, so when I got back from errands I took a 2 hour nap.
Thursday I will switch back & forth to Survivor & the Oly's, but also have a tape in for Survivor. On Monday, we managed to see almost every minute of Bachelor and did not have to resort to watching the tape we had in just incase skating was on long enough for us to miss something. The majority of Monday's skating took place from 10:30 til midnight!
Not sure I mentioned it, but Plushenko looks like he's running from and swatting bees. Those flailing movements mean nothing. He's all about the jumps and unfortunately that can win it.
I'm mean, I'm hoping he'll fall at least once in his long program(free skate):eek::p. I hope Evan skates beautifully and can pull off a win.
Johnny is....well, Johnny! He definitely marches to the beat of a different drummer!

[K9karen]

Wow! The photo of Sasha is gorgeous! It's astounding!

I LOVE ice skating. I've turned around a view times to talk to my mom, but of course she's watching from above. Sure wish heaven had a phone.

Anyway, Evan's mom retorted to a comment that the Russian said (can't spell his name and I can't stand him physically...tsk tsk to me) that "you don't deserve a gold if you can't do quadruple jumps". Mom replies "you don't deserve a gold if all you can do is quadruple jumps". Something to that extent, but it was a proud mom defending her son.

Tonight's venue is going to be awesome. Poo Poo on the nightly news who already told the winner of the women's downhill, even if they did warn people that the results are in. I hate when they do that. The whole idea is to sqeal and be energized at midnight..at least for me. I stay up til all hours watching the Olympics. My girlfriend always takes 2 weks off from work to watch the entire Olympics.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Wow! The photo of Sasha is gorgeous! It's astounding!

I LOVE ice skating. I've turned around a view times to talk to my mom, but of course she's watching from above. Sure wish heaven had a phone.

Anyway, Evan's mom retorted to a comment that the Russian said (can't spell his name and I can't stand him physically...tsk tsk to me) that "you don't deserve a gold if you can't do quadruple jumps". Mom replies "you don't deserve a gold if all you can do is quadruple jumps". Something to that extent, but it was a proud mom defending her son.

Tonight's venue is going to be awesome. Poo Poo on the nightly news who already told the winner of the women's downhill, even if they did warn people that the results are in. I hate when they do that. The whole idea is to sqeal and be energized at midnight..at least for me. I stay up til all hours watching the Olympics. My girlfriend always takes 2 weks off from work to watch the entire Olympics.

Evgeni Plushenko would be the Russian with an ego the size of Russia and then some!
I always say "it's called figure SKATING, not figure JUMPING"!
I loved Plushenko's fluff piece they did last night. He said "many people don't like me....many people"...I sat on my couch waving my hand and saying "me, me!"

I don't like being spoiled. At least with these Olympics being in a similar time zone and being on tv live, as long as I watch when it's aired, I won't be spoiled. I was spoiled in '98 when I heard a news report before I had a chance to watch the mens televised event, that Ilia Kulik had won Gold in mens skating.

Thank you for the compliment on my picture of Sasha. That is definitely the best photo I've ever taken at an ice show...it helped she was holding relatively still! I have 3 albums of skating pics on my Face Book account.

[cassiesmom]

had the Olympics hockey game on. He said he saw a player slam another one into the wall & into the penalty box the player went. The puck had already been passed onto another player so the slam was after the fact.

Is that the game where they had a 5-on-3 power play? And the player who got shoved into the boards plays for the Boston Bruins. I started following the Blackhawks when the Bulls couldn't win a game no matter how they tried. Now the Bulls are starting to win more consistently (finally!) and I am trying to learn more about hockey.

I loved Johnny Weir's short program, because it was more than a bunch of jumps sort of strung together in the first two minutes of the program. Sandra Bezic said that as a skater, he has a lot of respect for the purity of it, which is starting to really show in his programs.

[cassiesmom]

Once again I loved Johnny Weir's program. I thought his score was too low. The commentators said that the problem seemed to be how it was choreographed before and after the jumps. Looked good to me...

But Naperville's own Evan Lysacek got the win! YEAAAAAH! He deserved to win. I liked where they showed him watching the scores and figuring out that he was the winner.

[Grace]

At the age of 71, Frank Carroll has coached his first Olympic Gold winner!!!

And Laurie Nichols, choreographer, had 2 Golds this year - Evan and the Chinese pair :)

[K9karen]

At the age of 71, Frank Carroll has coached his first Olympic Gold winner!!!

And Laurie Nichols, choreographer, had 2 Golds this year - Evan and the Chinese pair :)

I was ecstatic for Frank Carroll! Woo! Woo! for Evan!
As the camera was on Evan before he was announced to go to the podium, the announcer (was it Costas?) said that Plushenko stood on the top/gold podium for a second. The camera didn't show that, but I rest my case. Retire for good, ya conceited jerk. Ick, Ick, Ick.

I think Jonny Weir's performance was underscored too.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Once again I loved Johnny Weir's program. I thought his score was too low. The commentators said that the problem seemed to be how it was choreographed before and after the jumps. Looked good to me...

But Naperville's own Evan Lysacek got the win! YEAAAAAH! He deserved to win. I liked where they showed him watching the scores and figuring out that he was the winner.

Elyse, I couldn't have been more thrilled to see that Evan won! I kept a mantra going in my head all day long "fall, Plushy, fall"...Well, he didn't fall but his landings were shakey and his artistry stinks, so the judges scored things right! I can just imagine what Plushenko is saying now. All that talk about a skater can't win without a quad and he has the quad so he will win. PUHLEEZE!

