Flight 253

[Grace]

From Amsterdam to Detroit, today - another incident involving a Nigerian man.

From the Detroit Free Press -

2nd man in custody after in-air disruption today

By DEVLIN BARRETT
Associated Press

WASHINGTON — The Associated Press has learned that a second Nigerian man has been taken into custody aboard a jetliner in Detroit after locking himself in the airliner’s bathroom.

A law enforcement official tells the AP that the incident took place aboard the same Northwest flight that was attacked on Christmas Day. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the incident was ongoing.

A Delta spokeswoman says all 256 passengers have been safely taken off the plane. Delta operates the Northwest flight.

[pomtzu]

Now doesn't that just give everyone such and warm and fuzzy feeling about flying the friendly skies???:confused:

I don't do planes - I take the train! :p

[lizbud]

What is going on?:eek:

Ivana Trump was also escorted off a plane in Fla. Different reason though,
she objected to screaming children on board.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=9429015

[Cataholic]

All of this is so incredulous. These rules about liquids, breast milk (though I have heard that has changed) drinks, etc., and somehow someone got past security with all the tools necessary to detonate a plane? Someone on some 'list'- reported by his own father, and he got on a plane without a secondary inspection?

[Grace]

I was watching several of the Sunday morning shows today. Someone brought up the father of #1 going to the U.S. Embassy 6 months ago. Another of the panelists wondered to whom the father spoke - maybe a Nigerian who happened to work there? Maybe the message never got passed up the chain?

As for the ingredients of the incendiary device - another panelist questioned - how do we know #1 brought all the stuff on board by himself? He had a reservation, and seat assignment. Maybe someone in the cleaning/maintenance crew stuck something to the bottom of his seat - or in the bathroom? Anything is possible these days.

It's beginning to look like #2 is just a bad copycat. He did everything to draw attention to himself - unlike #1.

Actually, it was kind of interesting to see all the luggage lined up on the runway, and the dog sniffing each piece.

Like Ellie, I also don't do planes. I drive - or stay home :)

[Grace]

What is going on?:eek:

Ivana Trump was also escorted off a plane in Fla. Different reason though,
she objected to screaming children on board.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=9429015

She's a piece of work - all that money certainly hasn't seemed to buy her happiness or peace of mind.

[pomtzu]

Like Ellie, I also don't do planes. I drive - or stay home :)

Most people think I'm nuts for not flying. I suppose I would in an absolute emergency, but I've never had such an emergency crop up yet.

A couple of years ago I passed up an all expense paid trip to Maui, with accommodations in an oceanfront share condo. A friend of mine was giving it to me, since he already had the date reserved and couldn't change it, and he couldn't go due to family issues.

I was tempted, but in the end, just couldn't do it. Not an emergency! :eek::p

[lizbud]

I read somewhere that nut #1 had a powder sewn into his underware
and the liguid was in a syringe he had on him. They should have spotted
the needle at least.

Nut #2 stayed the the bathroom for over an hour & would not get
out in preparation for landing.

[Grace]

I read somewhere that nut #1 had a powder sewn into his underware
and the liguid was in a syringe he had on him. They should have spotted
the needle at least.

Nut #2 stayed the the bathroom for over an hour & would not get
out in preparation for landing.

The syringe did not have a needle on it. You don't need the needle to draw up liquids.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Nut #2 stayed the the bathroom for over an hour &
would not get out in preparation for landing.

Solution:

Build the bathrooms as a seperate and sealed compartment in the plane.
* "Occupant" stays too long or acts phunny ... Pilot turns on the *knock-out gas*
and puts the dude to sleep. Land and haul his/her ass out later.

OR ---
Build the potty as an *EJECTABLE Pod* ---
* Trouble in Potty 3 ? --- Push da Button & ***WHOOSH*** --- Off he goes!

;)

[lizbud]

Solution:

Build the bathrooms as a seperate and sealed compartment in the plane.
* "Occupant" stays too long or acts phunny ... Pilot turns on the *knock-out gas*
and puts the dude to sleep. Land and haul his/her ass out later.

OR ---
Build the potty as an *EJECTABLE Pod* ---
* Trouble in Potty 3 ? --- Push da Button & ***WHOOSH*** --- Off he goes!

;)


Sounds good to me.:D Grace, I didn't know that.

[Grace]

#2 was in the bathroom because he was ill. Not sure if it was an up or down problem. Whichever, he needed the facilities no matter it was the last hour of the flight.

He is a business man from Nigeria.

I'm just retired from Michigan, but if I had to go, I would go - rules or no rules.

[cassiesmom]

I guess I am confused; and I haven't been on an airplane for a few years now. Flight 253 on Christmas, the man had explosives stitched into his underwear. I heard on the news tonight there is almost no way to screen for that. But the second man, was he in the lavatory for a long time only because he became ill? Would they have re-screened passengers arriving from Nigeria who were continuing from Amsterdam to Detroit? What would be the advantage of restricting all passengers to their seats for the final hour of a flight? I don't see it.

[kitten645]

I will continue to fly because I won't give in to the terrorists. I'm sort of fatalistic anyway. If' it's your turn to go, well there's not much to be done about it.
In any case, I can't believe that this guy got thru security in two different cities! He flew from Nigeria to Amsterdam and then onto Detroit. I saw an interview with one of the passengers that subdued him. Looks like it was quick thinking on their part.
I believe the father reported him to both the US Embassy and to the Nigerian government. This kid had all the privledges in the world. :rolleyes:Makes you wonder about humans. :(

[Grace]

I guess I am confused; and I haven't been on an airplane for a few years now. Flight 253 on Christmas, the man had explosives stitched into his underwear. I heard on the news tonight there is almost no way to screen for that. But the second man, was he in the lavatory for a long time only because he became ill? Would they have re-screened passengers arriving from Nigeria who were continuing from Amsterdam to Detroit? What would be the advantage of restricting all passengers to their seats for the final hour of a flight? I don't see it.

Yes, the second man was ill. The restriction is to hopefully prevent another nutcase from trying to blow up a plane as it is getting ready to land. Blow it up over water - no one sees it, and only those on board die. Blow it up over land - it is visible, and there will be fatalities on the ground.

I also heard that this passenger was really given the 3rd degree going through security in Amsterdam. That was said by more than one of the other passengers when they were interviewed in Detroit.

[Puckstop31]

I've said it before... I will say it again....

I have been in the same room with this enemy, more than once. I know how they "think". The only way to be really 'safe' is to be VERY not "PC".

[smokey the elder]

I'm concerned that some of the new security restrictions will start impacting peoples' health. What if diabetics can't bring their test kits, insulin and syringes on board? What if someone gets sick in the last hour of the flight and needs to use the bathroom?

Full body scanners containing nitrate detectors (most explosives contain this stuff) already exist and may be the best solution (for now). Certainly, the human error of blowing off the guy's father shows that no matter what kind of machines or high tech toys you have for security, human errors must be taken into account. I just heard this morning that the guy was helped to board without a passport, and they're looking for the person who facilitated that.

[sparks19]

Yes it has changed a bit that you can now bring breastmilk and juice and other things through security and onto the flight. When we flew with Hannah twice before we were allowed liquids you just tell t hem you have them and someone takes you over to the side and basically just shines this little light on the bottle. don't know exactly how that works but it only takes a few seconds and then you go through.

That being said... we don't fly anymore because I just am NOT a good flier anymore. It's one of the very few things that sends me into complete panic attack mode even days before the flight. So now we drive lol.

[pomtzu]

That being said... we don't fly anymore because I just am NOT a good flier anymore. It's one of the very few things that sends me into complete panic attack mode even days before the flight. So now we drive lol.

Glad to see that I'm not the only one! :eek:
I never was a good flyer.

[sparks19]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one! :eek:
I never was a good flyer.

oddly enough... I used to LOVE to fly. And then I had Hannah and now it scared the bejeebies out of me. when we would fly the last two time days even weeks before the flight I would have nightmares about it, I would FREAK out when the plane started moving and then I would have nightmares about it for weeks afterwards. and still randomly have nightmares about it even when I'm not about to fly anywhere lol.

[pomtzu]

oddly enough... I used to LOVE to fly. And then I had Hannah and now it scared the bejeebies out of me. when we would fly the last two time days even weeks before the flight I would have nightmares about it, I would FREAK out when the plane started moving and then I would have nightmares about it for weeks afterwards. and still randomly have nightmares about it even when I'm not about to fly anywhere lol.

I have to blame it on my best friend who was a stewardess (when they were called that) with American Airlines for many years. She used to tell me some really wicked horror stories about flights she was on. That was enough to keep me off planes. Of course 9/11 sealed the deal permanently. Even my brother who had his pilot's license and flew his own plane for years (he's too old now), won't fly commercially after 9/11.

[caseysmom]

Statistically speaking flying is far and above much safer than driving, I don't understand why people don't look at the numbers.

[smokey the elder]

Dry numbers lose the heavyweight match with one's gut feelings. Just human nature, I suppose.

[pomtzu]

Statistically speaking flying is far and above much safer than driving, I don't understand why people don't look at the numbers.

True - but I just don't like the idea of falling from the sky, or other things too gross to go into here. The closer to the ground I am, the better I like it.

[caseysmom]

Cars are so much more dangerous thats what I don't understand. My friends son is in the hospital with a broken back, neck, skull...from a car...and this type of thing happens all the time but people don't think twice before jumping behind the wheel it just seems kind of funny to me.

[sparks19]

Statistically speaking flying is far and above much safer than driving, I don't understand why people don't look at the numbers.

I'm aware of that :) but it just doesn't make me feel any better lol. and 99.9% off the time if you swim in the ocean you aren't going to meet up with a shark but I won't do that either LOL

Plus with a car accident you don't really see it coming... it just happens in an instant. but when a plane goes down you have a few moments of complete terror.

I didn't say my fear was rational :) I don't know WHY it only started after I had Hannah but it's one that I am just not able to overcome at this time without LOTS of alcohol prior to flying lol

[sparks19]

Cars are so much more dangerous thats what I don't understand. My friends son is in the hospital with a broken back, neck, skull...from a car...and this type of thing happens all the time but people don't think twice before jumping behind the wheel it just seems kind of funny to me.

Because it's something you do pretty much everyday or multiple times a day so it just becomes second nature. But how many times a year do you get on a plane?

Now a flight attendant flies practically every single day and they don't think twice about it because it's just second nature for them to be on a plane :)

[pomtzu]

Cars are so much more dangerous thats what I don't understand. My friends son is in the hospital with a broken back, neck, skull...from a car...and this type of thing happens all the time but people don't think twice before jumping behind the wheel it just seems kind of funny to me.

But "usually" auto accidents are within normal driving distances - not on long distances in which you would fly.
If I travel long distance, I take the train. Sure - it takes longer than a plane - but I'm still close to the ground! ;)

[sparks19]

PLUS when you drive it's usually YOU or someone you trust that is in control. Now of course if an accident happens that's not always in your control but your vehicle is under your control and not in the hands of someone you've never laid eyes on.

and before I started driving on my own and got comfortable with my vehicle... I was a pretty paranoid person in the car.

[Medusa]

PLUS when you drive it's usually YOU or someone you trust that is in control. Now of course if an accident happens that's not always in your control but your vehicle is under your control .

That's the point I was going to make. I'm not afraid to fly, though. Now my fear is terrorism on flights and not actually the flight itself. It's always something. LOL :p

[Grace]

It's not so much the terrorism thing that bothers me. I don't want to get stuck in a plane on a runway for hours and hours. And that happens more and more frequently.

[smokey the elder]

I'm with Grace on that. I have mild claustrophobia, and the idea of being trapped on the plane freaks me out. If I'm driving I can stop and bail out!

[Pinot's Mom]

I cannot let the terrorism threat alter plans. We still fly, and Lord willing, always will. We enjoy travel too much.

[cassiesmom]

I like to drive, except that traffic jams make me panicky. I was once behind an accident that shut down the highway -- it was the helpless "can't get out of here" feeling. I think being stuck in a plane on the tarmac would probably have the same effect on me.

Travelers are measuring their toiletries into 3-ounce bottles and this guy is sewing explosives into his tighty whities ... what's wrong with this picture?

[RICHARD]

George Bush is to blame for this.

If the government hadn't flown those two jets into the WTC-we would not have to worry.

------------------


LOLOLOLOL,
I was watching some simp on msnbc who started a traveler's web site or some such nonsense.

This idiot woman admitted to flying some 40 times with a bottle of mace and never being bothered about it.

I love it when people like the AH politician who would not hang up his phone, Ivana Trump and every family that climbs on board an airplane begin to complain about the service, hassles, threats and other crap while the rest of the responsible travelers have to listen to that babble..

It really is bad enough to wonder if someone wants to auger in the plane you are on...When you hear these delusion fools who don't want to behave or have to make a scene while on the tarmac how does that make you feel?

Make them travel on the wings or in the landing gear bay....


Wah,

No one wants to be searched or scanned...

Think of it this way.

When they come across your body in the wreckage, you really don't have anything to complain about anymore.

Rock on.

[Lady's Human]

One question:

When was the last El Al flight taken out?

[Cataholic]

Cars are so much more dangerous thats what I don't understand. My friends son is in the hospital with a broken back, neck, skull...from a car...and this type of thing happens all the time but people don't think twice before jumping behind the wheel it just seems kind of funny to me.

Since I moved home in 1995, I hardly ever fly. Since J came along, I have flown twice. So, I am not really a traveller by any stretch. But, I do drive all the time, of course. I rationalize your comments like this: most of the time, a car wreck will be a non-fatal situation. A plane wreck is usually a fatal situation. I would rather take my chances on the car situation.

[Grace]

One question:

When was the last El Al flight taken out?

Don't forget Southwest :)

Let's see, Richard Reid and his shoe bomb happened about 8 years ago. As far as I can recall, this is the first incident of this type since then.

How many planes have taken off and landed, world wide, in those 8 years?

[Lady's Human]

Point being, El Al has very strict screening for their flights.

However, it's based on suspect profiling, biometric monitoring and intelligence feeds from military and civilian sources. It is very, very thorough, and would never pass muster with certain political interests in the US.

They're more concerned with making sure that an 80 y/o grandmother is given the same security screening as a 23 y/o arab male who bought a one way ticket 2 hours before the flight with cash.

[RICHARD]

Point being, El Al has very strict screening for their flights.

However, it's based on suspect profiling, biometric monitoring and intelligence feeds from military and civilian sources. It is very, very thorough, and would never pass muster with certain political interests in the US.

They're more concerned with making sure that an 80 y/o grandmother is given the same security screening as a 23 y/o arab male who bought a one way ticket 2 hours before the flight with cash.

El Al?

I heard they do a rectal/prostate exams and Pap smears to all passengers-just in case.

El Al?

Hasta te hablan a tu mama a ver si eres un maldito!!:eek::):D.


---------------------------

Let's play devil's advocate here.

For all the flights to and from the U.S. EVERYONE has to be screened.

You have to remember that they screenings probably are not as detailed/involved for passengers at every airport. Foreign officials do not
want to tick the locals off and certainly do not want any 'foreign' carrier's plane to land in THEIR back yard.

Best to get the 'Muricans" out of your hair.


To even THINK that tighter screening in the U.S. will prevent something like a jacking or bombing here is very interesting.

I love unicorns and Leprachauns and all that is make-believe.;)


Last El Al flight successfully jacked? 1969. Even they couldn't pull off an 'undefeated season'.:eek:

[Lady's Human]

Most of the methods used by El AL were implemented BECAUSE of the spate of jackings and attempted bombings they had in '68-'70.

Hasn't happened since.

Not saying it won't, no system is perfect, but the current system, despite what Sec. Napolitano said, is severely broken.

[RICHARD]

Not saying it won't, no system is perfect, but the current system, despite what Sec. Napolitano said, is severely broken.

Agreed.

What makes me laugh is the way the story "reads".

'How did this idiot make it past U.S. authorities?' Which authorities are these?

First we have to see how this joker got on board.

Then, we make changes according to that story.

-----------------------------


The bright side of this story?

The terrorists have been thinking of ways to get explosives onto aircraft.

Back to the drawing board for them! I love inept terrorists.



BTW?

I wonder why any group would claim responsibility for a botched move like that?

[Medusa]

I wonder why any group would claim responsibility for a botched move like that?

Cranial rectosis.

[caseysmom]

Since I moved home in 1995, I hardly ever fly. Since J came along, I have flown twice. So, I am not really a traveller by any stretch. But, I do drive all the time, of course. I rationalize your comments like this: most of the time, a car wreck will be a non-fatal situation. A plane wreck is usually a fatal situation. I would rather take my chances on the car situation.

Well I'm not saying I don't understand because I get scared at takeoff's also it is just ironic to me that none of us usually feel that way about driving a car, I guess we take it for granted because we drive more often. With two new teen drivers trust me cars make me think twice now!

[RICHARD]

Cranial rectosis.

AKA

Cranio-rectal Asphyxiation?:eek:

[Alysser]

Well I'm not saying I don't understand because I get scared at takeoff's also it is just ironic to me that none of us usually feel that way about driving a car, I guess we take it for granted because we drive more often. With two new teen drivers trust me cars make me think twice now!

I don't get scared of flying at all, hell, I hate airport security and jams as much as the next person but maybe I'm a weirdo, the thought of flight is just fascinating to me. I've wanted to be an astronaut (secretly) for the past 2 years (my sci-fi obsession don't help this) and honestly was really upset when I found out I couldn't be because I am not in perfect physical shape, damn this heart condition. I guess I'm odd, but I think Space Travel would be absolutely amazing. I LOVE getting as close to it as possible so I'll fly anytime. It's always something I'll wanna do..hopefully in my next life. ;)

Anyway, I know what you mean about how it's funny that driving is just as dangerous if not much more yet people still drive. But then again, human nature is funny to. I agree that driving is second nature to most people and it's just something you're used to. Although it sucks that it's so easy to get a liscence for some people. :(

I too am wondering how the heck he got passed security in TWO countries with an explosive device in his underwear :confused: I heard that his father had said that he was acting suspcious to authorities but they didn't listen apparently. That seems to happen far too often. I hope they find out more soon and I am glad it didn't end up like the terrorists had intended it to.

[RICHARD]

I guess trying to explode your underwear doesn't help?:eek::rolleyes::confused:

---------------------------------

Secret of 'mile high club' revealed

A philosopher has unravelled the mystery of why randy plane passengers can risk everything to join the mile high club after a study at Heathrow airport.

Alain de Botton spent a week observing passengers passing through the airport and discovered that the fear of death makes them shed their inhibitions.

Because subconsciously they accept they might die while flying, it arouses ancient animal survival passions that sometimes cannot be quelled, he explained.

"Airports bring us closer to the possibility of death.

"Such an idea makes us free of inhibitions, so we make love in airplanes. Feeling our mortality, we feel more free towards sex than usual," he told Croatian newspaper Jutarnji List.

-------------------

FREE? Does this guy know about the penalties for pulling stunts like THAT?:rolleyes:

[Grace]

First we have to see how this joker got on board.


Considering he bought a one-way ticket, paid in cash, and had no baggage.

Red flags anyone :eek:

[RICHARD]

Considering he bought a one-way ticket, paid in cash, and had no baggage.

Red flags anyone :eek:

That's my prob with the reporting.

They blame the U.S. officials for letting him on board?:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Seriously,
Janet and Obama really care about how we fly?:rolleyes:

What is the security on a private plane like AF1?

-----------------

Everyone is scrambling to blame everyone else about this turd.

The U.S. has little or no control over who boards a plane in a foreign country.
Oh, btw, we can suggest who gets on, after that?

How may Kareem Abdul Muhammed , Cassius Clay, Chad Ochocinco people are their on the planet.

To even think that we can have a lead on all the people on our "watch lists"
is probably the stupidest idea we all could have.

Do a Google search on YOURNAMEHERE and see how many people there are with your First, Last, MI....then? Think about how many times you have been mistaken for someone else.


So far? I was a serial killer, a delinquent father and god know what else, because I shared a name with these creeps.:rolleyes:

-------------------------------

Everyone is indignant of being searched, prodded or squeezed, yet they do not want to die when some idiot "remodels" the section where they are sitting.

The local news is talking about the 'wave scanners' that wil be used to check passengers.

THe reporter states that the screener will be able to see everything under the passenger's clothes-down to what kind of underwear you have on.

Oooooh! Who really cares?

If have to show my arse to get where I am going, safely?

We are so paranoid about getting on a plane, we really don't realize that the people fishing your body out of the ocean don't care about your underwear.

I am more nervous about how they fish my fat arse from the ocean after the 'fall'.:eek::rolleyes::confused:

[Medusa]

Everyone is indignant of being searched, prodded or squeezed, yet they do not want to die when some idiot "remodels" the section where they are sitting.

The local news is talking about the 'wave scanners' that wil be used to check passengers.

THe reporter states that the screener will be able to see everything under the passenger's clothes-down to what kind of underwear you have on.

Oooooh! Who really cares?

If have to show my arse to get where I am going, safely?

We are so paranoid about getting on a plane, we really don't realize that the people fishing your body out of the ocean don't care about your underwear.

I am more nervous about how they fish my fat arse from the ocean after the 'fall'.:eek::rolleyes::confused:

I'm w/ya on this one, RICHARD. If they want to see what I've got, well, "that'll learn 'em!" ;)

[RICHARD]

I love the fact that people will complain about the government getting the info on this guy and why things moved so slowly.

Why should we have profiled this poor fella? I mean, isn't that a violation of his civil rights? How many other parents will turn their wayward kids in to the CIA or ? because the are doing a little forward thinking?

Obviously there is a major malfunction in the minds of the people who want Gitmo closed-gee, i think I heard that two of the planners of the attempted bombing were former Gitmo Guests.

That B@st@rd GWB let them loose and that is the way they thank him?

I said this before and will stand by my comment-

The U.S. and BO are gonna get tested by these jerks and it be not as bad as 9/11, but enough to shake our faith in our leaders and the people under them.

Our own vanity, stupidity and belief in CHANGE AND HOPE that will allow it to happen.

--------------

Chicago, Michigan....where ever.......:eek:

[moosmom]

That does THAT tell you??? It tells you that the U.S. is still letting it's guard down when it comes to homeland security. It's only a matter of time, in my opinion. I pray every day that we and the men and women who are away defending out freedom, stay safe.

[RICHARD]

That does THAT tell you??? It tells you that the U.S. is still letting it's guard down when it comes to homeland security. It's only a matter of time, in my opinion.


We only can extend 'our rules' about air travel so far across the planet.
We have to depend on other countries to enforce those rules.

There are people who do like the U.S. and will not help in any way, shape or form.

We just have to hunker down and wait until the people who are screaming about how strict the rules are, to stop whining the NEXT time something happens, then people may get some religion.:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

the parents of a kid complained that a TSA screener took away their kid's Play Doh.

Seriously?

Check out what plastic explosives looks and feels like.:confused::eek:

---------

I swear, I really hate people that make a big stinking pile of poop over having to follow the rules.

I wonder what kind of stink they would make if some nutjob did blow up the plane with cans of make-believe kiddie 'modeling compound'.

I seem to remember that the Lockerbie crash was caused by an idiot who happened to check in the luggage at another AP-it as transferred onto flight 103 from another flight.

[Marigold2]

Everyone flying should have the full body scan. If you don't want the scan then drive. But do not compromise the safety of everyone else on that plane because you don't want them to see your fat rolls, sagging skin or whatever. These people who scan you do not know who you are, they don't know your name, will never see you again and frankly don't care how big your behind is, only whats in your behind. Same thing with kids, it is not porn to scan a child, some adults could put things into a child or infant as well as an adult. Being scanned is something we as Americans can do for our safety and the safety of all on our flight. Do I want these people to see me semi-naked in the scan NO but I will do it for my fellow Americans on that flight. I will do what I can to help. We expect our sons and daughters to fight for freedom in a foreign land and risk their lives everyday. I can do this.

[smokey the elder]

I agree about the scanners; what is it with us Americans and skin, anyway? The data are supposedly destroyed immediately after you pass the scanner. (They always make me think of "Total Recall" but there you could see the bones!:eek:)

[Grace]

From the NY Times -


Meet Mikey, 8: U.S. Has Him on Watch List
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

The Transportation Security Administration, under scrutiny after last month’s bombing attempt, has on its Web site a “mythbuster” that tries to reassure the public.

: The No-Fly list includes an 8-year-old boy.

Buster: No 8-year-old is on a T.S.A. watch list.

“Meet Mikey Hicks,” said Najlah Feanny Hicks, introducing her 8-year-old son, a New Jersey Cub Scout and frequent traveler who has seldom boarded a plane without a hassle because he shares the name of a suspicious person. “It’s not a myth.”

Michael Winston Hicks’s mother initially sensed trouble when he was a baby and she could not get a seat for him on their flight to Florida at an airport kiosk; airline officials explained that his name “was on the list,” she recalled.

The first time he was patted down, at Newark Liberty International Airport, Mikey was 2. He cried.

After years of long delays and waits for supervisors at every airport ticket counter, this year’s vacation to the Bahamas badly shook up the family. Mikey was frisked on the way there, then more aggressively on the way home.

“Up your arms, down your arms, up your crotch — someone is patting your 8-year-old down like he’s a criminal,” Mrs. Hicks recounted. “A terrorist can blow his underwear up and they don’t catch him. But my 8-year-old can’t walk through security without being frisked.”

It is true that Mikey is not on the federal government’s “no-fly” list, which includes about 2,500 people, less than 10 percent of them from the United States. But his name appears to be among some 13,500 on the larger “selectee” list, which sets off a high level of security screening.

At some point, someone named Michael Hicks made the Department of Homeland Security suspicious, and little Mikey is still paying the price. (His father, also named Michael Hicks, was stopped for the first time on the Bahamas trip.)

Both lists are maintained by the Terrorist Screening Center, which includes the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They are given to the Transportation Security Administration, which in turn sends them to the airlines.

A spokesman for the T.S.A., James Fotenos, said that as a rule, “there are no children on the no-fly or selectee lists,” but would not comment on Mikey’s situation specifically.

For every person on the lists, hundreds of others may get caught up simply because they share the same name; a quick scan through a national phone directory unearthed 1,600 Michael Hickses. Over the past three years, 81,793 frustrated travelers have formally asked that they be struck from the watch list through the Department of Homeland Security; more than 25,000 of their cases are still pending. Others have taken more drastic measures.

Mario Labbé, a frequent-flying Canadian record-company executive, started having problems at airports shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, with lengthy delays at checkpoints and mysterious questions about Japan. By 2005, he stopped flying to the United States from Canada, instead meeting American clients in France. Then a forced rerouting to Miami in 2008 led to six hours of questions.

“What’s the name of your mother? Your father? When were you last in Japan?” Mr. Labbé recalled being asked. “Always the same questions in different order. And sometimes, it’s quite aggressive, not funny at all.”

Fed up, in the summer of 2008, he changed his name to François Mario Labbé. The problem vanished.

Several Web sites, including the T.S.A.’s own blog, are rife with tales of misidentification and strategies for solving them. Some travelers purposely misspell their own names when buying tickets, apparently enough to fool the system. Even the late Senator Edward M. Kennedy once found himself on a list.

“We can’t just throw a bunch of names on these lists and call it security,” said Representative William J. Pascrell Jr., a New Jersey Democrat. “If we can’t get an 8-year-old off the list, the whole list becomes suspect.”

Mr. Fotenos, the T.S.A. spokesman, promised improvements in a few months, as the agency’s Secure Flight Program takes full effect. Under the new system, airlines will collect every passenger’s birth date and gender, along with their names. The T.S.A. will cross-check all that with the watch lists. Previously, the airlines cross-checked the lists themselves, using only the names.

Certainly, Mikey’s date of birth, less than a month before 9/11, should prevent him from being mistaken as a terrorist.

A third grader at a parochial school in Clifton, N.J., Mikey recites the drill like the world-weary traveler he is. Leave early for the airport, always with his passport. Try to get a boarding pass at the counter. This will send up a flag. The ticket agent, peering down at tiny bespectacled Mikey, will apologize or roll her eyes, and call for a supervisor. The supervisor, after a phone call — or, more likely, a series of phone calls — will ultimately finagle him onto the plane. But the Hickses are typically the last to select seats and the last to board, which means they sometimes can’t sit together.

Mrs. Hicks, a photojournalist who herself got Secret Service clearance to travel aboard Air Force II with then-Vice President Al Gore, anticipated additional chaos following the attempted underwear bombing. Before leaving for the Bahamas on Jan. 2, she reached out to Congressman Pascrell’s office, which then enlisted a T.S.A. agent to meet the family at the airport. Even this did not prevent Mikey from an extra pat-down.

On the way home last Friday, Mikey’s boarding pass showed four giant red S’s at the airport in Nassau. “Oh, random screening,” Mrs. Hicks said. Mikey asked his mother not to worry and said he would use his tae kwon do — he has a junior black belt — if needed. Mrs. Hicks said she wanted to take pictures of her son being frisked but was told it was against the rules.

Mikey, who would rather talk about BMX bikes and his athletic trophies than airport security, remains perplexed about the “list” and the hurdles he must clear. “Why do they think a kid is a terrorist?” Mikey asked his mother at one point during the interview.

Mrs. Hicks said the family was amused by the mistake at first. But that amusement quickly turned to annoyance and anger. It should not take seven years to correct the problem, Mrs. Hicks said. She applied for redress in December when she first heard about the Department of Homeland Security’s program.

“I understand the need for security,” she added. “But this is ridiculous. It’s quite clear that he is 8 years old, and while he may have terroristic tendencies at home, he does not have those on a plane.”

[blue]

El Al must be doing something right, and we are frisking 8 year olds Dude.

[RICHARD]

El Al must be doing something right, and we are frisking 8 year olds Dude.

Have you even hung out with an eight year-old for a while?

LOL, If the kid died on a plane brought down by terrorist the gevernment would still be to blame.


Tough it out kid, threaten the TSA screener with karate! That will get you on the plane faster.:rolleyes: