the bow.... [Archive]

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Trinityagain

11-16-2009, 01:48 PM

RICHARD

11-16-2009, 04:08 PM

Why is it that people can not just accept the bow as a sign of respect for another culture? Why does it HAVE to be a sign of showing weakness? Is it just me?

I didn't vote for Obama but for crying out loud people....

Amer. Presidents have never bowed or showed any kind of 'submissive' posture toward any other Prez, PM, King or ?????

We just don't do it.

The people who settled in N.A. came here to get away from under the "King's Thumb".

It's just a bonehead move that this president thinks will ingratiate him (mostly) to the leaders of other states.

---------------------------------

Walk into a room and forget the handshakes - start bowing to people or kissing their rings.

You'll see how they treat you later on.:confused:

I walked away from the comp and was doing something when I remembered this incident from when I was a kid.

My paternal GrandMa's house was on the way home from our elementary school.

We would stop to get a drink of water or use the b-room and check in on her on sometimes.

I once was passing by and she had a guest who I had never seen before. She stopped me and intro'ed me to him-I shook his hand and then she began to tell me to kiss his ring.

I was stupid and wasn't really sure what to do so I did it. She began to cackle (sorry granny) after I did and I went away with a real bad feeling about the whole incident.

I went home and told my mom about how I felt and she got pi$$ed. Seems like Granny didn't care for my mom and she would do stuff like that to 'get back at her', So, us kids sometimes got stuck in the middle.

Since that day? I don't 'submit' to anyone or bow, kiss rings or arse.

I will meet you with a firm handshake and a slight head tilt to acknowledge you.
Do not give me the dead fish or try to crush my hand either.

I'm not a politician so I can make my own rules up!
:)

Catty1

11-16-2009, 05:02 PM

Businesspeople from different countries learn to bow when they do business in Japan. Japanese business people also shake hands.

Trinityagain, I agree. What's with the "we don't do it so it is weak"? Also, bowing to some figurehead from another country is inviting them to steamroller the nation that bows?

A little macho paranoia, methinks.

JMO

Lady's Human

11-16-2009, 05:17 PM

It's the breach of 200+ years of diplomatic protocol.

Pres. Clinton caught hell for it when he did the same.

US Presidents have never bowed to anyone, along the same lines as the US Flag never being displayed lower than another flag.

The really irritating part is the amateurism displayed by the current administration when dealing with foreign leaders, from the bowing to giving the Queen of England a set of DVDs as a gift, the first lady putting her arm around Queen Elizabeth, bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, etc.. Were this an isolated incident, it would probably be overlooked, but it is far from a one time event.

sasvermont

11-16-2009, 05:23 PM

I see no problem with the bow. Times change. Much ado about nothing.:rolleyes:

Lady's Human

11-16-2009, 05:28 PM

To quote a Japanese poster from another forum, the only people the bow plays well with in Japan are the ultra-right nationalists in that country.

You know, the same people who gave us a little spot of trouble about 65 years ago?

aTailOf2Kitties

11-16-2009, 05:34 PM

I take the "when in Rome...." approach. If you are in another country you should abide by their social protocol when it comes to dignified greeting. I wouldn't see it as a sign of weakness, but rather one of willingness to cooperate.

Now if it happened here I could see it as being a big deal, but jeez....

and for the record, I didn't vote for Obama either but I think all of this whiny nit-picking over every little thing he does "wrong" is just childish. Granted it's happened to some extent with every president we've had recently.

Karen

11-16-2009, 05:45 PM

Methinks whoever is in charge of protocol ought to be fired, as someone at the White House should know enough history and protocol to advise against these things. He was schooled enough to say "Hello" correctly in the local dialect for Shanghai, shouldn't whosever job that was also have advised him correctly on protocol for bowing or not bowing?

happylabs

11-16-2009, 05:51 PM

I'm so short I don't have to bow to anybody. :D

RICHARD

11-16-2009, 05:54 PM

I'm so short I don't have to bow to anybody. :D

I'm so tall, I have "Look Down" on people.:eek::confused::o

Lady's Human

11-16-2009, 05:55 PM

Having witnessed the occasional ludicrous extremes to which diplomatic protocol officers go to ensure no faux pas, yeah, whoever it is should be fired.....should have been fired after the DVD set.

My mistake, the DVD set was to the PM, not the Queen. The gift from the PM to the POTUS? A Pen holder made from the oak timber of HMS Gannett a Royal Navy vessel whose last missions were anti-slaving patrols off Africa. The gift to the Queen was an Ipod with stock footage from her 2007 visit to the US. How special.

Alysser

11-16-2009, 05:56 PM

I'm so short I don't have to bow to anybody. :D

LOL can I join that club? :D

In all seriousness, I completely agree with Tailof2kitties on this one. Brillant way of putting it.

lizbud

11-16-2009, 06:13 PM

RICHARD

11-16-2009, 06:17 PM

The gift from the PM to the POTUS? A Pen holder made from the oak timber of HMS Gannett a Royal Navy vessel whose last missions were anti-slaving patrols off Africa. The gift to the Queen was an Ipod with stock footage from her 2007 visit to the US. How special.

I think the Monty Python boxed set for the Queen would have been more appropriate.

"Hey! I have to get a present for XXXXXXX! Michelle, tell the driver to pull over at the next CVS he sees!"

Remember when George Bush couldn't leave the stage, and some of the all time boners he pulled?

Those were minor league compared to BO's 'change'. Oh, he's a real maverick/trendsetter all right.

If we were slighted or been part of some kind of social eff up at an event
we'd be ticked or stunned.

Give him a break, He's not socially sophisticated like some of us.

Ipod? :rolleyes:

-------------

http://rense.com/general76/hdat.htm

Oh, we had a time when GWB was in office! I guess the becoming the POTUS makes you kinda dumb?

Pinot's Mom

11-16-2009, 07:19 PM

I know customarily the President does not show any type of submissive pose in other countries - HOWEVER - we are not in the same position we used to be. We need to be a little more conciliatory in order to reestablish some sort of diplomatic and respectful relationship that has been absolutely destroyed. We must give respect to regain respect. I don't think a bow will hurt anyone's pride when in a country where it's customary.

IMHO

Lady's Human

11-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Given that neither PM Putin nor PM Hu bowed to the Emperor, there's no reason for Pres. Obama to do so, and a show of subservience which was completely uncalled for.

kitten645

11-16-2009, 09:08 PM

"A little macho paranoia, methinks"

I completely agree. :rolleyes:
Claudia

Grace

11-16-2009, 09:21 PM

I agree with you.:) Besides, it's no worse that Bush & An Arabian King
holding hands while on a walk together. (It's customary in that culture.)

Holding hands - that's not all they did . . . . .
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/codename_009/BushKissingSaudiPrince.jpg

aTailOf2Kitties

11-16-2009, 09:55 PM

haha nice photochop^^

Grace

11-16-2009, 10:12 PM

It was real -

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8DgDi8xML5g/SejuLSihL6I/AAAAAAAAAMM/j_yQNrMwJHw/s320/George_W_Bush_Prince_Abdullah_kiss_hold_hands.jpg

From FoxNews, January 2008 -
After dinner in the King's Palace, Bush and Abdullah walked through a large central atrium and picked up cups of Arabic coffee to take into their meetings. Sitting side by side in chairs, Abdullah presented Bush with a gold necklace adorned with a large medallion — the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit, the country's highest honor, named after the founder of the modern Saudi state.

The award was placed around Bush's neck and the two exchanged the region's traditional double kiss. "I am honored," Bush said.

RICHARD

11-16-2009, 10:37 PM

LOL

Watching BO bow to the other politicos is like watching your hubby or SO taking a little too long hugging the really effing hot redhead at the annual Christmas party.

Nothing wrong with that, they see each other at work every day. Plus it's only a hug. The rest can wait for the Xerox room on Monday!

It's just change and a little protocol adjustment.

Medusa

11-17-2009, 06:54 AM

I've mentioned earlier on PT that when I was a child, we were taught as girls to curtsy and the boys were taught to bow and we did it before our elders and those in positions of respect, such as teachers (we did it every morning before class started) and clergy. The bow was more of a shoulder tip and not completely from the waist which is subservient. Cultural customs should be taken into consideration but a complete bow from the waist, IMHO, should never be done by a head of state. A shoulder tip should suffice. Whether or not that is the intention, it shows subservience and we do not need to send that message now or ever. To be subservient indicates your inferiority, not as a human being, of course, but in your position whether in social standing or political standing. Even if it was a friendly gesture, "familiarity breeds contempt".

RICHARD

11-17-2009, 09:59 AM

Even if it was a friendly gesture, "familiarity breeds contempt".

Thank you, some one pointed that out to me yesterday. I can understand his wanting to put the U.S. on 'even footing' to some of the countries that we must deal with, but the cartoonish exaggeration of his greetings probably defeats any message of equality that he wants to show.

-----------------------

P.S. what do people do in the Xerox room anyway?:confused:

aTailOf2Kitties

11-17-2009, 12:48 PM

RICHARD

11-17-2009, 12:54 PM

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/codename_009/BushKissingSaudiPrince.jpg
look at W's "magical" left lapel. It's in a perfectly straight vertical line and throws off enough psychic energy it caused the windshield wipers on the car in the background to distort. ;)

I'm not saying it didn't happen just that particular photo looks doctored.

Well, Tell me how many of you have held hands or smooched after someone buys you a dinner and jewelry? No breach of protocol there.......

Of course, there was no open mouth kissing there, so I think Barbara may still approve?:eek::o:)

Asiel

11-17-2009, 03:09 PM

Guess we were brought up differently but we learned to bow and curtsy (for the girls) when I was growing up. Not a big ado for me, it just showed respect for our elders or if we met someone higher up in the social class. If I was to meet the queen I'm sure I would be expected to curtsy and I would. Different cultures different ways, I don't make too much of that.

Cataholic

11-18-2009, 10:32 AM

In today's world of pandemic threats...a bow makes much more sense than shaking hands or kissing!

smokey the elder

11-18-2009, 01:19 PM

I never thought of that angle! Whatever the protocol should be, the folks coaching the President should do their jobs!

Catherinedana

11-18-2009, 02:21 PM

I think the Monty Python boxed set for the Queen would have been more appropriate.

The rest of this thread PALES in comparison to this remark. I squawked out loud in delight while sitting at my desk!! Richard, I think I love you! :love:

Cathy

RICHARD

11-18-2009, 04:00 PM

The rest of this thread PALES in comparison to this remark. I squawked out loud in delight while sitting at my desk!! Richard, I think I love you! :love:

Cathy

lol,

Go get a Xerox Room?:eek:;)

-------------------------------

Well, doncha think the Queen already has vacation videos?:confused::D

lizbud

11-18-2009, 05:42 PM

Holding hands - that's not all they did . . . . .
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n158/codename_009/BushKissingSaudiPrince.jpg

Wow, and Bush is a married man too.:D:D

RICHARD

11-18-2009, 07:02 PM

I squawked out loud in delight while sitting at my desk!! Richard, I think I love you! :love:

Cathy

If you are serious?

We can Summer in El Lay and winter in the FLA.

Check "YES" is you mean it.
And "NO" if you want police protection.

Catherinedana

11-19-2009, 07:25 AM

Check "YES" is you mean it.
And "NO" if you want police protection.

I'm already married but I have the most earnest, innocent, platonic kind of love for you that can be imagined. :p

You're a hoot and I can't wait to see what you say next. :D