From what Scott and Sandra were saying, sounds like Johnny Weir needs a new choreographer. They said his program did not have enough transitions and difficult steps going into the jumps. I thought he should've got at least a slightly higher score.

[smokey the elder]

"No quad? No problem!" congrats to Evan Lysacek. I'm glad he didn't get rattled by Plushenko's big mouth.:)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

"No quad? No problem!" congrats to Evan Lysacek. I'm glad he didn't get rattled by Plushenko's big mouth.:)

Evan = class
Plushenko = ego

I wonder if the way Plushy flaunted himself, almost mocking at, the judges helped them score him less in the artistry and over-all performance scores.

[Bonny]

I stayed awake & was crumbling about the skating coming up so late in the evening. GRRRR! Anyhow I am so glad Evan got the gold he deserved it. Then there is the Arrogant Russian with his wobbles & bobbles? Johnny Wuir skated great but like they said needed to up his program to more challenges. The crowd did boo when Johnny's scores came up & were not happy about the lower scores he received. The skater that broke his skate string & fixed it himself was exciting. He got back out there & finished. I was looking at his skates, they were worn on the sides from all their use. It is like having an old pair of shoes or boots that fit & work for you. All in all I enjoyed the whole thing. Frank Carole finally got his gold. :)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Hi Bonny,
I was having a little trouble staying awake until it got down to the last few skaters. And then the excitement made it hard for me to get to sleep when it was over...plus our water softener ran and kept me awake(that thing is noisy, I usually sleep through it if I'm already asleep when it runs).
Plushenko is just a big mouth.
Someone told me he is going around saying things like mens figure skating is now just dance because Evan won without a quad. Ummmm, dear Plushy, didn't anyone tell you it's called skating and under the old scoring system, which he skated under, artistry was one of the things judged strongly! And it's still judged.
Like Scott kept saying "GOE" "grade of execution"...were his jumps executed exquitely, well, fair? Fair at best! Wobbly and insecure in some spots, no beautiful run-outs on the ends of any of them. Somebody said he lands like a jack-hammer, so true!
I knew he wouldn't be a gracious loser and would have things to say!
In general, all the men did fairly well. There are some dynomo's in the future if they keep up their work ethic and growth spurts don't throw them off too much.
Lori Nicholl's(SP?) choregraphed both Shen/Zhao and Evan...I saw Shen/Zhao congratulating Evan. That was nice.

[cassiesmom]

From what Scott and Sandra were saying, sounds like Johnny Weir needs a new choreographer. They said his program did not have enough transitions and difficult steps going into the jumps. I thought he should've got at least a slightly higher score.


This might be a stupid question because I don't know anything about figure skating. But, for each jump, the skater seems to take a few beats of the music to set up the jump. He turns his body, changes his weight to one foot and bends his knee. What I don't understand is, how can the choreographer layer more difficult steps onto that, and still arrange it so the skater can prepare to jump? Do the judges allow for those few beats of preparation when they are evaluating the program?

Thanks,
elyse

Edited to add: I thought it was inappropriate for Plushenko to step up to the gold medal platform as if he wanted to show that he felt he should have won. Scott Hamilton referred to grade of execution and I don't know exactly what that means, but I could tell on a couple of the jumps that he was at a wonky angle.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

This might be a stupid question because I don't know anything about figure skating. But, for each jump, the skater seems to take a few beats of the music to set up the jump. He turns his body, changes his weight to one foot and bends his knee. What I don't understand is, how can the choreographer layer more difficult steps onto that, and still arrange it so the skater can prepare to jump? Do the judges allow for those few beats of preparation when they are evaluating the program?

Thanks,
elyse

Edited to add: I thought it was inappropriate for Plushenko to step up to the gold medal platform as if he wanted to show that he felt he should have won. Scott Hamilton referred to grade of execution and I don't know exactly what that means, but I could tell on a couple of the jumps that he was at a wonky angle.

Elyse, there are no stupid questions! I still have questions and things to learn about skating even though I've listened carefully, looked at some books and a spectators guide to jumps video!
Before this new scoring system, some skaters would take this looooong glide across the ice "telegraphing" the jump...in other words they were saying with their movement "I'm going to jump when I get to that other end of the ice".
Some skaters are better than others at doing an actual skating move and then going up into a jump. Others, I imagine, can't manage any kind of footwork or difficult entrance.
What would make a jump get higher scores and be deemed more difficult, would be for the skater to do a spiral or spread Eagle or some other move or footwork and then seemingly go up into the jump "out of nowhere". Some skaters just can't do it, and some jumps you just can't do it with very well, or very fancily.
I think it's a fine line as to how many "non difficult/artistic" steps are taken between a move that makes it a difficult entrance and the actual jump. I imagine depending on the jump, the judges have to allow that the jump can't be done "out of nowhere".

Grade of execution for jumps would be things like:
Did the skater begin revolution on the blade still on the ice or begin revolution in the air?(starting revolution on the ice is cheating a jump--something that used to get missed a lot with the old scoring system, they have video and instrant replay to check for that kind of thing now)
Did the skater complete revolutions in the air or complete the revolutions on the blade on the ice after landing?(same as above, it's cheating to land and do approx. 1/4 turn or more on the ice)
Did the skater do a difficult move before jumping?
Did the skater land with good body position(back strong, legs steady, arms in a nice position, etc), without a turn out, without a foot down or a hand down?
Did the skater have a nice run out after the jump?
Basicly, the "prettier" the landing of a jump is, and if all revolutions are done completely in the air, the higher grade of execution mark it will get.
Someone said Plushenko lands like a jack-hammer...not nicely or artisticly or steadily.

Each jump also has to be done correctly for the type of jump it is. The skater has to go up from the correct edge of the blade, etc. There are 6 jumps: toe loop, loop, flip, axle, salchow and lutz. I can recognize them all EXCEPT I can't pick out a flip froma toe loop. Axle is the only jump with a forward take off and it is an edge jump, there is no picking-in with the toe of the free leg. It is a jump that has an extra 1/2 revolution to it...i.e., a single is 1 1/2 revolutions, a triple is 3 1/2 revolutions. Salchow and loop are also edge jumps, no toe picking in to launch with. Toe loop, flip and lutz are "pick" jumps, the skaters pick in their free foot to launch with.

[cassiesmom]

I found this on You Tube. This is from the '84 Olympics. It is Yao Bin and his partner - he's now the coach for the Chinese national figure skating program that had some huge successes at the Olympics :) The figure skating program in China had only been in place for a couple of years and you can see them struggle -- how far things have come since then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_V0E0JP20

[Grace]

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source (http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=430590.html#plushenko+lysacek+true+champion )

[caseysmom]

I am so happy Evan won that Plushenko dude has no class.

[caseysmom]

Okay sort of a wierd question...does anyone know if Evan likes the ladies,,,just wondering because he is so hot.

[Grace]

Okay sort of a wierd question...does anyone know if Evan likes the ladies,,,just wondering because he is so hot.

So I googled him and came up with this article. (http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/1666/evan-lysacek-girlfriend-2010-and-olympic-gold-medal-performance/)

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

[caseysmom]

So I googled him and came up with this article. (http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/1666/evan-lysacek-girlfriend-2010-and-olympic-gold-medal-performance/)

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

So what your saying is I have to stand in line:D

[Bonny]

That stupid Quad Jump doesn't make the whole skater, it is not the whole package, & that Russian BOY doesn't see the big picture. They might as well have a class for jack hammer quad jump dummies to please the Russians. Ugh! I grew up in the 1960's with the cold war & you know things haven't changed with the Communists. They are still trying to bury us.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I found this on You Tube. This is from the '84 Olympics. It is Yao Bin and his partner - he's now the coach for the Chinese national figure skating program that had some huge successes at the Olympics :) The figure skating program in China had only been in place for a couple of years and you can see them struggle -- how far things have come since then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_V0E0JP20

They showed a clip of Yao Bin skating during a break in the pairs skating. I had heard before how Yao had to teach from his limited experiences and by reading books and looking at videos. Now he takes his students to different choreographers for help and other things to aid in their learning. It's amazing how far the Chinese and Japanese skaters have come over the years.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source (http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=430590.html#plushenko+lysacek+true+champion )

My disdain for Plushy started years ago. His ego is ridiculous. I keep saying it, somebody needs to tell Plushy, it's called figure SKATING! He's a legend in his own mind. I'll never consider him a name to be talked about in the history of skating as a good skater or competitor. He doesn't have a complete package and he certainly doesn't have class.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

So I googled him and came up with this article. (http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/1666/evan-lysacek-girlfriend-2010-and-olympic-gold-medal-performance/)

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

I had a feeling he wasn't with Tanith anymore. Last season their relationship was covered in "fluff" pieces but I hadn't seen anything about it this season.

[Bonny]

Well, Another night at the ice rink. I stayed awake last night & hope to tonight. Johnny made my night last night with his crown of roses. That sweet sweet boy! LOL!

[phesina]

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source (http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=430590.html#plushenko+lysacek+true+champion )

I saw that on the evening news. What a sore loser! All I could think was: 'GROW UP, YOU SPOILED, WHINING CRYBABY!"

[Karen]

Now, now, it seems the Russian premier emailed him and told him he should have won ... everyone has their own opinion, and likely there'd be complaints no matter how the judging came out. Sour grapes ...

Figure skating has always had that push and shove between artistry and athleticism. I remember Surya Bonaly - a French figure skater who was an excellent athlete, but considered not as much of an "artist," doing an illegal backflip at the end of one event in a sort of protest in anger at the judges.

That said, I have been DVR-ing the Olympics, so avoid this thread until I have watched the previous night's stuff ... and was proud not only of Evan but of Johnny Wier, as both seemed to have skated their hearts out.

And caseysmom, given the athletic accomplishments of Mr. Lysacek's current and prior girlfriends, I don't think simply "standing" in line will do, how many spins and twists and somersaults can you manage might count!

[caseysmom]

Hey Karen don't burst my bubble! Can I giggle to him???

[Karen]

Hey Karen don't burst my bubble! Can I giggle to him???

All you want!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Hey Karen don't burst my bubble! Can I giggle to him???

I know a lady who follows skating with a passion, and I mean passion! She and her husband go to all kinds of events they can drive to, even if it takes a few hours to get to them. She has met many of the skaters and had her picture taken with many of them...and I bet somewhere in her aresenal of photos she has one of herself with Evan!
If you are bold enough and find the right event and the right opportunity at the event, you can meet the skaters fairly easily.
Often when different shows appear in the different cities, there are contests on radio stations or other media where you can win meet & greets, and certain events include meet & greet ticket opportunities.
Stars On Ice used to ALWAYS have meet & greet until after 9/11 when security every where got really tight.

[cassiesmom]

I found this on You Tube. This is from the '84 Olympics. It is Yao Bin and his partner - he's now the coach for the Chinese national figure skating program that had some huge successes at the Olympics :) The figure skating program in China had only been in place for a couple of years and you can see them struggle -- how far things have come since then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_V0E0JP20

One of the commentators points out that it takes a long time to achieve a well-established figure skating program. If I could ever meet Yao Bin, I would say mission accomplished with the two beautiful pairs teams that won medals. 26 years since he was a competitor - the commentator hit it on the head when he said it takes time to establish a program well.

Edited to add: My mom and dad got Brian Orser's autograph at a meet-and-greet.

[Bonny]

All right everyone have you taken your naps, got plenty of pop corn in the house to pop, have the cell phone turned off this evening because it is time to go for the gold in the original dance tonight. May the best dressed, best rehearsed, with no mistakes, couple win. :D

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

All right everyone have you taken your naps, got plenty of pop corn in the house to pop, have the cell phone turned off this evening because it is time to go for the gold in the original dance tonight. May the best dressed, best rehearsed, with no mistakes, couple win. :D

Bonny, you're a day ahead of yourself. Tonight is the O.D., original dance. This is the one where they have to skate to a certain type of music, this year it is "folk dance" (it can be ANY country's folk dance). Monday night is the free dance, where they can be "free" to do anything they want within the outline of what is acceptable in dance and when the Gold will be awarded.

I don't have much faith in Ben & Tanith winning Gold, they may not even place on the podium. I don't know what it is with them this year, but they have, it seems, lost that "it" they had last year and the year before. I'm thinking their training partners, Davis/White, will place ahead of them.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

A friend of mine just sent me a message that the Mother of Canadian Ladies skater, Joannie Rochette, passed away in Vancouver. No details available at this time.
How awful!

[Bonny]

I had the wrong day turned on the TV Guide:o. Oh Well I plan on watching anyhow. :D Ben & Tanith seem to be working to hard. Your right about Davis/White. They are more natural looking in their moves where Ben/Tanith are just so intense. Have a good evening.:)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I had the wrong day turned on the TV Guide:o. Oh Well I plan on watching anyhow. :D Ben & Tanith seem to be working to hard. Your right about Davis/White. They are more natural looking in their moves where Ben/Tanith are just so intense. Have a good evening.:)

I get days mixed up sometimes, too! Pantry moments!:eek:

You know what, I think you hit it on the head in reference to Tanith & Ben...I wonder if their relationship is straining or something these days? Something is just different. I know they switched coaches because they thought they needed to go in a different direction, I'm thinking it might've been a wrong move...:(:confused:

[Bonny]

Poor Joannie that is terrible. Things can change so fast in our lives & loosing a mom has to be the worse of all.

[cassiesmom]

Ice dancing ... Belbin and Agosto are in 4th after the original dance. Davis and White are in second!

How sad for the young woman from Canada. Hopefully she can go on with her performances.

(MT4FF, I heard Andy Rooney describe figure skating on 60 Minutes tonight as a mixture of gymnastics and ballet ... I thought that was pretty insightful!)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Ice dancing ... Belbin and Agosto are in 4th after the original dance. Davis and White are in second!

How sad for the young woman from Canada. Hopefully she can go on with her performances.

(MT4FF, I heard Andy Rooney describe figure skating on 60 Minutes tonight as a mixture of gymnastics and ballet ... I thought that was pretty insightful!)

I wasn't surprised that Belbin and Agosto didn't pull up any. I thought their outfits were a little too much and too white! Davis & White are marvelous! You could see Meryl's body positions throughout the program a lot better with her costume than you could Tanith's and some of the other ladies.

I got a kick out of reliving the falls that occurred last year during the OD! I'd forgotten. The worst one was that of Canada's Marie-France Dubrueil and Patrice Lauzon. I had really grown to like them and was hoping they'd win the Gold. I never, ever liked that red head of the Italian team and although I felt bad for her partner I was glad they fell. She needed a reality check, she had an ego and attitude like Plushenko's!

I'm sure Joannie's Mom would want her to go ahead and compete. I hope Joannie can skate well in honor and memory of her Mom and it would be wonderful if somehow she garnered the Gold.

Edited to add: Mickey Rooney desribed figure skating pretty darned well!

[smokey the elder]

Interesting that someone brought up Surya Bonaly. She and Plushenko seem cut from the same cloth. My SO used to call her Surly Bonaly!:D

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Interesting that someone brought up Surya Bonaly. She and Plushenko seem cut from the same cloth. My SO used to call her Surly Bonaly!:D

Surya Bonaly may march to a different drummer, but I don't see her ego being as huge as Plushenko's. I've seen her live several times, she always had a big smile for the crowd...Plushenko always had leers and "look at me" kind of looks. He never seemed to be there for the fans, just for himself.

[Catty1]

Here's what former Canadian figure skating champ Elvis Stojko had to say about the men's skate at this Olympiad. He makes it clear this is not about the skaters at all - it is about the system. Read on.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=es-thoughts021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


The night they killed figure skating
Elvis Stojko

By Elvis Stojko, Yahoo! Sports Feb 19, 2:00 am EST

VANCOUVER, British Columbia – Sorry, Evan Lysacek.

You’re a great skater and all.

But that wasn’t Olympic champion material.

In Thursday night’s men’s free skate, Lysacek skated slow and his jumps weren’t close to the technical ability of defending Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko.

How can you be Olympic champion when you don’t even try the quad? If you’re going to take the quad out, why not take out another triple axel and just have more of the other stuff so the International Skating Union can make it more into an “art” recital.

Plushenko had a great performance. His footwork was great and maybe his spins weren’t quite as good as Lysacek’s, but it wasn’t that big of a difference. He also had a quad toe triple toe that wasn’t even attempted by anyone else. He did both triple axels, so all the jumps were there.

But the judges’ scoring was ridiculous.

Because of it, the sport took a step backward. Brian Boitano did the same thing, technically, in 1988. There are junior skaters who can skate that same program.

And the judges’ scoring probably killed figure skating because kids now are going to see this and say, “Oh, I don’t need a quad. I can just do great footwork for presentation marks and do a couple of nice spins and make it to Olympic champion.” With that type of scoring, you don’t have to risk it. You can play it safe and win gold.

In what other sports do you have to hold back in order to win?

The International Skating Union has taken the risk out of figure skating and it makes me sick.

If Plushenko had made some mistakes, then sure, maybe Lysacek deserves gold. But when you take the risk out of skaters’ programs, it doesn’t compute to me.

And it’s not a personal thing. I like Evan. But when you compare performances and have an outcome like this, the sport is going backward. And it hurts me to say it because I love this sport. But the judges made a mockery of it by giving Lysacek the gold.

I don’t want to rain on anybody’s parade because it’s not the skaters’ fault. It’s the system. And the figure skating community wants to control who wins and who loses. And what it does is it makes the component score more valid than the jumps so it can control whatever it wants. And that’s exactly what happened Thursday night at Pacific Coliseum.

How can the sport be put back on the right path? I have no idea. I haven’t even thought about it. It’s not up to me. Because people at the ISU obviously seem to know what they’re doing. Well, they think they know what they’re doing.

For me, the outcome on Thursday night was disappointing.

A few more thoughts on the men’s free skate:

• I thought Daisuke Takahashi was awesome. He tried the quad and he had the guts to go for it, and he should’ve been ahead of Lysacek in that aspect.

• Johnny Weir was great. He should’ve been higher than sixth – above Patrick Chan, who was fifth. Weir outskated Chan. He might’ve skated a little bit slow but he went out there and did his stuff. I feel bad for him.

• People say I’m hammering certain skaters. I’m not. It’s the system I don’t like and if you say I am biased … I already said I am not a fan of Weir’s skating, but he skated well tonight and deserved to be ahead of Chan.

In addition, Takahiko Kozuka – my favorite skater – did not get the points he deserved. He skated great, had awesome spins, the best edges in the competition, was very close with the quad and did a ton of triples.

Figure skating gets no respect because of outcomes like this. More feathers, head-flinging and so-called step sequences done at walking speed – that’s what the system wants.

I am going to watch hockey, where athletes are allowed to push the envelope. A real sport.

Elvis Stojko is Yahoo! Sports' Olympic figure skating analyst.

[caseysmom]

I disagree with him, its not a jumping contest its 4 minutes.

[Catty1]

The point Stojko was making is that, unlike other Olympic athletes who do their utmost and give it all, the scoring system in figure skating no longer encourages skaters to do that. Stojko landed a few quads in his career...if technical difficulty counts for much less - or nothing - from now on, it's a bit of a slam to the pioneers. To quote from the previous article:
...kids now are going to see this and say, “Oh, I don’t need a quad. I can just do great footwork for presentation marks and do a couple of nice spins and make it to Olympic champion.” With that type of scoring, you don’t have to risk it. You can play it safe and win gold.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-figure-skating/additional-information/about-the-sport_145912Fz.html


Singles

In singles skating, skaters must complete both a short program (maximum 2 minutes 50 seconds) of required steps, jumps, spins and combinations, and a longer free skating program (4 minutes for ladies, 4 minutes 30 seconds for men), both set to music. The free skate — worth two-thirds of a skater’s final score — allows the athletes to demonstrate their creativity, innovative moves and technical difficulty.

More here:

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-skating/news/newsid=3472.html


Judging

A panel of nine judges scores the programs but a random, secret draw by computer 45 minutes prior to the start of each segment of competition determines which seven of those judges' marks will form the result for that segment. The marks of all judges are still displayed and judges do not know if their marks are contributing to the score.

Scoring - ISU Judging System

The ISU Judging System (also known as Code of Points) was introduced in response to the judging scandal in the pairs event at the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Winter Games. Replacing the 6.0 scoring system, it was tested on the ISU Grand Prix in 2003-04 before being implemented in all ISU competitions in 2004-05. It was first used at the Olympic Winter Games in 2006.

Under the 6.0 system, judges scored the skaters in relation to each other. The marks were a reflection of the overall impression of a program. Under the ISU Judging System, each individual element is assigned a value. Skaters try to accrue as many points as possible while staying within the boundaries of the required elements.

There are two sets of marks: the Technical Elements Score (TES) and the Program Components Score (PCS). The TES is based on the difficulty of the elements in a program and the quality with which those elements are performed. The PCS grades the overall presentation and performance. The TES and the PCS are added together to determine the Total Segment Score (TSS) for each skater/couple in each program. The final results are determined by adding together the TSS from each program for each skater/couple.

• Technical Elements Score (TES)

The Technical Specialist identifies the elements performed and their Levels of Difficulty (where applicable). All elements are assigned a base value in the Scale of Values (SOV). Base values for jumps and throw jumps are based on the type of jump and the number of rotations. A triple Axel (8.2) is worth more points than the less difficult double Axel (3.5). A triple Lutz (6.0) is worth more than the less difficult triple Salchow (4.5). Non-jump elements such as spins, step sequences, lifts, death spirals and twizzles are assigned values based on the Level of Difficulty, which can range from Level 1 (the easiest) to Level 4 (the most difficult). The technical specialist will give the element a level based on the number of features it includes. A spin can be made more difficult by changing edge or position, showing a difficult variation of a position or entering the spin in a difficult way. The amount of variety in the steps and turns in step sequences will affect the Level.

Once an element is identified, the members of the judging panel score the quality of execution of each element, using seven Grades of Execution (GOE) ranging from -3 to +3. The GOE either adds to or deducts from the base value of the element. Each grade corresponds to a specific + or - numerical value which is indicated in the SOV. In determining the GOE, judges consider the quality of positions, speed, flow, entrances and exits of the elements. Judges first evaluate the positive features of an element and then reduce the score if there are any errors committed. The negative GOE to be applied is specified by the type of error on the element.

The judging panel's GOE for each element is determined by calculating the trimmed means of the grades of execution awarded by the judges chosen by the random draw. The highest and lowest values of the seven scoring judges are deleted and an average is made of the remaining values. This average becomes the final GOE for each element. The panel's GOE is rounded to two decimal places. The graded scores for all the individual elements are added together to determine the TES for the program.

[caseysmom]

Evan had also done quad's in his career but chose not to since he had a previous foot injury, I still disagree with that one opinion.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I certainly am not an expert and do not know what the answer is, but I do know what I like to see. And I know everyone has their own opinion, thoughts, and ideas. But....
Give me a SKATE that is enjoyable to watch because it is done well.
Not a jump fest of jumps that are done in an ugly manner, or worse, fallen on.

It is figure SKATING not figure JUMPING!

Those who feel so strongly about jumping need to organize themselves and start a new discipline...figure jumping.

Plushenko's foot work stinks. It's a bunch of flailing around, positions that are not hit with any importance. At least that is my take on them, and my opinion of them.

Stojko was a jumping machine and refused to admit that there was a "balletic" side of skating, but I always enjoyed seeing him live as he always looked into the audience and made you feel like he was there for you. I realise he's saying this is not a bash on any particular skaters, but I still think he's wrong on saying there needs to be quads, or a skater needs to have a quad in his arsenal.

You have to take into consideration the toll these jumps take on the skaters' bodies. They start doing all these jumps before they are done growing. I mean, for crying out loud, where is Tara Lipinski now? Part of the reason she isn't skating much anymore is because at the ripe old age of what, 17?, she had to have hip surgeries!:eek:

[caseysmom]

Maybe they can give Plushenko a gold medal for whining:rolleyes:

[Catty1]

Well, I love watching figure skating...but it will be a bit blander from now on.

M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.

I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.

This may sound OT - but Lyuba Weilitsch was a stunning and promising opera singer decades ago - and had her career cut short by teachers and managers who pushed her voice too far, too soon.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

In the old scoring system, the artistic score broke a tie if there was one. That is how Oksana Baiul won gold over Nancy Kerrigan.

Let's face it, part of figure skating HAS been artistry and presentation!

No matter what sport, each athlete can only push themselves to do what they can do.

I'd give Plushenko two Gold medals if it'd shut him up and send him away forever....for the whining that is, not for his skate!:eek:;):D

[caseysmom]

Well, I love watching figure skating...but it will be a bit blander from now on.

M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.

I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.

This may sound OT - but Lyuba Weilitsch was a stunning and promising opera singer decades ago - and had her career cut short by teachers and managers who pushed her voice too far, too soon.

Why will it be blander? Did you think Plushenko's performance was less bland than Evans? I would think focusing just on the jumps makes it blander, to me plushenko was very bland.

[Catty1]

With all due respect, Plushenko was far from the only one whining.

Since the scoring system for figure skating has changed, the outcomes will differ now.

I guess change brings complaining and whining. Hopefully it will all run well at the next Winter Olympics.:)

[caseysmom]

Plushenko showed very poor sportmanship, he is a whiner.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.

I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.

I'm sure there are some coaches that push too hard, some athletes that push themselves too hard, and even some parents that push the kids too hard.

Look at the "older" skaters, though. The ones that didn't have to do a bunch of triples, let alone quads. Even after all his health issues, Scott Hamilton has done some training and I heard he appeared in a couple of shows recently. Roz Sumners skated til she was 40, I believe. Kristi Yamaguchi can still skate well, as can Kurt Browning and several others from that era. Sure, they've had their injuries along the way, and yes, Kurt did do some quads in his day....but the skaters from the 70's, 80's and early 90's seem to have better longevity than the ones who have been brought up in this "7 triples or 5 triples and 2 quads are needed in your program" mentality.

It comes down to each skater needing to know what they can or can't do and doing the best they can with what is part of their "arsenal".

I've always been more of a fan of the professional skaters and skating events, where the skaters are skating for the joy and to entertain the fans.

I wish the World Pro competition could come back, though. I don't understand the politics, but someone told me something the ISU did pretty much makes it impossible for that competition to come back. So my question is...why can't a private pro skater organize some kind of professional competition? At one time, there was talk of some new skating organization to be started, for the pro's, about the pro's, run by the pro's, but obviously that never came to be for whatever reasons.

All sports will be controversial in one way or another, all fans will have a different idea of what is good and what isn't. And I don't think the judging will ever be 100% honest NOR 100% NOT subjective.

[Grace]

Within the new scoring system the point is made that jumps done in the last half of the long program get extra credit. Evan did more jumps in the last half than Plushenko.

For the last full minute of his performance, Plushenko did just the fancy footwork - and it wasn't as good as Evan, or Weir, or Daisuke.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Within the new scoring system the point is made that jumps done in the last half of the long program get extra credit. Evan did more jumps in the last half than Plushenko.

For the last full minute of his performance, Plushenko did just the fancy footwork - and it wasn't as good as Evan, or Weir, or Daisuke.

You are right! I'd forgotten Plushenko front-loaded his program.

Therefore, no matter what the jump, when a skater does them after the half-way mark, they are going to garner more points because of that!

And I couldn't agree with you more that Plushenko's footwork is not as good as the other skaters'. I think almost any skater does better footwork than Plushenko.

[K9karen]

Maybe they can give Plushenko a gold medal for whining:rolleyes:

And just being plain ICKY? :p

[Bonny]

WOW! Some real skating tonight, don't think I will be able to drift off to sleep after all this. When I watched the Canadians I thought of my mom & how she would of loved them & had tears in my eyes. I think they all did magnificent each with their own unique styles & program. I love Ice Dancing!:)

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

WOW! Some real skating tonight, don't think I will be able to drift off to sleep after all this. When I watched the Canadians I thought of my mom & how she would of loved them & had tears in my eyes. I think they all did magnificent each with their own unique styles & program. I love Ice Dancing!:)

I'll preface to say I used to go out of the room when ice dancing was on during all the many, many competitions and shows that were on tv when I first started paying attention to skating (1994). Over the years, certain dance pairs have caught my eye and I've tried to listen to the commentators to understand it better.

They sure gave out some highs cores! When they put Meryl & Charlie's score up of 107.?? (and that was with a 1.00 deduction for something I haven't found out what yet), I thought for sure they'd have first place. But then not only did Moir/Virtue skate really well, they were given a 110.??!

As much as I hate to say it, Belbin/Agosto didn't deserve 3rd place even though I was hoping somehow they'd get it for a N. American sweep on the podium. I also hate saying this, but....they seemed to do a lot of flailing about reminding me of Plushenko. Maybe my mind was wandering too much or something, but I kept thinking as I watched them "where are the difficult twizzles? where are the difficult footwork sequences?"

One of the commentators said Tanith Belbin "Tweeted" "Last Dance" as her song of the day......he speculated it meant this was her last ice dance ever. I wonder if she really meant that or just for today??? She and Ben are slated as cast members of Stars On Ice I think....????

[Catty1]

Joannie Rochette could be skating for Mars, and I would still root for her. :(

http://olympics.thestar.com/2010/article/770094--your-olympic-morning-tip-sheet-day-12


CHRIS ZELKOVICH’S WHAT TO WATCH: There’s been plenty of talk about athletes dealing with pressure at the Olympics, but they all pale in comparison to what Canadian figure skater Joannie Rochette is facing. When she takes to the ice Tuesday night (7:30 p.m. ET) she will be doing so only 48 hours after the unexpected death of her mother. The fact Rochette is skating at all is testament to her strength. If she ends up on the podium it will be one of the most amazing accomplishments in Olympics history.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Joannie Rochette could be skating for Mars, and I would still root for her. :(

http://olympics.thestar.com/2010/article/770094--your-olympic-morning-tip-sheet-day-12

There will be a tremendous amount of emotion throughout the building when Joannie skates.
I'm thinking one of two things will happen...The emotions will make her soar or she'll be so overcome that she flounders. I surely hope it is the former. I've always liked Joannie and rooted for her to place well.

[caseysmom]

The russians are just leaving a bad impression this year....last night they had ropes on her to help him lift her...wtf....

[Grace]

Getting very technical here - an article from the NY Times - The Moves They Don't Want You To See. (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/23/sports/olympics/0223-downgrade.html?hp)

Interesting. Over on the left is a list of entrants in the Women's competition - click on a name and you'll find out who rotates the best.

Maybe more information than I care about - but it does explain scoring.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

The russians are just leaving a bad impression this year....last night they had ropes on her to help him lift her...wtf....

You'd think for competition that would be against the rules! It should deem their lifts & carries less difficult!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Getting very technical here - an article from the NY Times - The Moves They Don't Want You To See. (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/23/sports/olympics/0223-downgrade.html?hp)

Interesting. Over on the left is a list of entrants in the Women's competition - click on a name and you'll find out who rotates the best.

Maybe more information than I care about - but it does explain scoring.

That IS interesting! I knew about blades starting to rotate on the ice before a jump and on the landing, but didn't know about the toe pick thing for the toe-loop! So many skaters do a "flutz" instead of a true lutz, I'm glad there is replay for the judges to look at that because if it's supposed to go off the outside edge, that is how it should be done. If it isn't being done that way, then it shouldn't get scored as a true lutz.

I also knew that Marai is notorious for cheating her jumps.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm slightly more than a casual fan and I do attempt to understand at least what the skaters are doing or are supposed to be doing. These little inside info things help me understand why the skaters get the scores they get.

[Bonny]

LOL! The Russians with the ropes on them was very interesting. Maybe like Elvis Stoeko SP? said they are improving the sport? ROFL! Maybe in the future we will get to see all kinds of ropes on the skaters & they will be doing triple dipple quads & throwing each other doing somersaults in mid air. Lord only knows what is next.

[Catty1]

Lord only knows what is next.

Monty Python's Skating Circus? :p:D

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Check these guys out, Vladimir Besedin and Oleksey Polishuk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN9ZatamcnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwRA-1mYKM&feature=related

It's pretty much comic relief for the now-defunct Champions On Ice show that used to tour. I've seen them several times.

And then there is Irina Gregorian. She's pretty amazing what she does with the hoops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OImp5O6ggA

[cassiesmom]

I thought the Canadian ice dance team was beautiful. I didn't like Belbin and Agosto's costumes or their music. I didn't like that the Russian team was allowed to use their costume pieces to support their moves.

[caseysmom]

I thought the Canadian ice dance team was beautiful. I didn't like Belbin and Agosto's costumes or their music. I didn't like that the Russian team was allowed to use their costume pieces to support their moves.

Yes the canadians were breathtaking. Does anyone know if they are a couple? If not they sure can fake the romance.

[Catty1]

The Canadians had a movement and elegance and a togetherness that comes from competing with each other ever since Moir was 8 years old and Virtue was 6.

They did have a romance as teens, but it didn't last...it was much better for their skating that they not be that involved. However, I read one comment that said there is a special closeness even after the romance is over - and that creates the 'extra' that these two displayed.

[Catty1]

...wow...

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-skating/news/newsid=50543.html#rochette+after+emotional+perform ance

ETA: Her dad's face as he left after her performance. She is their only child.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100224/capt.olyfs57402240611.vancouver_olympics_figure_sk ating_olyfs574.jpg

[Bonny]

Joannie & her dad are really going to need each other now & after the Olympics. Joannie had such good support from the crowd last night. I was disappointed in our coverage last night. They kept bouncing around to the other events & didn't do justice to the ladies short program. I hope Joannie metals & can hold it together in the long program.

[RICHARD]

Monty Python's Skating Circus? :p:D

How's about a naked Katarina Witt?:eek:

-------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98

Check out the move at about the 1:10 mark...

26 years later men are worried about a quad?

What a bunch of pansies. I'd love to see them try to "drag undercarriage" like that.

26 years later I still think feel uncomfortable watching this.

It's porn on ice...In a good way.

[Bonny]

NBC had the ladies on late last night again but it was worth the wait with no advertisments in between. Maybe they had it on late Richard because of their costumes? I stayed awake & enjoyed all the ladies programs, & their costumes. Joannie is being interviewed by NBC this morning. She made it through & faced the challenge & made her mom proud.:)

[finn's mom]

Mao Asada looked so disappointed that she took silver. Joannie's a strong woman. Kim Yu-Na is mesmerizing to watch. I also loved Mirai Nigasu's performance. Can't wait to see her at the next games!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

The ladies event was a good show! All the top flight women did very well, IMO.
I was so happy for Joannie to hang onto 3rd.
The young American women did well with Marai pulling up to 4th and Rachel finishing in the top 10!

[Bonny]

Saturday evening they have the ice skaters gala so we will get to see them once again doing what they do best FIGURE SKATING. :):love::)

[RICHARD]

NBC had the ladies on late last night again but it was worth the wait with no advertisments in between. Maybe they had it on late Richard because of their costumes?

No, the lateness was because NBC could not schedule things properly.

I used to watch figure skating years ago, When it was fun to try and catch a gal flipping up her skirt. The costumes for the men and women are too brutal to look at these days...... That's why I say let's go back to the old Olympics and make everyone compete nude.:eek::o;)

[Bonny]

Richard,The Olympics aren't the garden of Eden & besides we would all go blind. :eek:

[RICHARD]

Richard,The Olympics aren't the garden of Eden & besides we would all go blind. :eek:

Adam and Eve weren't the original pairs entry?;):eek::D

[cassiesmom]

I am so happy for Joannie Rochette. I wonder what is next for her, if she will continue to compete. I thought that Kim Yu Na was beautiful. Like Finn's Mom said, mesmerizing. They talked about how much pressure she was placed under in South Korea. She's only 19 years old! Give her a break, people!

[Karen]

I was glad that everyone did a good job and tried their hardest, and that no one fell in the top group of skaters. Each young woman seemed pleased with her results, and even if Mao Asada looked a little upset, she did smile when awarded the silver.

One can be taught jumps, and to some degree artistry and musicality, but there is no real training program for grace under pressure, which they all exhibited.

And I loved the color of Kim Yu-Na's costume best, it was very pretty!

[phesina]

An article in the Dance section of yesterday's New York Times (Sat. 2/27) on a topic discussed in this thread:
"In Figure Skating World, Winning Leaps Over Art" - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/arts/dance/27skating.html?pagewanted=1&th&emc=th

[cassiesmom]

www.graphjam.com

This is me!
http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/funny-graphs-ice-dancing.jpg

[Karen]

Hey, all us skating fans might enjoy this:

Ice Skating Special (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/03/joannie-rochette-tribute-to-mother-thin-ice/) with Joannie Rochette and others in a different competition.

[Bonny]

Karen, That sounds great & sad too. I bet no one will have a dry eye. Will be watching the TV guide in the newspaper for the time & channel. Thanks!

[cassiesmom]

I'm bumping up another old thread. I missed the Russian teenager landing the first quadruple jump in competition. I searched for Joannie Rochette on line and discovered that she became a doctor after her skating career. There was a pair wearing navy blue last night (Canadians? ice dancers?) and I thought they were just beautiful.

[cassiesmom]

I stayed up way too late last night watching men's figure skating. Wowie wow!

[phesina]

Wowie wow indeed!

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love: